Mandie Johnson interview recording, 1995 August 03
Loading the media player...
Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Doris Dixon | Stuff that they had to go through. | 0:18 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, my mother and father? | 0:20 |
Doris Dixon | Yeah. | 0:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They had to work. | 0:22 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 0:23 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Get up about sun-up, about six o'clock, and go to the field. Then they done cooked breakfast. They'd go to the field and had bell to rang then, at that time, rang you in and rang you out. Yeah. And they worked till 6:00 at night, before they come in. | 0:25 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 0:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Then come in, had to feed hogs and milk cows, and feed the horses, and took supper. | 0:47 |
Doris Dixon | Now, what was your birthday, Miss Johnson? | 1:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | My birthday? | 1:00 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 1:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | 1913, the 30th of August. My birthday is next month. I'll be 81 years old. | 1:04 |
Doris Dixon | Oh, yeah. | 1:04 |
Speaker 3 | This month is August [indistinct 00:01:12]. | 1:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Hmm? | 1:04 |
Speaker 3 | This is August. Today is August 4th. | 1:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I know it. I said next month. I was born in September. | 1:04 |
Speaker 3 | Oh. | 1:04 |
Doris Dixon | So you said September 30th. | 1:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure is. | 1:04 |
Doris Dixon | September 30th, 1913. | 1:26 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, sir. | 1:27 |
Doris Dixon | And where were you born? | 1:28 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | In Holmes County. | 1:28 |
Doris Dixon | In Cruger? | 1:28 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Cruger. | 1:28 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. What are your early memories of growing up in—Did you grow up in Cruger? | 1:38 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I grew up in school? | 1:40 |
Doris Dixon | Did you grow up in Cruger? Were you a child in Cruger? A young— | 1:45 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, I was grown in Cruger. | 2:21 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. Uh-huh. | 2:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | On Mrs Barnes Archer's Plantation. Know where that at? | 2:21 |
Doris Dixon | No, ma'am. What's the name again? The plantation was called, Mrs. Who? | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | What was the name of the plantation you said? | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Barnes Archer. | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | A.B. Archer. | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | A.B. Archie? | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | At Cruger. | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They know it. | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. And your parents were sharecroppers? | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | Did your parents sharecrop? | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. They worked in the crops 30-some years, 32 years there. | 2:22 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 2:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They moved from Lexington, that's where I was born, you know. | 2:28 |
Doris Dixon | You were born in where? In Lexington? | 2:33 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I said they moved from Lexington to Cruger. | 2:35 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 2:39 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And that's the time I was born. 1913. The 30th of September. | 2:39 |
Doris Dixon | 30th of September. Ma'am, what types of things did you like to do when you were a little girl? | 2:50 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 2:52 |
Doris Dixon | What kinds of things did you like to do? What kinds of things did you like to do for fun? How did you have fun when you were a little girl? | 2:52 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, I washed and ironed and cleaned up. | 2:57 |
Doris Dixon | And that was fun? | 3:03 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, that was fun to me, because we had to do that. | 3:05 |
Doris Dixon | Right. Did you play games? Ring games? | 3:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I didn't ever play no games. Sure didn't. | 3:16 |
Doris Dixon | Never played any games. | 3:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 3:19 |
Doris Dixon | You never played any games? | 3:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, ma'am, never played no games. | 3:22 |
Doris Dixon | Why not? | 3:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I just didn't like them. | 3:22 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 3:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. | 3:22 |
Doris Dixon | You liked to wash? | 3:29 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Washed, ironed, and cook and clean up. | 3:30 |
Doris Dixon | You did that to help your mother? | 3:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 3:30 |
Doris Dixon | You did that to help your mother? | 3:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, my grandmother raised me. | 3:39 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Can you tell me— | 3:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And I done that to help her out. I done it from about 12 years old. I wasn't 12, I was 10 years old. Till I got 21. I married out. | 3:43 |
Doris Dixon | You married at 21? | 3:58 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I married when I was 21 years old, the 24th of December, 1938. Mm-hmm. | 4:00 |
Doris Dixon | You married in 1938? | 4:02 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, I was 21 years old. | 4:02 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Miss Johnson, tell me about your grandmother, please. Could you tell me about your grandmother? | 4:23 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, how she tried to raise me? | 4:34 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 4:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, she tried to raise us. She didn't allow us to steal. Didn't allow us to lie. We got to tell the truth. When she asked us to do something, we had to do that. We couldn't talk back then like us do now. Uh-huh. We had to do what they asked us to do. And I never did see my grandmother drink nothing but Coca-Cola and coffee. She was a Christian. | 5:03 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 5:08 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Uh-huh. | 5:08 |
Doris Dixon | What church did she belong to? | 5:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | St. Peter Rock Church in Cruger, that's where she belonged. | 5:17 |
Doris Dixon | Is that the church you went to? | 5:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | In Cruger? | 5:21 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 5:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Then she went to Spring Valley Church, that's on this Archie Plantation. That's where I was converted at. | 5:24 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 5:26 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Because she was a member of St. Peter Rock Church about 30 some years. | 5:26 |
Doris Dixon | And then she went to Spring Valley? | 5:26 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 5:49 |
Doris Dixon | Then she went to Spring Valley? | 5:50 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, sir. That's the church I belong to. But she would visit both of them. Sure would. All them what she could visit. | 5:52 |
Doris Dixon | What did your grandmother look like? | 6:02 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | My grandmother looked like? | 6:05 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. What did she look like? Can you describe her to me? | 6:06 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 6:12 |
Doris Dixon | I said, can you describe her to me? Can you tell me what she looked like? | 6:12 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | She looked all right, my grandmother. | 6:15 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 6:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | She was 76 when she died. | 6:17 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Was she— | 6:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That was in 1940, the 20th of October. That's the time she died. | 6:25 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 6:28 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | She was 76 years old then. My granddaddy, he was 104. | 6:35 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 6:36 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He died the 19th day of September, 1945. | 6:36 |
Doris Dixon | And he was 104? | 6:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 6:44 |
Doris Dixon | And he was 104? | 6:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, he was 104 when he died. | 6:44 |
Doris Dixon | What were your chores when you were a little girl? What did you have to do around the plantation? | 7:03 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Plantation? | 7:09 |
Doris Dixon | Yeah. | 7:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | When I was little? | 7:10 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. Yeah. | 7:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, see, I was too—When I was little, I was too young to work then. | 7:13 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 7:19 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But 11 and 12 years old, I was cleaning cotton and hauling, chopping cotton in. Plowing. Pulling cotton. Pulling corn, loading cotton. Loading bales of cotton. | 7:19 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 7:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm. | 7:41 |
Doris Dixon | That was hard work, wasn't it? | 7:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 7:45 |
Doris Dixon | Was that hard work? | 7:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I did hard work ever since I been big enough to do it. Till I got blind, and that's back in '76. | 7:49 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 7:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. I losed my sight, then I couldn't do like I used to. But after I got blind, I would wash and iron and mop, do all that, cook, just like I always did do. Take my baths, comb my hair, wash my hair, put on my clothes, put off my clothes, change clothes, put on my clothes to go to church like I always did do. Hmm? | 7:57 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. What have been the different jobs you've had? Tell me about your different jobs. | 8:37 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Jobs I had? | 8:40 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 8:40 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | The biggest jobs I had was when I working with cooking. They would want me to cook. Of course, I was a good cook. | 8:44 |
Doris Dixon | Was this on the plantation? | 8:54 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Keep the house. Ma'am? | 8:55 |
Doris Dixon | Go ahead, I'm listening. I'm sorry. | 8:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Keep the house along and wash and iron. | 8:57 |
Doris Dixon | You were a housekeeper? | 9:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. | 9:06 |
Doris Dixon | How many years? | 9:07 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I can't tell you that. I worked a long time for different people, White people. | 9:09 |
Doris Dixon | Maybe 50, 60 years in all? | 9:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. | 9:21 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 9:25 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | All down that side I worked for the White people all in Cruger, all up here across this river here. | 9:26 |
Doris Dixon | Across the Yazoo River? | 9:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, the river. | 9:34 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 9:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | In Greenwood, I worked for White people over there. Went on the other side too. Different White people, you know. Everyone I worked for, they wanted me to cook. See, I was a good cook, you see. | 9:37 |
Doris Dixon | How much did you get paid? | 9:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 10:00 |
Doris Dixon | How much would you get paid? Say, the first job you had, how much did you get paid? | 10:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, I wasn't getting much then. | 10:04 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 10:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | About $20-some a week, like that. It wasn't much paying then, when I was working, like it is now. Uh-uh. You could live on it if that was all you had to depend on, you see. They wasn't paying that much. Sometimes $17 a week. You know that wasn't nothing. | 10:12 |
Doris Dixon | You could hardly live out of it? | 10:21 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Couldn't hardly live at it. | 10:23 |
Doris Dixon | How did you used to make it? | 10:46 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, you see, when I was in the country like that, I raised my stuff, you see? | 10:48 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 10:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | For to eat. Biggest I had to buy was sugar and coffee and like that. I didn't have to buy no meat and lard and meal and stuff like that. I was raising peas and butter beans and okra, and all that. I raised that. Sweet potatoes, Irish potatoes, popcorn. Mm-hmm. I raised all that. Greens, Irish potatoes. See, I didn't have to—Never buy nothing like that when I was in the country. | 10:52 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 11:24 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Just had to buy some flour and sugar and rice and coffee, salt and soda, baking powder. I raised my hogs. I used to kill as much as eight hogs through winter. I'd get two fifty pound cans of lard and two 25 pound cans of lard. That's enough lard to last me all the year. See? | 11:28 |
Doris Dixon | So you bought coffee and lard? | 11:53 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. And sugar and rice like that. See, I couldn't raise that. But I raised the other stuff. Hmm, sure did. | 11:53 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. But you can make that last a long time? | 12:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ooh, yes, ma'am, because see, when it got dry like that, that's when I [indistinct 00:12:23] gathered it up, you see? I gathered it up for the winter, like dry peas, peanuts, popcorn. See, I gather up all that, and sweet potatoes. Had that for when wintertime come. And in my days, they planted sorghum molasses, you know? | 12:18 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 12:42 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And they would run—squeeze that juice out the cane and cook the molasses off. Wouldn't need to buy no molasses. I done all right when I was a child, because my grandmother and granddaddy raised me. | 12:46 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 13:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I ain't never went through with no hard times. My mother died when I was 12. My daddy died when I was eight. So I didn't never went through with no hard times. So my granddaddy took care of us. Mm-hmm. He ran it. Bought mules or sold his own cotton for one [indistinct 00:13:43]. | 13:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure did. I ain't never went through no tough times in my little days, young days. | 13:43 |
Doris Dixon | How about when you got older? Did you have tough times then? | 13:52 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, I had a pretty tough time then, because after I married I owned eight head of children, two living and four dead. So I had a kind of tough time then. So, see, I had to work. I didn't have nobody to help me, but for my eight head of children. My husband, he wasn't helping. So I've seen a harder time since I—but after I quit him, I seen the good time. Hey. Yeah, I didn't suffer nothing. I worked all the time because my children old enough to help me, you know, my boys? | 13:59 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 14:36 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I had six boys and two girls. So they helped me. | 14:38 |
Doris Dixon | Were you still farming then? | 14:39 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 14:47 |
Doris Dixon | Were you still farming at this time? | 14:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | At that time? | 14:51 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 14:52 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. | 14:52 |
Doris Dixon | And you quit your husband? | 14:55 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, I had to quit him. | 14:57 |
Doris Dixon | What happened? | 14:58 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He would sit up all night long and cuss and go—See? And I was working. He wasn't working. He'd first start going [indistinct 00:15:14], so he wasn't working, you know? | 15:02 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. Uh-huh. | 15:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I was the one working. And he'd just go across there, in town there, go to the whiskey place or that and drink whiskey and get drunk, sit up and cuss all night. I couldn't rest. | 15:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's when my nerves was—you know, got bad. [indistinct 00:15:39]. You can't put up with that when you've got to work, see? | 15:34 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 15:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | See, I had to work. Get up there to my house and cook breakfast, clean up there, then go to the White folk house and cook, clean up there. Do what they had, [indistinct 00:16:01]. One time I had to cook three meals at they house, breakfast, dinner, and supper. Then come home and cook supper. See, that was hard on me. | 15:47 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 16:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. But I made it. | 16:17 |
Doris Dixon | You say they were hard on you? | 16:18 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, that was kind of tough. Then had to stay woke all night with him, drunk. I just got tired of that. I just walked on out. Went to my brother's. Stayed with him awhile—the police—I left all the children with him. | 16:22 |
Doris Dixon | With your brother? | 16:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, with my husband. And the police (laughs), come got me and told me to find me a house and take my children, so I did. | 16:49 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I moved out on a Saturday. He had done quit us. He quit first. Left the children naked in the bath, [indistinct 00:17:13] was down inside. He's the one holding out. See, I didn't clear nothing. I come out $235 behind, $75. Left out 22 bales, left one in the field. All of them went over 500. They come out just this much behind. | 17:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I was staying with Miss Marie then. [indistinct 00:17:52] come up to [indistinct 00:17:55]. I went on up there, and he told me what I had to come out behind. I could borrow some money. I told him no. I wasn't going to borrow none. Only thing to lose on inside. | 17:48 |
Doris Dixon | You were in [indistinct 00:18:01] place when you quit your husband? | 18:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I wasn't with him, he was gone. | 18:02 |
Doris Dixon | Oh, okay, your husband was gone by this time. | 18:02 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, he was gone. Wasn't nobody at home but me and my eight children. | 18:02 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. So you were all trying to make the crop by yourself. | 18:20 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I moved aside, and I wasn't making no crops then. | 18:25 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Okay. | 18:26 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But I was working by the day. | 18:27 |
Doris Dixon | So you worked the White peoples houses by the day. | 18:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, chopping cotton and picking cotton by the day. I cooked for Miss Branch a while, till cotton got up there, and I went to the field with my children. Uh-huh. | 18:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I moved from down there in '60. I moved, left the Branches for [indistinct 00:19:24] then. I was having them pick cotton. Me and my children. But he dead now. | 18:48 |
Doris Dixon | What's his name? | 19:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | [indistinct 00:19:43] Branch. | 19:43 |
Doris Dixon | And you left his place in '60? | 19:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 19:43 |
Doris Dixon | You left his place in '60, you said? | 19:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. | 19:43 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 19:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | In '60. | 19:43 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 19:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. I moved here in town, down there on Avenue N in Greenwood, 46. And I left for [indistinct 00:19:49] plantation then. | 19:48 |
Doris Dixon | So let me go back over this so I see if I got it straight. Okay? | 19:48 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Okay. | 19:48 |
Doris Dixon | You started out in Cruger, right? | 19:48 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure was. | 19:48 |
Doris Dixon | And how long were you in Cruger? | 19:48 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | For years till I— | 19:48 |
Doris Dixon | You married your husband in Cruger? | 19:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. My granddaddy had done moved. | 19:56 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 19:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I was born on Mrs. Archer, in 1913. | 19:56 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 19:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And I left there when I was 13 years old. My granddaddy moved from there. | 19:58 |
Doris Dixon | And where did you go then? | 20:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He moved down on Baldwin Plantation. | 20:06 |
Doris Dixon | On the Baldwin Plantation? | 20:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes. Off the [indistinct 00:20:16]. He was on his plantation. | 20:15 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. And did you meet your husband there? | 20:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. He moved. My granddaddy and grandmother moved from there down to Tchula, on the [indistinct 00:20:25] Plantation, [indistinct 00:20:25] Plantation. And that's where I married at. | 20:20 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Did you and your husband stay there or did you move somewhere else? | 20:24 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | We moved back. We come back to Cruger. | 20:38 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. And after you got married you returned to Cruger. | 20:39 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, we moved back to Cruger. | 20:44 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. And then did you and your husband stay there, or you quit your husband while you were in Cruger? | 20:49 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. I stayed in Cruger when I was out there from Sidon. My husband quit me first. | 20:51 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Your husband quit you. You moved to Sidon. | 21:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure did. | 21:02 |
Doris Dixon | And then you quit him. He followed you to Sidon? | 21:06 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He followed me for awhile, till he thought [indistinct 00:21:13]. And then he left us. | 21:13 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. Okay. | 21:13 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. | 21:20 |
Doris Dixon | So you would have to get up—You probably had to get up before 6:00 to help get your family together, to cook for them and to get them together before you went off to cook for other people? | 21:26 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. I had to cook for them first. | 21:38 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 21:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure did. Go home and cook for them. Leave the White folks' kitchen and come home and cook for them. Mm-hmm. | 21:45 |
Doris Dixon | Do you sew for your family? | 21:46 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 21:46 |
Doris Dixon | Did you sew for your children? How did your children learn to sew? | 21:46 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, I sewed for them. Yeah. I used to sew. After I married, my grandmother gave me a machine and I used to sew for them. I used to make little skirts and little overalls for my boys, and dresses for the girls, slips. Mm-hmm. I used to buy cloth and cut out that cloth and make stuff on the machine. I used to quilt on the machine. Piece of quilt. | 22:12 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 22:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure did. On the machine. Mm-hmm. | 22:32 |
Doris Dixon | Where did you get your cloth from? | 22:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Cloth? | 22:32 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. Where did you get it from? | 22:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Different places. From up there in Greenwood and down there at Cruger. The cloth was in then, you could buy pretty good cloth then. But there's none there you can find the cloth what was made then, in them times. You can't find a plum out cotton slip. You may find the top, but the bottom of it cotton and the top of it is rayon. That's the way they're making cloth now. | 22:52 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 23:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You can't get cloth. | 23:17 |
Doris Dixon | You can't get 100% cotton anymore? | 23:23 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. Not any pure cotton. There ain't much cotton made, you know? | 23:24 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 23:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They done quit making cotton. There's some places you could afford it, some places you can't. | 23:35 |
Doris Dixon | So, Ms. Johnson, you said you used to have to cook and sew for your children. What else did you do for your family? How else did you help—How else did you all survive? | 23:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 23:45 |
Doris Dixon | How else did you survive? | 23:45 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Survive how? | 23:45 |
Doris Dixon | I mean, how did you make it? Tell me about how you raised your food. | 23:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I raised my food for my children. | 24:00 |
Doris Dixon | Sewed for your children. | 24:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sewed. | 24:00 |
Doris Dixon | Made the quilts, pieced them together. | 24:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Pieced them and then I quilt them. Sure did. On my grandmother's machine what she gave me. Then I had to milk cows for them. I didn't ever have to buy no milk. | 24:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Used to pick cotton awhile. And in my field, they didn't go out by the day, you know, picking cotton. | 24:24 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 25:59 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | By the 100. I'd buy my children some clothes, [indistinct 00:24:40] stockings and things. Sure did. I asked my husband to buy the— | 25:59 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 26:09 |
Doris Dixon | You were telling me about having [indistinct 00:25:02]. | 26:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | [indistinct 00:25:04] | 26:09 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. You were telling me about how that was. | 26:13 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. | 26:14 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 26:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Picking cotton, but what they give you was $3.55 out of [indistinct 00:26:15]. That wasn't all enough to feed us. | 26:14 |
Doris Dixon | How much did they pay? | 26:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | $3.55 out of a bale of hay. That was a big year for cotton. That was all we would get [indistinct 00:26:15]. Mm-hmm. | 26:14 |
Doris Dixon | [indistinct 00:26:15] in those days? | 26:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 26:14 |
Doris Dixon | Did you share a lot in those days [indistinct 00:26:15] what you share now? | 26:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, we shared [indistinct 00:26:15], but we made it. That's right. It was what we raised, doing that. Like [indistinct 00:26:15]. We raised all that. [indistinct 00:26:15] If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't have made it. Sometimes you make 20-some bales of cotton and come out behind. Wouldn't clear nothing. All there was we could make was go back and borrow some more money for the next year. | 26:15 |
Doris Dixon | Where would you borrow the money? | 26:23 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Borrow the money from the man we did all the work for, because we're working. You had to borrow the money [indistinct 00:27:16] get the children some clothes and things. | 26:31 |
Doris Dixon | So he would give you some money and he would—How would you describe—He would take your half of the crop to make—[indistinct 00:27:16] | 27:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am, raising our crop. They would take it out. Yeah, they'll take it out. They wouldn't just give it to you. Uh-uh. We'd borrow the money for the next year's crop, if you're going to be there. If you weren't going to be there, you had to go to another one and borrow money with them for [indistinct 00:27:19]. | 27:16 |
Doris Dixon | Did people move around a lot [indistinct 00:27:23]? | 27:18 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, [indistinct 00:27:24]. Sometimes [indistinct 00:27:30]. Yes, ma'am. Changed to another. Sure would. | 27:18 |
Doris Dixon | Can you tell me how that would work? [indistinct 00:27:51] You were on one plantation and the owner wasn't treating you right, what would you do to get to another plantation? How did that go? | 27:50 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You would just tell them you got to move. | 27:53 |
Doris Dixon | And they wouldn't try to stop you? | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They'd try to stop, but he couldn't stop you, because there wasn't [indistinct 00:28:08] enough. What's he going to keep you there for? [indistinct 00:28:12] found somewhere else. Well, you're working somewhere. That way. That way. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | How would he try to stop you? | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He'd just tell you, you stay there, he would lend you so much money. Hate to see you move, because you was a good worker, but that wasn't helping you none. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Uh-uh. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | So you got up and left. | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, yeah. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | Did you have to sneak away? | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | You went out in daylight. | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | We sure did. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Got all your stuff—[indistinct 00:29:35] | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I didn't put up then, I just went away. I got all my furniture and stuff. Mm-hmm. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | How did [indistinct 00:29:35]? | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I can't tell you that, because my husband just moved. He just moved. I couldn't tell you that. I went to [indistinct 00:29:35]. | 29:34 |
Doris Dixon | And you say you never slipped away? You had- | 29:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I ain't never slipped away from no plantation, mm-mm. They would come to me and I'd tell them, "I'm going to move." And they knowed the reason I got moved, because I wasn't clearing nothing. See? Done all that work, that year's work, and I wasn't getting that much. Uh-uh. That's right. | 29:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | If you wasn't raising your stuff, you wouldn't have food. | 29:47 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 29:58 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | From one bale of cotton to the other, if you wasn't raising. | 29:58 |
Doris Dixon | If you didn't raise food, you'd starve. | 30:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. You would starve. Everybody'd starve if you wasn't raising. | 30:06 |
Doris Dixon | Were there some people who were starving? | 30:06 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Nu-uh. They were [indistinct 00:30:06] out, because they used to bring sacks and things to me to gather my peas and stuff. | 30:06 |
Doris Dixon | What did you tell- | 30:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They tried to make them. I'd give it to them. Yeah. | 30:09 |
Doris Dixon | You shared your peas? | 30:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, I shared with them. | 30:09 |
Doris Dixon | What else did you share? | 30:09 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Huh? | 30:09 |
Doris Dixon | You said you shared your peas. What else did you share with- | 30:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Greens. | 30:24 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 30:24 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sweet potatoes, eye potatoes, milk, butter, eggs, chicken. | 30:24 |
Doris Dixon | Shared everything, didn't you? | 30:24 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, yeah. I used to share with folks. I didn't raise stuff all for myself. | 30:36 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 30:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | The Bible said how to live [indistinct 00:30:45]. Didn't he? | 30:44 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 30:44 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Okay. | 30:47 |
Doris Dixon | So you shared everything. | 30:48 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. | 30:49 |
Doris Dixon | Were there some people who didn't want to share? | 30:52 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, there were some who wouldn't do that. Some of them up there in town won't do that now. | 30:55 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 31:01 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But I always did do that, till my grandmother learnt me how to buy with people what didn't have nothing. Just don't give nobody what got some. Give somebody what ain't got none. | 31:04 |
Doris Dixon | Now, why would some people not have anything? Because they didn't raise their own crops? | 31:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They didn't stop to raise it, like I did. That's what did. They'd be up there in Greenwood juking when I'd be out there working my [indistinct 00:31:31]. | 31:27 |
Doris Dixon | And then they'd come back to ask you for something? | 31:31 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm, when it's late, you see, they'll come back and ask me for something. | 31:36 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 31:36 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | I'd give it to them. Because they had little children, you know? Just like I did. Didn't have to buy it. | 31:36 |
Doris Dixon | Did you ever go to Greenwood to the juke joints? | 31:36 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 31:36 |
Doris Dixon | You said they were in Greenwood juking. Did you ever go juking in Greenwood? | 31:53 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I didn't never go up there. I'll be wanting my truck back. I would tell them, "How come y'all didn't stay at home and raise your stuff like Amanda raise hers? Y'all could've stayed at home too." But you see some people don't take the interest of they self. You see, they would rather be out having fun than be at home raising them somethings to eat. That's what I did. I raised my something to eat. Sure did. Raised my hogs. | 31:56 |
Doris Dixon | You had hogs? | 32:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Woo! You heard me say I killed eight head of hogs in one winter. | 32:51 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Wow. | 32:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And one day share 12 pounds, 10 [indistinct 00:32:52] like that big around. My grandmother used to ground up sausage [indistinct 00:32:56]. That [indistinct 00:32:57] be full of sausage. See, I killed a [indistinct 00:33:04] along with them hogs. And she would mix that meat and grind up them sausages. I did it too when I wasn't in a family way. | 32:51 |
Doris Dixon | When you weren't pregnant? | 33:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. See, they didn't allow me around the meat when I was like that. My grandmother would do it for me. Come up there and do it for me. | 33:15 |
Doris Dixon | So when you were in the family way you couldn't get around the meat? | 33:22 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 33:23 |
Doris Dixon | They wouldn't allow women in the family way around the food? | 33:27 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-mm. Because you'll spoil meat like that. Mm-mm. You would ruin all your meat. Some people [indistinct 00:33:36]. I don't know [indistinct 00:33:38] but they wouldn't allow me around. Mm-mm. | 33:31 |
Doris Dixon | Was giving childbirth in those days difficult? | 33:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 33:45 |
Doris Dixon | Did you have a difficult time delivering your babies? | 33:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, one time I did, with my middle girl. I had kind of a tough time with her. I had four tumors right down here. Right down here. So when I go to birth my baby, see, them tumors would hold them up, you know? | 33:52 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 34:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | So Dr. Mix and Dr. Sam operated on me and got them tumors. | 34:11 |
Doris Dixon | What year was that? | 34:12 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That was in '53. | 34:12 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 34:13 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. They got them in [indistinct 00:34:25]. | 34:15 |
Doris Dixon | Did you have that middle girl in the hospital? | 34:31 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I ain't never had none in the hospital. | 34:36 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 34:37 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, I had all mine at home. But after she was born, I had to go to the hospital. | 34:39 |
Doris Dixon | I see. So all your children were born at home? | 34:49 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. | 34:49 |
Doris Dixon | Did you have midwives in those days? | 34:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, midwives. One time I had to have doctor from Sidon, because they had done said I wasn't going to deliver now another one. | 34:57 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 35:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They got the White doctor from Sidon. But I made it all right. | 35:14 |
Doris Dixon | Yes, ma'am. | 35:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure did. | 35:14 |
Doris Dixon | So now, can we go back to the plantation days? Can you tell me some more about the plantation days? | 35:27 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | The plantation? | 35:33 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. About what it was like working on the plantation. | 35:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, we worked, but we didn't get nothing hardly for our work. Sure didn't care for working for nothing. But they get now, they get much a week as we got in a month. | 35:38 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 35:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's right. Because one of our laborers paying 57 a 100 for cotton, a 100. You pick 100, you wouldn't get but 50 cents. 35 cent a 100. You didn't get nothing for working no crop. Uh-uh. | 35:57 |
Doris Dixon | What about housekeeping? Did you get good money for housekeeping? | 36:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 36:43 |
Doris Dixon | How much money would you get for housekeeping? | 36:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | A week? I don't know, about $16 to $17 a week. | 36:43 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Oh, you did tell me that. | 36:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. Didn't get much pay for doing that. | 36:43 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 36:43 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You know they wasn't paying nothing in that time. | 36:44 |
Doris Dixon | Which job did you like best, picking cotton, working in the fields, or housework? | 36:52 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, you see, I got more working in the field picking cotton. | 36:57 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 37:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | So, see, like I picked 300 a day, two and a half a 100. That's four, five, six, seven. That'd be eight dollars I'd make a day, you see? Picking cotton. | 37:01 |
Doris Dixon | Where did people get together? Where were the gathering places? | 37:25 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 37:30 |
Doris Dixon | I said, where did people get together? Where were the gathering places on the plantation? | 37:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Gathering places? What you talking about? | 37:34 |
Doris Dixon | Where the people got together? Like say when people wanted to—just got together to talk or whatever, where did people come together as a group? | 37:38 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Come together? | 37:48 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 37:50 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | People didn't hardly come—They'd either go to visit one another, you know? | 37:53 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. There was a lot of visiting? | 37:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes. When they wasn't working in the field. They'd sit out, all people, and talk. | 37:58 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 38:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Some of them would quilt. Like my grandmother had four quilts to quilt. That lady had four. That lady had four. That lady had four. All of them would get together. Going to cut out all them quilts at night. [indistinct 00:38:26] clean up. They would stop and eat, you know. They'd be quilting there till 12, one o'clock at night. See, we'd be in the bed asleep. Sit up and make coffee and all that. We'll be asleep. | 38:07 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | People used to help people more than they do now. When people got sick, they'll go to their house and clean up this and clean up that. They had no wash. They had no mop. They had no cook, that's what they would do. They didn't have no helpers like they have got now, nurses or maids and things. Old people used to help one another. | 38:47 |
Doris Dixon | What did they do when people got sick? | 39:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, that's what they'd do when they got sick. | 39:15 |
Doris Dixon | What'd they do? | 39:18 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Wait on them. Cook, wash for them. Mop. Give them a bath. Wash their hair, comb their hair. All that is when they got sick. They didn't have no Aegis and nothing then to go out like they do now. The old people [indistinct 00:39:42]. Sure did. | 39:18 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | If they had children, they'd keep the children clean for them, or keep their hair combed. Put them on clothes, [indistinct 00:40:03], put them on clothes, clean clothes, they'd go to school. See. People don't do that right now. They don't stop like that. Oh, that's done gone by. | 39:41 |
Doris Dixon | Tell me about the home remedies people used to use, the herbs and things that people used to use when you got sick. | 39:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | The medicine? | 39:41 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 39:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. They used to go to get [indistinct 00:40:44] roots. They would wash it and string them, put them round your neck. Get parsley leaves, boil them [indistinct 00:41:00]. That's for fever. [indistinct 00:41:04] weed. [indistinct 00:41:07] weed. They'd get them and place them to you. Get [indistinct 00:41:15] make tea. Got hog hoof, make tea. That's for the flu. | 40:51 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 41:28 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | [indistinct 00:41:29] used to get them and boil to them ashes with a little [indistinct 00:41:34], get them ashes and get Vaseline and mix that up together, that's for the piles. | 41:28 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Get lemon, buy lemon, make you lemon tea. Put some Vick's salve over in there and mix it up there together and use it to [indistinct 00:42:00]. People wasn't more sick than they is now. Mm-mm. They would fix their [indistinct 00:42:10], you know? | 41:39 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 42:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And doctor [indistinct 00:42:17]. Wasn't much of people going to the doctor as there is now. Mm-mm. | 42:17 |
Doris Dixon | What about when women were on their monthly time, what did they give them for cramps and things? | 42:27 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Cramping? | 42:32 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 42:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They'd go out in the yard and get some yard mint and wash them leaves, place them in a glass of cane, boil your water and pour it in on them, and let them drink it. That'll stop the cramping. | 42:35 |
Doris Dixon | What about for insect bites and bee stings and such? | 42:57 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 43:02 |
Doris Dixon | Insect bites, bee stings and such. Did they have some kind of salve they would put on bites, like if you got a bite, like an insect bite or something. | 43:03 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | [indistinct 00:43:13] | 43:11 |
Doris Dixon | Hmm? | 43:11 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Talking about putting them on [indistinct 00:43:16] medicine? | 43:11 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. What would they put on your skin if you had a skin rash or something, irritation of your skin? | 43:11 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, they'd give you Vaseline and soap, and buy blue ointment, and blue seal Vaseline, mix it up together and grease you with it. Sometimes they'd give you sulfur to take. [indistinct 00:44:05] You'd paint your sulfur. Mm-hmm. | 43:30 |
Doris Dixon | You said there wasn't as much sickness in those days? | 44:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No. There wasn't as much sickness as there is now. Mm-mm. | 44:04 |
Doris Dixon | Was there any tuberculosis? | 44:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You know, old people knows what to give you for the taking. They'd rub you with different stuff. | 44:06 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 44:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | It wasn't like many doctors. There wasn't even a doctor just lie in bed, they would have to go out. They didn't have no car then, we had horses. They had their medicine in suitcases. Little [indistinct 00:44:23]. And that grip on that on the front of them, or on the saddle on the horse. | 44:10 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They used to go to church in buggies and wagons. They didn't have no cars. First car I knowed them to make was a T Model Ford. That's the first car they made. | 44:32 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. Did they have any cars on the plantation? | 44:48 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Car, yeah. After they come out, they had one on that plantation. Of course, I had one down there on [indistinct 00:45:00]. I went to Cruger and borrowed one from Mr. [indistinct 00:45:05]. I cleared pretty good that year, so I went and got me and my children a car. | 44:55 |
Doris Dixon | What kind did you get? | 45:13 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | It was '49 Ford. [indistinct 00:45:20] glass on each side, black. Uh-huh. | 45:15 |
Doris Dixon | Was it pretty? | 45:27 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Oh, yes, ma'am. And could get on the road too. | 45:28 |
Doris Dixon | Now, I've heard people tell me that sometimes you were driving down the highway, you couldn't pass certain White people. Is that true? | 45:30 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Couldn't pass them? | 45:40 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. If you were driving behind a White person, they were going too slow, you couldn't pass? I've heard some people tell me that. Did you ever have that experience? | 45:42 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, I didn't never go through with that. Only stopping I had with my car when they were searching for driving license. They wanted to know, did you have any driver license on you. They were checking then for that, you know. | 45:50 |
Doris Dixon | When was this? | 46:06 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 46:08 |
Doris Dixon | When did that happen when they were checking for diver's license? | 46:08 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | It was in '50, '53, and '54, and '55, and '60. They were checking for driving license. | 46:16 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | —they were checking for driving license. If you didn't have none, you know, they'll put a bill on you to pay. | 0:06 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. Uh-huh. | 0:17 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They'll do that now. They'll arrest you now for driving license. | 0:17 |
Doris Dixon | They will. | 0:19 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure will. You have a fine to pay. They'll walk up there, their ticket and stick it in your windshield. Put it [indistinct 00:00:34]. Hm? | 0:26 |
Doris Dixon | What I was trying to say ma'am is that sometimes— | 0:40 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, you know, in them days, on the buses— | 0:43 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 0:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You had to sit in the back, and the White people sit in the front. | 0:48 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 0:53 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But now you sit right on the seat with them. Since the Civil Rights and things. | 0:53 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 0:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. You don't have to sit on the back. You get to sit in the seat with them. | 1:03 |
Doris Dixon | Do you remember other things about the days of Jim Crow, about segregation? | 1:11 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They wouldn't let you sit at the table with them, in them days. Nobody but Mr Bob Donner, down at Cruger. Now, he had a cook, Miss May Lass, cooking for him. And when they fix his food on the table, and you Colored, and he would say, and you can come on and eat, too. Sure would. And he was one of the richest man in sight. In Cruger, at least. Bob Donner. Mm-hmm. | 1:15 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | He wasn't—didn't expect you, for the wait to eat, see. He would let you eat along with him. | 1:51 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 1:58 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Sure would. But he did. Yeah, in fact, you had to go to that back door, you know. | 2:00 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 2:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You couldn't go in the front. Go around to the back and go in. Now, some of them was like that, and some of them won't. See? | 2:15 |
Doris Dixon | What was the different between those who were like that, and those who weren't? | 2:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 2:37 |
Doris Dixon | I said, did you notice any difference—I mean, there was a difference between those who wouldn't make you go to the back doors, and those who would? | 2:38 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Well, they— | 2:44 |
Doris Dixon | Were some richer than others, who did that? | 2:45 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's what [indistinct 00:02:57], you know, and some were raised, you know. | 2:56 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 2:57 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And some of us Colored people, some of us was well raised and some of us ain't. See? They would train that child, to something. He got always—he may go a little piece, but he going to turn around and go back to where you raised him from. Hm. That's the way it is with these here old people. See, they were raised, I reckon, like that. Some of them just stand up and turn up their nose to you. Never want to see you. But still, they want you to work for them. | 2:57 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | See, that's the way [indistinct 00:03:36]. If you didn't work there, he doesn't want you to do nothing for him. See? That's right. Mm-hmm. | 3:34 |
Doris Dixon | Did your grandmother and grandfather raise you right? | 3:46 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yes, ma'am. | 3:52 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 3:53 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. | 3:53 |
Doris Dixon | What kinds of things did they tell you to do? So like, what did they tell you about right and wrong, and all that? So you said your grandmother didn't allow you to steal, or to lie. | 3:56 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, they didn't. Neither one, I was [indistinct 00:04:14]. | 4:05 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. Uh-huh. | 4:14 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. Well, I courted at home, on my porch. On my grandmother's porch. Didn't allow me to be out all time of night. Didn't allow me to drink whiskey, beer, nothing like that. Mm-hmm. | 4:15 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 4:35 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Didn't allow me to be out with boys, all time of night. (laughs) | 4:36 |
Doris Dixon | Were there a lot of fast girls around? | 4:41 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's right. They didn't allow me to do that. They always taught me what was right. | 4:43 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 4:50 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | And I tried to do it. Mm-hmm. A young girl like that, she can do right if she want. | 4:52 |
Doris Dixon | Mm-hmm. | 5:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | She can stand up on her principles if she want. If she don't, she ain't going do it. I don't care what kind of teaching you're going to teach. You got to first make it up in your mind to do right. Then you always be obedient to your path. And everybody else. | 5:01 |
Doris Dixon | What could a good young lady do and not do in those days? A good young lady, what did that mean? If you acted like a young lady. | 5:31 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | A good young lady? | 5:38 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 5:38 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | She ain't going to do anything [indistinct 00:05:39] do. | 5:38 |
Doris Dixon | Uh-huh. | 5:39 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's what you call a good-er. | 5:39 |
Doris Dixon | Like what kind of thing? | 5:42 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They ain't going bring no babies in they mother's house, that's a good-er. She got to stay there and do what her parents ask her to do. She ain't going to walk away and tell her mother, "I ain't going to do nothing." Now that's a good child. Mine, they won't talk back at their parents. There's a good child. They always mind their parents. Mind the elder folks, when they tell them what's right. Now, that's a good child. But when you be obedient like that, you being good. So you're doing anything you can do. That's how that [indistinct 00:06:45]. | 5:52 |
Doris Dixon | What would happen to young ladies who had babies before they were married? | 6:49 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | You said, what happened to them? Well, I don't know what happened. They kind of—betwixt and between. They pay attention to the boys, instead of their mothers. See, that's how that [indistinct 00:07:10]. And some of them tell them, "If you don't let me do that, I might get me somebody else." See? They won't help you, see. But see, they couldn't fool me like that. Not having no damn baby before I married. No, no. My children after me and my husband married. And all of them was by one name. That's my [indistinct 00:07:45]. | 6:53 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah, Black people, girls used to get like that. What make them do it so good, now? They ain't tied on them, as they used to be. When you used to get like that, you couldn't clash with a girl, it wasn't like that. No, they wouldn't let the girl clash with you. You had to be by yourself. Then if you were going to church, they would turn you out of church. You get like that, you couldn't go to school no more. They don't never stop going, now. You see, you couldn't do it. You couldn't clash with no other girls while like that. You couldn't [indistinct 00:08:25] be with them, now. | 7:51 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But see, now, you can't tell them nothing about anything like that. [indistinct 00:08:37] like that. | 8:25 |
Doris Dixon | So, you couldn't associate with girls— | 8:40 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's right. You couldn't associate with them. But now, you can do it, you see. | 8:47 |
Doris Dixon | Right, right. | 8:47 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Mm-hmm. You wouldn't even go to no school, then. | 9:03 |
Doris Dixon | Now, what kind of— | 9:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They'll expel you from school. | 9:04 |
Doris Dixon | No school, no church. | 9:04 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No church neither, they'd turn you out of church. They [indistinct 00:09:05] baby, and go back and [indistinct 00:09:05]. | 9:04 |
Doris Dixon | When- | 9:05 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | See, they don't have nothing like—huh? | 9:08 |
Doris Dixon | Now, after you had the baby, could you go back to school and back to church? | 9:11 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. | 9:12 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 9:12 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | But after, they—all the babies in them days, sometimes the boys would marry. | 9:18 |
Doris Dixon | Then what would happen? | 9:23 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | They would marry and take care of their child. | 9:28 |
Doris Dixon | They'd try to find [indistinct 00:09:34]. | 9:32 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Ma'am? | 9:32 |
Doris Dixon | You said sometimes the boys would marry them. | 9:34 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Yeah. | 9:36 |
Doris Dixon | So they would try to find another husband? | 9:37 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | No, sometimes they'd marry the same—the child's daddy. | 9:39 |
Doris Dixon | Okay. | 9:40 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | [indistinct 00:09:41] and add his name to you. Sometimes that man would want to marry, and they'd keep that baby. [indistinct 00:09:54] somebody else. See? Instead of doing what they want, they got the baby back. | 9:41 |
Doris Dixon | Right. | 9:58 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | That's right, now. | 10:00 |
Mandie Moore Johnson | Some of them, they made them marry. Get the preacher. Get a car. Pick up the boy, then the girl. That's how it would be, and they'd drive on to the courthouse. Make them marry. Then they come home, some of them would stay one night, some of them would stay another night. [indistinct 00:10:22], because see, they didn't want to marry. Them that would want to marry, they married. The same way. It's—see? But that time done passed, now. Mm-hmm. They ain't got [indistinct 00:10:48] nowhere, now. | 10:02 |
Item Info
The preservation of the Duke University Libraries Digital Collections and the Duke Digital Repository programs are supported in part by the Lowell and Eileen Aptman Digital Preservation Fund