James Russell, Sr. interview recording, 1994 August 04
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Nancy V. Russell | Yes. Okay. | 0:00 |
Felix Armfield | Today is July the 29th, 1994. My name is Felix Arnhill and I'm the interviewer, and I'm at the home of Mr. James Russell, as I'm about to interview Mr. Russell here at his home at 924 French Street in New Iberia, Louisiana. Mr. Russell, would you just state your name for the record? Just state your full name for the record. | 0:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | James Russell Senior. | 0:30 |
Felix Armfield | James Russell Senior. Mr. Russell, how long have you lived here in New Iberia? | 0:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | About eight months. | 0:37 |
Felix Armfield | About eight months? | 0:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Mm-hmm. | 0:46 |
Felix Armfield | Where did you live prior to coming to New Iberia? | 0:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Avery Island. | 0:49 |
Felix Armfield | You lived out on Avery Island. Now, that's interesting. Now, were you in fact born on Avery Island? | 0:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Born and raised on Avery Island. | 0:57 |
Felix Armfield | Now, where is Avery Island in location to New Iberia? | 1:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | About eight miles. | 1:11 |
Felix Armfield | About eight miles outside of New Iberia? | 1:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 1:14 |
Felix Armfield | Tell me a little bit about the history of Avery Island. When you say Avery Island here in this area of Louisiana, what does it mean? | 1:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There were salt mine. | 1:30 |
Felix Armfield | There were salt mines. Okay. Did you in fact work at the salt mines? | 1:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 1:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now what did you do there at Avery Island? | 1:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I worked for the private owner as the yard man and a butler. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, you worked for—Someone's knocking at the door. | 1:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:01:54]. | 1:53 |
Felix Armfield | You worked there on Avery Island for the owners of Avery Island? | 1:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny and Avery, but it belongs to the Avery, but the McIlhenny married into the Avery family. | 1:59 |
Felix Armfield | What was that last name again? | 2:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny. | 2:17 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Okay. So, he married into the Avery family. | 2:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 2:21 |
Felix Armfield | And you worked there for them? | 2:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 2:21 |
Felix Armfield | Hold on. Just one— | 2:25 |
Felix Armfield | So, Mr. Russell, you worked for the private owners there on Avery Island, and you did what now, again, there at Avery Island? | 2:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I was a yard man and a chauffeur. | 2:25 |
Felix Armfield | You were a yard man and a chauffeur. Now, as a yard man, what did you do? | 2:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Take care of flowers. | 2:25 |
Felix Armfield | Take care of the property. | 2:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Care of the flowers. Garden. | 2:25 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. You took care of the flowers. Okay. Great. And the garden. | 2:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 2:25 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, when in fact were you born, Mr. Russell? | 2:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 1910. | 3:03 |
Felix Armfield | You were born 1910 on Avery Island? | 3:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 3:12 |
Felix Armfield | On Avery Island. | 3:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | January the 31st. | 3:16 |
Felix Armfield | January the 31st, 1910, born on Avery Island. Now, did your parents grow up on Avery Island also? | 3:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Born and raised. | 3:23 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, what do you recall them having done on Avery Island? | 3:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Worked in the the Tabasco plant. | 3:30 |
Felix Armfield | So, there's a Tabasco plant on Avery Island. | 3:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. He's the first Black [indistinct 00:03:40]. | 3:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And what was your father's name? | 3:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | William Russell Junior. | 3:48 |
Felix Armfield | William Russell Junior. Now, what did your mother do? | 3:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She never did anything. | 4:02 |
Felix Armfield | Your mother was a housewife? | 4:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | A housewife, right. | 4:04 |
Felix Armfield | Did she do any domestic work for the White families there on Avery Island? | 4:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Not that I know. | 4:10 |
Felix Armfield | Not that you knew of. So, your mother didn't work in the Tabasco plant? | 4:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 4:11 |
Felix Armfield | Was there any farming that went on there at Avery Island? | 4:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 4:20 |
Felix Armfield | And what kind of things did they grow at Avery Island? | 4:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Ah, the McIlhennys, they had a canning factory. | 4:21 |
Felix Armfield | A canning— | 4:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Canning factory. Yeah. | 4:30 |
Felix Armfield | Canning factory. | 4:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had canned tomatoes, okra, and pepper, sweet potato. That okra, they had called it Creole dinner. | 4:33 |
Felix Armfield | Creole okra? | 4:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Creole dinner. | 4:59 |
Felix Armfield | Creole dinner. Okay. They did all this canning of this food there at Avery Island? | 5:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. The McIlhennys canned that. | 5:15 |
Felix Armfield | Again, what was that family's name? | 5:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny. | 5:22 |
Felix Armfield | American? | 5:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny. | 5:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | McIlhenny. [indistinct 00:05:27] | 5:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | M-C-I-L-I- | 5:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:05:29] M-C-H. | 5:25 |
Felix Armfield | M-C-H. | 5:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | They're on the Tabasco bottle. | 5:32 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Once you get that on the Tabasco bottle, I'll spell it out. Ima need a proper word for them. | 5:33 |
Felix Armfield | But at any rate, your father was the first Black man to work in the Tabasco plant? | 5:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. [indistinct 00:05:49]. | 5:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 5:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:05:51]. | 5:49 |
Felix Armfield | What did he do in the Tabasco plant, Mr. Russell? | 5:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Around there bottling Tabasco. | 5:55 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, he in fact did some of the bottling of Tabasco? | 6:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 6:05 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, when did you begin working for the McIlhenny family? | 6:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 1926. | 6:14 |
Felix Armfield | 1926. So, you must have been, what, about 16? | 6:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 16. | 6:18 |
Felix Armfield | 16 years old. What did you begin doing? | 6:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Working in the gardens. | 6:24 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Working the gardens for them. | 6:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Okay. And in the house. | 6:29 |
Felix Armfield | And in the house. What kinds of things did you do in the house? | 6:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | At that time, see, one brother married one sister, two brothers married the two sisters. I worked for Rufus McIlhenny up until '45. | 6:37 |
Felix Armfield | And what was his first name? | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Rufus. | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | Rufus. Okay. | 7:26 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:07:27] | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:07:27] | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And from '45, I worked for the other brother and sister. | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. From '45 up until when? | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Until— | 7:26 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:07:33]. | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Wait. | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | 1945 up until? | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | '57. | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | 1957. | 7:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | He died in '49, Ned McIlhenny. | 7:41 |
Felix Armfield | Ned. | 7:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. I was working for him and his wife. | 7:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:07:50] | 7:47 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 7:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And he died in '49. Silver Wade was his wife. And she died in '57, and I worked for her daughter until she died in '80. | 7:53 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? So, you began working for Ned Rufus in 1926 until 1945. From 1945 to 1957, you worked for the other brother. | 8:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Brother and sister. Their brother died in '49. Then I worked for his wife. She died in '57 | 8:34 |
Felix Armfield | '57 to 1980, you worked for the daughter? | 8:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Right. | 8:36 |
Felix Armfield | So, you worked for this whole family- | 8:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | All my life. | 8:52 |
Felix Armfield | —up until 1980. Now, how much education did your parents receive there at Avery Island, Mr. Russell. Did they have any schooling there at Avery Island? | 8:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 9:02 |
Felix Armfield | Your parents didn't receive any schooling? | 9:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My mother could read a little. | 9:04 |
Felix Armfield | She could read a little. | 9:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My daddy couldn't read and write. | 9:09 |
Felix Armfield | Your father could not read and write? | 9:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 9:15 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. What kind of housing were you provided with there on Avery Island? How were your living conditions at Avery Island? | 9:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Wonderful. | 9:25 |
Felix Armfield | They were wonderful. | 9:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They were. | 9:27 |
Felix Armfield | And what made them wonderful, Mr. Russell? | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I don't know. But they were nice people to work with. They were the McIlhennys. They would help you if you needed. | 9:31 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. Were you and your family the only Black families that lived down in Avery Island? | 9:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 9:52 |
Felix Armfield | Were you the only ones who worked for the owners? | 9:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Mm-mm. No. There were a bunch of them. | 9:57 |
Felix Armfield | There were a bunch of other Black people who in fact worked [indistinct 00:10:04]. | 10:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 10:03 |
Felix Armfield | Now, did you receive any education at Avery Island? | 10:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I went to the sixth grade. | 10:07 |
Felix Armfield | You went to the sixth grade here on Avery Island. Now, there was a Black school on Avery Island? | 10:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 10:15 |
Felix Armfield | And what was the name of that school? Can you remember? | 10:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | Avery Island School, wasn't it? | 10:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's all I know. | 10:19 |
Felix Armfield | Was it Avery Islands School? | 10:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 10:24 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Avery Island School. Can you remember what the school looked like? How was it? Was it a one-room school? | 10:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There was two rooms. | 10:34 |
Felix Armfield | There were two rooms. And how many teachers did you have there at the school? | 10:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Two. | 10:40 |
Felix Armfield | You had two teachers? | 10:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 10:42 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And you went through the sixth grade. Did you get to go to school every day? | 10:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 10:47 |
Felix Armfield | You went to school every day. Now, how old were you when you finished the sixth grade? | 10:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 16. | 10:53 |
Felix Armfield | You were 16. And at that time, that's when you began working for the Avery family? | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The McIlhenny. | 11:02 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. McIlhenny family. Okay. But, in fact, the McIlhenny had married the Averys? | 11:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. They married into the Avery family. | 11:13 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And that's when they named it the McIlhenny? | 11:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. It's named Avery | 11:19 |
Felix Armfield | It's called Avery Island. | 11:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 11:25 |
Felix Armfield | But the company that made Tabasco. | 11:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny. | 11:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Gotcha. | 11:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The salt mine, that was Avery Island Salt Mine. | 11:38 |
Felix Armfield | Now, you didn't work in the salt mines? | 11:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 11:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, did you ever see that operation of how things were done in the salt mine? I've never been to a salt mine, so I don't even know what to expect of a salt mine. | 11:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well— | 11:50 |
Felix Armfield | How was that set up? | 11:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | At that time, it was 500 feet deep. | 11:52 |
Felix Armfield | 500 feet deep? | 11:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. And then had mules down there. | 11:58 |
Felix Armfield | They had mules down there. | 12:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Down there and pull the carts up to the elevator, and they brought it up and grind it. | 12:07 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, what did this salt look like when they brought it up from out of these mines? | 12:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | A big rock. | 12:22 |
Felix Armfield | It was just a big rock. But it was pure salt at the time. | 12:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. Like a crystal. | 12:27 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? And now did they actually grind the salt there on Avery Island also? | 12:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 12:33 |
Felix Armfield | So they had—What would they call, salt mills or [indistinct 00:12:39] | 12:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 12:40 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:12:41] sterling salt. | 12:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No, not at the time I'm talking about. | 12:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, what were they called? | 12:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Avery Island Salt Mine. | 12:50 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island Salt Mine. That's where they would grind the salt? | 12:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 12:54 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. What were you going to say, Mr. Russell? | 12:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She was talking about when them Southern salt people rented that salt mine from New York, Prentice Salt Company. | 13:09 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, when did that happen? Mrs. Russell? | 13:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She don't know. | 13:19 |
Felix Armfield | You don't remember when they did that? | 13:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She wasn't- | 13:19 |
Felix Armfield | But you said something about crystal salt? | 13:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I said- | 13:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | He said crystal. | 13:33 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 13:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | I said that they named it on the bottle. They bottled the salt. At one time, they named Sterling. | 13:33 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. They named it Sterling Salt, but this [indistinct 00:13:42] | 13:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | But it's not- | 13:42 |
Felix Armfield | —you said that's when the people from New York came down and rented the mine. They called it Sterling Salt. | 13:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The Averys don't have nothing to do with it. No. It's the people in New York. | 13:48 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Is that when it became Morton Salt? | 13:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. Morton Salt, Weeks Island. | 14:00 |
Felix Armfield | It's at Weeks Island. And that's a totally different salt mine from the one that was at Avery? | 14:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Three. Jefferson Island, Avery Island, and Weeks Island. | 14:07 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And on all three of the islands, there were salt mines. | 14:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 14:19 |
Felix Armfield | And there still are salt mines there, aren't there? | 14:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | One of them went under. Jefferson. | 14:20 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Jefferson, they no longer mine salt- | 14:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 14:25 |
Felix Armfield | —at Jefferson Island? | 14:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 14:26 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, what religion was your family, Mr. Russell out on Avery Island? | 14:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Catholic. | 14:38 |
Felix Armfield | You were Catholic? Did you have a Catholic priest out on Avery Island? | 14:40 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 14:43 |
Felix Armfield | Hod did you get your Mass? | 14:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Walked. | 14:48 |
Felix Armfield | You walked to services? | 14:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had little church out from Avery Island about four miles. | 15:01 |
Felix Armfield | Out from Avery Island. And you would walk from Avery Island to get Mass on Sunday? | 15:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. We had a train run out there. Would come in on a Saturday. | 15:06 |
Felix Armfield | So, there was a train that ran out to Avery Island? | 15:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 15:15 |
Felix Armfield | And you would get on the train and come into town? | 15:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 15:17 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. But you had to come in on Saturday. | 15:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 15:21 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. I see. Your priest, was it a Black priest or White priest that issued Mass to you? | 15:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | White. | 15:29 |
Felix Armfield | You had a White priest. Was it a Black congregation that you attended services in? | 15:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 15:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, you went to an all-Black Catholic church? Right. And what was the name of the Catholic church? | 15:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | St. Edwards. | 15:46 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, you came into St. Edwards at that time? | 15:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 15:49 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Are you all still- | 15:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right here. | 15:49 |
Felix Armfield | —attending services now at St. Edwards? | 15:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 15:52 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, I see. Good, good. Mrs. Russell, were you born and raised out on Avery Island also? | 15:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. | 16:02 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, how did you and Mr. Russell meet to get this love affair and this romance going on that has lasted all these years? | 16:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | Well, we had high water here in New Iberia, I'm from New Iberia, in 1927. And they moved the people because the water was getting all in their houses and all, and they moved us to Avery Island. | 16:10 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 16:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | And that's how I met him. | 16:26 |
Felix Armfield | When you moved out to Avery Island because of the high water? | 16:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 16:31 |
Felix Armfield | And that's when you ran into Mr. James Russell. | 16:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right. | 16:34 |
Felix Armfield | Was it love at first sight for the two of you? | 16:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | Well, not really, at least. | 16:36 |
Felix Armfield | You courted it for a while, huh? | 16:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, well, I didn't court right then. Then one time I saw him and I said, "Are you from Avery Island?" And he said, "Yes." And then we got to talking and then he asked me could he come see me. | 16:40 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Mr. Russell made certain that he didn't let you slip past him anymore, huh? | 16:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 17:02 |
Felix Armfield | I see. How old were you two when you did get married? | 17:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I was— | 17:08 |
Felix Armfield | When did you get married? | 17:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 1933. | 17:11 |
Felix Armfield | 1933, you got married. And so how many years have you been together if this is '94? | 17:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | 61 years. | 17:18 |
Felix Armfield | You've been married 61 years. | 17:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 17:22 |
Felix Armfield | Really. Now, how were conditions for you out on Avery Island during the Depression, Mr. Russell? | 17:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, Avery was okay for us. | 17:31 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And why was it okay for you? | 17:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The McIlhenny man, he provided for us. | 17:42 |
Felix Armfield | He provided for you there on Avery Island? | 17:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. They made a victory garden, and when [indistinct 00:17:57] in the evening, you go in and works this garden. That was everybody. | 17:51 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, everyone went in after evenings when they got finished with work and worked in that garden that was provided for you there on Avery Island. | 18:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 18:10 |
Felix Armfield | Could you feel free to eat out of that garden when you wanted to? | 18:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. You'd go in and pick your vegetables and bring them home. | 18:15 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, how big was the family home there on Avery Island? | 18:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | What? My family? | 18:25 |
Felix Armfield | Yes, sir. How big was your family home? | 18:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | When I was small or I was married? | 18:34 |
Felix Armfield | When you were small. | 18:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, there was four boys and one girl. | 18:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, there were five children- | 18:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 18:51 |
Felix Armfield | —in the family? Were you the oldest or youngest or in the middle? | 18:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Youngest. | 18:55 |
Felix Armfield | You were the youngest child in the family? | 18:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 18:55 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, when you and Mrs. Russell got married in 1933, so Ms. Russell, you did eventually move out to Avery Island when you married? | 18:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | When I got married, yes. | 19:06 |
Felix Armfield | When you got married, you moved out to Avery Island permanently to be with Mr. Russell. Now, what kind of house did you all live in when you got married? | 19:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | We lived with his mother. | 19:17 |
Felix Armfield | You moved in- | 19:21 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:19:22]. | 19:22 |
Felix Armfield | —to live with his parents for one year? | 19:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 19:24 |
Felix Armfield | And then you moved out to your own house there on Avery Island? | 19:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. Right. | 19:28 |
Felix Armfield | The owners provided you with the house there on Avery Island? | 19:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 19:32 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, did you continue to be the groundsman and chauffeur for the family? | 19:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 19:41 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Mrs. Russell, what did you do once you got married [indistinct 00:19:46]? | 19:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | I didn't do anything for quite a few years, and then I started working at different [indistinct 00:19:53] he worked and I'd cook. | 19:49 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, did you cooked for the owners? | 19:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 19:49 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. You cooked for the owners while Mr. Russell continued to be the chauffeur? | 20:00 |
Nancy V. Russell | Not always. Just when the cook would be sick, they'd call on me to go in and [indistinct 00:20:10] | 20:04 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Whenever their regular cook was out or something. | 20:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | And a few years after that, my children were all gone then, well, I have to start working every day. | 20:20 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, how many children did you and Mr. Russell have? | 20:21 |
Nancy V. Russell | Six. | 20:23 |
Felix Armfield | You have six children of your own. And all your children were born out on Avery Island? | 20:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 20:26 |
Felix Armfield | Really. And did you raise them all out on Avery Island? | 20:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 20:29 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, did they receive education out on Avery Island? | 20:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. Right. | 20:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, until the seventh grade. | 20:35 |
Felix Armfield | And then what did you do with them? | 20:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | And then they came to New Iberia. | 20:39 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, they could go up through seventh grade out on Avery Island, and then after they completed seventh grade, if they were to continue to finish school, then you had to send them in to New Iberia? | 20:40 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 20:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 20:48 |
Felix Armfield | Now, how did they get into New Iberia, Mr. Russell? | 20:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | At first, they had a man with a truck came out there and got them. | 20:54 |
Felix Armfield | They would go in on a truck. | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | Now, did the owners provide the truck? | 21:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 21:06 |
Felix Armfield | Or the public school system? | 21:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 21:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | The school. | 21:09 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now did your children receive Catholic education or public education? | 21:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, they all went to Catholic, but then they didn't have any more high school. My two oldest, my daughters, they both finished high school at St. Edwards. After that, they didn't have any more high school. So, the other children, when they finish up to the seventh or eighth grade, they had to go to public school and they finished in the public school. | 21:14 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Here in New Iberia. | 21:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Then my youngest one finished at the Catholic school at a all-boys' school, White school. Catholic high [indistinct 00:21:45] | 21:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. It sounds like you made certain that all your children got plenty of education. | 21:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 21:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 21:52 |
Felix Armfield | Wanted them to get as much education as possible. | 21:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right. | 21:55 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell, can you tell me a little bit about what it was like being the chauffeur for this White family out on Avery Island? Did you take them practically any and everywhere? | 21:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 22:07 |
Felix Armfield | What's the longest trip you ever made with them? | 22:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, towards New Orleans. | 22:12 |
Felix Armfield | You used to drive them into New Orleans. | 22:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 22:15 |
Felix Armfield | Would you ever have to stay overnight there in New Orleans? | 22:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 22:18 |
Felix Armfield | Now, where did you sleep when they stayed overnight? | 22:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I had cousins down there. | 22:25 |
Felix Armfield | You had family members that were in New Orleans? | 22:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 22:27 |
Felix Armfield | So, what you would do is take the White family where they were going, and then you would spend the night with cousins or relatives there in New Orleans? | 22:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 22:35 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Did you ever have to take your meals with them? | 22:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 22:43 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. You never did have to take your meals with them. Now, when you were working there at the big house on Avery Island, did you ever sit down to have meals with them? | 22:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 22:57 |
Felix Armfield | Where did you take your meals, then? | 22:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We had dining area [indistinct 00:23:03]. | 23:03 |
Felix Armfield | And when you say us, you mean for the Black workers there? | 23:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:06 |
Felix Armfield | You had your own separate dining area. | 23:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:09 |
Felix Armfield | That was set apart from the White family? | 23:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:11 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And that was the only place you were permitted to have the meals? | 23:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:17 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, you said that you took care of the grounds. What kind of things did you do on the yard? | 23:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Upkeeping the flowers. | 23:33 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. You upkept the flowers. | 23:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. And the lawn. | 23:35 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And you took care of the lawn and all that kind of stuff. Were you the only person who did that? | 23:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 23:41 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. There were others who worked with- | 23:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:44 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, you said that in 1980, you retired from working with the family? | 23:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | '87. | 23:55 |
Felix Armfield | 1987. You worked up until 1987? | 23:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 23:59 |
Felix Armfield | Really. Man, that was a long time. And you began working for them in 1926? | 23:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 24:08 |
Felix Armfield | And you worked until 1987. | 24:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 24:09 |
Felix Armfield | That was a long time to be working for them. | 24:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 24:15 |
Felix Armfield | Woo. Now, did you ever get an opportunity to leave Avery Island to come into New Iberia as a young man? | 24:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 24:24 |
Felix Armfield | Now, how often did you come into New Iberia when you left off Avery Island? | 24:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | On every weekend. | 24:28 |
Felix Armfield | On the weekends, you'd come in. | 24:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 24:33 |
Felix Armfield | So, you did have some free time of your own. | 24:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 24:36 |
Felix Armfield | Now, how did you get here into New Iberia? If you left Avery Island, how would you come into New Iberia? | 24:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | A man had a car and we'd come with him. | 24:43 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. But you didn't have access to none of their cars to drive into New Iberia? | 24:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yes. | 24:53 |
Felix Armfield | You would occasionally be able be allowed to drive into New Iberia with their car by yourself? | 24:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Right. | 24:58 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? For a Saturday night dance? | 25:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 25:02 |
Felix Armfield | You'd come in for the Saturday night- | 25:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Go into New Orleans- | 25:02 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you'd go into New Orleans? | 25:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Those people were wonderful people. They were wonderful. | 25:08 |
Felix Armfield | Really? Really? It sounds like you really had no problems working out there for them. | 25:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 25:24 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 25:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No problem at all. | 25:24 |
Felix Armfield | Good, good. | 25:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She even loaned me out a convertible. | 25:24 |
Felix Armfield | She learned you how to what now? | 25:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Had a convertible. | 25:32 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. They had a convertible [indistinct 00:25:34] | 25:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had—That her [indistinct 00:25:37] person, the last person I worked for. Their daughter. | 25:32 |
Felix Armfield | Had a convertible. And did you ever get to use that convertible? | 25:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yeah. | 25:32 |
Felix Armfield | Sounds like you did some styling in that convertible. | 25:56 |
Felix Armfield | Was there any sugar cane growing up on Avery Island? | 25:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. Avery grew sugar cane, cotton, and corn, sweet potato. McIlhenny grew tomato, okra. What—Sweet potatoes and fig. They canned figs and [indistinct 00:26:25] | 26:07 |
Felix Armfield | Fogs. Okay. And they did all of this manufacturing right out there on Avery Island. | 26:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 26:29 |
Felix Armfield | Now, did they hire people to work in these factories that were out on Avery Island from outside Avery Island, or everybody who worked in those factories in fact lived on Avery Island? | 26:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. Some were during the okra canning time. | 26:40 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. During okra canning time. | 26:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. They come from Jennings and all over. | 26:55 |
Felix Armfield | So, they'd bring in outside people to help with the okra, but unusually. Everyone else who worked in the factory lived on Avery Island. | 26:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 26:59 |
Felix Armfield | Really? Now, how big was Avery Island? It must have been pretty big if it provided living quarters for all these people who worked in these factories. | 27:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Avery Island had 20,000 acres of highland, 20,000 acres of marsh and swamp. | 27:49 |
Felix Armfield | 20,000 acres of highlands- | 27:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 28,000. | 27:51 |
Felix Armfield | 28,000 acres of highland? | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 27:52 |
Felix Armfield | Now, what do you mean when you say highland, Mr. Russell? | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Land like this. | 27:52 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Land that you could use. | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 27:52 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And they have 20,000 marsh and swamp. | 27:52 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, that 28,000 acres of land that was out on Avery Island that was highland, was part of that the salt mine also? | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 27:56 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 27:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The salt mine and Tabasco plant. | 27:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, was that the first Tabasco plant that's out at Avery Island? That's the very first and probably the only Tabasco plant. | 28:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 28:11 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, all of the Tabasco that's around the country and world today comes from- | 28:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | It was McIlhenny-owned. | 28:17 |
Felix Armfield | And when did they start making Tabasco? Can you remember? | 28:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | It's there on the bottle. | 28:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | 1868, I think. | 28:24 |
Felix Armfield | They began making Tabasco sauce in 1868. | 28:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 28:32 |
Felix Armfield | That was even before you were born. | 28:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yeah. Long time. | 28:34 |
Felix Armfield | So, when did your father begin working in that Tabasco plant? Was he already working in the Tabasco plant when you were born? | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yes. | 28:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 28:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | He was so small. | 28:46 |
Felix Armfield | So, your father had been working in the Tabasco plant- | 28:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:28:52]. | 28:51 |
Felix Armfield | —from the very beginning, huh? | 28:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 28:52 |
Felix Armfield | Now, the peppers that go into that Tabasco sauce did they grow them out at Avery Island also? | 28:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. They about ready to pick pepper now, about the last and next one. | 28:58 |
Felix Armfield | They'll be getting ready. It'll be pepper picking season. | 29:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And they aged that pepper for three years before they use it. | 29:20 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? I didn't realize it was aged before they used it. I thought they just picked it and it was ready to use. | 29:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. They brought in old barrels that they barreled whiskey and stuff. They age it in that. | 29:25 |
Felix Armfield | So, they've aged the pepper for three years before they would use it to go in the Tabasco sauce. | 29:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 29:44 |
Felix Armfield | Now, I'm sure you must have seen how they made that Tabasco sauce. | 29:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Water—No. Vinegar, salt they put it in the barrel and sealed up the top of the barrel. Then they let it sit for three years. | 29:54 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, the salt and vinegar. | 30:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. But before they seal it, they had to stir [indistinct 00:30:24] some in it so long they stirring- | 30:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You talking about they stirring it when they get ready to bottle it. | 30:24 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, so they didn't stir it up until they got ready to bottle it? | 30:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 30:30 |
Felix Armfield | So, they'd just seal it then with the salt and vinegar. | 30:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They bore holes in the top of the barrel so it can breathe. | 30:30 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. That's an interesting process. And was all- | 30:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:30:43] tell him how long they [indistinct 00:30:46]. | 30:43 |
Rosalind Miller | The bottle says 125 years ago, so that would 1879. | 30:46 |
Felix Armfield | So, he's probably about right. Somewhere between 1868 and 1879. We don't know when that label necessarily was put on. | 30:51 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:30:58]. It's like a old bottle. | 30:58 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. Yeah. So, this is right after the Civil War that they began making that Tabasco. Now, the people that were—Do you remember when you and your mother and father talk about when they were born? Were they born before the Civil War? | 31:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No, I don't think so. | 31:22 |
Felix Armfield | They were right after the Civil War? | 31:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Because my father's father, he fought in that Civil War. | 31:25 |
Felix Armfield | Now, did he fight for the Confederacy or the Union? | 31:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I couldn't tell you that. | 31:33 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. But your grandfather fought in the Civil War? | 31:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 31:42 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Do you think they were living out on Avery Island? | 31:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No, I don't think so. | 31:48 |
Felix Armfield | You don't think so. But you know that your parents grew up on Avery Island. | 31:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 31:55 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Did your parents die out on Avery Island itself? | 31:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 31:59 |
Felix Armfield | Are they buried out on Avery Island? | 32:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. My mother and father both are buried. | 32:02 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, there are actual grave sites there on Avery Island? | 32:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 32:09 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. If I went out to Avery Island, I probably could find your parents' graves? | 32:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 32:13 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now- | 32:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My grandfather, William Russell, he had [indistinct 00:32:24] some from down there that's where he found out whether he fought in this Confederate war or not. | 32:18 |
Felix Armfield | So, your grandfather, William Russell, is also buried at Avery Island. | 32:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 32:41 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, do you know if your grandmother's buried off here also? | 32:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 32:48 |
Felix Armfield | So, both of them are buried at Avery Island. | 32:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 32:48 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island has a long, rich history here in [indistinct 00:32:54] | 32:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Both of my grandparents are buried here at Avery Island. | 32:48 |
Felix Armfield | Both sets of your grandparents are buried out at Avery Island. | 32:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 33:02 |
Felix Armfield | So clearly, they all worked out at Avery Island. Chances are they may have been slaves right there. | 33:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. They were- | 33:08 |
Felix Armfield | On Avery Island. | 33:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 33:09 |
Felix Armfield | They were not slaves. | 33:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The Sims were slaves in Washington, DC. | 33:19 |
Felix Armfield | They were slaves in Washington, DC. | 33:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's where they came from. And Russell was from Virginia. | 33:21 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. That's interesting. So, your maternal grandparents, the Sims, were from Washington, DC. | 33:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 33:37 |
Felix Armfield | And your paternal grandparents, the Russells, were out of Virginia. | 33:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 33:42 |
Felix Armfield | Do you know what brought them to Louisiana following the close of the Civil War? They clearly came after the Civil War. Why do you suppose they came to Louisiana? | 33:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My grandmother took us. | 33:53 |
Felix Armfield | Now, which grandmother? Grandmother Russell or Grandmother Sim? | 33:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 34:02 |
Felix Armfield | Grandmother Russell. Okay. | 34:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Said they loaded them all on a big boat with music playing and a big feast. | 34:11 |
Felix Armfield | So, they loaded them all on a big boat? | 34:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 34:19 |
Felix Armfield | There was music playing and they had a feast on the boat. | 34:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. When they looked out, there was just sky and water. That's how they got here. | 34:20 |
Felix Armfield | Did they know that they were getting ready to leave that area? | 34:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Not that I know. [indistinct 00:34:35] down here probably shored them. | 34:31 |
Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, your Grandmother Russell said that they were just told that they were going to have a big feast and when they discovered that they were leaving Richmond, Virginia? Or just- | 34:40 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 34:53 |
Felix Armfield | —Virginia? Virginia. | 34:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 34:55 |
Felix Armfield | And they discovered that they were heading down the river coming into Louisiana. | 34:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 35:01 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, my goodness. How did your grandmother ever mention how she felt about that? | 35:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 35:07 |
Felix Armfield | But just that she was surprised to discover that they were going to end up in Louisiana. Basically, they were brought to Louisiana and taken out to Avery Island and put to work on Avery Island is what it sounds like. Therefore, your grandparents were probably adults when they got to Avery Island. | 35:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I presume. | 35:28 |
Felix Armfield | And then your parents would be born there at Avery Island. | 35:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 35:33 |
Felix Armfield | Both your parents were born on Avery Island. | 35:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. My Grandfather Sim, he worked for the Averys. | 35:35 |
Felix Armfield | He worked for the Averys, your Grandfather Sim. | 35:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. They raised cotton and canned sweet potatoes and corn, and he had a sugar mill. | 35:48 |
Felix Armfield | Sugar mill, okay. | 36:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. He was a foreman down there. | 36:03 |
Felix Armfield | Your grandfather? Grandfather Sim was the foreman at the sugar mill. | 36:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 36:10 |
Felix Armfield | That's interesting. He must have been the only Black man that was the foreman at the sugar mill. | 36:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 36:13 |
Felix Armfield | Really? Well, it seems that probably all the workers at the sugar mill probably were Black people. | 36:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. Right. Right. | 36:21 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, he was a foreman over all these other Black workers that were at the sugar mill. Now, the sugar that was being processed at the mill, was it from the sugar cane fields only at Avery Island or the surrounding area? | 36:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Only at Avery Island. | 36:42 |
Felix Armfield | Only at Avery Island. So, Avery Island was producing its own sugar? | 36:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 36:45 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And that was being packaged and prepared to be sold at Avery Island also? Or it was being shipped off the island to be sold? | 36:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yeah. | 36:55 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. What are some of your earliest memories, Mr. Russell, as a young child on Avery Island? What are some of the first things you remember about Avery Island as a child? | 36:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I remember that they had this pepper plant- | 37:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:37:14]. | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —and salt mine. | 37:09 |
Felix Armfield | They had a pepper plant and salt mine. | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. And they- | 37:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | (doorbell rings) Come on! | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had a sand pit- | 37:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | Come on! | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —and a gravel pit. | 37:09 |
Felix Armfield | They had a what now? | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Sand pit. | 37:09 |
Felix Armfield | They had a sand pit and a gravel pit. | 37:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 37:09 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 37:09 |
Speaker 6 | [indistinct 00:37:14] | 37:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | Hi. I thought y'all had gone. | 37:13 |
Speaker 6 | Uh-uh. | 37:43 |
Speaker 6 | [INTERRUPTION 00:37:43] | 37:43 |
Felix Armfield | You want to finish telling me about some of your early recollections there at Avery Island? You told me about you remember the pepper plant, and the salt mines, and you had a sand and gravel pit there. | 37:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I remember when the first plant, small plant, nice, three or four times as large as— | 38:03 |
Felix Armfield | Now which plant was that? The Tabasco plant? | 38:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 38:15 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 38:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | This young lady grandfather helped to build some other plant. | 38:23 |
Felix Armfield | You're talking about Mr. Miller? | 38:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 38:30 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Miller helped build- | 38:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | His great-grandfather. | 38:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mr. Romeo Miller. [indistinct 00:38:36] | 38:30 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, Mr. Miller's father, in fact, helped to build one of the first plants out at Avery. | 38:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. DeBryson, Mr. Miller. Then on down, the son [indistinct 00:38:53], Laurie, Tiara, and what's the other name? | 38:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | Hopelin. | 39:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hopelin. | 39:00 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 39:00 |
Nancy V. Russell | Willie. | 39:00 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, all these people were helping. At least they were provided with a job, is what it sounds like to me, out on Avery Island. That's interesting. That's interesting. Now, you were still, during this time, sort of the caretaker there on Avery Island, and the chauffeur? | 39:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:27 |
Felix Armfield | You never were drafted for either of the wars, Mr. Russell? | 39:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 39:34 |
Felix Armfield | You didn't get drafted. | 39:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I was always classified as a farmer. Never was on a farm my life. | 39:36 |
Felix Armfield | So, the family made certain that you didn't have to leave for the war. So, what they did was make certain that you stayed classified as a farmer. | 39:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:55 |
Felix Armfield | And that way, you were spared of the war. So, what was the situation with farmers? Farmers didn't have to go to the war because they needed them to keep supplying food for the Army? | 39:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 40:06 |
Felix Armfield | Or for the military, I should say. | 40:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:08 |
Felix Armfield | So, you were spared of going to the war and basically they just wanted to make certain they didn't lose their caretaker is what it was. Would you agree with that? | 40:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:17 |
Nancy V. Russell | Not as much as he wanted to go [indistinct 00:40:21] | 40:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:17 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, did you in fact want to go to the war? | 40:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. They had a sign up all down Main Street. Work, fight, or go to war. | 40:34 |
Felix Armfield | Work, fight, or go to war. And then which war was this? World War I or World War II? It had to be World War II. | 40:35 |
Nancy V. Russell | World War II? | 40:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. World War I, you would've been too young. | 40:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:42 |
Felix Armfield | But by the time of World War II, they were advertising that they wanted young men to go to war, huh? | 40:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. I'd go up there all in my silver uniform, stand up on the street, never would bother me. | 40:49 |
Felix Armfield | They would not bother you. Why is that, Mr. Russell? | 41:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Because Rufus McIlhenny was president of police jury. | 41:05 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. Was head of the police what now? | 41:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | President of the police jury. | 41:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | Jury. | 41:25 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, he was president of the police jury. And he saw to it that you did not go to war. | 41:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 41:33 |
Felix Armfield | Would you have signed up had they allowed you to? | 41:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 41:36 |
Felix Armfield | Why did you want to go to war so bad, Mr. Russell? | 41:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Because all of my friends was going. That's why. | 41:39 |
Felix Armfield | And they were having an opportunity to see the parts of the world that you couldn't quite see on Avery Island. | 41:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. That's why I didn't go any further than the sixth grade. The other guys was working. I wanted to go to work, too. My dad and my mother didn't want me to stop, wanted me to go. | 42:02 |
Felix Armfield | They wanted you to go on beyond the sixth grade. | 42:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 42:12 |
Felix Armfield | But what happened that you didn't go beyond the sixth grade, Mr. Russell? | 42:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, decided I went to work. | 42:15 |
Felix Armfield | You went to work. You went to work. So, Mr. McIlhenny saw to it that you went to work? | 42:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. He didn't force me to go to work. | 42:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:42:24] his mother didn't want him to stop school but he stopped because the other men were going to work, young men was working. So, he wanted to go to work. | 42:24 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, and you wanted to go to work, too, because some of the other younger fellas were pretty much working at that time. So, you wanted to go to work. Well, what kind of pay did you receive as the caretaker and the chauffeur for the family? | 42:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | At that time, a dollar a day. | 42:51 |
Felix Armfield | In 1926, you began receiving $1 a day. So, a week's worth you got $5. | 42:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Six. | 43:04 |
Felix Armfield | You got six because you worked on Saturday? | 43:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 43:06 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Now, did you receive that $6 weekly or how did you get the pay? | 43:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Daily. | 43:13 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you got that $1 a day. Okay. | 43:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Paid off every day. | 43:16 |
Felix Armfield | Really? And did everyone that worked out on the island get paid every day? | 43:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. | 43:26 |
Felix Armfield | So, the bookkeepers were quite busy. | 43:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 43:31 |
Felix Armfield | If they had to make certain people got paid [indistinct 00:43:37] | 43:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My children laugh at me when I tell them that. Yeah. Wonder how we made it. When I got married, that's all I was getting. | 43:36 |
Felix Armfield | $1 a day. But that $1 a day in 1933 must have went a long ways. | 43:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yes. | 43:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | It did. | 44:00 |
Felix Armfield | It provided for you and your wife and the kids and everything. | 44:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | We had one child at that time, | 44:06 |
Felix Armfield | You had one child. | 44:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | And he bought 25 cents worth of T-bone chops. But it was too much for the three of us. | 44:14 |
Felix Armfield | 25 cents worth of what? | 44:16 |
Nancy V. Russell | T-bone chop. | 44:16 |
Rosalind Miller | T-bone. | 44:16 |
Felix Armfield | Really? That would be too much for the three of you all to eat? | 44:18 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's right. | 44:22 |
Felix Armfield | Can we get any chop for 25 cents today? | 44:23 |
Rosalind Miller | We get the bone. | 44:33 |
Felix Armfield | You think we can get a chop for 25 cents? | 44:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | And eggs was 10 or 15 cents a dozen. | 44:33 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. You get a whole dozen of eggs or 10 or 15 cents. | 44:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's right. And rice, 25 cents a gallon. Some of the cracked rice is 15 cents a gallon. [indistinct 00:44:46] | 44:38 |
Felix Armfield | You got a whole gallon of rice- | 44:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | So that's [indistinct 00:44:47] | 44:46 |
Felix Armfield | —for 25 cents. | 44:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Milk was 10 cents a quart, 5 cents a pint. They got a loaf of bread for 5 cents then. And you could go in the store and get, [indistinct 00:45:01] | 44:55 |
Felix Armfield | I don't think we can get a loaf bread for a dollar today. | 45:00 |
Nancy V. Russell | You go in the store and get a- | 45:01 |
Felix Armfield | You stretching it. | 45:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | They don't sell anything loose. | 45:01 |
Felix Armfield | They would sell what loose now? | 45:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:45:10] They would tell all sugar beets and things, you could get a nickel worth or a dime. Beans. | 45:14 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you didn't have to go- | 45:16 |
Nancy V. Russell | Sugar. | 45:17 |
Felix Armfield | —in and buy like a big bag- | 45:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 45:19 |
Felix Armfield | —today. You didn't have to buy it by the bag. | 45:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | You could weigh it. | 45:19 |
Felix Armfield | You could go in and weigh out how much sugar you want. | 45:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | If I want a nickel's worth of sugar, they'd give you sugar about that much, bag. Rice, flour, anything you could get loose. Everything was loose. | 45:23 |
Felix Armfield | Then could you do all this shopping right there on Avery Island? | 45:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 45:40 |
Felix Armfield | So, there were stores and things on it. | 45:41 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 45:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had two stores on Avery Island. | 45:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, who ran these stores on Avery Island? | 45:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There were, where I was living, one side of island that was the McIlhenny store, and the other side of the island was the Avery store. | 45:49 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, obviously, I need something cleared up here. I thought that the island belonged to the Avery family, but you're telling me that there was another family on—Is that the McIlhenny family? | 46:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. They married into the Avery. | 46:19 |
Felix Armfield | And then McIlhennys moved on to the island also. | 46:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 46:28 |
Felix Armfield | Once they married into the family. And the Averys had a store and the McIlhenny had a store. But you worked for the McIlhennys. | 46:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 46:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | McIlhenny. | 46:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Macklehenny. | 46:36 |
Felix Armfield | Mac-la-henny. Okay. | 46:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:46:42]. | 46:37 |
Felix Armfield | I'm trying to pronounce it with this upper South accent, but it's called Mac-la-henny. | 46:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 46:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 46:49 |
Felix Armfield | I'll get it right. Probably by the time the interview's over, but I'll get it right. What were some of the social kinds of things that you did on Avery Island when you weren't working? What did you do for fun as a young man on Avery Island? | 46:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, on weekends there, they— | 47:08 |
Felix Armfield | So some weekends, you had what was referred to as a bazaar? | 0:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:07 |
Felix Armfield | And that was like a big party? | 0:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:10 |
Felix Armfield | There on the island. And it was for everybody to attend. | 0:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:14 |
Felix Armfield | Was it just for the Black people, or did some of the white people on the island attend also? | 0:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There not many white people around when I was small. It were ran by Black people, mostly. | 0:19 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So Black people pretty much ran Avery Island when you were small? | 0:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:33 |
Felix Armfield | Now what kinds of things went on at this big bazaar? | 0:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They sold gumbo, candy, popcorn. | 0:43 |
Felix Armfield | They sold it to you? | 0:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 0:45 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? It wasn't just a party where everything was free? | 0:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. And they make home brew. | 0:49 |
Felix Armfield | Made home brew. Now what's home brew? | 0:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Beer. | 0:57 |
Nancy V. Russell | Beer. | 0:57 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. Did they ever have a beer brewery on Avery Island? | 0:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. You make it home there. | 1:04 |
Felix Armfield | Did you all make it yourself? | 1:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 1:08 |
Felix Armfield | How do you make it? Can you tell me about that whole process of making home brew? | 1:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | [inaudible 00:01:13] Yeast. | 1:12 |
Felix Armfield | Mrs. Russell, how did you do it? | 1:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | Put yeast cake. They used to have yeast cake, but now they have the yeast powder. And sugar. And do your job with the water and put your yeast cake in there and you sugar [inaudible 00:01:35]. | 1:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And malt. [inaudible 00:01:36] Malt. | 1:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | And malt, you had to buy malt, a can of malt. And you open that, and you put all that, it's like a thick, thick syrup. You open that, stir it up good. And you put a piece of cloth over the jar, big jar, and tie it and let it— | 1:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Ferment. | 1:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | Let it stay there there about four or five days before you bottle it. | 1:51 |
Felix Armfield | And then you got beer after about four or five days? | 2:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. Then you bottle it and cap your bottles. | 2:04 |
Felix Armfield | So it's no longer thick and syrupy? | 2:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. | 2:08 |
Felix Armfield | That's interesting. Was it good? I would love to know what it even tastes like. I never had— | 2:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Taste like beer. | 2:16 |
Felix Armfield | Really? Was it strong? | 2:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 2:20 |
Felix Armfield | Could you get tipsy off of it? | 2:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And you, bottom of your crock, after you get all the beer out— | 2:26 |
Felix Armfield | Yes sir. | 2:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You take that bottom and put it in a gallon jug with a pound of sugar. | 2:35 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. And you tie that up with piece of cloth on the edge. [inaudible 00:02:53]. | 2:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It is going clear, clear like whiskey. | 2:47 |
Felix Armfield | So it's stronger than the beer that came out originally? | 2:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh yes. | 2:59 |
Felix Armfield | And it's called Ease On? I don't think I'd want to try none of that. Sounds like you had quite a bit of social activity going on there at Avery Island. | 3:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh yeah. | 3:17 |
Felix Armfield | Sometimes he ran the hall out there. | 3:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Concession stand. | 3:18 |
Felix Armfield | On Avery Island? | 3:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 3:24 |
Felix Armfield | Now, when was this that you was running this hall or concession stand? | 3:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right across from our house when I lived— | 3:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | About miles here and that. | 3:29 |
Felix Armfield | So this was after you got married? | 3:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 3:33 |
Felix Armfield | So it was after 1933 that you started doing this? | 3:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 3:36 |
Felix Armfield | Now, when did Avery Island become a tourist attraction? When did Avery Island get to the point where people were going out there to see it? | 3:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | 1936. | 3:45 |
Felix Armfield | 1936, Avery Island became a tourist attraction? | 3:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 3:52 |
Felix Armfield | People were coming out there looking at the kinds of things that you all were doing. | 3:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 3:57 |
Felix Armfield | I mean, because for me coming into this area, certainly not being from Louisiana, coming to this area, one of the things that I certainly was told that I had to see was an Avery Island or Weeks Island or what was it? Jefferson Island. It's just one of those things that we clearly, as an outsider, sees a tourist attraction, but for you, it was something more than just a tourist attraction. It sounds like it was a way of life. But by 1936, it was a tourist attraction? | 3:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. That's when it started. | 4:28 |
Felix Armfield | Really. People were coming out daily? To see the island? | 4:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. From France, all over. | 4:44 |
Felix Armfield | From all over the place, huh? | 4:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Yeah. | 4:44 |
Felix Armfield | So you had French even coming down here to see what their cousins were doing, really. | 4:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. We have a Buddhist temple on Avery— | 4:46 |
Felix Armfield | You have what now? | 4:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Buddha. | 4:52 |
Felix Armfield | A Buddha? | 4:58 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | Buddha temple. | 5:01 |
Felix Armfield | Now you want to tell me about this Buddha temple. What was a Buddha temple? | 5:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | Buddha. | 5:04 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | It's still there. | 5:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | Like the Buddha. | 5:04 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | Big Buddha statue. | 5:07 |
Felix Armfield | Oh really? And it stands on Avery Island? Now why was the Buddha temple erected? Tell me the history behind that, Mr. Russell. | 5:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Some Chinaman gave it to Mr. McIlhenny. | 5:22 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So it was given to— | 5:27 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | Or he stole it. Gave it to him. | 5:27 |
Felix Armfield | Which one was it, Mr. Russell? Your son says you need to come clean with it. Was it given to him, or was it stolen? | 5:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I don't know. | 5:34 |
Felix Armfield | You don't know. All you know is that the Buddha temple came to Avery Island. | 5:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 5:40 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | There's an inscription on the statue itself, but I think it was stolen out of China and then given as a gift to McIlhenny. | 5:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 5:53 |
Nancy V. Russell | That was stolen. | 5:54 |
Felix Armfield | Now, who in fact stole it from— | 5:54 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | [inaudible 00:05:58] The man who stole it and gave it to him. | 5:54 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. So it was stolen first, and then it was given to him by the person who stole it? | 6:00 |
James Lee Russell Jr. | Yeah. | 6:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | How long you'll be down there? | 6:05 |
Felix Armfield | I'm going to be here until August 13th. [inaudible 00:06:12]. Would you go on a car ride with me out to Avery Island so you can point out things to me, Mr. Russell? | 6:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes sir. | 6:17 |
Felix Armfield | I'd love to be able to take you with me. And can I take the tape recorder along? | 6:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. | 6:22 |
Felix Armfield | So we can talk as we ride and you can point out certain things? | 6:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 6:27 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So today is not going to conclude our interview. Good. I'm coming back another day. I promise. | 6:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Let me know ahead of time. | 6:32 |
Felix Armfield | I will. I'll probably get in touch with you next week, and we'll set up a date when we can take a ride out to Avery Island, and you can continue talking to me about the things that you saw there on Avery Island. What were we talking about, Mr. Russell? | 6:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | About the island. | 6:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | About taking you out. | 6:53 |
Felix Armfield | We're going to do a car ride, maybe next week. I'll come and pick you up. You can get in the car. I'll turn the air conditioner on. I'll make certain you don't get hot. None of that kind of stuff. I just want you to be comfortable and sit back and talk to me as we ride through Avery Island. Will they let us ride through Avery Island? | 6:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, with him? | 7:11 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. | 7:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh yeah. As long as he's in there with him. | 7:13 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So long as you're with me and they know that you're telling me a story, it's fine. Okay. I want you with me, though. We're going to do this one. | 7:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | All the big honors of the island there, all out in the woods. You don't see the house till you get up on it. | 7:23 |
Felix Armfield | Can we go up to those houses so you can tell me a little bit about those houses and how you used to work those lawns and all that kind of stuff now? | 7:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 7:42 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. I'm excited about this. I'm really excited about this. Why did you decide to leave Avery Island, Mr. Russell? | 7:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well had a attack of a kidney stone. | 7:57 |
Felix Armfield | So you had a kidney stone. | 8:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And the children said we was too far there from the doctors. | 8:05 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, so you were too far out on Avery Island. | 8:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | It was the two of us living. See, we live in the [inaudible 00:08:20]. | 8:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We lived in— | 8:18 |
Felix Armfield | You lived in what? | 8:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | The Jungle Garden. | 8:20 |
Rosalind Miller | In the Jungle Garden. | 8:20 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, in the Jungle Gardens. | 8:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | Just the two of us up there in the Jungle Garden in the—Yeah, so every night he'd lock the gate and we'd come in. And the house, the big house up there is where he was working and the lady died. Nobody lived in that house. And we the only two that was in that garden at night and the children got worried. | 8:25 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. I don't blame them. | 8:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | They said maybe we were getting the age now that we shouldn't be by ourself. | 8:47 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. Yeah. | 8:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | We could get sick at night or something could happen. | 8:52 |
Felix Armfield | I don't blame them. I don't blame them at all. | 8:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's why they built this house. | 8:56 |
Felix Armfield | So your children in fact are building this house for you? | 8:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 9:01 |
Felix Armfield | This is a beautiful home. | 9:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Thank you. | 9:02 |
Felix Armfield | It's a beautiful home. And they brought you into the city here in New Iberia? Did you want to come, Mr. Russell? | 9:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | At first we didn't. | 9:12 |
Felix Armfield | Neither one of you? Mr. Russell, you didn't want come? | 9:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Where we lived at— | 9:15 |
Felix Armfield | So you just been out on Avery Island all your life, and you were comfortable out there. | 9:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 9:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | See, where we lived at, it's big old trees all around our house. | 9:21 |
Felix Armfield | Will you take me and show me that too, when we go there? | 9:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 9:28 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 9:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | And we just loved it. Nobody bothered us, everything was [inaudible 00:09:29]. | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | At least all of us going. | 9:28 |
Felix Armfield | What was that, now? | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We got room for all four of us? | 9:28 |
Felix Armfield | Oh yeah. All four of us can come. You want to bring all four? | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 9:46 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, that's fine. We can do it. | 9:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He want to leave you [inaudible 00:09:52]. | 9:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Just on my arm. | 9:48 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell said I wasn't going to leave you off. No, no. I want Mrs. Russell to come, because I know Mrs. Russell's going to have some stories to tell too when she gets out there. | 9:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Some of those tourists, I'll be around there by the gate and they said, "What's that big house up there?" And I'll tell them about that house. "That's where I work." I said, "But too hard to leave this garden. Mine [inaudible 00:10:27]." He said, "What? How you got to come living here?" | 10:04 |
Felix Armfield | Really? So you had a pretty fancy house out there in those gardens? | 10:32 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It's not fancy. | 10:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Too fancy, but they just wondered why we could could move in the garden. Why they would move us in the garden. I guess they know [inaudible 00:10:45]. | 10:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, so you actually lived in the gardens? | 10:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 10:46 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 10:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There were 20— | 10:46 |
Felix Armfield | When did you move into the gardens? | 10:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | 1955. | 10:54 |
Felix Armfield | 1955. But you had already been working for the family since 1926, then. | 10:57 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 11:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, we were living in the [inaudible 00:11:07]. | 11:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [inaudible 00:11:07]. | 11:06 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, up until 1956, you—'56 or '57? | 11:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Five. | 11:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | '55. | 11:08 |
Felix Armfield | '55, you lived in the quarters. | 11:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 11:11 |
Felix Armfield | With the other Blacks. | 11:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | [inaudible 00:11:14] There was six, seven houses, would we lived up there? I told him, "Yes, I'd be glad to." | 11:14 |
Felix Armfield | So that way you got out of the quarters. | 11:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | At first, he didn't want to move out of the quarters. | 11:21 |
Felix Armfield | Are the quarters still there? | 11:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 11:21 |
Felix Armfield | So I can see the quarters too when I go down there? | 11:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 11:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | You can see the quarters. | 11:27 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, this is going to be fancy. Now, how far is Avery Island from here? | 11:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Eight mile. | 11:32 |
Felix Armfield | Eight miles. So it's just really outside New Iberia. | 11:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Who else? | 11:43 |
Felix Armfield | Just a little joy ride. | 11:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Have to go on early, because I want you go through the Tabasco plant. | 11:45 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And then I can do a tour of the Tabasco plant? Are you going to feel like walking through the Tabasco plant? | 11:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, I'm going to bring you all in. They'll [inaudible 00:11:59] you through. | 11:56 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. You're not going to have to sit out in the sun or anything, are you? | 12:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'll give that out. | 12:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | [inaudible 00:12:06] Sit inside [inaudible 00:12:06]. | 12:06 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you'll come inside and have a seat and then someone will take us on the tour? | 12:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 12:08 |
Felix Armfield | Great. Great. I'm with the man. I'm with the man. Mr. Russell, I think I— | 12:12 |
Rosalind Miller | He owes me one. | 12:16 |
Felix Armfield | I think I can go out there on Avery Island and pretty much have my way just because I'm with Mr. Russell. Mr. Russell, well why don't we do this, then? Why don't I just hold off on the rest of my interview with you then, for today, and I'll get back with you next week as we do the tour and we'll bring the tape recorder along as you go through Angry Island, and you can talk to me then. So many other things going to come in your mind then. | 12:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm going take you at the [inaudible 00:12:53] plantation. | 12:47 |
Felix Armfield | To the old plantation? | 12:53 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where my grandfather was foreman. | 12:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | Pepper field. | 13:06 |
Felix Armfield | Where your grandfather was farming on the old plantation? | 13:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where he's a foreman. | 13:08 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, he was a foreman? Yeah. I want to see that, too. I want to see that. | 13:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | In the pepper field. | 13:08 |
Felix Armfield | Are the pepper fields still there? | 13:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They are. They have them [inaudible 00:13:13]. | 13:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | [inaudible 00:13:12]. | 13:10 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I guess they got to have those peppers if they going to make that Tabasco. | 13:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, it's still picked there. | 13:17 |
Felix Armfield | And people pick it by hand or by machine? | 13:18 |
Nancy V. Russell | Hand. | 13:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hand. | 13:18 |
Felix Armfield | They still pick all that pepper by hand? | 13:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [inaudible 00:13:29], whatever you call them. Japanese were [inaudible 00:13:35]. | 13:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | They're not Japanese. | 13:34 |
Rosalind Miller | The Vietnamese. | 13:34 |
Felix Armfield | The Vietnamese. | 13:34 |
Rosalind Miller | Laotian. Laotian and Vietnamese. | 13:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the pepper pickers. | 13:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So Black people aren't doing that labor anymore? | 13:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 13:46 |
Felix Armfield | There are some Black people, but they also brought in some of the others. | 13:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | If you're good pepper picker, you can make $50 a day. | 13:52 |
Felix Armfield | That certainly wasn't the case when you were out there. Not no $50 a day. They paid you $1 a day. | 13:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 14:02 |
Felix Armfield | My goodness. Mr. Russell, this has been a fascinating interview. With you and Mr. Russell. The two of you have given me so much information that I can't wait to get back and do this tour with you. Where is my date book? I got it. So we can start thinking about when we're going to do this now. If you say we need to go early— | 14:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. I can get you through the plant. | 14:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Before [inaudible 00:14:35] before they close. | 14:35 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Yeah. For now this is going to just conclude my interview with Mr. James Russell and his wife. Mrs. Russell, what's your first name? | 14:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | Nancy. | 14:51 |
Felix Armfield | Mrs. Nancy Russell. We're going to pick back up with this interview on next Thursday, August the fourth, as they take me on a tour of Avery Island, which was their home up until just eight months ago. So for now, I'm going to conclude my interview with the Russells and I'll pick it back up next Thursday as we do the tour of Avery Island. Okay. | 14:52 |
Felix Armfield | Today is August 4, 1995. I'm Felix Armfield, the interviewer along with Rosalind Miller and Erin Bastian. They're going to go on a tour with me with Mr. And Mrs. James Russell of Avery Island as they were longtime residents of Avery Island. They're going to give us a grand tour of what life was like having been born and to grow up and work out on Avery Island. | 0:04 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell, would you just state your full name for the record? | 0:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | James Lee Russell Sr. | 0:38 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Where are we getting ready to go, Mr. Russell? | 0:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Avery Island. | 0:44 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. You lived out on Avery Island all your life, didn't you? | 0:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:50 |
Felix Armfield | Going to give me this grand tour of Avery Island. | 0:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | First, we'll go to the Tabasco plant. | 0:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 1:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | From the Tabasco plant, we'll go to the gardens. | 1:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. First place we're going to stop is the Tabasco plant. | 1:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 1:18 |
Felix Armfield | Then we're going to go to the gardens. | 1:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. From there, we'll go to pepper field. | 1:19 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. We can see the pepper fields too? | 1:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 1:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | They grow their own pepper. | 1:33 |
Felix Armfield | They grow their own peppers for the Tabasco? | 1:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 1:35 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? Are there people still working those pepper fields? | 1:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 1:41 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right here. | 1:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They stopped picking peppers about the last of this month. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | So, sometime the last of August. | 1:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 1:49 |
Felix Armfield | Aaron, did you and Rosalind know that? | 2:03 |
Rosalind Miller | Hm? | 2:06 |
Felix Armfield | Did you and Aaron know that? | 2:07 |
Rosalind Miller | What, [indistinct 00:02:08]— | 2:07 |
Felix Armfield | That grew their peppers out there? | 2:07 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 2:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They grow them out there in Mexico. | 2:12 |
Felix Armfield | They grow them here on Avery Island and in Mexico? | 2:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. They used to have a Tabasco plant in Venezuela, but— | 2:20 |
Felix Armfield | In where? | 2:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Venezuela. | 2:35 |
Rosalind Miller | Venezuela. | 2:37 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. They would ship those peppers in from Venezuela here to Avery Island? | 2:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, they had a bottling plant out there. | 2:49 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, they had a plant in Venezuela also. | 2:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. From Mexico, they'd ship it here. | 2:54 |
Felix Armfield | From Mexico they'd ship them here to the plant? | 2:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 2:59 |
Felix Armfield | I got you. Did you ever pick the peppers, Mr. Russell? | 3:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | One day, and it set me on fire and my daddy told me, "I told you not to go out there." And I haven't went since. | 3:06 |
Felix Armfield | You picked one day and your daddy didn't want to go back anymore. Why? You didn't know how to do it or what? | 3:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, it would burn there. | 3:22 |
Rosalind Miller | It's burning. | 3:22 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, the peppers started burning. | 3:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It would burn you, man, set you on fire. | 3:28 |
Felix Armfield | Will it? | 3:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I know about it now. | 3:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:37] | 3:34 |
Felix Armfield | It would burn your hands or it would actually get in your eyes and mouth? | 3:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, your hands. | 3:43 |
Felix Armfield | The last thing you want to do is put your hands in your mouth I guess. | 3:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not if you wash your hands, take a bath, that's all [indistinct 00:03:58]. | 3:51 |
Felix Armfield | Wash it while you was out there in the field? | 3:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. At night, when you go to bed, that's the time when everybody— | 3:58 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 3:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I mean to tell you this. | 3:58 |
Felix Armfield | Right here, right? | 3:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, it [indistinct 00:04:08]. | 3:59 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island. I need to get a picture of this. | 4:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This is all sugar cane field. | 4:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, do they grow sugar cane at Avery Island? | 4:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. Long years ago when my grandfather was a farmer, he used to grow cane, cotton, corn and sweet potatoes. | 4:46 |
Felix Armfield | But not anymore, huh? | 5:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 5:07 |
Felix Armfield | Now, the salt mines at Avery Island? | 5:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 5:11 |
Felix Armfield | Now, can we see the salt mines today? | 5:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. | 5:15 |
Felix Armfield | I hope Rosalind and Avery got time to fool with me all day. I mean, Aaron. Why did I call you Avery? I get your last name right, then I mess up your first name. | 5:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Now I forget your name. What's your name? | 5:32 |
Felix Armfield | Felix. Remember? | 6:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Felix. I can remember that now. | 6:16 |
Felix Armfield | You're going to remember it? | 6:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Felix. Yeah. | 6:19 |
Felix Armfield | When I come back here in a year or so, when I walk in your door, I want you to say, "That's Felix." | 6:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. I had some friends of mine name Felix. | 6:19 |
Felix Armfield | Did you? | 6:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Mm-hmm. | 6:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | How you enjoying this part of the country? | 6:46 |
Felix Armfield | I really have had a wonderful time down here. I've seen and spoken with people that I probably would never have an opportunity to see or speak with had I not come to Louisiana and New Iberia has been very fascinating. | 6:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 7:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | First time coming here? | 7:08 |
Felix Armfield | My first time ever. My first time ever seeing sugar cane. | 7:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, no. | 7:18 |
Felix Armfield | My first time ever eating boudain. My first time, and I just ate that about 30 minutes ago— | 7:18 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah, at my house. | 7:25 |
Felix Armfield | —at Rosalind's grandmother's house. | 7:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, tripe and boudain. | 7:29 |
Rosalind Miller | Chitterlings. | 7:30 |
Felix Armfield | First time ever. | 7:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. No chitterlings for me. No chitterlings, no tripe. | 7:34 |
Felix Armfield | No chitterlings? | 7:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No tripe. | 7:41 |
Felix Armfield | You wouldn't have survived in the Carolinas, Mister. | 7:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, I can't stand tripe. | 7:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, what's tripe? | 7:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Tripe is nasty. | 7:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hm? | 7:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now, what's tripe? | 7:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's where all the everything go. | 7:48 |
Felix Armfield | It's more so than chitterlings. Everything go? | 7:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Tripe, chitterlings. | 8:01 |
Felix Armfield | So, you don't mess with nobody's chitterlings, huh? | 8:01 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. Lights and all that. No. | 8:05 |
Felix Armfield | You wouldn't have made it in the Carolinas because they eat plenty of chitterlings in the Carolinas. | 8:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:08:17] | 8:11 |
Felix Armfield | And my first time ever having etouffee. | 8:18 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah, etouffee. | 8:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I don't like it. | 8:20 |
Felix Armfield | Y'all eat more than y'alls share of crawfish down here. I think you eat all the crawfish in the world down here. | 8:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We eat a lot of it. When I was small, you would go along the road here with a net and they'd drag it there and get the crawfish out. | 8:43 |
Felix Armfield | And pull the crawfish right out of the ditch over there? | 8:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not anymore. | 8:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | You can't do that now because it's not clean. The fish are not clean anymore. | 8:49 |
Rosalind Miller | Call them mud bugs. | 8:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 8:49 |
Felix Armfield | Well, y'all certainly eat y'alls share of them down here. | 9:00 |
Rosalind Miller | Mm-hmm. | 9:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The only way I like them is boiled. | 9:12 |
Felix Armfield | Do you eat the etoufee? | 9:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, I don't eat it because I don't like it. | 9:12 |
Felix Armfield | You don't like it? What's your favorite dish, Mr. Russell? | 9:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well, gumbo. | 9:22 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you heat that gumbo, huh? | 9:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 9:26 |
Felix Armfield | Do you eat that jambalaya? | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 9:30 |
Felix Armfield | I like that too. | 9:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This is the little church what I was telling you about where— | 9:37 |
Felix Armfield | Did you use to walk to that church? | 9:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I never walked. | 9:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | His parents [indistinct 00:09:42]— | 9:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We used to more go to the New Iberia. | 9:42 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. What were you telling me about that church back there which was St. Marcellus, right? | 9:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 9:55 |
Felix Armfield | Catholic church. So, you all would walk from Avery Island to New Iberia to church? | 9:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, we'd catch a train. | 10:09 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 10:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The trains still run out here. This ship I saw by rail. | 10:11 |
Felix Armfield | Get the train in, but you said y'all used to go on Saturday night though, right? | 10:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go on Saturday evening on a train and come back Sunday or Monday. | 10:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:10:29] | 10:28 |
Felix Armfield | Who did you stay with when you went into New Iberia? | 10:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My aunt. | 10:35 |
Felix Armfield | You got an aunt there? | 10:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. Next block from my house going down there. We're getting close to Avery Island. | 10:35 |
Felix Armfield | I see all that swamp over there too. | 10:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where? | 10:35 |
Felix Armfield | Over there. | 10:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, yeah. Long years ago they called this road a plank road. | 10:36 |
Felix Armfield | Plank road? | 11:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. It was made out of planks from that end to the other end. | 11:15 |
Felix Armfield | How long ago was that would you say? | 11:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | About 75 years ago. | 11:26 |
Felix Armfield | And you used to walk this road when it was a plank road? | 11:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not me. You see that hill? | 11:31 |
Felix Armfield | Yes, sir. | 11:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They call that hill Prospect Hill. | 11:36 |
Felix Armfield | Prospect Hill? Now why is it called Prospect Hill? | 11:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They used to raise corn and [indistinct 00:11:50] on that hill. Used to farm all that, they don't farm it anymore. | 11:43 |
Felix Armfield | Now, do we need to pay to get in this gate? | 11:57 |
Nancy V. Russell | Now with [indistinct 00:12:00] in here. | 11:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | If you come with— | 11:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, well I'm going to make certain they see y'all in here then. How much does it cost to get into Avery Island though? | 12:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Fifty cents. | 12:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | Fifty cents. | 12:03 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 12:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | This is that guard. Is this the guy here? Just go on. | 12:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just go ahead. | 12:03 |
Felix Armfield | See you all. | 12:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He know me. | 12:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | Let him know that camera. | 12:04 |
Felix Armfield | Isn't that something? | 12:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | Sat right back down. | 12:04 |
Felix Armfield | He sat right back down. Mr. Russell, you the man. | 12:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go right to the left. | 12:30 |
Felix Armfield | Go left right here? | 12:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They got a camera on you there. | 12:32 |
Felix Armfield | I got a camera? Can I bring a camera? | 12:32 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | At that gate. | 12:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | They were just telling you that— | 12:32 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, they have cameras back there at that gate. I see. | 12:49 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You come through, they'll get you. All day, they're always there. | 12:51 |
Felix Armfield | So now we're heading to the Tabasco plant now. We're on Avery Island now. | 13:01 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. That's the plant over there. | 13:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | A bunch of them people driving going in. | 13:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | All them cars. | 13:04 |
Felix Armfield | This is the place, over here to the right? | 13:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. They enlarged that plant now. This part where it was. Here, they have a security guard at night down there at the gate. | 13:13 |
Felix Armfield | There are security guards at night now. | 13:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | If you don't know anyone— | 13:33 |
Felix Armfield | How do I get—Oh [indistinct 00:13:43]. | 13:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | If you don't know anyone on the island and now they won't let you through, you could come through there and tell them you were going to visit James Russell, they'll let you through. | 13:52 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 14:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a new part, addition, they put onto the plant. That's the old part. Right by them steps— | 14:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:14:16] | 14:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the old part. | 14:11 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:14:24] my daddy was when I was [indistinct 00:14:29]. I think we came when we were a senior. | 14:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | You know Desiree? | 14:46 |
Rosalind Miller | James? Oh, yeah. That's only two years older. [indistinct 00:14:46] | 14:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Her mother just came back this morning from Disneyland, but she didn't go to Disney town, but she did take them out, she went to the convention and get them things. | 14:46 |
Felix Armfield | Slow but sure, huh? | 14:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 14:57 |
Felix Armfield | We've made it here. As long as you get here. I can smell Tabasco already. | 14:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | You smell it? | 15:12 |
Rosalind Miller | Mm-hmm. | 15:12 |
Felix Armfield | You smell it? You don't? | 15:12 |
Rosalind Miller | How we going to get in it? | 15:12 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 15:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:15:35] | 15:12 |
Felix Armfield | She said she's going to give us a pass for James Russell? | 15:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. A packet. | 15:39 |
Felix Armfield | A what? | 15:39 |
Rosalind Miller | A packet. | 15:39 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, a packet. | 15:39 |
Felix Armfield | Go back out the same way we came in. Okay. | 15:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:15:53] | 15:49 |
Felix Armfield | I think it's going to pick him up because we're right both enclosed in here on top of it. Mr. Russell said he wouldn't want to talk too much no way. | 15:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I did not say that. | 16:06 |
Felix Armfield | What did you say, Mr. Russell? | 16:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I said I'm enjoying having you here as a friend to take you around. | 16:11 |
Felix Armfield | And I'm loving it. Keep straight and turn to the right. | 16:25 |
Rosalind Miller | What are these houses back here, Mr. Russell? | 16:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They call that Tango Quarters. That's where the workers lived. | 16:38 |
Felix Armfield | They call it Tango Quarters. | 16:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 16:41 |
Felix Armfield | And that's where the workers lived. | 16:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 16:41 |
Felix Armfield | Now is there a school out here on Avery Island now? | 16:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 16:41 |
Felix Armfield | So the children do get schooling out here? | 16:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Where I came up the Catholic school about nine years old. I want to show you the school I went to school in. | 17:06 |
Felix Armfield | I want to see it. | 17:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It's way back over about three or four miles setting in the woods. | 17:07 |
Felix Armfield | Really? I want to see it. | 17:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | One of the McIlhennys— | 17:18 |
Felix Armfield | One of the McIllhennys? | 17:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Her mother was a McIlhenny and she bought the old school and made a cottage out of it. They live down— | 17:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's egrets. In the evening around about seven, eight o'clock that pond over there, I'll show you, be a mass of white, probably starting their nest in that pond and hatch. In the wintertime some of them go back to South America and some stay. | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | When you hit the main road, turn left. | 18:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They're from South America. | 18:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | See where that car come out, turn right, that's where you go into the gardens. | 18:48 |
Felix Armfield | Keep straight? | 18:53 |
Nancy V. Russell | Turn right. | 18:53 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Turn right. That's where you pay five dollars and a half to get in but you won't have to pay anything with me. | 18:54 |
Felix Armfield | Now why don't I have to pay anything? | 19:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | You're with us. | 19:11 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I'm with the Russells. | 19:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just slow down. | 19:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Toot your horn. [indistinct 00:19:21] | 19:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She ignore it. That's okay. | 19:22 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, she's waving them. | 19:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He was talking about the— | 19:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:19:36] | 19:22 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, man. Now what used to be over here, Mr. Russell, in this area where we're going now? This was all farm land? | 19:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They used to have this as a pasture— | 19:52 |
Felix Armfield | Look at these big beautiful trees. | 19:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | —and they used to raise hogs and cattle out here. | 19:57 |
Felix Armfield | Out in this area here and now it's the gardens? | 20:01 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 20:04 |
Felix Armfield | But it used to be the old grazing grounds? | 20:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. They used to raise pigs and cattle out here. | 20:09 |
Felix Armfield | Now did you all actually live up in here? | 20:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, we're going to make it around about two miles from my house if you go straight. | 20:27 |
Felix Armfield | Well, you're going to show me your house, aren't you? | 20:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. At the end of this, turn right. | 20:39 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 20:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's all camellias and azaleas. | 20:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:59] knock it down. | 20:59 |
Felix Armfield | I can see why you didn't want to leave off this island, it's beautiful. | 21:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | All live oak trees. | 21:18 |
Felix Armfield | What? | 21:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Live oak trees. That's live oak. This canal will take you out to the gulf. | 21:21 |
Felix Armfield | This takes you out where? | 21:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | To the gulf. | 21:36 |
Felix Armfield | To the garden? | 21:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 21:36 |
Rosalind Miller | No, gulf. | 21:36 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, that takes you to the gulf? Oh, okay. | 21:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You're about sixty miles from the bay and about seventy-five miles from the gulf. | 21:41 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I see. | 21:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:22:05] | 21:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Now all this was marsh land. They dug that canal out and made it wider. | 22:05 |
Felix Armfield | When did they do such things as that? | 22:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That was in the '50s. No, in the '40s. When they dug out they started on this side and built a levy and they dug those ponds out and made a levy for a road. They planted those live oak trees. | 22:27 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 22:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They call this Bayou Petite Anse. | 22:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | Petite Anse on that side. | 22:34 |
Felix Armfield | And this is the Bayou Petite Anse? | 23:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 23:16 |
Felix Armfield | Does this run through Avery Island or around Avery Island? | 23:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It runs up to the bay and the gulf. This island is surrounded by water. | 23:23 |
Felix Armfield | Are there any alligators out here, Mister? | 23:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes, indeed. Where the bus stopped, that's what they was looking at. | 23:33 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? There's one. | 23:33 |
Rosalind Miller | That's a baby alligator. | 23:41 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, my God! I've never seen one up close. Look at that. Give me that camera. | 23:43 |
Rosalind Miller | I knew it. | 23:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I used to coax them out of the water. | 23:56 |
Felix Armfield | Wonder what if I got out and walked closer to him? | 24:11 |
Rosalind Miller | What, you going out? | 24:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They won't harm you. | 24:13 |
Felix Armfield | Would he stand still to let me get him? | 24:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes, indeed. Think you going to give him something to eat. | 24:13 |
Rosalind Miller | That ones a [indistinct 00:25:00]. | 24:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He thinks he has something to eat for him. That's why he ain't run. | 24:13 |
Felix Armfield | Have you guys ever seen those things up close? | 24:13 |
Aaron Bastian | Of course. | 24:13 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 24:13 |
Aaron Bastian | All the time. | 24:13 |
Felix Armfield | I've never. | 24:13 |
Rosalind Miller | You can see them in the dark too. | 24:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I caught one about four foot one night. I got in my car with him. My children were all small, about the size of him. I went in the house with the alligator. | 25:19 |
Felix Armfield | You caught one and took it in the house? | 25:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Ask my wife. | 25:37 |
Felix Armfield | How did you manhandle those things? I thought they were pretty strong. | 25:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Once you get him behind the neck he'll hit you with his tail but he can't harm me. | 25:42 |
Felix Armfield | That tail won't hurt you? | 25:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 25:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | Not a small one, I think the big ones could try. | 25:56 |
Felix Armfield | You caught one about the size of that one I was just looking at? | 25:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, about four foot long. | 25:58 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. That was a tiny one though. | 26:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 26:08 |
Felix Armfield | I want to see a big one. | 26:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | They lying on their back there. | 26:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's what those people was looking at. | 26:09 |
Felix Armfield | That was a small one, James. | 26:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I mean where that bus is stopped. | 26:09 |
Felix Armfield | Look, there's another one. | 26:20 |
Aaron Bastian | Oh yeah, that's an itty bitty baby. | 26:23 |
Felix Armfield | Is this their season that they be hatching around here? [indistinct 00:26:32] | 26:26 |
Aaron Bastian | [indistinct 00:26:32] | 26:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. That one you see there is about that long. He about three years old. | 26:31 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, he's three years old you think? | 26:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They grow a foot a year. He's a foot when he's born. | 26:45 |
Felix Armfield | I want to see a big one just lying around. | 26:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You might see one in the next lagoon. | 26:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:27:06] | 26:54 |
Felix Armfield | When you would come fishing you would eat your bait? That looks like quick sand. | 27:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a lagoon or a pond. | 27:15 |
Felix Armfield | So you could make the mistake of stepping in there if you wanted to, huh? | 27:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It's not deep. | 27:21 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, it isn't. | 27:21 |
Felix Armfield | Huh. | 27:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, about— | 27:21 |
Felix Armfield | Look at that thing right out there. | 27:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What? | 27:21 |
Felix Armfield | You've got wildlife on this thing. | 27:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What? | 27:32 |
Felix Armfield | Right there. Looks like a beaver or something. | 27:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a— | 27:34 |
Felix Armfield | Look. | 27:34 |
Aaron Bastian | Yeah, I see it. | 27:34 |
Rosalind Miller | An otter? | 27:34 |
Aaron Bastian | Otter. | 27:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 27:34 |
Aaron Bastian | A beaver? | 27:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What you call that there, a nutria rat. | 27:45 |
Felix Armfield | That's a what? | 27:47 |
Rosalind Miller | Nutria rat? | 27:48 |
Felix Armfield | A nutria rat? | 27:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 27:51 |
Felix Armfield | I don't want him, man. | 27:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This man driving— | 28:01 |
Felix Armfield | Now what was that old building right there? | 28:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | A boat house. Ever since I remember that house has been there just like it is. | 28:04 |
Felix Armfield | Was it ever operatable? | 28:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, they used to keep boats in there. There's nothing in it now. This man, he got three pairs of nutria rats. | 28:10 |
Felix Armfield | They got the what? | 28:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He got three pair of them and he brought them in and built a pen and they dug themselves out. Now they're all over from here to Texas and New Orleans. They multiply very rapidly. | 28:32 |
Felix Armfield | It's beautiful back here. | 28:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I told you that my voice is not clear. | 29:00 |
Felix Armfield | Your voice is fine, Mr. Russell. | 29:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | See there's Buddha, go up a little further. Keep going. Turn right—We done passed it, I believe. | 29:24 |
Felix Armfield | What's that? | 29:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Buddhist temple. | 29:25 |
Felix Armfield | I see. Is that the Buddhist temple back there? | 29:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 29:25 |
Felix Armfield | Can I pull down there? Can we get to— | 29:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 29:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | We'll go by it. | 29:34 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, we'll go by it? | 29:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 29:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | About a mile around. | 29:34 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, cool, so long as I can see it. | 29:35 |
Aaron Bastian | Alligators crossing. | 29:37 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, they in this thing down here, Mr. Russell? | 29:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 29:41 |
Felix Armfield | There's a lot of them down there, huh? | 29:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | But see, to somebody that doesn't know this area that could like just like solid grass out there. Now you make the mistake of stepping in there and you in trouble. | 29:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Shame on you. | 29:53 |
Felix Armfield | Them alligators are going to eat you alive. | 29:53 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 29:53 |
Nancy V. Russell | Aaron, did you want to go take a swim? (laughs) | 29:54 |
Felix Armfield | I don't even see one. | 29:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Used to have one down there, we called him Joe. | 29:54 |
Felix Armfield | Called him what? | 29:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Joe. You come in, "Come on, Joe." He'd come. | 30:20 |
Felix Armfield | Would he come? | 30:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Remember, baby, I'd coax him out of the water. He'd jump that high off the ground for a piece of bread. | 30:22 |
Rosalind Miller | Mr. Russell, was there an alligator back here, like the biggest one, named Tom? | 30:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Frank? | 30:42 |
Rosalind Miller | Frank? | 30:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Frank. | 30:46 |
Rosalind Miller | Frank? | 30:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. Frank and George. We used to have them penned up but don't have them penned up anymore. | 30:47 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Avery, you—Mr. Avery. | 31:10 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell, you lived out here all your life, huh? | 31:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 31:18 |
Felix Armfield | What end of the island were you born on? | 31:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Down in that—We're going to pass there. | 31:22 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. There's one. | 31:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where? | 31:29 |
Felix Armfield | See his head. | 31:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They usually—That's a [indistinct 00:31:37]. | 31:35 |
Felix Armfield | That's a little bigger one. Look at that. He'd eat you alive if you got in that water. | 31:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. I should had you set your speedometer. | 31:47 |
Felix Armfield | You should have what? | 32:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Set your speedometer. See how many miles we would have. | 32:05 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, to see how many miles it is to go over the whole island? | 32:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It's four miles in this garden, around. | 32:25 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, they've got a picnic area out here too? | 32:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Anywhere you want to picnic. | 32:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | It's free to come here. | 32:30 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you could just stop and picnic, huh? | 32:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 32:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Around Christmastime, this holly— | 32:42 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? This is beautiful. | 32:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She comes over, be a mass of red. A mass of red. They have the down, holly and the hybrid. Are you enjoying it? | 32:46 |
Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 33:06 |
Rosalind Miller | Take it out front or from behind? | 33:06 |
Felix Armfield | Get it from behind. Actually I'm going to get out with you so we can take it outside. I'll be right back Mr. Avery, Mr. Russell. | 33:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Every bit of it. | 33:16 |
Felix Armfield | Every bit of it. You know it all. | 33:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 33:21 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:33:25] romantic. | 33:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | As children would roam these woods. We'd get out on a Sunday and just roam these woods. | 33:21 |
Felix Armfield | I bet you did. As a child you did that, huh? | 33:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 33:37 |
Felix Armfield | You knew not to run up on top of those alligators though. | 33:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I wasn't studying about the alligators. | 33:41 |
Felix Armfield | You wasn't studying about the alligators? | 33:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. I just saw a bobcat about four years ago. There's another one— | 33:47 |
Felix Armfield | Out here on Avery Island? | 34:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 34:01 |
Felix Armfield | Where did a bobcat come from out here? | 34:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I saw one right down here. And last year I saw one— | 34:06 |
Felix Armfield | Where am I going to see the Buddhist temple? | 34:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just keep going, they'll tell you where to go. | 34:18 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, there it is. | 34:47 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right here. | 34:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You got to go over there. | 34:50 |
Felix Armfield | This is it right here, right? | 34:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, if you can get— | 34:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's the sign for the Buddha. | 34:51 |
Felix Armfield | This right here? That's it over there? | 34:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right there. | 34:51 |
Felix Armfield | Can I park and go over there? | 34:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. Is you going to sit here then? | 34:51 |
Felix Armfield | I'm going to leave the car running, just so you don't have to— | 34:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You don't have to. Put the windows down. | 34:51 |
Felix Armfield | You don't want the air conditioner? | 35:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 35:06 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, you want the air conditioner or do you want the windows down? | 35:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | Air conditioner. | 35:10 |
Aaron Bastian | Yes. | 35:10 |
Felix Armfield | Why don't we leave the air— | 35:15 |
Felix Armfield | How did the Buddhist temple get here? | 35:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Some Chinaman give to Mr. McIlhenny and they brought it by train. | 35:18 |
Felix Armfield | Why did they give it to Mr. McIlhenny, he wasn't Buddhist? | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hm? | 35:28 |
Felix Armfield | He wasn't Buddhist, was he? | 35:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 35:29 |
Felix Armfield | He was Catholic, wasn't he? What happened? You know the story. | 35:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No— | 35:34 |
Felix Armfield | They had all stolen that temple, didn't they? | 35:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I don't know. I can't say it. | 35:36 |
Felix Armfield | You don't want to say, okay. Old family friends, I understand. | 35:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I can't say. This is Wisteria Arch. | 35:50 |
Rosalind Miller | Wisteria Arch. | 35:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, this is Wisteria. | 35:51 |
Felix Armfield | And what's that? | 35:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | Clones. [indistinct 00:35:57] | 35:55 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. We going this way? | 35:57 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, this way. Getting close to my house now. | 35:58 |
Felix Armfield | Getting close to your house now? | 36:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 36:09 |
Felix Armfield | You actually lived all back up here in the gardens like this? | 36:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 36:14 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, man. | 36:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I saw a bobcat right down here— | 36:18 |
Felix Armfield | You saw a bobcat? | 36:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | —one Sunday morning. | 36:20 |
Felix Armfield | Did you catch him? | 36:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | When I got about as far as from here to that car he hauled it. Man, I used to come down here on Sunday morning and in about half an hour, I'd kill me eight big rabbits. | 36:29 |
Felix Armfield | Come down here and this is where you would go hunting? | 36:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just walking through or riding through in the truck. | 36:54 |
Felix Armfield | Look at that. | 36:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the sunken garden. You go through there like Needle's Eye in Tennessee. | 36:59 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 36:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | They called it Palm. | 36:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, the Palm garden and you come out on the hill up here. | 37:00 |
Felix Armfield | When they said Avery Island I just didn't picture it as being anything quite this beautiful. Now, how far are the salt mines away? | 37:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We're going there. | 37:35 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, you're going to make sure you show me everything, aren't you? | 37:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 37:37 |
Felix Armfield | Remember now, your son said I couldn't keep you out late. He said you had a curfew. | 37:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This island consists of oil wells, the oil pressure oil well— | 37:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:38:15] you have a curfew too. | 38:15 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 38:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | It's no later than [indistinct 00:38:16]. | 38:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oil pressure. By that gate there, that's where I worked. You won't see the big house over there for a while. | 38:15 |
Felix Armfield | The big house where you worked? | 38:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 38:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | I can see it from here [indistinct 00:38:25]. | 38:20 |
Felix Armfield | Look at those limbs on that tree. Can I go on through? | 38:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. You'll see it when you get in the clear. | 38:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | There's the house that we— | 38:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:38:39] get down, further down. | 38:35 |
Felix Armfield | In this? | 38:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There it is. | 38:35 |
Felix Armfield | Does anyone live there now? | 38:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 38:45 |
Felix Armfield | Really? So it's absolutely doing nothing but deteriorating, huh? | 38:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Isn't it? | 38:51 |
Felix Armfield | This was for the last family that you worked for? | 38:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 38:55 |
Felix Armfield | That was the daughter, right? | 38:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 38:56 |
Felix Armfield | She was McIlhenny? | 38:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She was a McIlhenny originally. | 38:58 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 38:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She married a Simmons. | 38:58 |
Felix Armfield | And none of them stay here now? | 39:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 39:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:39:12] | 39:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Actually, in other words— | 39:10 |
Felix Armfield | When can I get a picture of it? | 39:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You will. There's this type of house. | 39:20 |
Felix Armfield | Whose house? | 39:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Mine. | 39:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, he said could he get a picture of the big house. | 39:20 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, that's your house. Let me go back there and get a picture of that big house. | 39:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We can go up to it. | 39:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | We'll go around there. | 39:33 |
Felix Armfield | We can go back around? | 39:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 39:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Drive straight then. | 39:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just keep going straight. | 39:33 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, you know what you're doing, I don't. | 39:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That house, in other words, it's a four-story building— | 39:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:39:49] under her tree, sit on that limb. | 39:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They have thirty rooms in that house. | 39:33 |
Felix Armfield | In that big house? | 39:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:39:56] she going to look at that picture. | 39:57 |
Felix Armfield | You didn't clean that place though, did you? | 39:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, they had a bunch of them. | 40:00 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 40:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go in—Yeah. | 40:03 |
Felix Armfield | Where are we going now? | 40:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go on down there then come back. | 40:06 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now I want to see your house too, Mr. Russell. | 40:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We'll be going back up there. See that? | 40:11 |
Felix Armfield | That's the Bird City down there? | 40:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Bird City. A mess of white, all that's covered. | 40:17 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:40:26] all white, white, it's coming in. | 40:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right there, that's the old plant? | 40:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | Offices. | 40:28 |
Felix Armfield | That's the old plant? That looks like an old big plantation house. | 40:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's nothing but storage and offices now in that building. | 40:35 |
Felix Armfield | And it used to be the old plant? | 40:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Now keep straight to your right. We're going by where we used to live. | 40:45 |
Felix Armfield | A lovely entrance to your house. | 41:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | Are you going to write a book of this? | 41:25 |
Felix Armfield | Eventually, I may. | 41:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | Will we get one? | 41:31 |
Felix Armfield | If I write one, sure. | 41:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Okay. That's where we lived at. | 41:39 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, look at this. How quaint, no wonder—Look at that thing right there in the yard, that big bird. | 41:40 |
Nancy V. Russell | A peacock. | 41:49 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a peacock. | 41:50 |
Felix Armfield | Peacocks? | 41:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 41:50 |
Felix Armfield | Can I go in your driveway, Mr. Russell? | 41:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 41:54 |
Felix Armfield | Is this still your driveway? | 41:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Always was. | 41:55 |
Felix Armfield | Always will be. | 41:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This house— | 42:01 |
Felix Armfield | Oh man, I see why you didn't want to come to New Iberia. | 42:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This house was given to me as long as I wanted to live there from Mrs. McIlhenny, first McIlhenny. And she died, same thing with her daughter, that was my house as long as I wanted to live here. When her daughter died, her daughter's son told me the same thing. | 42:09 |
Felix Armfield | So the whole family, they wanted you to stay here. You had worked for all of them though, hadn't you? | 42:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 42:41 |
Felix Armfield | They gave you this house, did they build this house for you? | 42:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | The house was already built but they added on to it. | 42:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And it burnt and that part there, the hall and dining through the hall. We have two bedrooms, 15 X 15. One bedroom on the other side 14 X 21. Living room 16 X 21. Dining room 11 X 14. And the kitchen 11 X 14, I think. We have a bath on this end, a bath on that end. | 42:55 |
Felix Armfield | You've got good memories to remember all those figures. Now, do you feel like letting me get a picture of you at this house? | 43:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well, if you want to, you the boss. | 43:55 |
Felix Armfield | No, no. You the boss. Okay, hold on and we'll get a picture of you and Mrs. Russell up at the house. | 43:59 |
Felix Armfield | These little sheds out here. | 44:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Garages. | 44:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | A wash house. | 44:10 |
Aaron Bastian | That's the wash house? | 44:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm | 44:12 |
Felix Armfield | And nobody lives in this big mansion now? Man. | 44:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | Nobody lives there. Like three, these houses, they all died and nobody lives in them. | 44:13 |
Felix Armfield | Look at this. And when you drove a car, Mr. Russell, where did you park the car? | 44:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Stop here, you can't go through. | 44:36 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 44:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The gate is locked. Right there, stop. | 44:37 |
Felix Armfield | Right in here? | 44:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Unless you want to turn around and be headed down. They fixed all them holes there. | 44:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Them what? | 45:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Them holes, you remember? Was there now? | 45:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | They fixed them. | 45:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, you don't see them? [indistinct 00:45:11] I see. | 45:07 |
Felix Armfield | That's a wasp nest. | 45:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Okay, back up some now. I used to keep all the hedges trimmed down about— | 45:26 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, you used to keep these hedges trimmed? | 45:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | About that size. They're gone now. They was trimmed once. | 45:30 |
Felix Armfield | Really? You going to get out? | 45:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You said you wanted a picture. | 45:44 |
Felix Armfield | I want a picture of this—So, can we get around to the front? | 45:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, go straight. | 45:48 |
Felix Armfield | Do we need to drive around there? | 45:49 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 45:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's the back to the house there. | 45:51 |
Felix Armfield | This is the back? | 45:57 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 45:57 |
Felix Armfield | This side door entrance, that was the way you got into the house, Mr. Russell? | 45:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right, I had a key to it. | 46:00 |
Felix Armfield | You had a key to this side door here? | 46:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 46:05 |
Felix Armfield | Did you use the other entrance? Could you go in from the front? | 46:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, but this was locked— | 46:09 |
Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. So, you would go— | 46:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | —and I had a key to the back entrance. | 46:13 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, so you had a key to the side and the back entrance? You said you were about sixteen when you started keeping the grounds for these people? | 46:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Not here. | 46:30 |
Felix Armfield | Now, what were the grounds and the gardens that you were keeping for them? Right out in here? | 46:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not at this place. | 46:35 |
Felix Armfield | Not at this place. | 46:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | One over, next hill. | 46:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. How old were you when you came to this place to work? | 46:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I came here in '45. | 46:44 |
Felix Armfield | Right after the war or during the war? | 46:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | During the war. | 46:48 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And you came here to work? | 46:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 46:53 |
Felix Armfield | Did your father work at this place? | 46:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, he worked at the plant. | 46:56 |
Felix Armfield | Are there still furnishings and things in the house? | 0:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 0:05 |
Felix Armfield | Everything's still in there? | 0:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Some of them, but not all of it. | 0:13 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I see. This must have been a beautiful house when you worked here. | 0:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, yeah, it was. On the [indistinct 00:00:29], on that porch, all the workers came up here and had a drink. | 0:19 |
Felix Armfield | On this porch right here? | 0:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:31 |
Felix Armfield | Everybody that worked here at the big house? | 0:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Everybody that worked for the company. | 0:35 |
Felix Armfield | They would come here to this porch? Was that the Black workers? | 0:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | White and Blacks were all together. | 0:41 |
Felix Armfield | Really? They'd all came out here and had drinks on this porch? | 0:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 0:41 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:00:49]. | 0:41 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:01:02] his father died? | 0:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. Go and look, peek in there and see what you— | 0:41 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. I want you to walk up there near the door with me, too. Okay. So now we're going to go peek in the building. In this house, rather. It's not a building. Now what was this part right here, [indistinct 00:01:27]? Look at all those deer antlers. | 1:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's what I want you to see. | 1:31 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 1:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's what I want you to see. | 1:34 |
Felix Armfield | Now what was this back here? Was this like the back porch or something? | 1:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, front porch. There were— | 1:38 |
Felix Armfield | This was the front porch? | 1:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There were screen porch, same size on the second floor. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 1:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And the sun porch is over on the other side. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | Come on up closer then. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | Roz! They must— | 1:42 |
Rosalind Miller | They going all [indistinct 00:02:01]. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | They done gone around. They left us. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:02:10]. | 1:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And the other way is closing in. | 1:42 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:02:18]. | 1:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Okay. | 1:42 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:02:26]. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, man. | 1:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's always— | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | It was quite a fancy porch there. | 2:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's all antlers were— | 2:35 |
Felix Armfield | Look at the furnishings. | 2:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | From the hunters. He used to hunt deer. | 2:40 |
Felix Armfield | That's something. | 2:43 |
Rosalind Miller | We went around to the back. | 2:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The side porch, sun porch. | 2:51 |
Felix Armfield | This is the front porch, he said. | 2:53 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah, there's something in the back. | 2:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the sun porch. | 2:55 |
Rosalind Miller | The sun porch. | 2:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And there were another porch just like this one. | 2:55 |
Felix Armfield | Hold this and let me go look at the front. | 2:58 |
Rosalind Miller | Okay. | 2:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Over this same side. | 2:58 |
Felix Armfield | I'm going to look in the windows, Mr. Russell. Where is Aaron? | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | Around the back. | 3:11 |
Felix Armfield | Go here? | 3:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, just keep going til you get to the— | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:03:12]. Golly, this is big. | 3:11 |
Felix Armfield | Aaron? | 3:11 |
Aaron Bastian | Yeah. | 3:11 |
Felix Armfield | Come back with me. | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | How many people it took to clean this house? | 3:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:12] Yeah, he was [indistinct 00:03:12]. He's alone, by himself. | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | For real? | 3:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | For his son and me, about a month we did a general clean. | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | Once a month? | 3:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, once a year. | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 3:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We have a summer rug down now. Take them up, put the winter rugs down. But they all down now still, never been taken out. | 3:11 |
Rosalind Miller | So they had summer and winter rugs. | 3:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You cleaned all these windows, washed all the white things. | 3:12 |
Rosalind Miller | And repainted once a year? | 3:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, that house never been painted since it was built, the shingles. | 3:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh I see, the shingles, yeah. | 4:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It was built in 1914. They were rebuilding. | 4:22 |
Rosalind Miller | How many rooms in there? | 4:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Thirty-one rooms. | 4:37 |
Rosalind Miller | Thirty-one? | 4:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Let's see— One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven beds. And two beds downstairs in the basement. | 4:45 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, they have a basement. | 5:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Mm-hmm—That's where we lived when I was a boy. | 5:09 |
Rosalind Miller | In the basement? You used to live in the basement? What, when you were small? | 5:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. [indistinct 00:05:26]. | 5:23 |
Speaker 5 | How many children did these people have? | 5:25 |
Rosalind Miller | Wait, they said there's a basement here, and he and Ms. Nancy used to live in the basement. | 5:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | When I was a boy. | 5:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | They first slept upstairs in one of the bedrooms. And then— | 5:33 |
Felix Armfield | They let you have a bedroom here in the big house? | 5:38 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 5:41 |
Felix Armfield | Just you and Mr Russell, I'm sure. | 5:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | And my son, my youngest son, there was only three of us at home. | 5:45 |
Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 5:47 |
Nancy V. Russell | And then when the storm would come, she wanted us to come stay upstairs with her, during the storm. And would sleep in one of the beds upstairs. In a room. | 5:51 |
Felix Armfield | Man, you was the man. So now what about the basement? You all lived in the basement? | 6:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. [indistinct 00:06:13] | 6:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, I didn't want— | 6:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:06:15] downstairs in the basement [indistinct 00:06:19] | 6:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We had a bath, and a living room, and a bedroom. | 6:20 |
Felix Armfield | Down in the basement of this house? | 6:21 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm— | 6:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Air condition. Window air condition. | 6:23 |
Aaron Bastian | Really? | 6:28 |
Felix Armfield | You all have left me speechless. I don't know what to say. | 6:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The only reason I [indistinct 00:06:36]— | 6:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | And I'd get my coffee- | 6:33 |
Felix Armfield | Is that door locked? | 6:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 6:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | I'd get my coffee every morning in bed. | 6:38 |
Rosalind Miller | What? | 6:40 |
Nancy V. Russell | In the basement. She'd send my husband to bring it. When he had to go to the store, she would come and bring it herself. | 6:41 |
Felix Armfield | She would actually bring you coffee, to the bed? Now what did you do here at the big house? Did you work? | 6:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She didn't work here. | 6:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, I worked at— | 6:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She worked for [indistinct 00:06:58]. | 6:55 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, at her sister's house. | 6:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 7:00 |
Felix Armfield | Had they both married into this family? | 7:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | They were both [indistinct 00:07:08] | 7:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They were McIlhenny— | 7:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | They were in this family [indistinct 00:07:09] | 7:03 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, they were McIlhenny children. | 7:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 7:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 7:03 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now the one that live here, was she in face married? | 7:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. Husband died in the 40s. | 7:14 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now that's not the last one that you worked for, is it? | 7:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 7:22 |
Felix Armfield | That's the last one you worked for? | 7:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 7:24 |
Speaker 7 | [indistinct 00:07:28] telephone [indistinct 00:07:29]. | 7:24 |
Felix Armfield | Were there ever telephones here? | 7:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes, indeed. They were telephone down in our room we were living in. | 7:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | I think they had a telephone too. | 7:54 |
Felix Armfield | They had a telephone? | 7:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, [indistinct 00:07:55]. | 7:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Don't take everything you hear about the South. | 7:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:07:55] Don't believe everything you hear about the South. | 7:54 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. Okay. | 7:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm not exaggerating. | 7:54 |
Felix Armfield | I know you're not. | 7:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm telling you the whole truth. | 7:58 |
Felix Armfield | I know, that's why I wanted to do this tour with you, so it all will come out. | 7:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No use of me going on, saying these people were mean and all that. No. | 8:04 |
Felix Armfield | You didn't experience that. Well good. Good. Now this was that back entrance, that side entrance, right? | 8:13 |
Rosalind Miller | Golly. What part is this right here? | 8:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The front porch. | 8:20 |
Rosalind Miller | The front porch. | 8:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Front porch. And you had a screen porch. This room here was a library, next room over's the hall, next was parlor. | 8:34 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, a parlor? | 8:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And the next was dinning room that you go in back, pantry, the kitchen, and a dinning area for the workers, and a bedroom. | 8:48 |
Rosalind Miller | Golly. This is pretty. | 8:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The original house, in 1914. They rebuilt. | 8:59 |
Rosalind Miller | Does this one look like the original house? | 9:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 9:20 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 9:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | But not as large. | 9:20 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 9:24 |
Speaker 5 | The original house is bigger? | 9:27 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-huh. | 9:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This house is much larger. | 9:28 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, this house is bigger. | 9:46 |
Rosalind Miller | So you didn't really have as bad. Because they say, sometimes some people you talk to had it bad, but not everybody had it bad. | 9:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. We was treated real nicely. We didn't have to suffer for nothing. We didn't get a beating. [indistinct 00:10:13] but what did we get matched up to it. | 9:53 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. So way back then, did a lot of Blacks your age, did they have problems? Because Papa said he didn't really have any problems with Whites. | 10:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 10:34 |
Rosalind Miller | There weren't too many problems, like in the 20s and the 30s? | 10:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. With the white children, they come here from [indistinct 00:10:48], the family moved here. They tried to bully, but we [indistinct 00:10:58]. | 10:54 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, they couldn't bully y'all, huh? | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, no. And the beautiful part of it, this man, Mr. McIlhenny, regardless if you were White or Black, if you were right, you were right. | 11:00 |
Rosalind Miller | Golly. In New Iberia, when did they start having problems? They said there was a Dr. Dorsey? In the 40s? What happened with that, with Dr. Dorsey? | 11:21 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. They started integrating. | 11:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. And what happened when they started integrating? | 11:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They ran him out of town, he and Dr. William. | 11:39 |
Felix Armfield | He and Dr. Williams? | 11:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Dr. [indistinct 00:11:49]. | 11:47 |
Rosalind Miller | Dr. [indistinct 00:11:51]. Why, because they didn't want the Black doctors in town? Or they had done something? | 11:49 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They hadn't did anything but try to get up a welding shop, teach them how to weld, do [indistinct 00:12:14] and all that. | 11:57 |
Rosalind Miller | And they didn't like that. | 12:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 12:19 |
Rosalind Miller | Some of the Whites didn't like that? | 12:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm going to tell you a little story, believe me. | 12:22 |
Felix Armfield | We don't have any choice but to believe you. Tell us, we'll believe you. | 12:29 |
Felix Armfield | We're sitting at your footstool, right now. | 12:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | 1931, I think it was, when the store there, the High Water. They used to give you flour, meat, corn meal and all that stuff. And [indistinct 00:13:05] came out here with that stuff. Mr. McIlhenny store and would go back and give it to other people. His people, he could take care of them. | 12:36 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. All right. So they were coming out here to give it to the people who were working here, on Avery Island. And Mr. McIlhenny would tell them no, he would take care of his own people. | 13:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 13:29 |
Felix Armfield | And to give it to the other people in New Iberia, who would need it more so. | 13:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 13:33 |
Felix Armfield | All right, Mr. McIlhenny. Oh well, let's get to the salt mines, you all. | 13:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Let's see, go over the salt mine, then, in the pepper field. | 13:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 13:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There's a [indistinct 00:13:53] | 13:52 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:13:53] next week off. | 13:52 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh yeah, for sure. | 13:52 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:14:05] you, uh-uh. | 14:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What he said? | 14:10 |
Felix Armfield | Hmm? | 14:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What'd he say? | 14:10 |
Rosalind Miller | Mr. Patterson. | 14:10 |
Felix Armfield | We were going to talk to Mr. Patterson later on today, but we want to get this with you. I can reschedule with Mr. Patterson. | 14:12 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I should have told you. | 14:21 |
Felix Armfield | We've got time, we've got plenty of time. Don't you work about time. | 14:24 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-huh. I'm excited. | 14:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hmm? | 14:25 |
Rosalind Miller | We got enough time. | 14:25 |
Felix Armfield | We on your time. Wouldn't you rather see the salt mines than the pepper fields? | 14:30 |
Rosalind Miller | Yes, I'd rather see them salt mines than the pepper fields. | 14:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | where is my wife? | 14:38 |
Felix Armfield | She's in the car. | 14:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | How do you know she in there? | 14:40 |
Felix Armfield | She didn't leave you. If she hasn't left you all these years, you don't think she'd take off now, do you? | 14:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | no. | 14:46 |
Rosalind Miller | How long have y'all been married, Mr. Russell? | 14:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Sixty-one years. | 14:51 |
Felix Armfield | Sixty-one years. | 14:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 14:53 |
Felix Armfield | That's real love affair. | 14:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Got to be, when you [indistinct 00:15:13]. | 14:56 |
Felix Armfield | Hold his hand. | 15:13 |
Rosalind Miller | All right. | 15:13 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:15:13] | 15:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Now all this is kitchen here. | 15:13 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh that's the kitchen? | 15:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And back there, that's our dining. | 15:13 |
Rosalind Miller | This is where the servants would eat? | 15:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 15:20 |
Felix Armfield | I don't want to get mud on you. | 15:20 |
Rosalind Miller | You heard that, [indistinct 00:15:28]? | 15:26 |
Felix Armfield | What's that? | 15:27 |
Rosalind Miller | This is the kitchen, and this back room is where the servants would eat. This back room. | 15:28 |
Felix Armfield | In that back room over there? | 15:33 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 15:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There's the screen porch there. | 15:35 |
Rosalind Miller | With the screen porch. | 15:38 |
Felix Armfield | And this was the kitchen? | 15:39 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-huh. | 15:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 15:42 |
Felix Armfield | Now you didn't in fact cook for the family? | 15:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 15:44 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. But you ate back there with the rest of the servants, right? | 15:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 15:48 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 15:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I didn't know you smoke. | 15:54 |
Felix Armfield | Unfortunately. | 16:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I quit about four years ago. | 16:03 |
Felix Armfield | You smoked up until four years ago? Did too. What brand did you smoke? | 16:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Chesterfield. | 16:12 |
Felix Armfield | Chesterfield. That's a real man cigarette. | 16:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And I quit cigarettes, went to pipe and cigar. | 16:14 |
Felix Armfield | You don't do that now, do you? | 16:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, I quit all together. | 16:14 |
Felix Armfield | All together, okay. | 16:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | But I don't see why I was smoking. I never learned how to inhale. | 16:27 |
Felix Armfield | You never did learn how to inhale? You would puff and blow right out. | 16:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 16:36 |
Felix Armfield | You were smoking, strictly for the sensation of smoking. | 16:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Because I saw the smoke. | 16:46 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 16:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 16:47 |
Felix Armfield | Well you know back in North Carolina, we were supplying you all with all those cigarettes down here in Louisiana. | 16:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 16:54 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, yes. Cigarettes were being made, packed right there in North Carolina. | 16:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Is that so? | 16:59 |
Felix Armfield | We're the tobacco capital of the world. | 17:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well, good. Not for me anymore. I quit. | 17:10 |
Felix Armfield | I don't blame you. I don't blame you at all. Looks like they had their own fire hose back here too. | 17:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, I had one in my yard. | 17:20 |
Felix Armfield | I saw it in your yard too. | 17:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 17:24 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:17:30] | 17:24 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:17:32] White. | 17:24 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:17:33] yeah. | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What's that? | 17:38 |
Felix Armfield | And a bee hive over there, in the corner of that house. | 17:38 |
Rosalind Miller | You have like a bee hive. | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Been there for years. | 17:38 |
Rosalind Miller | It has? | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Got one right in that corner right there too. | 17:44 |
Felix Armfield | Glad I didn't mess with them. | 17:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They won't do anything. You can get [indistinct 00:18:00] with them. | 17:46 |
Rosalind Miller | You want to bring your walker to the—? | 17:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, you can take that. | 17:59 |
Rosalind Miller | You want to— Okay. He said put his walker in the car right now. | 18:02 |
Felix Armfield | Is it going to make it without it? Glad you got down at the big house there. Because you told some fascinating stories back there. I bet this was a nice place to be sitting, out under these shade trees. | 18:06 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:18:21] | 18:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | A lot of people— | 18:21 |
Felix Armfield | What did you do when you weren't chauffeuring for the family, Mr. Russell? | 18:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Work on the flower bed. | 18:31 |
Felix Armfield | In the flower beds? So you kept the grounds. | 18:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 18:38 |
Felix Armfield | And these were just car garages here? | 18:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the original garage. | 18:41 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 18:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | But this, they had a four car garage. | 18:46 |
Felix Armfield | I see. | 18:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They had an upstairs on it. | 18:46 |
Felix Armfield | And did they own four cars? | 18:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes. | 18:57 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. You had keys to all four of them? | 19:01 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They never put a key. Probably in the garage was the key. I never put my key, while I was living here. | 19:03 |
Felix Armfield | What'd you do? | 19:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Leave it in the car. | 19:06 |
Felix Armfield | Well I guess nobody came back here but you all no way. | 19:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And it'd get dark around- | 19:23 |
Felix Armfield | Now where did the other servants live, Mr. Russell? | 19:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Down in the village. | 19:26 |
Felix Armfield | Down in the village? | 19:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, my brother live out [indistinct 00:19:36], over in that church. | 19:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | They all did. Almost every one of them. | 19:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Two, Meena, my sister-in-law. | 19:35 |
Nancy V. Russell | I remember [indistinct 00:19:45]. | 19:35 |
Felix Armfield | I have a cousin, [indistinct 00:19:45] Chicago. | 19:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:02] niece. | 20:02 |
Felix Armfield | Have a cousin in Chicago? | 20:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You're turning right there. | 20:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:08] she calls [indistinct 00:20:10]. | 20:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She loved that tree so much. This way. | 20:14 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, we're going back this way? | 20:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. One way in and one way out. That's the way the island is. | 20:17 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:24]. | 20:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 20:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:24] | 20:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You didn't see it? | 20:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:20:36] | 20:24 |
Felix Armfield | Mrs. Russell, you have a key to the gate? To Avery Island. | 20:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | I have one, all the children have them. | 20:42 |
Felix Armfield | Oh my goodness. | 20:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She has a picture of that tree, she loves it so much. | 20:43 |
Felix Armfield | It's a beautiful tree. | 20:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | She had it enlarged. | 20:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:21:00] so she can look at it [indistinct 00:21:00]. | 20:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 21:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My son, Rufus, got married under that tree. | 21:01 |
Felix Armfield | Who got married under the tree? | 21:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My son, Rufus. | 21:09 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 21:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes, and it's a beautiful picture. | 21:11 |
Felix Armfield | I bet it was a beautiful wedding. | 21:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My daughter, Robin and Mattie, got married in the yard. | 21:16 |
Rosalind Miller | For real? | 21:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Mary Louise got married— | 21:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | Got married in the yard, she had the reception in here. | 21:27 |
Felix Armfield | At the bid house, in the yard? | 21:32 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | In my house. | 21:34 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, in your yard. Oh, okay. | 21:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That lady used to go to horse races, and she'd leave, tell us to get our friends and— | 21:47 |
Nancy V. Russell | And our family. | 21:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And our family, and have a party in that house. | 21:55 |
Felix Armfield | In the big house? | 21:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. As I was telling you, don't take everything you hear about the South. | 21:59 |
Felix Armfield | Well you certainly have destroyed that, if we had any bad thoughts about the South. | 22:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | They consider us as part of the family. | 22:24 |
Felix Armfield | I see. | 22:27 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My grandmother met her nurse while in labor, the mother, what's his name? | 22:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | Rufus? | 22:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. [indistinct 00:22:47], she nursed him. My daddy and him were the same age. | 22:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, so she nursed one of the Avery babies, huh? | 22:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 22:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | She nursed on her [indistinct 00:23:03]. | 23:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We was kin to them. | 23:04 |
Felix Armfield | And that was your mama who did that? | 23:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, my grandma. | 23:19 |
Felix Armfield | Your grandmother. | 23:19 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Russell's side. This is horseshoe camellia. See, it's shaped like. | 23:19 |
Felix Armfield | It sure is. And this is called horseshoe— Camille? | 23:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Camellia ring. | 23:34 |
Felix Armfield | Camellia ring. | 23:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | They're camellias, and they bloom so pretty. | 23:34 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 23:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'll tell you a little story about [indistinct 00:23:57]. | 23:35 |
Felix Armfield | Please do. | 23:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I came through here one evening in the winter time, you know you get dark early. I got stuck in there, man, couldn't get out. Tried and tried. I said, "Well, I'mma walk." I waked from there to my house. | 24:01 |
Felix Armfield | You got stuck in this drive down here? | 24:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | He had taken my to town, I had to go to a meeting, and then one of the children got to take me back. So when I got back, he told me about, "I left my car with [indistinct 00:24:38]." And he always said he couldn't walk. You'd tell him to walk, he didn't. He'd go, "Oh, no. Can't walk that far." He walked from here, to our house. He told me— | 24:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I didn't walk that. | 24:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | He said, "I didn't walk." You said, "God waked me." | 24:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's true. | 24:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | I tease him a lot. | 24:52 |
Felix Armfield | How did you ever get the car out of there? | 24:57 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I just left it there, and the next morning, the boys came, working the garden, they got my key and they pulled it out. | 24:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | "I didn't walk, God walked me." | 25:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well never used a lie, I told the truth. I was walking with a cane at that time. | 25:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Man it ever get dark down at here at night. | 25:36 |
Felix Armfield | You don't want to be down here. | 25:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You'll never get out. I'll get out, but not you. | 25:43 |
Felix Armfield | Shoot, I wouldn't even look at that ramp. I wouldn't even try to be down here at dark. You would get out simply because you would know where you were going. | 25:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yep. Come in, you have to keep right. Come out, all you have to keep right. All the time. Now we're right back to the main highway. | 25:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:25:57] tell him to stop at the store [indistinct 00:25:57] see you at the gate. | 25:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:25:57], some [indistinct 00:25:57]? | 25:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | Huh? | 25:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There's some [indistinct 00:25:57], that's right. | 25:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh yeah, [indistinct 00:26:37]. | 25:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | He can stop if he want. Want to look at this souvenir? | 26:36 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I've been in this souvenir shop. | 26:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 26:44 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah, I've been in it. We just couldn't come out into the gardens. | 26:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | How long ago? | 26:49 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, the first week that we got here, someone brought us out here to the souvenir shop. | 26:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:26:58] table and things like that. | 26:57 |
Felix Armfield | I'm going to come back here and go to the Tabasco Country Store. | 27:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's the [indistinct 00:27:05]. | 27:03 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. I've been in there. | 27:05 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, you couldn't [indistinct 00:27:14] That's your [indistinct 00:27:16]. | 27:06 |
Felix Armfield | Now what used to be all out here, Mr— | 27:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a pasture. | 27:18 |
Felix Armfield | This was all still pasture. | 27:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right, before— | 27:22 |
Felix Armfield | Before it became this big tourist attraction. | 27:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Full of cattle and all. | 27:27 |
Felix Armfield | And the grazed all out here? | 27:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | Tell him the time— | 27:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm showing— | 27:32 |
Felix Armfield | Go right. | 27:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | As an old man— | 27:37 |
Felix Armfield | And this says [indistinct 00:27:41], but I'm with Mr. Russell, so I can go right. | 27:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Drive around— | 27:41 |
Felix Armfield | I feel so privileged today. We're going places we wouldn't be able to go. Now where we headed, now, to the salt mines or to the pepper fields? | 27:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Salt mines. | 27:53 |
Felix Armfield | To the salt mines. | 27:53 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We have to come back— | 27:56 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:28:03] another tape. | 28:02 |
Rosalind Miller | You've used— Okay. | 28:03 |
Felix Armfield | I'm on the second side. It's not full yet, but I don't want to get run out and miss anything that Mr. Russell was saying. Now has this road always been paved, Mr. Russell? | 28:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. They paved that [indistinct 00:28:24] in '50. | 28:20 |
Felix Armfield | Did you ever have to use horses and buggies out here? | 28:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, that's the only way they get off [indistinct 00:28:33]. You see, that's were— | 28:30 |
Felix Armfield | That's the entrance to your house, right there. | 28:34 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. That's the old place. That white— | 28:37 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:28:43] this one I saw. | 28:42 |
Felix Armfield | Do they call this place McIlhenny? | 28:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | Are we going back to the house now? | 29:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | McIlhenny. | 29:00 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:29:01] | 29:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's where McIlhenny comes and [indistinct 00:29:01] Avery— | 29:00 |
Felix Armfield | The Avery company is back here, huh? | 29:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, keep going. | 29:02 |
Felix Armfield | Keep going, that's the Marsh House, what's that? | 29:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My parents— | 29:08 |
Felix Armfield | You had your own post office on Avery Island. | 29:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 29:11 |
Felix Armfield | Does is still working though? | 29:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, yes. | 29:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | I worked— | 29:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yes, sir. | 29:14 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island had its own post office? | 29:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 29:21 |
Felix Armfield | You all were in business out here. No wonder you didn't want to come to New Iberia. This place is beautiful. | 29:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Now that's where White children school was. | 29:32 |
Felix Armfield | That's where what now? | 29:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | School for the White children. | 29:40 |
Nancy V. Russell | School for the White children. | 29:41 |
Felix Armfield | That lived out here on Avery Island? | 29:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 29:43 |
Felix Armfield | I want to get a picture of that. | 29:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's one of the McIlhenny home [indistinct 00:29:50]. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | But this was the school for the White children. When was the school for the White children? | 29:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hmm? | 29:54 |
Felix Armfield | When did it become a home? Rather than a school. | 29:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It integrated in '60. | 29:57 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, in integration, but before that, this is where the White children went to school? | 30:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 30:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:30:24] hasn't been on the island in so long, she wouldn't know if [indistinct 00:30:27]. | 30:25 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-uh, [indistinct 00:30:28] ain't been here in a long time. | 30:26 |
Nancy V. Russell | For years. | 30:28 |
Felix Armfield | I need that other mo. | 30:34 |
Rosalind Miller | Where is it? | 30:35 |
Felix Armfield | It's in that bag, wherever the bag is. The paper bag. | 30:37 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 30:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where's it at? | 30:41 |
Felix Armfield | Is it on the floor someplace? | 30:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 30:46 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 30:48 |
Rosalind Miller | I think I [indistinct 00:30:49] we put it up under the [indistinct 00:30:49]. Yeah. I got you. | 30:48 |
Felix Armfield | Hey, I got a role of film in here. | 30:53 |
Rosalind Miller | No, we'll make sure to— uh-uh, that's the one you've already used. | 31:04 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, this is the one that— | 31:06 |
Rosalind Miller | Look. | 31:07 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, that's right. | 31:08 |
Rosalind Miller | Careful now. This is the one with the Russells. If I could just get the pen to make a little mark on it. There, that's a mark. | 31:10 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Just hold this back there in the bag, and I'll know that in the bag is the Russells. | 31:20 |
Rosalind Miller | You sure? | 31:24 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. I don't have anything else in that bag. Right? | 31:25 |
Rosalind Miller | No. | 31:27 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Right? You looking at me like— | 31:27 |
Rosalind Miller | Because I thought you had put all the ones you've used in the glove compartment. | 31:39 |
Felix Armfield | No, because I don't want to confuse that with the one that's in there. | 31:42 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, okay. Got you. | 31:45 |
Felix Armfield | You see what I'm saying? | 31:45 |
Rosalind Miller | I was lost, I'm following. Now this is the new tape, when you need it, right? | 31:53 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. And this little pink house here was the— | 31:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | White school. | 32:03 |
Rosalind Miller | So where did the Blacks go to school? | 32:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just over. | 32:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | Further up [indistinct 00:32:11]. | 32:04 |
Rosalind Miller | He's going to tell up where the Blacks went to school. | 32:04 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, they're breaking between. | 32:15 |
Rosalind Miller | So when integragtion came, what? All the children went to this school? | 32:20 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 32:24 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, okay. | 32:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, this one over here. | 32:24 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, they went to the Black school. | 32:28 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, they— | 32:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | They went to this school, but they built another school for Black and White. | 32:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Avery Island Elementary? | 32:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 32:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 32:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, okay. | 32:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There, there's no [indistinct 00:32:43] built there, [indistinct 00:32:43] or White— | 32:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | My mother, she said they said when they integrate— | 32:36 |
Rosalind Miller | They built a new school for the Whites and the Blacks. | 32:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | They built a new school. | 32:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They were already built. These were— | 32:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | This one though, we talking about the new one, this one right here. | 32:43 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They build it for the White. | 32:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, this is where the kids go to school now on Avery Island. | 33:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. And the Blacks went in the White school. | 33:04 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. That's what you're saying. | 33:09 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They gave the Blacks the White's children's school, and they built them a big building. | 33:10 |
Felix Armfield | Now where's the Black school? Further on down? | 33:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, it's further, old— | 33:20 |
Felix Armfield | No, no, the old Black school. | 33:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:33:28] four whole miles from here. Go up here. | 33:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | This used to be an old store. On Avery Island store. | 33:37 |
Felix Armfield | This used to be Avery Island— | 33:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hmm? | 33:38 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:33:40] What is that building now? | 33:38 |
Felix Armfield | It's a wellness center. | 33:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:33:46] | 33:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:33:51] | 33:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Andy said all along here, that— | 33:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:33:56] | 33:54 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 33:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | There's been more [indistinct 00:34:00] | 33:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Down there was [indistinct 00:34:03] | 34:01 |
Felix Armfield | Look at the church. Where are we going? | 34:01 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go around. | 34:01 |
Felix Armfield | And these are the salt mines out here? | 34:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 34:08 |
Felix Armfield | Man. And all this belonged to the Averys, huh? | 34:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. Avery and [indistinct 00:34:17] | 34:15 |
Felix Armfield | Look at that. Did you go to this church? | 34:17 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 34:22 |
Rosalind Miller | What's the name on the church, Mr Russell? | 34:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Emanuel Baptist Church. | 34:22 |
Felix Armfield | Was this for the White people? | 34:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, Black. | 34:31 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, this was for the Black people here on Avery Island? I was going to say Russell Island. So the Black people here on Avery Island went to this church here. | 34:33 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 34:44 |
Felix Armfield | That's the baptist church. | 34:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Emanuel Baptist. | 34:46 |
Felix Armfield | And those of you that were Catholic, you had to go elsewhere to go to church? | 34:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 34:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | All along here, they had it all along here. | 34:58 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell, now if you were born on this island, and everybody else was baptist, how did you end up being a catholic? | 35:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My mother was. | 35:11 |
Felix Armfield | Your mother was a catholic. | 35:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | They were a lot of catholic out here. | 35:14 |
Felix Armfield | What was your dad? | 35:18 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Baptist. | 35:20 |
Felix Armfield | And you decided to be what you mother was, huh? | 35:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | He's [indistinct 00:35:28] house. | 35:23 |
Felix Armfield | Whose house was that? | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:35:30] right at [indistinct 00:35:32]. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | White family. | 35:23 |
Felix Armfield | A White family lived in? | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Whatever. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | Huh? | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You said they had enough. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | I thought they did, based on my kids, [indistinct 00:35:42]. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Maybe they have one down here. Turn around. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | Five, 10 years ago since I've been here. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Turn. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, they had it all along. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:36:01] you can't go around in that. Mr. Walter house on this side. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Keep straight going down there. | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | I can see the [indistinct 00:36:10] road is closed. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No, I don't think— | 35:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, [indistinct 00:36:13] grasses on it. | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's a pretty tree. Umbrella. | 35:23 |
Rosalind Miller | Mr. Russell, about how many families lived on the island? | 35:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'd say about 100 something. | 35:23 |
Felix Armfield | Were they mostly Black families? | 36:39 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Black and White. One time, what is it, [indistinct 00:36:51]? | 36:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | He what? | 36:50 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It was [indistinct 00:37:02]. | 36:50 |
Felix Armfield | These are the salt mills, huh? | 37:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 37:02 |
Felix Armfield | Where can I get a picture of one? | 37:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Maybe when you get on that side, over there. One time— | 37:02 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:37:07] application [indistinct 00:37:07]. | 37:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | When he get, where, to take a picture? | 37:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Over there by that [indistinct 00:37:27], yeah, this [indistinct 00:37:28]. | 37:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, we need more than a picture of this. | 37:32 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Over there. [indistinct 00:37:34] | 37:32 |
Felix Armfield | No, I wanted something— | 37:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | He wanted this— | 37:32 |
Felix Armfield | I'll get one up here of this sign. | 37:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:37:45] | 37:38 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | At one time, [indistinct 00:37:46] they didn't have them Cajun worker [indistinct 00:37:56]. | 37:44 |
Felix Armfield | They didn't have that many Cajuns working here? | 37:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. They had German, Italians and Mexico. | 37:58 |
Rosalind Miller | The will just said no one was [indistinct 00:38:08] | 38:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What? | 38:07 |
Felix Armfield | It look like here's something now. | 38:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:38:15] | 38:07 |
Felix Armfield | I'm going to get a, at least I know I was on the salt line. | 38:15 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | 24 hours a day. | 38:28 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 38:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's 24 hours a day, [indistinct 00:38:36]. | 38:31 |
Felix Armfield | Really? Where we going? Back here? | 38:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We going back there, way out my grandfather's farm. | 38:39 |
Felix Armfield | Your grandfather what? | 38:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Farm. | 38:47 |
Felix Armfield | Your grandfather was born back there? | 38:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Farm. | 38:49 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, farming. | 38:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | He was a farmer. | 38:55 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I just [indistinct 00:38:56] this, when I— | 38:56 |
Felix Armfield | What didn't they do? | 38:57 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This is a ash here, it something I haven't— | 38:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | Take a picture of this— | 39:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Something happened at the [indistinct 00:39:07], down the [indistinct 00:39:09] get out of here, or they would never. | 39:07 |
Felix Armfield | Where? | 39:16 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There. It's over there. | 39:16 |
Rosalind Miller | We're going down kind of fast. | 39:16 |
Felix Armfield | Where are we going, Mr. Russell, back here? | 39:22 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This way. That's the salt mine. | 39:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | Now you want to take a picture of that? | 39:26 |
Felix Armfield | Will we come back by here? | 39:29 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 39:30 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Where is the salt mine? | 39:31 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | There. They were repairing it. | 39:34 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. I'll just get a picture from here. I'mma [indistinct 00:39:47]. | 39:40 |
Rosalind Miller | When was the [indistinct 00:40:04] Company established? | 40:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This right here? Well these were all salt mines first, then they [indistinct 00:40:18] they were all certain salts. Then they went to that next. | 40:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Just keep left. We used to go swimming back up in that part. Over at [indistinct 00:40:50], our Black hole. Keep left. I drove right, but I don't know, we're so narrow, you might meet someone. | 40:40 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Keep there. They [indistinct 00:41:23] were all the salt mines was, they sunk. | 41:15 |
Felix Armfield | That's where one of the old salt mines used to be? | 41:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, it sunk. | 41:25 |
Rosalind Miller | It sunk. | 41:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And they moved over, got the equipment out, and they swim in that hole, call it Blue Hole, the water is blue. | 41:25 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I see. It can't help but be blue with all the salt that's probably down there. | 41:25 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I guess so. I got whole lots of [indistinct 00:41:57] back in these woods. | 41:25 |
Felix Armfield | I'm keeping left? | 42:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah. | 42:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I'm never going to lose you. | 42:16 |
Felix Armfield | I didn't think you were going to lose us. | 42:17 |
Rosalind Miller | Mr. Russell, who was the first in your family to move here? | 42:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | My grandfather, Sims, and his wife. And my grandfather, William, and his wife. | 42:28 |
Felix Armfield | So they probably came here after the war, huh? | 42:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 42:44 |
Felix Armfield | That was the Civil War, at least. | 42:45 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 42:47 |
Felix Armfield | This is beautiful back here. | 42:52 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | It's still well-kept. | 42:58 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah, I see. | 42:59 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Matter fact I have a home back [indistinct 00:43:14]. | 43:13 |
Felix Armfield | You have a home back there? | 43:13 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not me. | 43:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:43:19] town. | 43:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:43:23] | 43:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:43:23] | 43:14 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, Nixon. | 43:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | You can't see it. | 43:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Where I grew up. | 43:23 |
Felix Armfield | You can't see it. | 43:23 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You might see it. You should [indistinct 00:43:43] see a [indistinct 00:43:44] kept, it's all overgrown, kept badly. They have a home back up in there. | 43:35 |
Felix Armfield | There's definitely one coming up here, with these big gates. | 44:00 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, our president of the McIlhenny Company lives up in there. This lady, she used to live in New Orleans. She come here. | 44:02 |
Felix Armfield | Where am I going? | 44:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Keep left. | 44:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I already told you, they all live up in the woods. | 44:02 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | We're coming down now, that one. | 44:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | And you [indistinct 00:45:23] until you get [indistinct 00:45:24] | 44:02 |
Felix Armfield | I wouldn't even try to come back here by myself. | 45:24 |
Rosalind Miller | Me neither. | 45:26 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I don't bet you could get out of here. | 45:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Mm-mm— | 45:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I mean my wife. | 45:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, [indistinct 00:45:37]. | 45:37 |
Felix Armfield | Could you get out of here, Mrs. Russell? | 45:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, yes, I can [indistinct 00:45:41] for myself. | 45:37 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Yeah, but not from this way. | 45:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:45:47] all I [indistinct 00:45:48] | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Got her home back up in there. | 45:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:45:49] follow the fence, you can get out [indistinct 00:45:53]. | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Go on, get out of the way. That's [indistinct 00:46:02]. I don't know. | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's what she said. This [indistinct 00:46:14]. Now that's old farm, where they used to keep the [indistinct 00:46:27]. Turn this way. | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | This is the old land mark. | 45:44 |
Felix Armfield | Now what is this old landmark? | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | [indistinct 00:46:46] house. | 45:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:46:46]. | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's what I said. | 45:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You sit in the back, up front? | 0:08 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:00:10] Mr. Russell. | 0:08 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. I put James Russell. | 0:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They called it sugar house. That's where my grandfather used to work. | 0:19 |
Felix Armfield | Your grandfather worked back there at that old first sugar house? | 0:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | All this land down here, the McIlhenny works it. Averys not working it anymore. | 0:32 |
Felix Armfield | This used to be the Avery's. | 0:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 0:41 |
Felix Armfield | Well, now, tell me again the story about the Averys and McIlhennys? Did they marry each other? | 0:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | McIlhenny married into the Avery family. They have more McIlhennys now than Averys. | 0:47 |
Felix Armfield | I see. | 0:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Where in the dog is the pepper field? It might be on the other end. | 0:52 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you done got lost, Mr. Russell. | 1:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No, indeed, now. | 1:28 |
Felix Armfield | You done got lost, man. I thought we was being in good hands. | 1:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:01:32] Well— | 1:31 |
Rosalind Miller | What you looking for? | 1:31 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:01:37] the pepper field. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | It's on the other end. I'm sure. | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:01:41] | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | What? Where we going now? | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Where you going now? You said the pepper field, honey. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Sure did. | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | But I know you didn't go far enough to go to the pepper field before you turned to come get him. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh. Where we going? Huh? | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:02:03] you lost. I'm not going to tell you. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Shit. I'm not lost. No, indeed, God. I guess we're all going to say, "Where they going?" I been over here, but I never— | 1:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Been all back here? | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Had a home right up in there. This here little clearing. On your right-hand side. There it is. Who's over there, baby? | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:10] home [indistinct 00:03:11] over there. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:03:13] | 1:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | I'm not going to tell you. You know I know it. I don't know why you asking me that. | 1:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Around there were ice cream people. This [indistinct 00:03:25] | 1:31 |
Felix Armfield | Is that where the blue—What is it? | 3:26 |
Rosalind Miller | I don't remember. | 3:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:29] | 3:28 |
Felix Armfield | The ice cream people? | 3:29 |
Rosalind Miller | Around the [indistinct 00:03:31] | 3:30 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. | 3:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:32] as much as I work [indistinct 00:03:33] | 3:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Them in New Orleans [indistinct 00:03:37] | 3:37 |
Rosalind Miller | That looks like a home. | 3:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's their summer home. | 3:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Their home. | 3:37 |
Felix Armfield | They live in New Orleans now? | 3:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They always did. | 3:41 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 3:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There my schoolhouse. | 3:46 |
Felix Armfield | What schoolhouse? | 3:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Where I told you I went to school. | 3:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:51] | 3:49 |
Felix Armfield | This is where you went to school? | 3:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Not there. They moved it. | 3:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:56] the house [indistinct 00:03:56] | 3:55 |
Felix Armfield | I know. But this is where the Black people went to school. | 3:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | In that building there. | 3:58 |
Felix Armfield | This end over here? | 4:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 4:02 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, man. | 4:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | Could be anything. | 4:02 |
Felix Armfield | People live here now? | 4:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 4:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | If they're not there, they're in New Orleans. | 4:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | They comes every now and then. If you got a lotta money to— | 4:02 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. You can just go and come as you please. | 4:02 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 4:02 |
Rosalind Miller | My sister came last year [indistinct 00:04:28] | 4:02 |
Felix Armfield | Was it a one-room school, Mr. Russell? | 4:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Two room. | 4:30 |
Felix Armfield | It was a two-room. And how far did you have to walk to get back after school? | 4:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 4:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | He didn't come to school. That's where the new school is. | 4:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Where the new brick school is. | 4:40 |
Rosalind Miller | This school was where the other school— | 4:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. They moved the school from— | 4:44 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 4:44 |
Felix Armfield | —up there. | 4:44 |
Rosalind Miller | So [indistinct 00:04:47] | 4:44 |
Felix Armfield | But this was the building. | 4:47 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 4:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 4:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | They bought that building and added a— | 4:50 |
Felix Armfield | I see. | 4:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Renovate it. | 4:50 |
Felix Armfield | Well, actually, the Black and White children schools were right next to each other. | 4:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 4:59 |
Felix Armfield | Isn't that something? | 5:01 |
Rosalind Miller | The teachers for the Black children were White or Black? | 5:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | Black. | 5:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Black. | 5:05 |
Rosalind Miller | Black. And then the teachers for the White children were White and White. | 5:08 |
Felix Armfield | And what grade did you complete, Mr. Russell? | 5:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Sixth. | 5:18 |
Felix Armfield | And which one did you complete, Mrs—But you didn't go to school on Avery Island, right? | 5:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | Who, me? | 5:23 |
Felix Armfield | Yes, ma'am. | 5:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, no. No. | 5:27 |
Felix Armfield | You went to school in New Iberia, right? | 5:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:05:29] | 5:27 |
Rosalind Miller | How far did you go? I assume you graduated? | 5:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. I didn't graduate. [indistinct 00:05:37] about the sixth grade. And we went to a nice school a while. | 5:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Security guard would catch you right up in here. Boy, you had to show him some kind of- | 5:27 |
Felix Armfield | What, Mr. Russell? | 5:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:06:11] | 5:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Security guard catch you back up in here. You had to show him some kind of— | 5:27 |
Felix Armfield | I wouldn't come back up [indistinct 00:06:21] unless you were with me. | 6:19 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. You see where that [indistinct 00:06:28] | 6:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:06:28] | 6:27 |
Felix Armfield | Nobody has bothered me, either. | 6:27 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:06:29] visit. | 6:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There was change- | 6:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Might be nice to you. | 6:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —and [indistinct 00:06:32] | 6:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, god. [indistinct 00:06:34] | 6:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Used to could— | 6:31 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, [indistinct 00:06:36] | 6:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —come down the hill, you see [indistinct 00:06:40] cotton, but not anymore. | 6:31 |
Felix Armfield | The trees have grown up so much [indistinct 00:06:45] | 6:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And pine trees. Turn right. | 6:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | He said turn into the [indistinct 00:06:52] | 6:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:06:52] | 6:51 |
Rosalind Miller | What he said. | 6:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And okra. They had pepper down here on this end last year. They had done planted [indistinct 00:07:15] | 6:58 |
Rosalind Miller | Now, what you say? | 6:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Pepper. Pepper here planted in the same place. It has to be on the other end, way back here. We'll see going back. That's not on this end. That's all swampland now back there. | 6:58 |
Felix Armfield | Back over there? | 6:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. That's where my grandfather's farm and all, he had sugar cane, cotton, corn. | 7:59 |
Felix Armfield | Now, where Black people buried back here on Avery Island? | 8:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. We just passed it. | 8:06 |
Felix Armfield | You just- | 8:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | By that post office. | 8:12 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, at the post office. Are we going to go back by there? | 8:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We can if you want to see the headstone of my families. | 8:21 |
Felix Armfield | I would love to. Get a picture of it. | 8:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | There's no pepper around here. | 8:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's why I said must be on the other end. | 8:28 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:08:33] | 8:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right up here should be the [indistinct 00:08:37] schoolhouse where the—We must have passed it. That's not pepper. | 8:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | I already said there's no peppers. | 8:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's [indistinct 00:09:01]. It's on the other end. That's soybean there. | 8:37 |
Felix Armfield | Hmm? | 8:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Soybean. | 8:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Soybean. | 8:37 |
Felix Armfield | We should turn around, huh? | 9:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. Go. As is. Home of [indistinct 00:09:33] has [indistinct 00:09:35]. That's all [indistinct 00:09:41]. | 9:25 |
Felix Armfield | Beautiful lawn. I don't know if you can call that a lawn. | 9:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There's all the oil [indistinct 00:09:52] if you kept that way. Keeping oil heavy. | 9:46 |
Felix Armfield | Is this oil— | 9:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. That's the only place you see. Exxon. Yeah, you can turn around here, back up and turn around. | 10:03 |
Felix Armfield | Ah, you can—So they do oil drilling down here, too? | 10:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I told you they— | 10:13 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:10:14] | 10:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —have oil pressure all over here. | 10:13 |
Felix Armfield | What is it that they don't do on Avery Island? Probably be easier to tell me what they don't do. | 10:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | This is number two refinery. They have a larger one and this old one. | 10:26 |
Felix Armfield | These people can't help but be wealthy. They can't help but be rich. Look at what they do out here. They make Tabasco sauce. They grow peppers. | 10:34 |
Rosalind Miller | Soybeans. | 10:42 |
Felix Armfield | Soybeans. | 10:45 |
Rosalind Miller | Salt mines. | 10:45 |
Felix Armfield | Salt mines. Oil pressure. What you do call that? | 10:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oil well. | 10:50 |
Felix Armfield | And oil well. | 10:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | Well. | 10:50 |
Felix Armfield | They got it all on Avery Island. | 10:57 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's where Gerald worked [indistinct 00:11:10]. | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Right there. | 10:58 |
Felix Armfield | Who's Gerald? | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Another on this— | 10:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | One of my friend's sons. | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Another on this end there. On that- | 10:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:11:20] cousin. | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | On the other end. | 10:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | He used to work at the [indistinct 00:11:33] one time. | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Planted pepper there. This year, they plant soybeans. Then further down's where they had soybeans. Year before, that's where they planted peppers. | 10:58 |
Felix Armfield | So, rotating crops, huh? | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. That's where the victory garden for the people was. Okra and— | 10:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:12:52] | 10:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yeah? Corn. | 12:54 |
Felix Armfield | Hurricane Hilda? | 13:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah? | 13:06 |
Felix Armfield | And which year did Hurricane Hilda come? | 13:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | '57, I believe. | 13:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:13:13] | 13:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I think so. | 13:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:13:17] | 13:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's [indistinct 00:13:24] oil well. That's one. | 13:07 |
Felix Armfield | These are oil wells. | 13:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. [indistinct 00:13:30] and oil pumps. Right here in this curve, that was the cut-off. Avery farmed this side; McIlhenny farmed the other. | 13:07 |
Felix Armfield | So, this road up here was the divider? | 13:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. But [indistinct 00:14:39] in the spring over here, that's beautiful in these woods. See nothing but a mass of white, dogwood trees—There's the pepper. | 13:07 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, here's the pepper field. I can't get in there and get some of it. | 13:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | You can see [indistinct 00:15:06] | 13:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The [indistinct 00:15:09] | 13:07 |
Felix Armfield | I thought that girl said that they were coming out here to pick peppers. | 15:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They didn't— | 15:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | They did pick peppers. There's lots of red peppers still on the bush. | 15:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yes. They did. | 15:15 |
Felix Armfield | They still pick it by hand? | 15:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Or machine. But it mess it up. | 15:22 |
Felix Armfield | So, it's best to pick it by hand? | 15:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. Long as they can get pepper pickers, they always put a machine in there. | 15:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | A White girl [indistinct 00:15:50] operating [indistinct 00:15:52] in the factory. She has a home office. | 15:38 |
Rosalind Miller | Really? | 15:38 |
Felix Armfield | Look at those. What are those? | 15:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's the first time I saw those. | 15:57 |
Felix Armfield | Is that a turkey? | 16:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:16:04] | 16:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You right. | 16:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | A wild turkey. | 16:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 16:10 |
Felix Armfield | Look at that! | 16:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | Wow. | 16:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The reason why— | 16:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | How you [indistinct 00:16:12] | 16:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | First time I've seen. | 16:10 |
Felix Armfield | Man! | 16:10 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:16:17] | 16:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They had a roast turkey and them [indistinct 00:16:25] chicken. | 16:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:16:29] that home office right [indistinct 00:16:33] | 16:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | She had graduated in, what, [indistinct 00:16:43]. Here. | 16:34 |
Felix Armfield | Turn here? | 16:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. I want to go up—No. Not here. | 16:57 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Where you want to keep going? | 17:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:17:06] back here. | 17:04 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:17:08] | 17:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | How could we— | 17:04 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:17:12] | 17:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | How could a car [indistinct 00:17:14] | 17:04 |
Felix Armfield | You guys tired? | 17:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hmm? | 17:04 |
Felix Armfield | Here? You tired? | 17:04 |
Rosalind Miller | I know I'm tired. | 17:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | You tired? | 17:04 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | What? | 17:04 |
Felix Armfield | No. I asked everyone had they gotten tired? | 17:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Exhausted. Right here. Right here. | 17:26 |
Felix Armfield | Right here? | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yep. | 17:38 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 17:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I want to [indistinct 00:17:58] up on that hill that you see on the highway. | 17:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, we going to go to that area that was called Prospect Hill? | 18:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. That's Mayward Hill. | 18:13 |
Felix Armfield | That was what? | 18:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Mayward Hill. | 18:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mayward. | 18:15 |
Felix Armfield | Mayward. | 18:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hill. | 18:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mayward Hill. | 18:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:18:27] All right. Deer Run. | 18:30 |
Felix Armfield | Deer Run. | 18:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And Fiddle Green. And- | 18:31 |
Felix Armfield | What was the last one? | 18:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Fiddle Green. | 18:38 |
Felix Armfield | Fiddle Green? | 18:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. And who— | 18:39 |
Rosalind Miller | Man, this road is very long. | 18:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Deep Root. | 18:47 |
Rosalind Miller | Deep Root. | 18:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And Hoorah Hill back up in here. | 18:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:18:50] | 18:49 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 18:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | This is Deer Run. | 18:54 |
Felix Armfield | This is Deer Run. | 18:56 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:18:58] | 18:57 |
Felix Armfield | Where am I going? | 18:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | See the sign? | 18:58 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. That says Prospect right there. And the Fiddler's Green. | 18:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 19:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. We got them, right? | 19:01 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 19:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hoorah Hill is a old [indistinct 00:19:14] and they have a house up right in there. Let's see where File Street. There's one of the Averys. She married a what, baby? What? | 19:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, I don't know. | 19:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Now. | 19:01 |
Felix Armfield | Turn right? | 19:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Virginia was her daughter. | 19:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 19:01 |
Felix Armfield | There's a deer. Look. | 20:06 |
Rosalind Miller | Yep. | 20:08 |
Felix Armfield | So, this is why they call this Deer Run? | 20:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Not this hill. | 20:12 |
Felix Armfield | That's a deer right there. You see it? | 20:14 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. But it's— | 20:15 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:20:16] | 20:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —Prospect. | 20:15 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. Oh, there's a gang of them. | 20:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, yeah. They feed them. | 20:29 |
Felix Armfield | Look at that! Big deer, too. | 20:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 20:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There's another house down this street. Live in New Orleans. That's our water tank. | 20:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. That's where you got your purified water from, huh? | 21:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, look at this. | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's [indistinct 00:21:09] local new high berry. | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | Wow. | 21:03 |
Rosalind Miller | I'm really [indistinct 00:21:16] | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Couldn't be there. | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:21:18] you've never [indistinct 00:21:18] | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:21:19] | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | —here? | 21:03 |
Rosalind Miller | No. Of course not. | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Who? | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | Where should I go? | 21:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You have to go around. | 21:03 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:21:23] a turn. | 21:03 |
Felix Armfield | Can I get a picture of that from here, though? | 21:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 21:26 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah, get a picture. [indistinct 00:21:30] | 21:27 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Here, though, some nights— | 21:32 |
Felix Armfield | Isn't that beautiful? | 21:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —too bright. | 21:32 |
Felix Armfield | This is Prospect Hill. | 21:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We aren't in— | 21:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Boy, is this beautiful. I'm glad I came. Yeah. | 21:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | I guess so. [indistinct 00:21:56] | 21:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh, yeah. | 21:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. [indistinct 00:21:59] | 21:36 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:21:59] get out of your house and come [indistinct 00:22:01] | 21:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:22:02] | 21:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | So, your [indistinct 00:22:05]. | 21:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh. [indistinct 00:22:12] | 21:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:22:15] and something. | 22:17 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:22:18] | 22:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:22:19] | 22:17 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:22:19] | 22:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, 100-something feet above sea level. | 22:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:22:25] | 22:20 |
Felix Armfield | At this point right here? | 22:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:22:27] | 22:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Then New Iberia. | 22:20 |
Felix Armfield | But that's New Iberia back there that we were looking at? | 22:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. And on this side, you're on the Avery [indistinct 00:22:38]. It's pretty to come up here at night, see all the lights. | 22:44 |
Felix Armfield | I bet it is. Look at those deers. | 22:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You still see them. | 22:52 |
Felix Armfield | Look, they're resting, too. | 22:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:22:55] | 22:52 |
Felix Armfield | Can't get a closer shot of them. | 22:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | Why don't you get out of the car? | 22:59 |
Felix Armfield | You think they'll take off? | 22:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 22:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | If you slam the door, then they might start running. | 22:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I don't think he can do it. | 23:36 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:23:37] | 23:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:23:37] they're about to take off. They might [indistinct 00:23:37] | 23:36 |
Rosalind Miller | Man, [indistinct 00:23:37]. That's far enough, he said. | 23:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Might think that's a rustler. They put the feed out for them. | 23:36 |
Felix Armfield | They didn't take off until they heard the camera click. And then they don't go too far. | 23:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. They [indistinct 00:24:00] | 24:00 |
Felix Armfield | They obviously must not—They usually not troubled by people back here, huh? | 24:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. They feed them. | 24:04 |
Felix Armfield | They took off that time. | 24:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | This [indistinct 00:24:10] | 24:09 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:24:10] they're gone. | 24:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —over here— | 24:09 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 24:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —she got a pan and rattle it [indistinct 00:24:16] you see them come up, all directions. | 24:14 |
Felix Armfield | So, they don't let them deer hunt back here, huh? | 24:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. And lady where I worked at, she killed and eaten all my frogs. | 24:33 |
Felix Armfield | Where to? | 24:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Went all the way back home. | 24:33 |
Felix Armfield | Hmm? | 24:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We going all— | 24:33 |
Rosalind Miller | Said [indistinct 00:25:02] | 24:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Might have— | 24:33 |
Felix Armfield | That's on the way back out, right? | 25:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 25:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:25:07] | 25:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 25:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. [indistinct 00:25:13] | 25:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You'd have to turn way down the road [indistinct 00:25:18] | 25:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Which way? | 25:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | These folks here live in New Orleans. | 25:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:25:40] here. Spend some time weekends, then go back to New Orleans. | 25:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's the McIlhenny. | 25:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:25:46] down this way [indistinct 00:25:48] where I was working at [indistinct 00:25:55] some other guy [indistinct 00:25:57] one of them in Canada [indistinct 00:25:59] one in Houston, the other one in New York. And they come over every now and then to Houston or to Canada to see how we doing. | 26:24 |
Rosalind Miller | That's nice. | 26:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | And they have [indistinct 00:26:25] they going to be [indistinct 00:26:25] and they'll stay about a week or two and then- | 26:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There [indistinct 00:26:25] | 26:25 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, look at that. | 26:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:26:25] | 26:25 |
Felix Armfield | All those deers over there. | 26:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Oh, bucks and [indistinct 00:26:27] deers, man. | 26:25 |
Felix Armfield | What are those? | 26:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You see them by the 10 and 20. | 26:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | Do you mean [indistinct 00:26:33] | 26:25 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you saying that's not a whole lot of them, huh? Okay. I'm like, "That's [indistinct 00:26:37] deer." | 26:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They go on, nah? | 26:39 |
Felix Armfield | No, they're not. | 26:40 |
Rosalind Miller | Must be [indistinct 00:26:44] | 26:43 |
Felix Armfield | That might be about 15 or 20 right there. | 26:43 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:26:46] | 26:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 26:44 |
Rosalind Miller | About 10. | 26:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:26:47] | 26:44 |
Felix Armfield | Man, I have never seen so many deers together. | 26:51 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. About 10 of them. | 27:00 |
Felix Armfield | You sure that's all? | 27:00 |
Rosalind Miller | Yep. | 27:00 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. Because some of them are lying down. But you know what? There's usually only one buck in the pack, and I notice that. | 27:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. There's one buck. | 27:08 |
Felix Armfield | There's more pepper fields. | 27:19 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:27:21] used to go [indistinct 00:27:22] | 27:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hmm? | 27:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | I see a school bus out there. [indistinct 00:27:27] | 27:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's the bus where [indistinct 00:27:31] go to— | 27:31 |
Felix Armfield | Fiddler's Green [indistinct 00:27:31]. And now, did we just leave off Fiddler's Green? | 27:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 27:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Fiddler's Green. | 27:33 |
Felix Armfield | Look. | 27:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh. Look. [indistinct 00:27:39] | 27:33 |
Felix Armfield | Look at- | 27:33 |
Nancy V. Russell | —take a picture of. | 27:33 |
Felix Armfield | —that. | 27:33 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:27:41] | 27:33 |
Felix Armfield | I probably can't get out there. | 27:41 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:27:44] | 27:43 |
Felix Armfield | Let's roll your window down. | 27:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:27:45] | 27:44 |
Felix Armfield | Let him do it. I got it. | 27:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | Can you see? | 27:47 |
Rosalind Miller | Got him. | 27:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | And look beyond [indistinct 00:27:54] | 27:49 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-huh. | 27:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:28:00] | 27:49 |
Felix Armfield | They really breed these things— | 28:00 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:28:02] | 28:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 28:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | On Halloween- | 28:04 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. [indistinct 00:28:05] the cemetery? Maybe one more if it wasn't—If that was the last one, it would've ran back. We got one more. | 28:05 |
Rosalind Miller | One more. | 28:10 |
Felix Armfield | For the cemetery. | 28:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Halloween, we have a weeny roast right down there. | 28:12 |
Felix Armfield | Weeny roast at Halloween? | 28:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 28:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right. | 28:22 |
Felix Armfield | Down over there? | 28:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right there, where— | 28:24 |
Felix Armfield | Where all those deer were? | 28:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, yeah. A little further down. [indistinct 00:28:29] | 28:26 |
Felix Armfield | What is it that you all didn't do on this island? | 28:26 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:28:33] | 28:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And on the first day of July, we had a big barbecue, White and Black, all together. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:28:42] and I used to be the cook. I used to cook [indistinct 00:28:43] | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:28:45] | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:28:46] | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | That's what? | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | The plant. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Where they come from. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. The- | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:28:53] | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | That first place we went. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah, right. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:28:56] now, though, aren't they? | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, yeah. We had it around. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | I was about to say, is that your house? But that's not your house. | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. That's my house there where I raised. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, it's that one. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | Where? | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:29:11] | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Wait. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right there. | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Look. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | You were raised in that house right there? | 28:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:29:17] family in that thing. | 28:37 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. [indistinct 00:29:21] the other one, then. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | Let me see. | 28:37 |
Nancy V. Russell | And it's this one. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | You think? Oh. We'll get the cemetery. But that's the house you was raised in on Avery Island, huh? | 29:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I was about— | 29:38 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:29:43] | 29:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —10 years old— | 29:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:29:45] | 29:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —when we moved up there. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | What did- | 29:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I was born down there [indistinct 00:29:52] | 29:47 |
Felix Armfield | So at about 10, you moved in that house? | 29:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 29:55 |
Felix Armfield | What, to the left? | 29:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Right. | 29:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | To the right. | 29:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. I said right. | 30:00 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. | 30:01 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 30:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right. [indistinct 00:30:07] | 30:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. I said to the left, I said right down there, and yes. | 30:07 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:30:12] right there. | 30:11 |
Felix Armfield | Were these the quarters? | 30:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. The White quarters. | 30:12 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. Black people didn't live in those quarters? | 30:18 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. Just the White people. | 30:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 30:23 |
Felix Armfield | You haven't shown me any Black quarters, though? | 30:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. [indistinct 00:30:34] You'll get there. | 30:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:30:34] | 30:34 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 30:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's where the— | 30:34 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:30:35] | 30:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —green arch where they stocked the pepper and— | 30:34 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 30:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That big grass house. | 30:38 |
Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 30:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Stock the pepper in there in March. They'd plant it. | 30:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:30:50] store them. [indistinct 00:30:53] | 30:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's our little store. | 30:52 |
Felix Armfield | This was the store on the island. | 30:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 30:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | This is still the store. | 30:57 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 31:00 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 31:00 |
Felix Armfield | It's not open now, is it? | 31:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 31:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. It's closed. | 31:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Where we going now? | 31:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Keep straight. | 31:03 |
Felix Armfield | You even have a store— | 31:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Turn right. | 31:07 |
Felix Armfield | —on the island. | 31:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | And turn right, don't he? He can. | 31:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We not going through—Oh, yeah. He can. | 31:08 |
Felix Armfield | Look. | 31:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | This is Black quarters. | 31:08 |
Felix Armfield | And this is the Black quarters? And is it still this way today? | 31:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 31:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 31:46 |
Felix Armfield | What? No. | 31:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's the house where we used to live. | 31:47 |
Felix Armfield | You used to live— | 31:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | We lived in— | 31:48 |
Felix Armfield | —in this house? | 31:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | —the quarters here before we moved up there where [indistinct 00:31:54] | 31:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We moved. | 31:48 |
Felix Armfield | I just won't worry about the cemetery. | 31:55 |
Rosalind Miller | Uh-huh. This is mighty foreign to us. | 32:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We moved there in— | 32:04 |
Felix Armfield | But these are the quarters? | 32:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —'55. Yeah. | 32:04 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:32:05] | 32:04 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, my goodness. I didn't realize that Black people still lived—Nobody still lived on Avery Island, so-to-speak. | 32:08 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:32:15] | 32:14 |
Felix Armfield | But this was your house, right? | 32:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 32:16 |
Rosalind Miller | Nope. | 32:16 |
Felix Armfield | I got one more. | 32:16 |
Rosalind Miller | All right. | 32:16 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | It had three bedroom, living room— | 32:25 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:32:34] | 32:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —and a bath. | 32:33 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:32:37] start over [indistinct 00:32:41] | 32:33 |
Felix Armfield | And these were the quarters for Black people? | 32:42 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:32:45] | 32:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | See these houses here? [indistinct 00:32:49] | 32:45 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:32:51] | 32:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They're probably over hundreds of years old. | 32:46 |
Felix Armfield | They got to be. Now what's this building right here? | 32:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That's the old plant. Tabasco plant. | 32:59 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 32:59 |
Rosalind Miller | [indistinct 00:33:00] get closer [indistinct 00:33:09] | 32:59 |
Felix Armfield | You think so? | 33:08 |
Rosalind Miller | They don't live there no more. | 33:09 |
Felix Armfield | Some of them do. | 33:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | My Grandfather Lloyd helped to build this. | 33:11 |
Felix Armfield | Who? | 33:20 |
Rosalind Miller | My Uncle Lloyd. | 33:20 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 33:20 |
Rosalind Miller | Lloyd Miller. Harpy brother. Taylor Miller brother. | 33:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:33:23] | 33:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | And the— | 33:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:33:29] look at the peacocks. | 33:28 |
Felix Armfield | Where? | 33:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right at— | 33:28 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, look at that. One of them won't spread their wings for me. | 33:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, they all— | 33:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They not going to spread their wings. | 33:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Not those. They're females. | 33:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They're male. | 33:35 |
Felix Armfield | That's a male right there. | 33:35 |
Nancy V. Russell | They're female. A young male [indistinct 00:33:41] | 33:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | They're not going to spread their wings, though. | 33:41 |
Felix Armfield | Mating [indistinct 00:33:47] | 33:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Next spring is mating season. | 33:46 |
Felix Armfield | That's a beautiful sight to see, though. | 33:48 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. [indistinct 00:34:07] | 34:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | That white building where [indistinct 00:34:36] that's the original buildings of the plant. | 34:07 |
Felix Armfield | So, we're going by the post office so we can see the cemetery, right? | 34:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 34:41 |
Felix Armfield | And then we're done, right? | 34:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | When you see Marsh House, turn right. | 34:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Right here. Keep going. | 34:41 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. That's the post office. We should have got a picture of the post office. | 34:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | There a house back up in here. Go slow. Go slow. No. Further than that. Keep going. That's the McIlhenny-Avery cemetery there. [indistinct 00:35:34] | 35:33 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, that's the Averys and McIlhenny, huh? | 35:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. Turn here. | 35:34 |
Felix Armfield | Where am I going to turn? | 35:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You passed it up. Go ahead. | 35:54 |
Felix Armfield | There was no way to turn. | 35:54 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. He told you to turn [indistinct 00:35:55] | 35:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Just turn here. | 35:54 |
Rosalind Miller | Turn on the lawn. | 35:56 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. On the lawn. Okay. I didn't know I could drive on the lawn. We won't get stuck on it? | 35:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:36:02] no. [indistinct 00:36:04] they get on the levy [indistinct 00:36:08]. She— | 36:02 |
Felix Armfield | Is that it right there on the— | 36:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Keep going on this side. | 36:16 |
Felix Armfield | If we get stuck down there, Mr. Russell— | 36:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We'll get out. Somebody will come get us. | 36:26 |
Felix Armfield | You sure? | 36:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Promise it. Might have to walk out without your car. | 36:29 |
Felix Armfield | If you say so. | 36:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. We have [indistinct 00:36:41] we have [indistinct 00:36:44] people. Hang way over there so you can stand down there. | 36:41 |
Rosalind Miller | Oh. This is it? | 37:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Now you go back through this- | 37:18 |
Felix Armfield | Right down here? | 37:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:37:19] right here is the graveyard. | 37:18 |
Rosalind Miller | Get out. [indistinct 00:37:19] | 37:18 |
Felix Armfield | Darling, just get down. | 37:18 |
Nancy V. Russell | I'm not getting down. | 37:18 |
Felix Armfield | You got it, Mr. Russell? | 37:19 |
Felix Armfield | Now, Mr. Russell. Hold on. Where's my [indistinct 00:37:28]. Now, what did you tell me about the cemetery situation? | 37:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | You asked about— | 37:28 |
Felix Armfield | That it— | 37:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —our plot, and it's kept up by Avery Island— | 37:28 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 37:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —Incorporated. [indistinct 00:37:50] cut the grass or raking in the— | 37:28 |
Felix Armfield | So— | 37:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Anyway you see. | 37:58 |
Felix Armfield | And it's interesting how the Whites were on one side and the Blacks were right on the other side. It seems like it was just your family— | 38:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We had one time— | 38:22 |
Felix Armfield | —that they let bury out here. Where are the other Blacks that worked on Avery Island? Where were they buried? | 38:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, Petite Anse. | 38:34 |
Felix Armfield | At Petite Anse? | 38:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. They had a cemetery behind the salt mine back there. | 38:40 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. | 38:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | But it's all covered up in woods now. You're on your own now. You know where you going. | 38:50 |
Felix Armfield | No, I don't. | 39:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:39:08] | 39:07 |
Felix Armfield | They provided you with that cemetery back there, huh? | 39:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:17 |
Felix Armfield | And all your family members could buried back there. | 39:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:22 |
Felix Armfield | Take a left? | 39:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:39 |
Felix Armfield | Where's the train on Avery Island? | 39:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Down there by that post office. | 39:44 |
Felix Armfield | You catch it there at the post office. That's if you was going go into New Iberia? | 39:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:49 |
Felix Armfield | And when you all went for church, you'd go on Saturday evening. | 39:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 39:54 |
Felix Armfield | And you'd catch the train down at the post office. | 39:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | It wasn't a post office at that time. | 39:57 |
Felix Armfield | What was there? | 40:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | It was a little building. | 40:04 |
Felix Armfield | Just for the train station? | 40:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 40:09 |
Felix Armfield | When did the post office come? | 40:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Hmm. Well, I can remember when I was born, that old man, he's bringing the mail up— | 40:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:40:27] | 40:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —from New Iberia by horse and buggy. | 40:28 |
Felix Armfield | When you were born, right? | 40:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Mm-hmm. | 40:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:40:35] Avery Island [indistinct 00:40:40] | 40:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We had a mail man come out and go get his and bring it— | 40:48 |
Rosalind Miller | I'm pretty sure you turn here. | 40:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | —back down here. | 40:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Lord, thank goodness we missed the rain today. | 40:48 |
Rosalind Miller | Yeah. | 40:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Believe it or not, we made about 30 miles. | 40:48 |
Felix Armfield | Hmm? | 40:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | We went about 30 miles. | 40:48 |
Felix Armfield | You think so? All that island was about 30 miles? | 40:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. As far as my little garden. Last time I clocked it, it was about 25. Now, there were a lot of places I didn't go where we went today. | 40:48 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 40:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | All that land on that side belongs to that lady that [indistinct 00:42:36] in the family. On this side too. All that sugar cane belongs to her. And this used to be a coconut orchard. They cut all the coconut trees down and planted sugar cane. [indistinct 00:43:21] they live in it all that many years out there, and they had to move. | 42:38 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. When you had to leave off Avery Island? | 43:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 43:35 |
Felix Armfield | So, it's been difficult for you living here back in New Iberia? | 43:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. I'm beginning to get used to it. | 43:39 |
Felix Armfield | But you've made it clear, now, that that's where you wanted to be buried, back on Avery Island? | 43:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 43:51 |
Felix Armfield | Ms. Russell, is that where you want to be buried? | 43:52 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, sir. | 43:56 |
Felix Armfield | Where do you want to be buried, Mrs. Russell? | 43:59 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:44:02] cemetery [indistinct 00:44:04] | 43:59 |
Felix Armfield | So, you not going to be buried with your husband, huh? | 44:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:44:09] | 44:08 |
Felix Armfield | Say what? | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:44:13] buried in [indistinct 00:44:14] | 44:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, you all keep in your own graveyard. You had to pay $70 and something to keep [indistinct 00:44:32] | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, you don't. Not [indistinct 00:44:34]. That's the graves they talking about. | 44:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I don't know. | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | You don't pay nothing [indistinct 00:44:38] | 44:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | [indistinct 00:44:52] you want to be buried by your people. | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:44:56] | 44:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Nothing. | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:44:57] | 44:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Nothing. | 44:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | Buried by your people or buried away from your people, it's not doing anything to your soul. | 44:08 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, this looks like we see what the family quorums is coming about. | 45:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | How long you been down in this way? | 45:36 |
Felix Armfield | Three weeks. | 45:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah? | 45:38 |
Felix Armfield | Three weeks. Have you ever been to North Carolina, Mr. Russell? | 45:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | No. | 45:48 |
Felix Armfield | Well, we'll have to get you to North Carolina sometime so we can show you some things in North Carolina. | 45:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I been to Chicago; St. Louis; Washington, DC; Maryland; Philadelphia; Kansas City; and Kentucky; Las Vegas; the boardwalk that's in Atlantic City. | 45:56 |
Felix Armfield | Well, you've done quite a bit of traveling, I see. | 46:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Mm-hmm. | 46:34 |
Felix Armfield | And you missed North Carolina in all that travel? | 46:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Right. | 46:41 |
Felix Armfield | You haven't seen anything until you've seen North Carolina. | 46:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | What's that? | 46:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | Tennessee. | 46:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you were right there at North Carolina when you went to Tennessee. | 46:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Yeah. | 46:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:46:51] | 46:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Well, I had to— | 46:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:46:59] | 46:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | I seen that Lookout Mountain. | 46:50 |
Felix Armfield | Oh. You've been to Lookout Mountain? Oh. | 47:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr. | Now— | 47:08 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | —more questions? | 0:05 |
Felix Armfield | I mean, might as well we going right as turn. | 0:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Uh-huh. I know where I'm going now. | 0:11 |
Felix Armfield | I thought you were telling me not to ask you no more questions. | 0:24 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | No. | 0:26 |
Nancy V. Russell | I thought he was saying, too. | 0:26 |
Felix Armfield | You didn't gotten talking yet have you, Mr. Russell? | 0:30 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Huh? | 0:35 |
Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:00:35]. | 0:35 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | I don't know too much about New Iberia. | 0:35 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, but you knew a heck of a lot about Avery Island, though. | 0:41 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, yeah. | 0:44 |
Felix Armfield | You knew a whole lot about New Iberia—I mean, about Avery Island. | 0:47 |
Felix Armfield | Who do you think knew the most about Avery Island, you or the McIlhennys? | 0:51 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Not them, you hear? Young McIlhenny. If you got one of the Averys, [indistinct 00:00:58], she's [indistinct 00:00:58]'s oldest one left on Avery Island that know everything. | 0:57 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. So, where do the McIlhennys live now? | 0:57 |
Nancy V. Russell | Some of them— | 0:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | You have one live out there. | 1:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:01:36]. | 1:01 |
Felix Armfield | One still lives out on Avery Island? | 1:36 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Well, two of them. | 1:48 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 1:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:01:49] are dead. | 1:48 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And one lived where [indistinct 00:01:49] in the middle of the road. He and his wife separated. He'd come back and forth. He live in Lafayette. He wasn't there- | 1:50 |
Felix Armfield | Just sort of spread all out now, huh? | 2:03 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Right. | 2:03 |
Felix Armfield | They still run the Tabasco company and everything? | 2:11 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Oh, yeah. Yeah, [indistinct 00:02:17]. | 2:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Get in the left, you have to get in the other lane [indistinct 00:02:28]. | 2:20 |
Felix Armfield | The cleaners closed on me. The cleaners closed on me. | 2:36 |
Nancy V. Russell | One of [indistinct 00:02:42] friends is not, youngest son's godfather. | 2:41 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 2:42 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | When he died, he left him $10,000. | 2:42 |
Felix Armfield | Where your son at now? | 2:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | Take a left at this light. | 2:58 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Hmm? | 2:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | He's in Montgomery, Alabama. | 2:58 |
Felix Armfield | When his godfather died, he left him $10,000? | 3:07 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | And a gun. | 3:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:03:10]. He must've been godfather by 14 or 15 children. He was— | 3:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | That's [indistinct 00:03:17] Black, though. | 3:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | Everyone's [indistinct 00:03:20] Black. | 3:10 |
Felix Armfield | Really? | 3:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah, but, he said he left all of them, those workers, all $10,000. | 3:10 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Tax-free. He fixed it up that they didn't have to pay any tax. $10,000 and rifle worth $2,000 and a piece of bronze worth $2,000. | 3:30 |
Felix Armfield | Why y'all didn't tell them I wanted a godfather, too? (all laugh) | 3:56 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | The lady I worked for was his godmother. | 4:06 |
Felix Armfield | That air's getting cool up here for y'all. Y'all okay back there? | 4:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | The right [indistinct 00:04:20]. | 4:06 |
Felix Armfield | Take a right here? | 4:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 4:06 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, I'm thinking about Providence. | 4:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Passed it. | 4:06 |
Felix Armfield | I know. | 4:06 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | Back home, again? | 4:06 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, now what's Mr. Patterson going to say? | 4:30 |
Felix Armfield | Thank you so much, Mr. Russell. You know what? | 4:47 |
James Lee Russell Sr. | What? | 4:49 |
Felix Armfield | Today is August the 8th, isn't it? | 0:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 0:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | This is my son's birthday. | 0:12 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, [indistinct 00:00:17]. Rufus is his name. | 0:15 |
Nancy V. Russell | Rufus. And yesterday was James' birthday, my other son. | 0:17 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. I met James the first time I was here, right? | 0:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | Uh-huh. | 0:24 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Well, today is August 8th, 1994, and I'm about to wrap up my interview with the Russells, and I'm about to get the paperwork on Mr. Russell. Mr. Russell, your last name is spelled, R-U-S-S-E-L-L? | 0:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 0:45 |
Felix Armfield | And your first name is James. | 0:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 0:46 |
Felix Armfield | Do you have a middle name? | 0:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | L, Lee. | 0:48 |
Felix Armfield | James Lee Russell. And that's senior? | 0:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 1:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And the street address here is what? | 1:01 |
Nancy V. Russell | French. 924 French Street. | 1:12 |
Felix Armfield | 924 French. What's the zip code here? | 1:24 |
Nancy V. Russell | 70560. | 1:25 |
Felix Armfield | I should remember that by now, huh? What's your date of birth, Mr. Russell? | 1:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 1910. | 1:36 |
Felix Armfield | What was the month and day? | 1:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | January 31st. | 1:38 |
Felix Armfield | January 1st? | 1:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 31st. | 1:42 |
Felix Armfield | 31st. Oh, okay. I thought you was trying to say you were a New Year's baby. | 1:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | No, it was in the first month. | 1:47 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 1:47 |
Nancy V. Russell | 31st. | 1:47 |
Felix Armfield | And you were born where? | 1:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Avery Island. | 1:58 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island. And that's part of Iberia Parish, isn't it? | 2:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 2:06 |
Felix Armfield | What do you want to classify yourself as, your work that you did all your life, what you want to call it? | 2:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Well, caretaker and butler. | 2:21 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 3:44 |
Felix Armfield | What's the phone number here? | 3:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 3, 6— | 3:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | 361-8881. | 3:45 |
Felix Armfield | And for the official record, Mr. Russell, where you're going to be listed when the materials are housed at Duke University, do you want your name spelled as James—Do you want L. Russell or Lee Russell? | 3:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Either one. | 4:12 |
Felix Armfield | Now, Mrs. Russell, what's your first name? | 4:31 |
Nancy V. Russell | Nancy. | 4:35 |
Felix Armfield | Nancy. Do you have a middle name? | 4:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | V. V. | 4:35 |
Felix Armfield | Nancy Lee? | 4:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | V. | 4:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | V. It's my maiden name. [indistinct 00:04:46]. | 4:43 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, Russell. Okay. What's your birthdate, Ms. Russell? | 4:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Eighth month, 24th, '11. | 4:55 |
Felix Armfield | You've got a birthday coming up soon, too. Mine is on the 27th. | 5:03 |
Nancy V. Russell | Really? | 5:06 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah. Where were you born, Ms. Russell? | 5:07 |
Nancy V. Russell | New Iberia. | 5:12 |
Felix Armfield | And what did you do, were you a housewife? Or, what did you do, Ms. Russell? | 5:29 |
Nancy V. Russell | Well, I worked as a cook. | 5:34 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, Mr. Russell, what was your mother's first name? | 5:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Charlotte Simms. | 5:53 |
Felix Armfield | Charlotte? | 5:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Simms. | 5:53 |
Felix Armfield | Simms? | 5:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 5:59 |
Felix Armfield | That was her maiden name, right? | 6:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 6:02 |
Felix Armfield | S-I-M-M? | 6:03 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | S. | 6:03 |
Felix Armfield | M-M-S. Oh, Simms. Okay. And she was Charlotte Simms Russell? | 6:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 6:15 |
Felix Armfield | Do you recall your mother's birthday? I should have gotten it off the tombstone, shouldn't I, while I was out there, when we went to the cemetery. | 6:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I done forgot. | 6:31 |
Felix Armfield | D0 you remember when your mother died? | 6:33 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | '57. Nineteen— | 6:40 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember the month? | 6:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I forgot that. | 6:47 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. 1957 though, right? | 6:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. March. | 6:48 |
Felix Armfield | In March of 1957. Was your mother born on Avery Island, also? | 6:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 7:02 |
Felix Armfield | And what did your mother do for a living? | 7:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Housewife. I don't remember her working. | 7:26 |
Felix Armfield | Did she work for the McIlhennys, also? | 7:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, I don't remember her working. | 7:38 |
Felix Armfield | You don't remember her working? | 7:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No. | 7:44 |
Felix Armfield | So, she was a housewife? | 7:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 7:44 |
Felix Armfield | She didn't ever work in the pepper fields? Or in the sugar cane? | 7:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Not that I know of. | 7:54 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 7:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | She never said. | 7:54 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. What was your father's first name? | 8:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | William Russell. | 8:06 |
Felix Armfield | Did Mr. Russell have a middle name? | 8:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Not that I know of. | 8:15 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Do you remember his birthdate? Okay. When did your father die? | 8:19 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 1940. | 8:28 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember the month? | 8:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | February. I forgot the date. | 8:38 |
Felix Armfield | That's okay. February, 1940. Was your father born on Avery Island, also? | 8:42 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 8:43 |
Felix Armfield | And what did your father do for a living? | 8:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | He worked in a pepper plant, tobacco plant. | 9:01 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. How many sisters and brothers did you have? | 9:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | One sister and— | 9:39 |
Nancy V. Russell | Three brothers. | 9:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Three brothers. | 9:47 |
Felix Armfield | Can you remember all their names? | 9:47 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 9:51 |
Felix Armfield | And can you give me their names from the oldest to the youngest? | 9:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Okay. | 9:56 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 9:58 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Joseph Russell. | 9:59 |
Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 10:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | William Russell, Junior. Actually, that would be the third, wouldn't it have been? | 10:08 |
Felix Armfield | You were the third child? | 10:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, I— | 10:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | William would be the third. | 10:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | William Russell III. Because his grandfather was named— | 10:10 |
Felix Armfield | I see, I see. So, he was William Russell III. Gotcha. Now, who was after William? | 10:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Nathan. | 10:42 |
Felix Armfield | Nathan. And who was after Nathan? | 10:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | James. | 10:51 |
Felix Armfield | Then it was you. | 10:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 10:54 |
Felix Armfield | And then it was your sister? | 10:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, [indistinct 00:10:59]. | 10:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | Your sister come [indistinct 00:11:02]. | 10:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | My sister came after— | 10:54 |
Nancy V. Russell | After Joseph. | 10:54 |
Felix Armfield | She was between Joseph and William? | 11:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 11:05 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. What was her name? | 11:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Mary Theresa Russell. | 11:08 |
Felix Armfield | You were the youngest child? | 11:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 11:23 |
Felix Armfield | So, there were five children? | 11:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 11:29 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And your brother, his name was not Nathaniel, it was Nathan? | 11:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Nathan, yeah. | 11:36 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, gotcha. All right. You were born in 1910. How much older than you was Nathan? How many years older? | 11:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Five years, yes, sir. | 11:53 |
Felix Armfield | So, he was born in 1905? | 11:53 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 11:53 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember his month? | 11:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | December the 18th. Now them other, I can't tell you. | 11:58 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. You don't know how many years older— | 12:05 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Joe, my oldest brother, was 16 years older than me. | 12:16 |
Felix Armfield | 60 years? | 12:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 16. | 12:18 |
Felix Armfield | He was 16 years older than you. | 12:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 12:18 |
Felix Armfield | My goodness. Well, you were born in 1910, minus 16. Let's see, four—Wait a minute. Oh, I've got to make that an eight, make that a 10, that was what? That's a nine—He was born in 1894. You don't remember the month of his birthday, do you? | 12:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | June 31st. June 4th. | 12:42 |
Felix Armfield | June 4th? | 12:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 12:49 |
Felix Armfield | And he was born in 1894. Now, what about William? | 12:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | William, the closest— | 12:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | He was born in 18— | 12:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | The closest I can give you was William, I want to say. He died in 1926. | 13:07 |
Felix Armfield | 1926. | 13:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Helping [indistinct 00:13:18]. | 13:16 |
Felix Armfield | Now, do you know how old he was when he died? | 13:18 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 26. | 13:20 |
Felix Armfield | He was 26 when he died? | 13:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 13:23 |
Felix Armfield | Well, he was born in 1900. Do you remember the month? | 13:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. June 30th. | 13:27 |
Felix Armfield | June 30th. I knew somebody was June 30th when you said it. | 13:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Joe was June 4th. | 13:35 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Joseph was June 4th, 1894. William was June 30th, 1900. Nathan was December 18th, 1905. What about Mary? She came between Joseph and William. | 13:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I'd say about two years difference. | 13:58 |
Felix Armfield | Between she and Joseph? | 14:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 14:02 |
Felix Armfield | Joseph was two years older than she? | 14:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 14:04 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember— | 14:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Or about three. | 14:04 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 14:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | About two or three. But I— | 14:04 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember the day and month of her birthday? | 14:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I sure don't. | 14:15 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, we're going to say that she was born somewhere between 1896 and 1897. Okay. Are any of your other brothers and sisters alive? | 14:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, I'm the last one. | 14:34 |
Felix Armfield | And we know that William died in 1926. Do you recall when Joseph died? | 14:37 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | When did Joseph die? Seven— | 14:41 |
Nancy V. Russell | He died Christmas Day. | 14:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 1970. | 14:50 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:14:56]. | 14:50 |
Felix Armfield | December 25th, 1970? | 14:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No. About '70 or '72. But I think it was '70. | 14:56 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, we can take that. Don't worry about it. Okay. What about Nathan? | 15:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Nathan died 1980. Now, what— | 15:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | Nathan [indistinct 00:15:24]. | 15:20 |
Felix Armfield | Do you remember the month? | 15:23 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I can't recall it. | 15:24 |
Felix Armfield | But it was 1980? | 15:24 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 15:24 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. What about your sister, Mary? | 15:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | She died in 1921. | 15:39 |
Felix Armfield | 1921? | 15:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Mm-hmm. | 15:39 |
Felix Armfield | So, she was fairly young when she died. | 15:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah, she was. And, that's it. | 15:50 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, that's everybody. That was everybody. Okay. Now, were all your children born on Avery Island? | 16:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 16:08 |
Felix Armfield | Okay, they all were born on Avery Island. Okay. Now, how many children did you have? | 16:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Six. | 16:22 |
Felix Armfield | You have six. Can I have all their names, from the oldest to the youngest, whether they are dead or alive? Give me their names in order, your children, from the oldest to the youngest. | 16:22 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mary Louise. | 16:43 |
Felix Armfield | She was the oldest? | 16:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 16:45 |
Felix Armfield | Mary Louise Russell. Right? | 16:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 16:46 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And who was after Mary Louise? | 16:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mattie Lee. | 16:50 |
Felix Armfield | And that's spelled M-A— | 16:53 |
Nancy V. Russell | T-T-I-E. And then L-E-E. | 16:54 |
Felix Armfield | She was— | 16:56 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Mattie L., Mary L. | 16:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:17:05]. | 17:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Mary Louise. Mary L. Russell, and Mattie L. Russell. | 17:04 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah, we got that. | 17:09 |
Nancy V. Russell | Gosh, he knows that. | 17:09 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Who's after Mattie? | 17:10 |
Nancy V. Russell | William Russell. [indistinct 00:17:14]. | 17:12 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | James. | 17:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | James L. Russell, Jr. | 17:13 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:13 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:17:14]. | 17:13 |
Felix Armfield | James Russell, Jr., right? | 17:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 17:17 |
Felix Armfield | And who was after James? | 17:30 |
Nancy V. Russell | Rufus Russell. | 17:32 |
Children | [indistinct 00:17:42]? | 17:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | Huh? I'm busy right now, baby. | 17:32 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. One, two, three, four, five. You've got one more. Who's after- | 17:46 |
Nancy V. Russell | Edward Russell. | 17:49 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Is that all of them? Mary, Mattie, William, James, Rufus, and Edward. Okay. Can I get their birth dates? What about Mary Louise? | 17:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 1933. | 18:08 |
Felix Armfield | What's the month? | 18:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | November what? | 18:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:18:09]. | 18:08 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | '33? | 18:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | That's when she was born, yeah. | 18:08 |
Felix Armfield | Yeah, that's what we want. | 18:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh. | 18:08 |
Felix Armfield | November what? | 18:08 |
Nancy V. Russell | November the 18th. | 18:08 |
Felix Armfield | November the 18th, 1933. Now, what about Mattie? | 18:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | November— | 18:23 |
Nancy V. Russell | November the 27th. | 18:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 27th. She probably is [indistinct 00:18:45]. | 18:30 |
Felix Armfield | 1938? | 18:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | '38. | 18:45 |
Felix Armfield | You all have an excellent memory. I've had people who couldn't tell me these dates. And the way you told me the dates of your brothers and sisters? Your memory is good. Okay, what about William? | 18:51 |
Nancy V. Russell | September the 15th, 1930— | 19:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No. | 19:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. I mean— | 19:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | '40. | 19:12 |
Nancy V. Russell | —1940. Where did I get that at? When did I say Mattie was born? In 19- | 19:12 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 1938. | 19:12 |
Felix Armfield | 1938. | 19:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | They're all two years apart. | 19:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 19:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Except the oldest. | 19:48 |
Felix Armfield | So, when was James? | 19:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | August the 7th. | 19:48 |
Felix Armfield | 1942? | 19:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 19:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 19:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mattie was 1940. | 19:48 |
Felix Armfield | And what's his month? | 19:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | I guess it was August. [indistinct 00:19:49] all the dates. | 19:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, Rufus is not 40. | 19:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Rufus is 50. I didn't say he was 40, James. | 19:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 19:48 |
Felix Armfield | August the 8th, 1944. | 19:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 19:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 19:49 |
Felix Armfield | And what about Edward? | 19:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Edward was born in— | 19:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | September. | 19:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | September the 23rd, 19— | 19:49 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | 19— | 19:49 |
Nancy V. Russell | Wait, James. 1952. | 19:50 |
Felix Armfield | 1952. So, that's your youngest child? | 20:06 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 20:11 |
Felix Armfield | And where is he now? | 20:11 |
Nancy V. Russell | He's in Montgomery, Alabama. He wasn't— | 20:12 |
Felix Armfield | Now, are all your children living? But you said Mary— | 20:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | The oldest one is dead. | 20:23 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And when did she die? | 20:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | She died New Year's Day, four years ago. | 20:26 |
Felix Armfield | January the 1st, 1990? | 20:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 20:34 |
Felix Armfield | But all your other children are alive? | 20:43 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 20:45 |
Felix Armfield | Mattie, William, James, Rufus, and Edward. | 20:45 |
Nancy V. Russell | Right. | 20:47 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And were they all born on Avery Island? | 20:48 |
Nancy V. Russell | Edward was born here in New Iberia at the hospital. Other than that, they was all born on— | 20:53 |
Felix Armfield | I'm sorry. When I asked you a while ago, Mr. Russell, were all your children born on Avery Island, were all you and your brothers and sisters born on Avery Island? | 21:01 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 21:07 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. | 21:07 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes, we were. | 21:07 |
Felix Armfield | All right. And you do have grandchildren? | 21:20 |
Nancy V. Russell | Mm-hmm. | 21:22 |
Felix Armfield | And how many do you have? | 21:25 |
Nancy V. Russell | 12. | 21:25 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, man. Do you keep up with all of them? | 21:28 |
Nancy V. Russell | No. | 21:30 |
Felix Armfield | Can you keep up with all of them? I guess it's not bad. But you have what, six children? | 21:32 |
Nancy V. Russell | I have two great. | 21:38 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, so the family's still growing, huh? | 21:42 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yeah. | 21:43 |
Felix Armfield | Still growing. Now you all have— | 21:44 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:21:47] and that's my great-grandchildren. | 21:47 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, these are great-grands that just walked in. Oh. Well, now you've all basically lived out on Avery Island all your life. | 21:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 21:56 |
Nancy V. Russell | Not me. I went out there the day I got married. Oh, yeah. 61 years. | 21:57 |
Felix Armfield | You've been there all your life. You've been there 61 years. So, you were there all your life. 1910, up until—You came here just eight months ago, 1994? And now you're in New Iberia. | 22:05 |
Nancy V. Russell | Yes. | 22:22 |
Felix Armfield | And you've been here since 1994. Okay. | 22:27 |
Felix Armfield | Now, Mr. Avery, how much education did you receive? Oh, my goodness. I am so sorry. Mr. Russell. | 22:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | [indistinct 00:22:45]. | 22:40 |
Felix Armfield | I'm so glad that you don't take this personally, and you can laugh at it. Forgive me. You all practically own Avery Island. I don't know why I missed, but I could call you all Mr. and Mrs. Avery. I'm sorry. But no, Mr. Russell. You got through sixth grade? | 22:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. Right. | 23:01 |
Felix Armfield | And what was the name of the school out there that you went to? | 23:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Avery Island Public School at that time. | 23:17 |
Felix Armfield | Avery Island Public School. But it was for Colored, though, right? | 23:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 23:27 |
Felix Armfield | Because there was a White school there also, right? | 23:31 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 23:34 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. About when did you start going to school, Mr. Russell? | 23:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I was about— | 23:44 |
Felix Armfield | How old were you? | 23:44 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Let's see. I was about nine. Nine years old. | 23:53 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. So, you started in 1919, let's say. And you went up to the sixth grade. You went straight through then, right? | 23:55 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 24:05 |
Felix Armfield | To the sixth grade. So, it took you six years. So, you stopped going to school in 1925, and started working? | 24:06 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 24:14 |
Felix Armfield | Correct? Okay. And you were the caretaker and butler, right? | 24:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 24:20 |
Felix Armfield | And the McIlhenny's were your employees, right? | 24:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. Because I went from one brother and sister, to the next brother and sister. | 24:22 |
Felix Armfield | So, you worked for that family all your life? | 24:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 24:55 |
Felix Armfield | So, you started to work for them in 1925, and you worked for them up until when? When did you stop working? | 25:02 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | In 1987. | 25:11 |
Felix Armfield | I thought that was an interesting story that you was telling me about the fact that they left you that house for yours, for life. | 25:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 25:36 |
Felix Armfield | Now what did you say about that? | 25:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Their mother gave it to me first, and she died. | 25:42 |
Felix Armfield | And what year did she give it to you? | 25:50 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | In '57. | 25:52 |
Felix Armfield | 1957. Okay. | 25:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | And the daughter died in '80. She gave it to me before she died. | 25:52 |
Felix Armfield | So, they passed it right on to you, huh? | 25:52 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | And the son told me the same thing. That's my home. As long as I want live there, no keep or nothing. Just pay my utilities. | 25:58 |
Felix Armfield | All right, sir. So the house remains yours, to this day? | 26:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 26:38 |
Felix Armfield | I see. Now, have you ever received any awards or honors that you want to mention here? That's okay. And your religious denomination? | 26:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I'm a Catholic. | 26:53 |
Felix Armfield | You're a Catholic. And what church are you affiliated with? | 26:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Saint Edward. | 26:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | You boys go there? | 26:58 |
Children | [indistinct 00:27:08]. | 26:58 |
Nancy V. Russell | Oh, the baby? That's a big baby. Hey, y'all leaving? | 27:11 |
Children | Yeah. | 27:14 |
Nancy V. Russell | All right. [indistinct 00:27:19]. | 27:14 |
Felix Armfield | You didn't serve in the military, did you? | 27:29 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, I did not. | 27:34 |
Felix Armfield | Did you sign up for the draft? | 27:34 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes, I did. | 27:37 |
Felix Armfield | You did. But for the Second World War, right? | 27:39 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 27:40 |
Felix Armfield | And what happened? Why they didn't draft you? | 27:41 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I was Class 1-A. | 27:44 |
Felix Armfield | And what did that mean? | 27:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | They classified me as a farmer. | 27:49 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. So, the 1-A meant that you were a farmer, and therefore they usually didn't bother you, huh? | 27:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No. | 28:04 |
Felix Armfield | Were you glad that you didn't have to go? | 28:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No, indeed not. | 28:04 |
Felix Armfield | You wanted to go to war? | 28:04 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I wanted to go. | 28:04 |
Felix Armfield | Why'd you want to go? | 28:09 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | All my other friends was going. And I just wanted to be with them. | 28:09 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, so everybody else went, but you didn't. Well, you were working for the McIlhenny's then, right? | 28:21 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 28:25 |
Felix Armfield | And they made certain, they didn't want you to go, because they wanted you to stay there and work, I bet. | 28:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah, I guess so. | 28:30 |
Felix Armfield | But you wanted to go. Did all your friends make it back from the war? | 28:35 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes. | 28:37 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Let's see. What do you like doing these days, Mr. Russell? Just for fun, just for relaxation, just for leisure, what do you do? | 28:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I go on a trip most Saturdays. Yeah. | 28:52 |
Felix Armfield | So, you like to travel some, huh? | 28:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. Go to church. Go to my club meetings. | 29:01 |
Felix Armfield | What club meetings? | 29:11 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I belong to Vanders Social Club. | 29:19 |
Felix Armfield | You belong to what? | 29:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Vanders Social Club. | 29:24 |
Felix Armfield | Now what's that? | 29:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | That's the name of it. | 29:28 |
Felix Armfield | And it's called Vanders? | 29:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. Social Club. | 29:28 |
Felix Armfield | Vanders. V-A-R— | 29:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | V-A-N-D. | 29:28 |
Felix Armfield | V-A-N-D-E-R? | 29:36 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | S. | 29:42 |
Felix Armfield | Social Club. | 29:43 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | Is that like a [indistinct 00:29:47] club, or something? | 29:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | No. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | Is it all men? | 29:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes. | 29:45 |
Felix Armfield | Is it all Black men? | 29:51 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 29:52 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. And what kind of thing—(doorbell rings) | 29:53 |
Felix Armfield | There's someone at the door. And what kind of things do you all do? | 29:55 |
Nancy V. Russell | [indistinct 00:29:59]. | 29:58 |
Felix Armfield | What kind of things do you all do? | 30:00 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | We have barbecues and dinners. We invite our wives. | 30:01 |
Felix Armfield | So, it's strictly a social club. | 30:15 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 30:17 |
Felix Armfield | Do you pay dues? | 30:17 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 30:19 |
Felix Armfield | And it's all men. | 30:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 30:21 |
Felix Armfield | And all Black men. | 30:22 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | And I belong to the Knights of Peter Claver. | 30:23 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, you belong to the Knights of Peter Claver? | 30:28 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I'm a 4th degree. | 30:30 |
Felix Armfield | Huh? | 30:30 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I'm a 4th degree in the Knights. | 30:30 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, really? Now what does that mean? | 30:40 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | As far as I can go. | 30:43 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, so you're at the top, then. | 30:45 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 30:46 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Anything else you belong to? | 30:48 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | I belong to a booster club at St. Edwards. | 30:51 |
Felix Armfield | At St. Edwards? | 30:54 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 30:54 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Is that it? | 31:10 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. | 31:11 |
Felix Armfield | You've got enough to keep you busy, that's for certain. Okay. I just about finished the paperwork. I am finished, as a matter of fact. I just need your signature to say that it's okay for us to house the tapes and the materials that we've gathered from you, since I've been here. And I just need a signature. Can you provide me with that? | 31:13 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yeah. If there's no red tape behind it. | 31:39 |
Felix Armfield | No red tape behind it. Trust me. No red tape. I wouldn't stand for any red tape. I'd come back personally and take care of it. | 31:44 |
Speaker 4 | We want a copy for the [indistinct 00:31:57]. | 31:57 |
Felix Armfield | Of course. Of course. I would probably like to put myself—right here on this line, Mr. Russell. I'll deliver it myself, personally. | 31:57 |
Speaker 4 | How long do you think [indistinct 00:32:12]? | 32:09 |
Felix Armfield | Well, actually, this is a three-summer project. | 32:12 |
Speaker 4 | Okay. | 32:15 |
Felix Armfield | Last summer, they just fanned out through five other States in the South. This summer we've been through five States: Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama. Next summer we're going to do the other five. | 32:15 |
Speaker 4 | Okay. So, about two years from now, you'd say? | 32:32 |
Felix Armfield | There'll be some stuff. And what we are going to do is, these are going back to Duke, and they're going to get ready and start transcribing what we've done already. And each of us are to select what's going to be considered our best interviews for immediate transcription. And clearly, I haven't had anything to top it. So, this is certainly one that I'll be recommending when we get back to Duke next week, that this one be transcribed right away, and made for immediate use. | 32:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes. | 33:10 |
Felix Armfield | I'd like to see this copy sent back into this area immediately, such that people can—Because clearly, I got an inside look at Avery Island. | 33:12 |
Speaker 4 | So, you enjoyed that? | 33:24 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, it was fabulous. Nothing to top that. | 33:25 |
Felix Armfield | And the interesting thing is that I've talked to people about my tour on Thursday. And people who are from this area were saying, "You saw that? We've never seen that when we've gone." So, I think that's certainly going to be good for the school purposes, that they are planning to try and incorporate this stuff into the classroom teaching here, also. | 33:27 |
Felix Armfield | And no doubt it's desperately needed. | 33:53 |
Speaker 4 | Oh, definitely. | 33:56 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell? | 33:57 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Yes? | 33:59 |
Felix Armfield | As we get ready and close out this interview, do you have any closing comments? Anything your heart so desires, say it. You're in history now. This one's on you. | 33:59 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Nothing at this time that I can think of. | 34:13 |
Felix Armfield | Nothing at this time. Wait. Is Jim Crow dead or alive? | 34:20 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Jim Crow is dead. | 34:25 |
Felix Armfield | Jim Crow is dead. | 34:25 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | To me. | 34:25 |
Felix Armfield | Jim Crow's dead to you. | 34:26 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | It always been. | 34:27 |
Felix Armfield | He always was. | 34:29 |
Speaker 4 | No, [indistinct 00:34:32] Jim Crow. | 34:32 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Jim Crow. How did you guys— | 34:32 |
Speaker 4 | I'm sorry. | 34:35 |
Felix Armfield | Mr. Russell, so you say Jim Crow is alive. Jim Crow didn't bother you [indistinct 00:34:45], right? | 34:38 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | Right. | 34:44 |
Felix Armfield | Okay. Thank you so much for your time. Unless you have something else to say? | 34:46 |
James Lee Russell, Sr | That's all. | 34:50 |
Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. All right. This concludes my four-tape interview with Mr. James Russell, and that lovely lady's voice that you've heard on this tape is his wife, Mrs. Nancy Russell. And again, I'm Felix Armfield, and this concludes this interview with the Russells of New Iberia, Louisiana. | 34:54 |
Item Info
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