Mildred Moore interview recording, 1993 June 23
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, yes, yes. I was looking at that C.O. | 0:01 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Ivan just changed it on his. | 0:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay. | 0:04 |
Chris Stewart | Okay, your full name? | 0:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mildred Edmond Moore. | 0:11 |
Chris Stewart | How do you spell your maiden name? | 0:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | E-D-M-O-N-D. | 0:20 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | They lost it after in the second generation. | 0:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes, we lost it. | 0:25 |
Chris Stewart | And your current address is Route 1, Box 260. And is this Scotland Neck? | 0:27 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Scotland Neck. | 0:36 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Is it an E on the end of your name? M-O-O-R-E? | 0:41 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Um-hm. | 0:45 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Oh. She might have an E on Moore. I was looking at it. | 0:45 |
Chris Stewart | You did say an E, right? | 0:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, M-O-O-R-E. Yeah. | 0:49 |
Chris Stewart | And the zip code here? | 0:53 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 27874. | 0:54 |
Chris Stewart | And your home phone? | 0:57 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 826-4862. | 1:00 |
Chris Stewart | I should know that, because I call it [indistinct 00:01:03]. | 1:01 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, you should. (laughs) | 1:02 |
Chris Stewart | How embarrassing. | 1:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, that's all right. | 1:03 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Where you from? | 1:08 |
Chris Stewart | Minnesota. | 1:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And how does she—I mean, I think you're doing wonderful. | 1:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | My son, year before last, because he graduated last year and didn't walk—he was up in Chicago at Buck—not Bucknell. No, it's something else. We've been there, too—whatever the big university. | 1:17 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, Northwestern? | 1:28 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Yes. He was on a 3 or $5000 writing scholarship. I guess the same thing, something like y'all doing. Yeah. | 1:29 |
Chris Stewart | It's a really good place to go. | 1:37 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Yeah, he had himself some roommates. He was supposed to be staying on campus. He didn't stay on campus. | 1:39 |
Chris Stewart | How would you like your name to appear when it appears in a transcript when they do a transcript of this tape? How would you like to appear exactly? And write it exactly how you want it. Just the way it is? | 1:46 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, Mildred E. Moore. | 2:00 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 2:01 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Huh? | 2:01 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Use your whole name. | 2:01 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay. Just the way it is then. | 2:04 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Mildred, see nobody know what E is for. | 2:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, that's true. Okay. | 2:08 |
Chris Stewart | And it's actually quite important for women to continue doing it, because otherwise, we get lost. | 2:10 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 2:15 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But you know how they kept— | 2:15 |
Chris Stewart | Women are very important. | 2:15 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But do you know how White women kept their maiden names during the 1700s and the 1800s? | 2:16 |
Chris Stewart | Uh-uh. | 2:34 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Their first son first name was their maiden name. | 2:35 |
Chris Stewart | It's amazing what women will do to be—White women. Black women would just keep their whole entire name. | 2:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. Mm-hmm. | 2:50 |
Chris Stewart | Your date of birth? | 2:51 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | December the 10th, 1938. | 2:53 |
Chris Stewart | And you were born—Halifax County? | 2:58 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Halifax County. Mm-hmm. | 3:00 |
Chris Stewart | And you're currently married. | 3:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 3:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You don't know the plantation— | 3:10 |
Chris Stewart | And your spouse's name— | 3:10 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Hmm? | 3:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | We were talking about it, and I asked you that. See, that's the key when you're doing this, and you're asking them where in Halifax County. You told me that place was called—you know when I asked you where you were born? Like your husband was born— | 3:10 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | In Norfleet. | 3:25 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | In Norfleet, but see you need to know that place. You remember I told you that's what you needed? | 3:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, I got to get it. | 3:29 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | See, Halifax— | 3:31 |
Chris Stewart | I should be asking people exactly what— | 3:32 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Where. | 3:34 |
Chris Stewart | Which farm, which plantation. | 3:34 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Mm-hmm. And do you know why? Right, and if you ask them where Norfleet—the Smiths own a—you're getting a lot so you need to ask them exactly where. | 3:36 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 3:44 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And they'll tell you boom, this, or they'll tell you—it's just like— | 3:45 |
Chris Stewart | Right. Specific. | 3:51 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Grace Chapel, Tillery, or one of those, but I don't know that, so I just—I know it's Halifax County. | 3:52 |
Chris Stewart | So your spouse's first name? I mean, full name. | 3:59 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Archie. | 4:01 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 4:05 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | William, which he cannot stand. | 4:07 |
Chris Stewart | William? | 4:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 4:11 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That's [indistinct 00:04:11] you didn't give me. | 4:11 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm. He don't— | 4:13 |
Chris Stewart | And his date of birth? | 4:15 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | November the 12th, '33. | 4:16 |
Chris Stewart | And his place of birth was? | 4:23 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Norfleet. | 4:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Norfleet. | 4:26 |
Chris Stewart | And this is in Halifax County? | 4:30 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Halifax County. | 4:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 4:32 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Now see, that's going to let you—when you back him up, I can tell about his ancestors on the plantation. | 4:35 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 4:40 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I know exactly where he was born at. | 4:41 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 4:42 |
Chris Stewart | And his occupation? | 4:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Stock clerk. | 4:45 |
Chris Stewart | Your mother's name? | 4:51 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Cora, C-O-R-A, Ann. | 4:55 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Hall. | 4:58 |
Chris Stewart | Cora Ann. | 5:00 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, no. | 5:01 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Not Ann, just— | 5:02 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Cora. | 5:03 |
Chris Stewart | I'm sorry. | 5:03 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | See you didn't tell me that I had to get out the paper. Her maiden name was Hall Edmonds. See, I've been a little busy. | 5:04 |
Chris Stewart | Edmond. | 5:15 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, I'm sorry. No S. | 5:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Cotton. | 5:17 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Cotton. I'm sorry. I messed your thing up. | 5:18 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Her friend was Hall, you're right. | 5:23 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Right, so I had to get back down to [indistinct 00:05:27]. | 5:26 |
Chris Stewart | Okay, so her maiden name— | 5:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Her maiden name was Cotton. | 5:27 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Was Cotton. I'm sorry. | 5:27 |
Chris Stewart | It's okay. I can scribble. And Edmond? | 5:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 5:34 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Mm-hmm. | 5:34 |
Chris Stewart | And your mother's birthdate? | 5:38 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | December the 30th. | 5:41 |
Chris Stewart | 30th? | 5:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 5:42 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 5:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No, it's the last day. It's the 31st. It was December 31st. | 5:42 |
Chris Stewart | Is there 31 days in December? | 5:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. Yeah. | 5:43 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | [indistinct 00:05:53]. | 5:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, 31st. What Mama's—19— | 5:55 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | '12. | 5:55 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 5:55 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Wasn't it '12? | 5:55 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 5:55 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Your father's was [indistinct 00:06:03]. | 6:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. 1912. | 6:03 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | It's '12, your father was '9. | 6:03 |
Chris Stewart | And what year did she die? | 6:07 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Two years ago. | 6:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, she said where. | 6:10 |
Chris Stewart | No, what year. | 6:12 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | What year. | 6:13 |
Chris Stewart | Two years ago, did you say? | 6:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 6:15 |
Chris Stewart | So '91. | 6:15 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | '91. | 6:15 |
Chris Stewart | And where was she born? | 6:19 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Halifax County. | 6:21 |
Chris Stewart | Where? | 6:24 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I can't tell y'all that. | 6:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I don't know that. | 6:27 |
Chris Stewart | No, I'm just— | 6:27 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, I think it was in Norfleet. Yeah. | 6:29 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Was it? I know the Cottons from down that way. | 6:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. Yeah, Norfleet area. Yeah. | 6:33 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. And your mother's occupation? | 6:38 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Homemaker. | 6:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 6:41 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Domestic engineer. | 6:43 |
Chris Stewart | That's what they say now. | 6:45 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. That's— | 6:47 |
Chris Stewart | Your father's full name? | 6:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Alvin. Just Alvin Edmond. | 6:49 |
Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:06:57]. | 6:55 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Alvin Edmond. | 6:56 |
Chris Stewart | Why am I doing this? I'm sorry. And your father's date of birth? | 6:58 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | All you have to do it right there. You don't even need to guess it. | 7:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 11/28/09. | 7:04 |
Chris Stewart | And when did he die? | 7:14 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You don't have to guess it. | 7:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | When, she said. | 7:16 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | There it is. | 7:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I see it. March the 28th, 1973. | 7:23 |
Chris Stewart | And where was he born? | 7:27 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | On Tillery. | 7:28 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Why don't you tell them where in Tillery, ma'am? Felton. | 7:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Felton? Where is that? | 7:34 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Down there where cousin Adell live at. Right down there in that area that's way past cousin Adell's house. That's called Felton, where they came right off the plantation there. | 7:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Really? | 7:45 |
Chris Stewart | And your father was a farmer? | 7:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Did they ever live near where the center is? | 7:48 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Well, that's what I put in the book. That's what you told me. | 7:55 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, that's what they told me. | 7:56 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | [indistinct 00:07:58]. | 7:56 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Uh-huh. | 7:58 |
Chris Stewart | Now, we're going to get your brothers and sisters starting from the oldest to the youngest. | 8:00 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, my goodness. | 8:08 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | This ain't no problem, huh? Run it over. It's from the oldest to the youngest. | 8:08 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay. Mm-hmm. Oh, you wanted her—Ethel Lee Edmond Moore. | 8:14 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | They married brothers. | 8:21 |
Chris Stewart | This was the sister that you were— | 8:24 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No. No, no, no. I can go on and on with that. | 8:26 |
Chris Stewart | And when was she born? | 8:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 28th of September, 1928. | 8:33 |
Chris Stewart | And was she born? | 8:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | In Halifax County, too. | 8:43 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 8:49 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Next time you talk to them, they going to know where they were born at. | 8:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, yeah. Yeah. My brother's C-O-T-T-I-E, and he spelled it S-E-E. Okay. Edmond. | 8:50 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I saw that, and I thought that was wrong. | 9:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Uh-uh. | 9:03 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | [indistinct 00:09:06] changed that, too. | 9:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | The first month, 16th, '31. | 9:07 |
Chris Stewart | In Halifax County as well? | 9:11 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | In Halifax County. | 9:14 |
Chris Stewart | Isn't that nice to [indistinct 00:09:17]. | 9:15 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | This is great. Gladys Mae Edmond Barnes. | 9:16 |
Chris Stewart | G-A-L— | 9:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | G-A-L-D-Y-S. And then M-A-E. Edmond Barnes. | 9:23 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 9:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 11 month, 28 day in '32. | 9:40 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 9:43 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Did you want their children, too, or just all 11? | 9:48 |
Chris Stewart | I would like all children. | 9:51 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay. When you get to the '35—what year you at now? | 9:53 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | '32. | 9:56 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay, then— | 9:57 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | '34. | 9:57 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay, then put the child that passed right there. See, I didn't run— | 10:00 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I don't know. That wasn't right. | 10:04 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | The '36 wasn't correct? Well, that's about as good as any. | 10:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Wait, now— | 10:08 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But that's about as good as any, because— | 10:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Wait, wait, wait. Here. He have Hilliard, and it's supposed to be Selma next. Mine's next. | 10:13 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay. | 10:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Dot next. | 10:17 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay. Is this the new sheet that I ran off? Okay, this one. It is Hilliard— | 10:19 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And Selma. | 10:25 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay, because see I had to change Selma because Selma was '36. But that child was— | 10:25 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | It's between here and Selma. | 10:32 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Right. So that's okay. So that the next child was—What was her name again? What'd you tell me? | 10:34 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My mind is sleeping. What's Mama name that baby? | 10:43 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I don't know. It's on the old sheet, but that was before. I ran this off before that one. I can't think of what that child's name was. | 10:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Emma Inez. | 10:57 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Oh, yeah, Emma Inez. | 10:58 |
Chris Stewart | And is that after— | 11:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Wait, no, no. Hilliard is after Gladys. | 11:04 |
Chris Stewart | Can you spell that? | 11:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | H-I-L-L-I-A-R-D. | 11:05 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Yeah, and see I changed that because— | 11:07 |
Chris Stewart | Hilliard— | 11:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Edmond. | 11:10 |
Chris Stewart | And— | 11:12 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | His birth— | 11:15 |
Chris Stewart | '34?. | 11:18 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, Hilliard is one, two, three, four. | 11:20 |
Chris Stewart | 1/6/34? January. | 11:22 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Uh-huh. Okay. | 11:22 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | He was [indistinct 00:11:30]. Uh-uh. That's Cottie. | 11:29 |
Chris Stewart | Yeah, because that's the same as Cottie. | 11:30 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | One, two, three, four. | 11:35 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Cottie was born in January the 6th. | 11:40 |
Chris Stewart | Uh-huh. | 11:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Hilliard was born in August the 6th. | 11:46 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Okay, see that's why I brought these things in here so you can tell me what's wrong. | 11:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Mm-hmm. | 11:49 |
Chris Stewart | Okay, and then who's after Hilliard? | 11:50 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Emma. | 11:52 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Selma. | 11:53 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Uh-uh. I thought you said the child that passed was in between Hilliard and Selma, the one that died? | 11:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Uh-uh. | 12:03 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | She was in between who? | 12:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Selma and it's Hilliard and then, yeah, it was. Okay. Emma Inez. | 12:06 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Emma Inez. | 12:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Her birth, the date I— | 12:16 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Well, what I did was—no. You can tell from when them other children were born and when she was born, because Hilliard was in '34. This other child was in '36, so she was in '35. | 12:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You cut this off, haven't you? | 12:31 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 12:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay. | 12:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And gone here I'm going to tell her about you. Take some pictures— | 0:02 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Oh, they gone to tell me all ready, honey. | 0:05 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. Actually, I'd like both of you to introduce yourself since we're going to be hearing maybe two voices on the tape. So if you could introduce yourself, Ms. Moore, and then you can go ahead and introduce yourself. | 0:08 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My name is Mildred Edmond Moore. | 0:20 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 0:23 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | My name is Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster. | 0:24 |
Chris Stewart | Okay, wonderful. I'd like to start by asking you, Ms. Moore, were you born in this area? | 0:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | In Halifax County, yes. | 0:37 |
Chris Stewart | You were telling me, were you born over on the other side of Scotland Neck over. | 0:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, it's not in that area. The place I was telling you about, that's where I grew up. I wasn't born over that area. It was more in Dawson, not Dawson. I think it's more of Hop Good area. That's where I was told I was born over that area, but I'm not sure. | 0:45 |
Chris Stewart | When did you move then over to the place in Scotland Neck? How long were you in the— | 1:07 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I think I should have been maybe about four. | 1:12 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, so you were really— | 1:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. Yeah. Very young when I was over there. | 1:17 |
Chris Stewart | Right. So you do you remember that other place? The housing place— | 1:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No, not too much. | 1:17 |
Chris Stewart | Yeah. Do you remember your grandparents? | 1:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. I remember one very well. I remember both of my grandfather, not my grandmother. I don't remember my mother's mother at all. I think she passed when I was either just born or I wasn't born at all. My father's mother, she was very sick. That's the part I remember her. I don't remember talking to her that much because she was very ill most of the time as I was a child and soon she passed. My mother's father, I remember him. He at the time he lived in our home at one point because he had gotten ill and he was very, very strict on us. He made us clean house. | 1:28 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That one thing. I said, "Oh, I got the meanest granddaddy." If we leave anything laying around or if we sweep the floor and just leave any, he would make us sweep and sweep until we got it just perfect. So that's one of the things that stands out about him. He was a very unique person, very clean, and he just carried himself in a very intelligent way, a very stern grandfather. And my father's father, that was the one. I just loved him. I loved my mother's father, but he was more stern and young people had a tendency of saying he's mean or she's mean. They are not, but that's what we say. | 2:19 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | But my father's father, which his name was Hilliet Edmond, and my father was Alvin Edmond, and anytime I saw my grandfather, my eyes just lights up because I knew I was going to have some candy, cookies, or sodas. He would reach down in his pocket. He used to make these—He would reach down in his pocket and I knew he was coming out with something and I just loved my grandfather. I mean, when he passed, I was so sad. I would stay sad. He used to walk down the street. He made spoons, wood spoons and wood boxes and bowls for people to mix their food up. And here's one here one— | 3:03 |
Chris Stewart | Is this, one of the bowls— | 3:45 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | This is the one. My mother used to make biscuits out of this. She made her cake batter out of that, and she also chopped up barbecue. Or pork meat to make barbecue, delicious, out of the same bowl here. And he used to walk down the street with it on his head. He would carry it on his head and he made them for most the community around where he lived. And he was just our ideal grandfather, I thought. | 3:45 |
Chris Stewart | Was that how he made his money by making the wooden implements for and did he sell him to people— | 4:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, he did. | 4:20 |
Chris Stewart | —in the community? Did he also farm? Do you remember if he was a farmer? | 4:22 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, he was a farmer. I don't know too much about his farming, but I know he was a farmer. I'm quite sure he was share crop of farmer. He didn't own his own property. So he was a share crop farmer. | 4:24 |
Chris Stewart | Did he live with you for any time when you were growing up? | 4:38 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No, we lived near him and we would go visit him, but I don't remember living with us at all. Only one I remember living with my mother's father. | 4:42 |
Chris Stewart | How far away did he live? Was it within walking distance? Was it a long walk? | 4:52 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, it was a long walk. I mean, that's the way we got around by walking most of the time. But it was a long walk from my father where we lived, my father's home. | 4:56 |
Chris Stewart | How about any other relatives? Were there any aunts or uncles that lived around you as well? | 5:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My father's brother. We lived, at one point, we lived in the same house with my uncle. My father's youngest brother. His name was Raymond Edmond and his family and my family lived in the same home. It was a huge, big upstairs house, big house. And they shared the same home at one time. Then they always lived near each other, not too far from each other. | 5:13 |
Chris Stewart | Was this the house that you were telling me about that's over on the other— | 5:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No, that's not the house. That's not the house. Okay. This particular house—Yeah, that's when I was younger when we all lived together. And at a point then my father moved from that house to this house. They used to call the Grave Line. Do you know anything about the Grave Line? Okay. There's a line of houses on one area where the old hospital is today, and that's where my uncle, my dad, and about four other family live in houses, line it up together. And we all always called that the Grave Line. That house did not have any lights indoor, just plumbing, anything. And I remember one time I think I was about eight years old, maybe four, about five. At that time about five or six. I think yeah, about five or six years old and this plane came over. We was living on this man's farm. | 5:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | His name was Clarence White's Farm, the person home, our house we was living in. And I resented as a child, they was taking pictures of us. I think about this today. I thought about why are they taking picture of us. We did not have proper clothing, bare feet. And of course, we wasn't—I just didn't think that they should be invading on us, just taking picture of us. I didn't like that as a child. But other than that was that incident, it was a good life for me far as 'm concerned. And the first time we got lights. Oh, God— | 6:45 |
Chris Stewart | How old were you when— | 7:27 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, the same. About the same age. Yeah, very young. And I thought, oh, heaven had broken loose, it seemed so. It was so bright in the house. I said, "God," because we were used to the lamps. We had lamps or— | 7:29 |
Chris Stewart | Was it hard to get used to that brightness? | 7:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. Yeah, it was hard for a while— | 7:47 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But fun. | 7:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, but fun. I mean, it was so bright. We just didn't know what had happened. But we was excited and grateful. The light just hanging from the ceiling. Nothing but just a bulb hanging down from the ceiling but we were very glad that we was able to get some little light. | 7:49 |
Chris Stewart | Did everybody in that, you said that your uncle and your family all lived along that road. Did everybody get lights at the same time? | 8:08 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes. That's when it came in that community, the lights came in that community. | 8:16 |
Chris Stewart | Were there any other people who lived around you who weren't relatives close to you? | 8:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 8:29 |
Chris Stewart | Do you remember that? | 8:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I remember, as I said, I was young at that age and I remember it was two family, maybe three. Three family that lived, but I cannot think of their name at this time. I'm terrible about remembering names. I can't remember. | 8:34 |
Chris Stewart | What do you remember about them? Not necessarily their names, but how far did they live from you? Were they working on this farm as well? | 8:52 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes. All worked on the same farm because it was a row of houses altogether. I remember this particular lady, she was Miss—Oh God, her name came to me. But anyway, I won't prolong the time. She was very helpful to my older sister. They was rationing. They had to buy food with stamps and clothes with stamps at that time. And she would save hers up and give them to my sister so she could make sure she would get the right clothes. And I thought that was very big heart for her to do that. I remember that very well about her. | 8:59 |
Chris Stewart | Why did they have to buy food and clothes with stamps instead of money— | 9:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's what you call— | 9:44 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That was in the forties. | 9:45 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Forties— | 9:45 |
Chris Stewart | Was this during the war? | 9:45 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | 1940s when they ration in terms of the money they used, that was another form of money. | 9:50 |
Chris Stewart | Right. Right, right. Right. What kinds of games did you play with the children? Were there children around from your cousins and— | 9:56 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, we would play hopscotch, of course, and we would play marbles. I had this cousin, we used to enjoy playing together. We would go out in the woods and we would pretend we was Tarzan and the vines hanging down from the trees and we would get on those vines. They were very strong. We would swing from tree to tree every evening and we would get our rifle out. We would follow him and go hunting for birds in the woods and whatever he could shoot, I would try to shoot at. And that's why today I can shoot very well with a gun because he taught me how to shoot a gun. And those basically the games with—Because it was so many children, the money wasn't there. So we had to make our own games. We were very artistic-minded. We would get anything to make something out of. So that's how we had fun making different things to have fun with and we did. | 10:06 |
Chris Stewart | When you were this age, can you recount say what your day would be like? I mean, would you have chores in the morning and go to school? Can you remember what a typical day would be for you? | 11:11 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay, in the morning we had to get up, of course, before we had plumbing. Early in the morning, we would have to take the outdoor part out. We would then wash the dishes if the dishes wasn't washed. We had to make our bed up. That was basically what I had to do. That's when I was young. And then as I grew older, started getting older, I would make sure I take care of the house chores, and then I would help my mom and I would help my father. | 11:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I was one of the daughters in the family that helped both sides. It was five girls and most of the girls, my mother was a little protective of us. She didn't make us cook. Didn't any of know how to cook when they got married because she would do most of her cooking? But I would go in the kitchen, I would cook, I would help her cook, I would clean, make sure the house was clean. And I had this garden. I was just so clean. I didn't want anybody walking. I would chop my garden. Most people want grass, but I would try bury a piece of grass that was in there. The whole yard was just clean and put my plants there and just rake it out every evening and made it real nice and neat at all time and have my little garden, vegetable garden. | 12:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I was mostly by myself at some points in life. I like to explore. I just got away. I always was eager to learn anything that I could learn. And that just made me feel better of learning what I could and getting back to this particular house that I called my home. It was, well, that Grave Line, we moved from there. And then the man house that we were living in. Farm, I should say. He built us a new home. Well, the house— | 12:54 |
Chris Stewart | Is this the same man who you were working for the same man— | 13:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Clarence White, Clarence House. Clarence House. He built us a home, my father. And we moved from on that side with everybody and moved over. The house was tall on one side. You can walk up under it. The boys, my brother's friends used to come ride their bike. They would ride all the way up under the house. My brother had this goat and the goat would come and run them all the way from the other end of the house. I would get away from myself and I made this stick house. It was back of the house in the wooded area. | 13:35 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I would go by myself and would just make this stick house out of sticks, have made me a little chair, sat there and I made just all little furniture out of stick and get me a broom and just clean it and just be by myself. That's my getaway. That was my getting away point. I just want to get away from everybody and I would stay down. At night sometime my mother had to come and get me, it was getting dark, no lights down. And that was the home that I really, really remember very well and I enjoyed that home more than the homes that I lived in. | 14:09 |
Chris Stewart | How come you wanted to get away? How come you wanted to have that little place? Was it because you were from a large family? | 14:48 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I always say my mama had two sets of children. It was the older set and the younger set. I have a sister older than I am, and myself and my younger sister, it was just the three of us home at that point. My older sister and brother had moved or they had their own thing to do. And I think the point when I got lonely, I believe it was my aunt had two children at that time and she wanted my older sister, the one older than I am to stay with her to babysit. | 14:58 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | So she took her away from me. That's the one I said, I just adore. I just adore her. Anything she say just was so funny. Just anything she would do was just so funny to me. Then she lived with my aunt and she took my joy away from me. She didn't know, she didn't have no intention of hurting me, but she needed someone to keep her children and I would just get lonely and just go there. And that's how I kept myself occupied with my little home. So that was one of the reason I just want to get away. | 15:35 |
Chris Stewart | Who made the decisions in your family? Decisions say about finances, about disciplining the children, about who you were going to go out on a date with, or how late you could stay out? Was it your mother or your father? | 16:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, my father. My father was most the one that would make sure, tell us when to come back. He was the one that budget the money and he was most of the father figure. My— | 16:33 |
Chris Stewart | Go ahead. | 16:52 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My mother was most, she could do these things, but that was his job to do. She was more of a house—I mean a mother, mother figure. One of those mother figures. She would let us go out, enjoy ourself. She explained to us what life was all about, she wasn't very strict on us. I mean, she disciplined us. She did not have to scold too much because she could look at us and we knew then to get in place. So it wasn't a lot of whipping and things like that. It was just, she talked to us a lot. And that expression, that body language let us know that, hey, we better get in— | 16:53 |
Chris Stewart | It's that mother voice. | 17:37 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. | 17:38 |
Chris Stewart | Yeah. Do you remember what were the occasions for extended family to come together and celebrate? When do you remember, you said that you had extended relatives that lived around you? When did you all come together to celebrate events? | 17:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | On Christmas, during the Christmas holidays or on most time when people used to kill hogs. That's when many times the family just got together. They would exchange if someone, one member kill a hog, they would send some over to the next family and vice versa and we just lived close so we just got together most anytime. It wasn't nothing— | 17:58 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Two on a Sunday. | 18:21 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, Sunday— | 18:22 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Or church down here is according to which church you would go to on the second Sunday or third Sunday, then they got together. | 18:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 18:32 |
Chris Stewart | What do you remember about say Christmastime get-togethers? What were those like? | 18:33 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, my mother was, she entertained a lot. She loved to entertain. She would cook all these cakes, pies. The kitchen was just full of cakes and pies, food everywhere. And we just eat, eat. And we would have all of us. Of course, the money wasn't that great. Each person would have a Christmas gift. Wasn't a lot, but mostly food, entertaining. And my mother used to love to dance and we had record player and she would get out there and do her dance and we just got together to enjoy just a family gathering. Mostly eating and sharing ideas and just talking and just enjoying those generally. | 18:39 |
Chris Stewart | When did you start going to school? | 19:25 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I was about six years old when I started school. | 19:27 |
Chris Stewart | And where did you go? | 19:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Brawley. | 19:33 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. | 19:34 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Okay. Brawley High School. | 19:35 |
Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your teachers from school? | 19:38 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. I remember Ms. Barnes, that was my home economic teacher. She taught me the culture of life, how to set a table, how to cook, how to prepare different meals other than the same routine. And she sticks in my mind a lot because she taught me how to sew and how to be ladylike. She stressed at with the young girls how to be refined. The culture was very different. And that's what I enjoy with her. And I remember I had a teacher, my first-grade teacher with Mrs. Bise. Bise. Bise. Do you remember her? Mrs. Bise and Mr. Bise. He was the principal of the school. She was the first-grade teacher. One of my teacher was Mrs. Savage. Savage, I think I'm pronouncing it right. She was a great inspiration to me. She was tender and she was loving. I had Mrs. Dixon, she was a good teacher too. Very good teacher. | 19:41 |
Chris Stewart | Listen, look at all this that you're remembering. | 20:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. And Ms. Theallison, that was the music teacher, and Mr. Barnes, who was my math teacher, Mrs. Randolph, she used to gym. She's in the gym. (phone rings) That's a partner. | 21:01 |
Chris Stewart | [INTERRUPTION 00:21:25] very back. Okay. We were talking about teachers and you were remembering all your teachers. Was this school, did Brawley School, was it a one through 12? | 21:25 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 21:36 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. So you went there the whole entire time you went to school. You mentioned that with Ms. Barnes that she taught you refinement and she taught you how to be a lady. Can you remember some of the specific things that she taught you that she thought were important things to know to be a lady? | 21:37 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, she just taught us how to act. I mean, what to do, how to carry ourself and what not to say and what not to do. To be more of a lady. Things that a lady at that time, if you said anything out of way, you wouldn't consider being a lady. So all those things she would tell us, tell the class, all those things. How to set the table that was one of my impressive things. And of course, she was just always giving us the right direction. | 22:00 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Family values. | 22:38 |
Chris Stewart | Family values. | 22:38 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Family values. | 22:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes. | 22:44 |
Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of the courses? You mentioned the home economics course. Was that your favorite course and if so, what was your least favorite? | 22:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | English. Can't you tell? | 22:59 |
Chris Stewart | No, not at all. Why? | 23:02 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | English. I could not get English at all. I could not. I didn't like English. When I would go in my English class, my heart start pounding from the time I got there until the time I left because I was afraid she was going to call on me. That was my worst. That's the one I did not like. I like biology. I like to experiment on different things. Yeah, I like that one. | 23:06 |
Chris Stewart | Were there extracurricular activities in the school clubs or anything like that you were involved with in school? | 23:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | At one time I was playing basketball and I was in the student council. I was a member of the student council group. I was in glee club. I start out taking, but I didn't stay in it too long, but, well, about two years. Yeah, about two years I was in glee club. What other things? That's basically what I remember. | 23:45 |
Chris Stewart | You mentioned earlier that there were times that you didn't go to school for three or four weeks at a time. Was this during this period? | 24:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, that was during my going to school because living on a sharecropper farm, we had to do the farming, so we had to stay out of school. I've known Tom, as I said before, I've stayed out of school about two weeks straight. In my family, I think I was the slowest one in the family when it came to the education background. And it took me, everybody was just so far and ahead of me. I get there and study hard and try to catch up, by the time I catch up, I just stay out another week or so. But my other sisters, it was no problem with them, but with me, it seemed like it was a little problem. | 24:26 |
Chris Stewart | Did they help you at home with your studying? | 25:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, sometime they did. Sometime. | 25:12 |
Chris Stewart | But you were on your own for— | 25:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh yes, yes, I was on my own. | 25:19 |
Chris Stewart | What times of the year would you be staying home to work on the farm? | 25:21 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | When it's time to do the—Like this in June. Yeah, because now they don't chop and do too much now. We have to chop the grass out of the peanuts and the cotton and thin the cotton out and putting in tobacco and all those from—Yeah, up until now. June. June was the month that I was out most of them. June and July. | 25:28 |
Chris Stewart | What were the crops that were on the farm when you were— | 25:56 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Tobacco, corn, peanuts, soybean. That's mostly what we had. The biggest part was tobacco and cotton and peanuts. | 26:00 |
Chris Stewart | And each of these crops required different kinds of work or were they— | 26:18 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, the tobacco did, it required because you had to plant the tobacco and then after it grew so large, you had men at that time, they didn't have the machine like they have now. The men would have to pull the leaves off when they got yellow. They had to pull those out. Then they would put them in a little wagon and bring them back to the area where they had paper there to tie the tobacco and then you put it on the stick. You had the string and you had to tie it up and then after you put it on the string, you had to put it in the barn to dry it out. And that was a little different from the rest. | 26:24 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, peanuts, you had to put those on stacks. We didn't have the machine. As I said before, you had to put those on stacks and you had to shake them by hand. And I remember I could not deal with seeing my mom do that heavy work. I thought I could just protect her. My sister, two sister, and my mom would be on one side. I think it was about eight rows. I believe it was eight rows on each side, and I would take one side. I would take eight rows and let those three be on one side and I would take one side, so my mom wouldn't have to work so hard. That's what I thought. | 27:05 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But the rows were how long? | 27:45 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, God. Two miles long. Long, long rows. You had to dig a hole with a hole digger and you put a pole down in the hole and you put two little pieces of wood like a cross to start a tobacco I mean peanuts. You start at the bottom and then you work your way up. You just go up and shake the dirt out of the peanuts and put them on top and layers and layers and layer until it get as high as you can get. And of course, I was five feet, but I did. Then I would help my father get up early in the morning because my brothers, they left home and I was the one that would help him. I would get up early in the morning and with the tobacco and put it on and whacking, layer it up, and then we would take it and put it in the barn. | 27:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I would go in the barn with him and pass him that tobacco sticks after they got on the stick to hang up in the barn so they can cure the barn, I mean, tobacco and had heat. He had heaters in there and they put those heat on certain gage to dry it out. And I would help him do that. Then I'd come home at night. If my mom need help, I would help her. I was the one in the family that I was on both sides. I guess I was trying to protect both of them, my dad and my mom because my older sister left. Mama didn't have as much help. My older brother had left, and my daddy didn't have that much help. So the other two sister didn't— | 28:47 |
Chris Stewart | It sounds like you were doing what was thought to be both men's work and women's work. | 29:28 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. That's true. | 29:33 |
Chris Stewart | Wow. Wow. How was your dad's relationship to the owner of the farm? | 29:34 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My daddy was a very stern father. He respect them, but he also demand respect. He was one of the people on the farm that did not take a lot of—That's right. He just did not and I respect my father today for that because he did say, "Yes, sir," which I did not like. I resented that as a child. Yes, sir. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think they said, yeah. And I couldn't stand it as a child. That's one of the thing that I, as a child, my father—That's one time I think he really scold me terrible because I would not say it. I would say yes and no. I would not say that. | 29:42 |
Chris Stewart | How old were you then? | 30:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I was about eight or nine years old. 10 and I was eight. And I just didn't think it was necessary to do that and I resented. And he's— | 30:41 |
Chris Stewart | Were there ever any instances where your father—Like you said, he was very stern and he demanded respect. Can you think of any kind of specific instances or was this just sort of an understood between the two of them? | 30:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That was understood. | 31:12 |
Chris Stewart | Were there any times when—What was the name of the owner of the— | 31:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Clarence White, not Clarence White, Clarence House. | 31:18 |
Chris Stewart | Were there ever any instances when he tried to take advantage? | 31:22 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Of course, they always took advantage. | 31:25 |
Chris Stewart | Can you relate to me? Can you remember? | 31:29 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, at the end of the year, you would do all this farming all year. You did not have to pay because you were living in their home. You worked hard all year long. Sometime they'll come up and say, "The farm didn't do well." I mean the crop didn't do well. No money for that whole year. That's taking advantage. I mean, what else could a person do? You work all year and someone tell you, you don't have any money when you have seven children. | 31:29 |
Chris Stewart | What would your family do under those circumstances? | 32:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, my father would, on a weekend sometime they'll go borrow money, then you had to pay that money back. You stayed in a hole all the time, borrowing money. For food, you had credit, you can go get food on credit. Clothing the same way. So when you got your money all owed out to somebody else. | 32:09 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Let me interject this. Let me say that shared cropping was a no-win situation simply because the owner of the plantation or the farm, he had education. Now, my grandfather, Pegan share cropped. I asked my mother, why did they move so much? My grandmother, for that day and time, she would be considered an educated person. She would have a college degree for that day and time. She could keep books and records. So at the end of the year when you had to settle up with the owner of the plantation or the owner of the farm for my grandfather during that time too, men talk to men. The women didn't talk. But my grandmother would educate my grandfather as to Pony. You got X number of bails from him. So this is what you owe him. This is what he should owe you. And I can remember Mr. Wells. Mr. Wells would tell my grandfather. "Well, Pony— | 32:35 |
Chris Stewart | Mr. Wells was the plantation owner? | 33:52 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Right. He owned the plant, he owned the farm. He said, "Well Pony, you almost broke even this year. Another year you should break even." And my grandfather being very respectful would say to him and pull his little records out to show that I broke even and you owe me a dollar. They moved again. | 33:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 34:18 |
Chris Stewart | You were talking about people moving as well. | 34:19 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 34:21 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And that was the reason because share cropping was a no-win situation. But I will say this, that from a White perspective, that most White people perceived that even though our families were sharecroppers, we did not have money, but we had something that money couldn't buy and that was love. We were rich in love and then also too, we had our own little gardens and we didn't know that we were culturally deprived until we got into senior high school and college. Then we found out that we were culturally deprived. | 34:21 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 34:59 |
Chris Stewart | Right. Right. Right. Did your family, or did people around you move? | 35:02 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 35:06 |
Chris Stewart | How often? | 35:08 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And how often? My husband was dating at the time I was dating at a very early age. He said, "Why are you all moving so much?" Because they own their property. I mean lots of acres. And he could not understand it. If you got angry about something or if the farmer, if you didn't do well on the farm, you moved to another farm or any reason. Any reason. Any reason that you didn't get up— | 35:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Anything that they could think up. | 35:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | They would just take off and go someplace else. | 35:45 |
Chris Stewart | Were there white landowners who were known as particularly bad people to work for in this area? | 35:47 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Define what you mean by a particular bad. | 35:56 |
Chris Stewart | I mean, that might have perhaps been violent in addition to taking financial control or trying to take financial control. | 35:58 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, I'm quite sure it'd arise, but no, my father wouldn't allow that to happen to him. So I— | 36:17 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I don't think most of them were violent. They use—You don't have to be violent— | 36:22 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Verbal. | 36:30 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Right. And you don't have to be violent when you can use another means. If you are educated, you dealing with somebody who's not educated, you can count. He can't count. | 36:30 |
Chris Stewart | Right. | 36:39 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Then you use that from a financial standpoint and see everything was bought on credit. And when you bought something on credit, they did not. They had a little book and you coming into the store and they would write down what you got, but you didn't have a receipt or copy. So at the end of the month or at the end of the year, you had to rely on them. And just from a standpoint, all over the South, if you go back through the records, all of the plantation owners is called the first rule of nature is self-preservation. And they looked out for theirs and there, and we had to do the same for ourselves. | 36:40 |
Chris Stewart | What I was trying to get at with that question is whether or not there was a place that was understood that you just—You moved around a lot, but you just didn't move to that place, and that perhaps only the people who had no other choice as to where they were going to go, that they ended up going to that place. | 37:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, if my father had that point of—If he thought this, I didn't know it. It could have happened but we didn't know. We didn't know the reason. We didn't know why or what. So I'm quite sure in his mind it has been someone that he preferred not living on his farm. | 37:44 |
Chris Stewart | You mentioned that your then-boyfriend and future husband came from a family that owned land. What was the relationship between those Black people who owned land? And I assume that that's up there by the river and in the settlement project area. What was the relationship between—you married him (laughs)—and those people who didn't own land? | 38:09 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, fine. The relationship fine. I mean, they didn't look down on the one that didn't. If they had anything in their mind, they didn't come out with it. Because once you're taught to respect yourself, then others going to respect you. So this is why I didn't have any problem with that, because I felt just as important as they did, even though I didn't have that. | 38:42 |
Chris Stewart | How did you and your husband meet? | 39:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, it's a long story. | 39:15 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, good. I like long stories. | 39:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Not really. To tell the truth my cousin introduced us. She introduced me to his cousin that's the one that she was trying to get to date, his cousin and I but we was interested in each other. He brought his cousin to date my sister. I wasn't permitted to date. I wasn't supposed to date. I was the chaperone. I was just there not supposed to date at all. He would bring him every Sunday to see my sister. I would sit in a room every Sunday. If she wanted to go in a place, I had to go with her. So he was driving, my husband, I mean, at that time my boyfriend was driving a car and we just fell in love with each other. So that's how it happened. It wasn't something planned, it wasn't intention. It was just being there with her and he was there with his cousin and that's how it started. | 39:19 |
Chris Stewart | How long did you court? | 40:27 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | About two years. Two years. | 40:29 |
Chris Stewart | Did you marry here? | 40:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 40:32 |
Chris Stewart | In Scotland Neck? | 40:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, in Scotland Neck. Well, it's Halifax County a place called Parama. That's where I got married in that area. That's where I was living at that particular time. | 40:35 |
Chris Stewart | How long did you live in the house that you say in your mind was your home? | 40:50 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I think we lived there about six or seven years, maybe. It's a possibility. | 40:55 |
Chris Stewart | Then did you go move to work for a different landowner for a different farmer? | 41:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, after we moved from there, we lived on three other farms, three other areas and I just resent that. I got older. I said, "I know it's something better in life than this. I resent this. I will not do this in the long—" And I think that's one of the reasons why I got married because I said, "This is too much like a slave." Out here farming, getting nothing, seeing my mother pull the cotton bags and shaking peanuts, not making any money, not doing that. I said, "There got to be something better for me than this." And I refused the day, the last time I picked cotton, which I never was a good—Couldn't pick cotton at all. Never could. Because I always resented, always thought of myself as a slave. And I said, "I am nobody's slave and I wouldn't do a good job." | 41:11 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And I said the last—That's right. I did it on purpose. I said, "This will be my last day to pick cotton." That particular day, it rained, the sun shined, it snowed a little. Very, very cold. I said, "This is my last time." And it was my last time. I said, "If I do it now someplace out there, I just pick a bull—" I resent it to the end till now. And I said, "I'm going to do something better with my life." I do not down my father, my mother, this all they knew. I love them for teaching me how to make my life better. They was doing all they knew and I love them for that but I had a better choice in life. I was not going to live that way and I refused to live that way. So I moved, I got married and I left. | 42:19 |
Chris Stewart | What did your boyfriend now husband offer you? What did you see in him or what did he offer for you as a way out? I mean what— | 43:21 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Well, just him. Just him. | 43:35 |
Chris Stewart | What was it about him? | 43:39 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I just loved him. His personality. He made me laugh. He was a very outgoing person that I wasn't the outgoing person. And he and my sister, those two was the outgoing two people. And I just loved being around him and her because they made me alive and I enjoyed being around. So that was one of the things. He was gentle. He was a very caring person and he respect me. As of today, still the same way and he's still very gentle, very patient. He had a lot of love and a lot of patience for me. | 43:40 |
Chris Stewart | Sounds like a wonderful man. | 44:25 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | He is and I used to take him for granted, but I was talking to Dorothy and I said, "You know I've been taking my husband for granted for many years because that's all I knew." I didn't know any other change until you hear other people. And I said, "I really began to thank God for my husband because he is special and he's special. He's a good husband. Very good husband. Very good father. He love us dearly. He love his family. He's a family man." | 44:26 |
Chris Stewart | What kinds of values do you think that your parents instilled in you? You touched on this just a little bit earlier, things that you took or have taken into your adulthood that you feel were really important parts of who you are? | 45:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My mother mostly, which my father did also in his way. But my mother was very verbal with her talk to respect yourself, to be proud of yourself regardless of what circumstance it is. She had so much love. The love my mother had for mankind, I can never forget it. She had enough love for her family, her children, plus many, many, many other children, young people, and family. She was there when anybody needed her. She had that true love like we say, we love now. Oh, this not the love my mother had. The type of love we have is not what my mother had. She had real true love and she just taught so many things that she said that at the time she was saying it I wasn't really paying too much attention. But as each year goes by, I can think of some of the things my mom said. My mother said this and my mother said that, do this this way. She had lots of wisdom. Lots of wisdom and she used it and she shared it. She was a giving— | 45:26 |
Chris Stewart | At what point did you feel like people started treating you like an adult woman? What point did you think that you became an adult woman? | 0:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | To be honest, when I became an adult—As I said, my cousin and I, we used to play together. When I came in womanhood, that's when I started getting respect as a woman because I demand it. I demand that. My father used to tell me he used to love us to comb his hair and he had just brushed the pimples in his face and smooth, just rub on his face. He was that touching person. He was loving. He used to love to hug my mom, that's where we get the hugging from. | 0:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My mom is not that much of a hugger but my father loved to hug and loved to kiss and that's where most of my family got that part from him. And he would want me to comb his hair and just scratch the danders out of his hair and I would sit on the floor and he would lay his head down on a pillow and I would just scratch. And when I came into womanhood I said, "No, daddy, I can't do this anymore." And that's when I started demanding respect. Treat me as a woman now. And that's when it really started. | 0:56 |
Chris Stewart | So you left. How old were you when you left? | 1:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 16. | 1:37 |
Chris Stewart | Oh my. | 1:37 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 16. But I do not regret it one moment. I don't think that I could have had a better life if I had waited 35. Maybe more mature and, at that time, I was very mature and my mother taught us how to have a lot of wisdom about life and I think I had that. I don't think I could have had—Well, maybe I could have because, with age, you do get more mature with age. | 1:42 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But you have to—Not to cut you off but you have to look at the times. During that time, when you were 16, you had a lot of wisdom because you were taught good value systems. | 2:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. That's true. | 2:26 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Today, they're not teaching value systems, so you don't have it. | 2:31 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's true. That's true. | 2:33 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And you had a father and a mother who were one. They were on accord. Your mother did not go against your father's wishes. | 2:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's true. | 2:47 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You said they settled bad differences. Whatever she had to say to your father, you would've never known that because it was said to them in the privacy of their bedroom at night. At 16, you may have been chronologically 16 but then, when you look at what had been put into you, at that particular time, your mother and father could have died that day and you would've been able to make it. | 2:48 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's true. That's true. | 3:16 |
Chris Stewart | Did you move directly to DC? | 3:18 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I stayed down here for about two months and then I moved to DC. | 3:20 |
Chris Stewart | How was that? | 3:29 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, to move from a little small area like this, when—Oh, God. | 3:31 |
Chris Stewart | When was this? When did you move, about? | 3:38 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I moved in '57. | 3:40 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 3:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | 1957. I moved there and, to get there, and the people wasn't friendly. I used to say, God, I want to go back home. I want to go back home because you would speak to people, they look right at you and wouldn't open their mouth. The atmosphere wasn't what I wanted, what I was used to, what I was accustomed of. And I wasn't comfortable there until maybe about three years. | 3:46 |
Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 4:16 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. Yeah. But I soon got adjusted to it. | 4:16 |
Chris Stewart | What did your husband do? | 4:20 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | He worked at a market. He always worked at markets, at food chains, places. That's mostly his job. | 4:22 |
Chris Stewart | What market did he work at? | 4:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | When he first went there, the name of the market was, would you believe it, Carolina Market. It was owned by some Jews and the name of it was Carolina Market. It was like an open air market. Very small. Very, very small. And he started there. Oh, God, I remember that, when he first started out, he didn't know anything about working in the market too much because he always was a farmer and he had ended up cleaning fish. That's one of the things I did not like. He cleaned fish out in the cold, cold weather. They didn't have heat in the area that he was, before they build a new store, like these little moms and pop markets. That's where he started out. And I used to say, oh, God, I moved from North Carolina another condition, on a farm, working hard. | 4:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Come here, my husband got to work hard. I didn't ever work. He always wanted me to stay home and keep a home for my children because we always talked about, we just didn't think it was fair to children to come home from school and mom's not there. God blessed us that I did not have to work. And I think it was Carolina, beautiful. I moved with my sister-in-law when I first went to Washington. Stayed there after my first child was born. Stayed there maybe about three months after she was born. And I said every family need to be on their own. I went out and found the apartment and I went by the store, I said come on honey, you have to go and sign some paper. I'm not working. Come and sign this paper. Sign paper for what? | 5:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I said I found an apartment and we lived in that apartment for nine years. Beautiful apartment. I had it just like my grandfather. Everything immaculate, everything was in place. People used to come off the street and just look at my old apartment because I enjoyed there. I really enjoyed there. And then, after I stayed there for nine years, I moved. I did the same thing. I said it's time to get out on your own again. I went looking for a home and our first home. He was working again and I told him, I said I'm out looking for a house. And so, we went for settlement and everything, we brought that home. We still have the home there. My daughter's living in it. | 6:37 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, really? How many kids did you have? | 7:29 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I have three. | 7:30 |
Chris Stewart | Three. | 7:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Three. | 7:30 |
Chris Stewart | Are they all still living at home? | 7:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I have two. My two daughters. I gave birth to two and I adopted my son. Yeah. | 7:31 |
Chris Stewart | I'd like to take you back, just for a little bit again, to talk about the church and church activity in this area when you were growing up. Did you belong to a church in Scotland Neck? In this area? | 7:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. I belong to Shiloh Baptist Church. That's in Scotland Neck. | 7:58 |
Chris Stewart | First of all, how often? Was church every Sunday or did it rotate? | 8:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | It rotate. | 8:10 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 8:10 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | It rotate. | 8:11 |
Chris Stewart | And how often then did you go? Once a month? | 8:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. Mostly. Yes. About once a month. | 8:17 |
Chris Stewart | Did they have any other activities? Did the church have any activities? | 8:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah, they had lots of activity there. I think about, often now, the house that I was talking about, I used to walk there at church, by myself, because they had vocation class there during the summer and I just couldn't wait to get there because they had all this activity. They had arts and craft. That's how I start, my arts and craft, because they showed you how to do so many little different things there. And I remember that more so than anything else because I enjoy there. I would walk there early morning, whenever start, and I walked back home by myself every day for a week. And I enjoyed that. | 8:26 |
Chris Stewart | Was this in the summer? | 9:21 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, in the summer. After school's out. | 9:21 |
Chris Stewart | Were your parents active in the church? Did they have any specific role in the church? | 9:28 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Not to my remember. I can't say. My mother and dad used to go to Tillery Chapel when I was very, very young, before we moved where I was talking about, up there. I remember them going to church regular there in Tillery Chapel. That's where the castor factory is now. It was a church there and I couldn't wait for Sunday to get there. Show off my little dresses. I enjoyed going there, also, with my family. That was the church they belonged to. | 9:39 |
Chris Stewart | One of the people that we've talked to told us that they would go to church every week but they'd go to a different church. | 10:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, that's true. That's true. They stay— | 10:20 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Everybody have their basic church and, normally, basic church down here is once a month and then, the other Sundays, you go to another church but you work in those other churches just like if— | 10:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You was a member of that. | 10:36 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That church. | 10:37 |
Chris Stewart | Do you remember the pastor when you were— | 10:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, God. No. I'm not going to sit here. | 10:43 |
Chris Stewart | I don't mean his name. | 10:47 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, yeah. | 10:49 |
Chris Stewart | I mean what he was like. | 10:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, yes. Yeah, I'm not good at remembering names. | 10:50 |
Chris Stewart | We don't ask you to do that. | 10:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, I do remember. He was a very caring person. He really was very concerned about the people that went there. He was very loving. That's what I remember about him. | 10:56 |
Chris Stewart | Did he visit people often? | 11:13 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | He didn't visit my home. I put it that way. I can't say, really, because I was on the outskirts of the town and that church was in town. It's a possibility he visited the people in that area. | 11:16 |
Chris Stewart | Right. In the place that you think of as home, were there any people in that immediate area that you, besides your mother and father, that you really looked up to? That were really important to you? | 11:29 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Not so much in that area. My aunt. I looked up to her a lot but she was living in Mary's Chapel. | 11:51 |
Chris Stewart | What was it about her? | 12:06 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Her value in life, although my mother gave us good value in life, but she was one of the ones who graduated from high school. Her education background was very great. Very broad. She was a very loving person and always wanted two girls. She had two but she later had one. And just, in her life, she was a role model for me, other than my mom. | 12:10 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Was that [indistinct 00:12:46]? | 12:46 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | No. Julia May. You don't know her. And that's one too. That's another aunt that I loved. My father's sister. She was the only sister he had. She had wisdom way back. She is the one that was able to help my mother with the wisdom my mom had because she was my dad's older sister. They lived in her home and my mom and her was very close and she just was refined. As a senior citizen, she was very refined. She could wear heels this high. | 12:48 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I talked about that. She made you feel comfortable. | 13:34 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes. | 13:37 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | There's some people who can just make you feel comfortable. | 13:37 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. You walk into her home, she got to find something for you to eat. And I have a problem with this. My children get after me about this now, when anybody walk in my home, I want to give them something. I want to share what I have with them. I want to, here take this, and my daughter said, mom, you have to stop doing this. Many times people don't want things. They just take it just because you're being nice. She said you stop doing that. And I said maybe she could be right about that. Then I said, no, I'm not going to stop. That's not me. | 13:38 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That's southern hospitality. That's what we got used to. | 14:14 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 14:15 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And I wrote that in my book. She asked you earlier, how did they make it doing shared raffling and she said you went to somebody else and got something. This is the way they made it. | 14:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | This one killed hogs, that they share what they had. In your garden, your sugar, your flour, you run out, go ask whoever, next door neighbor, go ask your aunt to send me a cup of sugar, cup of flour. And we just shared with each other. The love was there. If we did not have the love, we wouldn't have had anything. The bonding of love was there and that's how we went. | 14:33 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Little money but a lot of love. | 15:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Lot of love. That's right. | 15:03 |
Chris Stewart | That's the motto. Yeah. | 15:03 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 15:09 |
Chris Stewart | Can you remember, when you were growing up in this area, any event that shook the community? That there was an event once, in Charlotte, we were talking to some people of Charlotte, they remembered a river flooding and several children were killed and the people who we talked to were the same age as those children when they died and they each relay different stories about how they remembered that. Do you remember anything? Any event or incident that just really rocked the community? | 15:10 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, here in Norfolk area, the river ran over. | 15:51 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Flood. | 16:01 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | The flood. | 16:01 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Was it 30 to 40 fields? | 16:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 16:04 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | 40 to the flood. | 16:04 |
Chris Stewart | You were very young. | 16:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, I was very young then. But I do remember my mother talking about it. The people was on top of their house. | 16:06 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | They're still talking about it. | 16:11 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. And that was an incident that I don't think nobody will forget that time. Many animals got drowned. I don't remember. Do you remember anybody saying that life was taken? | 16:12 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, they made it out, I heard. I didn't heard the story like it was yesterday. | 16:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | But my husband, expert in that, he was living down there. | 16:40 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | They came in with boats. | 16:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. | 16:46 |
Chris Stewart | Who's they came in? | 16:46 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | All the people that was in area. | 16:47 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | The people living in the area. | 16:49 |
Chris Stewart | The rescue. | 16:51 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | To rescue them. | 16:52 |
Chris Stewart | Did your husband's family lose— | 16:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. They didn't lose. I guess they lost some of their animals and things. | 16:56 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Personal property. | 17:04 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Property. But they rebuild and got everything back together. But that's one incident. And the incident that I remember, when Hurricane Hazel, I think it was Hurricane Hazel, we had to relocate, go into one of the schools for shelter, because the wind was terrible. It went on for a week, almost, the Hurricane Hazel. And that was an incident that I can remember. That I experienced. It wasn't a good experience. No. | 17:07 |
Chris Stewart | Did people lose houses and things when that happened? | 17:43 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I don't remember anybody losing—Well, some things did collapse. | 17:47 |
Chris Stewart | Roofs or something? | 17:51 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. Yeah, it did. | 17:52 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Tree fell on it. | 17:53 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Tree. Yeah. | 17:54 |
Chris Stewart | How did you get news? How did you find out about either local news or county news? | 17:58 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | On the radio. We didn't have TV, so we had to listen at the radio. At one point, if one didn't have radio, luckily we was blessed, we had a radio, so some of the neighbors would come to our house and get the news and I think we were the first in that area to get a TV. We would share. My mom made it very comfortable for whoever to come and just sit. Everybody would just sit down on the floor and listen to the news. | 18:03 |
Chris Stewart | That was my next question, is were there gathering places where people got the news? Your household— | 18:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My household. | 18:48 |
Chris Stewart | Was one of these gathering places where people came. | 18:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | My household was one of the place that my mother loved to entertain. She would have her friends over and it was seven of us. We would have our friends, all at one time. And my brother he always was in all type of sports and he had all type of equipment out in the yard. And I remember, that same home that I'm talking about, lots of people just come there and we would just get together. Mama'd get in the kitchen, cook all kinds of food. We would eat and have fun. We had a record player, we would get out and dance and anything that anybody could do, they will share their talent with one another. That's why I called that my home, as a young person. That's my home. | 18:49 |
Chris Stewart | One of the questions that—Sure. | 19:39 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | What I've learned about them here is that, during a depression, and I said this all the time, my mother and I were in the best place because you may not have had no money but you can survive without money. But you cannot survive without food. They didn't have any money but they always ate well. You see, when you think about it now, if you go buy a T-bone steak, everybody had a smokehouse and my grandfather's smokehouse was loaded. | 19:43 |
Chris Stewart | Loaded. | 20:16 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Down. When you compare 1993 to the thirties and you think these people got a smokehouse loaded down full of meat, they've got a garden outside, they've got a roof over their head. What more do you need? | 20:18 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's true. | 20:37 |
Chris Stewart | Did your mother preserve or can? | 20:38 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Oh, yes. | 20:40 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Yes. | 20:40 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | We called it the pantry. We would go in there, you can pick up anything you want, you could eat anything any time. It wasn't no problem about eating. | 20:42 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That's why I say, and this is what most people don't realize about the whole south, that they were poor but it's according to where your value system lies. And we are from—Can't think of the name. A capitalistic system. In a capitalistic system, thinking about the almighty dollar bill. But, hey, what do you need to survive on that dollar bill. If there's no bread and you've got a dollar bill but there's no bread to buy. That dollar bill is nothing. | 20:55 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Nothing. | 21:37 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | From the standpoint of our ancestors and our mothers and fathers, when you look at it, just the basic economics of what do you need to make it, they had it, so they were rich. Even though, from our system, we were considered very poor. But when you look at just the basics of life, food, they made their own clothes, we won't talk about that, but they had everything that you needed to survive. Consequently, during the depression, they lived well. | 21:39 |
Chris Stewart | One of the questions that I raised when Leslie and I were at the senior citizens meeting on Tuesday. | 22:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Tuesday. | 22:35 |
Chris Stewart | One of the questions we asked you to think about is one of the questions that we might raise tomorrow is we know, when I say we, I mean historians and students of history, have a good sense of how the lines of segregation were drawn in urban areas. The signs, the Jim Crow signs, the places where you knew you weren't supposed to go, the neighborhoods, Black neighborhoods. We don't have that sense of what it was like in a rural area, about how the lines of segregation were drawn. Do you have any sense of how they were drawn in the area that you grew up in? | 22:36 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. | 23:24 |
Chris Stewart | Can you talk a little bit about that for me? | 23:25 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes, I do. We could not go to restaurant. If you had two doors, the same building, one was labeled White, the other Colored, not Black but Colored. You could not go sit down and eat a decent meal on that side. If you were in a store, they would wait on the White first before they wait on Black. When I say they, the White man, would make sure the White was taken care first before the Black. You couldn't go to the movies. We had a movies here in Scotland Neck, the Black had to go upstairs, the White downstairs. The little area was very small and tight. We had to go up flights of steps to go upstairs. We couldn't sit beside them. We couldn't drink water beside them. We couldn't go to church where they go attend. We couldn't do a lot of things that they couldn't. Nothing really, to be honest. Only thing— | 23:28 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You knew your place. | 24:58 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. Only thing they allow you to do, go into their home and clean their home and that's one of the things I could not understand. If you don't want to be around me or my family, why you allow my mom in your house to wash your clothes, to cook your food but, if you go out any place else, they would die first before they sit beside you or they'll kill you. | 25:00 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | One of those things I resented, I got angry about that. I know of a time my mother to go in the plantation homes, the man, the farm we lived on, and prepare a meal for them. And yet, still, they wouldn't allow her to go sit beside her in the movies. They let her take care of their children but couldn't stand if we any place else. That I couldn't understand. And it used to bother me as a child. I know now but, as a child, I could not understand it. And I got angry many, many days. I got angry deep down in me. | 25:33 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I got beaten. My mother brought me there, I didn't know you weren't supposed to talk back to the White man. I didn't know that. And Mr. Wells told my granddaddy, Pony, send that boy here. I said who in the hell? I didn't say hell because I was little. I said, who in the heck do they think he talking to? Ain't this child. | 26:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You don't— | 26:42 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I didn't know. | 26:42 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That you couldn't. | 26:42 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, I didn't know. My mother beat me and said, Lord, let me get this child back to Boston. But, basically, Blacks knew their place and they had something that I'll say that we don't have today. They had mother wit. They had good common sense and they knew what they had to do to survive. That's it. They just knew what did they—I'm not saying they liked it, in which I know they didn't, but it's the survival of the fittest and they knew what they had to do to survive under the conditions of that day and time. | 26:48 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And they did it very well. | 27:39 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | That's right. | 27:41 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Very well. This young generation today. No way. | 27:43 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | They don't have good common sense. See, you can make it. You don't need the education. I'm not saying that you don't need education but, to make it, you need good common sense. | 27:48 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You're right. | 28:05 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You need good common sense. And, see, they knew how to get what they wanted from the plantation owner or the farm owner. That's simple mother wit. | 28:07 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 28:19 |
Chris Stewart | Can we talk a little bit more about this because I know that you're at—Obviously, I have something to learn here. And you're saying mother wit and people knew how to do what they needed to do. Can you talk to me a little bit about what mother wit—I know- | 28:22 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | What is mother wit. | 28:44 |
Chris Stewart | Right. And what did people do? We oftentimes hear about this in the broad general ways but I'd like, if you can, to talk about it in more specific— | 28:45 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I'll briefly, then you can take over from there. Many times they wouldn't allow themself or their children to say certain things, talk back too much, because they knew this was their livelihood. I always said of being afraid but it wasn't afraid. This is how they had to survive. They had to not do certain things, not say certain things to survive and that's how I consider them having good mother wit because they knew when not to and they knew what to say and what not to say. | 29:02 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And let me say this. Today, we, as Blacks, still do this, and I have to catch myself. Another form my mother wit was, and I'm going back to slavery too and to today, they never looked a White person in the eye. And the reason they did that was because, see, if I looked you in the eye, you could tell what I'm thinking about but, if I look down on the floor and everywhere else, you don't know what I'm thinking about. | 29:48 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | And if I let you think that you are superior to me then I'm done. We're going to get along just well and, if I got sense enough to say yes sir, yes boss, we'll get along just well and you do what you have to do. I don't care what culture you are in, what situation. Self-preservation is the first rule of nature and the mother with the head sense enough to know how to survive, to get along in that particular situation, whatever it took, this is what they did. | 30:22 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. Here comes the follow-up question. Then, I understand what you're saying when you talk about these examples of mother wit. You were talking about your mother and the values that you felt like she instilled in you, how did she or your father differentiate when you were then in your house and away from the White people that you came in interaction with and knew and learned a certain way to interact, because you had to get by? How did they instill in you something different? Because you've talked about this over and over again about how important you feel you are and how did they communicate that to you? | 31:06 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Can I say something? I think each generation is a little bit more rebellious than the generation that preceded them. Now, the slave masters preferred to have—Believe it or not, when slavery first started, the first generation or the second generation of Afro-Americans born in the United States, because they could control them better than the ones that was— | 31:56 |
Chris Stewart | The native Africans. | 32:33 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | From Africa. But as the generations started going down, of native born Afro-Americans or African Americans, then they saw what the White man had and they wanted it. But they still had sense. See, you got to have good common sense. And, even though they took us out of our natural habitat, which was Africa, you cannot—Innate is something that's inborn. You can't take what's put into you, you can't take that out. Now, her mother puts something into her. She rebelled in certain instances. But, now, if you look at her today, and I was telling my little cousin, she's a carbon copy of her mama. | 32:35 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, really? | 33:27 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Look at her house. | 33:27 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, you must— | 33:27 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | You see what I'm saying? Mama clean, mama—And you talked about—I don't care if you're Black, White, yellow or green. You a carbon copy of—Just little carbon copies. | 33:33 |
Chris Stewart | The reason why I ask is because it sounds like you were really walking a fine line. Oftentimes. | 33:49 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Not really. | 33:56 |
Chris Stewart | Really? | 33:57 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I don't think so. But you can answer that. I don't think so. To me, it's not a fine line. See, now even though I was born in Maryland, I was down there every summer. See, once you learn how you're supposed to do what you're supposed to do, you can do it. I didn't say you have to like it. | 34:00 |
Chris Stewart | Right. | 34:19 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But you learn how to do it and you learn how to adjust to it. You see, because once you left the man, you go back home to your little area and you just learned how to do it where you had love. | 34:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | When I think back, I don't think I had to walk no fine line at all because my generation, my sister, one older than I am and my next one, at that time, you talk about getting rebelled, we rebelled against anything. And, because my daddy was such a strong person, we was very strong and we just didn't take some things. I just didn't do some of the ways that other people was doing. We just didn't do it because my father didn't do it. He lived in his own farms but he demanded respect. I still say that. And that's where we demand respect. | 34:37 |
Chris Stewart | What things didn't you do that you thought other people did? | 35:26 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I didn't go around saying yes sir, no sir and all that. I would not do that. And my daddy couldn't deal with that but I didn't do it. That was one of my ways of saying, no, I'm not going to take this. It's something better in life that I don't have to take, that nobody's saying no, yes sir, to my daddy. Not little young girl, yes ma'am and no ma'am, and young boy, yes sir. My father saying this to him. I'm saying, no, I'm not going to do it. And I didn't do it. I refused to do it. And, tell you the truth, they knew I wouldn't do it and they respected me, too. On that farm, when it came to do anything that they expect one of my father's children to do it, they would ask daddy to let me do it because I would not go around and saying no yes sir, no sir to him. Yes and no. | 35:30 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | And I just feel like a lot is what you allow people to do. Some of the things, yes, they didn't have no control over because this all they knew and that's how they survived. But, in spite of that, my father was real strong and they did not treat him the way they was treating some of the other ones that allowed them to say anything to them. He was one of the strongest men on that farm. That taught me how to talk up for myself. My mother always said look a person straight in the eyes. That's one thing I taught my children. When you talking, you look a person straight in their eyes and my mom taught us that. That was one of my values, too. | 36:33 |
Chris Stewart | I don't have any other questions but I would like to ask you if you have anything that you think needs to be on this tape. This recording. | 37:32 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You got so much history. | 37:45 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No, the only thing I would say is that not all White people were bad. | 37:49 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. | 37:55 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | There were good White people because if there were not good White people, the Emancipation Proclamation would've never happened. I think that you have to judge people for who they are. And, in certain times in history, certain things happened. Blacks have not been the only group of people that have been oppressed. I will say that the White man has been a treacherous person from the day that he was born. But then you can't say all of them because there was some good ones and there was some good ones before the Emancipation and there was some very good White people down here in Halifax County since the Emancipation. | 37:57 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I could not group all of them. I would say that I'm like the Jews now, before this'll ever happen to us again, I'll be buried in my grave and I will let succeeding generations—We have to know where we came from to know where we are going and I will let succeeding generations in my family know what happened to my great-grandfather during slavery. My mother is living. My mother knew her grandfather, who was a slave. My aunt is living. She knew her father, who was a slave. You see. I will let my children and my grandchildren know it and I'll tell them, before we be a slave again, we'll all be buried in our grave. And we have to be like the Jews, in terms of the Holocaust, that this will never happen again. | 38:54 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yeah. I, too, agree that everybody's not the same and I think we need to value each person of their own and not judge everybody. Put everybody in the same basket because there good in everybody and there's— | 39:58 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Blacks sold other Blacks into slavery. | 40:23 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Slavery. That's true. | 40:26 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | But even though it was a different—See, they had a caste system over there in African, too, but I'm not going to go into that. | 40:30 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, I've taken a lot of African history. | 40:34 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | I'm not going to go into that but I don't think they ever imagined, that they thought it would be more like the indentured servants. | 40:37 |
Chris Stewart | More like their own. | 40:43 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | Yeah. | 40:47 |
Chris Stewart | Which was not- | 40:48 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | It was nothing like what happened here until, like I said, until the White man found out. It was a business. It was a business. It was a good money making business. | 40:49 |
Chris Stewart | Was there anything else, Ms. Moore, that you feel you should have on this? | 41:00 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | First of all, I would love for the people, as general, to be a unit and get together and start not picking the person because they White, because they Black, Jews. Begin to respect each person according to who they are. Not what race, not where they came from or what else. Or learn to love one another and how that true love, and when I say true love, I mean God's love, not man love. We love today. We maybe love tomorrow and you make me mad. There's violence start. I'm talking about the love that can be able to understand and, still, if something occur that you do not like, that you still can love. That type of love. And try to understand one another. Try to get along with it one another better than what we are doing. Try to teach our children the value of life, the true love. And start having role models for our young people because the young people, today, are living in a terrible time. | 41:17 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I would not want to be in their day. I really wouldn't because they don't have anybody to look up to now. They just don't. It has been a time they looked up to their teacher. Teachers doing everything they doing. They looked up to the President, can't trust him anymore. Looked up to the policemen, they doing everything. They doing everything to be done. And the preacher. How you look at TV, there's no moral standing there anymore. No moral whatsoever. The TV need to be cut out with all this filth on TV and violence on TV. And then they complain about the young people. They are putting it right there before them and they expect them to live another life when they're already inviting them to all this violence, inviting them all this—What could these young people—The older people sell them the drug, they sell them whiskey, they looking at all this, what can they do? There's no role model for the young people. | 42:36 |
Chris Stewart | Do you feel like you had role models to look up to when you were— | 43:53 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Yes. Yes. Even the parents, nowadays. There's a lot of young parents and they are out there doing any and everything, so the children don't have—I had my parents as a role model. That's my first role model. My teachers was my second one. And then the preacher, he was the next one. But you hear talking, the preachers out raping and doing all kind of violent things. The young people don't have nothing. They are our future and if we don't try to mold them today, what's going to happen tomorrow? What's going to happen? And they're going down a dark, dark, lonely road, as far as I'm concerned, and we adults need to get busy. Need to get very, very busy and try to steer our young people back in the right direction because we are contributing. We're contributing. | 43:57 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | But adults, they're so busy, they're wrapped up in their own world. I used this phrase, maybe I shouldn't say it, but I used this phrase, God have blessed us too much, that we don't have the love. When we was living in that house with no running water and no plumbing and nothing, we had love. All kinds of love. Now, everybody's doing a little better and there's no love there. They ready to point their finger at everybody but themself. We need to start pointing our finger at ourself. Get our life together, search ourself and see where we are going, what direction are we going, and if we going in the right direction, these young people have a right direction to follow. | 44:59 |
Chris Stewart | They have role models. | 45:50 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | That's right. That's right. But it's not too many. It's not too many role models. | 45:51 |
Chris Stewart | You're an inspiration. | 45:56 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | Thank you. Thank you. | 45:58 |
Chris Stewart | You are. | 45:59 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | I just really think about these young people so. I just feel so sorry for them because it's so much temptation out there. | 46:02 |
Detrica Cheryle Hogan Royster | No values. | 46:12 |
Mildred Edmond Moore | You've got to be a strong, strong young person to be able to survive. No value. | 46:12 |
Chris Stewart | I have two more things I need to do. One is bibliographic information, basically, of you and it's a form and it's basically just more questions but it's questions about — | 46:23 |
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