Alfreda Brown interview recording, 1993 August 05
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Alfreda Brown. | 0:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Maybe we could begin by you telling me a little bit about the community, where you grew up, and the people you grew up with. | 0:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I grew up in a small community called Spring Garden, and I lived on a, what you'd call a sharecropper's farm with my mother and father. | 0:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have any sisters and brothers? | 0:32 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I had one brother and four sisters. | 0:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, was Spring Garden an agricultural community? | 0:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes, it was. Tobacco, corn, soybeans. And we didn't have too much money, so we shared work. We exchanged work with each other. And folks that had large families, they was the one that came out at the big end of the horn because they had more people to—they exchanged work in small families. | 0:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 1:10 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But we enjoyed it and it was a lot of fun. | 1:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now you say you were sharecroppers. Whose farm did you work on? | 1:16 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, it was called the [indistinct 00:01:24] farm. | 1:24 |
Karen Ferguson | And what was your arrangement with the White farmer? What did you provide and what did he provide on your sharecropping farm? | 1:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, my father was a little different from the other farmers. The other farmers used their landlords' farming utensils, but my daddy used his own, so he got two thirds of what he raised on his farm, the money. But the others got just one half. | 1:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember anything about your grandparents? | 2:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, my grandmother lived with my mother and father and their family until I was 10 years old. Then she went to live with her daughter. But now if she was here, she could really tell you something because I enjoyed talking with her because she told me a lot. | 2:19 |
Karen Ferguson | What do you remember her telling you? Do you remember her talking about her childhood? | 2:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. Her father was a slave, but her mother wasn't, so I don't think she was either. | 2:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember anything about your father's family? | 3:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, well. Yes, I remember my father's family. I know his father was 112 years old when he died. So that's something we don't have too much of now, folks living that long. But we enjoyed all of it and thanks to the Lord, I lived through it and lived to tell it. I'm 78 years old. | 3:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you talked about people sharing work. What would they do? What farm work would they share? | 3:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, that was what they had to do, or putting in tobacco, chopping, or whatever. | 4:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. And were these other sharecropping families? | 4:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes, they were. | 4:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And were they all working on the same farm? On the same man's farm? | 4:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. Yes. And they'd help us and we'd help them, and then at the end of the week, we would figure up every man's part and they would come out on the other while. Well, they wouldn't use your pad. They would just go ahead and pick it up on something else and some other time. | 4:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So at the end of the week, the sharecroppers among themselves would decide who had made more— | 5:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right. Right. | 5:14 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. Did you get some kind of payment from the landowner at the end of the week as well? | 5:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. Uh-uh. | 5:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I'm sorry. So how would the landowner pay you? | 5:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he usually would stay out of it. He didn't have anything to do with it. | 5:32 |
Karen Ferguson | But was there a time during the year when you got paid for your years crop or? | 5:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, yes. When you sold in the fall. Usually in the fall, that's when you sold all your farming things, tobacco and corn and all that. And this time you settled up and you paid the landlord what you owed him, and then when they settled up, what was coming to you, he'd pay you and that's where you got your money from so that was about it. | 5:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | And of course, during the school year, why the Black children walked to school, the White rode, and it's a little different from that now, as you know. And when they passed by us walking, they'd throw spitballs on us and called us all kinds of names, but through it all, we made it. | 6:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Did the Black children retaliate? Did they do their own name calling and— | 6:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Some did and some didn't. | 7:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, when you settled up, were you able to sell your own crops or did the landowner sell the crops for you? | 7:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, he sold it for us. He had to be there. Yeah, he had to be there. | 7:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think you got a fair price for your crops? | 7:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, yes. Our price was about as fair as anybody else's. Yeah. We got a fair price. But when the landlord was there, why they said, "This is Mr. Malone's tobacco, give him a good price, give him a good price." And you usually got a good price when they'd come out with that. | 7:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, when you shared some of this work, did you have any kind of celebrations or have a good time together while you were doing it? | 7:46 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, what we would do, we'd grade tobacco in the daytime and then we could tie at nights. And we'd have what you called the tobacco tying. Then we'd serve sodas and cookies and things like that and everybody be glad to get out to a tobacco tying. | 8:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you enjoy that? Do you remember that? | 8:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. Yes. I enjoyed that. Yeah. There's much fun in that. | 8:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Other than having some refreshments and so on, what else did people do at tobacco tying? Did they tell stories? | 8:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes. They told stories and they sang. | 8:39 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of songs did they sing? | 8:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, spiritual. We didn't have much hillbilly stuff then. It was real nice. And sometimes, you know we raised peanuts and we'd parch peanuts at the tobacco time we'd have peanut eating, walnut cracking, and all that kind of thing. Because see, we didn't have television and radios and things like that then so we had to just make good of what we had. | 8:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, the people who shared this work with you, did they live close by to you? | 9:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah. They lived close by. | 9:49 |
Karen Ferguson | And was your family close to these people? Were they kin? | 9:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, not all of them. Some of them were. | 9:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember any people outside of your family to whom you were especially close? People you looked up to, or who looked after you. | 10:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, yes. It was a little different then it is now. When we leave our child at somebody's house now, when we picked that child up, we got to have some money to put down. But then, when we picked our child up, just "thank you" was enough. We didn't have to pay, so that was an advantage. | 10:14 |
Karen Ferguson | So people looked after each other's children. | 10:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right. Right. | 10:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, the farm owner, the landlord, did he own a very large farm? Was it a very large farm? | 10:58 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, it was huge. | 11:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you know how many acres it was or how many croppers he had on his land? | 11:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Tenants, we called them tenants. | 11:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Tenants, okay. | 11:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, I reckon he had 25 or 30. | 11:13 |
Karen Ferguson | 25 or 30. And was this his only farm? | 11:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, no, he had several farms and he had mules and horses to do his work. But now my daddy had his own horses and farming things. | 11:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember any landowners in the Spring Garden community? Black landowners? | 11:52 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, there were some, but very few. | 11:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And were you friendly with them? | 12:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. We made friends at church and at school. | 12:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, on the farm that you were on, did the landowner, how did he control your actions and what you did? Could he determine what kind of crops you grew? | 12:18 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, when you went to rent your farm, then you'd tell him how many you had in the family and how much you could tend, and that's how you would rent according to your family and how much you thought you could take care of. | 12:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you know that if he ever told people that they couldn't send their children to school because they had to stay and work in the fields? | 13:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, yes, sir. I went and asked my landlord lady if she could give me some work to do so I could buy my children something for Easter. She said, "No," says, "I don't have anything to do." Her cook was named Lily. Said, "Lily can do all I want done." I said, "All right." So then I went out and got a job on my own. So then she says, "I don't know who picked that tobacco bed, because it looked like they just went there and wrecked it from one end to the other and just waller." I said, "Well, my mama picked it." I said to her, "If I had picked it, I know I'd done a better job of waller than she did." I said, "She couldn't waller as fast as I could have." So I said it was all right the way it was picked so she couldn't stop me that way. | 13:09 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Then my husband had to take me to work and pick me up. So then the boss man was her son-in-law. So she said, "I want you to stop Tom from picking up Alfreda," says, "She's needed here on the farm." So that's what he did and so I had to stop work. | 14:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there other things like that that happened? Can you remember? | 14:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | In what respect are you— | 14:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, I'm just thinking of ways in which he could decide whether or not how prosperous you became or whether you could have certain things or, I don't know, when you worked and when you had to stop working and that kind of thing. | 14:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, yeah. They controlled all that. | 15:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 15:10 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. | 15:11 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | But she said, can you think of another example? | 15:17 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, that was about the one that struck me most. | 15:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Your daughter was telling me about a story, a few days ago, about your husband getting hurt on the farm. | 15:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. He did. He was cutting hay and the mules ran away with it and threw him off the mowing machine and he lost a leg and four or five fingers. And he didn't get anything and then they wanted to make us move. So I went in New Bern then, they had just built those housing projects, and I rented one of those, and I told her what I had done. She said, "You going to be living in a house as nice as mine." But anyway, I didn't ever move. We stayed there but he didn't get anything for his accident. | 15:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you try to get something for him, for the accident? | 16:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I did, but I didn't push it far enough. | 16:39 |
Karen Ferguson | She was also saying something about the way that he was treated when he went to the hospital, at St. Luke's Hospital. Would they treat him there? | 16:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, they treated him there but he was in the basement. | 16:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 17:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Because the White folks, they was up on top. | 17:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, could you tell me a little bit about the house that you grew up in? | 17:09 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, it was a four-room house. And of course, we didn't have no heat except in a big ole heater. And there was about, I reckon, 10 of us living in the house from time to time because we just had one boy, my daddy did. So he always had to have some boy stay to help him out with the men's work. So that always gave us some extra [indistinct 00:18:08]. | 17:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Where would these boys come from? Who would they be? | 18:14 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Usually a cousin or something. | 18:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And would they live on that same farm? | 18:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, yes. They would live with us when they was helping us farm. | 18:23 |
Karen Ferguson | But where did they come from? | 18:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Somewhere out of the communities. Kin folks. | 18:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And would your father pay them? | 18:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But he paid them at the end of the year. | 18:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 18:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | He'd give them so much. | 18:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. When did you start working in the field? | 18:50 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I reckon when I was about 8 years old. | 18:55 |
Karen Ferguson | 8 years old. And what kind of work would you do at 8 years old? | 18:59 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, chop. | 19:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. This was in tobacco or in cotton? | 19:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, mostly tobacco and corn. | 19:09 |
Karen Ferguson | What about later on when you got to be bigger, when you got to be a teenager or— | 19:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, my daddy sent me to stay with my aunt in Kinston to go to school. Because out in the rural, at that time, Black children didn't go no higher than 7th grade. So when I got in 7th grade and I had to move on up somewhere else, so I went to Kinston, stayed with my aunt and went to school. | 19:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you say you were the only girl or there were other girls? | 19:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 19:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, you were talking before about men's work. What was women's work? | 19:58 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, chopping, and then you had to replant corn. Now you have to thin it. | 20:03 |
Karen Ferguson | What was your favorite job on the farm? | 20:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Tell you the truth. I didn't have one. | 20:25 |
Karen Ferguson | You didn't like farm work? | 20:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. Not too much. | 20:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Why not? | 20:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't know if I have too much reason not to like it. Because you're kind of your own boss and you like to be boss. | 20:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now your mother, did she work on the farm as well? | 20:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. She worked on the farm too. | 21:05 |
Karen Ferguson | And did she have any other jobs, any other way of making a little bit of money? | 21:08 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, she did wash for a lady for 50 cents a week so that was the only little outside money that she got. | 21:13 |
Karen Ferguson | And how about your father? Did he ever go out, do some public work or anything like that to help? | 21:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. He didn't do that. | 21:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Did any of the men do it in that area? Any kind of public work? | 21:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, yes, some of them did. Some had large families of boys and they could let the boys go out and work. | 21:41 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. Did you ever do day work? | 21:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I guess I did. When we'd catch up on our work and other folks didn't have theirs caught up, they could hire us and we go and work for them. And you'd go to work seven o'clock and wait till twelve, and then twelve o'clock come, they'd ring a bell when you go home and you had 60 minutes to get home and get back to work and that was the dinner hour. You had to hustle. | 22:01 |
Karen Ferguson | When you went out to do that work, were you working for White farmers usually? | 22:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Usually. | 22:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Would the White farmer and his family, would they work out in the fields with you? | 22:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes. They worked too. | 22:56 |
Karen Ferguson | So side by side. How about the farmer's wife? Would she work in the field? | 22:58 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. | 23:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. How much contact did you have with White people when you were a girl? | 23:12 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Not too much. | 23:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Was it mainly working while you were working? | 23:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. Yeah. You worked with them all the week and they see you Saturday, why they wouldn't even speak to you. | 23:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Huh? So would this be out in town or something? | 23:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 23:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Did that bother you? | 23:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Not really. | 23:37 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do for fun when you were a little girl? What did you play? What games did you play and what would you do for fun? | 23:50 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Hide and go seek, ring around the roses, London bridge, and just rain games and we played some ball. Cat ball. They weren't too much fun. Because we played some Bob Jack. | 23:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What's that? What is that? Someone was talking to me about that earlier today. What is that? | 24:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Can you tell her what Bob Jack is? | 24:37 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | It's a little ball with a 10 little— | 24:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, Jack's. | 24:43 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | And you throw it up and pick up one all the way through 10. | 24:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 24:48 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Then you come back and just put ball. | 24:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 24:48 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | One down, two down. | 24:51 |
Karen Ferguson | I think I know what that is. | 24:53 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | I've got all those games myself. We played those. | 24:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | And if you didn't have one of them Bob Jacks, you just get you some peach cones or — | 25:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. Make your own. How about dolls? Did you ever have a doll? | 25:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes, I had a doll. And when you get a doll and he'd go to sleep, you had something. | 25:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Did you ever have one of those? | 25:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I did. | 25:19 |
Karen Ferguson | You did? When did you get that? | 25:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, maybe I was 8 years old when I had that. And I went to my grandmother that Christmas Day and we came back, everybody's house we passed, I was riding in a buggy, I'd hold that doll up. | 25:28 |
Karen Ferguson | What were some times of celebration during the year? | 25:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, Thanksgiving was the biggest celebration I reckon we had before Christmas. | 26:00 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | What did you do? | 26:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | We ate. That about biggest thing. We did eat. | 26:15 |
Karen Ferguson | What would you have to eat? | 26:23 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, usually Thanksgiving time the men would go out hunting. They'd get a wild turkey. | 26:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 26:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | And that was a big dish. And then you have hog killings, big hog killings. | 26:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 26:44 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. | 26:44 |
Karen Ferguson | When would that happen? When would the hog killing happen? | 26:50 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, during cold weather. You were supposed try to kill hogs little before Christmas, after Christmas. | 26:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there any rules about when you would kill the hog? | 27:10 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I really don't think so. You try to let it be cold. | 27:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, was Christmas a big time as well? A big celebration? | 27:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. Now, Christmastime I cooked about one cake. | 27:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 27:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | My mother cooked 10 or 12. | 27:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 27:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 14, 15 pies. | 27:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Huh? | 27:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, we had a celebration. | 27:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Would the whole family, would your extended family come together? Okay. | 28:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. Christmas was a big day. | 28:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you have Santa Claus? | 28:09 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, we had Santa Claus. | 28:15 |
Karen Ferguson | What about church? Where did you go to church? | 28:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, a little church in the community. It's still there. Missionary Baptist Church. It was named Rio Grande. I don't know why it's named that for the river or what, but that was the name of it and still is the name. And it still exists. And our pastor that we had when I joined that church when I was 12 years old, and he just died maybe about, I reckon about 10 years ago. But he stayed there 40 some years. | 28:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did both your mother and father go to church? Yeah. | 29:25 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Now, when my daddy married my mother, she was a Methodist, but it was kind of a problem for him to take her to church and then get to his church so she decided she'd join over with him, so she did. | 29:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 29:48 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | So they joined the same church then it's much easier. | 29:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Can you remember your baptism? | 29:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes. | 30:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Could you tell me about that day? | 30:01 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, that date? | 30:04 |
Karen Ferguson | No, the day, about your baptism? Tell me about your baptism. | 30:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, it was on one Sunday morning. We always had baptisms Sunday morning. | 30:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 30:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | And, let's see. It was in September when I was baptized and it was cold that day. | 30:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 30:29 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Yes, he is. We enjoy him. He's been having a good time. Mother is—she's being interviewed right now and she can't come to the phone. She can call you back. | 30:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you afraid? | 30:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. Uh-huh. I wasn't afraid. | 30:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Was it in a river? | 30:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes, in the river. Spring Garden River. Do you know where the— | 30:46 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | And mother is being interviewed. It is. | 30:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | —new school is down here to the river? Spring garden River. | 31:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 31:10 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I was baptized down there. | 31:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Yeah. | 31:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But Lord, you couldn't be baptized there now. The boats and all will take your head off. | 31:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 31:24 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But we have our own place to baptize in church now. We have a new church now. | 31:28 |
Karen Ferguson | During the baptisms would people come from outside the congregation to watch? | 31:36 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah, they would do that. | 31:41 |
Karen Ferguson | How about White people? Would they come, watching? | 31:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, mostly to tease you. | 31:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, tease you? | 31:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 31:49 |
Karen Ferguson | What would they do? | 31:50 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, just make fun of you and drive the boat so close to you so you think they're going run into you. | 31:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Really? Huh? What would they say? | 31:58 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, just all kind of other stuff. | 32:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Huh? What did you do? Did you ignore it or what? | 32:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, that's what we tried to do. | 32:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 32:14 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | We ignore it. | 32:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. What were some other times of celebration in the church? Did you have a homecoming or revival? | 32:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah, we had a revival and usually that was in the fall of the year. That's why we always had baptism in September. Yeah, we'd have a revival. And after revival, why you'd have baptism and join the church. And folks would come from miles and miles around to the revival. But they'd have a choice to join church where they wanted to, but they'd come to our revival and we'd go to theirs. | 32:24 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Thank you. She'll call you between now and the weekend. | 32:53 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of things were you involved in at church when you were a young girl? | 33:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, we had programs. We say recitations and have dialogues and things like that. We make our own amusements. And at school closing time, we'd have a big celebration, a big picnic and games. | 33:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you ever go to the movies or anything like that? Were there places to go to dance? | 33:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, there wasn't too much movie going, but we danced around school. | 33:50 |
Karen Ferguson | When you were at home, who was the boss, your mother or your father? | 34:08 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they shared it. | 34:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. They shared it. | 34:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. What one said the other agreed. | 34:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 34:17 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | There wasn't too much disagreeing between them. | 34:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Who took care of the money? | 34:25 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, my daddy was a money man. | 34:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What do you mean by that? | 34:27 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he loved money and he took care of the money. | 34:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. | 34:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But he always gave my mother something. | 34:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 34:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | The fall would come. He'd always give us so much money. | 34:42 |
Karen Ferguson | So would he do all the negotiating with the landlord as well? Okay. | 34:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, he was a boss man. | 34:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Who disciplined you at home? | 34:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Both of them. | 34:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Who would you rather discipline you? Your mother or your father? | 35:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, my daddy. | 35:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Why is that? | 35:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, my mother would beat you with her mouth. | 35:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 35:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | But my daddy, you'd just get him a strap and he would just lay it to you and he'd turn you loose that would be it. But Mama, she had this [indistinct 00:35:26] while, and preacher a while, so I'd rather my daddy discipline than my momma. | 35:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember a time where you got into real trouble when you were a child? | 35:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 35:41 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do? | 35:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they had a commissary, and that's where they get the food from. They didn't get money and go to the store and buy it. They had to buy what was in that commissary. And they had a great big old five gallon cans of molasses and my daddy bought a five gallon of that. And so when they went to work, we were going to have us a good time. So we was going to make molasses bread and molasses candy and everything. And we forgot and left the lid off the can and the flies got in it. Lord, have mercy. I don't know who I'd rather drop me then. | 35:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Did they buy another barrel or were they able to buy another barrel? | 36:32 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah, they got another one. | 36:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now this commissary, did you have to go there to buy your groceries? | 36:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, if you got any. | 36:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So is that the only place where you had credit to buy groceries? | 36:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, now if you wanted to and had sense on there, you could make your own arrangements. But there's always smart folks and folks that don't know how to take care, so there's still back there then. And there were some that had to depend on the landlord for what they got and then there was others that could make other arrangements. | 37:01 |
Karen Ferguson | What were some of these other arrangements? | 37:31 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, if you had sense enough, you could keep a little money. But if you was stupid, why you spend every penny to get your hands on and you wouldn't have money to do nothing with. And you'd say he was on the hog when a person couldn't take care of his self. They said, "He's on the hog. He's on the hog." When you couldn't take care of yourself, you'd say, "They's on the hog." | 37:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 38:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | So my sister went to New York and they paid the money well. She said, "I ain't on the hog no more." | 38:07 |
Karen Ferguson | If people on that farm where you were, if they wanted to buy groceries, would they ever go to another place where they'd pay cash or did they have to buy their groceries at the commissary? | 38:23 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, if they had any money, they could go other places. You could always spend your money anywhere you wanted to. | 38:38 |
Karen Ferguson | They didn't try to get you to buy at the commissary. | 38:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they wanted you to buy at the commissary. That's where they made their money. | 38:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 38:52 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | See, they'd sell you something for $50. Maybe they weren't worth maybe $25. | 38:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, if you bought your groceries on credit, did you have to pay interest on that credit? | 39:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's where they made the money. | 39:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And how much interest was it, do you know? | 39:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. All I can say it was plenty. | 39:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Were there times when your family had no money? No cash money? | 39:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, in 1929 the banks all closed down, and I think my daddy had $8 in his pocket when it closed. And he had maybe a couple of thousand in the bank but they took all that and he didn't ever get any of it back. He got a little of it back enough to buy a 12 gauge shotgun. | 39:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Was this Citizen's Bank in New Bern? | 40:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. It's Citizens Bank. | 40:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. What was he planning on doing with that money that he had in the bank, do you know? | 40:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he was going to buy a little farm and get him a house to live in when he got old. | 40:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So that was a dream of his? | 40:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. When they came through, he got it all. | 40:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. He did get it. | 40:31 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 40:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your parents? What kind of people they were? | 40:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I guess everybody would say the same thing about their people. I thought they was wonderful. I thought they were the best. | 40:44 |
Karen Ferguson | What was important to them? | 40:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, money was important to my daddy, and I reckon religion was important to Mama. Close to all those church people. | 40:59 |
Karen Ferguson | What did they want for you, for their children? What did they want for their children? | 41:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they wanted us to have an education. | 41:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Did they want you to be farmers? | 41:44 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I wouldn't think so. | 41:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Why not? | 41:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't know why not now? Because there just wasn't never too much future in farming. | 42:03 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | One reason, and you may elaborate on it, is that because they want you to get an education and people who got an education back during that time did not farm. | 42:16 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. | 42:25 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | So that was one indication that they did not want you to be farmers. And you can also let her know that your sister did go some places to school. You may want to elaborate on that. | 42:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, we all went off to school. | 42:43 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | I'm talking beyond high school. | 42:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | We had went to school but didn't do anything so great though. | 42:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that something you wanted to do as well, to go on past high school? | 43:10 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I wanted to, but I didn't. | 43:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Now why were they able to go on and you weren't? | 43:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I was kind of boy-struck. | 43:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you were? | 43:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 43:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 43:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I got married young. | 43:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. We'll get there in a minute. You can go back to that in a minute. I just wanted to ask you a little bit about some of the race relations in that time. What were some of the signs of segregation that were in your community? | 43:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, the school, I think was more prominent than anything else. | 44:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there anything else? | 44:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I can't think of anything that stood out. | 44:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. When you went into town, were there any ways in which you had to behave towards White people in order to stay out of trouble? | 44:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't know of anything like that. | 44:59 |
Karen Ferguson | When you went into town, was that New Bern? | 45:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 45:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And how often did you go into town? | 45:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, usually, maybe once a month. | 45:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Once a month. | 45:17 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 45:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you look forward to that? | 45:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes. And we'd always go to the store on Saturday. There'd always be something you had to pick up, so we'd look forward to that too. | 45:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, as far as the White people around here, do you ever remember Black people getting in trouble for Whites because the White people thought they were getting uppity or too prosperous or anything like that? | 45:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I can't remember anything like that. | 46:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember any of the people in this area getting in trouble with the police or the police harassing them? | 46:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, yes, they did get that and I think some of that's still going on. | 46:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What kinds of things happened when you were coming up? How did the sheriff or the police harass Black people? | 46:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember how they harassed Black people? | 0:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, no. I really can't remember how they did that, but I know they had faults and disagreements, things like that. | 0:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you ever remember people being sent to prison or to jail for things they really hadn't done or for very minor things? | 0:48 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. Yes. I had a first cousin they sent to prison. They said that he—well, it was about a White woman. And they sent him off. And I never did believe he did it because I didn't believe it. You couldn't say it weren't so, but I don't think he did it. | 0:57 |
Karen Ferguson | How long was he sent to prison? | 1:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Five years. | 1:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you think of any other reasons why White folks wouldn't like your cousin, why they might say that he was messing with a White woman when he really wasn't? | 1:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | They just want to get some time. | 1:53 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Sometimes they just hated them just that much. I'm just saying, probably because I didn't even know about that. | 2:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Was the Ku Klux Klan active in this area? | 2:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. | 2:25 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of things would they do? | 2:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, they'd burn skeletons in the yard. | 2:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Skeletons? | 2:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. And build crosses there and then set them on fire and all such stuff as that. | 2:40 |
Karen Ferguson | So they threw skeletons in people's yards? Is that what you said? | 2:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 2:54 |
Karen Ferguson | What kind of skeletons? Human skeletons? | 2:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. They'd just build a skeleton, something resembling a skeleton. | 2:58 |
Karen Ferguson | And on whose yards would they do this? On whose yards would they burn the crosses and throw the skeletons? | 3:08 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | The Black folks' yards. | 3:15 |
Karen Ferguson | But which Black folks? | 3:16 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I guess one that they thought was prosperous. | 3:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, the ones that they thought were prosperous? | 3:24 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 3:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember anybody in particular? You don't have to give me their name, but just somebody, what they did to make—why they were considered prosperous or— | 3:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I don't know if I can think of anybody in particular by name. | 3:36 |
Karen Ferguson | I don't need their names. Maybe we could talk a little bit about school now. Where did you go to school? | 3:52 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they had a little school up here where our church is. It was right on the church's property. And the county would build the Black folks a school. But when they weren't going to use it for school no longer, then they'd give it back to the church. And that's what they did. They gave it back to the church. But when they gave it back to the church and some of the trustees then was tearing the school down. A White man passed by and he asked me, says, "Uncle Fred, do you know what you're doing?" He said, "Yes, I think I do." He said, "Well, I hope you do." So we didn't ever hear no more about it. So I guess he knew what he was doing. But they had promised it back to the church when they didn't need it for school no more. | 4:15 |
Karen Ferguson | And what was that school called? | 5:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Rio Grande School. | 5:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Did you like school? | 5:16 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, I loved it. | 5:22 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you like about it? | 5:23 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I just enjoyed the competition. | 5:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you did? | 5:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just enjoyed it. | 5:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Which subjects did you like to compete in? | 5:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Spelling and arithmetic. | 5:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you like your teachers? | 5:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, I liked them too. I liked them too. | 5:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Were they from around here, your teachers? | 5:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right in the community. Right in the community. | 5:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember a favorite teacher? | 6:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, no. I liked them all. | 6:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, how many rooms did your school have? | 6:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Two. | 6:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Two rooms. And they went to the 7th grade? How did the teachers keep discipline in only two rooms with all those children? | 6:14 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, with a hickory stick. They did it with reading and writing and arithmetic. You're always taken care of with the hickory stick. We don't have that anymore after [indistinct 00:06:57] going to the bad. | 6:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Now after you finished up at the Rio Grande School, where did you go after that? You went to Kinston for high school? | 7:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, I went to Kinston High School. | 7:13 |
Karen Ferguson | So you moved away from home to do that? | 7:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Hmm-hmm. I stayed with my mother's sister. | 7:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that hard for you to leave home? | 7:24 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, from the outset it was, but I soon got used to it. But I always looked forward to coming home. Thanksgiving, Christmas. You have a few days to spend home. | 7:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Now did all of your sisters and brothers finish high school? | 7:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. | 7:46 |
Karen Ferguson | They did. And did they all go to Kinston for high school? | 7:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, some went to Jacksonville. That's where I graduated from, Jacksonville. | 7:49 |
Karen Ferguson | So you moved from Kinston to Jacksonville? | 7:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 7:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you like high school? | 8:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yes, I loved it. | 8:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, what was the attitude of the other children in Kinston and Jacksonville to students who came from the country? | 8:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, they'd call you country bucks and all that kind of stuff. | 8:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Would they be friends with you? | 8:18 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah, they'd be friends but still you had to put up with it. And that wasn't easy. | 8:20 |
Karen Ferguson | How were you different from the different from the town children? How did you feel different from them? | 8:31 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they usually dressed a little better than the country children. I reckon that was about the only difference. A little boy went to school one day and when he went home, he told his daddy, he says, "We got a new boy in our school," said, "he's from the country." Said, "He don't say, 'it's a big red apple'," say, "he said, 'hits a big red apple'." His daddy told, said, "You better watch that boy." Said, "Just like he learned hits a big red apple," said, "He going to learn something else." | 8:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | So his daddy went home one day and this little boy was sitting down just studying. His daddy says, "What's wrong? You're doing so much studying these days." Said, "You know that boy I told you said hits a big red apple," said, "he head of the class." And Daddy said, "I told you so." | 9:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Now did you find that was true? | 9:40 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 9:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Why do you think the country children did so well in school? | 9:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they did the best they could when they went to school. And when they got to the place, they just took in everything with [indistinct 00:09:58] lights on. They just grasped it. | 9:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were you as well prepared as the town children when you went to high school? | 10:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I thought I was. | 10:06 |
Karen Ferguson | So you didn't have any trouble with your subjects? | 10:08 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-mm. | 10:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you ever kept out of school to go to work in the field? | 10:12 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. My daddy didn't believe in that. | 10:15 |
Karen Ferguson | So your brothers weren't kept out? | 10:18 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. | 10:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you said education was important to your parents. Is that right? | 10:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 10:34 |
Karen Ferguson | How did they express that value of education? What did they do to help you in your school work? | 10:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they sent us off to school when we would finish out in any rural. When we advanced farther, they sent us stuff. So I knew it was important to them. | 10:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did many of your classmates at the Rio Grande School, did they go on? | 11:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. We had a school down in Jacksonville, it was a private school because it was run by Baptists. And when we heard tell of that school, then everybody in this area went down there to that school. That's why we were down there. And they had a dormitory. | 11:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, why did people prefer that school to the school in Kinston? | 11:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, in Kinston, that wasn't no private school. That's public. That was just public school. But down in Jacksonville, this was considered a private school because it was operated by missionary Baptists. And when we found out about that school, then that's where we went. | 11:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Was it a better school? | 12:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't know if it was any better. | 12:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your teachers ever play favorites? | 12:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes, some of them did. | 12:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Who were the favorites? | 12:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, usually the folks with the most money their favorite. | 12:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Sorry, the most what? | 12:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | With most money. | 12:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you ever remember them playing favorites on the basis of skin color? | 12:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, no, because they weren't segregated when I was born. | 12:38 |
Karen Ferguson | But among the Black students, like the lighter students, the lighter complexion students? | 12:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I think some of them did, but that was rare. | 12:48 |
Karen Ferguson | That was rare. Now, what did you do after you finished high school? | 12:52 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I got married. | 13:05 |
Karen Ferguson | You got married? Where did you meet your husband? | 13:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | In a bean patch. | 13:11 |
Karen Ferguson | In a bean patch? Will you tell me about that? | 13:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I had gone to pick beans this day. And he worked at a brickyard and the plant broke down that day, so he could have leisure. He was just walking around with some other boys. And he came out there and he saw me and he liked me, and I liked him. So it just bloomed right into a marriage. | 13:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were you working in the bean field? | 13:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, I was picking beans. | 13:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Was this in Spring Garden or—okay. How old were you when you met him? | 13:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 21. | 13:57 |
Karen Ferguson | 21? Okay. Were you still in school when you met him or? | 14:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. I had one more year. | 14:04 |
Karen Ferguson | What was your courtship like? | 14:09 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well— | 14:14 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do together? What did you do for fun while you were courting? | 14:14 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, you couldn't do too much because my dad was kind of strict, and he kept his eyes on me. You didn't court in no car, in no back still or no car. You courted in the living room. | 14:24 |
Karen Ferguson | And when would he have to go home? | 14:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, about 10 o'clock. They let him stay till 10 o'clock. After 10 o'clock it was time to get out. | 14:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you get married? | 14:59 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | In New Bern. | 15:03 |
Karen Ferguson | In New Bern? | 15:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 15:04 |
Karen Ferguson | And did you have a church wedding or—? | 15:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, courthouse. | 15:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your parents approve of your husband? Did they like him? | 15:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, they liked him. | 15:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you two go to live after you got married? | 15:18 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I lived with his mother the first year, and the next year and a half I lived with my mom and dad. | 15:24 |
Karen Ferguson | The two of you lived there? | 15:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 15:38 |
Karen Ferguson | So were you helping them out on the farm, or what were you doing to make a living? | 15:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, we farmed. | 15:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. You farmed? | 15:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 15:46 |
Karen Ferguson | When did you get a place of your own to stay, to sleep, a house? | 15:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | About the third year we were married. | 15:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Was it hard? Did you have any hard adjustments to make with married life? | 16:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I wouldn't think so. | 16:12 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Tell her about the cake you cooked when you were living with his mama and family. | 16:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | So I asked some of his sisters and brothers, I said, "Y'all ain't cooking nothing around here for Christmas? Don't y'all cook for Christmas?" They said, "No, see, Captain Seal give us our Christmas." I said, "What do he give you?" They says, "Nuts and candy, apples and oranges and a cake." I said, "What kind of cake? A bought cake or a homemade cake?" Said, "A cake like you buy." So I said, "Well, I might miss a good cake." So I made me a cake. | 16:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | So I was working out [indistinct 00:17:17] and I asked my sister, the one that was here a few minutes ago, I said, "Will you stay and help me serve supper tonight, and I'll get Mary to pick you up and take you home?" She said, "All right." I said, "Now, these folks here don't believe in cooking for Christmas," I said, "but I want to show you what I cook for my Christmas." And I went in there to open the cabin and show them the cake, and honey, the children had eaten it up. | 17:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh no. | 17:38 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | So what'd tell your sister? | 17:38 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I said, "I'm going to leave here tonight." I said, "Tell Daddy come get me in the morning." | 17:53 |
Karen Ferguson | So that's when you went back to your parents' house? | 17:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, I went back. | 18:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Now were you living in New Bern or were you living on the farm when you were living with his folks? | 18:01 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I was out in the rural. I guess you know where the John Wholesale lived down here. I was in there. It was a brickyard then. My husband was working to the brickyard. | 18:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, had he grown up on a farm? | 18:24 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he had worked on a farm when he was a small boy, but he didn't know nothing about farming. | 18:27 |
Karen Ferguson | But after you got your own place, was he farming for a living? | 18:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 18:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Did he know how to do it? Was he a good farmer? | 18:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he learned. | 18:44 |
Karen Ferguson | How did he learn? | 18:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, just like he learned anything else I reckon. | 18:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Did someone teach him? Did your father help him? | 18:52 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh yeah. | 18:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you have the same arrangement with the landowner when you two had your own place? | 19:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes. | 19:05 |
Karen Ferguson | So he owned his own implements? | 19:05 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-mm. | 19:07 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | No. | 19:10 |
Karen Ferguson | His own tools and things? | 19:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well no, he had to use the landlord's stuff. | 19:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you doing as well when you were farming as you had been when you were growing up? | 19:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. | 19:25 |
Karen Ferguson | What were some of the things that you missed when you got married that you had when you were growing up at home? | 19:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh, well my mother had plenty of chickens. She had geese. And my daddy had hogs and a garden, sweet potatoes and all that kind of thing. And we didn't have it, but I could go there and get it. Going to their house was just going to the grocery store. | 19:39 |
Karen Ferguson | When you had your children, did you have a midwife or did you go to the hospital? | 20:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Had a midwife. | 20:17 |
Karen Ferguson | What was her name? | 20:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Lady [indistinct 00:20:22]. | 20:19 |
Karen Ferguson | What would she do for you, other than just helping you deliver the child, the baby? | 20:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Eat what my sister would cook. | 20:35 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Let her know that was—wasn't that Daddy's grandmother? | 20:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 20:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you ever have a doctor when you had your baby? | 20:48 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. | 21:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, when your husband had his accident and he couldn't farm anymore, how did you make a living? | 21:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, there was some form of help that he got. They sent him to school for a barber. And then when he finished that, then he was a barber. | 21:11 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Who sent him to school? | 21:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, there was this— | 21:41 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Like a disabled program? | 21:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 21:42 |
Karen Ferguson | And while he was going to school, you still had your children to support, right? | 21:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 21:59 |
Karen Ferguson | So what did you do? How did you make ends meet then? | 22:00 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I took in washing and ironing. | 22:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you still farming? | 22:07 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. Uh-uh. | 22:09 |
Karen Ferguson | So you moved off the farm? | 22:09 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, I still stayed on the farm. But while my husband was away, I stayed with my mom and daddy. | 22:11 |
Karen Ferguson | And you were still on the McLauren farm? | 22:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 22:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you like doing that kind of work more than farm work? | 22:27 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | What, taking in washing and ironing? | 22:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 22:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, I liked the farm work the better. | 22:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Why was that? | 22:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, when I worked on the farm, I was my own boss. I did like I wanted to. | 22:43 |
Karen Ferguson | And when you took in laundry, what happened? Talking washing. | 22:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, they just paid me for it. And I had my own money and spent it like I wanted. | 22:59 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Did you have so many hours to get it done? | 23:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. I do it to my own convenience. | 23:09 |
Karen Ferguson | So you didn't do it at people's homes, you took it out? | 23:13 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | They brought it to my house. | 23:17 |
Karen Ferguson | How did you wash the clothes? | 23:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | On a wash board and tub and wash pot. I just do it like I do it now. | 23:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your children help you? | 23:28 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, they weren't big enough then. | 23:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you stay on the McLauren farm all—how long did you stay on that farm? Did you ever move off of it? | 23:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yes, we moved off. Let's see, when did we move off? Do you remember? | 23:50 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | I thought I was in about the 8th grade. I can't put it together. Were sister and brother in high school? | 24:01 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | They finished school that same year we moved off. | 24:11 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | That was '55 they finished high school. | 24:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, why did you move off? | 24:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, there was a White man there and he went up there and he told—I was cooking for the McLaurens. And he went up there and told the McLaurins that I said that everybody was going have to move because they was going to sell all the mules. So when Len told me what he said, I said, "Well, Mr—" This man's named Long, [indistinct 00:24:59]. I was Mike Longs. I said, "Well Mr. Longs told you a lie." I said, "I ain't said it. I didn't know it." I said, "If y'all are going to sell all the mules and everything," I said, "he ain't the only one who's going to move." I said, "We're going to move too." So we moved and he did too. So that ended the McLauren's business with us. | 24:27 |
Karen Ferguson | So you were, at that time you were cooking for the McLauren family? Okay. Was that what you did after your husband got hurt? Was that another way that you supported yourself? Did you like doing that? Did you like working in the McLauren house? | 25:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, I didn't like it, but I didn't have no choice. | 25:40 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you not like about that? | 25:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I'll tell you what I did like about it. They had the money, and that's what I was working for. | 25:50 |
Karen Ferguson | And that was it. That was all you liked? Okay. Fair enough. | 25:59 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Mother, tell her, didn't you try to get some help from Social Services? | 26:08 |
Karen Ferguson | I was just going to ask you. That's good. | 26:15 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Oh good. Go on and answer. | 26:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Your daughter was telling me yesterday that you had tried to get some help from the Social Services in the county and they refused you money. Could you tell me a little bit about what happened and why they refused you? | 26:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't know why they refused me, but all I know I didn't get anything. | 26:34 |
Karen Ferguson | And where did you go to try to get some money or food or whatever it was? | 26:41 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I still had my little washing and ironing. | 26:50 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | She's saying, where did you go? How did you contact Social Services? | 26:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I went down there myself. Mm-hm, I went. | 27:02 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | It was known as welfare, right? | 27:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, welfare. | 27:04 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | And who did you speak with? | 27:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, Ms. [indistinct 00:27:11]. I don't know if you heard anything about her or not. | 27:09 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Right. They named that building after her because she's supposed to been such a friend to the Black person, but she denied us food to eat. | 27:14 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | She'd get all the nice sweaters and things and take them to her associates in town. | 27:29 |
Karen Ferguson | She'd take who? Sorry? She'd take the bank's— | 27:35 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Sweaters and nice things that they give her to give the poor folks, she would take it to her friends in town. Well off, didn't need them. | 27:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right now were these Black folks that she gave them to? Okay. So to the richer— | 27:45 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | She was Black. | 27:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, she was Black? I didn't know that. | 27:53 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | I guess the first Black social worker in New Bern. | 27:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I guess so. | 27:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, let's change. Now, did she treat you with respect when you went down there to ask for some money? | 28:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Oh no. Uh-huh. She just treat you with no respect. She treated you like you was a criminal. | 28:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did the rich Black people or the well-known Black people in New Bern and in this area, did they treat people in the country and poor people—how did they treat them, the poorer people? | 28:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | They didn't have much respect for them. | 28:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Would they associate with people like you or poor people in New Bern? | 28:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. | 29:03 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | When you went to school in New Bern, were they nice to you? | 29:06 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-mm. | 29:08 |
Karen Ferguson | What was the relationship with White people like? | 29:17 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | About like it is nowadays. | 29:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think they had the same relationship with White people as you did? | 29:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I think they were sought a little more than I would've been. | 29:33 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Well, tell her why you didn't send us to the county school. | 29:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I had always heard that they didn't teach as much as the city school. So I wanted you to go where you could get the best. | 30:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Why do you think that the county schools were worse than the city schools? | 30:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I don't think they was any worse, but they just didn't teach. They just didn't have as good a faculty as the city had. | 30:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So the better teachers would go to the city? | 30:51 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 30:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think that it could have been that the teachers didn't respect their students in the county school? | 30:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I really don't know what it was. My brother went to the county school. So he went to school one morning and the teacher asked him something about the Sun. He said, "Well, I don't know." He said, "What, the Sun don't shine where you go to school?" He said, "I don't know where it does or not." Said, "It used to." Said, "But it's down when I go home. It ain't up when I leave soon. I don't know where it still shines or not." | 31:06 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | That was [indistinct 00:31:41]. | 31:33 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | And he was right. It was down when he left and it was down when he got back. | 31:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, given that people had to walk so far to school and had to do work in the farm and everything else, how did they get their lessons done? | 31:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | That was one reason they didn't get much lessons, because they weren't there to get it. | 31:57 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | So maybe it wasn't the teachers' fault after all. | 32:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you belong to any civic organizations after you got married and you were grown woman? Eastern Star or— | 32:19 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. I didn't have belongings on that. 4-H, and that was about it. | 32:29 |
Karen Ferguson | 4-H? | 32:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 32:39 |
Karen Ferguson | How about the county demonstration agent, the home demonstration agent, did you ever do anything with her? | 32:42 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, a little canning and stuff like that, but not too much. | 32:51 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do with your women friends when you became a grown woman? | 32:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I didn't do too much of nothing [indistinct 00:33:21]. | 33:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, where would you talk? When would you talk? | 33:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, when they visit me, I'll go visit them, we'd talk. When you got your work done, you didn't feel too much like talking. | 33:28 |
Karen Ferguson | That's something I wanted to ask people about. How did you do anything? People working so hard, how did you make a time for yourself? How did you make time for leisure and for private time and that kind of thing? | 33:48 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | You didn't have much of that kind of time. | 34:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you miss it? | 34:08 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, not too much because Saturday afternoon, you washed when you got the chance, you washed anytime you could get a few minutes to get a little washing done. And then Saturday afternoon you had the ironing patch and stuff like that. | 34:11 |
Karen Ferguson | To get ready for church or for the— | 34:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | The next week. | 34:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, I think I've about finished my questions. Do you have anything else that you would like to talk to me about that I haven't covered? | 34:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I can't think of anything. | 35:06 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Did you ask her who the boss in her household? | 35:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, I didn't. I didn't ask that. I should have asked. I asked about her own parents, but I'll ask. Who was the boss when you were married at home? | 35:16 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I was. | 35:26 |
Karen Ferguson | You were? Well, why was that? | 35:27 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I was just bossy as that. That's all I can put it to. | 35:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Why wasn't your husband boss? | 35:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Why wasn't he boss? | 35:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 35:43 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he had a tiger. | 35:49 |
Karen Ferguson | He had a what? | 35:53 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | A tiger. | 35:55 |
Karen Ferguson | A tiger? | 35:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 35:55 |
Karen Ferguson | What does that mean? | 35:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | He had a bad wife. | 36:00 |
Karen Ferguson | A bad wife? Okay. So there was no question that you were in control. And that included money? | 36:03 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, that included just about everything. | 36:13 |
Karen Ferguson | So was that different than when you were at home with your own family? | 36:18 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, because my daddy was boss when I was home. | 36:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you know other women who were boss at home? | 36:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 36:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Were most of them boss at home? | 36:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No, not many of them. | 36:36 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | But you were forced to be the boss, weren't you? | 36:40 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, you can put it that way. | 36:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Why was that? | 36:48 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, when he got hurt they put him out of circulation for a while. And somebody had to take over, and that somebody was me. And when you get stuck with something you hate to give it up, especially if you think you're doing a better job. | 36:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, do you think your husband would've been different had he been not hurt? How did getting hurt affect him do you think? | 37:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, he couldn't get out and do things like he could have done before. And so that set him back. | 37:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Did it change his personality? | 37:37 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Well, I wouldn't think so. | 37:39 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. I think I've about finished now. I've just got a few questions I'd like to—a little bit of paperwork I've got to fill out. Would that be all right with you? What's your full name please, ma'am? | 37:56 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Alfreda Bryant Brown. | 38:16 |
Karen Ferguson | And Bryant is your maiden name? | 38:26 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 38:29 |
Karen Ferguson | What's your address, please? | 38:31 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 535 Stevenson Road. | 38:36 |
Karen Ferguson | And what's the zip code? | 38:39 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 28562. | 38:42 |
Karen Ferguson | And your home telephone number? | 38:47 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 637-9527. | 38:48 |
Karen Ferguson | What's your date of birth, please? | 39:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | December the 14th, 1914. | 39:08 |
Karen Ferguson | And you were born here in Craven County? | 39:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 39:18 |
Karen Ferguson | What was your husband's name? | 39:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Thomas Arthur Brown. | 39:24 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was he born? Do you know? | 39:32 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | February the 20th, 1915. | 39:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And when did he pass? | 39:49 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | This past March, the 18th. | 39:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, right. '93? | 39:55 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 39:55 |
Karen Ferguson | And he was born in Craven County or New Bern? | 40:02 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Jones County. | 40:05 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Jones County, right. | 40:07 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | [indistinct 00:40:13]. | 40:08 |
Karen Ferguson | And your mother's name please? | 40:15 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Francis Bryant. Francis Jane Bryant. | 40:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Jane. Okay. | 40:21 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Barrett Bryant. | 40:22 |
Karen Ferguson | So Barrett was her maiden name? | 40:27 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 40:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Is that B-A-R-R-E-T-T? | 40:29 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right. | 40:34 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you know when she was born? | 40:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I just saw that somewhere the other day. | 40:40 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | When was that about? She was 90 when she died. She died in '81. She was in '91. | 40:43 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. And she passed in 1981? | 40:55 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Didn't she, Mother? Or '82? | 40:57 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | '81, I reckon. | 40:57 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | I think it's 2. Don't you have it written down? I have it someplace at home, the obituary. | 40:57 |
Karen Ferguson | That's all right if we just got the approximate. | 40:57 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | It's close. It's close. '81 I think. | 40:57 |
Karen Ferguson | And she was born in Craven County as well? | 41:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 41:24 |
Karen Ferguson | And your father's name, please? | 41:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Andrew Bryant. | 41:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you know when he was born? | 41:38 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | He was 76 when he died. And he died in '66. He might have been 77. He died in '66? | 41:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah, he was 77. | 41:49 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | He died around 1890 as well. He was 77, he died in '66. So that would be about the same, right. '89 or something like that. | 41:53 |
Karen Ferguson | And where was he born? In Craven County as well? | 41:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm-hmm. | 41:56 |
Karen Ferguson | And your sisters' and brothers' names, please? | 42:21 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | My sister's name Lilly Bryant Best. | 42:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Is that I-E? L-L- | 42:30 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Mm. | 42:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Lilly Bryant Best? | 42:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right. | 42:36 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was she born? I'm sorry. I hate these dates. | 42:39 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | How old is she? Her birthday's August. How old is aunt Lilly? Is she four years younger than you? | 42:45 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | I think so. | 42:55 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | So she was born in '18. | 42:56 |
Karen Ferguson | 1918? Is she still living that? | 42:58 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Yeah. | 43:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after Lily? | 43:01 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Emma Bryant Best. | 43:05 |
Karen Ferguson | And how much younger was she than you? | 43:12 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Do you know? | 43:20 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | She fall too. I have no idea, how old is she now? | 43:22 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | 72. | 43:30 |
Karen Ferguson | 72? | 43:30 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | So she was born in '21? | 43:33 |
Karen Ferguson | 21, yep. And after Emma? | 43:34 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Andrew. | 43:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Andrew. Junior? | 43:40 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Right. | 43:43 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | He was born in '24. He's 10 years to the day younger than you. He was born in '24. | 43:45 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Andrew, is that— | 43:54 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Sallie. | 43:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Sallie. Okay. | 43:57 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Marie. | 43:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Marie? | 44:00 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | S-A-L-L-I-E. | 44:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Sorry? | 44:03 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Sallie, S-A-L-L-I-E. Marie, I mean Sally Bryant White. | 44:05 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was she born? | 44:15 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | '28, mother? | 44:17 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | No. I'm 12 years older than sher is. | 44:17 |
Karen Ferguson | So 1930? | 44:21 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | No, '24. | 44:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, I'm sorry. | 44:28 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | '26. | 44:28 |
Karen Ferguson | '26, right. Sorry, I was looking at Lily's birth date. And after Sallie. | 44:29 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Dorothea. D-O-R-O-T-H-E-A. Dorothea Gray Bryant. | 44:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Gray Bryant? | 44:49 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | G-R-A-Y. Bryant. And she was born in '32. Was she, mother? | 44:50 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Dorothea? | 45:01 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | That ended it. | 45:02 |
Karen Ferguson | And so you were the oldest? And your children's names, please? | 45:04 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Thomas Arthur Brown Junior. Right? | 45:10 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Well, my grandmother raised the eldest of their children. His name is Thomas— | 45:20 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Simmons. | 45:31 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | —Andrew Simmons. He still live with us. | 45:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was he born? | 45:43 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | 1934. | 45:45 |
Karen Ferguson | And then comes Thomas Arthur Brown, Jr? | 45:50 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Right. 1937. | 45:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after him? | 45:59 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | Neil Brown— | 46:11 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Gibbs. | 46:11 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | — Gibbs. G-I-B-B-S. 1938. Then Alfreda Brown Collins, 1940. Mary Brown Brown, 1943. | 46:14 |
Karen Ferguson | And how many grandchildren do you have? | 46:22 |
Mrs. Brown's Daughter | You got it all figured out? I just have— | 46:31 |
Alfreda Bryant Brown | Nine. | 46:35 |
Item Info
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