Eugene Montgomery interview recording, 1994 August 02
Loading the media player...
Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Charles Houston | I'd like to begin, Mr. Montgomery, by asking you to state your name, your birthdate and your place of birth, please. | 0:00 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Eugene A.R. Montgomery, February the eighth, 1923, Orangeburg, South Carolina. | 0:09 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 0:20 |
Charles Houston | And is your family from Orangeburg, as far as back as you know? | 0:20 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, my mother parents father was a Methodist minister and my father came here from Hogansville, Georgia. | 0:24 |
Charles Houston | From Hogansville? | 0:35 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Hogansville. | 0:35 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And do you know what his family did there? | 0:36 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, I don't. | 0:45 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 0:45 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He had some brothers and sisters, I think. He was the only one who came. The rest of them, I don't know. | 0:47 |
Charles Houston | Do you know when and why he came? I guess he came to take a church here. | 0:58 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, no. This was my father. | 1:02 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 1:04 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He came here because he had an uncle here who lived here and really he came to get away, I guess they were poor as I don't know what, to live with his aunt and uncle and to go to school. | 1:05 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you said your father was a Methodist minister? | 1:23 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | My mother's father. | 1:28 |
Charles Houston | Oh, your mother's father. | 1:29 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Right. | 1:31 |
Charles Houston | And he was from Hogansville? | 1:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. | 1:40 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Your father was from— | 1:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | My father was from Hogansville. | 1:40 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And he came here to go to school, lived with his aunt and uncle. Where did he go to school, your dad? | 1:41 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Claflin. | 1:45 |
Charles Houston | Claflin. And so, he went to the high school and the college? | 1:46 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, just high school. | 1:52 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And about when was that, that he came? | 1:53 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I have no idea. | 2:05 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Do you know when he was born, roughly? | 2:07 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. | 2:18 |
Charles Houston | Okay. We may can figure that out later. He came here and he went to Claflin. And what happened then, next? | 2:18 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I suppose he and my mother got married because my mother went to Claflin also. But, at that time, Claflin was what they call a normal—See, my father died when I was, I don't know, four or five or six years old. | 2:39 |
Charles Houston | How old was he when he died? | 3:03 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I think he was 55. He was in his fifties. | 3:05 |
Charles Houston | You said you think he was 55? If you were five years old, that means he was born 50 years before you were and 50 years before 23 was '70? No. Yeah. He was about 50 when you were born? | 3:14 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Probably so. Okay. | 3:30 |
Charles Houston | Okay. That means that he was born approximately 1873. And that would've made him—Yeah, that would've made him about 50 years old in 1923, which is when were born, and about 55, at the top of the steps, when you were between four and six. Did your father become a teacher then, after going to Claflin? What did he do? | 3:36 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | My father ran a grocery store and meat market. | 4:09 |
Charles Houston | And where was that located? | 4:14 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Out here in Orangeburg. | 4:21 |
Charles Houston | Was it in the Railroad Corner area? | 4:25 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | It was over—Yeah. Right on the Russell Street side of the Railroad Corner. | 4:29 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And do you know, approximately, what age did he—Was this the first thing he began doing after he got out of school or did he work his way into the grocery business slowly? | 4:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I don't know. | 4:49 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 4:49 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | At the earliest age, I remember the grocery store. | 4:59 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 5:02 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. I don't think he finished Claflin because I don't remember ever seeing a diploma. | 5:02 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 5:13 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I remember seeing my mother—In fact, because I had my mother's diploma. | 5:15 |
Charles Houston | And did your mother become a teacher? Was she— | 5:24 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I never heard my mother say anything about teaching. | 5:28 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 5:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | She stayed home. | 5:40 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 5:41 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Until my father died, then she had to go to work. | 5:44 |
Charles Houston | You said your earliest memories are of your father's store and he was on Railroad Corner. Presumably, most of his clientele was Black. Or was it entirely Black? | 5:53 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He had a little White. | 6:08 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And would they have been people who lived in the neighborhood? I also understand that the merchants on Railroad Corner also depended on trade from the university, from the college. They got a lot of business from the college campuses. Could you describe your father's store, as you recall? I know it was a grocery store. | 6:10 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I guess you'd call it a general store. They carried, at that time, the staple groceries. And all of them had a meat market in them. | 6:44 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 6:55 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. That was— | 6:56 |
Charles Houston | He sold basically just food. Not anything— | 7:07 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. Food. | 7:10 |
Charles Houston | Were markets, at that time, social gathering places where people came to drink sodas and talk? Or was it basically just a— | 7:17 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. Late in the afternoon and on Saturdays. | 7:29 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 7:33 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 7:33 |
Charles Houston | You said that, after your father died, your mother had to go to work. What did she do when your father died? How did she carry on? | 7:50 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | She took training. Midwife training. She became a midwife. | 7:57 |
Charles Houston | Was she approximately the same age? She must have been younger than your father, if he was 50 when you were young. | 8:12 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | She might have been. I have no idea. | 8:23 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 8:30 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Let's see. My mother's been dead I think 10 years. She was 95 when she died. | 8:31 |
Charles Houston | Okay. She died in '84 and she was 95, that means she was born in '89. 1889. She was 95 and—Approximately 1889. And you said that your father was born in 70—When did we say he was born? I figured that out. Oh, '73. 1873. So she was about 16 years younger than your father. | 8:38 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I don't think it was that much difference. I don't think so. But, really, I don't know. | 9:30 |
Charles Houston | Sure. | 9:37 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I don't think so, though. | 9:37 |
Charles Houston | Okay. But, anyway, she became a midwife. | 9:39 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Right. | 9:40 |
Charles Houston | On his death. Do you know how she trained to become a midwife? Did she know a midwife who showed her the ropes? | 9:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, there was—The nurse up at State College was her brother's sister-in-law. | 9:51 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I have to think about that for a minute. | 10:25 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And the course was being offered, I don't remember whether it was at State College or where. And, through her, she got into that program. | 10:28 |
Charles Houston | What happened to the store? | 10:48 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Depression. | 10:50 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Were you an only child? | 10:50 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, no. I was the youngest. I had a brother and I have a sister. | 11:02 |
Charles Houston | And I assume your family owned its own home? | 11:06 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | The uncle that my father came to live with, they owned the property and had no children. That's how he got it. | 11:27 |
Charles Houston | Okay. This was both the store and the house or the home or the residence? | 11:44 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Just the residence. | 11:56 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 11:56 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No, he didn't own the grocery. He didn't own the building where the grocery store was in. | 11:57 |
Charles Houston | Your father leased the grocery. | 11:59 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He rent it. | 12:07 |
Charles Houston | Right. Right. That's right. I guess that's an important distinction. Renting is a little less certain, I suppose. You were really raised by, I guess, your mother and your older brother and sister. And what neighborhood did you live in here? What area? | 12:11 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I lived about a block over from here. About two blocks from here. One up, one down. | 12:41 |
Charles Houston | Okay. What's this area called? Does it have a name? | 12:46 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. No, I live in the house now I was born in. | 12:49 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 12:52 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 12:52 |
Charles Houston | When you were a boy, was it a mixed area, racially? | 12:52 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. | 12:52 |
Charles Houston | It was all Black. | 12:52 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 12:52 |
Charles Houston | This isn't—Is it Treadwell, I'm thinking of? | 12:55 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Treadwell. That's one block over. Treadwell. | 13:06 |
Charles Houston | Okay. This is the Treadwell area? | 13:07 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. This whole area around here. Yeah. | 13:07 |
Charles Houston | And where did you go to school? | 13:22 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Claflin. | 13:24 |
Charles Houston | You went there at grades one through 12? All was— | 13:33 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | All the way, one through college. | 13:40 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Yeah, I was trying to remember when the public high school opened. I think it was 1938. But, at any rate, that's not important because you were there, you were—83, '29—You were actually there. You were at Claflin about the time that high school opened up because you were there through '29 through about '41. | 13:41 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | '42. | 14:12 |
Charles Houston | '42. I think it opened then. You went to Claflin and majored in—What was your major? | 14:19 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Sociology. | 14:23 |
Charles Houston | Is that how you became interested in the NAACP? | 14:28 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | When I finished Claflin, they tried to get me to teach. They offered me a principalship over three teacher school for $75 a month. The president tried to get me, the dean tried to get me, and I had no reason for not wanting to teach, I just told him I didn't want to teach. That was all. When I graduated, I went on up to Pittsburgh and worked in the steel mill for a while. I read in the Pittsburgh Courier about this money that could be made and was opening up in defense plants. | 14:38 |
Charles Houston | This was still during the war? | 15:43 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. I went to Pittsburgh and worked in the steel mill for a while. | 15:45 |
Charles Houston | Which one did you work at? I spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh/ | 15:53 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | About 10 miles out of Pittsburgh— | 16:08 |
Charles Houston | Maybe it was the J&L Mill, I think I know which one you're talking about. I can't recall the name of it either because there was a town named named after the mill. | 16:14 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I can't recall the name of the town either. | 16:24 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 16:27 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 16:27 |
Charles Houston | But I've heard that that town was very segregated. And very— | 16:28 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Oh, yeah. | 16:33 |
Charles Houston | Very racist. | 16:34 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And I didn't think I was going to get anywhere there because the union had control of it and union was about as segregated as they get. And I had an uncle in Philadelphia, and I was doing common labor, right underground, and I saw in the paper where they had these different jobs in the shipyard over in Chester, Pennsylvania. I had an uncle in Philadelphia. I went to Philadelphia and took a course in welding at the shipyard and got hired as a welder. | 16:46 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | That made me exempt from service. I don't remember how long I was there but then I got to thinking that, damn, I'm going to be drafted when everybody else was coming home. | 17:45 |
Charles Houston | Winding down? | 18:05 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. Yeah. This was before the wind down. I came home and volunteered for the Marine Corps. | 18:06 |
Charles Houston | What year was this? | 18:17 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | This was in, I think, '44. Might have to rewrite these dates. | 18:19 |
Charles Houston | You said you graduated in '42. Was that from the high school or from college? | 18:39 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | College. College. | 18:44 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 18:44 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Went in the Marine Corps. I think I came out of Marine Corps in '46 and, after sitting on all those islands out there in the darn Pacific, I was half loony. I said, the best thing for me is get myself in school. I went to AU. School of Social Work at Atlanta University | 18:58 |
Charles Houston | For Master's? | 19:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yep. | 19:40 |
Charles Houston | You came out in '48? | 19:55 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Came out in '48, started looking for a job. They tried to get me to go onto—Had a scholarship offered to me, the University of Chicago, to work on my doctorate. And I was broke. Poor. The President of the Orangeburg branch of NAACP was the pastor at my church and, one day, I struck up a conversation, we're talking about I was looking for a job. He sent me up to Columbia, told me to go up to Columbia and talk to President of State Conference at Branches. And I went up, talked with him, got the job. | 19:57 |
Charles Houston | Now, you talked to the President of the State Conference at Branches? Okay. And I thought that was the job that you got as head of the State Conference. | 20:59 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. No. I was executive secretary. | 21:10 |
Charles Houston | Okay. What was your responsibility as executive secretary of the State Conference at Branches? | 21:12 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | To organize branches, speak before branches, in any group that we could get before, to promote the goals of the organization. At that time, in 1948, when I went aboard, they had just won the teacher equalization suit. | 21:26 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 22:13 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And that was during the time of—It was a case in court on breaking up the White Democratic primary. | 22:22 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 22:36 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Because, in '48, in the fall of '48, it was the first time that Blacks voted in Democratic primary in South Carolina. And I went to work for NAACP, what, 5th of July. 1948. | 22:42 |
Charles Houston | And Clarendon County was getting started about that time too, wasn't it? | 22:58 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yep. We had our annual State Conference meeting in the Fall, must have been in October. October of '48. And, at the annual meeting, in discussing the various things during the meeting, we said that anybody who was interested in, at that time we're talking about separate but equal, let me know. And I would come and meet with the branch and see if we could get something going. And- | 23:19 |
Charles Houston | This is on education? This is on education? | 24:16 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 24:21 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 24:21 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And the group from Clarendon County invited me—No. No, no. No, no, no. No, no. I got to scratch part of that. | 24:22 |
Charles Houston | Yeah. | 24:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | We divided the state along congressional district lines. Before, I think it must have been around '46, was when a group of Black folk in Clarendon County tried to get the school board to give them a bus for their children to ride the school on. They wouldn't give them the bus, so they raised the money and bought a bus. They wouldn't give them to get money to buy gas for the bus, so they had to do that too. And it was a suit about that. This was before '48. | 24:42 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And then the suit got thrown out because the main man in the suit lived across the school district line, so they threw it out. But, in October '48, the delegates from Clarendon County invited me to a meeting. In fact, we had set the meetings for each congressional district. The meeting for the first congressional district was in Charleston at an AME church. It was on a Saturday. | 25:29 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | In going over the program, they invited me to Manning because I knew very, very little about the previous suit and all. But that's where the Clarendon County suit started. | 26:35 |
Charles Houston | At this AME church meeting? | 27:04 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yes. | 27:05 |
Charles Houston | In Charleston. | 27:05 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | That's right. I was the speaker. And I tell you, you had so many people in that church, jammed. That's where it started. And I asked them, y'all want—You want a separate vehicle? You want to get it? Let's go. And they said, let's go. And that's where it started. Right there. | 27:06 |
Charles Houston | Now, was this—What you were attempting to do was to force the state to live up to its promise to provide separate but equal facilities. | 27:26 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 27:40 |
Charles Houston | And was this the implementation, at the local level, of a strategy that had been developed by the national organization? Had the national organization been advertising, if you will, for a test case? Were all the locals aware that the national organization would step in and back them up if someone stepped forward and was willing to go on the line, run the risks of being a plaintiff in a case like that? | 27:42 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | You are using some 1990 terms. | 28:23 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 28:26 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And I can understand that. See, you have never lived in originally segregated society. It would be difficult for you to visualize— | 28:33 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 28:50 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | All Blacks. 95, 98% of the Blacks were dirt poor. I remember, during the depression, I ate three meals a day that might have been the same thing but I did eat three meals a day, you see. I see my dad work for 50 cents a day. See, because there were no jobs, except working for White people. A few other jobs but, by and large. And, of course, they controlled everything, so they didn't want you to have anything, so there was very little at your hand. You see? And that was just it, that was just it. Poverty is really what it was. The only way that I went to Claflin was that my daddy had named me after, I was born in '23, the fellow who was President of Claflin at that time, came there in '23 and my daddy had named him, made me for him and he looked out for me. Other than that, you're damn right, I might be in CCI right now. | 29:06 |
Charles Houston | Did he know the President of Claflin? | 30:51 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He knew him after he got here. He didn't know him before. But that was the only way that I got in. I used to have to go to him every month to get a little old slip to get in class. Right? Had no money. You see? | 30:53 |
Charles Houston | In 1948, when people packed the AME church in Charleston to hear— | 31:24 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Manning. This was in Manning, South Carolina. Manning was in Clarendon County. | 31:33 |
Charles Houston | Oh, I'm sorry. | 31:35 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Manning is in Clarendon County. It was at the congressional district meeting in Charleston that they invited me— | 31:37 |
Charles Houston | Invited you to Manning. | 31:45 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | To Manning. | 31:47 |
Charles Houston | In Manning that they all packed the church and stepped forward. | 31:47 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | We were in Charleston on a Saturday and they invited me to a meeting that Monday night. | 31:52 |
Charles Houston | Okay. In this post-war period, people were really behaving differently towards segregation and discrimination. | 32:08 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | What you had, over in Clarendon County, you had about—And Clarendon County is still one of the poorest counties in this state. You had about a half a dozen men led by some AME preachers who decided that they were going to attack it. And that was the leadership. | 32:29 |
Charles Houston | Would this have happened without the State Conference, do you think? | 33:36 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. | 33:42 |
Charles Houston | Would any of these things happen? What was the role of the State Conference in acting as a catalyst for these activities? I'm— | 33:42 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | At that time, the president of the State Conference was a Reverend J.M. Hinton. He was Columbia District Manager for Pilgrim Health and Life Insurance Company. And he was a Baptist preacher. And that's where the leadership came from. | 33:54 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 34:34 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Because he used to go all over the state speaking to different branches or anywhere. And that's where it came from, see? Because, see, he was president of the State Conference when we—In the teacher suit. And when you broke the White Democratic primary. His influence was all over the state and, when you break up an institution like that, your name is all over the news, airwaves, newspapers and everything else. He was well known and had one reputation and he could preach and he could speak too. And that's where the leadership came from. | 34:53 |
Charles Houston | Okay. When Hinton went out and he spoke to these various chapters, traveling around the state, speaking to people, did he speak to them from the pulpit or did he actually sit down and have meetings with the local NAACP? Did he do both? Is that a silly question? | 36:04 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | No. I have never in my life heard anybody speak like he could speak. | 36:36 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 36:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | When he got through speaking, I had to do the work. But he made it easy. | 36:42 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 36:48 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 36:49 |
Charles Houston | Because he got people's hair standing up. | 36:57 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. When he got through speaking, they were ready to go do whatever was necessary. Because, see, it was during his presidency that you got the teacher equalization, you broke up the White primary and you had Clarendon County case school desegregation. | 36:58 |
Charles Houston | Right. Yeah. I wonder whether it was to his advantage. Too, that he was from the state and prominent in the state but not local. He could go into these communities and he understood the pressures operating against people in these communities. But he was, at the same time, removed from that. I wonder if there was an advantage to being with an entity like the State Conference of Branches, which was super local. It wasn't a local organization, it was a statewide organization and, in many ways, he would've been removed from a lot of the pressures at the local level and able to have a vision that was beyond that. It's just a speculation on my part. I'm wondering if you had any sense of that. I'm wondering what it was about the State Conference with Branches, and I guess maybe you've already answered the question, it was his personal charismatic ministerial leadership. | 37:21 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Then, by being a businessman, having been in the insurance business, because, at that time, he ran the state of South Carolina for Pilgrim Health and Life. | 38:44 |
Charles Houston | I can stop this if you want. | 39:05 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Excuse me. | 39:06 |
Charles Houston | Sure. Sorry. | 39:07 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Excuse me. | 39:10 |
Charles Houston | That's okay. | 39:10 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Let me put it this way: In South Carolina, we were ran our own show. See, when I started working with NAACP, I started for $75 a week. They raised the money and they paid me. There was no allegiance to New York. At all. You know? | 39:17 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 39:58 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | See, because—Be careful how you put this. See, because what you were saying earlier, New York wanted to run everything and he just told him, hell no, you ain't going to run nothing down here. We going to raise this money, we going to do what we want to do. | 39:58 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 40:14 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | That was it. With the teacher's case, with the White primary, it was done here. It wasn't them directing South Carolina. We don't want to do this. Come on in. Okay, fine. You know? Because I very clearly remember Clarendon County almost never happened. They were dragging their feet in New York. | 40:23 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 40:59 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | And he came to the office one Monday morning and said I don't want you to send that letter. He sent a letter to Thurgood Marshall and I typed the letter up. Let me know what you're going to do, either if you are not going to go forward with this suit, let us know, we'll drop the whole thing. That's exactly what he's told him. There was something about him that was no nonsense. And when Thurgood got that letter, he called him and, in two or three days, Thurgood was in South Carolina. | 40:59 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 41:30 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. And everybody was asking, how can he handle Thurgood like that? But we were the only state to raise our own money. We could afford to do what we wanted to do. Then we had several other things too. We had a Black newspaper. A fellow named John H. McCray ran the newspaper. It was his newspaper. Independent, so that he used the newspaper as part of the overall campaign. We even had what we call Progressive Democrats. We even had a party within the party. | 41:31 |
Charles Houston | Right. There was a Black Democratic Party. | 42:37 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | We called it Progressive Democrats, that McCray had it. See? And then there were three of them. And there was Modjeska Simkins. A lady. They would go over the state anywhere any time and work like I don't know what. | 42:40 |
Charles Houston | That was based in Columbia? And McCray spelled his name. M-C-Capital C-R-A-Y? | 43:02 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Right. John H. McCray. | 43:13 |
Charles Houston | It was really Hinton, McCray and Simkins who provided the— | 43:22 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Oh, yeah. | 43:25 |
Charles Houston | The leadership out of—And this was a statewide influence? | 43:26 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 43:29 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Now, you said that that South Carolina was the only state to raise its own money and, thereby, create its autonomy, establish it's autonomy, its independence from New York. I think I read somewhere that, when the State Conference of Branches was founded in '39, there were eight local branches of the NAACP in South Carolina, having grown from three in 1930. Do you remember about how many branches there were by, say, the period you were there, 1948 to 1951? Was this expansion that started back in the thirties continuing? Was the strength of the organization continuing to expand and grow? | 43:38 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I think, when I went to Columbia, it must have been somewhere between 30 and 40 branches. | 44:25 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 44:40 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Branches. And when I left, we had something between 90 and 100 branches and new chapters. | 44:41 |
Charles Houston | In three years? It doubled? Or tripled. | 44:47 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Tripled. | 44:47 |
Charles Houston | Now, if I'm not mistaken, this was also a time when the White community was going to put a lot of pressure on people, on the NAACP, with people who supported it. | 45:02 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | See, McCray ran his newspaper. Hinton worked for Pilgrim Health and Life. Mrs. Simkin's husband owned a bunch of property, so nobody—They couldn't touch them. Which was a key element in it. | 45:11 |
Charles Houston | Was it safe to belong to NAACP in those days? Were Black people risking, in some cases, in the period you were there, '48 to '51, livelihood, property, maybe even life, in joining the NAACP? | 45:32 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Not life. Nobody ever knew how many members that we had in any branch. We were the only ones who knew. | 45:59 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 46:21 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | You had the school principals, who had gotten up in. A lot of them joined, a lot of them were afraid to join. We had that. But I don't recall that — | 46:21 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | See, one of the things was that by Hinton being so well known, that's the advantage of the White press. | 0:03 |
Charles Houston | You mean they helped build his reputation? | 0:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's correct. | 0:27 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 0:35 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You see. | 0:35 |
Charles Houston | Now was some of the White press, I assume some of the White press was supportive? | 0:35 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Press, you never know, and of course, you don't care. | 0:36 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 0:37 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Since they print the news. Because if he were going somewhere on Sunday morning to preach, automatically, the Baptist preacher knew you had a full church, anywhere he went. If the word got out that he was going to be there, you had a full church automatically, you see. And that was part of it. | 0:38 |
Charles Houston | When he spoke at churches, would there be collections, special collections for special projects of the State Conference of Branches? In other words. | 1:14 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 1:22 |
Charles Houston | No. | 1:22 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 1:23 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 1:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. If he spoke at a church, he would not take any money. | 1:24 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 1:34 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And that greatly endeared to him to a lot of preachers, as you can well understand. He did not take any money. | 1:43 |
Charles Houston | Yeah. And it probably also made a lot of people who got fired up and wanted to help go out and join the association too. | 1:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | So that's what you had there. | 2:05 |
Charles Houston | Right. I know we're short on time because it's somebody, you're going to be getting a call. | 2:16 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, that's my son. He's coming to clean up. | 2:20 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Well, I don't want to run out of time to do this form. | 2:22 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 2:27 |
Charles Houston | But I did want to ask you what you did then after you left the NAACP. Because this was a fairly dynamic period. I mean, did you stay in Columbia? I assume you moved to Columbia. | 2:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I moved to Columbia. | 2:43 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And you said you were there through 1951. Or you said you were in this position 1948 to 1951. What did you do after 1951 or? | 2:44 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay, after, when I left NAACP, I went in into mail service. See, I wasn't making any money at number one. | 3:01 |
Charles Houston | At the association. | 3:10 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And they just told me, "We know you're worth more, we can't pay you, that's all." I think a year earlier I had taken a civil service exam for the postal, railway mail service. | 3:12 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 3:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | So when I left, I went into railway mail service. | 3:24 |
Charles Houston | Railway mail service. | 3:25 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's what they called it at that time. | 3:27 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 3:29 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's when the mail was on the trains. | 3:29 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 3:36 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Well, that was almost, that was the best paying job that a Black could find. | 3:36 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 3:42 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. I didn't have much choice. You talking about 1951, '52. | 3:44 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 3:56 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah, exactly. | 3:59 |
Charles Houston | Did you stay in Columbus? Were you based in Columbus? | 4:12 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, I moved back here. I moved back home, yeah. | 4:15 |
Charles Houston | So you were here during the time, I guess in 1955 when there was the boycott and the protests. | 4:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 4:43 |
Charles Houston | The petition, and then the boycott, okay. | 4:44 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. Mm-hmm. | 4:45 |
Charles Houston | Were you active in that because of your work responsibilities? So seeing that from a distance? | 4:47 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Well at that time I was, what was I? I was a substitute, so that meant that my schedule was uncertain because they'd call you almost any time to go almost anywhere to work. Sometimes you'd be gone for two or three days, sometime a day, sometime four or five days. Sometimes longer than that. So that I could not actively participate on any kind of consistent basis. | 4:55 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Yeah. I'm surprised at the magnitude of the expansion of the NAACP during this period. | 6:17 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Well, you see—Just like I said, the White press helped it tremendously. You're breaking laws, you breaking tradition, so that's news. And it attracted Black here. Let me give you this one. When I worked with NAACP, that's when I found out how poor we were. | 6:28 |
Charles Houston | Because you had the benefit of the statistics on how Blacks were doing? | 7:20 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I saw them every day. Every time I went to visit a branch, I saw them. Shoot, over in Clarendon County? Dirt poor. I had sharecroppers over there wanting to sign that petition, knowing full well the man would kick them off the place. And while I was in mail service, when I got to be a regular, it means I got a regular, what we call run, where I knew when I'd be on and when I would be off. Sometimes I'd be on four days off, six days or sometimes off six days and on seven days or anything like that, see. | 7:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | A buddy of mine and I started in the insurance business. We were looking around for something to do. He was running a barbershop. At that time, there were, excuse me, we had some friends in Charleston and Columbia, the only two Blacks I knew that were in the insurance business, casualty insurance business in this day. And I went and talked to them and they helped us get started. But I knew how poor we were and had no influence and had no money. And that's how I got over to the business side of it. | 8:11 |
Charles Houston | And this was what? This was around '55, '56? | 8:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | A little later, because I think I've been in the insurance business now about 30 years. Somewhere around 30 years. | 9:12 |
Charles Houston | This was probably in the '60s. Early '60s. | 9:17 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Because see, while I was in railway mail service, I still ran this business. | 9:22 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Well, it just strengthens my conviction that this was a really fascinating period, especially to be involved with the NAACP and at the State Conference level. Just one more question that occurs to me. I'm going to say one more lame question, but it's not lame. When the State Conferences of Branches went to an area to establish a local branch in an area where none existed, how did you go about that? I mean, did you contact the minister of the biggest church? | 9:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. Generally people would come up to you at a meeting and tell you, "I want you to come so-and-so. When can you come to so-and-so? We want to have a meeting." Our question always was, "Can you get the people to the meeting?" They say, "Yeah, we can get them there, if you'll come." But everybody knew him. So he was going to show up at that church out in the back of the woods, the church was going to be full because they had put the word out. You got to remember that back there, that when you were battling Whitey and winning, you had one hell of a reputation. | 10:45 |
Charles Houston | But it wasn't risky to go into some of these back rural areas with a lot of publicity and? | 11:55 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Well, the. | 12:04 |
Charles Houston | Organize new branches? | 12:05 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | The publicity is what helped. In some situations it may mitigate against you, but in this incidence, it helped. | 12:11 |
Charles Houston | Helped turn out people, attracted membership. | 12:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Oh, yeah. And during that period, South Carolina was not a violent state. | 12:32 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 12:36 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | See? So that you didn't have a belligerent attitude on the part of Whites. And for some reason, I think that part of it was the mental thing of that organization out of New York. | 12:37 |
Charles Houston | I don't understand. | 13:41 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You have to almost think like Whitey to understand that one. What goes through his mind? Now, if I'm going to do battle with this situation, I got to be prepared to fight them fellas out of New York office. | 13:50 |
Charles Houston | Why did you feel that way? Fight them on what ground? | 14:30 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | This is Whitey's mind now. | 14:36 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I'm not sure I'm following, you mean— | 14:43 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Maybe he thought that he could handle you locally. | 14:45 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 14:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | But it was not an entirely local situation. | 14:56 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 15:01 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You see? | 15:02 |
Charles Houston | So he didn't know where to strike. | 15:03 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | So that all of that comes through, see when the White primary was knocked out, it was knocked out because of a case out of Texas. | 15:04 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 15:16 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And they knew it. | 15:17 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 15:18 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | It was well publicized. | 15:19 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 15:20 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You see? | 15:23 |
Charles Houston | Right. | 15:24 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You see? So all of that. | 15:24 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 15:25 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You see? And see, they had lost the teacher's case. Now you got to remember, they had lost the teacher's case. They had lost the teacher's case to that Black lawyer out of New York. Here he comes again, and they lost that one. You see? | 15:30 |
Charles Houston | So there was a sense that the real leadership was coming among Blacks. That it was coming from the states, rather than from New York. | 16:01 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | All I know is that they didn't mess with us. There were some Whites in relatively high positions who did not voice any opposition, you see. So that they really had not much of a rally. In society, it depends on who your leader is, you see. | 16:20 |
Charles Houston | Well, that's very, very interesting. Before we run out of time, I'd like to start this form. | 17:12 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 17:31 |
Charles Houston | Just the easiest thing to do is just to ask you questions. Your first name is Eugene. And you said your middle name is, your initials are A. R.? | 17:35 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 17:53 |
Charles Houston | And what are the A. R. for? | 17:56 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Alonzo. Nobody hardly knows that. Alonzo and Randolph. Eugene was an uncle. Alonzo was an uncle. Randolph was the president of Claflin I was named after. | 17:59 |
Charles Houston | Ah, okay. And what is your address? I guess your- | 18:14 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | My mailing address? | 18:27 |
Charles Houston | Yeah. | 18:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Post office Box 514. | 18:29 |
Charles Houston | Well, actually no, a street address, a location. | 18:31 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Where my house is? | 18:33 |
Charles Houston | Yes. | 18:34 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | 325 Treadwell. | 18:35 |
Charles Houston | That's T-R-E-A-D. | 18:39 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | W-E-L-L, right. Okay. Treadwell. Northeast, N-E. | 18:40 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And the zip? | 18:52 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | 29115. | 18:57 |
Charles Houston | And your date of birth is 2/8/23. | 18:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 18:57 |
Charles Houston | And you were born here in Orangeburg, South Carolina? | 19:03 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 19:06 |
Charles Houston | And your principal occupations have been, currently owner of insurance agencies? | 19:10 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Insurance and real estate. | 19:20 |
Charles Houston | Insurance and real estate. And it says here to list up to three principal occupations. So you were the Executive Secretary of State Conference Branches, NAACP. | 19:30 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 19:49 |
Charles Houston | Your home telephone number? | 20:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | 534-8566. | 20:11 |
Charles Houston | And your office? | 20:16 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | 534-1233. | 20:21 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And how would you like your name to appear in the written materials? As Eugene A. R. Montgomery? | 20:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 20:30 |
Charles Houston | Your current marital status? | 20:50 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I am married. | 20:54 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And your spouse's first and middle name? | 20:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Georgia. Georgia G. | 20:56 |
Charles Houston | G, initial G. | 21:02 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | You want the name? | 21:03 |
Charles Houston | Yeah. | 21:04 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | G-U-I-L-E, Guile. | 21:06 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And what's her date of birth please? And place of birth. | 21:15 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I think it's May the 14th, 1957. | 21:26 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 21:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Florence, South Carolina. | 21:31 |
Charles Houston | Oh, you might want to wait until we do some more of this because you may have another question for her. May 14th, 1957 you said? | 21:34 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I think so. | 21:41 |
Charles Houston | 5/14/1957. Florence. | 21:41 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 21:41 |
Charles Houston | And that's in Orangeburg County? | 21:48 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, that's in Florence County. I was supposed to call her after I say here a half hour and wake her up. | 21:50 |
Charles Houston | Uh oh. What's her occupation? | 21:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | School administrator. | 22:02 |
Georgia Montgomery | Hello? | 22:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Hey. I forgot. | 22:09 |
Georgia Montgomery | Oh, well. | 22:15 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Huh? When the phone rang that long, I was frightened. | 22:16 |
Charles Houston | Your mother's first, middle, and maiden name? | 22:21 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Maggie Desverney. Desverney. D-E-S. | 22:26 |
Charles Houston | Is that a maiden name or middle? | 22:33 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Middle. | 22:35 |
Charles Houston | D-E. | 22:36 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | D-E-S-V-E-R-N-E-Y. | 22:36 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 22:40 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Maiden name is, last maiden name was Smith. | 22:42 |
Charles Houston | We figured out her date of birth, didn't we? We said she was, you weren't sure about that. You said she was 95 when she died in 1984, so she must have been born in 1889. Yeah, she must have been. | 22:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I have no idea. | 23:12 |
Charles Houston | Well, if she'd been 100, she would've been born in 1884, but she was five years younger. So that's '89. | 23:14 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 23:22 |
Charles Houston | And she died in 1984. And where was she born? | 23:33 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Born in Kingstree, South Carolina. | 23:36 |
Charles Houston | Kingstree? And what county is that? | 23:42 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Williamsburg. | 23:44 |
Charles Houston | And what was her occupation? | 23:50 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Midwife. | 23:52 |
Charles Houston | And your father's first and middle names? | 23:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | John William. | 24:02 |
Charles Houston | And his date of birth. Now you said he was 55, but you also said you saw him work at 50 cents a day. And I presume that was after he lost the store, because you were very young. | 24:16 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 24:30 |
Charles Houston | And I presume also that was in the Depression. | 24:31 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yep. | 24:34 |
Charles Houston | So that means he couldn't have died when you were quite that young. If you were born in '20, you were born, what? '23. Depression didn't start until '29. So you must have remembered his earning that little sometime after 1929 or later. And you would've been six in '29, right? | 24:35 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 24:58 |
Charles Houston | So he may have, I don't know how long into the depression he lived, but let's say this was 1933 for the sake of argument. If he was 55 in 1933, that would make him less old when you were born. And mean also that he was born later. Wasn't as much older than your mother as he would have to have been if he died when you were four or five. Five years old or six years old. | 24:59 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That one's been a puzzlement to me. | 25:31 |
Charles Houston | But he was alive in the Depression? | 25:37 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. Okay. Now I remember that much. | 25:39 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Well, let's say for the sake of argument then, that he died in 1931, one year after the Depression started. By which time you would've been six to seven years old, okay? And he was born in 1955, he was 55 years old in 1930. That means he would've been born in 1875 on that, right? Yeah. That means he would've been born in 1875. And your mother was born in 1889. If he lived in 1935, you would've been 12 years old. | 25:43 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And I would remember more than I do now. | 26:21 |
Charles Houston | Right. So it must have been closer to 1930. And if he was 55, he had to have been about 14 years older than your mother. And maybe a little bit less than, maybe 12, maybe he lived to '32. | 26:21 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Maybe so. | 26:40 |
Charles Houston | Hogansville, that's the city. | 26:50 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | City. | 26:50 |
Charles Houston | And do you know what county? | 26:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-mm. | 26:55 |
Charles Houston | And you decided, I put his occupation down as grocer. You said you had one older brother and one older sister. Could you give me their names in birth order? | 26:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | The oldest was my sister. She's Eleanor. | 27:10 |
Charles Houston | And your brother's name? | 27:15 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | John William Jr. | 27:17 |
Charles Houston | And you were the third born, now Eleanor was born in what year? | 27:25 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Let's see. John was five years older than me, so he was born in 1918. | 27:31 |
Charles Houston | Yup. | 27:36 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And Eleanor was three years older than John, which was 1915. Yep. | 27:38 |
Charles Houston | And are they both still living? | 27:43 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. Eleanor is. John's dead. | 27:46 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And what year did John pass? | 27:48 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | 1941. | 27:51 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And they were both born in Orangeburg? | 27:56 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 27:58 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Children? Do you have children? | 28:03 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 28:06 |
Charles Houston | Do we have, list their names in order of birth? | 28:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Wait, before you start writing, now this is my second wife. Together, we have six children. | 28:14 |
Charles Houston | Okay, but you have other children as well? | 28:20 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, six is all. | 28:24 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 28:24 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Together. All told. | 28:25 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Could we list their names in? | 28:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. Let's see. Eugene Jr. Start with the oldest. | 28:31 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 28:40 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | He's a Montgomery. Then there's Spencer Disher. | 28:40 |
Charles Houston | D-I-S-H-E-R? | 28:49 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 28:50 |
Charles Houston | Disher is his last name. | 28:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 28:54 |
Charles Houston | Okay. So I should put Eugene Montgomery Jr. here. | 28:55 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | See, my wife had three children and I had two. And we have one. | 29:02 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 29:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Let's see, Spencer is the second one, then comes John. John Montgomery. | 29:12 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 29:18 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | And Evelyn, you want her married name or her? | 29:23 |
Charles Houston | Her birth name. | 29:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Evelyn Disher. | 29:29 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 29:29 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | George Disher. And the last one is Bennett Montgomery. | 29:29 |
Charles Houston | B-E-N-N-E-T-T? | 29:42 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 29:44 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And their birth dates, please? | 29:52 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'll call my wife. | 29:54 |
Charles Houston | Well, should we maybe come back to that? | 30:00 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 30:03 |
Charles Houston | Because there might be some others. Place of birth, of course no need for that. And do you have grandchildren? | 30:05 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Four. | 30:09 |
Charles Houston | Okay. That's all I need, is the number. | 30:10 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Four and a half. Four and three-fourths. | 30:18 |
Charles Houston | Four and one on the way, huh? | 30:18 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Four and one on the way. | 30:19 |
Charles Houston | Now, this next question is to list the places that you've lived. So basically if we skip temporary assignments, you've lived in Orangeburg and you lived in Pittsburgh? No. Yeah. | 30:24 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I lived in Pittsburgh for about three months. | 30:35 |
Charles Houston | Oh, okay. | 30:43 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I lived in Philadelphia longer. Yeah. I must have lived in. | 30:44 |
Charles Houston | Let's say Orangeburg first. Then you lived in, I'm going to put Pittsburgh down. | 30:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 31:02 |
Charles Houston | Anyway, I know the county there, because this asks for city, county, and the state. It's Allegheny County. | 31:08 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Allegheny. That Allegheny River. | 31:12 |
Charles Houston | And you lived in Philadelphia. | 31:16 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Philadelphia. | 31:17 |
Charles Houston | And you came back here briefly, but then you went immediately to Columbia. | 31:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 31:27 |
Charles Houston | So I'm just going to put down Columbia after Philadelphia. | 31:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 31:30 |
Charles Houston | And then you came back to Orangeburg. | 31:39 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 31:39 |
Charles Houston | And I'll just have to put the dates on this. And I don't remember the county in Philadelphia. It seems like it's probably Philadelphia County, but I swear I don't. And I lived there for three years. But you were in Orangeburg from birth, 1923, until you went to Pittsburgh. And that was about 1952, '53, wasn't it? | 31:50 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | '42. | 32:14 |
Charles Houston | That's what I mean, 1942. And so you were in Pittsburgh 1942 to 1942, and then you moved to Philadelphia in 1942, I presume. | 32:17 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. | 32:30 |
Charles Houston | And until you went in the service, you were in Philadelphia, and that was 1944. | 32:32 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 32:36 |
Charles Houston | And you went to Columbia in what year? You went to Columbia? | 32:46 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | '48. | 32:51 |
Charles Houston | 1948. | 32:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | See, in '46, I came out the Marine Corps in '46. I went to AU. Was there from '46, '48. | 32:55 |
Charles Houston | Oh, that's right. I forgot AU. | 32:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yep. And then. | 32:58 |
Charles Houston | So '48, you were in Columbia '48 to 1951. I'm going to have to go back and squeeze in AU. And then you were 1951 to present, here. What county is Atlanta? | 33:07 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Fulton. | 33:21 |
Charles Houston | That's right. And you came out of the service at '46. | 33:22 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 33:37 |
Charles Houston | So you were there 1946 to 1948. And you graduated from Claflin High School, Claflin College, and Atlanta University. Is that right? | 33:37 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 33:52 |
Charles Houston | Claflin High School, Claflin College, Atlanta. You must have finished high school at a very young age. | 34:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I did. I went through. | 34:11 |
Charles Houston | Because you graduated from college at 19. | 34:12 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I went through eight grades of grammar school in seven years and went through high school in three years. | 34:15 |
Charles Houston | So wait a minute, you went, okay. What years were you at Claflin High School? You started first grade in '29? | 34:23 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Started college in '38, that means I started high school in '35. | 34:36 |
Charles Houston | 1938, 1935 to '38. Claflin College, now you graduated from college in 1942. | 34:45 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 34:54 |
Charles Houston | And you graduated with a B. A.? | 34:56 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, A. B. | 34:58 |
Charles Houston | A. B. | 35:00 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | They called it A. B. then. | 35:00 |
Charles Houston | A. B., 1942, and high school, 1938. Then you went to, no. Yeah, no. '46 to '48, you went to Atlanta. 1946 to '48. And you took a MA in 1948. | 35:11 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | MSW. | 35:27 |
Charles Houston | Oh, sorry. MSW. And your most important previous jobs were Executive Secretary, and then you worked for the Postal Service, and your own agency. Would you say most important previous jobs? | 35:29 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Paying job? | 35:59 |
Charles Houston | No, it says here, "List the interviewee's current and most important previous jobs." So I should start with your current job, and that is Proprietor, Montgomery Insurance and Real Estate Agency, right? | 36:01 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'm on the Board of Directors of South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts. | 36:14 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I'll have to come back. I'm sorry, you're director. Well, actually that's not a salaried position, is it? | 36:18 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 36:28 |
Charles Houston | Okay. That goes, that's next. | 36:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Oh, okay. That's why I asked you paid. | 36:30 |
Charles Houston | Yeah, I'm sorry. No, this is paid, but it, yeah. | 36:32 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 36:35 |
Charles Houston | Proprietor, Montgomery Life Insurance and Real Estate. Orangeburg, 1960, what did we say? 1960 when found this company? '63? | 36:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Let's say '63. Sounds good. | 37:05 |
Charles Houston | '63, approximately. And previous to that, what was your title with the Railroad Postal Service? | 37:09 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Well actually, they took the mail off of the trains and I came in the post office here in Orangeburg. I was a clerk. | 37:21 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 37:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Clerk. | 37:27 |
Charles Houston | US Post Office? | 37:32 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | US Postal Service, yeah. | 37:32 |
Charles Houston | US Postal Service. And I'm going to put Orangeburg here. And that was 1951 to 1963? | 37:34 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | What, postal service? | 37:52 |
Charles Houston | Or did you? | 37:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, '51 until, this is what? Until '93. | 37:55 |
Charles Houston | Until '93. | 38:01 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 38:02 |
Charles Houston | Then previous to that, you were the Executive Secretary? | 38:05 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 38:08 |
Charles Houston | In South Carolina State Conference of Branches, NAACP. | 38:08 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 38:08 |
Charles Houston | South Carolina State Conference of Branches, NAACP. Columbia, South Carolina, 1948 to '51. Okay. Awards and honors and offices held. Just whatever you want to list. It doesn't have to be exhaustive. | 38:12 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'm a member of the board of Directors, South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts. | 38:57 |
Charles Houston | Board Member. South, I'm sorry, say that again? | 39:03 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | South Carolina Governor's School. | 39:12 |
Charles Houston | Governor's School? | 39:19 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Mm-hmm. For the Arts. | 39:20 |
Charles Houston | Is that in Columbia? | 39:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Greenville. | 39:28 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And any dates for that? Something you've been doing for a long time? | 39:28 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | We were talking about at the last board meeting, how long I've been on that board. I guess I've been eight years. | 39:46 |
Charles Houston | Okay, so this was, that's '86. | 39:51 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah, I guess so. | 39:52 |
Charles Houston | '86 to. | 39:52 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Present. | 39:52 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Well, I'm going to have to put down Executive Secretary again. | 40:04 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's okay. | 40:08 |
Charles Houston | And I think it's appropriate. Anything else? | 40:10 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'm Treasurer of the local branch. I've been that for a long—If that's. | 40:42 |
Charles Houston | That's absolutely. Treasurer, Orangeburg. | 40:46 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Orangeburg Branch. | 40:54 |
Charles Houston | Chapter. | 40:55 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Branch. | 40:55 |
Charles Houston | Orangeburg Branch, NAACP? | 40:55 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Right. | 40:56 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And how long have you been the treasurer? | 41:04 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | About 12, 15 years. | 41:14 |
Charles Houston | Okay, so 15. So say, let's say 1983. | 41:14 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 41:17 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 41:17 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'm a past Vice President of the Chamber of Commerce. | 41:26 |
Charles Houston | Yeah, that's fine. VP Orangeburg chapter? How do you say that? Orangeburg Chamber of Commerce? | 41:29 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Orangeburg Chamber of Commerce, right. | 41:35 |
Charles Houston | The years? | 41:39 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Let's see, I was in there, what? I served two terms as a Vice President, two years as a Vice President. I was a member of the board for about six years. | 41:44 |
Charles Houston | Okay, let me put that down too. | 42:14 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Because I finished the guy's term, then I served a term. Okay. Board of Directors of Junior Achievement. | 42:14 |
Charles Houston | Board member, Junior Achievement. | 42:26 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yep. | 42:28 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Years. | 42:30 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | This is '94. That would be about, oh, '88 to present. | 42:32 |
Charles Houston | 1988 to present. Now on this Orangeburg Chamber of Commerce, I could just put down 1980s, if that's when it was. Or 1970s, if you can't recall. | 42:34 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No, it was, I don't recall. It was in the '80s. | 42:50 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I'll just say 1980s. | 42:56 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Okay. | 42:58 |
Charles Houston | For both of them. | 42:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah, okay. | 42:59 |
Charles Houston | Now I'm out of space. I can squeeze one more in. | 43:01 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's it. | 43:04 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Current religious denomination, AME? | 43:05 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Methodist. | 43:08 |
Charles Houston | Church? | 43:11 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Trinity United Methodist. | 43:12 |
Charles Houston | Yeah, I've been there. In fact, I am intending to call your Reverend Manego. | 43:27 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Manego. | 43:32 |
Charles Houston | I get that wrong. | 43:36 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 43:37 |
Charles Houston | Now this says, "List the organizations to which you belong." Now I can go back, I will copy the organizations over here, unless there are others you want me to add like real estate or insurance organizations? | 43:44 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. | 43:57 |
Charles Houston | But you've mentioned the Governor's School for the Arts, State Conference of Branches. | 43:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Organizations? | 44:02 |
Charles Houston | Orangeburg NAACP, chamber of Commerce, Junior Achievement, but are there professional organizations you would like? | 44:03 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yeah. National Association of Real Estate Brokers. | 44:09 |
Charles Houston | Years? Or decade? | 44:20 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Let's see, when was that? 19. Oh, I'd better get my pencil out here. Let's see. No, that's '69. 1967 until now, present. | 44:27 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Since that's a national organization, I don't suppose it's appropriate to write Orangeburg. | 44:57 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 45:05 |
Charles Houston | Okay. And what about state local organizations, or does that cover? | 45:06 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | I'm a Mason and a Shriner. | 45:23 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Mason. Okay. And when did you join the Masons? | 45:25 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Oh my God, I've been there 20 years I know. | 45:34 |
Charles Houston | 20 years. So 70, mid '70s. So I'll say 1974 to present. Joined the Shriners at the same time? | 45:38 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Yep. | 45:48 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Anything else? | 45:54 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | That's enough. | 45:56 |
Charles Houston | Okay. "List below other activities or affiliations." Military service for you would be USMC. US Marine Corps, 1945. Tell me. | 45:58 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | Marine Corps. | 46:16 |
Charles Houston | 1944 to '46. | 46:17 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | '44 to '46, right. | 46:19 |
Charles Houston | Labor Union. Did you join a union when you were? | 46:24 |
Eugene A. R. Montgomery | No. | 46:26 |
Charles Houston | When you were a steelworker? Hobbies, interests, publications, books, articles? Okay. Newsletters? And finally. Well, almost finally, next to finally, penultimate. | 46:28 |
Charles Houston | Okay. | 0:10 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I don't necessarily have any favorite thing like that. I think probably the only thing I would have to say would be that—I guess you'd say what—You may have to rephrase this. I think that, in 1994, insofar as Afro-Americans are concerned, the greatest challenge is education and advancement up the economic ladder. Namely, full participation in all phases of American life. | 0:10 |
Charles Houston | Did you say education and economic advancement? Okay. Yeah, just to read back, I wrote, "The greatest challenge facing African Americans in 1994 is to secure education and economic advancement necessary to face all challenges in American life." | 1:23 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | To aggressively. | 2:08 |
Charles Houston | To aggressively. | 2:09 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | That's what we ain't doing. | 2:20 |
Charles Houston | Thanks. Okay. Finally, I know there was a question you were going to ask your wife about the birth dates of your children. | 2:22 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Of the children? | 2:31 |
Charles Houston | Yes. | 2:32 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Hey. | 2:32 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | I need the birth dates of all of your children, dear. | 2:47 |
Georgia Montgomery | [Indistinct 00:02:54]. | 2:50 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | (laughs) Okay. All right. Bye. | 2:54 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | She's going to call me right back. She must be on the other line gossiping. The only one that I know is Bennett. | 2:56 |
Charles Houston | What's his birth? | 3:06 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | He's the youngest one. | 3:07 |
Charles Houston | Okay. Wait a minute. Okay. | 3:13 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Bennett is July 1, 1971. | 3:14 |
Charles Houston | Okay, so 71. 71. The years on the others will do if you know how old they are even. | 3:16 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | She knows. | 3:29 |
Charles Houston | She's got that. | 3:30 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Mothers always know those children's birthday. | 3:31 |
Charles Houston | Bennett was born in Orangeburg? | 3:34 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yep. | 3:36 |
Charles Houston | What about John and Eugene? | 3:38 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | John and Eugene were born in Orangeburg. | 3:42 |
Charles Houston | Okay. I guess the Disher children may have been born in other places. | 4:00 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | Yep. | 4:07 |
Charles Houston | Okay. The last thing here is an interview agreement, which I have to get you to sign so that this can be collected. This form and the tape recorded interviews, and I'll just read it to you while we're waiting for her to call, and you can read it over again if you'd like. It says, "The purpose of the Behind the Veil documenting African American life and the Jim Crow South project—" That's okay. I'll just write these dates down. (phone rings) [Indistinct 00:04:37]. | 4:09 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | [INTERRUPTION 00:04:42] | 4:42 |
Charles Houston | "Life in the Jim Crow South project is to gather and preserve historical documents by means of tape recorded interviews. Tape recordings and transcripts resulting from interviews become a part of the archives of the Behind the Veil collection of Duke University. This material will be made available for historical and other academic research and public dissemination regulated according to the restrictions placed on its use by the interviewee. Duke University is assigned rights, title, and interest to the interviews unless otherwise specified. Participation in Center for Documentary Studies projects is entirely voluntary." | 4:42 |
Charles Houston | It says, "We've read the above and we voluntarily offer information contained in these oral history research interviews. In view of the scholarly value of this research material, we hereby permit Duke University to retain it without restrictions." | 5:18 |
Charles Houston | In the bold print above your signature, it says, "We the undersigned have read the above and voluntarily offer Duke University full use of the information contained on tapes and transcripts of these oral history research interviews. In view of the scholarly value of this research, we hereby assign rights, title, and interest pertaining to it to Duke University." | 5:33 |
Charles Houston | I'd like to get your signature here, please. Over your thumb, yeah. | 5:59 |
Charles Houston | Thanks very much. | 6:05 |
Eugene A.R. Montgomery | You're welcome. | 6:15 |
Charles Houston | I really appreciate your time this evening. | 6:16 |
Item Info
The preservation of the Duke University Libraries Digital Collections and the Duke Digital Repository programs are supported in part by the Lowell and Eileen Aptman Digital Preservation Fund