Thelmer Bethune interview recording, 1995 July 06
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Transcript
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Kisha Turner | If we can begin by you just stating your whole name and when you were born. | 0:02 |
Thelmer Bethune | I was born in 1912, 18th of December. | 0:17 |
Kisha Turner | And your whole name? | 0:17 |
Thelmer Bethune | Thelmer, T-H-E-L-M-E-R, Bethune, B-E-T-H-U-N-E. | 0:20 |
Kisha Turner | Where were you born? | 0:30 |
Thelmer Bethune | About one mile right down the road. | 0:32 |
Kisha Turner | Okay, so this area around Silver? | 0:39 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 0:41 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 0:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | Back then, we used to get our mail from Silver. We had a post office in Silver, back then because we had a train running through here back then. And then they had a mail carry come from the post office from Silver. But after the post office went out of business, then our mail now comes through Pinewood. Now, my mail come from Pinewood. | 0:49 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 1:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | Route [indistinct 00:01:28]. | 1:27 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 1:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | Route 2, box 570, Pinewood. | 1:27 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. What kind of work did your parents do? | 1:29 |
Thelmer Bethune | Farm. | 1:40 |
Kisha Turner | So, what was life like when you were a child on the farm? | 1:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, I guess it was all right. But you see, my father was farming on my granddaddy [indistinct 00:02:03], my granddaddy land. My granddaddy, after he died, he gave all his children [indistinct 00:02:22] land. Other word, my granddaddy had owned 465 acres of land. See, my grandfather's mother was a slave. [indistinct 00:02:45] slave master [indistinct 00:02:48] she was shipped away on a ship, to Charleston, he said his mother was bid off on the bidding block in Charleston. And then, when the old slave master, then turned around and had two kids by his slave, my grandfather mother, and had that boy and a girl. | 1:45 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. Okay. | 3:21 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so, see my grandfather, he was born a slave but he was small. His mother worked on the farm. And after [indistinct 00:03:46] he got married and he worked for himself, and he accumulate, he raised a good bit of children, and he came with that 465 acres of land. Now, he wouldn't know his name [indistinct 00:04:02] on writing, but he had good— | 3:29 |
Kisha Turner | Good sense. | 4:07 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. He had to because he bought 465 acres of land and paid for it. | 4:11 |
Kisha Turner | Right. Do you know how he was able to acquire the money— | 4:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | To buy the land? | 4:20 |
Kisha Turner | —to buy the land? | 4:21 |
Thelmer Bethune | He worked, and saved his money, and he buy on the credit but he worked the farm until he finished paying for it. | 4:29 |
Kisha Turner | Did he tell you any other stories about your great grandmother who was a slave? | 4:40 |
Thelmer Bethune | He did say that his mother, they was coming up, the old slave master used to go to Charleston back then to buy supplies and he'd be gone a week. Back then, you'd drive the mule and wagon over to Charleston, and said while he was gone, said his wife—He had a White wife. His wife, she beat him until whips all over him. | 4:48 |
Kisha Turner | Really? | 5:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | When the old man was gone. See, [indistinct 00:05:30] so they could crawl around on the floor, this old slave master made his mama take them and [indistinct 00:05:39] and put them in the house with him and his wife, [indistinct 00:05:43] and made his wife take care of them. And then when he's gone, then she would tie the little shirt up over the head, and she would beat them until they had whelps over him. | 5:29 |
Thelmer Bethune | And then when he'd come back, he would see the whelps on them, you know? And he would ask them, who done that? And they would point at his wife, and he would take her and take a buckskin, what they called back then the buckskin, and he'd tie her hands and put over the fence post. And he'd tie [indistinct 00:06:24] and he would beat her until blood run down her. When he was gone again, she'd do the same thing again. And when he came back, he'd do the same thing to her, beat her again. | 5:54 |
Thelmer Bethune | And then, see, the slave master was a Gibson, and that's why my grandfather, [indistinct 00:06:52] the name Gibson. My father was a Bethune, and he married my mother was a Gibson, but my father was a Bethune. | 6:41 |
Kisha Turner | So, that was your mother's father. | 7:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | My mother's father was a Gibson. | 7:17 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. Okay. | 7:18 |
Thelmer Bethune | But my father was a Bethune because his daddy was a Bethune. See, a Bethune, there was White Bethunes, you know? | 7:20 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 7:45 |
Thelmer Bethune | When my granddaddy perished, they was a slave on my daddy's side, and so when [indistinct 00:08:03] paid him, then they [indistinct 00:08:06]. You see, back then, daddy said tell all of them they change, they can go what name they want to, you know? | 7:52 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 8:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, some of them took the old slave master, and then some changed their name to something else. But I grew up being—I stayed on the land where my grandfather had given his daughter, my mother. And when I got married, then I buy this place up here where I'm staying now. | 8:16 |
Kisha Turner | Were your parents also from this area? | 8:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, yeah. | 8:50 |
Kisha Turner | Did they ever talk about what it was like when they were children, in Silver? | 8:51 |
Thelmer Bethune | My mother, they was raised up under their father and mother, on the farm, you know? And she said her daddy, when he was coming up, raising them up, said he only had one pair of shoe and one pants and a shirt, and he would be getting to bed at night. On Saturday night, he would pull up and get into bed, and then his wife would wash them pants and shirt, and his underwear, and then Sunday morning, she would dry it by the fire, and then she would press them. Then on Sunday morning, he would get up [indistinct 00:09:48] he'd go to church. And he said they rolled logs. They cleaned up. See, the land wasn't cleaned up. This was woods, you know? | 8:57 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 10:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | And they would cut down the trees and roll them, and burn them up, and when they cleaned up, it end up like that. But see, they worked for their daddy all the time, you know? Cleaning up land, you know? | 10:02 |
Kisha Turner | Right. What kind of crops? | 10:17 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, just plant cotton, corn, back then. And the garden [indistinct 00:10:28]. Other words, what they eat, practically raise it, you know? | 10:18 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 10:33 |
Thelmer Bethune | They'd raise pigs and kill them, had milk cows if they want milk. | 10:34 |
Kisha Turner | How far did he have to go to sell the cotton, or did you all have to go sell it? | 10:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, [indistinct 00:10:53] house right there in Silver, and they had buyers, you'd just buy it right there. And sometimes, my granddaddy would ship his cotton to Charleston on the train. | 10:52 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 11:12 |
Thelmer Bethune | But when I start the farm, start the farming, a gin right there to sell, when I sell my cotton there, had buyers right there. And then a gin, some of them had buyers, then I'd sell. Then I raised—Later, I started raising tobacco, and I carry my tobacco to [indistinct 00:11:41] market and sell. I raised cotton, corn, tobacco, then soya beans. But I don't farm now. I got so I couldn't get up and down on my tractor. First, up on my mules, and then [indistinct 00:12:02] long in the 40s, then I buy me a Ford tractor. Then I started to farm with the tractor, because the tractor would do more than the mules could do. And I farmed up until 1979, the last year I farmed, and after that, I rent my farm out. | 11:18 |
Kisha Turner | So, when you went to sell the cotton or tobacco or soya beans, did all the farmers bring their goods and then buyers were at this place? | 12:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, biggest time I would sell it right to the gin. The buyers would be right there. Soon as it come out the press, I would sell it. Bale by bale. Then sometimes I would bring it home, until I'd get a buyer. [indistinct 00:13:01] six bales and I'd carry it, and then sell it in a lump like that. | 12:42 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. Did anyone work on the farm who wasn't related to you? | 13:07 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, yeah. I had to hire people to help me pick the cotton. I had the families around, and they'd get together and they'd come and I'd hire them to come in, and give them mine because I was lucky. I was planting more cotton and they plant, and they would bring the children to pick cotton for me. And I'd hire them to gather it. I couldn't gather it unless I had the help. | 13:11 |
Kisha Turner | Right. | 13:58 |
Thelmer Bethune | And in the back, I had to go get people to come and help me crop it, string it, put it up in the barn, chew it out, and had people to come down and help my wife take out all the sticks, put it in sheets, carry it to the market. | 13:59 |
Kisha Turner | And what did you do with the soya beans? | 14:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | I carried them to market. | 14:34 |
Kisha Turner | Okay, just like they— | 14:35 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, yeah, yeah. [indistinct 00:14:37]. | 14:36 |
Kisha Turner | Yeah, okay. | 14:36 |
Thelmer Bethune | [indistinct 00:14:43] right in the field and dump them in the wagon, and then I'd take them to the market Sumter, to Sumter [indistinct 00:14:54] and sell them. | 14:43 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. Were you able to attend school when you were younger? | 15:02 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, I stopped in the second grade, but back then, you see, we couldn't—We didn't go but had three months schooling. And see, back then, you couldn't open it. The Colored schools, the White people wouldn't let you open them until they get their crop out the field. Because see, the Colored people had to go there and gather their crops. But [indistinct 00:15:44] was in school. They were hiring the teacher. The White people owned the schools, you know? | 15:06 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 16:03 |
Thelmer Bethune | And they [indistinct 00:16:05] could run three months out the year. The one year, our parents went to them, about when the schools opened, and they'd tell our parents they ain't going to be able this year to hire no teacher, because ain't no money in the treasure. But now [indistinct 00:16:24] schools, and said they wasn't able to give us but one month, pay for one month schooling. So, our parents couldn't get a teacher because there was plenty of teachers but they had little jobs cooking and stuff like that and cleaning, you know? And they said they couldn't quit the little job for one month, because that month up, they couldn't quit the little job what they had. And back then, it wasn't much. They didn't pay the teachers but $5 a week, and see the four weeks wouldn't have been but $20. | 16:06 |
Kisha Turner | Right. | 17:11 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, our parents then hire my Uncle Wyatt to teach. Ruben Clark Wyatt's mother, hired her to teach and she had finished in eighth grade [indistinct 00:17:40] and then our parents hired her to teach. The county paid for one month, and then our parents got together and they get her to teach two more months, and they would have little plays at the schoolhouse. All the parents round would get together and they'd cook. Some would cook potato pie, and some plant peanuts, parts from peanuts and stuff, and [indistinct 00:18:23] school have a little party, and sell and raise a little money to pay my auntie for teaching us. But it was $5 a week, and that was $20 a month. They hired her, paying two months. | 17:15 |
Thelmer Bethune | But other times, I had to—Back when we go to school, [indistinct 00:18:49] time, the boys would have to go in the woods and cut wood, and tow it to the schoolhouse to keep the fire going, so you could keep the children warm. Sometimes you'd go in and it would take us from morning, sometimes until recess time cutting wood and bringing it back, and you had to keep that little heater they had in there hot, so the children could stay warm. Because old cracks was in the building, you could look out through the crack and see what was going on. | 18:46 |
Kisha Turner | How many rooms were there? | 19:33 |
Thelmer Bethune | Just one. Sometimes it would be about 75-80 of the children and that one teacher, and she would teach from the first to the seventh grade, that one teacher would teach. And sometimes the teacher was able to get to you. Sometimes you'd get one lesson in a day, because she had to go around like that. And then sometime I had to come back home to work, at 12:00, and sometimes I wasn't able to get [indistinct 00:20:28] lessons. In the second grade, I stopped in the second grade. But I would be able to buy this place up here, and was able to pay for it, and I had this house built, and I was able to pay for it off the farm. I worked and saved money. In fact, I'd raise my own chickens, my own eggs. My wife made chicken, eggs. We kept a garden, a little garden, summer garden. In fact, other words, you live at home. | 19:34 |
Kisha Turner | You didn't go to stores for anything? | 21:26 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, only time you go to the store, maybe for some sugar or [indistinct 00:21:32]. See, we'd raise our own meat and chickens and had milk cow, you know? | 21:28 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 21:43 |
Thelmer Bethune | Have our own milk. And we'd carry corn to the mill, and get us grits and meal grind to the mill. Go to the mill on Saturday, and carrying the corn. That grind would last you until the next Saturday. | 21:44 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. One more thing I wanted to ask you about school. Did your parents also have to raise money for the books, or did the school give you— | 22:04 |
Thelmer Bethune | No, no. You had to buy them. | 22:13 |
Kisha Turner | You had to buy books? | 22:14 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You had to buy the books. | 22:31 |
Kisha Turner | How about church, when you were a child? | 22:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Yeah. We went to church. My daddy had a horse and buggy, and we'd walk. The church [indistinct 00:22:38] all of us, the children going, you know? We'd get out that morning, we'd walk to church and our parents, my daddy [indistinct 00:22:51] with us. He'd walk there. You could get down to the branch. We'd carry our shoes in our hand. They had a little branch just where you'd get to the church, and we'd stop down there, wash our feet up in that water, and then put our shoes on, go on in the church. | 22:34 |
Kisha Turner | What was the name of your church? | 23:14 |
Thelmer Bethune | Mount Zero. | 23:15 |
Kisha Turner | Mount Zero? | 23:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | Uh-huh [indistinct 00:23:19]. | 23:17 |
Kisha Turner | I thought I saw Mount Zero? | 23:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, from [indistinct 00:23:24]. | 23:21 |
Kisha Turner | Yeah. I seen it. Okay. | 23:24 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. We'd walk. | 23:26 |
Kisha Turner | What was the name of your school? I'm sorry, the school you went to. | 23:29 |
Thelmer Bethune | Oakgrove. | 23:32 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. Were your parents very active in the church? | 23:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Yeah. My daddy was the Sunday school superintendent. My daddy, he say he didn't go to school but three weeks in his lifetime. But he was the Sunday school superintendent, and he'd pick up anything and read it, and in fact, he would teach us in the night, you know? Our books, he got and he'd pick up anything and read it. And he say how he got his learning, he didn't go to school but three weeks, but how he got his learning, his mother had four children, three boys and one girl, and his daddy died, and his White—He was a doctor, Dr. Reynolds back then, and said Dr. Reynolds come by the house one morning, tell his mama, said, "You know, you ain't able to take care of all these children. How about give me one of them?" And she said, "All right. You can get one." And so— | 23:43 |
Kisha Turner | Who was this? | 25:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | Dr. Reynolds. A White fellow. He was a doctor. | 25:17 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 25:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | Back then, wasn't nothing but horse and buggy, and he'd come on that morning. See, my daddy's daddy was dead and they'd been three living boys and one girl. Dr. Reynolds told his mama, said, "You ought to give me one of your children. You ain't able to take care of these four children." She said, "All right. You can have one." So, asked his brother, Henry, he said, "No, no. I ain't going." And Isaac said, "No, I ain't going to go." He said, "I'll go." His mother went and got his little clothes and put it in a little flour sack and gave the boy to Dr. Reynolds. He went on [indistinct 00:26:15] and Dr. Reynolds had a son called Danny. He said him and Danny sleep together, and when he got bigger, then he'd do the cooking, you know? | 25:20 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 26:32 |
Thelmer Bethune | At night, he would hold a light, because Dr. Reynolds' wife was a schoolteacher. And at night, he would hold a light for her to teach her children. And he'd hold a light looking, you know? And he say that's how he got his learning. He pick up what she was trying to teach them. He say he pick it up better than the children, and he could pick up anything and read it. My brother, he was going to school in the 10th grade and my daddy would help him in his work. | 26:34 |
Kisha Turner | Now, they didn't know he was learning? | 27:22 |
Thelmer Bethune | I don't reckon so. Because he'd hold the light for them, and he say he made up his mind he was going to learn to read and write. | 27:26 |
Kisha Turner | How long did he stay with the Reynolds family? | 27:36 |
Thelmer Bethune | When he got married, he got married out their house. | 27:37 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. How old was he when he went to stay with them? | 27:40 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say he was about six, about seven years old. | 27:44 |
Kisha Turner | Was that common for families to take children? | 27:51 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, I guess back then. I'm sure there was wealthy people. They'd been living with you know. I guess she said well—When he got married, he got married out of Dr. Reynolds house, and he married my mother. He said that the first two children born, he say Dr. Reynolds come and wait on his wife, for his first two children. | 27:55 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. Did he deliver them? | 28:32 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 28:35 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 28:35 |
Thelmer Bethune | And everything [indistinct 00:28:41] Dr. Reynolds would ride a horse and buggy there, and tell them [indistinct 00:28:49] you got some meal around their hoofs, put a couple of quarts into it and get my meal. My dad said yeah, and he'd give her a bundle of fodder. He just [indistinct 00:29:09] and gone onto sleep. The next morning, my daddy, he'd cook breakfast and Dr. Reynolds would eat some breakfast, and [indistinct 00:29:19] he'd go on back. | 28:46 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. That's interesting. That's very interesting. Let's see, where were we? Let's see, you worked in—Did you ever travel outside of Silver? | 29:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, yeah. I went to Jersey, and stayed—I said I was going to quit farming and I quit farming and I'd rent my farm out that year. And I leave here in February, me and my wife went to New Jersey and stayed with my oldest sister and her husband. They be talking about how much money could be made up there and all like that. We went up there, and I couldn't get nothing to do, and my wife, she got a steam job in Redbank, New Jersey. | 29:44 |
Kisha Turner | What year was this? | 30:48 |
Thelmer Bethune | Let's see. That was in—Wait a minute now, because I had a '57, '56. Yeah. I had a '57 Plymouth and that was '59. And my wife, she had a job. She got a job at the Redbank, [indistinct 00:31:35] working in a—It was $50 a week that she'd been getting, and she had half a day off on Thursday, and then every other Sunday. And I'd go down and get her and then bring her back to my sister's house where I'd been staying. I didn't get a chance to get nothing to work, nothing to do until, I believe it was the day before the 4th of July. I stayed there until October, and I tell my wife, I said, "See you." [indistinct 00:32:45] leave home. She goes, "I'm going back." So, we pack up and get in my car, because I drive my car up there. We come on back, and I didn't have no house to stay in then. My house had got burned down, and I was living in that barn, see out there. | 30:50 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 33:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, we come on back, and then I had to turn around and buy another tractor, because I had sold most stuff I had going up there. They were talking about, oh man, you could make so much money. You could do this and do that. I'm going to tell you, things up there, I tell you the truth, it was just like it was here but if there's one thing, they wasn't outspoken but they had all these [indistinct 00:34:10] up there, just like people down here had. And shoot, because I knew, and I was on the job, and we were doing construction. I carried 12:00 [indistinct 00:34:32], let's go down to the bell garden and get a cool glass of beer, go and have a lunch. And then they'd buy lunch, the two, you know? | 33:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, I had another Colored fellow, it was just two Colored fellows on that job. So, when I tell the other fellow, I said, "You ain't going in and get a beer?" He said, "No." I said, "Why?" He said, "Man, you go in there and get it, they'll serve you but then they'll bust the glass up when you drink out of it." I said, "What?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Well, I'm going in and get one. Hell, they have to bust it up." And so, I went on in and ordered my beer, drank. And he's standing outside, and when I come out, he say, "They ain't bust the glass up?" I said, "No." He said, "They bust mine up." So, I don't see why. He said, "You know, they ain't know who you is. They think you some kind of [indistinct 00:36:13]." I stopped [indistinct 00:36:19] work up there on that job, I guess about, I'd say a month and I'd go there. But he wouldn't go in. | 34:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | So then, that boss man send out on another job and I was the only Colored fellow on that job, and there was one, two, three, there were three White and me, myself was four. On that job, we had a blacktop where they're laid it in. And that cold weather to freeze, bust it up and had to dig it up and put down more. So, I went to that [indistinct 00:37:27]. Well, it get to 12:00. So, 12:00 come, the little old foreman because he had to wait [indistinct 00:37:43]. But he took the other two White fellows in the truck and he tell me, called me Red, he said, "Red, you've got your lunch here." I say, "Yeah, I bring my lunch." He say, "Let's go up and get us a cool beer, have a lunch." And he say, "Man, 1:00 come, you can start back to digging." I said, "Uh-huh." | 36:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, they had had some shade trees going up on the road up into that [indistinct 00:38:31] house. It was hot, and so when I got through eating my lunch, I laid down on a [indistinct 00:38:39] my legs up, went on to sleep. Then 1:00 come, they ain't show up. Now, I didn't go nowhere. I laid right there with my legs cocked up, and they didn't get back until 2:00, and I was laying up there in the shade. He come out, he say, "Red, you ain't working?" I said, "Hell no. What you take me to be? I see y'all riding around here talking about, asking me if I'm working?" I said no. Yeah, but man, the boss man come here and see you. I said, "Well, he just would've seen me because I damn sure wasn't going to work until y'all were coming back." Yeah, but now we've got to work an hour overtime. I said, "Y'all can work an hour overtime but not me." | 38:21 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "When 4:15 come—" See, you've got 15 minutes to get your tools up and put on the truck. I said, "When 4:15 come, I'm knocking off." No, you ain't. You going to work an hour overtime. I said, "Not me." Say, "We don't lost—" I said, "Uh-uh, I ain't lost nothing. Y'all lost it. I was on the job but I wasn't working until y'all come back." You're going to work. I said, "You'll see." And 4:15 comes, look at my watch, and I took my tools and I throw it on the truck. Got inside and sit down. Man, I'm going to tell Mr. Smith, he was the head man, you know? I'm going to tell Mr. Smith when I get back to the job office—I said, "No, no. You ain't going to do no damn telling. I'm going to do that damn telling. I'm going to tell exactly why we ain't did no more." | 39:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "You going to tell? Uh-uh. That's my job. I'm going to tell him exactly why we ain't did nothing else. I should tell him [indistinct 00:41:06] I stayed in the tree shade until y'all come back, and we didn't get to work until 2:00." Look here, let's be friends. Let's be friends. Don't say nothing. I said, "Oh no, you don't say what you going to do, so now, hell, I know what I'm going to do." I said, "Goddammit, let's be friends? We wasn't friends when you take the other two damn fellows and that to the bell garden, and I was right there on the job. You didn't ask me nothing." I said, "No, I'm going to do that damn telling." | 40:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, he stopped [indistinct 00:41:57] four bottles of beer, come back out, hand me one. Said, "Uh-uh. I don't want it." Man, come on. Come on. I have three. I said, "I tell you I don't want no damn beer. I tell you, I don't want it." I wouldn't drink it. We got just about to the shop, he say, "Red—" I said, "[indistinct 00:42:24] when I get there. I just [indistinct 00:42:27] how I feel." I said, "I feel, I hope you [indistinct 00:42:32] I'm going to do the talking." He plead me, beg me, pleading. So, I get [indistinct 00:42:43] I didn't say nothing. | 41:52 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, the next day, they're working. Come on, Red. Let's go. We're going to get some beer. Come on. Come on. Let's go. We got to the place, he ordered beer. I said, "No, no, no. I'm paying for my beer. I've got money." I wouldn't drink his beer. No, no, no. I said, "[indistinct 00:43:10] I'm paying for my own." [indistinct 00:43:10] man, let's be friends. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry what I done. I was wrong. I'm sorry. And so then he tell the boss man, said, "You know, Bethune don't want to work. You talk about a lazy fellow, he won't do nothing." So, he tell that, thought the man would've fired me. | 42:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | So then, the next day, the man send me and one more White fellow to [indistinct 00:43:58] to cut some trees up low. You know the trees up on the ground, cut them up, get them out of the way, you know? So we went out there and he asked me. He said, "Bethune, you ever run a chainsaw before?" I said, "No, but I can run it." Well he said, "[indistinct 00:44:29] cut these logs up." I said, "Okay." So, he put the gas in, showed me how to crank it up. I said, "Okay, I got it." I'm out there now cutting the logs up, and he tell me, he say, "Look here. Man, you [indistinct 00:44:50] too darn fast." He said, "[indistinct 00:44:54] supposed to last us all day. Man, the way you working [indistinct 00:44:58] through by 12:00." I said, "I just don't like to sit around. I got to be doing something." | 43:48 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said, "You know one thing? Ain't you need to go in the bush?" I said, "No." He said, "I think he's going down there, and lay down in the shade some." I said, "I've been on [indistinct 00:45:23]." He said, "Man, [indistinct 00:45:26] job last all day, because if it don't, man, I don't want to go back on another job." He said, "Man, he tell us [indistinct 00:45:37]job will last us all day." He said, "Man, the way you working, shoot, you'll finish it in 12:00." | 45:06 |
Thelmer Bethune | So then, we went back, then the boss asked this fellow, he said, "How Bethune work?" He said, "Man, that's a damn good worker." He said, "Well, how the hell Greek tell me—" He said, "Man, Greek lie. Man, Bethune, that's a working damn man. You don't need to worry about him." He said, "I can't keep up with him." So, after that, then the boss wouldn't—After that, I tell the boss, I said, "I don't want to go with Greek no more." I said— | 45:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | I went to Summerton to the man, and I tell the man, I said, "Look here," old man. I said, "I want me a Ford tractor," and I say, "A new one," and I said, "I want a [indistinct 00:00:22], but that'd be all right, but I want a new tractor. I'm going to let you know to start with, I ain't got nary a penny to put down on it." He looked at me. He said, "What?" I said, "I want a new tractor. My cotton is up, growing, and the grass in there growing, and I need a [indistinct 00:00:50] to get that working. I ain't got nary a dime to put on it." He look at me. He said, "Thelmer, you [indistinct 00:01:06] to ask me for a new tractor, nothing down on it." He said, "Yeah. Check my pocket. Now, go out there. There's seven out there. Go out there and cut the tag off either one out there. There's seven new ones out there. Bring it back in here." I ran out, cut it off, bring it back in. | 0:02 |
Thelmer Bethune | He fixed the paper up. He said, "Now, when you going to make a payment?" I said, "This fall. I'll pay on ten this fall," but back then, it wasn't nothing but $1,668 for the new tractor. I said, "I'll pay you this fall." He said, "Now, I'll tell you the truth. I ain't never sold a tractor with nothing down." I come on back to the house, and I went to [indistinct 00:02:48] and I said, "Bill, I want $260. I've got to have me a tractor. Don't tell me about you ain't got it now, just go ahead and give me the money." He [indistinct 00:02:48] hand it to me. I turn, I go on back up there that evening. I walk in. He said, "Thelmer, I done sent the tractor out to your house. Tractor [indistinct 00:03:02] out there waiting on you." I said, "No, here, I come in here to bring you some money." I gave him $465. He said, "You know one thing? I pulled your bluff. You thought I wasn't going to let you have that tractor, but I pulled your bluff," but he didn't know, I didn't have no money. | 1:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | I just went in and got it and gave it to him. He said, "I pulled your bluff." If you straigt, people know you. I can go anywhere I want in there. | 3:26 |
Kisha Turner | How was it then with your relationships with White people in town? | 3:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | The people who I do—businessmen, they was all right. | 3:53 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 3:57 |
Thelmer Bethune | I know I went to Summerton, and I went to Old Man Sprott, he was living then, but now, his son wasn't worth two cent, and Old Man Sprott, I go in, $58. I paid him. He said, "But, Thelmer, you see the first man pay me. It must've been a good crop." I said, "Man, I ain't made no crop." He said, "Well, I know I ain't made none, and I got a fellow on my farm, I know he's a good man." He got 18 acres of cotton and said he wouldn't make but two bales. I said, "Man, I know. I ain't making nothing. I ain't got no money. But, I pay off my little debts, but my big debt, I can't pay it." He said, "What do you mean, big debt?" | 3:59 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "Well, I borrowed $2,200 from a man last year, and I gave my mortgage of my tractor, and 31 acres of land. I can't pay him." He said, "You want the interest?" I said, "No, I offered him more than that. I offered to give him $735." He said, "He wouldn't take it?" I said, "No, he said he wanted all or none." I tell him, I said, "But, you'll get all or none." He said, "Man, he can't take your tractor." I said, "Don't tell me what he can do. He got peoples, and they're good peoples." He said, "Not the ones I live." He said, "When it coming due?" I say, "In 30 days' time." But, I put it 30 days, it was 60 days, but I put it that. If he didn't come up with what he said, I had 30 days to go ahead and work some other place. | 4:59 |
Kisha Turner | Uh-huh. | 6:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said, "Well, you come back down here." 30 days up, I went back. I drive the tractor down there. I went in the store. I said, "That debt come due." He said, "All right." He said [indistinct 00:06:37] tractor. He said, "Get in my car." He walked behind the desk and he take out a blank check and stick in his shirt pocket, pen, come get in the car. Then, he come in slow, he walk in the store. He say, "Hello, BK." "Hey, Mr. Sprott. How are you doing?" "All right. BK, tell me, say you got a paper on him. You mind me looking at it?" "No, no, no. No. You can look at it." | 6:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said, "Thelmer, what you say is right. Well, Thelmer take it up, you don't have no objection?" "No, no, not unless Thelmer going to take it." I said, "Man, how the hell I got to [indistinct 00:07:22] and you going to foreclose on me? You know I ain't got no text from this man taking the paper." Sprott said, "Wait a minute. Thelmer got 30 more days on there. Let's figure the interest up." [indistinct 00:07:40] let's knock off $5. He said, "No, let's figure it, because I don't want Thelmer to beat you, and I ain't want you to beat Thelmer." | 7:10 |
Kisha Turner | Yeah. | 7:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | Old Man Sprott pick it up. He said, "Well, it'll be $10 and something cents." He said, "Let's knock off 10." [indistinct 00:07:56] that'll be all right. He said, "I ain't got no money with me, but I got a blank check. If you scared to take my check, I'll go back." The bank was already closed. It was 3:00. He said, "I'll go back and call Columbia and have the bank reopen and bring me the cash." He said, "Oh, no, no, no, no, man, I can take your check. I'll take your check." He write him a check. He say, "All right, sign down there." [indistinct 00:08:29] signed. He said, "Tell your wife to come out and sign." He signed. He said, "Well, [indistinct 00:08:36], you ready?" I said, "Yes sir." Go back down to his office. He say, "Now, how you want to let us fix this paper?" I said, "Wait a minute, let me give you the money, what I had for him." | 7:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | "You got some money?" I said, "Didn't I tell you I had some money for him and he said he wanted all or none?" I counted out seven $100 bills and the $37.20. He said, "Thelmer, I ain't paying but 1,500 for you." I said, "THat's right." He said, "How do want us to be able to pay off the 1,500? Five years?" I said, "Oh, no, no, no, no sir. No sir, that's too long." I said, "One year." He said, "No, no. Let's fix it. Things might get tough again, so don't say one year. Let's say three years. That'll just be $500 a year plus interest." I said, "Okay." He fix it. [indistinct 00:09:35] down there, pay him the $500 and interest. Next year, I paid him 500 and interest. That third year, I went there to give him the 500. He said, "Thelmer, I don't need that money. Just give me the interest and go ahead on with the $500." | 8:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | I pay him the interest, come on back. Next year, I went down there just to pay the interest. Come on back. Did that for three years, and the next year, my uncle tells me, say, "Thelmer, ain't you in a spot of little debt?" I say, "Yeah. $500." He said, "Well, you know you got the 3rd heart attack in the hospital, so you better go down there and pay it because I don't know how his boys going to act." I said, "Okay." I go down there that night, and I paid it. I give it to the secretary. | 9:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | I went down and paid it, and she said, "No, Thelmer. Mr. Sprott said just pay the interest and go ahead on." I said, "No, I want to pay it all tonight." She said, "Well, okay." I paid her. She marked it was paid in full and handed it to me. I went on back, went in that Monday, walk in the courthouse, give it to the clerk of the court, tell her to mark it off book. He look at it, and he said, "Thelmer, [indistinct 00:11:19] the real estate mortgage, I know it's paying now. I know it pays, but say you have to have two witness. It's a real estate mortgage. Take it back and tell her to get two witnesses, and then bring it back." | 10:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "Okay." I said, "Here, call her on the phone and tell her." He called and tell her, and she said, "Tell him to bring it on back." I ride on back down that evening, and she got two witnesses and I went on back. I take off. That Wednesday, the old man died. That next Saturday, I was in Summerton, and his son come out on the street talking to Henry MacDonald. He come, and he said, "Oh, Thelmer, how you doing?" I said, "All right." He said, "I want to see you a bit." I said, "Okay. [indistinct 00:12:12] you can talk to me now." I walked where he was. He said, "Thelmer, you know Daddy died?" I said, "Yeah, I heard about that. I'm sorry he died, because he's a good man." He said, "Yeah, that little debt you and Daddy, I'm going to have to have it or foreclose on the papers on the mortgage." I said, "I don't owe your daddy nothing." He said, "Oh, yeah, you owe him" | 11:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | I tell him, "No, no, uh-uh. I don't owe him nary a dime." I said, "I done paid that money, man. I done had them papers recorded in the courthouse." "Who you pay it to?" I say, "I paid it to his secretary, where I've been paying it all that time." "She didn't tell me." I said, "I ain't got nothing to do with that." He said, "What did she say?" See, if you hadn't signed that petition to integrate the schools, I wouldn't worry you. But, see, since you signed a petition to integrate the schools, that's why I'm going to have to have it or either foreclose on you." I went to walk off. He said, "Wait a minute. Maybe you ain't know what integration mean." I checked myself quick. I said, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Tell me what it mean." | 12:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said, "You know what it mean? My son can go to your house tonight and take your daughter on a ride and wouldn't be nothing to it. Would you like that?" I said, "That ain't nothing. Your son come and carry my daughter on a ride. My son carry your daughter on a ride. What's the difference?" That man turned. He looked like all the blood just leave him. Just like that. He turned around, and he walk off on me, and I said, "Wait a minute." He stopped. I said, "Let me ask you something. If you go to the store to buy some steak for your wife, and you ask the man, and the man tells you, 'This here is the best steak, this here is 40 cents a pound, this here ain't the best now, and you can get that for 20 cent a pound.'" I said, "Which would you buy for your family?" He said, "Oh, I'd buy the best." | 13:50 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 15:01 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "Well, listen, my Colored womens must be better than the White, because why y'all run after the Colored womens? You don't see no Colored men running to White women. You can't say it ain't so, because look at my color. Coming back from ever since slavery." That man, boy he cut loose, and he went on in and went back in his store. He ain't got nothing more to say to me. | 15:02 |
Kisha Turner | Wow. Was that common, White men pursuing Black women? | 15:40 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Sure. | 15:44 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 15:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | Back then, sure, man. You see a lot of real fair Colored children, and then the parents dark. She been with a White man. | 16:02 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 16:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | Out there messing. I tell him. I said, "Look at your hand, look at mine. Your hand ain't no brighter than mine. Their old [indistinct 00:16:21] parents mess up back in slavery." | 16:13 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 16:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "They still doing it. Not back—they still doing it. That night, come in, you'll see, they running around here with these Colored womens. You don't see no Colored man running around with a White. I say, "You know see trouble? [indistinct 00:16:50] down there, [indistinct 00:16:54] called me and tell me [indistinct 00:16:57] want me to take him out on bond, so I went down there to sign the bond. I went to the deputy sheriff, Will Wipps, and I tell hi, I say, "I come here to sign that bond." I went to the front door and I mashed the doorbell, and he come to the door. "I don't answer my front door for no nigger. If you want to talk to me, go around to the back." | 16:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | I started to get in my car and come on back home, but I thinking, but I stood there. I said, "A man in jail. He looking for me to take him out." I walk around there in the back. He come out there. Sit down in the porch. I was talking. He said, "Thelmer, why y'all [indistinct 00:18:03] but you know, I never see no Black children in that school," that little White school they had you know" I said, "Man, let me tell you something. Now, you know, we don't want to mix. But now, let me tell you something. See that pecan [indistinct 00:18:29] on your place? Now, that pecan not on your place. It's on the outside your fence in here. Now, when them pecans fall, the [indistinct 00:18:37] by the fence, but it's on the other man land, but the limbs over on your place. Now, when them pecans fall on your side, you going to let that man come and get them pecans? No. They're my damn pecans, fall on my place." | 17:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "Okay. Well, because you're raising [indistinct 00:19:03], now, we're going to assure you that the Colored going to be in that school next year." I said, "We can assure you that. If it don't, you'll be dead if you don't want to see it." See, the first time when we signed petition— | 18:53 |
Kisha Turner | Which petition did you sign? | 19:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | The first one we signed was to have separate but equal schools, and [indistinct 00:19:45] he was the lawyer then, but he's dead a long time now from Columbia. He carried the papers down there to Charleston to Judge Warren, and he looked at him and he said, "This ain't what y'all want. This ain't going to do you no good. Separate but equal, how you know y'all getting the same thing y'all learnt school as the White [indistinct 00:20:16]. How you know when it's separate? I ain't going to sign these." He tear them up. He said, "Go back and bring me a petition to integrate the schools, and I'll sign it." Then, lawyer [indistinct 00:20:34] come back, and he bring the papers that night from Columbia, and lawyer and [indistinct 00:20:46] and Ms. Simpson, and oh, sure. They end up preaching with him. I can't hardly think of his name now. | 19:31 |
Kisha Turner | Deland? | 20:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | Huh? | 20:56 |
Kisha Turner | Deland? | 20:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | No, no, no, Deland, he been already leave. | 20:58 |
Kisha Turner | Out of there, okay. Yeah. | 21:05 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. This fellow, he was—Oh, I can't think of his name now. Anyhow, he brought the papers there to sent [indistinct 00:21:20] any church in [indistinct 00:21:22], and he put it on the table. He said, "All right, now I'm going to tell you what this is [indistinct 00:21:30]. Judge Warren tear up the other papers. He wouldn't sign them. These are the papers here now to sign petition to sign to integrate the schools. I'm going to tell y'all now before you sign them what it is, so you come here, and then you sign and then you go back and tell people, tell the White people you didn't know what you was signing, and [indistinct 00:21:55] he tell you to sign, but you don't know what you're signing. I'm going to tell you what it is before you sing. I got to have so many of them to carry in." | 21:09 |
Thelmer Bethune | People start looking at one another. [indistinct 00:22:06] like that. I was sitting there by William Regan, Henry MacDonald. I said, "Hell, I'll go on and sign." I said, "Hell, I done lived some, and if I die today or tomorrow, I want to die helping my children and my great-great grandchildren, and not only mine, other people children to have them get a better education than what I got. Hell, I'll go on and sign." I got [indistinct 00:22:40] and signed then William Regan and other started getting up and come up here and sign. We didn't got too many sign that night. | 22:04 |
Thelmer Bethune | Til the man tell him he had three weeks to get them counted. [indistinct 00:22:57] signed them, and went to schools, and let me tell you something. That time, people, man, they was out there cutting people, didn't want no credit, and man, Summerton one time, you talk about before then, Summerton was a booming town. Summerton had three gins [indistinct 00:23:27] of them running. Grayson had a gin, and Harwin had a gin. McCleary and Hanson had a gin running. Man, them cotton people—Man, oh, man. | 22:48 |
Thelmer Bethune | All the gins were busy. Then, [indistinct 00:23:48] man, them White people, the lady was renting Colored people land. [indistinct 00:23:55] man, they took that land back, and a lot of them was sharecropping. They take it back. The stores, they wouldn't credit you, and didn't want to gin the cotton. But, Grayson ginned it. He'd gin it, but them other fellows [indistinct 00:24:19] not ginning cotton, and man, [indistinct 00:24:25] wouldn't credit you, you know? | 23:42 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 24:26 |
Thelmer Bethune | I told them I was doing business with APT, and man, it stopped letting me have money. It's the same book, Sprott, I was getting gas from him. A lot of us farmers was buying gas from him, and man, he said he wasn't going to let us have no more gas unless we had the cash money to pay for it. | 24:30 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 25:03 |
Thelmer Bethune | Before, we'd been getting it, every 30 days, we pay [indistinct 00:25:11] two months, we'd pay it, but from then on, he said no gas unless you have the cash money. When the fellows tell me that, I went down there to [indistinct 00:25:29] uncle, and I tell him, and he say, "You going to need gas for your tractor down there. You need a tank?" I tell him, "No, I got a tank." He said, "Well, you want me to [indistinct 00:25:47] now?" I said, "No, I got some here now." He said, "Well, when you're out, call me, and I'll come fill it up." I said, "Okay." He said, "Money or no money." When the gas got down low, I called him. He come there to fill it up. See, the tank, I get the tank from [indistinct 00:26:07] Sprott, but whose tank, you know? [indistinct 00:26:11] doing business with him, but when that come up, then they stop, so we wasn't buying no gas. We're not paying no cash. | 25:05 |
Thelmer Bethune | I was deer hunting that day, and I come home that night, and my wife tells me— | 26:15 |
Kisha Turner | You were hunting? | 26:24 |
Thelmer Bethune | Huh? | 26:24 |
Kisha Turner | You were doing— | 26:24 |
Thelmer Bethune | I was deer hunting that day. | 26:28 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 26:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | I used to deer hunt every Tuesday [indistinct 00:26:30] in the sand hills. | 26:28 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 26:33 |
Thelmer Bethune | I come in that night, my wife tell me, say, "Brook Sprott been here, and come for his tank. I tell him, 'You can't carry that tank. You got gas in that tank.' He asked me where you get the gas from. I tell him I don't know the man. I tell him to ask you, you'll tell him." He said, "Well, tell him to tell you to come down there. He want to talk with you." I said, "Okay." I wouldn't go right away. I wait about two to three weeks, and I went on down there. I walk in the place. I said, "How you doing?" "Hello, Thelmer. What can I do for you?" I said, "My wife tells me you been [indistinct 00:27:25] and asked me to come down there, you want to see me." He said, "Oh, yeah. Thelmer, I was up there to get my tank, and you had gas in it." I said, "Yeah." He said, "Who put that gas in there?" I said, "Mr. Arlow Lane." | 26:35 |
Thelmer Bethune | Who put gas in my tank? I said, "I tell him, put it in there." I said, "I tell him to put it in there." "Yeah, but you know that's my tank." I said, "Yeah, but you know I have to have gas, and I tell him to put it in there." He said, "Well, how about when you get it empty, how about let me know, and I'll pick it up." I said, "Okay." I started, and I got half the way coming out the store. I changed my mind. I walked back there. I said, "Look here. I ain't going to let you get that tank. I'll pay for the tank, because I going to let you move it. What do you want for it?" He said, "Well, I'll take $50 for it." I said, "Okay. I'll pay you in a few days." I could've paid then, but I just wasn't paying. I come on home. I wait about a month. I went back in there. I said, "How you doing? I come in here to pay you for that gas tank." | 27:45 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said, "Oh, how much I tell you?" I said, "You tell me $50." His son was in there. His son said, "Daddy, how you going to sell him that tank for $50, and them tanks we got out there cost us $65? You going to be loss in that much money?" He said, "I have to have $60 for it." I said, "Okay. I'll give you the $60. Here. I don't mind giving you $10 more. Just know that your word ain't worth a damn." I walk on out. Later on, he send his son up here. I was out there planting cotton that day. [indistinct 00:30:02] His son come up in the yard. My wife went to the door, and she said, "Who you want to see?" "I want to see your husband." [indistinct 00:30:18] Said, "Go on across there if you want to see him." | 28:57 |
Thelmer Bethune | He walk across there where I was. "How you doing? I said, "I'm doing fine. How you doing?" "All right." [indistinct 00:30:32] he know whether to say something about it. He said, "Daddy sent me up here to sell you some gas." I said, "Wait a minute, boy. You the wrong somebody house. You know what my name is? My name's Thelmer Bethune." He said, "I know. Daddy tell me to come here. Daddy tell me to stop by [indistinct 00:31:12] house." I said, "Wait a minute. Hold it. [indistinct 00:31:19] end up buying some gas from you?" | 30:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | "No, no, no, no, no. He didn't buy none." I said, "I just wanted to know. If he did, I was going in there and take my knife and cut his damn throat, because he know damn well we don't supposed to buy no more gas from y'all." | 31:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | "No, no, he didn't buy none. He didn't buy none." I said, "Okay." | 31:32 |
Kisha Turner | Y'all were boycotting him? | 31:39 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 31:40 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 31:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "No. I'm doing business with a fine man." "But, Daddy want to know, could he slip you in a tank every now and then?" I said, "No. Tell him no. I don't do business like that. Tell him I don't do business with him. I don't need nobody to slip no gas in." | 31:42 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 31:59 |
Thelmer Bethune | Since I done stopped [indistinct 00:32:02] another man, I ain't letting nobody else [indistinct 00:32:04] no gas either. I said, "I'm doing business with a fine man." Boy, I mean, he lost about—I count up about 37 customers, he lost, because all us just quit, you know? | 31:59 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 32:22 |
Thelmer Bethune | I gave [indistinct 00:32:27] | 32:22 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. I was talking to Bobby Fleming, and he told me to ask you how you got the nickname The Judge. | 32:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | Oh. Up on the deer hunt, back then, we would try people, if they miss a day and had a good shot out there and miss him, then we would bring him up to Cannery Court. | 32:43 |
Kisha Turner | Oh, okay. | 32:58 |
Thelmer Bethune | [indistinct 00:32:59] the judge, and I passed the sentence how much [indistinct 00:33:15] to give him for missing. | 32:59 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 33:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | His first time was light. Then, if he missed the next time, you got more. | 33:21 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 33:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | That's when everybody started calling me Judge. | 33:34 |
Kisha Turner | Oh, okay. Okay. Can we backtrack a little bit? Do you remember the Depression or issues like WPA workers or anything like that? | 33:38 |
Thelmer Bethune | Oh, shoot. [indistinct 00:33:51] people 40 cents a day. | 33:51 |
Kisha Turner | Really? | 33:52 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, and you had to walk back then, you had to carry your own tools. They didn't give you no tools to work with. | 33:53 |
Kisha Turner | What kind of work did you do? | 34:01 |
Thelmer Bethune | Cleaned up ditches and things in the road. | 34:03 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 34:08 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. I walk, I didn't have this place here then. I was staying at my mother place, farm, back further down. Walked me out to Minola to work, and you had to leave in the night and come in the night [indistinct 00:34:30] 10 hours, 40 cents a day. That was four cents a hour. I kept that 40 cents and my mother was [indistinct 00:34:45] sick, and I'd buy medicine for her, and I'd buy groceries, and I [indistinct 00:34:56] see, back then, Dr. [indistinct 00:35:00] was living, and he didn't charge but a dollar and a half for examinations, and give you [indistinct 00:35:07] for a dollar and a half. He seemed to make a good living at it like that. He didn't charge nobody but a dollar and a half, and give you the medicine. | 34:09 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 35:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | I care for her, and then I hired somebody to carry me up there, because I didn't have no car back then. I hired somebody to carry me, and this fellow would carry for a dollar and a half, and then, her doctor was a dollar and a half. All out that 40 cent. I'd save [indistinct 00:35:40] I'd buy groceries, and next week, I didn't have to buy no groceries, see, because grocery cheap back then. On Saturday, when I made that 40 cent, it was $2 on Friday in a little envelope. Man, I'd come back home, and I'd give that to my mother. Some time on Saturday, she'd tell me, say, "I know I ought to give you more than this, but I got bills to pay. I got insurance to pay, and I can't give you but 10 cent." I tell her, "That be all right." I take that 10 cent, and I go to Silver, and I go in the store, and I get me 10 pennies, and you'd have a little crap game down by the depot. They had a little depot there at Silver then. | 35:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | [indistinct 00:36:52] hauling loads, and I'd take that 10 pennies, I'd go out there, and they had a penny game, and then a two cent game over there, and then a three cent game. I'd get in the penny game, and I'd hustle up about 20 cent out the penny game, then I'd jump in the two cent game, and I'd hustle up about 25 or 30 cent, then I'd get on the big game of three cent. I'd get [indistinct 00:37:29] and sometimes I'd hustle up, I'd get about, some time, a dollar to a dollar and a quarter, a dollar and a dime, then I'd just quit. | 36:51 |
Thelmer Bethune | I'd say, "Boys, I'm broke. [indistinct 00:37:42] I ain't got no more money." "Man, you [indistinct 00:37:46]" I said, "Y'all tell me. Y'all let me shoot for free?" "No. No, no." I'd get up there and I'd go in the store, and I'd [indistinct 00:37:56] back, and I'd get some silver money. I'd get me a couple of cigars. Back then, you could get two for a nickel. I'd smoke one, and I'd save one to smoke on Sunday. I'd take that 10 cent, and hustle me up money. | 37:39 |
Kisha Turner | Make you some money? Yeah. | 38:15 |
Thelmer Bethune | And, sometimes, she'd be able to give me 15 cent. | 38:17 |
Kisha Turner | Who was this? | 38:23 |
Thelmer Bethune | Sometimes, my mother would be able to sometimes give me 15 cent. | 38:25 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 38:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | [indistinct 00:38:29] the money, and I didn't say nothing, because [indistinct 00:38:32] I'd come in and hand it to her. | 38:29 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 38:38 |
Thelmer Bethune | But, she don't do that now. [indistinct 00:38:45] All the children out there got nowhere [indistinct 00:38:46] parents are scared to ask them how much they get. | 38:39 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. Were you or your family affected by the boll weevil? | 38:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That time, it was [indistinct 00:39:02] short crop? | 38:58 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 39:02 |
Thelmer Bethune | Man, them boll weevils ate up all that crop that year. Crazy. That's why I wasn't able to pay [indistinct 00:39:10] debt. | 39:02 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 39:02 |
Thelmer Bethune | Because them boll weevils eat up the crop. | 39:02 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. How about World War II? Do you remember people who went? | 39:10 |
Thelmer Bethune | To war? | 39:24 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 39:25 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, but, I knew people, but I had volunteered to go. | 39:26 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 39:37 |
Thelmer Bethune | But, the man never take me, because [indistinct 00:39:45] Fort Jackson for the examination, be examined, you know? Man asked me, said, "Why you want to go in the service?" | 39:38 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 39:58 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, "Well, I said people going and fighting, I want to go too." He said, "No, I'll tell you. You're farming. Somebody got to farm to take care to feed the soldiers. You doing a good job on the farm. You raising corn and stuff like that and hogs and [indistinct 00:40:28] like that. Now, ain't nothing wrong with your health. Your health is all right. But, we have to have farmers to grow the stuff to take care of the soldiers. You go on back home on your farm. You going to end up being a farmer." | 40:00 |
Kisha Turner | You didn't go? Do you remember the soldiers, seeing soldiers return home? | 40:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember [indistinct 00:41:10] My cousin, he [indistinct 00:41:16], well, he was in the service, but he dead now. | 41:06 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. You said that your house burned? | 44:10 |
Thelmer Bethune | Uh-huh. | 44:12 |
Kisha Turner | What happened? | 44:12 |
Thelmer Bethune | Well, [indistinct 00:41:31] when he come back, he got married. No, he went to New York, and he lived there. He got grown children. He got grandchildren, and he died in New York back here about, oh, I'd say at least five or six years ago. I had two boys [indistinct 00:41:57] service, but they [indistinct 00:42:04] I got one boy, he lived there behind Schofield, he did 20 years in service, 20 years and a few months, and but he was out, and now, oh, let's see, he went in when he was 16 years old. I had to sign for him to go in. He made 20 years and a few months. | 44:13 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 44:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | Then, when he got out of service, he was stationed in Alaska, and his family, he got married while in service, then his family was in Alaska. When he got out of service, then he work on that pipeline, and on the union, and he done retired from the union. That was—Oh, he was in the service 20 years and some months, and then, he worked in Alaska about, I'd say, wait a minute, let's see, about 12, 13 years, then he retired from that and the Army now. | 44:13 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 44:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | He lived [indistinct 00:44:14] behind Schofield, now. | 44:13 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 44:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | My other boy, the oldest boy, he stayed in service, I think, for three years, and then, [indistinct 00:44:14] had three years then, but he never reenlist. | 44:13 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. You mentioned that, did your house burn at one point? | 44:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, uh-huh. | 44:13 |
Kisha Turner | What happened? | 44:13 |
Thelmer Bethune | That time, [indistinct 00:44:20] we was had [indistinct 00:44:33] for the schools and things, you know, fighting integration, and I went to New York to carry my oldest son [indistinct 00:44:44]. He was in service. He was stationed in Germany, and he was married, and his wife was in New York. When he come on the vacation, his wife come home, and then, I went to carry him. I carried him and his wife back to New York in the car. My wife, I'd tell her to stay down [indistinct 00:45:25] my grandchildren [indistinct 00:45:27] in the house with [indistinct 00:45:33] and I had [indistinct 00:45:37] Regan, I had moved her family, her son up here, because the man who was staying on the [indistinct 00:45:44], he had put them out. They had to move, and so I moved them up there. | 44:19 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 45:49 |
Thelmer Bethune | Then, I'd tell my wife to stay there, because she get scared staying by herself. I tell her stay there until [indistinct 00:45:58] son and his wife to New York. Then, I went by Jersey, and my son-in-law went with me in on to New York, and I carried my boy, and then I come on back in Clifton, New Jersey, and [indistinct 00:46:23] | 45:49 |
Kisha Turner | [indistinct 00:00:02] | 0:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | Uh-huh. Yeah. | 0:03 |
Kisha Turner | Your wife called you. | 0:10 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Yeah. | 0:10 |
Kisha Turner | And said the house had been burned. | 0:10 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 0:10 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 0:10 |
Thelmer Bethune | And some people say, about that, that I was burnt it down, but you know. And then I got a letter out my mailbox, it had come from the Klans. | 0:10 |
Kisha Turner | Hmm. | 0:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | They didn't have no name in the letter, but they tell me, say I better keep quiet because, see, the KKK is still working. | 0:34 |
Kisha Turner | Hmm. What year was this? | 0:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | Huh? | 0:49 |
Kisha Turner | Do you know around what year this happened? | 0:50 |
Thelmer Bethune | Let's see now. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. I'll tell you the truth. That was in the '60s. | 0:53 |
Kisha Turner | In the '60s? Okay. | 0:58 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 1:09 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 1:12 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I took the letter and I carried it down to the Manning and showed it to the sheriff. Sheriff Jackson, he was the sheriff then. And he looked at it and he tells me, say, ain't nothing he can do about it because there ain't no names signed on it, you know? | 1:22 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 1:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I tell him, I said, I ain't coming up here to do nothing about it. I just come to show it to you. I said, because when I come out here to show it to you so when the Devil come home and I send a few son of a guns to Hell or Heaven, you'll know why I do it. | 1:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I said, that's why I showed you the letter. I said, I ain't come up here for no help. I said, I got six friends and they ain't never let me down. | 2:09 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 2:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I said, that's I depend on my six my friends. And I reached in my belt and I take my gun out, and lay it on his desk. And he went to, he get the bullet, I say wait a minute. I said, this your office, it ain't mine. | 2:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I come on back and I went to Summerland that Saturday night and I tell Alan Fleming about the letter. I tell him I done been down there to show it to Sheriff Jackson. He said, you had a witness? I said no. He said, you know, he could say you ain't been there. He said, I wish you would've carried a witness with you. | 2:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | I said, wait a minute. I said, the FBI here in Summerland. I said let's go around there. I said you be a witness. Let's go down there and show it to him. He said all right. | 2:58 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I went around there to the FBI agency in Summerland. And I went in the door and I mash the doorbell. And they were four or five White people in there talking. And so he come to the door. And I tell him, come out here, I want to show you something, and I show him the letter. | 3:12 |
Thelmer Bethune | And he look at it and he read it. And he said, Bethune, they ain't got no name on there. Who sent it? And I don't know who to see about it. I said no, I ain't come here for that. I say in been to Manning show it to the Sheriff down there. But I ain't have no witness. I say, why I show it to you, I got a witness that I show it to you. | 3:35 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I say, and you can tell him I will prepare supper for him. And tell them I hope they won't let it spoil. I say that's what I come here to let you know. So, if you know any of them you can tell them I'm gone cook supper for them. And tell them I don't want it to spoil. That's because some nights I'm gone cook turkey. I say, you know that's a pretty expensive dish for it to go to the bad. | 4:11 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 4:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I say, I depend on my friends are a good shot. I say I got six friends, they ain't never let me down. And I say, that's what I depend on. And ain't never hear nothing else from him. | 4:51 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 5:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I left them one night, I left from splitting cotton that day and I was dusty. And tell my wife, I say you know, I say I feel like me a drink. And I say come on ride with me. I say, I'm going over to Silver. I say I'm gone get me a drink. She said all right, I go with you. | 5:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | And when I got out to the road, going out to Peaboy, you know going to Silver. | 5:44 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 5:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I got down there, when me and Ophelia got down there, to them trailers either on of them, something instruct me like that to go back home. And I just wheel around. My wife said I thought you was going to Silver to get a drink. I said, I changed my mind. | 5:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I come driving back fast. And I turned to come down through by the fence, I seen a car light beaming the barn with the flash on. And I drive fast and in that time, they jump in the car. And they been five head in there and I catch them around the curb. And I stopped right in the center of the road. They couldn't pass— | 5:57 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 6:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | Because I had at that time I had come cows and I had a cow pasture on that side and a wire fence. And they couldn't pass. And I stopped right there. I said what you doing back up in here? I said who you come here to see? | 6:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | We hunting the road to Mr. Ingraham house. I say he don't live back up here. I say I live in here. And I say this here is a private road. I say you better be particular coming back up in here. I say see that light over yonder? I say that's where Ingraham live. | 6:50 |
Thelmer Bethune | Two fellas in the front, three was in the back, and one fella hold his head down like that in the back. And I realized who it was, it was Epps, one of the deputies. And so, I said back out the way and I will give you room to come through. | 7:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | So they backed back and I pull on the side. And then instead of going up there to Ingraham house, car turned on that place, that way. Would have been something I changed my mind, something said go back home. So I don't know what they was intending do, you know. | 7:48 |
Kisha Turner | Yeah. | 8:07 |
Thelmer Bethune | See, when my mind changed, I'm protecting mine. And I whipped out and come on back. And they see the car coming in and they jump in the car, take off. | 8:07 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I didn't hide my gun I just laid in on the seat by me. I had none of, nobody to stop me. | 8:20 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 8:38 |
Thelmer Bethune | Because I was gone, I tell them all, I say I'm gone damn sure send some. I tell them I will have my great, great, great-grandchildren read about your great granddaddy, how much soul he send to Hell or Heaven. | 8:38 |
Thelmer Bethune | I say if I go down, I'm gone dame sure carry some fellas with me. I say I ain't going down by myself. | 9:01 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 9:09 |
Thelmer Bethune | I ain't had nobody. | 9:09 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 9:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | Like I tell you too, I don't know, I never got scared. I figure I done lived some myself, a man nothing but a man. So that's what John Henry said, a man nothing but a man. Who he lay his deal with die and die with the hammer in his your hand. | 9:22 |
Thelmer Bethune | And that's what I intend to do, so. My parents always teach me, say don't pick at nobody but then don't let nobody run over you. | 9:47 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 10:07 |
Thelmer Bethune | Say, ain't but two things a man or a monkey. Say if you don't end a man, you's a monkey. I made up my mind, I was gone do the right thing. And it's like my parents teach about debt. He say, dad tell me say always say, if you owe debt, pay it. And said if you go to borrow money from a fellow and say if you put up a hundred dollars, and he tell you you can get two or three don't get it. | 10:15 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 10:59 |
Thelmer Bethune | Just get that one. Because PD coming and you can pay that one back quicker than you can three. I know I went to the bank, I tried to tell you about after he had turned me down. | 11:01 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 11:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | I went to the bank— | 11:16 |
Kisha Turner | When who turned you down? | 11:18 |
Thelmer Bethune | FET. | 11:19 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 11:19 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I was working down at FCE and so, I went to the bank and I walk in there and I tell the man—I never been to the bank talking about borrowing no money, not the National Bank. And so, I walk in there and actually I was borrowing the money from FET, but my tobacco come in and I didn't have the money to put it in because the little money that they let me have done run out. | 11:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | I went to them and tell them I need so more money to put my tobacco in. FET talking about can't have no more. I say me and my wife can't put that tobacco in by ourself. Well, you can't have more money. | 11:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I go on to the National Bank. And I walk in there and man ask me what can I do for you. And I tell him, now look here, I say I come here to borrow some money. I say now I'm gone let you know to start with I borrow money with [indistinct 00:12:32] to farm with this year and the money out. And I need some money to put my tobacco in. And he said how much money you borrow from them, and I tell him. | 12:16 |
Thelmer Bethune | He said how much corn you got to planted and I tell him. How much cotton, and I tell him. How much tobacco, and I tell him. He said how much money you want? I say I need two hundred dollars. He say well that ain't gone do you no good. He say two hundred dollars ain't go do you no good. He say how about you get seven hundred dollars. | 12:40 |
Thelmer Bethune | I say no I don't want that much. He say well, two hundred ain't go do you nothing. He say I tell you what we do. He say fix up for seven hundred and if you don't get it, you don't pay no insurance. You just pay us on what you get. I say okay. | 13:04 |
Thelmer Bethune | So, he say how much you want to carry with you now? I say two hundred. So he give me two hundred dollars and I come on. And the next week, I put my tobacco in, put the [indistinct 00:13:41] and I cure it out. In order pull it, I cure it. And next week I put in another crop and it cure out pretty. And so, I put it in the barn and I cover it up. | 13:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so my wife, and I got another lady help her get all the stick. Put it in [indistinct 00:14:06] to carry it to Timmonsville to the market. The market in [indistinct 00:14:11], I carry to the man who run the warehouse, you know. And they would always buy it. So I carry it up there. And the man give me fifty-eight cents a round. | 13:57 |
Thelmer Bethune | I come on back, I went on to the bank. I walk in there and say how you doing? He say, tell me you come for you other money? I say no, I come to pay back what I got, what I get from you. He say what? I say I come to pay back the two hundred dollars I get. He say really? I say yeah, I carry some tobacco to Timmonsville and sell. And I say I got the money, I want to pay that back what I got. | 14:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | And he say you the first man come in here talking about money. I say I lend $48,000 and they ain't come back to pay nan nickel. I said well my daddy always tell me say the best time to pay a debt is when you got the money. He say look a here, he say another year, how about come and borrow money. We let you have money to farm with and [indistinct 00:15:29]. I tell him okay. | 15:01 |
Thelmer Bethune | So that next year, I wouldn't go to FET. They write me, sent me a card to come down and pick up money for the farm. I wouldn't go. Sent me three cards, I wouldn't go. So then I went to the National Bank and I tell the man, I say I come to in for a loan. He say all right, he say how you want to borrow. I said oh about $5,500. He said, that ain't gone be enough money. I say, I believe I can make out with that. He say, well, I tell you. I ain't worried about your application passing. He said but you know I got to go before the board, I carry it before the board. And the board meeting Wednesday night and said come back Thursday or Friday and I will tell you what is what. I say, okay. | 15:31 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I went back there Friday. I walk in there, he say you come for your money? I say oh no, no, I just come to see whether the loan passed. He say oh, yeah. Man your application went through just like that. He say you know how much money you can borrow right now if you wanted? I said well I sure hope it will be about five hundred and five thousand dollars. He said oh man, you know you can get $40,000 today if you wanted. I say I appreciate the offer but I just want $5,500. He say you can't do out that. | 16:30 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say I tell you, what you gone make out for sell without $500. I say okay. So, he say how much you want to carry now? I say I don't want to carry none now. I say I will pick up some later. He say all right. So I didn't go back until April. I walked back in there, I say I'm gone get $2,500. He say all right. He say the other is [indistinct 00:17:45] for it, I tell him okay. | 17:14 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I never did get but $5,500 and I went back there and repeated. He say how you get by with such a little bit of money? I say well, I say you've got to live close. I say I grow practically what I eat. I say I got my own chickens, my own eggs, my own vegetables. I say my own meat. I say milk, cows, I say ain't much money I need to spend. Otherwise, I've tied up on my farm. I got a few hogs I sell. And I say I got a few cows if I sometimes get in tight and carry one to the market and sell it. He say well, the doors open anytime you get ready. | 17:48 |
Thelmer Bethune | So then I borrow from the bank and I quit farming. Because I borrowed from them since that and I go down there and I got me a truck. I went to the bank and tell them, I got a new truck out there and I say I need enough money to pay for it. He say all right, how much you need? | 19:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | I say well, I say the balance I owe on it is $7,000. He say all right, make out a check. He say, here [indistinct 00:19:43]. And I paid the bank. And I don't own nothing now. Man tell me anytime you need money— | 19:26 |
Kisha Turner | You still own the land? | 20:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Oh yeah, I got the land. I done got all of it turned over to my children. I don't own it now myself, I done gave the Will to my children. | 20:02 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 20:09 |
Thelmer Bethune | They got the deed and title to it. I figure I do that while I'm living. I have four girls and two boys and I had surveyor to come out here and to survey it all. | 20:19 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 20:34 |
Thelmer Bethune | Like how I want it run. And I got every [indistinct 00:20:40]. | 20:34 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 20:40 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I give it to them while I was living. They got the deed and title to it. | 20:42 |
Kisha Turner | The land that your grandfather had that was split up— | 20:49 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 20:53 |
Kisha Turner | Do you have that now, was that passed down— | 20:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | No. | 20:53 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 20:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | My daughter got it. | 20:53 |
Kisha Turner | Your daughter, okay. And then you bought more land? | 20:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah, I bought this here. Everything I got go to the children. | 20:54 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 21:06 |
Thelmer Bethune | I got it fixed for the children so that when I die, they ain't have to worry about who gone get this or gone get that because they already got it in their name. They got the deed and title to it. | 21:07 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 21:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | And the daughter I let have the house, I had the lawyer to draw in there that I got possession of the house as long as I live. | 21:22 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 21:36 |
Thelmer Bethune | I'm good as long as I live. It's here house, she paying the tax every month, but I got a place as long as I live. | 21:36 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 21:46 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I say I will fix it while I'm living because I see too many people die and leave land and the children run lawsuits. And the lawyer eat it all in court. | 21:50 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 22:06 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. And I say I'm gone fix it up while in living and my oldest daughter died but her portion, she had two children. And I give her portion to her two children. | 22:15 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. All right. Thank you. | 22:28 |
Kisha Turner | You talking about you went to Winston-Salem in 1931? | 22:29 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. I was making 16 cents an hour, $7.20 a week. I gave my brother Charlie $3 for board and I sent my mother the other $4 home. | 22:35 |
Kisha Turner | You were working for? | 22:53 |
Thelmer Bethune | R.J. Reynolds tobacco plant. Working the plug department, makes plug tobacco. I was one of the stray boys, 16 cents and hour. Boy that was big money back then. How I was able to get some extra money to spend, after I done made my cents. One day I was spraying the plug tobacco and something stick my hand. I say this tobacco stick my hand. I say look like a splinter in this tobacco, I went to pull I out and two fellas running the press so no, don't pull it out. They say show it to the boss man. Say man he will give you a half hour for that. | 22:59 |
Thelmer Bethune | I went and show it to him and he take his pliers and he pull it out. And he tell me he say, anytime you find a plug of tobacco with a stick it or piece of wire, he say bring it to me. He say and I will give you a half hour for it. I say okay. | 23:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say because this will ruin somebody mouth and they can sue the company you know. | 23:59 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 24:03 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so then I started picking up some time two extra and sometimes it be three hours extra I pick up during the week working there you know. And man I had extra money then, sometimes instead of having 11 cents sometimes shoot, I would have 50 cent. Then I'd ride the street car up there. | 24:03 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 24:32 |
Thelmer Bethune | And then I go in the movie and come back out. | 24:35 |
Kisha Turner | Were the movies segregated? I mean did you have to sit in a certain area? | 24:35 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. Upstairs the Whites, and downstairs— | 24:43 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 24:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | And every Saturday evening, I go up there and I see the movie. | 24:49 |
Kisha Turner | And you were what, 16? | 24:56 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. I was 16 when I started working at R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Plant. And I went to the employment office and I went there I believe it was four days before I got hired. And the man coming in looking like that and he say I'm looking for a couple of boys. And some grown mans in there, no. And so a gentleman said I'm ready to work. | 25:03 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I was sitting in there, he say, you come here. I got up and I walk over there. He say you want to work? I say yes sir. I say I want to work. He say where you from? I say I'm from South Carolina. He say oh, you's a good worker then. He say well, come here. He say you take this here, he give me a note. He say come here, take it and see that building down there, go in that door there and they will show you what to do. | 25:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I carried it on there and I hand it to the man. He looked at it and he give it to another fellow in there. And then the other fellow say, come here. He say go in this here room here and take your clothes off. I say all of them? He say, yeah all of them. | 26:20 |
Thelmer Bethune | So the doctor come in there and check me. He say, yeah you in good health. He say, all right, you check out good. He say here, and he give me a script. He say come here. He say you know where [indistinct 00:27:01] factory at? I tell him no sir. I say I just leave to come up here. He say come here let me show you. | 26:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say go down one block, turn, go down two blocks and then turn back right and go one block. He said you walk right into the factory. And he say go in there and give the boss man this note. | 27:09 |
Thelmer Bethune | So I went on in there and hand the boss, I never forget his name was Mr. Will. He was from Georgia and I hand it to him. And he look at it and he say all right, he say come here. And he had another fella spraying tobacco there. The boss man call him shorty. Come here Shorty, he said take this boy out and show him how to spray this tobacco. He say you go and work with Shorty. | 27:28 |
Thelmer Bethune | And he show me how to spray tobacco to catch four plugs in each hand and you catch four like that, you do them like that. And spray it out, you know. | 28:09 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 28:21 |
Thelmer Bethune | Now if you miss and grab three instead of four, you pick up one and put it back there. But you learn to get four every time you see. And so I worked with him until 12 and clock out and eat lunch. So I didn't carry no lunch because I went to the employment office and I didn't have no lunch. So then the boss man say, you ain't gone get you no lunch? I say I didn't bring no lunch, I say I didn't know I was gone get the job. | 28:22 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say wait a minute. He say I got more lunch than I'm gone eat. He say come on, I will give you some lunch. I say no, I'm not hungry. He say come on, he say I got more lunch than I'm gone eat. | 28:50 |
Thelmer Bethune | And so I will never forget he had some biscuit and cheese sandwich. And then had a jelly sandwich. | 29:12 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 29:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | And he give me two of them. And then so I had to go back to work, so then he put me by myself. Then he put Shorty on another job. And I say great, I thought I was, man I don't know if I can do this here. And so the two Colored fellows there run the press, he say you can do it. Just take your time, he say don't get nervous. He say just take your time. He say your will learn in no time. Shoot, that next day I went racing with them fellas in there spraying that tobacco. | 29:27 |
Thelmer Bethune | and so I worked there two months and the boss man tell me, he say Methune, he say you is a good worker. He say, you know, your state next to mine. He say, I come from Georgia and he said, South Carolina next to Georgia. He say, you know, I'm gone give you a two cent raise this week. And he say them other boys I'm not. Some of them been there a year. | 30:03 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 30:47 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I ain't give them no raise. Say they ain't getting but the same 16 cents. He say now you ain't doing no more work than what they doing, you ain't doing a bit more. But, he say you, I notice you. When you spray your tobacco up, you sit on your table until the next ship come down, you know to spray it. | 30:48 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 31:11 |
Thelmer Bethune | And when them other boys when they sprayed theirs up, and then they would run up on the other end of the factory where the womens up there. They was putting the stamps on tobacco. That time they was putting these metal stamps on tobacco. Like we was making apple sun cured tobacco. And they had a little metal stamp with a apple print on it and had two little sticks in it pushed own in the tobacco you see. | 31:12 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. The women did that? | 31:41 |
Thelmer Bethune | Yeah. | 31:45 |
Kisha Turner | Okay. | 31:45 |
Thelmer Bethune | And them boys run up there and blah blah with them womens, you know. And they couldn't do their work because every time they was running. They keep the tobacco all right and then run up there and [indistinct 00:31:58] the women and run back down there and do their work. | 31:48 |
Thelmer Bethune | But I just sit there on the chair I wouldn't go. He said I'm gone give you a raise, two cent. He said you will get 18 cents an hour this time. And he say, in maybe another month, I will give you another raise. And he say if you be here long enough, he say I'm gone have you getting what them two fellas getting in the press. He say they getting 25 cents and hour. | 32:00 |
Thelmer Bethune | He say I like the way you work. He say one thing about you, you stays on your job. | 32:26 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 32:33 |
Thelmer Bethune | And if them other fellas need you, if one of them have to go to the restroom, you right there to help the other fella with the press. | 32:33 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 32:39 |
Thelmer Bethune | And one fella maybe had to go get a drink of water. I catch that thing, I would see how he would do it, you know? | 32:44 |
Thelmer Bethune | And I could throw that thing up there just like the other fella do it, you know? And the boss man say, I like the way you work. And I got 18 cents and them other fellas been there a year with the same 16 cents. | 32:45 |
Kisha Turner | Were there any unions? | 33:08 |
Thelmer Bethune | No, wasn't no such thing as a union back the. | 33:12 |
Kisha Turner | Oh, okay. | 33:12 |
Thelmer Bethune | No. I tell you, I was lucky. You know, one thing I feel, if you gone work, I take my time and I just stay on the job. Like some fellas, you know, they run over yonder with the girls up there putting stamps on tobacco. I would never go up there, I stay down. | 33:12 |
Kisha Turner | When you were a teenager in Winston, did you go out? Did you socialize? | 33:45 |
Thelmer Bethune | No. | 33:48 |
Kisha Turner | No, oh. Just to the movies? | 33:50 |
Thelmer Bethune | I go to the movie and come back home. | 33:51 |
Kisha Turner | Mm-hmm. | 33:51 |
Thelmer Bethune | I didn't drink and— | 33:57 |
Kisha Turner | All right, I'm going to stop, thanks. | 34:06 |
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