Frances Jones interview recording, 1993 August 03

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Frances Hatch Jones	—by my father dying early, I was 10, and that made me stay right in the homestead with my uncle. Because the undertaker establishment was right next door. It was 42 Elm Street, New Bern. And all we had to do, my brother and I, was walk straight down the street and we walked right into school. West Street School, have you come that way?	0:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, ma'am.	0:36
Frances Hatch Jones	Right. All right. So it was joyous. Children weren't fighting and cutting and doing like they're doing now. There were about 10 of us, brother and sister, and Mr. Barber, who was the principal, would call us The Triumvirates. The brick house that's right on the hill before we crossed the street, he'd stand there and wait. Well, people didn't have a lot of dogs running but his cow was over there. My cow was over there. And so we had cows and horses. But anyway, the two fellows, Henry Parker and his sister Lula, would come on this side and I would come 42 Elm Street.	0:36
Frances Hatch Jones	Then the next street, Carrie Webster and her brother, the next street, Shay Marshman and his sister, and they'd all wait to my corner. But of course my brother was three years older than I and so we'd just wait and hook up. Throw that book bag across your shoulder and sometimes we'd go skipping. Mr. Barber would say, "Good morning, Triumvirate." Everybody telling, "Morning, Mr. Barber. Morning, Mr. Barber." I said to him, "Y'all sang that song this morning." That tickled him to death.	1:27
Frances Hatch Jones	"Frances, you crazy. All you studying about is some music." I said, "No, but y'all sound just like a bunch of something. I don't know what," and we'd laugh it off. But now if you say that to somebody, "What you got to do with it?" There's so much evilness in the world today. We had good times and went to each other's house and wasn't anybody going to worry about what's going to happen to you before you come back. Because my great-aunt reared me. She was 75 when I was born. She died in 1931. So you didn't go everywhere. Do you understand what I'm saying? You didn't go from Elm Street to Second Avenue by yourself at seven years old. No, you didn't. No, you didn't because the dogs and horses and everything in the street.	1:58
Frances Hatch Jones	Not the cars. It's worse now. Because, see, the cars don't blow no horn, give you a right hand signal and turn left right in front of you. So I'm trying to get it out. That's why I stay in my Bible. I've got one here. I've got one in the bathroom. I've got them all around. I need to check something out, I check it out so I can rightly divide the truth to somebody. Now, I had to go, these people now don't take their children to church, but I had to go because my great-aunt was crippled. And her name was Louisa. She was never married. But they had shot a bow and arrow in her thigh and put her eye out, one eye out, with a slingshot.	2:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Who had done that, ma'am?	3:49
Frances Hatch Jones	Oh, the devil is—I don't know who had done it but it was that way when I came to know her. Do you understand? So I had to go to church to protect my mama. I called her Mama. That's all the mama I knew. And they lived in Scott's Alley in twin houses. It seemed like to me we always owned our property. I guess it was from my grandfather, I don't know. But I know ain't never nobody knocking, paying rent. So I called that a good upbringing, don't you think?	3:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	4:24
Frances Hatch Jones	"Get out of here. You didn't pay your rent last week." No, we didn't have that. And after I got married I decided I'd not send my children. I brought them. The First Baptist Church is right over there. Historical because it's real old. I think the cornerstone says 1895 or 1859. I don't know exactly, but it's way back. It's in the archives of the library. But anyway, childhood was fine. No fights. Never had two fights in my life. So I don't know. I said maybe everybody just take a liking to you and they're still taking a liking to me because they keep me going. I don't want to sit here and rust out. I'd like to do something else beside make footprints on the sands of time.	4:24
Frances Hatch Jones	I was a daycare teacher for 12 years. I told you all I had played the first electronic organ in James City and I have been to one church 39 years. So what do you think about my organist?	5:23
Rhonda Mawhood	You must be a wonderful organist.	5:48
Frances Hatch Jones	Well—	5:50
Rhonda Mawhood	That's what I'm told.	5:51
Frances Hatch Jones	There's a plaque they gave me five years ago, that was 35 years. But I want you to see, and I've got my good stuff around. I don't only do work for my church, I do work for church. I'll let you look at some of these.	5:52
Rhonda Mawhood	I can come over there, if you'd like.	6:20
Frances Hatch Jones	No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.	6:22
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. The plaque, "To Mrs. Frances H. Jones for your years—"	6:29
Frances Hatch Jones	This was the Seven Day Adventist Church—right. I was a daycare teacher for 12 years. And this is the one they just gave me from my church. A person doesn't have too much honor in his own place. Christ didn't. So this is one they just gave me in March.	6:36
Rhonda Mawhood	"Presented to Mrs. Frances H. Jones—first Missionary Baptist Church, March 21st, 1993."	7:09
Frances Hatch Jones	See, when you belong to a church 50 years, you're getting history. I'll lay these right back here but I wanted you to see them. Didn't get—	7:10
Rhonda Mawhood	"To Frances Jones in recognition of thirty five years for faithful service to the church [indistinct 00:07:27]." So you've worked with all of these different churches, Mrs. Jones?	7:26
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes, I have. Go to revival, go right on up to the organ and [indistinct 00:07:45] start clapping the hands. And, "Ms. Jones—" I said, "I didn't come over here for no money. I got some money." "Lord, Ms. Jones," I said, "Put it back in the pay." "What are we going to do with you?" I said, "But if you're [inaudible 00:08:02]." They'd break out laughing. No, money is not everything. I'm at 77. I need kind treatments now, don't you think?	7:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	8:12
Frances Hatch Jones	Money is not everything. And if you put in two and take out 10, you're trying to rob somebody and everything here belongs to Him. That includes you, me and everybody else.	8:14
Rhonda Mawhood	The Lord.	8:30
Frances Hatch Jones	I said when the disciples asked Jesus, "Lord, teach us to pray." He said, "Have I been so long with you and you still don't know me?" I'll get it together right here. "Our fall," He could have said mine, couldn't He? But He didn't. He said ours. I have 12 noon prayer. I've been at that for about 21 years. Every Wednesday, looking for me, 12 noon, I'm right over to my church. And I do my missionary work. If somebody, 89, don't need a can of soup, he know where to come and ask for it. Or call me, "One day I'm going to call you and let you come [indistinct 00:09:13]." I said, "I'll be glad."	8:32
Frances Hatch Jones	So I wait right here until about 10 minutes of. Last week I was going so fast I left my keys. I have to have a pocket. So I left my keys in the other pocket. I had to run around. They're standing out there waiting for me but says, "She's coming." I don't lie because He's not even going get in the Lord's eyesight. He say He don't want to lie so I try to find myself, make myself—but I don't have to make myself. I be truthful. And my great-aunt taught me that.	9:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Your great-aunt taught you to be truthful?	9:46
Frances Hatch Jones	Yeah, truthful. My father died, as I said, fore stated, when I was 10. And I didn't know my mother until I was 18, 17 or 18.	9:47
Rhonda Mawhood	May I ask you how it was that you didn't know your mother until then?	9:59
Frances Hatch Jones	My mother and father separated and she didn't come this way. She was from the north. She was a New Englander and my father was from the south and he brought us, my brother and I, here where he'd have some help to help him to rear us. You couldn't take two and four year old or five year old children and turn them loose in the middle of the street. We had a home but you needed somebody's watchful eye. And we had four good ones. Them two sisters lived and we went from one yard to the other. People had fences. You didn't run all out in the middle of the street because a horse would come along and trample you down.	10:04
Frances Hatch Jones	And it was just fine. And she would go to church, sanctified. It didn't make her no difference. If she wanted to go to church, she'd go to church. And they'll say, "Do you want to go? Do you want to go?" Do like these people ask their children, "Do you want to do something?" "No, I don't want to do that." She'd say, "We are going to Free Will tonight. They're going to start revival." "Yes, ma'am."	10:41
Rhonda Mawhood	So was your aunt like you? She would go to different churches?	11:11
Frances Hatch Jones	That's what I'm trying to tell you. And you'll take a pattern at it, won't you? Even though she was crippled she'd go to church. But now these people send their children and the money they give them to put in, they done spend it when they pass the store. But the Lord has blessed me. I never been on welfare but I ate welfare food. I had dear friends with the welfare who would leave me some grits and a stick of butter. It's just good to be neighborly. They may live way in Duffyfield, but it was my friend because they passed me with it. Take this here for them cherries, right?	11:14
Frances Hatch Jones	So I thank God for myself and my upbringing. No fights at school, didn't play that. But everybody— We'd have a class reunion. I started to ask them. We had the West Street—did you see the book? One of the books, West Street—	11:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, ma'am, I did. Mm-hmm.	12:13
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, we have just a few of those because our classmates have been passing on. But there are few of us left and there's one girl that lives in Reston, Virginia. She said, "Let's correspond till we die." We'd been in class together, 1934. That wasn't yesterday, was it?	12:15
Rhonda Mawhood	No, ma'am.	12:36
Frances Hatch Jones	And I had lost that and I went back looking after I moved from the other house over here then all I thought I had, I didn't have it. So, "That school right there, you can get you another one." I passed that GED so—I can go to any college I want to.	12:39
Rhonda Mawhood	You passed the GED when, ma'am?	13:01
Frances Hatch Jones	1979. Got a re driver's license because I drove a car when I was 16. You didn't have to have any, right?	13:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-mm.	13:14
Frances Hatch Jones	I told you my father was an undertaker and they taught you how to do things.	13:14
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did your uncle teach you how to do?	13:18
Frances Hatch Jones	Huh?	13:20
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things did your uncle teach you how to do, ma'am?	13:20
Frances Hatch Jones	My uncle didn't teach me to do nothing but he had helpers, "Come on, Frances." I said, "Oh Lord, I can't do it." He said, "Now, look, let's get off of Can't Do Street." And that's what I tell my students, "Don't come in here with a can't do because I'll make you do," right? "So let me take your can't do and throw it back out the door." And I'd go there and throw it out the door. Next thing you know they're playing music and it makes me feel good. This fellow was— I'm trying to think of his name but I can't think of his name now. But he taught me how to—old standard, two brake and clutch in the floor, nothing now but pump the gas and—my daughter Mary was going to help me drive. I said "Mary—" She said, "Well, Mother, you better—"	13:23
Frances Hatch Jones	Reverend Sinclair, he used to belong down the church. He's pastor over here where I am now. He said, "You better go to the driving school." I said, "Yeah." "Well, where is the brake?" She said "Right there." I said, "Well, where do you put the—" She says, "Right there." Well, when you get 60 and 70 it has to kind of get fixed in the mind. Up is right, down is left. I've got you covered. Do you understand?	14:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	14:55
Frances Hatch Jones	And I went to school and I got around this street here with Reverend Sinclair in the car. A little baby run right outdoors about three, four and I stopped right on the dime about that—he said, "Ms. Jones, you're going to make a good driver." I said, "Lord, if I'd have hit that baby, I wouldn't have been no more driver." Then the mother come out, "What you doing out there in the street?" Instead of her having the door fastened so a little bit—you couldn't even see him over the top of the car. And he fell down and I was that far. Reverend Sinclair said, "Ms. Jones, you've got a eagle eye." I said, "Oh, when you got them of your own, you look out for them." I love children.	14:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. It shows.	15:47
Frances Hatch Jones	I love children.	15:47
Rhonda Mawhood	It shows. Did you plan to have such a big family?	15:48
Frances Hatch Jones	No. No, but I'm so glad I have, I don't know what to do. I would wonder. Some of my classmates had children that died at childbirth, the baby stillborn. And I wondered why all mine would live. He said in the book, "Behold, I'll show you a mystery." Why is it everybody is, "And give me this one." I said and, "Give me—" I said, "Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh." I said, "We are the Joneses and you supposed to be keeping up with me," right? "So you go start you off a clan, okay?" "Frances, you crazy." I said, "Not necessarily, but nobody's going to take none of my children while I'm living." Now, I can't help what happen when I die, right?	15:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	16:56
Frances Hatch Jones	My baby boy came late.	16:57
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you when you had your last child, your baby boy?	17:04
Frances Hatch Jones	He's 33 and I'm 77.	17:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	17:09
Frances Hatch Jones	Right. And I prayed and asked the Lord if He would just let me stay here so that he could talk and tell somebody, "My mother's name was Ms. Frances Jones. Do you know the lady that played the music?" I know somebody would give him a sandwich. Do you understand? And do you know he went in the Navy and fed me six years? Isn't that wonderful?	17:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. It sure is.	17:33
Frances Hatch Jones	And he's got one little girl and she's, they say, a spitting image. So I go to Durham and see them. And then I have two grandchildren that's already come out of North Carolina Central. Chris, one of them is—what do you call them? Jurists? She works at the correctional center in Newport and she's got her—she said her knees were shaking, "But Grandmama, you said I would get it and I got it." She's an apprentice jurist something. But she said her knees was evermore doing some trembling when she got it. She had the highest average in the class. But she went to North Carolina Central and that's a good school.	17:35
Frances Hatch Jones	And my daughter Mary's son is a manager of a Food Lion. But I don't know whether she said Murfreesboro or somewhere, but it's in North Carolina. And that makes me feel good. Because the devil is out here. The devil is out here with this crack and smoke. And I never—well, we didn't have that. That stuff wasn't in the world when I come along. So the teacher looked at me and said, "Frances, we from the old—" I said, "We from the old school. Because if you loved Him way back yonder, you love Him right on." But these people that are shooting and cutting and killing, I can't stand it.	18:25
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were growing up, Ms. Jones, what did you and your friends do for fun?	19:19
Frances Hatch Jones	Fights?	19:24
Rhonda Mawhood	No, do for fun when you—	19:25
Frances Hatch Jones	Fun? You'd go to your yard. My daddy was a giver. We'd play bobjacks, he'd roast peanuts, weed jack-in-the-bush, cut them down together, have fun right in the yard. Jump rope, hopscotch. You didn't do it in the street, you did it in the yard, "Mama, can I go over to Henry Parker's or to Lula Mae's?" "Sure." Because you know wasn't nothing going happen to you. You go and you stayed in the yard. You better not open that gate. And it had about three hooks on it. So it was safety. It had to be safety because I'm still here at 77, don't you think?	19:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	20:09
Frances Hatch Jones	And all that rough and tumble stuff, they didn't have that, honey. And I know you can't picture yourself being in a quiet world like I have been in, can you?	20:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-mm.	20:18
Frances Hatch Jones	Huh? I was reading in the paper where they found 132 marijuana plants from the air and they took burned them at the trash right here between Pollocksville and Trenton. So it's all around. You can get drunk from smelling it. Somebody had put a lot of grass on my porch to my other house. You need a napkin?	20:18
Rhonda Mawhood	No, thank you.	20:45
Frances Hatch Jones	On my porch. And I called the police. You call the police, "What's your matter, ma'am?" I said, "What is all this here? Somebody put a whole lot of grass—" "Ms. Jones, it just ain't nothing but some grass." I thought it was marijuana. I ain't never seen it before. But I didn't want it on my porch, right? "No, Ms. Jones, it ain't nothing." So I said, "No, I have allergies and I don't stick everything in my nose. Now, don't you put that in my face." Police, he jumped back looking at me. I said, "Uh-huh. No, you don't." He said, "Well, you can smell the marijuana." I said, "Well, I didn't know what it was and I didn't smell it. And I'm calling you, you smell it." I stayed down that way 39 years. Nobody bothered me, and they said it was rough.	20:46
Rhonda Mawhood	Down—where was that, ma'am?	21:32
Frances Hatch Jones	North Cool Avenue. You been by the train station?	21:33
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	21:38
Frances Hatch Jones	Pinex Drugstore is closed. It's Pinnex. But people called it Pinex. They've closed and joined up with another, Mr. McDaniel and his brother. We used to ride the bus together, have fun telling jokes. Jay Gaskin McDaniels, his brother was named. "Frances, I've got one for you this morning. You want it?" I said, "Yeah, I'm ready to hear it. What is it?" "Well, there was a pastor and he had just gone to the church. And they had told him before he got there it was rough so he better kind of walk a chalk line.	21:38
Frances Hatch Jones	So he said the preacher got in and clapped his hands together and got everybody excited. He said, 'I want three hymns. Sister Jones, won't you lead us with three hymns?' Sister said, 'Huh?' She couldn't hear too good, 'Huh?' Three hymns. 'I'll take him, and him, and him.'" Everybody on that bus fell out. But he was like that. "Frances, you got something?" I said, "No, you done killed me this morning. I don't have one." I just like to have some fun going. And if you all droopy, I'll pray with you and change your attitude.	22:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Were you like that when you were a child?	23:06
Frances Hatch Jones	From a child up I have always been the life of the party. One of my friends lives in Washington DC. He sent me a picture of myself when I was in seventh grade. "Mama, that don't—" I'd say, "Yes, it is. Same old Frances." "Mama that don't look like you do now." I said, "Well, you can't take 17 and 77 and compare them. But something is here that you'll know this is your mama." Then I had a hat on. It was tipped on the side. I said, "Look at Frances." I said, "Mm-hmm." But so far as fighting and all that stuff, we didn't do that. We didn't have—if you had a fight with somebody and they went and told my great aunt, then I got a whipping. And if you had done beat me up, I got a whipping. So I didn't do no fighting. I didn't do no fighting. Didn't have time for it.	23:12
Frances Hatch Jones	We played games and just games. String popcorn, have fun. But now it's not fun. You can't do nothing if you don't go buy a big Scrabble or Nintendo. These children nowadays aren't having fun. $65 and $70 for a pair of tennises. I can't stand it. I never bought a pair that cost that much in my life. I had four boys and seven girls and I always had a sewing machine. I sew.	24:08
Rhonda Mawhood	You sewed your children's clothes?	24:37
Frances Hatch Jones	I sew, yes. And I've got a daughter that sews. Uh-uh, I just couldn't go and—a pair of shoes was $2.98 for me, $1.98 for the children.	24:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did your great-aunt and/or your uncle buy your shoes?	24:49
Frances Hatch Jones	Downtown. Same downtown, Copeland Smith.	24:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Copeland Smith?	24:59
Frances Hatch Jones	Copeland Smith, right?	24:59
Rhonda Mawhood	Who owns that store?	25:03
Frances Hatch Jones	I don't know. They've been gone. Dead and gone. There's another something else now. Now everybody goes to the mall. My daughter carried me out there trying to find a red skirt. Her daughter works at—The Whopper. What is that?	25:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Burger King?	25:25
Frances Hatch Jones	Burger King. And we walked and we walked from about 2:30, when I got back here it was about 10 minutes past six. I was so tired. And I met and got hugs and hugs and I never been so [indistinct 00:25:43]. But it was peaceful. "I know that lady right there." We went in the stores. I don't know which store. "Don't you remember, Ms. Jones, I took music from you?" "Yeah, baby. What's your name?" I can't keep all them names in my head.	25:25
Rhonda Mawhood	You must have taught a lot of children over the years then.	26:02
Frances Hatch Jones	I've got a book. I've got two books. [indistinct 00:26:07] was a music teacher in the Vanceboro Consolidated School. I'd go on the bus every Saturday morning, eight o'clock, and I'd leave there at 2:00. They'd have the heat on and the door open. And I did that for three years. I had 17 children and I had three recitals. They said they hadn't had anything like that and the tickets were 50 cents.	26:04
Rhonda Mawhood	When was this, ma'am?	26:37
Frances Hatch Jones	This was 19—oh, this is '93?	26:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	26:43
Frances Hatch Jones	'83, '73, '68. And a lady said, "My daughter went to Washington DC and formed a group, gospel group," and said, "She's Picking Paul Robin Clean." I said, "Good." I've got a granddaughter I taught, one of my daughters here. She works at Cherry Point and has two daughters and I taught them music. She said she was messing around when she was down here. But she was glad that I had given her the opportunity to play music. And she come back here, she's married and lives in Cincinnati, on them fingers, I said, "Uh-huh, I told you it was in the blood, didn't I?" "Yeah, but I just wanted to act slow. Grandmama, I know what you—I know. I know. I know. I know because my Grandmama—" I said, "Don't brag so because you can—" I'm trying to get them to play where I'm at one Sunday so I can sit back. "I'm scared." I said, "You can do it."	26:43
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you learn to play the piano, ma'am?	27:53
Frances Hatch Jones	I went to school, honey. I went to school for it and got—my fifth grade teacher was a scholar from the Julliard School of Music. And my aunt sent me to them, to her. But my father played music. My mother is a product of the Julliard School. She lived in the north, right? I played my first solo in Wesley Chapel Church, that's about 12 or 15 miles up the road there, when I was six years old. And my aunt that was in the north sent me a piano for my birthday, which was 7th of June. And I was so glad you didn't have to pump. That other organ, if you didn't pump, you didn't get any sound. And I played my first solo in Wesley Chapel. It's still standing.	27:55
Rhonda Mawhood	So what birthday was it that you got the—	29:02
Frances Hatch Jones	Piano?	29:04
Rhonda Mawhood	The piano for?	29:05
Frances Hatch Jones	Seven.	29:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Seven. But you already could play the organ when you were six. When did you start?	29:06
Frances Hatch Jones	Oh, I was playing up something. See, we had the organ—I think I've been playing music ever since— My father played and I could hear it and go there and imitate what he played. And he would come in and say, "What book did you have?" I said, "Daddy, I didn't have no book. I heard you play What a Friend We Have in Jesus. And I heard you humming and I could—" It was all in the key of C. I didn't know about the different keys then. And he said, "Well, did you have—" I said, "No, sir." "Well, you're going to have to have some music lessons." I said, "Yes, sir." So he showed me the organ. You have to know your instrument. And God had given me the gift to fix the instrument. I can fix the instrument, the organ, electronic— It ain't nothing but tubes.	29:09
Rhonda Mawhood	And you can fix it?	29:52
Frances Hatch Jones	I fixed it. We have a Wurlitzer over here. We've got a big Baldwin over there, number two. And the fellow come, "Those pedals, you don't stomp them pedals. You just move your feet." So the pastor came down out of the choir box over here to my church one Sunday and he said, "Ms. Jones, I don't ever see you looking down." I said, "Looking down where?" "How do you know where to put—" I said, "That's coordination. Have you ever heard tell of—" He said, "Just go ahead. There ain't nothing we can do with you. Just go." I said, "When you look down there, how are you following your music up here? Now, what I'm looking down there for?" I say when God give it to you, you've got it. You've got it. And those older people, you had to get it. You didn't go there and mess around, standing over somebody looking. You waited your turn and when He got to you, you got down to business.	29:52
Frances Hatch Jones	I had a student that came here from up [indistinct 00:31:23] Tuscarora, somewhere out that way, and she was nine. And the next week, about two weeks after that, she would give her the key and let her open the door and put her books in. And her mother told me right then, "Ms. Jones, you have changed her whole outlook." I said, "Well, that's what I wanted to do." I said, "Now, regardless of if your mother wants you to do something, that's fine. But if you don't want to do it then you won't do it. See, your mind is made up, 'I don't want to do this,' and your mother can't make you. Now, I'm going to ask you a question. Would you like to learn to play the piano?"	31:17
Rhonda Mawhood	I would one day.	32:12
Frances Hatch Jones	She said—well, I'm saying, I'm talking to the child.	32:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, I thought you were asking me. I'm sorry.	32:15
Frances Hatch Jones	I'm talking to the child. She said, "Yes." I said, "Well, you have to pay attention to what I'm saying. Now, the first place, whose house are you to?" "I'm to your house." I said, "Well, you're supposed to do what I say and when you go home you do like you please, right?" She said she had a little—what do you call it? It's a little—	32:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Synthesizer?	32:40
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, it is a synthesizer. But you know you can put it in your lap, they have some small ones you can put in your lap? They have some stand, different ones. But her mother said she had one. And honey, she went through that first grade book fine. First book, she was tickled to death. Her husband was in the service and so they naturally moved to Federal. But I hope and pray that she's still at the music because she was letting me know she had everything. I said, "Now, first thing I do, I give you one or two to memorize. Once you put your music in your brain, then you've got it somewhere. Nobody don't knock it out, right?" "You're right."	32:41
Frances Hatch Jones	But honey, we fell in love. She used to come in here and I'd say, "Come on, I'm ready for you." I can't even think of her name. She had to tell her mother something before she went in. I said, "Now, when I call you, you come immediately because you're wasting my time if you don't for somebody else waiting." "Yes, ma'am." Her mother said, "You straightened her—" I said, "Well, I have never wanted to be classed as rough, but I don't let nobody's child run over me. I'm the boss." When I was a daycare teacher, right at my church—you saw the plaque?	33:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, ma'am.	34:03
Frances Hatch Jones	That's '81 and I've done '91. Been left there 12 years, right? But I'm saying I had a long switch laying across my desk. And the state lady would visit, they'd come visit you to your daycare centers now. The First Baptist Church had the first daycare center in New Bern then they sprung up everywhere else. We had Black and White. In Christ, there ain't no east or west. Did you make your skin—wasn't it on you when you got here? Wasn't your skin on you when you got here? Did somebody paint— Ain't you got it? It's just crazy. Like in the Bible, the Jews didn't want the Gentiles, but there ain't but one God, one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. If you don't love the Lord, then you ain't no Christian.	34:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you play with White children when you were a little girl, Ms. Jones?	35:07
Frances Hatch Jones	Huh?	35:09
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you play with White children when you were a little girl?	35:09
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes, indeed. I worked for one doctor 15 years and helped him to raise three. Whipped them. They're not dead. They're still living. Dr. Simmons Patterson come right here every year and bring me a poinsettia for Christmas and a bag of goodies. I said, "That's having love, one for the other," right?	35:10
Rhonda Mawhood	How old were you when you started to raise these children?	35:33
Frances Hatch Jones	Oh, 21. So went to New York, thought I'd slip out the way. And, see, that's when I met my mother, when I was 16.	35:35
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were 16 you met your mother?	35:49
Frances Hatch Jones	16, I met my mother for the first time. My cousin was already there and she said, "Here she comes. I'm going to see if you know her." And I saw this lady coming in the Port Authority just like that. So I just stood on the bylines after you come through the turnpike or whatever you call that thing where you push it.	35:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Turnstile.	36:19
Frances Hatch Jones	A turnstile?	36:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	36:20
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, whatever. And just as she got ready to pass me, I stepped right in front of her. I said, "Good evening, ma'am. Are you Lucinda Hatch?" She said, "Yes, I—oh my God, Frances. Oh Lord." Everybody turned around looking but I was hugging my mama and my mama was hugging me. It was a joyful day for me. Do you understand me? But I still didn't know her. Then she got blind and came here and stayed with me. And what made me feel good and it came back, my sister had muscular dystrophy from '76. I would go and stay with them a week. My brother would go and stay a week and we did that for a while. And then when they got ready to take my sister to Federal, she worked for the federal government. Federal, the hospital here, they had a jacuzzi, some little swirling thing to put her in, see if they could straighten some of her limbs out. And that didn't do no good. But my mother stayed here that week.	36:21
Frances Hatch Jones	And when they came back for her, she's blind now, she says, "Why do I have to leave? I'm perfectly comfortable right here." Now, that made me feel good. She could've said, "I'm starving to death. Let me get out of here. They ain't given me nothing to eat this week," couldn't she? But she says, "You don't even have to have your slippers on. I feel that soft carpet underneath my feet." I said, "You don't feel no carpet." "Yes, I do." She puts the slippers on but I pulled them right off because I like to walk barefoot.	37:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Was your mother a musician professionally?	38:08
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes, she was. My mother was a musician.	38:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did she play?	38:13
Frances Hatch Jones	She played in Brooklyn, New York, Bergen Street Baptist Church. I went to her funeral in '85 and I buried my brother in Chicago, 1985, January, 1985. And buried my mother in September '85.	38:14
Rhonda Mawhood	75?	38:37
Frances Hatch Jones	75, same year. I tell you, when it rains it pours.	38:40
Rhonda Mawhood	It seems like maybe your mother was young when you were born.	38:48
Frances Hatch Jones	I don't know. My father and mother got married in 1911 and my brother was born in '13. I was born '16, 1916. So they couldn't have been no babies. Do you know what I mean? But they wasn't no old people. My father was a cook, undertaker and whatever you call—a baggage man. He worked his fool self to death. This child here is 41 years old, same age as my father. He does not have any baby children. He's got a grand baby, but don't you know, you need your daddy. 41 years old. It's something else. But His will must be done. He hugged us all out in the cemetery Sunday. I buried my uncle's daughter. That's the last one of his clan. She would have been 89 the 17th of September, 12 years older than I.	38:52
Frances Hatch Jones	And if somebody had told him, "They'll be burying you before the week is out," he'd have told them, "It's not so." But He said, "I'll show you a mystery." If I knew that I was going go today, not that I've been so bad, I'd pray all night. I'd pray till the time come they'd catch me on my knees. Death would catch me on my knees. I'm just that fearful of the Lord. But He'll give you the message and you're going to give it to everybody.	39:57
Rhonda Mawhood	What did your aunt or your father or your uncle teach you about the Lord and about honoring the Lord?	40:27
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, the children skip church now if they feel like it. As I fore stated, I had to go, right? I played the organ, pump organ, in Guilfield Missionary Baptist Church. Nine years old, I had me a little choir of about seven. Do you understand?	40:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes.	40:57
Frances Hatch Jones	So that's my life work, has been in the church. And I've told my children, "No preaching." And he'll tell them, I go home going, "I don't want no preaching. I want you to pop up and say what you know. That one pop up, this one pop up and get on with it." No, but two churches is going be too long of a drawn congregation to have a lot of—I don't want no preacher, just let them pop up. Because I'm preaching my funeral every day, right? I don't need no preacher. I won't hear nothing, right? So I don't want no preacher.	40:57
Rhonda Mawhood	When your father died, was there any talk of you maybe going north to be with your mother?	41:34
Frances Hatch Jones	That's when I looked for my mother and I ain't seen the woman yet. I thought when my father died then my mother would certainly show up, but she didn't. So when I went north and met her, then I didn't stay there, right? I came back home where my folks were, my great-aunts.	41:42
Rhonda Mawhood	When you did meet your mother, did you ask her about that?	42:03
Frances Hatch Jones	No. No, I didn't know her well enough to stay with her. And I would not have missed all my friends in New Bern for her. Because if she didn't come when my father—I don't say I held that against her. But there couldn't be no love. I didn't know her well enough. I love you as a person. I'm human. I've got a piece of fruit, you want a apple or whatever I have, I'm willing to give it to you. But she was just different from what I had been reared with. She was just a different person. I didn't know her and I did not have as much sense now at 16 as I have 77, right? So it's common sense I wouldn't get on to her. But when she came here blind then that's where my love—I couldn't. "Are you going to eat now? Because I'm going to do something else," talk mean to her, no, I didn't do that.	42:06
Frances Hatch Jones	I took my great aunt's daughter, which was my grandfather's people, and took care of her nine years, she and her brother. 1969, the 22nd day of April, I buried her brother. And December 31st, 1969, I buried her. I ain't asked nobody for nary a dime and I don't owe the undertaker nary a penny. Do you understand? So when I go to church, I don't look for no money. The man I serve takes care of me. How am I doing for 77? Pretty good?	43:15
Rhonda Mawhood	All right.	44:03
Frances Hatch Jones	Mm-hmm. No, you give them to the world the best you have and the best will come back to you.	44:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you work in your uncle's business when you were growing up?	44:11
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes, indeed, I did.	44:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Can you tell me what you did?	44:15
Frances Hatch Jones	I [indstinct] bodies. He had a little thing where you could go get a baby, 13, 14, bring them, covered in line caskets. Oh, yes. I say I guess that's why I've got this all good face, "Hey, Frances." "Hey, baby." "Ms. Jones, you ain't forgotten?" "No, darling. What's your name?" I can't remember all them names. "Ms. Jones, I took music from you way back when. Don't you remember me? I'm Wanda." "Come here. Let me get a hug, Wanda." I can't remember all that. But if they do, so I say I must have this face that they can remember, okay?	44:18
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes, I had to clean, take the cow out, tie the horse over on the hill where the grass was. Milk the cow, carry the milk out and then go to school. That's why I've got three nephews back there, they don't get up till one o'clock. And I've been up and been through here outside and inside. Where's your car?	45:08
Rhonda Mawhood	It's on the other side—	45:38
Frances Hatch Jones	Uh-huh, all them little leaves, tiny leaves, I've just been out there sweeping. They're lazy. These young people lazy. You've got to call them, shake them up, make them go to school and they go ride the bus. Mine walked from the last street over where the train station is, Pastor Street is the last street. North Cool Avenue was Jenkins Alley. They changed the name of the street and they went from here to Duffyfield School, which is JT Barber's now. My son, James, graduated from JT Barber High School in 1956, the first graduating class. And they've got his pictures there—was 60 and they come right on down. My God, I don't see nothing. I'm just looking.	45:39

Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I was wondering about your uncle's business, the undertaking business.	0:01
Frances Hatch Jones	Oh, he was fine. We had the first automobile hearse in Newburg 1923 or '24. Okay? It was Hatch Brothers. My daddy was the undertaker here—oh yeah.	0:06
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of people came to the business to have their family buried?	0:28
Frances Hatch Jones	Same Colored people. Same Colored people. You want that story about my Uncle Teddy? Mm-hmm.	0:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, please.	0:43
Frances Hatch Jones	There's two sets of people. Honest and dishonest. You can't pick them out. Christ said he let the wheat and tares grow together. When he comes back, he's going to separate it. So you not supposed to look down at me and I'm not supposed to look down at you, because we're all human beings. You may fall out there in that pavement, you don't know whether you're going to get back to your car or not. That has to be God's will that you do it, right? So now, why you going to be looking up like you don't see me, right? Somebody come out there and put a gun on you, I'd be to that the telephone so fast, police be so fast, it would make your head swim. You understand what I'm saying?	0:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes ma'am.	1:23
Frances Hatch Jones	He said love your neighbor as you do yourself. Your neighbor may be in Durham. Ain't you got some neighbors in Durham?	1:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes ma'am.	1:35
Frances Hatch Jones	Ain't you got some somewhere else?	1:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes ma'am.	1:37
Frances Hatch Jones	My neighbor called and he was praying with me last night. I was telling him I just lost my cousin and the fella covered her up had got knocked in the head with the tree and he was dead. I said, "Can't be over 41." Because the grandchildren had played together.	1:39
Frances Hatch Jones	She said, "Well, I'm going to ask her." I feel better. I was just torn up yesterday. I got a daughter works in the housing project and she had got the message and called my granddaughter. My granddaughter lives in my other house. Who you reckon is dead. Pervis William. Not our Pervis. Say Yeah. Then she got to crying. And her mother was sitting there and she says, "Kay, what's the matter?" And she couldn't get it out. So she took the phone.	2:00
Frances Hatch Jones	When she took the phone, she got to crying. I said, "Wait a minute, what's the matter?" She couldn't tell nothing. I said, "Virginia, now you hold up." But he said he'd show us misery, didn't he? Yes he did. I said, "Well, it was Pervis' time to go. Had it not, the tree could have broke his arm. He'd have been better with one arm." But I say, "His will gone be done. Now dry your eyes and get yourself together. Okay?" "Yes ma'am." And she was all to pieces. And so, I got them straightened out over there and come there and sat right there and cried my eyeballs out. 41 years old. It was a mystery.	2:32
Frances Hatch Jones	They said before the ambulance got there, hit him in top of the head, said his head was big as a [indistinct 00:03:28] tub. You don't have no idea how far you can even pull your tongue out. I had a fish bone down my throat.	3:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Yeah.	3:37
Frances Hatch Jones	And I take my tongue and I pulled it down to there to reach back and pull the fish—you got no idea what you can do, right? You don't have no idea of what can be done to you without a whole lot of hurting and stuff.	3:37
Rhonda Mawhood	You told a story at the reception last Monday, Ms. Jones, about a White man—	3:59
Frances Hatch Jones	Mm-hmm.	4:05
Rhonda Mawhood	—who your uncle buried.	4:05
Frances Hatch Jones	I worked right next door to his son, when I worked at 1507 Tryon Road. And their children came over to see Francis. By the doctor having three children, daddy were boys and girls. His name was Joe Slater, Sr. In 1936 or '37 or '38, I don't know exactly what year, but when it got taken social security, you had to take that off of them wages and put that there for them people to draw when they come of age, right? He wasn't gone do it. So he took some poison and turned himself Black. Well as you see me, you see my daddy. I was friendly. Mr. Joe [indistinct 00:05:04] lived right down on Hancock Street and he was stumped.	4:07
Frances Hatch Jones	My uncle was the greatest embalmer during those years, maybe some bigger and better, to mix that fluid, but Mr. Joe [indistinct 00:05:32] come to get Uncle I.P. That's what he called him. That's what I called him. "Is Uncle I.P. here?" I say, "Yes sir." He was in the back. I say, "Uncle, there's a man out here want to see you." "Joe [Indistinct 00:05:42]?" He said, "I'll be right there." I don't know what he was doing, but he come on out.	5:12
Frances Hatch Jones	"You know Joe Slater, to keep from paying the people they back wages, so they put it in on their social security. Do you know he killed himself last night?" "No." My uncle said, "I haven't been out anywhere. I haven't heard it." He said, "Uncle I.P., he's dark as you." Uncle say, "What?" Well, I'm listening. You didn't look right in them people's faces then. I started wondering, 11 years old, you know I did. "Would you undertake the embalming?" "Sure. No trouble. No trouble."	5:56
Frances Hatch Jones	So he embalmed him. He was the only specialist in North Carolina, in that day at the Gupton-Jones embalming School. I helped him get his lessons and uncle turned him back.	6:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Back to White?	7:12
Frances Hatch Jones	Back to White. So that was—been a mystery, they opened him up Black there in the church, wouldn't it? In a White church, wouldn't it? They'd have said he got the wrong man but it was him. He turned him back. Didn't do it that day, did it that day. Didn't have the funeral the next day. Next day, had his funeral, just looking like—	7:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Was that the only White person who your uncle—	7:36
Frances Hatch Jones	At that time, I don't know about any other, but he was the only one that I know that messed his self up. I used to ride the bus, Tryon Road, get off and walk over, right where the bank—you know where the palace is? You know where the bank is? I used to get off on that corner and walk two streets over. Queen Anne Lane is first and Tryon road is second. And I knew everybody up there, but Mrs. Mills lived on the corner of Queen Anne Lane and the road you go through. Forgetting the name of the park, can't even think of the name of it now.	7:41
Frances Hatch Jones	But anyway, she had two big pear trees on her front—there'd be pears all over the sidewalk. I stepped all over them pears for two years. Wasn't my pears and I hadn't put any tree up there. And I would see her standing to the kitchen window looking to see we— Because always somebody going [indistinct 00:08:59] gone pick up a pear. So one day, the good Lord touched her heart and she gave me two big bags.	8:28
Frances Hatch Jones	"Francis?" I said, "Yes, ma'am?" She said, "I told Sims I've been standing to the kitchen waiting for Francis to pick up a pear." "Who is that with her?" Said, "That's her daughter. She cleans my offices." "I've been waiting to see Francis pick up a pear. She hadn't picked up a pear. So I gave her a big paper bag full." I could hardly get them to the bus.	9:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Was this a White lady or a Black lady?	9:52
Frances Hatch Jones	Yeah, she was a White lady, but I'm saying, I was going to my job. I wasn't going to pick up her pears. Nobody wasn't paying me to pick up her pears, but she's standing watching to see if I would pick up her pears. I know difference between mine and thine. I never been in jail in my life. I've been in court.	9:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Been in court?	10:12
Frances Hatch Jones	Been in court listening to what was being said, but me getting up there on the stand? I don't play that.	10:12
Rhonda Mawhood	What do you remember the relations between the police since you mentioned jail and Black people in New Bern being like when you were growing up?	10:24
Frances Hatch Jones	When I was growing up—when I grew up, Elm Street, there was no police that would come riding by and shooting and cutting like they doing now. We had just as crowded neighborhood as we have here. The only way the police would come here if I call.	10:35
Rhonda Mawhood	Were people, excuse me, ever afraid of the police?	10:55
Frances Hatch Jones	I don't know. You don't know about everybody, but in my neighborhood, everything was peaceful. Everybody knew everybody. If that one down there saw you going across the street and you know didn't have no business, I'm going to tell Louise [indistinct 00:11:17] and I didn't do that no more. "Please don't. Please don't, Ms. Johnson. I'm just—" "What you going down—" "I don't know. I won't go down there anymore." There was a store down the second corner. You run down there and some change, get you a Mary Jane that long. Now you can hardly find them. You eat Mary Jane candy?	10:59
Rhonda Mawhood	No ma'am. I don't know what it is.	11:38
Frances Hatch Jones	That little block, you put in your mouth at once.	11:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Uh-uh.	11:42
Frances Hatch Jones	You couldn't put them back yonder in your mouth at once. No you didn't.	11:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Is it chocolate? Or is it—	11:50
Frances Hatch Jones	It's peanut butter.	11:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay.	11:52
Frances Hatch Jones	Peanut butter. Caramel and peanut butter. Good too. Just like a tootsie roll. That thing was that big around. It's so little now, you can hardly find it. It's pitiful. They're getting something. You ain't getting nothing for your money now. Just a different day. Used to could get three cans of milk for a quarter. One can is 33 cents now in this day.	11:53
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your aunt used to send you to the store ever for her?	12:20
Frances Hatch Jones	No, she'd send my brother. He was older. I tell you, us young folks wasn't allowed in the street. She'd send him, he could better defend himself. She'd send me sometime with a note, right to the next corner and you go and get it and give us about five minutes to get around that corner and back. You was humping it. Now they got to stop bouncing ball, go to John's house and stay while, come back with the butter all melted. I didn't come through that time. My folks were strict and I'm like it and I'm glad they was strict. Tend to your business, know the difference between mine and thine and leave that there. If it's not yours, don't bother it.	12:30
Rhonda Mawhood	Tell me where did people gather when you were growing up. Where were some of the gatherings—	13:17
Frances Hatch Jones	The gatherings were to the church. We had one time, I think it was about—well, I was fully grown. I didn't have insurance. We had the Emancipation Proclamation at where the police station is. That was called the Armory, and Black and White were together. Wasn't no incident, no nothing. Just went on in there and stayed. My father was a Mason. He was a Knight of Pythian and everybody when they come in town, eat to our house. Told you he was a cook and we ate with him. You just put the little ones back and let the big ones—these my two little brats. He say, "They come first in my life." "Oh yes, Mr. Hack." Sit right down. Our plates was right there. Mm-hmm.	13:24
Rhonda Mawhood	You must have heard some interesting conversations going on.	14:20
Frances Hatch Jones	Mm-hmm. They wanted my father to go back to Worcester, Massachusetts. That's where he had worked, but he didn't go. He said, "No, I'm set up here now. So I'll stay here." I've got a—let me see if I can show it to you. Take this off just a minute.	14:20
Rhonda Mawhood	So Ms. Jones, you were saying the gathering place was the church. Were there other places? Did people gather at—	14:52
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, we always had a program at school.	14:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Uh-huh.	15:00
Frances Hatch Jones	See, they had the big auditorium. I had three great grandchildren to graduate this year and the new school is so much glass, until it can only seat 300. So I don't go, because I can't stand. I use my legs. So I didn't go. I got the invitation, I didn't go to see the graduation and I always thought graduation was beautiful, because I loved to see children marching, but I didn't go. And you had to go early. My oldest son had a daughter to graduate and he got disgusted and he came home. He couldn't be seated.	15:01
Frances Hatch Jones	So they're doing more building now and ain't having capacity enough to seat people. When you went in that auditorium upstairs at West Street School, everybody could sit down. Same as JT Bobby. They got seats on that side and seats on this side and everybody can fill in, at least 300, 400 people. 500s. More than that, because they got plenty of seats in there.	15:46
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were in school and you put on a program, what kinds of things were on the program?	16:08
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, we had every morning, going to school, the morning devotion. They done took that out. That's why the schools are shooting and cutting and—did you know that? Took the prayer out and that was detrimental to this upcoming generation. It should start at home. Mamas take the children to Sunday school and sit there with him and listen. That's where you learn, but they send them and have children go spend the money, like I said, to the store and come back to Sunday school and he done spent the money. So he don't know what's going on with the money he giving. Then here he come by, half past 11. He wouldn't even come done sit here an hour. He come by half past 11 and sit up there and sleep.	16:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you put on Christmas—	17:01
Frances Hatch Jones	Huh?	17:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you put on Christmas pageants or Christmas shows?	17:03
Frances Hatch Jones	No, I was always in them. I thought I saw [indistinct 00:17:12] as a theatrical ensemble that she puts in and I played in that. We had two performances at the Cedar Street Gym here, one Saturday night and one Sunday evening. And my pastor had to go to somewhere down the street and actually, the choir wasn't going if I didn't go and I was trying to get back at 4:00. When we got back there, the pastor down there had learned that my pastor's mother was dead, so he didn't expect us to come. So that my granddaughter brought me right on back and I was just in time at the opening of the play, right here at Cedar Street Gym. We've always used the schools and churches. Didn't have big auditoriums like we got now, this and that.	17:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Were there other places that people gathered in the neighborhood when you were growing up? Like barbershops or beauty parlors or stores?	17:56
Frances Hatch Jones	Oh, there were barbershops, because I'd go to the barbershop. They had a barbershop quartet and the men sung up here on this something on TV last night. I was in my room, I said "Good gracious, that's that old barbershop harmony." I don't even know what they were singing, but it got my attention.	18:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to the barbershop when you were a little girl?	18:21
Frances Hatch Jones	My daddy would take me.	18:23
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay, which one?	18:28
Frances Hatch Jones	Can't even think of the man's name now.	18:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it Vel's?	18:29
Frances Hatch Jones	Huh?	18:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it Vel's barbershop?	18:30
Frances Hatch Jones	No. No. My daddy been dead since '27. Wasn't no Vel's barbershop in '27. No. I can't even think of the man's name, but my brother had a brother so I—my daddy didn't carry one unless he carried the other. I'd go to the barbershop and sit and had a wide panel in the window. People got flowers. I sit in my chair over there and cut my hair, cut my brother's hair, cut my daddy's hair. No, but I went to the barbershop and if they struck up a tune, you'd a heard them men singing.	18:34
Rhonda Mawhood	They would sing in the barbershop?	19:06
Frances Hatch Jones	Singing while you work. Oh, yes. Yes, ma'am. I've taught my children to sing. My daughter Mary played the morning service at my church and the other five daughters were in the choir. Hear Charlie?	19:07
Rhonda Mawhood	I hear him singing. Your bird. He was like—	19:30
Frances Hatch Jones	He's something. But anyway, we had places that dad would take my great aunt. We used to have Mr. Lonnie Davis. Lawrence Davis, Black, had the first bus company in New Bern. He didn't have but two buses and he'd get right there on West Street School, because he'd pick up my great aunt, put them on the bus, because she was crippled. Sit in the back. But he'd take the people to Atlantic Beach and they'd take their shoes off and get in that salt water down in Morehead. That was when— Be down there with the old folks. Then we'd go to Shady View Beach, since I've been up and with the children and somebody always seeing five or six more for me to look out for. So I quit going. You understand what I'm saying?	19:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes ma'am.	20:36
Frances Hatch Jones	We used to have straw rides. You get straw, yeah. Put it on the back of the car, the bus, the truck and load them children up. Then, everybody sitting down and you didn't—when they said sit down, you sat down. These children now doing what they please. And we'd have straw rides from school times, Fridays. We'd walk Oaks Road all the way around. Walk. Everybody wasn't riding, you'd walk.	20:38
Frances Hatch Jones	Seventh and eighth grade, teachers right along with us, going up back of the cemetery and keep on round the bend. Thirty mile, thirty mile road out here, George Street, carry you right on around the bend. Have fun. No fussing, no fighting. Everybody just happy. I don't really understand what's going on in the world today. That's why I say I think it's so silly when some people ask me, "Francis, you're still having your prayers?" I said, "That's the only thing keeping New Bern on the top side." Prayer. These children are doing some of everything and I think it's the dope that's kind of blowing the mind. The marijuana smoking. No longer than two years ago, 17 year old child, right here in the White cemetery, cut the boy's throat and left him sitting side the wall. 17 years old.	21:11
Frances Hatch Jones	Well, here's what I'm saying. If his grandmother—he gave his grandmother $2,000 to go buy him a car Friday. Wouldn't you ask where he got $2,000 from? Wouldn't you have asked where he got that money from and going to school? Wouldn't you have asked that question? Would you have gone to buy any car with your grand boy and Sunday morning, that his throat is cut?	22:17
Frances Hatch Jones	I had four boys. I've never bought a rifle. No gun. No. Uh-huh. I didn't have it. And if you came to my house to play with my boys and had your gun, it laid across my kitchen table till you left. I'm in control. I am the boss lady. I started to tell you about the daycare children. I got to put this in. We go from the school, my church is right there. So we go from the school and I filled my pockets with crackers, cold biscuits, crumble it up and I had two of them, would keep the hands in my pocket and they'd be crumbling up. In the cemetery out here is the fishbowl, the big fishbowl that was sitting in Norwood, Pollock, and Queen. That was called MacArthur's Corner or MacArthur's Square.	22:46
Frances Hatch Jones	And beautiful goldfish. Beautiful goldfish. And I would take my daycare children to see the goldfish. I said, "We're going to do so and so tomorrow." And I'd try to keep my word. In fact, wrote it down. I had every day's date, what we gone do. But this particular morning, I had just my group. I had 19 graduates. I had the highest number of children in the class. The girl next door had her child in there and she'd fling her in my room. "Go in there [indistinct 00:24:25]. Won't keep still when I say."	23:53
Frances Hatch Jones	And she'd be in there happy. So she was happy to be—because we were outside doing something. Skipping, hopping. When I got to the corner down here, I said, "Look at these alphabets. Let's say what they are. S-T-O-P. Do you know what that means?" "No ma'am." I says, "It means stop." I said, "Say it one more time. S-T-O-P." She took my switch. Little girl took my switch. "S-T—" Like she to the black board. I say, "You got it?" Say, "We got it." When you get to the next corner. "Oh, there's another one." I said, "Right. What does it say?" "S-T-O-P."	24:28
Frances Hatch Jones	So I came around that side to get in the front side, because I wanted them particularly to see stop. Trying to get it in them now. Then none of them five years old. None of them five years old. So we went on in and went in and fed the fish. Oh lord. I was broke down on both pockets. They'd get the crumbs out and the fish would come and eat it. "Look, look look." We'd stay in there and mess around and I taught them how to walk in the pasture and not across the graves.	25:28
Frances Hatch Jones	I said, "Now when we go back, I want you to write what you saw on the sign. What were they?" "S-T-O-P." I said, "We got it." What do you think each one of them wrote? I was in stripping paper. 19. What do you think they wrote? You got no idea	26:06
Rhonda Mawhood	They wrote stop on their papers—	26:37
Frances Hatch Jones	No.	26:39
Rhonda Mawhood	Or they wrote something else?	26:39
Frances Hatch Jones	No they didn't. They wrote P-O-T-S and I hollered.	26:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh.	26:44
Frances Hatch Jones	I hollered. They had it, but it just—I said, "Well, I never knew stop was pots." The supervisor came out. She was a retired school teacher. She said, "What in the world is everybody laughing about?" I say, "Just look." I rolled it on a rug. We had a rug where we laid the beds down. I laid one bed down there and I fell on that bed. I laughed that day till I [indistinct 00:27:11] cried.	26:44
Frances Hatch Jones	I said, "When you get up, maybe tomorrow—" Because when they got up at 2:00. I put them down right after lunch and I left at 2:00, but whenever they got up, that wasn't my business because I was gone. Because I'd work from 7:00, I opened the door to 2:00. The next day, they wrote them S-T-O-P just as pretty. I showed it to them where they had— You don't see out nobody's eyes but yours. I don't know how it went in the brain, but they had it. S-T-O-P, but wrote P-O-T-S. Lord. I laughed that day till I cried. I said, "Have you got it? What did it say?" "S-T-O-P." Do you see a car out there?	27:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Here? Oh, there's someone coming up the block here.	28:06
Frances Hatch Jones	You better unfasten me now. [INTERRUPTION].	28:12
Frances Hatch Jones	But I can make flowers. I don't know, look like my folks were industrial and people didn't let the children run in the streets. You had to pay attention to what was going on around you and I was one of those that was—liked to know everything. Nosy. And I enjoyed my people. My great-aunt died. My great-aunt sister died. My great-aunt that reared me died the 31st day of January. No, the 6th of January 1931. And her sister died the—Shirley, when was Nettie born?	28:12
Frances Hatch Jones	When was Nettie born?	29:02
Rhonda Mawhood	September 11th.	29:05
Frances Hatch Jones	September 11th, but she died somewhere in September, the eighth or ninth, 1949. Now, that was the last of my grandfather's people. And then, I buried my great aunt's daughter in '69. So, I don't know. We just kind of sticking together and I taught my children to stick it together. And so, if you just learn to help somebody, then your living won't be in vain. And I made that my policy. I got cans of fruit and beans and corn. People do. That's what I do. I'm not no big deal. Way back there in '68, the pastor says, "Mother Jones, I would like for you to be the superintendent of missionary." And I says, "Okay." He was always doing something. We'd have baptism, 8:00, I'd carry a pot of coffee. Lord have mercy. Here [indistinct 00:30:05]. 7:30, I was out there, forget to drink the coffee, got to go in that cold water.	29:06
Frances Hatch Jones	I don't care how hot the water is, a hot cup of coffee make you feel good in the wintertime. How you always thinking about somebody? I said, "Well, that's my bag, I guess. I don't know." Old folks taught me to do that. I used to have to go right across the street and pump some water for my neighbor. She was a elderly lady. My great aunt was there and she had her grand boy over there. I used say to myself, "Why in the world I got to go in there and pump her—" But I didn't say nothing back to her. I went over there and pumped the water, right? Everybody didn't have—we didn't have no refrigerator. We had ice boxes. And if the man wasn't there, the ice would be melted. Everybody didn't—now, everybody's got a push, plug, turn the button, mash and he ain't caring about nothing.	30:06
Frances Hatch Jones	And it's really pathetic. We've got to get a source in our mind where we going and what are we doing this for. And if you got your mind on money, you need to forget it. You need to get your mind on the glory of God. That's who causes you to live, lengthens out the threads of your life. I have played for in my church, grandmother and the grand baby. I said, "Now you all going to have to sing. My fingers are going, I do not see." Because the first time I went to choir practice in James City, I went to this person's house and her sister and the two girls are singing in my choir now. But I'm saying, to play for her sister's funeral and the grand baby at the same time. That's double. That was a kind of bitter pill. And I wasn't 77, I can't—I could take a little more 40. I can't take too much now.	30:56
Frances Hatch Jones	So I made it up in my mind to trust in the Lord and do good and I ain't fell off a pound. "Ms. Jones, I declare you look just like you did when we went to school." I said, "Thank you." To myself, "I know you lying, because my hair is gray and this and that." "But anyway, you don't change a bit." "Do you ever be mad?" I said, "What you going to be mad about? The good Lord let you wake up in this great big world and look at this sunshine." It's stupid. I used to get up and stretch. Get up and stretch. I don't get up now, I roll down, right on my knees. Talk to him early. Take me through this day if it's your will. I don't have no will. I want my will to be his will. If you say go, I ain't ready but I'm going.	32:10
Frances Hatch Jones	And all I said to myself, "I got a song we sing and oh my Lord, prepare my soul for that great day. Wash me in your precious blood and take my sins away." I ain't stunting these people. I ain't thinking about them. Some of them pass by here driving. I say, "I ain't up there, I'm down here." He'll go to the corner and turn around. "Mother Jones, I didn't see you." I said, "Well, you see me now. Come passing my house, I'll throw a brick out there." "Mother Jones, would you do me like that?" I said, "No, but don't act like you don't know." "I didn't see you." I said, "Well come on down to the nitty gritty. We all here together." My cousin, this first cousin's niece, fell right out there in the street, don't know what she fell over. Don't know what happened. Skinned her arm.	33:04
Frances Hatch Jones	Good evening, James. Skinned her arm. Hollering. I'm in the bathroom and I had the window up like this. "Francis. Francis. I said, "Who is that calling me so distressful?" You can't cut your water off, so I just had to finish and I got out there and this boy was sitting on the porch way down the street. Then he come running and got her up out the street and brought her in the house. Sat right there. I said, "Oh, Lord, you skinned that funny bone. So I put her in a pillowcase and called her husband. I said, "Come get her and carry her to the doctor. See what happen." She said, "Well, what did I fall over?" I said, "I don't know. I don't see not a limb, not nothing."	33:58
Frances Hatch Jones	My daughter, coming out the kitchen started down the hall and just fell. Broke her ankle about four months ago, but she's up on it now. She sang the last third Sunday. But I'm saying, you just pray. These things got to be. If you could look in the future, maybe you gone have car wreck. If you know that, you wouldn't go to back home that way, right? You go another way to avoid it and think who let him guide you. And if you let him guide you, you'll be all right. I'm finished.	34:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, Ms. Jones.	35:11
Frances Hatch Jones	I'm finished.	35:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I could.	35:13
Frances Hatch Jones	Uh-huh.	35:17
Frances Hatch Jones	We would cook. He'd feed his brothers children. We'd all eat together, sleep together. Had a big house on Elm Street. Eight rooms, so—ain't no talking about love ain't on both. We keep love on both and I've taught my children to help each other the same way. I don't like no division. Yes, I did. And if people brought a ticket, I'd go to sermons store. I think it's sermons store. Whatever, kites or heights or somebody down there. "What can we do for you, Ms. Jones?" I said, "I got to have some crackers right quick and two bags of potato chips." "I'll carry you down there." I said, "Well, come on." And I'd go up here and get something from this brand store. You don't go one way all the time. Told you, you got to make friends. And them people were in there.	35:17
Frances Hatch Jones	Enjoyed it. Made me feel good about it because I had a little girl about three, about four, and her grandmother brought her late. And when she got in this, she thought it was over. And this child has so much hair and she had gathered it back in a big bushy ponytail. And honey, she got that place. "Stepping up, stepping down, then a skip. Dolly, dear. Sandman's near, you will soon be sleeping." Throw the little hands up, let them know she was through and got up and took her bow. Cutest thing I'd ever seen. Honey, you talking about clapping? They were clapping. She's just about like that, but she had so much hair. Beautiful. And she sang it too. So see, once you get it in your bosom, you got it. Yes, she did. I was so proud. I didn't know what to do.	36:05
Frances Hatch Jones	I carried about nine children from here and I had eight that kept dropping off. Dropping off. You say you going to make a bargain. I'll get here. Now, one of the 17 parents here should bring me back home. I think that's fair. It started off fine. First year was beautiful. Next year come, [indistinct 00:37:28] you done had your music. Let's go. See, I don't know why we won't treat each other right.	36:59
Frances Hatch Jones	So after I nearly froze to death, they wanted me back. I've been back to Queens Chapel, which is not too far behind the church. Boy, we going hear something now. Somebody died down there and they had the funeral to the funeral parlor. You know Mayor Morgan?	37:39
Rhonda Mawhood	I spoke with him this morning. I haven't met him.	37:54
Frances Hatch Jones	Uh-huh. Well, I played to that office over here, undertaker parlor. "Ms. Jones, we're gone have a wake at 7:00. Can you come and help us?" I said, "Be right there." If I say I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. I try not to lie. I don't want to tell something that's not so. And that's what we've been doing. My children gave me a birthday party when I was 70. Surprise. I'm [indistinct 00:38:30] My daughter and I both [indistinct 00:38:33]. And she said the [indistinct 00:38:36] was going be there and be a special meeting and that birthday was on a Saturday and they going have some little civic groups. "But Mother, we just want you to open it up. And then they gone do what they gone do."	37:56
Frances Hatch Jones	And Mayor Morgan and another fella, he work for the dry cleaning place. They nice and tall. And they come picked me up and got me right away from the piano and carried me over and sat me in that seat. See them flowers?	38:47
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes ma'am.	39:01
Frances Hatch Jones	Them from my grandchildren and great grandchildren. They gave me a flower. I had some of them put them behind them and wouldn't give it to me. Then I make pretend I was going cry and they come back and give them to me. They had a time in that church. It was very, very nice. My pastor got up there and said, "This is your day, Francis Matilda—" I said, "Now, who told him that?" I know some of the children. "Francis Matilda Hatch Jones, this is your day." And after we got in there and sang the opening, then they took me away from the piano and my daughter played and they had their—whatever, tapes, up there. I'm telling you, it was a nice affair and the people that I had worked for, Dr. and Mrs. Simmons-Patterson, some students from Rabbit Hole, they were there. It was just like that. They got the video of it. One day when you come down, maybe next summer, get a chance, we'll just sit back and look at it. It was something going down.	39:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Sounds really nice.	40:00
Frances Hatch Jones	It was nice. Say, "You didn't invite me." I said, "Well [indistinct 00:40:06] passed the notes out to the churches when I wasn't there." And everybody kept—I say, "Y'all some quiet neighbors and I wouldn't have done you like that. I'd give you a tip." Because when I came back, I saw my silver tray gone. My punch bowl was gone and I didn't know what was happening. My son's girlfriend carried me to Cherry Point to see the Blue Angels. And when I came back, I saw my stuff was gone. I said, "Well. What's going on here?" You understand me? But I kept quiet. I didn't say nothing. I said, "Well, whoever got it, they'll bring it back." And honey, it was already to the church.	40:01
Rhonda Mawhood	That's First Baptist Church that you're a member of now, ma'am?	40:43
Frances Hatch Jones	Yes ma'am.	40:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Okay. And you used to be a member of [indistinct 00:40:52]?	40:50
Frances Hatch Jones	Way back, yeah.	40:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Is that right? Okay.	40:51
Frances Hatch Jones	That was my first church. That's where my daddy belonged. And then, First Baptist is where I belong. And I've been at Pilgrim Chapel in James City 39 years.	40:55
Rhonda Mawhood	And you play there at Pilgrim Chapel?	41:11
Frances Hatch Jones	Pilgrim Chapel, 30—this is last Sunday's, right? Here is a bulletin from last Sunday's program. Would you like to have it?	41:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, thank you so much.	41:33
Frances Hatch Jones	I don't know what they sang, because I wasn't there. I was over yonder. I don't know why she got this card on here, but I'll give it to you. This is the church.	41:36
Rhonda Mawhood	Your daughter doesn't want to keep that?	41:45
Frances Hatch Jones	Shirley? No, she always gives me one. Takes one for me.	41:47
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you.	41:51
Frances Hatch Jones	And by the hustle and bustle of the funeral, she just didn't give it to me, so it's all right.	41:52
Rhonda Mawhood	That's very nice. Thank you very much.	41:57
Frances Hatch Jones	Uh-huh.	41:57
Rhonda Mawhood	I'll put that with your uncle's book.	41:59
Frances Hatch Jones	Right. Our hym is "Jesus is all the world to me." That's my specialty. And the next one is my prayer group theme. "Great is thy faithfulness." "Great is thy faithfulness."	42:02
Frances Hatch Jones	Right?	42:40
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, ma'am. All right. Thank you.	42:48

Item Info

Title:

Frances Jones interview recording, 1993 August 03

Date:

August 3, 1993

Creator:

Jones, Frances Hatch

Contributor:

Mawhood, Rhonda Lyn

Description:

Name: Frances Hatch Jones; Date of birth: 1916-06-07; Place of birth: Norwalk, CN; Occupation(s): domestic; musician; educator; Residence: New Bern, NC
Informant ID: 276; Interviewed by: Rhonda Mawhood.

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English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 700
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Frances Jones interview recording, 1993 August 03

Transcript

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1. Frances Jones administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Frances Jones interview recording, 1993 August 03

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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