Dorothy Hayes interview recording, 1993 June 17
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Rhonda Mawhood | Have you always lived in Charlotte? | 0:01 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, always. Was born in Charlotte and I am still here. | 0:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And were your parents from Charlotte also? | 0:11 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes. My mother and father were from out in the country, from county Charlotte. And of course my father died when I was three years old so I didn't know him but so long. And of course I had a brother and a sister, and that's all. My mother, and my brother, and my sister made it my family. | 0:14 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Do you know why your parents moved to Charlotte? | 0:38 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well now, they were living in Charlotte when my mother got married, you see. My mother's — My mother, singly — My mother and her mother were living together and they had — Her mother had two other children and — my mother's sister and my mother's brother. And they were all living in the same house that I'm renting right now. And her mother died. She took — My mother took care of her mother until she passed, and she was the oldest one. | 0:42 |
Dorothy Hayes | And she took care of her until she passed. And then she got married after her mother passed. And of course she — my mother whose name was Addy, she was Addie Davis, and she married Will Weddington, and who's my father, and she had three children. And my brother was Willie Lee Weddington, and my sister was Josephine Weddington. And then Dorothy Weddington, the three of us. I was the youngest of the three. | 1:12 |
Dorothy Hayes | And of course, my mother was a hardworking lady. She did not have much education, and she wanted her children to have an education. Most mothers want their children to have a better life than they had. And she worked in service. And of course, in service, you would go in — She was a very good cook. And she would go in, in the mornings, and usually when she would leave home, especially during the winter, sometimes it would be dark and she would leave to go to work because she had to go and cook for these White people, get their children off to school. But she would always see that our food was prepared before she left home. And she had to cook breakfast, dinner, and supper. It wasn't lunch, it was dinner and supper. And when she would come home it would be dark. | 1:47 |
Dorothy Hayes | And we did not have a car or anything of that sort. You had the street cars at that time. And of course, most times — And the street car track was a long ways from our house, which means she had a long way to walk. But she did, she worked hard, and she was able to — All of us finished high school, we finished Second Ward. And my brother got a job working at the post office. My sister went to nurse — took nurse training in Durham at Lincoln Memorial Hospital at the time. And she worked at — she took — went to nurse training there. And I came out and I went to Livingstone College. I was the first one of the three children to go to college. And of course all of us, thanks to my mother and God — I'll say God and my mother because he gave her the will and the strength to do what she did, which I don't know how she did it. All of us got pretty decent jobs. | 2:50 |
Dorothy Hayes | As I said, my brother went — And he came out, he was working at the post office. And my sister finished nurse training and she worked in — she went to New York and worked in a hospital there. And I was lucky enough to get a job working in — at my first job teaching was in Turo, South Carolina. Then I was lucky to get a job here in Charlotte at Plato Price. And of course, that school is closed now. And from Plato Price I went to Second Ward, which is closed also now. And I left Second Ward, and I went to Coulwood Junior High School. That's when they integrated — they had integrated. They integrated the schools at that time. And I worked there until I retired in 1983. I retired. | 4:00 |
Dorothy Hayes | So — Well, I got married, of course, before that time. I got married in '47 but I mean — Yeah, it was '47. And seemingly God has blessed us all. My mother died in '71 and of course my brother died in '73 and my sister died in '78. All of my family, I would say died at that time. My mother, my brother and my sister. And of course God has left me here for something. I don't know what, but I'm trying to make it. | 4:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | And we were all Baptists. We went to Ebenezer Baptist Church. That's the church that burned. In fact, it has burned twice. The first time we were on 1st Street. It burned one night. I was adult — an adult then because I was married. And the next time it burned was about two years ago. We don't know what caused it. The firemen said that our pastor had too many cords running in his room back there. He had a refrigerator, television, and a lot of things back there. But anyway, it burned. He was out of town. And now we are in the process of trying to build, but we are having service at a funeral home, Grier's funeral home, which is very depressive. You know? You try to think about — try not to think that it's a funeral home when you go to church on Sunday morning, but it's hard not to know it's a funeral home. | 5:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | And we're over there, and of course we are working — We have started building. And we thought we had something going for us. And the man that we had got to do the work for us was doing a beautiful job, we thought. And he said — and now we were — You got money from the insurance and that's what we were paying him with. And when we got the last payment from the insurance, he said, "Well, you owe me so much so you can go ahead and pay me." And the man paid him and we haven't seen him since. He left us in the cold. And our beautiful church is just standing there. And we don't have any money to complete it or anything. So I don't know what we're going to do. We have to do something but we don't know yet what we're going to do. But it's depressing. It's really depressing. But you think that you think you're going to have something and you end up with nothing, so — | 6:42 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, yeah. I didn't tell you about when I was coming along as a child. When we got — When we'd been in elementary school we became 11 and 12 years old, we worked out in service. We would go — my sister and I would go and work in people homes, and if they had children we would babysit, you would call it. That's what they call it now. But we called it playing with the kids because we were about the same age as they were. And we would go out and work and whatever we made, we would give it to my mother to help supplement so she could buy groceries and whatnot because she had — The home that we lived in, they owned. My father bought the home where we lived. So she didn't have to pay rent or anything like that. Main thing she had to do was to get groceries and pay tax and of course, our clothing. | 7:49 |
Dorothy Hayes | But at one time, she works for the Efirds, who had a department store down there, downtown. | 8:53 |
Rhonda Mawhood | The Efirds? | 8:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes. And the Efirds had three children — oh no, they had four. They had two girls and two boys. And they would give mama clothes for us, and my mother could sew, and if they were too large, she could take them up. So we never had to worry about how we looked or having enough food because we always did. And I remember there was a place down on Forest where Jones dry cleaners is now, there used to be a market down there, fresh market. And I never shall forget on weekends, my mother, my brother, my sister, and I would go down there, and my brother had a little red wagon and we would push that wagon down there, and we would go and they would just load us up with vegetables and fruit and things of that sort. And she would have enough to do up the whole week. | 8:59 |
Dorothy Hayes | And it was just something to think about. I said if my mother was living now with the salaries and — that people are getting, we'd be rich. We would because she knew how to save money and how to use it. And now, I don't know, it's just something. But at least she lived long enough for me to work and try to help her out before she passed. She lived long enough for that. In fact, all of us did. But I was here and my brother, of course — boys do what they can, but boys are not like girls. And my sister was in New York so she would send down, but since I was living here, I felt it was my duty to go out every day and see about her. | 10:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | And I certainly miss — I miss all three of them because all of them are gone. Sometimes you get depressed because you feel like you don't have a family. And my husband doesn't like to hear me say that because he said, "I'm here. What do you think I am?" I say, "Well, I know but you know you think about your mother, and your brothers, and your sisters when you have them." But it's nice. So he's nice. He'll vacuum for me, and if I don't feel like washing some days — in fact, I might feel like it, but if I'm busy, he will put the clothes in the machine and see that they're washing them. He'll take them out and hang them up on the line. And of course, during the winter, we put them in the dryer. But he's a very big help. | 10:55 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Where did you meet your husband, Mrs. Hays? | 11:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, I met him through his sister and — because he was not from Charlotte. He's from Allendale, South Carolina. And his name is Walter. And I met him — I knew his sister. I had met her through her — his — her nephew. And I met him and she invited me out to her house for dinner and we met each other and we became friends, and we liked each other. So we eventually got married. | 11:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you say "eventually," how long did you know each other before you married? | 12:25 |
Dorothy Hayes | We didn't know each other too long because he declares it was six weeks, but I don't believe it was that short a time. I don't remember just how long it was, but it wasn't a year I know. It was less than a year. But we've been married now ever since, as I said, '47. And I think that's a long time to stay married to someone. But some people stay married 50 years until they die. And it seemed like that's what we are going to do. Yeah, he's a very nice person. | 12:29 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were growing up, Mrs. Hays, were there other family members around in the Charlotte area besides your mother and your siblings? | 13:05 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, I had an aunt who lived with her in the same house that we lived in, my mother's sister. And she had gone to Livingstone College also, but she did not — she went in high school, I think that's what it was then. And she took some type of nursing. She worked for — oh what was this? Doctor Rankins, I believe was his name. And he had an office where the library is now, downtown. And she was a — which was a — it was a good thing because she was a receptionist, and didn't usually find Black receptionist in a White doctor's office, but she was. And she was — I think I have her picture in here. She was — yes, here's her picture. Her name was Eliza Davis and — | 13:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | She's beautiful. | 14:09 |
Dorothy Hayes | And she was a [indistinct 00:14:16], I thought. And of course, here's a picture of my brother, Willie Lee Weddington. And here's my — of course, here's my mother. Her name was Addie. And that's my sister, Josephine. And I had an uncle also, who lived out there, my mother's brother. And this is — his name was — his name was Willie — Willie Davis. He was a veteran of World War I. And that was my family. Of course, I had some first cousins. Now those three fellas that you see there, those were my first cousins. And that was James Weddington, Edward Weddington, and Walter Weddington. Of course, all of them are dead now. | 14:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did your aunt help take care of the three of you? | 15:11 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, she did. She was very good. She helped me go to college also. You can just lay that down there. And she helped when I was in college, she and my mother. She was very, very good to me. And she was so good sometimes when I was — do things and have to get a whipping, I used to think she was my mother because she didn't have a whip, but my mother did. And so they'd say, "Oh no, she's not your mother." [laughs] | 15:14 |
Dorothy Hayes | And someone is whipping — I don't know if you — kids don't get whippings now, but when I was getting along, my mother was a mother and the father. And she did all she could to keep us straight, which she did a very good job of doing, I think. But she kept us straight. And my aunt and my uncle, he didn't do too much. But sometimes he would help my mother out. But he had his own family. But my aunt never married, our mother's sister, never did get married. But my mother's brother did. He had a family. He just had a wife. He didn't have any children. | 15:38 |
Speaker 3 | Do you know why your aunt didn't marry? Did you ever ask her? | 16:21 |
Dorothy Hayes | I don't know why she never got married. I know — I don't — I didn't ask her why she never married. I didn't know whether that would make her feel bad or not, so I never asked her. Because she was a pretty lady, and she was a very nice person. And she worked at Dr. Rankin's office until he died. No, until she died. Because I think she died first. She had a — I thought it was a minor thing that she had, but she died from it at the hospital over there. Yeah. | 16:30 |
Speaker 3 | When you were growing up, who was it that you looked up to? | 17:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | I looked up to my mother. I really did. And I always said when I was growing up that I wanted — I wanted my mother to outlive me when I was a kid. I really always said that. But that's when I was a kid. When I got older I said, well I guess the younger people are supposed to live and the older people, they have to go out and [indistinct 00:17:33]. But I always admired my mother. I always did. Because I don't know, even though I was a youngster, I still — I looked up to her because I thought she was such a great woman. | 17:08 |
Dorothy Hayes | She was a person that carried herself well, and I didn't think about she was not an educated person or anything like — of that sort at that time because she was a respectful lady and people respected her. Everyone in the community respected my mother because of the way she carried herself. And I never shall forget. We used to walk to church on Sundays, and our church was on 1st Street. And on McDowell Street, people used to hang on the corners, you know. | 17:50 |
Dorothy Hayes | Men would be out there, and sometimes they would use a profanity and whatnot. And I remember one time, we were going through there and they were out there and my mother stopped and she said, "I have my children here, and I'm going through here, and I don't want hear any more of that cursing when I go through here." And if they were cursing, if they saw my mother and us coming, they would stop. They would stop because she — you know, nowaday, can't do that. Someone might kill you. But she had that much respect, and they didn't even know her. But they respected her that much, and her children because she said she didn't want to hear, and she didn't want her children to get that kind of talk. So she was just a wonderful person. | 18:25 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you went to Ebenezer Baptist Church? | 19:22 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah. | 19:24 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you — can you tell me about going to church? | 19:25 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes. Because when we were coming up, every time the church door opened, we were there. And during that time when we were little kids and my mother had work, she worked on Sunday until after dinner. After — Sunday, they had breakfast and then they would have dinner midday. And she would have to work until she had served dinner. And there was a lady in our community, a Mrs. Selena Williams. And Mrs. Williams would take us to church with her. And she taught Sunday school. And we would go to Sunday school with Mrs. Williams. We would walk to church. | 19:29 |
Dorothy Hayes | But when my mother would get off — during that time, they would have services in the morning and night. And when she would get home, well we would have dinner, and we would go to church that night too. Because she would take us to church that night. And we were coming along, we went to Bible school during the summertime, and on Sundays we would go back to BTU. We had Baptist Training Union at that time at our church. So we would go back to that, and everything that the church had, we would go to. But when we got older, we had to work. And so we were not able to participate in some of those activities because all of us had to work. Because my brother worked too. Now what my mother would do with him, she would let him go caddy because he was kind of weakly. | 20:13 |
Dorothy Hayes | He was never too well. And the doctors had told my mother that he would never live and get 21. But he did because when he died he was in his fifties. But he was always — she said kind of sickly. But we all took care. We took care of each other. That's what we did. We'd all look after each other. And I remember when my mother — there was a grocery store out on Morehead. I think it was Morrison's. I think that was the name of that grocery store, but it's been so long. And my mother used to send him to the grocery store. And the two of us would go with him. My sister and I would go with him because he was the oldest and he would carry the money and whatnot. And we would go with him and walk with him to the store and walk with him back home. | 21:11 |
Dorothy Hayes | I guess mama wanted him to feel that he was doing something. And I never shall forget. One day we were coming back from the grocery store, it was during the summertime, and he fell out down on Baldwin Avenue in front of a lady's name Mrs. Mary Hall. | 22:05 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Mary Hall? | 22:26 |
Dorothy Hayes | Mary Hall's grandmother. She lived with her grandmother, Ms. Hall did. Mary lived with her grandmother. And we got him home. And during that time, if you got sick, when the doctors would come out, the doctors would come to your house and they would quarantine your house if you had something that was contagious. And he had — what is this disease when you drink bad water from a well? | 22:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | It could be malaria. | 22:56 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, it wasn't malaria. | 22:57 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Dysentery? | 22:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, it was — it makes your heart bad they said. Oh, I can't think of the name of that. But anyway, he had — we had been out to Weeping Willow, which was my mother's home church when she was coming up as a child. And they would have these special Sundays once a year. And when you would go out there, they would set up these tables, and you would take food and everybody else would take food, and they would set up these tables and you would eat out on the grounds during the services after the morning service. And they had a well out there. And my brother — we would all drink water from this well. But he got — the doctor said it was the water that had made him sick. | 23:00 |
Dorothy Hayes | But I can't think of the name of that disease that he had. But they quarantined the house, they quarantined all of us and gave us all shots. But he got all right, though. But they said that that was a thing that kept him not — from being as strong as he should have been. But he never knew that he was not strong as he should have been because no one let on that he wasn't because we didn't want him to think that he was less than a big boy at that time. | 23:48 |
Dorothy Hayes | But you know how the young boys all had — they live in a house was nothing but women. And so we didn't want him to feel funny about being there, you know? But he did all right. He finally got married, had a nice wife, but she died too. She died after he did. And they seemed to have done well for themselves. And I was proud of him because he did so well. And I loved his wife, too. | 24:15 |
Dorothy Hayes | So I don't know. I guess that's why sometimes I feel depressed because we were a very close-knit family. We were very close. And he was the only one here. And we were at each other's house all the time. If he wasn't at my house, I was at his house. And whenever we got ready to do something, we'd always do it together. He and his wife, my husband and me, we would go to dances together. We'd go to cookouts together, we'd go to parties together. We were just together, which made — which makes it even worse when you're so close and then something like passes like that. He died suddenly also on his job. He — as I said, was working at the post office. And they said that morning he had gone to work, and he just fell out. And they say when he fall out, when he hit the floor, he was dead. | 24:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How old was he when he died, Mrs. Hays? | 25:55 |
Dorothy Hayes | I think he was 53, between 52 and 53, something like that. And his heart gave out on him. Oh. He had very diptheria. | 25:56 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Diptheria? | 26:09 |
Dorothy Hayes | That's what it was. Diptheria. I think that's what they called it. And I think they said it came from drinking this bad water. And of course, from that time on, when we would go out, my mother would always carry water for us. So we didn't drink any more of that water. But he didn't want anyone to think that he was weak. And of course, looking at him, you wouldn't have thought he was weak because he never got fat. He was tall and slender and — because that's not bad because my husband is not fat either. | 26:09 |
Dorothy Hayes | He's beginning to get stouter though because he stopped smoking cigarettes, and when he stopped smoking cigarettes — and I was surprised because one day, I noticed him and he had his pants unfastened around the waist, and someone came, and he went to the door. But as he was going to door, he was fastening — I said, "What's wrong with you?" I said, "Your pants are getting too small?" He said, "Yeah, I've got to do something. My pants are getting too small around the waist." | 26:43 |
Dorothy Hayes | Then I looked, and I noticed he was getting a little larger, his legs were getting a little larger and all that. He said — I said, "Well, you need to get out and walk." Because I was trying to walk myself because I gained a lot of weight when I stopped smoking cigarettes. And he was small. He said, "I don't need to walk. I'm not trying to lose any weight." But now he and I both need to get out and lose some weight. That's what my doctor said was good for you to walk. | 27:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When did you start smoking cigarettes, Mrs. Hays? | 27:39 |
Dorothy Hayes | Boy, I started smoking cigarettes when I was in college. | 27:39 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Oh really? | 27:39 |
Dorothy Hayes | I think it was my junior year in college. | 27:49 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So 1940s. | 27:49 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah. And that was a long time. Because I started in '41, I believe. And now it has been about — I guess it's been about 10 years since I stopped. So that's a long time to smoke cigarettes. But what made me actually stop — now, my doctor had told me I should not smoke cigarettes when I started going so often because my mother died, it was a heart attack. My brother died with a heart attack. My sister died with heart problems. And he said it usually runs in the family. And he said smoking cigarettes was — I didn't seem to have any trouble at the time, but he said smoking cigarettes would not help the situation. And he told me to stop. But I believe cigarettes is — you get addicted just like people do to drugs. Because I said, "All right, I'm going to stop." | 27:49 |
Dorothy Hayes | And I would maybe stop for about a few days and start right back. And it was the hardest thing. But this girl, lady rather, who was a classmate of mine in elementary school and college — not college, but in high school, we finished elementary school together, and we finished Second Ward High together. She had been smoking also. She worked at the post office. She was a nurse out there. And one day, she was getting ready to go to work, and she brushed her teeth. And when she brushed her teeth, she brushed her tongue. And when she brushed her tongue, blood started coming out of her mouth. And she said — when she got to work, she told the doctor at the post office about it, and they looked and they told her to go see — go to the nose, ear, eye hospital and have them to give her an examination. | 28:51 |
Dorothy Hayes | And when she went, they took her a biopsy and they said it was malignant. She had cancer on the tongue. And she said they wanted to take her tongue out. But she said, "I told them I would rather die because I love to talk." Which she does. And she wouldn't let them take her tongue out. So they went in to — on the side to see if they could get this cancer off her tongue. And I don't know. Jeanette, another one of my classmates and I went out to see her. It was on 3rd Street where that hospital is. We went out to see her. And she had a hole in her throat somewhere. She had to put her hand over there to talk. And we tried to tell her not to talk because we just wanted her to know that we loved her and we wanted to see her. But you couldn't keep her — stop — you couldn't stop her from talking. | 30:03 |
Dorothy Hayes | And that next day, her daughter called me, and said she had awakened early that morning and blood was gushing out of her mouth. And they had to go back and operate on her some more, which they did, but they ruined her face, her neck. She doesn't look like the same person at all. But anyway, when I heard that she had gotten this — had this cancer, I stopped smoking that day. I took all of my cigarettes. I didn't ask anyone if they wanted them. I cut them up and put them in the garbage, that I used to buy them by the carton. And I have not smoked a cigarette since. I haven't had a desire for a cigarette or anything. And I started gaining weight after I stopped smoking. | 31:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What did your mother think when you started smoking, Mrs. Hays? | 31:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, I was in college during that time. You look at movies because we didn't have movies then. I mean we didn't have television. But you look at movies, all of the movie stars were smoking cigarettes. And that was just something you did. And I remember back doing the war, World War II, my mother used to buy me cigarettes. She didn't know they were bad for you at the time. And I didn't either at the time. Because I remember one time my mother bought me a package of cigarettes and I said, "Mama," I said, "I'm surprised that you'd buy me a packet of cigarettes." She said, "Well, I saw the line and I got in it." | 32:00 |
Dorothy Hayes | She just got them on the line — | 32:45 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Because they were rationed. | 32:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah, they were rationing everything. But after I got a little older, she didn't like for me to smoke, and I tried not to — I didn't smoke around her because she did not want me to smoke. For some reason, she thought it didn't look too hot. But when I was in school, see, she didn't see me smoking, but I was away. But when I got home, she did not want me to smoke. And I did smoke, but I didn't smoke around her. And it was not a habit then. But as I got older, it became more a habit. | 32:51 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So when you were growing up, you talked about your family and about how you were with your brother and sister. Were there other children in the neighborhood who you played with? | 33:26 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, there were. There was one family especially, they were the Hare families. They lived — well, close to us. And it was Mrs. Mamie Hare and her husband. They had 10 children, and they were all older, other than Louise. Louise was just one year older than I was. And the others, I don't know whether you heard of Oscar Hare or not. He lives in Cherry. Still lives in Cherry. And he's a member of this group, but he hadn't been coming to the meetings lately. | 33:35 |
Rhonda Mawhood | How does he spell his last name, Mrs. Hays? | 34:12 |
Dorothy Hayes | Hare. H-A-R-E. | 34:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. | 34:14 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oscar Hare. And he lives on Tar Street. Because he was older than we were in my — the children in my family. But Louise - there was Louise and Halsie, who was our brother. And of course, we used to be good friends. Because Louise lives in Maryland now. She got married and moved to Maryland. | 34:15 |
Dorothy Hayes | But all of the others — oh yeah, then there was Mary Francis Jennings. They lived out there for a while. And in fact, Blizelle Legette, he lived down on Tar Street? No, Blizelle lived on my street. Price Davis lived on Tar Street. He's a member about this group. | 34:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Mm-hmm. Yes, I know them. | 35:03 |
Dorothy Hayes | And Will Earl, of course, lived there. And up the street from us there was Robert Phillips. The Phillips were there. And Janelle Walker, who was a good friend of ours, and Frank Brown. Frank Brown is still living, but he lives way out of the country somewhere. He's something like a loner. He doesn't bother people too much. But he's married and has a family. And oh, let's see who else. There was the Andersons that lived on Main Street. | 35:04 |
Dorothy Hayes | Let's see. There were just a lot of them out there. But when we would go to school, we went to Second Ward. There was a creek where the Charlottetown Mall is now, there used to be a pastor down there, and there was a Thompson orphanage. And Will Earl's father worked for Thompson Orphanage. And down the low there, there was a — they used to have a bridge that we would have to cross to get on the other side from Cherry to Brooklyn. And we used to walk across that all the time. And at one time, it was kind of — you'd get on it, it would kind of swing. And the boys would get on there and swing it when the girls would come across and frighten everyone to death. | 35:46 |
Dorothy Hayes | But I don't know what happened to that. Eventually, when they Charlottetown, when they got this, the orphanage moved. And that chapel down there on — what's that 4th Street? 4th Street was a part of that orphanage. I think that's the only building that's left that was a part of that orphanage. But I have some good memories of those things, those days. Even though they were frightened — frightening, but they were some good memories because we used to have a lot of fun going to school. And I never shall forget when we got ready to go to school, everyone would meet and walk together, going to Brook — going to Second Ward that lived in Cherry that was going to high school at the time. We would all go to school together. When school was out, we'd all get together and walk back home. And each of them would go their separate way when he got to his home. | 36:40 |
Dorothy Hayes | But we had a lot of fun. Everybody was so nice to each other. And I feel sorry for the kids today because they don't have that. And when one person would have a party, everybody was invited to that party. And your aunt — now my aunt loved to cook. Because you were look over that picture. Tell at that time. She was the — I call her stout at the time. And all of us were small at the time. And my mother would make some of the best cakes, and my aunt could make good punch, and she could make good hamburgers and stuff like that. And I don't know, at that time people have grills now, we didn't have any grills. They would make a — dig a hole, make a fire in it, and you would have a coat hanger, and you put hot dogs and marshmallows on the end of it, and you're talking about something good. Boy, it would be good. | 37:40 |
Dorothy Hayes | And then my mother would make that ice cream, and my aunt — my mother would make cakes too. And my aunt did, too. And everyone would just have a good time out in our little backyard. And at that time, I thought we had the biggest backyard. But it's small compared to what you have now. But to me, it was a big backyard. And everyone would come, and my aunt always would have a music box for us. And we would play music and oh, just have a good time. | 38:43 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Like a record? To play record? | 39:15 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah. Played records. | 39:17 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kind of music did you listen to at the parties? Do you remember? | 39:18 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, at that time, anything fast. Because I loved to dance, but I didn't like slow music, and I wanted something that was pretty fast. But as you got older, you started liking slow music. But when I was going along, I did not like slow music. And we would play music and dance, just have a good time. And some kids would have pianos at their home. And then there was one fellow, I'm trying to think of his name, who could play a piano. And we would go to — and he would play the piano and we would dance. Oh yeah, Maddie — it was Maddie Pops. | 39:21 |
Dorothy Hayes | She was coming up at that time. Rosina Adams. They lived back over that way. Rosina lived on Baldwin Avenue and Maddie lived on [indistinct 00:40:18] Street, I believe they call that. That was street down below our house. And she lived with her aunt. She had a brother. And we always called him June Fox. I never knew his name until he got grown. And he was Walter Holmes. He's still living, but Maddie's dead. She married and went to Washington. She died up there. But we would have a lot of fun. | 40:05 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did the children from the different neighborhoods come to these parties together? | 40:48 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, if you invited them. Now, I remember when we were in — when we got — we were large children then. And at Ebenezer, I never shall forget, they had a junior choir. And as I said, everything revolved around the church. And there was a Mr. Hazel Miller who was in charge of the music at Ebenezer. And I wanted to be a member of that choir. And Mr. Miller said you couldn't become a member until you were — I believe he said 11 years old. And you had to be baptized no matter if you did come to church, you had to get baptized. | 40:52 |
Dorothy Hayes | So my brother and sister were already members of the choir, the junior choir. And I wanted to be a member. So I went up and got baptized so I could become a member of that choir. And my birthday is December the 8th, and my sister's birthday was December the 29th. So when we would be out of school for the holiday, my mother and my aunt would always have us a birthday party. And they would invite our friends, the choir members, and of course the church was in Brooklyn. So the children that belonged — most of the kids that went to that church were from Brooklyn. And I think we were the only ones from Cherry that went over there other than Mrs. Williams, who took us to church. | 41:38 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, we had some more people because Geraldine Poe, who lived with her grandmother, Ms. Williams and Rudolph Tarr, she was a Tarr. They were Tarrs since then, you may have heard of Rudolph because she was a policeman for a long time. They lived with their grandmother, Mrs. Williams, for a while. And we would all, as I said, go to church together. But when they would have these birthday parties, we would invite the children to come out to our party, and they would come. And they were from Brooklyn. And — because when we went to high school, we made friends at — see, Second Ward was the only school at that time. Most Black kids had to go to Second Ward. So we met kids from Belleville and Greenville and different sections of town. And we would invite some of them out to our house to parties, too. So we just had a conglomeration of friends. | 42:27 |
Dorothy Hayes | And that's another thing, most of them have left Charlotte, are dead or — it's just something. I try not to think about it, though. But there are a few of us still living. Now have one — I have one friend who was a classmate. I met him in high school. And he lives in Detroit, Michigan. And he has a family here. And every summer when he comes home, he always come over to see me. He looks me up. And he was a good football player when we were going to Second Ward, very good football player. And most of the football fellas used to come out to our house. | 43:32 |
Dorothy Hayes | And I never shall forget, there was a piece called Cherry and we lived in Cherry. And so they would play that piece and we would just dance away. Yeah, have a good time. | 44:14 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you play with any White children when you were growing up, Ms. Hays? | 44:29 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, other than when I was working for them. And when I worked, the children that we would babysit were White. They was probably friends of the people that my mother worked for, and we would go over, and they would want us to babysit for them, and we would babysit for their children. But other than that, that's the only ones we came in contact with. | 44:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And what neighborhood was it that they lived in? | 45:00 |
Dorothy Hayes | In Myers Palm. | 45:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Myers Palm. | 45:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | Over in Myers Palm. And you see, we were right off of from Myers Palm, Cherry was right off of Myers Palm. In fact, it has been said that Mr. Myers had the place for all of his service, but I don't know about that because I don't think everybody — I know everyone in Cherry did not work in service. Because we had a Mr. Phillips. And Mr. Phillips was a barber, and he worked downtown at a barber shop. | 45:03 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did he have — was it a White barber shop or a Black barber shop? | 45:36 |
Dorothy Hayes | I'm not sure whether that was a White barber shop or not. But he passed. But he still has three children — four children. Robert, the youngest one who came along with us, and he was not the youngest because Howard was the youngest. She lives in Gastonia. And Robert is in Maryland, I think. And Mildred and Edward are still here in Charlotte, but they were older than we were. But I don't know whether that was a White barber shop or Black barber shop, but I know it was downtown somewhere. | 45:37 |
Dorothy Hayes | So he was not working in service. But most of the people that I knew worked in service. Some of the men were yarding and by my uncle, when he came home from the service, he was — I don't know what you'd call it, but we called it the butler. During that time, people would have butlers and they would chauffeur for them, the people that they worked for and — | 46:16 |
Dorothy Hayes | — Other than when we were working for them. | 0:01 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did the people you knew in Cherry, the grownups talk about their work when children were around? | 0:05 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh no. That was one thing. When adults got together to talk, the children went out. They were glad because they could go out and play because you did not sit around listening to what they talked about. They did not talk about adult things in front of children. You would have to go somewhere else while they were talking. | 0:12 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And how were you taught to address adults Mrs Hayes? | 0:39 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, Mr. and Mrs. And yes ma'am, and no ma'am. That was the way I was brought up. Only when I became an adult that I started saying— And then it was pretty hard for me then to say no, yes to someone older than me. In fact, most times I will still say yes ma'am, or no ma'am to people that are older than me, which there's not many of them now, but when they were older, I never said yes and no to adults. It was disrespectful to do something like that, but of course, it's different now. | 0:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What year was it that you were born, Mrs. Hayes? | 1:29 |
Dorothy Hayes | I was born in 1922. | 1:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | 1922. | 1:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | December 8th, 1922. | 1:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And your sister was born? | 1:39 |
Dorothy Hayes | She was a year older than that. | 1:43 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. | 1:44 |
Dorothy Hayes | It was '21 and my brother, he was five years older than me, but they both came out of school in '39. I mean out of high school in '39, and I came out in '38. | 1:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So it took your brother a little longer? | 2:05 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah, because he was very sickly as he was coming along. He was sick a lot. | 2:08 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When you were growing up in Charlotte and Mrs Hayes during this time, the segregated time, what were the signs of segregation to you? | 2:18 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh boy. They were everywhere. When you would go down to the bus station or the train station, they had what you would call a Colored section and a White section. And you sat in the Colored section. And of course, they had what they called Colored restrooms and the White restrooms. And they would have water fountains and they'd have Colored and White. | 2:27 |
Dorothy Hayes | And the Colored, that was the Black people, they drank out of the Colored one probably. And the Whites of course, would drink out of the Whites. And there was a store downtown on the square Kresses. And to my knowledge, Kresses actually was the first one that I saw a restroom downtown that you could go in. Now, I don't know if the other stores had them. If they did, I didn't know about them. But Kresses was, we call it a 10 cent store at that time because back then, you could get things for 10 cents and it was on the square where, that hotel spaces, that's spaces out there now. | 3:00 |
Dorothy Hayes | And you could go in Kresses and you could go down and get some Colored water, but it was the same water but anyway, it was Colored water. And if you had to go to the restroom, you would go to the Colored restroom. And to my knowledge, now, there might have been other stores, but that was the first store that had a place where Colored people could get water or go to the restroom downtown, to my knowledge. | 3:40 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And do you remember your mother or other people explaining this to you? This system? | 4:16 |
Dorothy Hayes | No. It was just taking the— I don't know that we never thought about it. In a way, I never thought about it because when you're born into something like that and no one ever talks about it, I never thought about it as a child. But as you get older, then you start thinking about it. Because I remember when I was in school, we never got new books. And the desk that we had in our schools, were always desks that had been used because you could see where someone had carved their names or something. And everything we had was secondhand. And of course of, they never said, don't do this and don't do that. But somewhere, some way, you knew that from the way people act, how things were, in, a way you just accepted it at that time. | 4:24 |
Dorothy Hayes | But as you became older, you might not have liked it, but there wasn't anything you could do about it at that time. And I never shall forget when these students from Johnson C. Smith, I think an anti—college came to integrate the Woolworths downtown. I was grown then. And of course, I decided well, I'd do my part, I wouldn't buy anything downtown at the stores. And so I didn't buy anything down there for a while. Which means you went without because we didn't have any stores that was selling anything. But I just decided that would be my part. I just wouldn't buy anything down there. | 5:50 |
Dorothy Hayes | But they made you more aware of your rights as an individual. And Dr. Martin Luther King, when he had his crusade going, and my mother was always a member of the NAACP, but she never talked about what they were doing about things like that. | 6:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did she used to go to meetings when you were a child? | 7:16 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, she went to meetings. She went to meetings. And sometimes they would go to different places. Greensboro somewhere, she went with them. But she never talked about a lot of things that were happening. I guess she figured if she talked about it with us, that we would probably become dissatisfied with what we had. But she felt like there was nothing we could do about it. | 7:19 |
Dorothy Hayes | But those people that came down, those college kids and did what they did, well then it made everybody more— And what Dr. Luther King was doing, it made you more aware of things. Because right in Charlotte, when you got on the bus, or when you got on the street car, you went straight to the back and you sat in the back. Of course, I don't ever remember anyone saying move back or anything, but you just automatically went to the back. And after the street car, we had buses, you automatically went to the back. But after Ms. Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King did what they did, then it made you— Of course I was grown then. You just stopped sitting in the back and no one said anything to you about it. | 7:46 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Did you join the NAACP yourself? | 8:40 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes, I joined the NAACP. | 8:42 |
Rhonda Mawhood | When was that then? | 8:44 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, I joined the NAACP as soon as I became 21 years old because my mother was a member and Kelly Alexander was the president. And at that time they were very good friends. When you became 21, you registered to vote. And I never shall forget. He came out, got and took me to register so I can vote. And then I joined the NAACP. And I don't know, I haven't paid my dues lately, but I always supported and when they have their legal defense fund event, I always go. Each year, support it. But I think it's a good organization to belong to. And I was glad when they got Chavis as the new president. | 8:46 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Were you really? | 9:40 |
Dorothy Hayes | I really was because I think he deserves it. He has been through the mill and I think he deserves something worthwhile happening to him. And he seems like he has a good head on his shoulder and he wants to try to get people together because I don't think you need to be separated now. I think we should try to live together. Everyone. No matter what color you are, I think you should try to live together in harmony. | 9:41 |
Dorothy Hayes | I don't have to marry your husband, you don't have to marry mine. I mean your brother, you don't have to marry mine. But still, you can be decent to each other as human beings. Now, that's the way I feel. Now, when I started working in an integrated situation, now, that was the first time I had come into contact with a lot of White people. | 10:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And would that be in the 1960s? 1970? | 10:32 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yes. | 10:35 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Okay. | 10:35 |
Dorothy Hayes | When I went to Coulwood Junior High. | 10:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Yes ma'am. | 10:41 |
Dorothy Hayes | And when I first went out there, they had a ride every week, the children fighting against each other. And one thing I noticed there were about, I think there were four of us that went in there at the same time, four Black teachers. | 10:42 |
Dorothy Hayes | And the children were very respectful of the teachers, but yet the children would fight. Not everyone, but you know how some would fight. And some people would ask me, "Oh, how do the children treat you as an individual?" And they were very respectful and very nice. And their parents were too because kids would ask you questions and they found out that I didn't have any children. Every birthday, every holiday, at lunchtime, they wanted to have a party and their parents would cook. Make cookies, cakes, bake cakes and whatnot, and send them to me. And I'd get cards from all of them. And they were so nice. | 11:01 |
Dorothy Hayes | And in '75 I went to the hospital for an operation and they sent me cards, gifts. They were just nice to me. And at the end of the school year, they would send me cards and thank me for their child being in my room because they had learned so much. I don't know, they just made me feel good. And I know I had one principal, and he said he had never seen children treat a teacher like that before. And I said, "Well, I always just try to be fair with them and try to teach them." And of course, I would have parents that would call me and call the office also at the beginning of the year, if they had had one child in my room and they had another one that was coming up and they would tell the nurse— I mean not the nurse, but the office manager, that they wanted them to fix their schedule so they would be in my class and she would tell me about it. And that would make me feel good because I felt like I was doing a pretty good job. | 11:56 |
Dorothy Hayes | And I always felt that when it got to the place where I felt like I didn't enjoy teaching anymore, I was going to give it up. And when I got to that place, I gave it up and that was at '83. | 13:08 |
Rhonda Mawhood | '83. | 13:22 |
Dorothy Hayes | And my principal said to me at the time, he said, "Ms. Hayes, you can't quit." Said, "You're not old enough yet." Which I wasn't. But I told him, "I'll tell you what made me decide to give it up. One thing, my sister had died on the job." I said, "My brother died on the job." And some of the children that you were getting during that time, they did not want to study. And some of the parents you were having then, they thought that you should give them grades for nothing. And I couldn't see myself doing it. So I said, "Well, the best thing for me to do." And I was not enjoying it anymore. So I thought the best thing for me to do was to get it up. And that's what I did. | 13:24 |
Dorothy Hayes | But when I was working, I enjoyed every minute of it because the kids were nice. As I said, and the parents were nice. And I remember when I was at Plato Price, I had a little principal, his name was James Clark, and he was supposed to be hell on wheels, you know how some principles are. That was when schools were segregated. And he would come in your classroom, slip in there sometime. He was small and sometimes, you'd have some pretty big kids. And I never paid any attention. We would stand at the door when the children would change classes and you look up, he was in there, had a piece of paper writing. | 14:19 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, it never frightened me. I would go on with what I was doing and he always gave me very good evaluations. And I had at that time, if the children didn't do their work, you could pow them. There was nothing wrong with powing at the time. And I had a class and I could detect that they were not up to par as some of my other children were. So I wouldn't pow them. I would just try to work with them without powing them. And one day, one of the kids said to me, said, "Ms. Hayes," said, "So you like us?" I said, "Sure, I love you." He said, "Well, you don't pow us, but we don't bring our work." | 14:58 |
Dorothy Hayes | Children can discern things about you. And I said, "Oh, well if you don't come in here, with your work tomorrow, you're going to get it." But I didn't want to pow them because actually, they didn't have as much going for them as some kids did. And oh, sometimes they would come in there and they would have it, but they'd pretend they didn't have the assignments. And I would have to pow them about once or twice and that would just do them all good. And I never shall forget, Mr. Clark said to me one time, said "Ms Hayes, I don't know what you're doing to these kids," said, "But they seem to just love you." And they had one teacher, and the teacher tried to pow them, and they threw the teacher out the classroom. | 15:49 |
Dorothy Hayes | It was a man teacher, they threw him out of the classroom. But I seemed to have had good rapport with those kids. They were good to me. I like that. That was in the all Black school. And even after I left that school, they sent me to Second Ward. I didn't want to go, but they just send you whether you wanted to go or not. Some of them would call me and say, "Why did you leave us whatnot?" And I said, "Well, I didn't move myself. The superintendent moved me." And I was at Second Ward only two years though. And then they got rid of the junior high. I was teaching Earth Science at the time. And they got rid of, that was in junior high, I guess you would call it now because it was the eighth grade. They got rid of the eighth grade and only had high school for about two more years I believe, after that. And they closed the whole school. | 16:46 |
Dorothy Hayes | And they sent me to Coulwood. And I never heard of Coulwood before. Never heard of it. I received just a letter from the superintendent, I believe it was. And then the principal called me from Coulwood. He was Powell, Mr. Powell, and wanted me to come out and talk with me. Well, I didn't know where at school was. So my husband had worked for Weather's Furniture store out on South Boulevard. So he knows Charlotte better than me even though he's not from Charlotte. So he took me out one day to show me where the school was. So the day I had my interview, I drove myself out there and I talked with him. And when my principal, the second ward was Ed Wardell. Mr. Wardell. And Mr. Wardell said the next day when we met at school, he said, "Ms. Hayes is going to Coulwood." And we had some teachers hadn't been placed. He said, "She was one of the first ones to be placed." | 17:46 |
Dorothy Hayes | I didn't want to go because I didn't know a thing about how it was going to be working on a White school because I had not had any contact with the White teachers or anything like that. And I didn't know how it was going to be. But I went on out there and I made up my mind I was going to do my work, which I did and got along fine. I liked the teachers and they seemed to like me because when my mother died, oh, they brought food, cakes, all kinds of food to me. In fact, I had so much food I had to give it away because we couldn't use it all. And the same thing happened when my brother died and my sister died. They would send cards and everything. They were just very nice. And when I had my operation in '75, some of them came to see me and as I said, the children and the parents sent cards and send gifts and whatnot. So I got along all right with them and I enjoyed it. | 19:04 |
Dorothy Hayes | But as I said, when I got to the place where I didn't enjoy it anymore, I gave it up. And it wasn't because of the principal or teachers, it was because some of the students got lazy and their parents did not encourage them to get smarter and do their work because each year, I required them to have a science project and they knew that from the first day they came into my class because I told them what I would expect on that first day. And well, it got to the place where the parents were beginning to do the work for the children and wanted me to give the children the grade. And I knew the child didn't do the work because they would have to bring their whatever project they had and explain it to the class and they couldn't even explain it to the class, what they had done or what it was for, anything. And it was something some parent had done and I didn't like that. | 20:10 |
Dorothy Hayes | So I had to give some Fs, because that was three fourths of the lesson, of their grade I would say. Because then you had your test and your daily activities and whatnot. So it wasn't three fourths, but it was a great part of it, I'd say. And I just had to give it up. But I enjoyed. But I've enjoyed every second of retirement. | 21:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'm sure. | 21:38 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah, I've enjoyed every second of it. | 21:40 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I wanted to ask you about Living Stone College. When you were there, Mrs. Hayes. Did you go straight on from high school or did you work first? | 21:43 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, I went straight from high school. And I'll tell you, my aunt was a member of a Pleasant Hill. Not Pleasant Hill. Maya's Chapel. Maya's Chapel AME Zion Church. And of course, when I came out of school, I didn't think I'd be going to college or anything of that sort. But they wanted me to go to college and she talked to Reverend Blackwell, I believe, he was a presiding elder or something of the AME Zion church. And they got me on, at that time, the NYA. | 21:50 |
Rhonda Mawhood | National Youth Administration? | 22:29 |
Dorothy Hayes | Uh—huh. And at that time they would pay so much for you go to school and you would have to work. And I wait tables at the school. That was my job. And of course, when I became a junior, all I had to do was clean up the living rooms, things like that. And that helped me go to school. NYA, because if it hadn't been for the NYA, I might never have gotten there because they did what they could. But they didn't have the money to send me to college. My mother and my aunt didn't. But they bought my clothes and they were good about coming, bringing me food on weekends because I didn't eat a lot that time, I didn't know. I was picky about what I ate. | 22:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | And you can imagine how it is on a college during a depression, the food that they would have. But my mother and my aunt would bake cakes and my uncle had a car. He always had a car. My uncle, my mama's brother. And they would all come up see me and bring me cakes and hams and baked chicken and stuff of that sort. And they saw that I didn't go hungry. And that was how I was able to go to school. I worked. I worked the four years I was in college. | 23:27 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And what did you study there, Mrs. Hayes? | 24:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | I studied science. I majored in biology and my minor was chemistry. Biology and chemistry. And I came out, as I said, in '42. It was a all Black school. The only thing about that school was it was a church school and I was a Baptist so it was pretty hard. But I made it. I was a Baptist. And even. | 24:04 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'm sorry, what church was it? | 24:48 |
Dorothy Hayes | It's a church school. It's an AME Zion church school. | 24:49 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Thank you. | 24:54 |
Dorothy Hayes | And even now, I get it sometimes. I joined the [indistinct 00:25:01] chapter at Livingston College. And do you know, some of them have the audacity to say that— I don't know whether they call themselves looking down on the Baptist or what, I don't know, because to me, a protestant church is a protestant church. It doesn't matter whether is an AME Zion in [indistinct 00:25:30] or what it is. But we have a minister here, you may have heard of him, Reverend Jinwright from Salem Baptist Church. Well he attended Livingston College and he has a large church out on Salem Road. | 24:56 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well every year, founders stay here in Charlotte and we have a speaker. So someone brought up Reverend Jinwright because he is a noted person for our founders. They speak and having our founder at his church. And do you know they didn't want to do it because he's a Baptist? And they didn't. Said they didn't think that would be right to have it a Baptist church or have a Baptist speaker because it's AME Zion school. And I told them, I said, "Well I don't see where that should have anything to do with it." | 25:50 |
Dorothy Hayes | I said, they take our money even though we are Baptist because in 1942, 1992— oh yeah, there's my award. That little small plaque that I got for my— | 26:33 |
Rhonda Mawhood | [indistinct 00:26:53]. | 26:52 |
Dorothy Hayes | I received that for my contributions to the school. And over here, the large one you see the plaque, is from my class of '42. | 26:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | The Harley H. Little Award. | 27:04 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah, award is to the class that has the highest amount of money during their reunion. And my class of 1942 had the highest amount of money in 1992. And we had to keep that until next year. And when you go to homecoming, it's when they give it to you. So each one of us was supposed to keep it for so long and I had it now. And they told me, said, "Well, you just bring it on the homecoming." I said, "I don't know whether I'm coming or not," but I'm going to have to do something about getting up there to get it back. Because they'll have to do the same thing this year for the class that has the highest contribution at their reunion. So we had the highest amount at our reunion, so we got to keep it for a year. | 27:07 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So did you join a sorority when you were at Livingstone colleges Ms. Hayes? | 28:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | No, I couldn't afford to because I was working and my parents were not able to give money to join a sorority. I would've loved to join one. But at the time that I was in school, well, I didn't necessarily think about it because I knew I couldn't afford it. And I don't know, there was something about it. Things you knew your family couldn't afford, it didn't bother me. I didn't try to push for something I knew I couldn't afford. It was unattainable so I didn't push for it. But when I was in school though, I was always invited to all of the affairs that the sororities and the fraternities had. So I really didn't miss not being a member. But I couldn't afford to. | 28:06 |
Dorothy Hayes | But after I came out of school, I've had friends that try to get me to join, but I said, well, I don't see why I need to join now. What I would've loved to do was to join when I was in college if I could have afforded to. But I couldn't. And as I said, I had to work the four years I was in school and when I'd come home doing summer, I'd work. Every summer I would find a job somewhere. | 28:55 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What kinds of jobs did you do in summer Ms. Hayes? | 29:22 |
Dorothy Hayes | In white folks houses because that's the only thing you could find then, for Black people. And when I first came out of college, I didn't get a job right off. But do you know what now? Now Miss Zefa's daughter, the one where my mother was working, they had children and she wanted me to come out there and take care of her kids. I told her I didn't go to college to take care of her grandchildren and I didn't go either. | 29:24 |
Dorothy Hayes | So when I first got out of school, at that time, if your parents were, as you would say, high up on the hog at that time, you didn't have any trouble getting a job. The principles that we had, the Black principals, they felt like they were way up there. And of course, if your mother or father was a doctor or a lawyer or something, you didn't have problems getting a job when you came out of school. Well, my mother working in service, you can imagine what a problem I had. So it was not easy. | 29:51 |
Rhonda Mawhood | So how did you finally get the job that you got teaching Ms. Hayes? | 30:34 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well my sister—in—law, my husband's sister lived next door to some people that were working and she invited us over to her house, this lady next door to my sister—in—law. They know that we like to play cards, we like to play pea knuckle. You play pea knuckle? | 30:37 |
Rhonda Mawhood | No, but my grandmother did. | 30:59 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah, we loved pea knuckle. And we went over and we played pea knuckle and this fellow was over there. I didn't know him, but he was over there and I found out he was a principal of Plato Price. And when school opened that next year, he needed a teacher, a science teacher. And he called me and I went over to his house and talked with him. And at that time, he said that he wasn't going to say whether the job would be permanent or not, but if things worked out okay, I might become permanent. But naturally, I went in there and worked my head off because I wanted a job at home. But I had worked in South Carolina for five years before that, but I wanted to work at home. | 31:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | And I went in there and I must've have done a good job because at the end, during that spring, he gave me a contract to sign and I didn't have a contract the whole year, but I got one that spring. And from then on, I had no problems. | 32:02 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Where did you work in South Carolina, Ms. Hayes? | 32:24 |
Dorothy Hayes | I worked in Shara, South Carolina. I worked at Long High School, I worked down there. But it was nice, I enjoyed it down there. But I don't know, it just wasn't like being home. And I was married too and I only came home on weekends. So my body was down there, but my mind was in Charlotte. But I enjoyed it. It was nice. The people were nice down there, but I was glad to come home. | 32:26 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What did your husband do, Ms. Hayes? You said that he worked in a furniture shop? | 33:11 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah. He worked there until he retired. He worked at Weathers Furniture Store out on South Boulevard. And his boss was R.L Weathers and he died, I think it was last year, Mr. Weathers died. And of course, my husband worked there until he retired. My husband, I think he retired in '84. | 33:14 |
Rhonda Mawhood | And what was he doing there, Ms. Hayes? | 33:39 |
Dorothy Hayes | He did everything. They said he was the warehouseman, he was the driver of the truck. And he just did everything out there, I guess you would say. Because when Mr. Weathers opened up the store, he went out there and helped him open up the store. But he never had a job other than a laborer. And even when you found Black people becoming salespersons, they never made him a salesperson or anything. And yet everyone that would come in the store knew him and they would talk about how wonderful he was and all good things that he did and whatnot. But I guess it was just that the man just couldn't think about giving a Black man a chance, anything other than a laborer. | 33:41 |
Dorothy Hayes | But I tried to get him to leave there because he had an opportunity to work at the post office and Mr. Weathers told him, "Oh no, you stay with me," blah blah. And he believed him and stayed out there. "Oh, I enjoy working at furniture." I said, "Well my goodness, you can make much more money and have more benefits working at a government job," because he was a veteran of World War II and he had gone out and taken the examination and he passed the exam and they wanted him to come and start and he wouldn't go. | 34:36 |
Dorothy Hayes | Then they sent for him to be a mechanic or something down at the post office. He didn't go and take that. And when they opened up the liquor stores here, they wanted him to work in the liquor store. He didn't take that. He enjoyed working out at Weathers and he wouldn't leave. I told him he had his loyalties at the wrong place, but it didn't do him any good. He stayed there until he retired. So I guess it pays to be loyal sometimes, but I don't know. God still let him stay here. He's still living. But he had that much loyalty to them people out there. | 35:15 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Well Ms Hayes, I've asked you just about everything that I wanted— I know you're very busy. I don't want to keep you for a long time. | 35:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, that's okay. I don't have to cook today. I cook yesterday and when I cooked yesterday, I cooked enough for today. So I don't have to cook dinner, but I do have to go to the fish house and get some fish. But I'm not going to do that until later on or in the morning. It doesn't matter because all I have to do is dust when my husband vacuum. So don't look at the dust. | 36:11 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Please. Well in that case I'll ask you a question that I'm interested in, in particular, which is, when you were growing up, who did your hair for you? | 36:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well now, let's see. There was a lady, her name was— What was that lady's name? She lived on Baldwin Avenue and they had this straightening comb and they would heat this straightening comb up and straighten your hair with that straightening comb. I can't remember the lady's name. And then, then when it got a little longer, my aunt had an electric curl and she would curl with that electric curl. | 36:46 |
Dorothy Hayes | And of course, as you got older, you went to the beauty parlor. The lady that used to do my hair, I think all of them are dead now. They called one of them Sweet Honey. She was on First Street. And one, Mona. Mona was on [indistinct 00:37:54] Street. Over there, by [indistinct 00:37:57] and Third Street over there. And when you go, they would wash you and they would straighten it for you and they would curl you. And I had more hair than I have now, tell you what happened to it. | 37:30 |
Dorothy Hayes | Finally, as I got older, my husband said I was stupid. I would want some tint. Everybody was getting tint in their head. And I started getting tint. And then I think that messed me up. And then they had something they call a perm, I even got a perm. And when I got that perm, I became baldheaded. Its worse than it is now. You could see my scalp all over. So I got me a wig and I wore wig. I think I got one. It was a real hair wig at the time because I'd take it to Beauty Parlor to get it dressed. And I wore this wig and worked with my scalp and I finally got some hair on it again. | 38:13 |
Dorothy Hayes | Then, I was going to this lady and she said— That's just in recent years. She said, "Let me try one of those waves on your head." So, I was taking the curl. I was getting the curl. And they would wash it and put something on it and curl it up and they'd take it out and then they'd wash it some more and then you'd have that curl in your head and it was doing well. And this lady kept saying, "I bet you look good in a wave." | 39:13 |
Dorothy Hayes | I had seen other people in the beauty parlor with waves and I thought— it took me a long time to get used to that. So eventually I said, "Okay, I'll try it." That's when I was going to my reunion at Livingston and she put that wave in my head. I thought it looked good and all you had to do was nothing but was spray it. You didn't have to bother to sleep with anything on your head or anything. And that's what I would do. And that wave would stay there about two and a half weeks. | 39:52 |
Dorothy Hayes | In fact, it would stay longer than that. But I would go back and get her to wash it and she would put it back in there and all that. I thought I was looking good. So eventually, she said, "Your scalp is getting dry so you're going to have to cut back on your curl for a while." But I didn't want to. So I said "Okay." And when she put that wave out my head, when I would comb my hair, I would just get hands full of hair. So I called and I told her, I said, "My hair is coming out." And she said, "Well, when your scalp gets dry, your hair will do that and you will have to keep it moist." | 40:34 |
Dorothy Hayes | I said, "Why didn't you tell me that that wave would do that?" Because I didn't know it. I would've never let her put that wave in my head. And she just looked sheepish. I was so angry with that lady and now I'm trying to get my hair to grow back again because it's just out and I just brush it up to the top. But I had to get me another wig though. I was so disgusted with that lady. I said, "Well." So now I go up and she's putting something in it, she calls a treatment so I'm hoping it'll come back. So they straighten it with a straightening comb when I was a kid and it would curl and my aunt would curl it with the electric curlers. And then of course, as you got older, then I started. | 41:26 |
Dorothy Hayes | My husband said he think I ruined it when I started putting tint in it. So I said, "Well, God has let me live to get 70 years old, so it can get as gray as it want to. I'll just let it be gray." But I'm going to put a wig on it until I get some hair. I'm going to put a wig on it until I get some hair. Then I will take the wig off and just let the gray be there. But the last wig I bought was a mixed [indistinct 00:42:46] wig because I didn't want it like it was all black because in fact, my hair has never been black. Or even as a kid, it was a brownish tinge to it. It wasn't black—hell like some people have. So I said I would just go ahead and let it be gray, but I don't think it'll ever grow back out like it was. She says it will grow back. So I don't know. But I was certain angry with her. Every time I go, I said, why didn't you tell me that thing was taking my hair out? | 42:15 |
Dorothy Hayes | It was so pretty. I said, "I can't see anything that pretty taking hair out like that." And she said that I had a curl under, you see, and the curl has to be down. I said, "Well you put it in there. You should have told me it was going to be like that," because with the wave nothing would penetrate it because it's hard. Very hard. And nothing would penetrate it. Even when you put the spray on it, all it would do is have a sheen to it. But it wasn't going to your scalp. And my scalp just dried up because I wore it for about a year, but I didn't know. I didn't know. | 43:16 |
Dorothy Hayes | Because the first one I had, was when I went to my reunion and that was May of '92. And here it is June of '93. And I'm baldheaded again. | 44:04 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I wouldn't say that. | 44:15 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well I tell you, from what it was, it just hurts me. But they say you shouldn't be pained. I'm trying not to be pained. I can just get a wig and go ahead. | 44:19 |
Rhonda Mawhood | This woman, Sweet Honey who lives in your neighborhood. | 44:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | She didn't live here over this way. She lived in First Ward, but she had a beauty shop on First Street. My aunt was going to her. | 44:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | [indistinct 00:44:46]. | 44:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | My aunt, Eliza. Her name was Eliza Davies, my mother's sister. And she had me to go over there. That was when I was in high school. In fact, it was when I went to the junior senior prom that first time because when I came out of high school, we came out in the 11th grade, you see, and the junior senior prom is the 10th grade. | 44:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | And then you went to 10th grade and the 11th grade to the junior senior prom. And she sent me over to have her do my hair for me when I was going to the junior senior prom. And I never shall forget. My uncle bought a dress for me and my aunt, she put the lipstick on her face and she fixed my face up. But the house that we live in, we didn't have a bathtub. We had these big old tubs that you bathe in. And we had one of these stoves in the kitchen. It would burn wood and coal. And on the side of that stove was a big old tank that you heated water in and you would take a bath. And I remember, I had taken my bath that day and when I got ready to get dressed to go to the prom, Ma said, "I'm going to bathe you again." | 45:23 |
Dorothy Hayes | She put in the tub and bath me again. She said, "I want to be sure you good clean when you go." I never shall forget that. But it was a lot of fun though. And when I went to the junior senior prom, I think I had two escorts that night because this one fellow was taking me and I had another fellow up there who— | 46:22 |
Dorothy Hayes | They would carry one to four for 25 cents. And the other cats were 10 cents apiece. So, we went to the junior-senior prom. At that time, the Grady Cole Center was a place where had the proms. Because it wasn't called the Grady Cole Center then, it was the— Oh, it wasn't the coliseum. I'm trying to think, what did they call that place? But anyway, that's where it was down there, because all the affairs were down there at this building. And of course we had orchestras. Children don't get to hear the good music that we heard during those times. Because there was Jimmy Gunn, he had a band. I mean, they had big bands, good music. And then there was Flat Tie came after that, he had a band. | 0:01 |
Dorothy Hayes | And we would go, and they would have a full band to play for you. And we just had a gorgeous time. And of course, I think the dances would last until about 12 o'clock, about 9 to 12, or something like that. And of course, like kids now, when the prom is over, they go out and eat or something. You went home, because your parents knew what time it was out, you came straight home. You didn't go eat at that time. No. You just came home after the dance and you thank God they let you go to the dance. But it was really nice, though. | 0:58 |
Rhonda Mawhood | What did your two escorts think of the fact that they both were taking you to the dance? | 1:40 |
Dorothy Hayes | I don't think they thought anything of it, because at that time I was not in love with anyone. I had a lot of friends. A lot of friends, and they all knew that I had a lot of friends. And so they didn't say anything about it. Nothing whatsoever. But we had a good time. And then one thing, too. My sister was a good dancer. She was really good. And we would all, by having music at our house, we would all get in there, the girls would dance with each other and learn all the latest dances. And we would teach the fellows how to dance. And when we would go to dances, they thought we were the best dancers in the world. And all of them wanted dance with us, because they figured that we could make them look good. So we never had to worry about dances. | 1:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | But it was a lot of fun, though. The kids then were nice. And if you teach someone how to dance— And my brother, he was in that bunch. He always wanted to dance with us. And some of them would say, "Well, Lee, those are your sisters." He said, "That's all right. I want to dance with them." Because we had taught him how to dance, and he wanted to look good. So, we just had a lot of fun. | 2:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Well, thank you very much for telling me all of this, Miss Hayes. | 3:16 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, I know I left a lot of it out, but you brought a lot of it back in asking questions. But I left a lot out, I know. But it's good meeting you, Mohall. | 3:18 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Mawhood. | 3:29 |
Dorothy Hayes | Mal- | 3:30 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Hood. | 3:32 |
Dorothy Hayes | Hood. | 3:32 |
Rhonda Mawhood | That's right. It's an unusual name. | 3:33 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, what classification are you now? | 3:35 |
Rhonda Mawhood | I'm just starting a PhD. I just started my first year. | 3:38 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, good. Oh boy. Now how old will you be when you finished that? | 3:41 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Oh my. Probably about 30. I'm 26 now. | 3:45 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, you don't look that old. | 3:48 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Well, I may by the time I finish. | 3:51 |
Dorothy Hayes | You look like just a young student. That's good. Well. Now, what are you majoring in? | 3:52 |
Rhonda Mawhood | It's a history. United States history. After the Civil War is the period I'm interested in. | 4:02 |
Dorothy Hayes | Yeah. Well, I tell you. There's a lot. I think about it, I go back sometimes. I think about how things used to be and how things are now. And you knew what people expected of you, and you tried to do what you thought was right. And you didn't have problems. And as a whole, I know when I used to work in service, some of the people that you worked for. I remember once I worked for a lady— I believe it was 8th Street when I was in high school, during the summer. | 4:08 |
Dorothy Hayes | She was a Mrs. Turner. No, I was going to college. That's when it was during the summer, because Mrs. Turner could knit. And I remember once she knitted me a beautiful sweater in a tan. Light, and it was so pretty. And she gave that to me when I was going to school. And I thought I was sharp, because no one else had a set like me. And then one year she knitted me— They had twin sweaters. You'd have the inside and the top. And the [indistinct 00:05:36]. | 4:49 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, people were nice to you. Even though you were working for them, I guess just a servant. They was really nice to you. At least, they were always nice to me. And one year I worked for a Mrs. Cutter. I don't know whether— Is Charlotte your home? | 5:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | No, ma'am. | 5:56 |
Dorothy Hayes | Oh, so you didn't know about [indistinct 00:06:00] . They were cotton brokers, I believe. And one of her sons got in trouble. He was supposed to have killed his girlfriend. He was married at the time. And of course I don't think Mr. Cutter made any time for it. But he died suddenly. He didn't die suddenly, but he died after that, I think it's a conscious killing. But anyway, they said he killed her. I don't know whether he did or not, but Mrs. Cutter was a nice person. | 5:57 |
Dorothy Hayes | I worked for her one summer. And when I got ready to leave to go to school, she gave me some money to help me out. I mean, people were just nice to you. And you appreciate people being nice to you, because you try to be nice to them. But they were really nice. Everyone that I ever had to work for was really nice to me. So as I said, I didn't know there was any difference because everybody I knew around in Cherry was working for White folks during that time. | 6:32 |
Dorothy Hayes | All except the Phillips. They didn't. But the rest of us did. So, it was just something that they would give you clothes and give you things and give you money to help you out. | 7:13 |
Rhonda Mawhood | Well, thank you. Thank you, Miss Hayes. | 7:34 |
Dorothy Hayes | Well, you are quite welcome. And if I let anything out, you can remind me and call me. | 7:36 |
Rhonda Mawhood | All right. Thank you. | 7:41 |
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