Mary League interview recording, 1993 July 29
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Karen Ferguson | Mrs. League, could you tell me a little bit about the community in which you grew up and about the people you grew up with? | 0:02 |
Mary Jones League | Well, the community that I grew up in was a poor community. We all rented our homes and we went to church and Sunday school, and we went to school together. Of course it was a segregated school. | 0:13 |
Karen Ferguson | And was this around where you're living right now? | 0:48 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 0:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Where was it? | 0:50 |
Mary Jones League | No, it was up on what is known as First Street. At that time it was known as End Street? | 0:52 |
Karen Ferguson | End Street? | 0:59 |
Mary Jones League | Uh-huh. E-N-D. | 0:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 1:01 |
Mary Jones League | And it leads into the Pembroke community. | 1:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. Now, you said it was a very poor community. | 1:04 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 1:08 |
Karen Ferguson | What did people do for a living in that area? | 1:09 |
Mary Jones League | Well, my father was a fireman at the plant there. The plant made the electricity and he had one of the better jobs, and he made $3 a day while most other men made 50 cents a day. And of course it was very hard work. He was on a shift. He changed his work every week, and we lived across the street from the plant where he worked. | 1:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did most men work at the plant? | 1:48 |
Mary Jones League | Not a lot of men. | 1:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What did they do generally for a living? | 1:56 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they did whatever they could. Some of them worked at the sawmills at that time. | 1:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Sawmills, okay. | 2:02 |
Mary Jones League | Now, Cherry Point came later. But my father was a very poor man. He came up poor. He lost his father when he was three years old. And at that time they didn't have any means to take care of the children. But he was a hard worker and he was very interested in his children getting an education, which we did. There were five of us and four of us became college graduates. And before we left off of First Street, which was End Street at that time, my father was determined to have a home for us. So, next door, he rented a house. He had bought a little house on Third Avenue, and in this house he bought lumber and put in that house until he got enough to just about build our home. | 2:06 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. So, he was renting a house so he could put the lumber—store it inside? | 3:11 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 3:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 3:14 |
Mary Jones League | And so he did build that house. And he was determined that we got an education. And he would always tell my mother, "Be sure that the boys have a plenty to eat, because I don't want them to steal." I had a lovely father. He didn't have an education. He did the work, and my mother was a planner. She sold for all of us, boys and girls. | 3:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Now you say she was a planner. What do you mean by that? | 3:48 |
Mary Jones League | Well, she just took care all of the business. | 3:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 3:54 |
Mary Jones League | Because she did have schooling. She went up to the 7th grade. | 3:54 |
Karen Ferguson | 7th grade. Okay. | 3:58 |
Mary Jones League | So, she had schooling, but he did not. He came up very poor, and he and his mother did not live right here in New Bern, they lived about three miles out. And he and his brother fished a lot, especially on Saturday. And they would come back with a string of fish and they would trade the fish to the White people for other things. | 4:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Now do you know very much about your father's people? Did you know your grandmother? | 4:30 |
Mary Jones League | No, I did not know my grandmother, but I heard of my grandmother. My grandfather worked on a boat and he got killed on that boat. | 4:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Was he a fisherman then? | 4:46 |
Mary Jones League | I don't know what they were doing on that boat. I really don't. | 4:49 |
Karen Ferguson | And what was this community where he grew up, your father grew up? | 4:53 |
Mary Jones League | It was mostly called the Rocky Run. | 4:57 |
Karen Ferguson | The Rocky Run? | 5:00 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Community. But it's just about five miles out from New Bern. | 5:00 |
Karen Ferguson | How about your mother, was she from New Bern? | 5:05 |
Mary Jones League | She was from the same section. My father was about three miles out and my mother was about five miles out. | 5:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And they both were from Rocky Run? | 5:16 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 5:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you know why they moved to New Bern? | 5:20 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 5:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Why? | 5:22 |
Mary Jones League | My father was not a farmer and he wanted some other kind of work. | 5:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So, he had been farming? His family had been farming? | 5:28 |
Mary Jones League | Very little, because he didn't have a father. And I really don't know what my grandmother did, because I never knew her. | 5:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 5:42 |
Mary Jones League | And I didn't know my grandparents on my mother's side personally, but I had heard of them. Now, my father's father was a slave owner. | 5:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, your father's father? | 5:56 |
Mary Jones League | My mother's father— | 5:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Mother. Okay. | 5:58 |
Mary Jones League | —was a slave owner and he was given the family name Frazelle, and he didn't have to work in the fields. | 6:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, he was White? | 6:08 |
Mary Jones League | Well, he was considered Black. | 6:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 6:15 |
Mary Jones League | But his father was White. | 6:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. I understand. Now, this was your— | 6:17 |
Mary Jones League | My mother's father. | 6:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. | 6:21 |
Mary Jones League | But I did not know him. My mother said he died nine days before I was born. So, I really haven't had the pleasure of grandparents. | 6:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, was your mother farming as well when she grew up? | 6:38 |
Mary Jones League | Her father was. | 6:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did they own their own land? | 6:47 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 6:49 |
Karen Ferguson | They did? | 6:49 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. And a home too. But now how they got it, I don't know. He had a White father and the father was wealthy. | 6:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now your father's family, did they own any land? | 6:59 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 7:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 7:08 |
Mary Jones League | No, they did not. | 7:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now was the Pembroke community considered part of New Bern when you grew up? | 7:14 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they always called it Pembroke, but I don't know how the people got their mail. | 7:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 7:23 |
Mary Jones League | I don't know whether they say New Bern. I know now they say New Bern, but back then, I don't know whether they said Pembroke or Newbern. | 7:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, was Pembroke an all Black community? | 7:32 |
Mary Jones League | Mostly. | 7:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Mostly? | 7:36 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. On one end, but on the other end there were White people, because the country club was back there [indistinct 00:07:46]. And my oldest brother used to be a caddy back there. | 7:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did other people work at the country club too who lived in your neighborhood? | 7:52 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 7:57 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 7:58 |
Mary Jones League | No, just the caddy boys. | 7:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now did people work in White people's homes in Pembroke, do you think? | 8:01 |
Mary Jones League | I don't know. | 8:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 8:11 |
Mary Jones League | I guess they did, but I don't know. | 8:12 |
Karen Ferguson | What did most of the women do for a living in your neighborhood? Did they stay home or did they go to work? | 8:13 |
Mary Jones League | They worked wherever they could, whether it was with a family, some worked in the seasonal fields and things of that sort. | 8:19 |
Karen Ferguson | What are the seasonal fields? | 8:29 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they don't have them now, but there used to be some men who raised potatoes and beans and things of that sort. And when those things were ready, the people went. | 8:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you ever do that work? | 8:42 |
Mary Jones League | I had one job in New Bern. One job. And I worked for the people who owned the bus station. | 8:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 8:55 |
Mary Jones League | They lived on East Front Street, downtown. I was the first person downtown in the morning and the last person to come up in the afternoon. The bus station was over here. At that time we had moved to Third Avenue, and I was just out of high school. And because my father had built that house, I could not go to college that year. So, I worked and I got $3 and 50 cents a week. | 8:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Now you said you were the first person out in the morning in the last to come home. | 9:28 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 9:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, was it a very difficult job that you had with them? | 9:36 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, you couldn't please that lady. | 9:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, really? | 9:41 |
Mary Jones League | You could not please her. And I did the cooking. | 9:41 |
Karen Ferguson | You did the cooking? | 9:47 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, I did the cooking. And she would outline something for you to do all day, every day. Clean this silver, clean that silver. You didn't have any time to sit down. She was really a slave driver, and so I decided to leave her. And when I left her, she went to my father and tried to make me go back to work. And even after I had gone to college, she tried to get me to come back, but I would not go back. | 9:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Now what did your father do when she came to try to convince him to get— | 10:27 |
Mary Jones League | He said, "No, she will not be going back." | 10:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 10:35 |
Mary Jones League | Never a Sunday off. She said, "You didn't ask for one." | 10:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 10:39 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I was young. I had never had a job like that before, and I really didn't know the ropes. | 10:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Now did your mother ever work in people's homes? | 10:47 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 10:49 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 10:49 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 10:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 10:49 |
Mary Jones League | Nor in any field. | 10:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 10:52 |
Mary Jones League | She stayed home and prepared for her family. As I say, she was the planner. | 10:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 10:59 |
Mary Jones League | She sold for all of us, even the boys. She was just the planner. | 11:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now this job you had, was it considered a good job? | 11:06 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 11:14 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 11:14 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 11:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Did this woman have other people working for her as well? | 11:19 |
Mary Jones League | Later on she had—I did the kitchen and she had somebody else to do the cleaning of the other part of the house. And she had a dog and she had carpet, and you had to take a brush and doing it like that. And that was hard. Not a vacuum. | 11:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 11:41 |
Mary Jones League | That was hard. | 11:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. I'm sure. Now was your job better than this other person who was cleaning the rest of the house? Was your job in the kitchen, do you think, was it better paying? | 11:47 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 11:54 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 11:54 |
Mary Jones League | No. I really don't know what she paid her, but she paid me $3.50. | 11:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Could you tell me a little bit about your neighbors in Pembroke? Was it a close-knit community? | 11:59 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I did not live in Pembroke. | 12:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you didn't? | 12:15 |
Mary Jones League | No, I lived on First Street. | 12:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. Oh, I thought that was part of Pembroke. I'm sorry. | 12:17 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 12:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 12:23 |
Mary Jones League | But they got along well, so far as I know. Now, that community has built up considerably. | 12:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. No, but well then on End Street, can you tell me a little bit about that community? Was it close-knit there? Did people help each other out? | 12:30 |
Mary Jones League | Well, the next door neighbor and my family were very close, but some of them, you just didn't want to be with them. | 12:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Why was that? | 12:50 |
Mary Jones League | Well, one family I know was not clean. Now, some of them we did associate with. | 12:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 12:59 |
Mary Jones League | But there's one family in particular, they did not keep their house, they did not keep their children clean and things of that sort. And up on First Street, we had kind of a hard time. Now we didn't have any running water or anything like that, and we had to come out on Queen Street to get a pail of water. | 13:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, there were community wells or something too? | 13:27 |
Mary Jones League | It was a hydrant. | 13:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, a hydrant. | 13:31 |
Mary Jones League | And that's where we got our water for a long time. But finally they did put one spigot at one of the houses back there. Now for washing, my father would bring the water from the water plant, because we lived right across the street. For bathing, the same thing. But for cooking, we had to go all the way to Queen Street to get water. | 13:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Now was this hydrant, was it set up for people to take water from there? | 13:55 |
Mary Jones League | Well, it was just there. | 13:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that was the only place you could get it? | 13:59 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Mm-hmm. We didn't have any conveniences. | 14:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 14:08 |
Mary Jones League | We had outdoor privies and things of that sort. | 14:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you have electricity? | 14:12 |
Mary Jones League | My brother put some electricity in the house, in the house we lived in. | 14:16 |
Karen Ferguson | So, you always had electricity? | 14:21 |
Mary Jones League | Not always. | 14:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 14:23 |
Mary Jones League | But we finally got it, because he was a lineman for the city, and he put it in. | 14:25 |
Karen Ferguson | And did anybody else get electricity on your street, or was it just your house? | 14:35 |
Mary Jones League | Eventually. | 14:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, but your house was first? | 14:39 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 14:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now how did that change things for you to get electricity in your house? Do you remember there being any change in your life, or with the life at home? | 14:43 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Because we had to study and we had better light. And then any other thing that you use electricity for, the radio and things of that sort. | 14:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. What do you remember doing for fun when you were a young girl in your neighborhood? | 15:16 |
Mary Jones League | Well, in my particular neighborhood, didn't do anything. But we would go to other neighborhoods, to parties, mostly church parties, things of that sort. That's about it. | 15:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now why didn't you do any of this entertaining in your neighborhood? | 15:42 |
Mary Jones League | Well, my house wasn't suitable for it, to tell you the truth. | 15:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Right. Right. Would you bring your friends to your house ever? | 15:51 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 15:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Yes. | 16:00 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 16:00 |
Karen Ferguson | And you'd go to their house? | 16:00 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. And that was about it. You'd always have one good friend that you would visit, and she would visit you. | 16:00 |
Karen Ferguson | And where did you make your friends? | 16:10 |
Mary Jones League | Mostly at school and church. | 16:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What church did you go to as a child? | 16:14 |
Mary Jones League | I still go to it. | 16:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 16:18 |
Mary Jones League | Clinton Chapel AME Zion Church. | 16:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What kind of people went to Clinton Chapel? | 16:22 |
Mary Jones League | Good people. | 16:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Good people? | 16:33 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. And they still do. | 16:34 |
Karen Ferguson | What did they do for a living, mainly? Do you remember? | 16:38 |
Mary Jones League | Well, as I said, some of them worked at the mill. And in latter years, Cherry Point was a big help. A lot of them worked at Cherry Point. | 16:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 16:51 |
Mary Jones League | But mill work and carpentry work and, well, construction work, whatever they could do, because they were not educated, so they just did common labor. | 16:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there any professionals, teachers or doctors or business people that went to your church? | 17:12 |
Mary Jones League | We had some business people, but we didn't have lawyers or doctors, and still don't. | 17:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. What kind of businesses did they run, these people? | 17:29 |
Mary Jones League | Mostly stores. | 17:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 17:41 |
Mary Jones League | And not too many of those. | 17:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. When you went shopping, did you go to Black owned stores or White owned stores mainly? | 17:46 |
Mary Jones League | Mainly White. | 17:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 17:58 |
Mary Jones League | Like AMP, because you could get things cheaper. | 17:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Was there always an AMP here that you can remember? | 18:01 |
Mary Jones League | Well, it isn't here now, because we have many others. But when I was a child growing up, they had an AMP. | 18:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 18:18 |
Mary Jones League | Because I remember getting a Mr. Goodbar for four cents. | 18:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you get an allowance when you were growing up? | 18:29 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 18:31 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 18:32 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 18:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Would you ever have a little bit of money? | 18:34 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, I would have some money. And at that time, even in the 5th grade, I learned to save. | 18:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you did? | 18:47 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. When I got my money. Well, I wouldn't say I'd have an allowance, they'd give me what they could. But every Monday at lunchtime I would go downtown and take this quarter and let it stay in the bank until Christmas, and that's how I got my Christmas money. | 18:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. So, you'd buy presents with that? | 19:08 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Do whatever I wanted to do with it, because it was mine. | 19:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 19:13 |
Mary Jones League | But my parents came first. | 19:14 |
Karen Ferguson | What was Christmas like at your home? | 19:17 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, it was a lovely time. We didn't get a whole lot of toys and things like that, but it used to be a train that would come in and bring fruit. And my father would always go and get this fruit and bring it back on his back for us at Christmas and buy a five pound bag of chocolate candy. And of course, we had plenty of food. And my mother was a good cook. | 19:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have much family living close to you? Other kids? | 19:52 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 19:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 19:55 |
Mary Jones League | We didn't have any. | 19:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 19:56 |
Mary Jones League | But they weren't far, because they were just five miles out in the Rocky Run area. | 19:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 20:02 |
Mary Jones League | And they had to come to New Bern to do their shopping. | 20:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. How would they come in? Would they walk, or would they— | 20:08 |
Mary Jones League | No, they had a buggy and a horse. | 20:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. All right. | 20:15 |
Mary Jones League | That's the way they'd travel. | 20:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now did you go to Rocky Run very often? | 20:23 |
Mary Jones League | Not too often. | 20:25 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 20:26 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 20:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, your father built a house, and that was on Third Avenue? | 20:27 |
Mary Jones League | Third Avenue. Nice large house. | 20:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. And what was the house that you had lived in previous to moving into this house he built? | 20:40 |
Mary Jones League | It was a rental house on First Street. | 20:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And how many rooms did it have? | 20:49 |
Mary Jones League | It's been so long ago. I know it didn't have over three bedrooms, if it had that many. | 20:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. And the kitchen? | 21:04 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah, a little kitchen and a little dining room as we used as a sitting room and an ironing room. | 21:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Ironing room. | 21:16 |
Mary Jones League | That's what it was used for. And I don't know if you know about these little heaters that you could put irons around? | 21:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 21:25 |
Mary Jones League | What do you call them? | 21:26 |
Karen Ferguson | I'm not sure what. And was this on the stove? | 21:26 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 21:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 21:30 |
Mary Jones League | Well, so she could iron, she could cook, and that would be a way of heating up the house too. | 21:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 21:39 |
Mary Jones League | At least that one room. | 21:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. What kinds of jobs did you have to do around the house when you were young? | 21:42 |
Mary Jones League | All of them. | 21:47 |
Karen Ferguson | All of them? | 21:47 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 21:47 |
Karen Ferguson | So, you learned to cook? | 21:52 |
Mary Jones League | No, I didn't have to do much cooking. And our house on Third Avenue was a large house, so my mother loved to cook. She did the cooking. I had one sister and I cleaned upstairs and she cleaned down. | 21:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 22:12 |
Mary Jones League | And there we had four bedrooms. | 22:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, what did the boys in the family have to do around the house? | 22:14 |
Mary Jones League | My brothers were very smart, and they got—well, they had some friends too. They got jobs doing office work. I don't mean—just working around the offices after they got out of school and like that. And in the summertime during the tobacco season when they were in school, they worked in tobacco. | 22:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. And where would they go to do that? | 22:47 |
Mary Jones League | Rocky Run area. | 22:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. So, would they live in Rocky Run, or would they stay— | 22:48 |
Mary Jones League | Sometimes, because we had cousins. | 22:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 22:56 |
Mary Jones League | Most of the time when they were boys, they didn't have a car. | 22:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, where did you go to school when you were—What school did you start going to? | 23:03 |
Mary Jones League | You mean college, or school? | 23:12 |
Karen Ferguson | No, schools here in New Bern. | 23:13 |
Mary Jones League | West Street. | 23:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And was that for high school and elementary school? | 23:15 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, it was. | 23:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 23:16 |
Mary Jones League | That's right on that street over there. | 23:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember any favorite teachers? | 23:25 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. I had a teacher by the name Mrs. Letlow, and I had a teacher by the name of Ms. White. I had several that I liked. | 23:29 |
Karen Ferguson | And what did you like about these teachers? | 23:46 |
Mary Jones League | They were just good. | 23:49 |
Karen Ferguson | How so? What would they do? | 23:51 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I did well, and of course they encouraged me, things like that. I didn't have any that I really disliked. There was a man teacher by the name of Mr. Brown, I liked him a lot. And I didn't dislike any other. | 23:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember your teachers playing favorites ever with students? | 24:16 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah, because I was one of them. | 24:21 |
Karen Ferguson | You were one of the favorite. Why do you think you were a favorite? | 24:22 |
Mary Jones League | Because you can tell. | 24:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. Yeah. But why do you think that they liked you so much? | 24:31 |
Mary Jones League | Maybe it was because of my personality and things that I tried to do. I was interested in my work. | 24:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did you know that you wanted to become a teacher from the beginning? | 24:41 |
Mary Jones League | Well, yes, because that was about the only thing Blacks could do. | 24:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Were there other people, other than the teachers at school whom you really looked up to when you were growing up? Other adults in your community? | 24:54 |
Mary Jones League | A lot of people in my church. | 25:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 25:15 |
Mary Jones League | Those who have succeeded, I would say I would like to be like them, things of that type. | 25:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did these people encourage you? | 25:21 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. | 25:21 |
Karen Ferguson | How so? | 25:21 |
Mary Jones League | "Stay in school, be a good girl. Don't get pregnant." Things of that type, which were good. | 25:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Were there girls who got pregnant at school? | 25:44 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. | 25:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? And what happened? | 25:47 |
Mary Jones League | That's always the case. They just had babies. And at that time, if you had a baby, you weren't recognized too much. | 25:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So, what would happen if a girl in high school got pregnant? | 25:57 |
Mary Jones League | She'd have to drop out, because they didn't let them continue in school. | 26:04 |
Karen Ferguson | When you say that she wouldn't be recognized anymore, what would happen to her in the community? | 26:13 |
Mary Jones League | Well, she would still go on, but you just come down a notch or two. | 26:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 26:28 |
Mary Jones League | But now it's different. | 26:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, you think most of the children you began school with finished high school when you started in the elementary? | 26:31 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 26:44 |
Karen Ferguson | So, people in New Bern mainly finished high school? | 26:46 |
Mary Jones League | In my class, most of them continued, but you always have dropouts for some reason or another. | 26:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Why do you think the people who did dropout did do that? | 26:56 |
Mary Jones League | Well, some had babies and then some were not interested anymore, things of that sort. And some dropped out the work to help out with the family. | 27:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, do you think it was more boys or more girls who had to drop out? | 27:15 |
Mary Jones League | Let me see. I don't know, it has really been so long. | 27:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. Were there any bad parts of town you weren't allowed to go to when you were growing up? Your parents told you, you shouldn't go to these areas? | 27:33 |
Mary Jones League | The Duffyfield area. | 27:52 |
Karen Ferguson | The Doviefield? | 27:52 |
Mary Jones League | Duffy. | 27:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Duffyfield area? | 27:54 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 27:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Where was that? | 27:54 |
Mary Jones League | The Duffyfield area, you haven't been over in the area of—well, there's two schools, one school in operation over that way now, that's on Cobb Street. Have you been to anybody on Cobb Street? | 27:59 |
Karen Ferguson | No. No. | 28:18 |
Mary Jones League | Well, it's in that area and it's still not a nice area. | 28:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. What was it about it when you were growing up that your parents—why did your parents not want you to go there? | 28:24 |
Mary Jones League | Well, because the children on that side did not like the children on this side. So, for that reason we just didn't go. | 28:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What did they do? How did they behave that made your parents not want you to be with them? | 28:45 |
Mary Jones League | Well, there was biscuit sold in that area, just like now. It's a dope area. | 28:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. What kind of values do you think your parents instilled in you? | 29:00 |
Mary Jones League | Good values. The best. | 29:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What were they? | 29:13 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they wanted all of us to get an education. They wanted all of us to be good people, church going people, and we succeeded. | 29:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 29:27 |
Mary Jones League | There were five of us and four of us received a college education. | 29:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Why do you think it was so important to your father that you did an education? | 29:37 |
Mary Jones League | Because he didn't have a chance at all, and he knew what it was like because he couldn't read. | 29:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Did he ever learn to read? | 29:46 |
Mary Jones League | Not very well. | 29:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 29:48 |
Mary Jones League | He did the best he could. | 29:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you always want to go to college? | 29:55 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 29:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 29:57 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 29:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you go to college? | 30:00 |
Mary Jones League | I went, at that time it was Winston-Salem Teachers College, and I went to Columbia University. | 30:02 |
Karen Ferguson | To get your Master's? | 30:09 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 30:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you said you weren't able to go to college right after school. | 30:12 |
Mary Jones League | In the first year, because of the building of this house. And when my father finished the house, he owed $400 and he wanted to get that debt off and I didn't go to college. | 30:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So, did you pay your own way through college? | 30:32 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. I worked and my parents did the rest. I worked the four years. | 30:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Oh, worked all four years. Okay. Now, when you were working, were you giving your money to your parents that year that you had to stay home? | 30:44 |
Mary Jones League | Say what? No. | 30:55 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 30:56 |
Mary Jones League | No. I could have my own money to buy my clothes. | 30:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, had you been anywhere other than New Bern, when you went to Winston-Salem? | 31:00 |
Mary Jones League | Had I been anywhere? | 31:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Else? | 31:10 |
Mary Jones League | You mean to visit or something? | 31:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 31:15 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. I had been to Knoxville, Tennessee as a delegate from the Sunday School. | 31:16 |
Karen Ferguson | And had that been an exciting trip for you? | 31:22 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. Because I'd never been in the mountains before. | 31:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. How did you get there? | 31:31 |
Mary Jones League | Well, there were others who were going, Emmy Motors. | 31:34 |
Karen Ferguson | In people's cars or in a box— | 31:39 |
Mary Jones League | In a car. | 31:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Was there anything that you found particularly surprising on that trip? | 31:45 |
Mary Jones League | The mountains. | 31:49 |
Karen Ferguson | The mountains? | 31:49 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. | 31:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. You like that? | 31:51 |
Mary Jones League | To visit, not to stay. | 31:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Now, when you went to Winston-Salem State, were you homesick at all? | 31:58 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 32:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Yes. Now, did that last long? | 32:07 |
Mary Jones League | Well, for a while. But I heard from my parents so much and everything, and then I came home for Christmas. The only time I ever came home during the four years would be Christmas. But after learning friends and all, it got better. | 32:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Did you like being in a bigger place? | 32:28 |
Mary Jones League | No, I didn't like it any better. | 32:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What was the biggest difference between Winston-Salem and New Bern do you think? | 32:39 |
Mary Jones League | The one thing—the biggest difference? | 32:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Or some of the differences. | 32:50 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I had never lived in anything like a dormitory before, that was different. And the food was different, because I gained—from the time I went in the fall until Christmas, I had outgrown my clothes. When I came back for Christmas, they had to buy me a new wardrobe. And, well, the rules were different. As soon as you finished your dinner, you had to go in the dormitory for good. At home you could come sit on the porch a while and things like that, and all that was different. And then you had a certain time every day that you got your meals. That wasn't always true at home. | 32:55 |
Mary Jones League | And at home you might do some visiting after you have your dinner. Well, you did visit in the dormitory, but not outside. Things like that, those were different. | 33:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you said that the food was different. Were you getting more food than you were getting at home? | 34:04 |
Mary Jones League | I was getting more fat food, because I had never eaten a pinto bean in my life. | 34:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, really? | 34:14 |
Mary Jones League | Things like that. And it just made me— | 34:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Were there other kinds of foods that were different? | 34:21 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they were cooked differently. They weren't as good. But when you're cooking for 200, 300 people, it's not going to be as good. | 34:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, when you were at college, did you join a sorority? | 34:34 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 34:39 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 34:40 |
Mary Jones League | We didn't have a girl sorority. There were was one for the men, but not one for the ladies. And of course, after getting out of college, I wasn't interested anymore. | 34:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Why didn't you join as a graduate member of a sorority? | 34:50 |
Mary Jones League | Well, as I say, we didn't have it there. And to come home and getting one, that wasn't my thing. | 34:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, have you belonged to any civic organizations, any women's groups or anything? | 35:03 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 35:10 |
Karen Ferguson | What are those? | 35:11 |
Mary Jones League | I belong to the Climbers Club. I belong to the Arts and Crafts Club. And of course, in my church, I belong to a lot of them. | 35:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And why did you join a group like the Climbers Club? | 35:23 |
Mary Jones League | And then the Retired Teachers too. Well, my husband died and I was here alone, and I could be with friends. | 35:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. But just when had come out of college, or when you came back to New Bern, did you join any groups like that, like the Climbers Club? | 35:42 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 35:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 35:51 |
Mary Jones League | Just church clubs, and that's enough to keep me busy right now. | 35:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, what have your church clubs meant to you in your life, do you think? Why did you join them, and what kind of satisfaction have you gotten out of them? | 35:58 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I joined the Sunday school because that's a good way to learn about the Bible. And then we have the missionaries, there's several parts to that, and students boards. And I enjoy being with the people. I really do. Just like this coming Saturday morning, I'm going to a missionary meeting in Pollocksville. I enjoyed it. | 36:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, where did you meet your husband? | 36:48 |
Mary Jones League | Right here. | 36:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right here? | 36:52 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 36:53 |
Karen Ferguson | And did you meet him before you went away to college? | 36:53 |
Mary Jones League | No, that was after. He was the minister of my church. | 36:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, he was? I see. Okay. | 37:01 |
Mary Jones League | And that's how we met. | 37:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. So now, what was your courtship like? Did he—sorry, what was your courtship like? | 37:07 |
Mary Jones League | It was nice. | 37:13 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you two do together? | 37:14 |
Mary Jones League | Well, being the minister, we went to church a lot. And then sometimes there would be an activity in the city that we went to, things like that. But mostly church. | 37:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were there certain restrictions on your behavior and so on because you were engaged to a minister? | 37:34 |
Mary Jones League | Well, people watched me, I'm sure they did. | 37:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Did that bother you at all? | 37:45 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 37:48 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 37:51 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 37:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, he continued to be the minister of your church after? | 37:51 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 37:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, what responsibilities do a minister's wife have to their community, and what kind of role model do they have to be? | 37:57 |
Mary Jones League | Well, you have to be on your Ps and Qs all the time, because some of them perhaps are on a pattern after you. And so they come to you for various things and you give them the best advice that you know and things of that sort. | 38:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Was that ever hard for you? | 38:28 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 38:32 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 38:32 |
Mary Jones League | No, because I always considered myself as a good person, and I had nothing to hide. | 38:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Were your parents concerned about you marrying a minister? | 38:42 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 38:49 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 38:50 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 38:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Did they like that idea? | 38:51 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah, it was all right. | 38:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. Now, did you know what you were getting into marrying a minister as well? Did you know what your role would have to be? | 38:57 |
Mary Jones League | I had an idea. | 39:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 39:03 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 39:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. Now, your husband, was he from New Bern? | 39:08 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 39:10 |
Karen Ferguson | No? Where was he from? | 39:11 |
Mary Jones League | He was originally from Tennessee. | 39:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, from Tennessee. And had he gone to seminary? | 39:14 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 39:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Where was that? | 39:23 |
Mary Jones League | Livingstone College in Salisbury. | 39:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have any children? | 39:37 |
Mary Jones League | I didn't, but he did. | 39:38 |
Karen Ferguson | So, he had been married previously? | 39:40 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. His wife was dead. | 39:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So, did you help raise his children? | 39:43 |
Mary Jones League | One. | 39:45 |
Karen Ferguson | One of them. | 39:46 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 39:47 |
Karen Ferguson | And was that hard for you to do? | 39:49 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 39:50 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 39:50 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 39:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Could you tell me a little bit about the signs of segregation in New Bern when you were growing up? What was segregated? Where were Blacks not allowed to go, and where could they go? | 40:04 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they could not go in eating places. Then they could not go there. And we didn't go to their theaters, we had our own. And we didn't go to their churches. | 40:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 40:36 |
Mary Jones League | Well, any activities that the White people had, we could not go. And of course, we were used to that, so we planned our own activities. | 40:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did White people ever come to your activities, to your section of town, or to the cafés or anything? | 40:49 |
Mary Jones League | Now, I don't know whether they went to the cafés or not, I don't know. I never saw any while I was there. But whether they came, I could not say. Because they could go where they wanted to go and nothing would happen, but we couldn't, and we were used to that. | 41:02 |
Karen Ferguson | So, do you remember White people ever being in your neighborhood? Coming to your neighborhood for any reason? | 41:23 |
Mary Jones League | Well, now they has insurance collectors and things like that. They would come. If it was a business matter, they would come. But just ordinarily, no. | 41:31 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Could you go into all shops in town? | 41:48 |
Mary Jones League | Anywhere that they had something to sell like clothing, shoes and like that, you could go? | 41:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Were you treated well by the sales people in those shops? | 42:01 |
Mary Jones League | Well, in the shoe shops, I mean shoe stores are like that. But now we had used to have a Crest here, and they had a candy counter. Well, you could go and stand to this candy counter and be there and a White person come, and that White person was going to be served before you. Now, I've had that happen to me many times, and sometimes you just get disgusted and walk out. | 42:05 |
Karen Ferguson | So, it was only at the candy counter that that happened? | 42:34 |
Mary Jones League | Well, that's the only place I ever had any trouble. | 42:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Do you remember anything called a June German dance? | 42:51 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm, but I was no part of that. | 42:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, what was that? I just heard someone talk about it the other day, but I wasn't clear. | 42:57 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they used to have one in New York, and then they would come down here and have it, but I never went to anything like that, so I couldn't tell you about it. | 43:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Well, did they have musicians that came down, or was it just— | 43:16 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 43:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. And then they came here. | 43:17 |
Mary Jones League | I say they came down, I don't know where they came from. I don't know what musicians they had. I don't know, but I remember them having this dance. | 43:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. So, would they come every year? | 43:29 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 43:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And was this when you were still a girl, or was this after you've been married? | 43:34 |
Mary Jones League | This has been since I've been right here. | 43:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, okay. In this house here? | 43:42 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 43:43 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. Now, when did you and your husband buy this house here? | 43:46 |
Mary Jones League | We had this house built in 1954. | 43:50 |
Karen Ferguson | 1954. Okay. Did you have any trouble getting a loan or credit for the house? | 43:53 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 44:03 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 44:05 |
Mary Jones League | No, but it was because, well, my family had been dealing with this bank for years, and then we had a part of our money, and we didn't need a whole lot of money. | 44:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, who had your family been dealing with? What man had this been? | 44:17 |
Mary Jones League | This was the bank. | 44:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, the banker at the bank. Did you have friends who did have difficulty getting credit or getting loans for their houses? | 44:26 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah, they did. I did not know it. | 44:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Do you think that White people or the powerful White people in Newbern ever worked to keep Blacks from getting too prosperous in this area? | 44:32 |
Mary Jones League | I do not know. | 44:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. You never remember any incident of that happening? | 44:54 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. I don't. | 45:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. How about the police? Did the police treat Black people fairly, do you think, when you were growing up? | 45:05 |
Mary Jones League | Not in all cases. | 45:10 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 45:11 |
Mary Jones League | Hm-mm. | 45:12 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of things would they do, treating people unfairly? | 45:13 |
Mary Jones League | Well, it's almost like it is today. If you are Black, you just have a tougher time. You really do in most cases. Now, I won't say in most, I'll say in some of the cases. | 45:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your parents ever tell you to beware of the police or to stay away from— | 45:31 |
Mary Jones League | No, they didn't have to tell us to beware. Just do what you're supposed to do and act like you're supposed to do and you won't have any trouble. And then another thing, of course I don't guess that would have helped any, my father and my brother both worked for the city and the policemen worked for the city too, so they knew them very well. | 45:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So you think that might have helped them a little bit? | 46:02 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I don't know. They never did anything to need help. | 46:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. | 46:12 |
Mary Jones League | College and I've been voting ever since. | 0:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 0:03 |
Mary Jones League | I missed one time and I had a reason for doing that. | 0:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, so you were always able to register without any problem? | 0:07 |
Mary Jones League | Well, when I registered, even though I had finished college, I had to read. | 0:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. The Constitution. | 0:20 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 0:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 0:20 |
Mary Jones League | And after then, I didn't have any trouble, but I had to do that and I can remember what the man said to me. I always remember he said, "Well, you have one thing that nobody can take from you," and he was telling the truth. | 0:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 0:36 |
Mary Jones League | Because I had been to college. | 0:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Okay. Now you would you like to finish up? | 0:43 |
Mary Jones League | Go ahead. | 0:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 0:46 |
Mary Jones League | I'll give you a little bit more time. | 0:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. Did you get a teaching job as soon as you got out of college? | 0:54 |
Mary Jones League | I had one before I left college. | 0:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 0:58 |
Mary Jones League | I was the first one on the top of the list that you had to sign up when you got a job. I was the first one. | 0:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And you got a job here in New Bern? | 1:07 |
Mary Jones League | Right here. Well, the office was here in New Bern, but it was 22 miles, a place called Fort Barnwell. | 1:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Fort Barnwell? | 1:19 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 1:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So it was in the county school system then? | 1:20 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 1:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, what was that like for you? Was it similar to the one you'd gone to as a child? | 1:26 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Because it was segregated. | 1:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 1:37 |
Mary Jones League | And that's what I was used to. | 1:38 |
Karen Ferguson | But how would the building, and [indistinct 00:01:41]— | 1:39 |
Mary Jones League | It was a nice building. | 1:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Did you have to teach more than one grade? | 1:42 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 1:46 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 1:46 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 1:47 |
Karen Ferguson | What grade did you teach? | 1:48 |
Mary Jones League | 5th. | 1:49 |
Karen Ferguson | 5th grade. Okay. | 1:50 |
Mary Jones League | All my life. | 1:52 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you feel your responsibility was to the students you were teaching beyond just teaching them their lesson? Did you feel any responsibility beyond that in terms of teaching them things about being a good person or anything like that? | 1:58 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, you would always tell them that. | 2:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 2:17 |
Mary Jones League | And try to demonstrate it yourself the best you could, and it was a nice school and the children were nice and most of them wanted to learn. Of course, you are going to have some who do the best they can, but they can't seem to get it. | 2:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 2:35 |
Mary Jones League | You know? | 2:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. How long did you stay at that school? | 2:36 |
Mary Jones League | Nine years. | 2:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Nine years? | 2:39 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 2:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And were the children there, were their parents working on farms or— | 2:46 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, it was a farming community. That's what they did. | 2:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And were the children able to come to school every day? | 2:56 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, because they were bused to the school. | 2:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. They had a bus. All right. And none of them were kept home to work in the fields or anything like that? | 3:05 |
Mary Jones League | Not too much. Maybe a few, maybe a day or so. | 3:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 3:14 |
Mary Jones League | But most part they came to school. | 3:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 3:17 |
Mary Jones League | It was a nice school. Yeah. | 3:19 |
Karen Ferguson | What about when those children did have to stay out of school for a couple of days? How would you help them get back their lessons? | 3:22 |
Mary Jones League | Well, if there was any work. Get back what? | 3:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Catch up with their lessons? | 3:32 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 3:33 |
Karen Ferguson | So what would you do? How would you do that? | 3:33 |
Mary Jones League | If I had given them material, the other class material they would have theirs to be responsible for and things like that. | 3:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. After you left the Fort Barnwell school, where did you go after that? | 3:52 |
Mary Jones League | Here. | 4:02 |
Karen Ferguson | You came here to the city school. | 4:03 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. The West Street. | 4:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 4:06 |
Mary Jones League | Right on that street. It's called F.R Daniels now. | 4:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Which school did you prefer? The Fort Barnwell School or the West Street School? | 4:08 |
Mary Jones League | The West Street School because that's just behind my house. | 4:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 4:18 |
Mary Jones League | Could walk there. | 4:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, were you still teaching when integration came in? | 4:20 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 4:27 |
Karen Ferguson | You were? | 4:28 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, I was. | 4:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now. Could you tell me? Talk a little bit about the good things in the bad things that came along with integration for Black children and for the Black community. | 4:31 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. I was over here and I transferred to a Duffy Field school because it was a new school. And from there, they moved me out to Trent Park. | 4:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 5:00 |
Mary Jones League | I like Trent Park, but I had some problems out there. Now, with the children, and most of the teachers I got along nicely, but they just had from one through the 6th grade at that school. With the children and the parents, I got along beautifully, but there were three of us teaching 5th grade. All right. We should have come together to form our plans to say what we were going to do and what we were not going to do. All right. The two of them would get together and they would leave me out. And that was bad. | 5:01 |
Mary Jones League | At the end of the school year, I never will forget this. One of the ladies had to be on jury duty. That was during the time we counted our books and everything. On the day she came back and on the day that these books were supposed to be in, she sent for the music books. I wondered what on earth she wanted with my music books on the day that they were supposed to go in. When they came back, it was one short and she had taken one of my books and things like that, and I didn't like that. | 5:48 |
Mary Jones League | But now, so far as the parents are concerned, they treated me beautifully. If we were going to have a party, they were there to carry it on. If there was going to be a program on that you would appreciate, a TV, that TV would be there. I got along beautifully. And those White teachers would not agree to go to these segregated schools. In order to overcome that, they put all the grades, all fifth grades over here and all. That's the way they did it, so that put me right back here again coming over there. | 6:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, what happened? Do you think that the Black community and Black children benefited from integration? Or do you think [indistinct 00:07:22]— | 7:08 |
Mary Jones League | I don't think the Black children did. | 7:22 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Okay. And why? | 7:22 |
Mary Jones League | I really don't. Because I'll say with the Black student and the Black teacher, they got more attention. | 7:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 7:38 |
Mary Jones League | Now that's the truth. | 7:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 7:40 |
Mary Jones League | That's right. That's what I think. The Black child does not get as much attention. | 7:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 7:50 |
Mary Jones League | From the segregated situation. | 7:51 |
Karen Ferguson | How about in other ways? What do you think happened? What do you think the loss of all Black schools meant for the Black community in New Bern? Do you think that was a loss for people? | 7:55 |
Mary Jones League | In a way I do. I really do in a way, and then, in some other ways, they're getting things that they wouldn't have had. Now, I remember once at the high school graduation, this was before integration. My brother was a commencement speaker and he said, "You're going to lose your job." I said, "Why?" He said, "Because I'm going to tell them, in our high school at West Street, we only had one microscope, and yet, today we have doctors and lawyers who came out of that school." One microscope. Well, they have more than that now, I'm sure. In some ways, it has helped. And in some ways, I don't think our children, well, they don't get that tender loving care that they used to get from the teacher. | 8:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. And what made a good teacher? What do you consider to be a good teacher? | 9:12 |
Mary Jones League | A good teacher is interested in every child and not just a few and you try to get all you can out of the child that is going to help the child. Now, I think that's a good teacher. | 9:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, how would you make sure that that happened? What kinds of extra work or extra care would you give to students or extra attention would you give to students to make sure they succeeded? | 9:33 |
Mary Jones League | Well sometimes be necessary to talk to them privately. | 9:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 9:52 |
Mary Jones League | Things of that nature. | 9:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Would you go to their homes? | 9:55 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Yes. | 9:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. And what would you do there [indistinct 00:10:07]? | 10:06 |
Mary Jones League | Talk with the parents. | 10:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 10:07 |
Mary Jones League | And try to get the parent or keep the parent interested in the child. | 10:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, when you were teaching in the segregated system, were parents responsive to what you wanted? I mean, did they respect your authority in the classroom? | 10:12 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, in most cases. Not 100% at all. That's not going to be. | 10:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Right. Now, were you able to discipline children? | 10:29 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. You could spank them then. | 10:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 10:41 |
Mary Jones League | Can't do it now. | 10:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 10:41 |
Mary Jones League | And then, my mother, if the teacher spanked you at school and she heard about it, you were going to get another when you got home and that was the truth. | 10:42 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you think that that kind of spanking kids, that kept them from misbehaving? | 10:51 |
Mary Jones League | In some instances, yes. And some of the little devils are going to do what they want to do. I don't care what you do. | 10:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Okay. Now, do you think, when you were—in the integrated system, do you think you faced any job discrimination, other than the stuff you were talking about with the other teachers? | 11:18 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 11:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What happened to Black principals in New Bern? Were they hired? | 11:29 |
Mary Jones League | Not very much. | 11:36 |
Karen Ferguson | No? Did some of them have to leave town to find work? Or what did they do after integration? | 11:38 |
Mary Jones League | Well, we didn't have many to start with. | 11:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 11:51 |
Mary Jones League | So nobody had to go anywhere. | 11:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 11:53 |
Mary Jones League | Didn't have many, but we had one Black principal who did wonders out at the high school. And today, his honor, G.C Fields, have you heard of him? He did a beautiful job. I mean, well, he was just outstanding. One of the best principals I have heard of. | 11:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 12:19 |
Mary Jones League | In fact, he married my cousin and she was named for my mother and they have two lovely children, girls, one married to a doctor, and the other one married to a lawyer. | 12:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, when you were teaching, back when you started to teach, did you work during the summertime? | 12:33 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 12:43 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Did some teachers have to do that? | 12:44 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Mm-hmm. | 12:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. What did they do generally? | 12:47 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I guess they went away. They didn't work around here. | 12:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. They didn't. | 12:54 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. There wasn't anything to do around here until, and I worked some in that, the Head Start. | 12:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 13:02 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Worked in that. | 13:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember where your other teachers, where they would go to work? | 13:05 |
Mary Jones League | Up north. | 13:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Up north? | 13:11 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 13:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And what kind of work would they do up there, do you think? | 13:14 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I imagine it would be housework, I reckon. I don't know. | 13:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, your husband, he was the full-time minister? | 13:19 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 13:29 |
Karen Ferguson | So he had his own church. | 13:30 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 13:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 13:34 |
Mary Jones League | And later, he became a district superintendent, if you know what that is. Do you know what? | 13:34 |
Karen Ferguson | No. | 13:39 |
Mary Jones League | He supervised 16 churches. | 13:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 13:42 |
Mary Jones League | And every week he was at a different church. | 13:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right, right. Okay. Now you said you bought this house in 1954. Is that right? | 13:46 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 13:55 |
Karen Ferguson | So had there been houses built up in this area before or were you the first people to build on this property? | 13:57 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. There was people over there and the one across the street and those over there. We bought the lot. | 14:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, okay. | 14:13 |
Mary Jones League | There was a little house up here and tore it down. | 14:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, what kind of people lived, who were your neighbors, when you moved into this section? | 14:17 |
Mary Jones League | I pointed them out to you. | 14:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 14:27 |
Mary Jones League | That's all I had. | 14:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And what did they do? They were other teachers or—? | 14:30 |
Mary Jones League | One lady that lived in the first house over there, she was, but she is deceased now. But that's all. | 14:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Teachers? | 14:43 |
Mary Jones League | No, that was one teacher. | 14:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 14:46 |
Mary Jones League | That was the only teacher. | 14:46 |
Karen Ferguson | How about the other people? What did they do? | 14:47 |
Mary Jones League | Mr. White worked at a furniture store and his wife was a beautician. One lady was a teacher, and another lady in the next house worked up north and this lady over here used to work in domestic. | 14:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. Okay. | 15:24 |
Mary Jones League | And I don't know what her husband did. | 15:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 15:27 |
Mary Jones League | Excuse me. I don't remember. | 15:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, were these people, your friends, your close friends? | 15:29 |
Mary Jones League | They were neighborly, especially the people next door. | 15:33 |
Karen Ferguson | The beautician in the furniture store? | 15:38 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 15:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 15:41 |
Mary Jones League | And she's dead now, and he's my neighbor, does my lawn for me. Of course, I pay him. | 15:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Now, who were some of your close friends when you were married? Who did you and your husband socialize with? | 15:48 |
Mary Jones League | Well, many members of the church. | 16:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 16:04 |
Mary Jones League | And then I have friends that I've had through the years, even before I met him, people like that. Yeah. | 16:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Now have most of, did them end up as teachers or— | 16:16 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 16:18 |
Karen Ferguson | —going to college? | 16:18 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 16:19 |
Karen Ferguson | That kind of thing. | 16:19 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 16:20 |
Karen Ferguson | How about, did you have any friends who didn't go to college? | 16:22 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 16:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 16:25 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 16:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you stay friends with them we well? | 16:27 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Mm-hmm. | 16:28 |
Karen Ferguson | What did they end up doing for a living, most of them? | 16:30 |
Mary Jones League | Well, some of them went away and worked and would come back. | 16:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So they go north? | 16:38 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. That's the place to go if you wanted a job, and then some stayed here and did the best could, whatever they could do. | 16:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Were you ever tempted to go north? | 16:48 |
Mary Jones League | No. I had no reason, not to go and stay. I went one year and I worked but that was when I was in college. | 16:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And what did you do up there? Did you— | 17:03 |
Mary Jones League | I cooked. | 17:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 17:07 |
Mary Jones League | It was up at a resort place. Three old ladies. | 17:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Three Old Ladies? | 17:15 |
Mary Jones League | Three old ladies. | 17:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Resort? That was the resort's name or that was— | 17:16 |
Mary Jones League | No, no, no, no, no, no. That's [indistinct 00:17:21] worked [indistinct 00:17:22]. | 17:19 |
Karen Ferguson | No. [indistinct 00:17:23]— | 17:20 |
Mary Jones League | Catskill Mountains? That's where I [indistinct 00:17:25]. | 17:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, was that a better job than the job— | 17:25 |
Mary Jones League | That I had here? | 17:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Yeah. | 17:29 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 17:30 |
Karen Ferguson | How so? | 17:30 |
Mary Jones League | Hm? | 17:30 |
Karen Ferguson | How? How so? | 17:30 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I made more money, but it was out. You couldn't go anyplace to have any enjoyment, anything. You stayed right there, | 17:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, when you were up there. | 17:42 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah. Until you came back to New York City. | 17:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Were you allowed to go out? I mean, could you have gone out in this area or? | 17:46 |
Mary Jones League | I could have gone, but there's nowhere to go to | 17:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Nowhere to go. Okay. All right. | 17:54 |
Mary Jones League | You go to plays at night. | 17:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 18:00 |
Mary Jones League | There was a girl. She was from South Carolina and she was going to college too and we became friends and so we would go out together, but there wasn't any place to go. Had some souvenir shops, no dress shops or anything like that. | 18:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Did you like it up north? | 18:19 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 18:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Why not? | 18:23 |
Mary Jones League | The place is too fast for me. | 18:23 |
Karen Ferguson | When you say that, what do you mean? What was it that was too fast? | 18:28 |
Mary Jones League | Well, the people are different from down here, and I really wasn't in the city too long. | 18:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. How were the people different? | 18:45 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they certainly drank a lot. | 18:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. They drank a lot. | 18:49 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, they did. And I was not used to that. | 18:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 18:52 |
Mary Jones League | So that's different. | 18:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Now. Did any of your brothers and sisters move up north for jobs? | 18:57 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 19:00 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 19:01 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 19:01 |
Karen Ferguson | They were all able to find good jobs down here? | 19:04 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. My brother had a very good job. My oldest brother, he was the only one who didn't go to college, and he was a lineman for the city. | 19:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. That's right. You were saying that. | 19:16 |
Mary Jones League | The other two, they knew people who had businesses and they would do things like collect rent for people in James City, things like that. That used to be a area where the houses rented for 15 and 25 cents a week. They would do that, collecting, things of that sort. | 19:20 |
Karen Ferguson | So these were your other brothers? | 19:42 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Two brothers. | 19:43 |
Karen Ferguson | And this was their job after school? [indistinct 00:19:47]? | 19:44 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then, as I said, in summertime, tobacco season, they worked in tobacco. | 19:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, how were your father and your brother able to get city jobs? Do you know how they got those jobs? | 19:53 |
Mary Jones League | Well, we lived right across from the plant. So that's how. | 20:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. How about you? How did you get your teaching jobs like that first one? | 20:13 |
Mary Jones League | Well, we had a family doctor, and the doctor's wife was a supervisor. | 20:17 |
Karen Ferguson | And was this a Black or a White doctor? | 20:25 |
Mary Jones League | Black. And he was our family doctor, so he was trying to keep up. So the year that I was a senior, he went to my mother's house one day and he asked her if this was a year for me to graduate. So she said yes. So he said, "Well, I'm going to tell my wife to hire her," and that's how I got my first job. | 20:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Now, do you think people got these jobs through their connections with other people? Do you think that was a common way to get jobs? | 20:59 |
Mary Jones League | I don't know how they got them, but I know how I got mine. | 21:07 |
Karen Ferguson | So you say he wanted to keep you all as patient? He wanted to keep in good— | 21:11 |
Mary Jones League | He was just nice like that. | 21:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 21:17 |
Mary Jones League | Now I remember when I graduated from high school, I did not send him and his wife an invitation, but they sent me a gift. | 21:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 21:33 |
Mary Jones League | That's right. | 21:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, was that an important event in people's life, their high school graduation? | 21:33 |
Mary Jones League | Say what? | 21:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that an important event? | 21:37 |
Mary Jones League | Oh yes. That was a big thing. | 21:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What happened? What happened on that day? | 21:40 |
Mary Jones League | Well, you had a speaker and you had a nice program and people just came out, gave you gifts, and things like that. | 21:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 21:52 |
Mary Jones League | It was lovely to graduate. It was a big thing for us. | 21:53 |
Karen Ferguson | How about your college graduation? Did your parents come to that? | 21:56 |
Mary Jones League | My mother did. My mother did, but my father did not. | 21:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, can you remember—now, the people you went to college with had their parents gone to college? | 22:06 |
Mary Jones League | Some of them. | 22:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. But how about most of them? | 22:18 |
Mary Jones League | Not most of them. | 22:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Not most of them. | 22:21 |
Mary Jones League | Most of them were just sacrificing people trying to make it better for their children than what they had in life. | 22:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 22:31 |
Mary Jones League | That's what my parents wanted. | 22:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the people you went to school with were the first generation to go to college? | 22:34 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 22:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you were mentioning before about Cherry Point. How did the jobs opening up at Cherry Point change things for people in New Bern? | 22:45 |
Mary Jones League | Oh. It was a large base. | 23:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 23:03 |
Mary Jones League | An extra large base. And many of the people got jobs down there and that was a big help to the people and also to the city of New Bern. And it's still going on today. And a few weeks ago, we were all afraid that Cherry Point was going to fall. | 23:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right, but it's not going to now? | 23:32 |
Mary Jones League | Not now. | 23:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, sorry. | 23:32 |
Mary Jones League | I don't know how soon in the future. | 23:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, did you know people who got jobs down there? | 23:33 |
Mary Jones League | Plenty of them, plenty of them. | 23:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And what kinds of things were they doing down there? | 23:44 |
Mary Jones League | Well, they have shops where they fix things. Well, just lots of things going on down there, machinery work, that type thing. But none of my people ever worked down there, so I really can't tell you. But it's office work. I have friends who do have done office work down there, laundry work, things of that sort. | 23:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Now were they paid more than they had been? | 24:21 |
Mary Jones League | Oh yes. | 24:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, how about the people doing office work? Was this at the time when Black people in New Bern generally wouldn't be able to get office work or—? | 24:25 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I don't know when they started doing that. | 24:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. | 24:40 |
Mary Jones League | But they have office people now. | 24:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 24:45 |
Mary Jones League | Because I just had a friend to retire about two weeks ago. She was in an office, not just what she was doing in there, I don't know. But she was in there. | 24:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, have there been any bad things that came along? Did anything negative come along with the opening of Cherry Point for this community, do you think? | 24:52 |
Mary Jones League | Not that I know. | 25:02 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Okay. So it's all been good? | 25:04 |
Mary Jones League | So far as I know. | 25:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, people treated well down there when they had jobs? | 25:06 |
Mary Jones League | So far as I know. I don't know much about Cherry Point. | 25:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, how did things change in the Black community in New Bern after the Cherry Point jobs started opening up? | 25:20 |
Mary Jones League | Well, their eyes became open. They got homes, cars, sent their children to school and things like that. A number of people got homes and cars and they couldn't have done that before. | 25:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Do you think it had any effect on other jobs, like the non-military jobs or non-base job? Do you think wages went up generally after the Cherry Point opened up? So, jobs [indistinct 00:26:02]— | 25:44 |
Mary Jones League | No. Well, I don't come in contact with people. | 26:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 26:04 |
Mary Jones League | You know? | 26:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. So you don't know— | 26:07 |
Mary Jones League | To hear of them say how much they get, but I don't know how much they get at Cherry Point, but I hear that it is good and it was good even when it first opened. Everybody who could got a job at Cherry Point, even the people in laundry work. But I didn't have anybody down there. | 26:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right, right. Now, did you ever have anybody help you out in the house here? | 26:28 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 26:34 |
Karen Ferguson | You did? | 26:34 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 26:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So you hired some people. You had— | 26:36 |
Mary Jones League | I had a lady to come in once a week when I was teaching for a while. Not all the time, but for a while. | 26:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have other friends who had people come in as well? | 26:45 |
Mary Jones League | Yes, I have some now. | 26:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Now the person who came in and worked for you, had you known her for a long time? Did you know her from— | 26:52 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 26:57 |
Karen Ferguson | —when you were growing up? | 26:57 |
Mary Jones League | No, not when I was growing up. | 26:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 27:00 |
Mary Jones League | Not that far back. | 27:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think most teachers, women teachers, had someone to come and help them out in the house? | 27:11 |
Mary Jones League | In a few cases, not all of them. Well, some of them had children and their children could help out with the work. I didn't have any. | 27:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. I just had one final question I wanted to ask you. I wanted to ask you whether you think you've ever been treated like a second class citizen, whether, during your life you've ever felt that way? | 27:38 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Just like I told you, when I would go to the candy store and the person got waited on before I did, and I was there first. | 27:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 28:01 |
Mary Jones League | That made me feel like a second class citizen. But now, the way the stores are out here, when you come up to the counter, you get served. | 28:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 28:14 |
Mary Jones League | And that's much better. | 28:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there any other incidents in your life where you were made to feel that way? | 28:17 |
Mary Jones League | Just like the school incident that I told you about. | 28:23 |
Karen Ferguson | All right, sweet. I just have a few. If I could just take a few more minutes of your time here, I just have a little bit of paperwork I have to fill out. | 28:32 |
Mary Jones League | Go ahead. I've decided to stay now. | 28:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 28:43 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I'll go out a little later. | 28:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. What's your full name please, ma'am? | 28:49 |
Mary Jones League | Mrs. Mary J. League. | 28:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 28:59 |
Mary Jones League | L-E-A-G-U-E. | 29:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and your maiden name? | 29:01 |
Mary Jones League | Jones. | 29:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Jones. Okay. What's your zip code here | 29:04 |
Mary Jones League | Now, if you have my house address, it's 28560. | 29:09 |
Karen Ferguson | 28560. Okay. | 29:15 |
Mary Jones League | And my post office is 28563, but I guess you're going to use my house number. That'll be okay. | 29:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And if you don't mind me asking, could you give your date of birth? | 29:31 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 29:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 29:35 |
Mary Jones League | 2/9/14. | 29:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you were born in New Bern, right? | 29:41 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 29:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And is your husband still living? No. Okay. What was his name? | 29:44 |
Mary Jones League | S-O-L-O-N. | 29:54 |
Karen Ferguson | S-O-L-O-N. | 29:56 |
Mary Jones League | League. | 29:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. League. All right. And when was he born? | 29:59 |
Mary Jones League | I believe it was—he was much older than I was. | 30:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. 10 years older? | 30:18 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 30:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So around maybe 1904? | 30:20 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 30:22 |
Karen Ferguson | And when did he pass? | 30:23 |
Mary Jones League | He passed 1979. | 30:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you said he was born in Knoxville or— | 30:29 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 30:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And he was an AME Zion minister? | 30:42 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 30:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And your mother's name please? | 30:45 |
Mary Jones League | Essie Elizabeth. | 30:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Essie. Is that E-S-S-I-E? | 30:55 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 30:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 30:57 |
Mary Jones League | Frazile Jones. | 30:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. How do you spell her maiden name? | 31:02 |
Mary Jones League | F-R-A-Z-I-L-E. | 31:08 |
Karen Ferguson | F-R-A-Z-I-L-E? | 31:08 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 31:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and do you know when she was born? | 31:12 |
Mary Jones League | Um-mm. | 31:13 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Okay. And when did she pass? | 31:21 |
Mary Jones League | She passed in 19—when did my mother pass? She's been dead 41 years, so what does that—1950 what? | 31:24 |
Karen Ferguson | '52? | 31:36 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 31:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Does that sound right? Okay, and where she was born— | 31:37 |
Mary Jones League | That's still on New Bern. | 31:46 |
Karen Ferguson | In New Bern? | 31:47 |
Mary Jones League | [indistinct 00:31:49] section is New Bern. | 31:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay, and what should I put as her occupation? Home? | 31:50 |
Mary Jones League | Housewife. | 32:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Housewife. Okay. | 32:03 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Homemaker, whatever. | 32:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And your father's name please? | 32:05 |
Mary Jones League | Johnnie F. Jones. | 32:06 |
Karen Ferguson | And that's J-O-H-N-N-Y? | 32:08 |
Mary Jones League | I-E. | 32:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. H? | 32:12 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 32:13 |
Karen Ferguson | F. Jones? Okay. | 32:13 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 32:13 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you remember when he was born? | 32:13 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 32:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And when did he pass? | 32:17 |
Mary Jones League | He passed 11 years after my mother. | 32:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So that would make it to 1963. Does that sound right? | 32:23 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. [indistinct 00:32:30]. | 32:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And he was born in New Bern as well? | 32:31 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 32:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What should I put as his occupation? Fireman? | 32:37 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 32:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that was at the electrical plant? | 32:42 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. The city used to make the electricity. | 32:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. And was that with coal? | 32:47 |
Mary Jones League | Coal and sawdust. | 32:49 |
Karen Ferguson | So coal and sawdust. Okay. All right, and your brothers and sisters' names? | 32:54 |
Mary Jones League | The oldest one. Ernest H. Jones. | 32:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And do you remember how much older he was than you? | 33:02 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. Three years. | 33:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Three years. And so he was born in '14?. Okay. So he was born in about 1911. And is he still living? | 33:09 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 33:14 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Do you remember when he passed? | 33:14 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. '76. | 33:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after Ernest? | 33:19 |
Mary Jones League | I'm the next. | 33:23 |
Karen Ferguson | You're the next. Okay. And after you? | 33:23 |
Mary Jones League | Earl F. Jones. | 33:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Earl. And how much younger was he than you? | 33:28 |
Mary Jones League | He's 71. | 33:32 |
Karen Ferguson | 71? | 33:32 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 33:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So that's 1922. So there was a big, difference between the two? | 33:32 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Yes. | 33:44 |
Karen Ferguson | And he's still living? | 33:45 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Yeah. | 33:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 33:47 |
Mary Jones League | And John C. Jones. | 33:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And how old is he? Okay. | 33:50 |
Mary Jones League | He died in '78. | 33:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 34:01 |
Mary Jones League | And he is about two years younger than the other brother. | 34:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after John? | 34:08 |
Mary Jones League | Ruth J. Kelly. | 34:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Kelly. Okay. | 34:13 |
Mary Jones League | She's about two years younger. | 34:14 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. And is she still living? | 34:18 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 34:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that's, that's it. | 34:20 |
Mary Jones League | That's it. | 34:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you don't have any children? | 34:23 |
Mary Jones League | Nope. | 34:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 34:24 |
Mary Jones League | And you have to have a lot of information here. | 34:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, I hope it's not—it'sjust a couple more pages here. So you're born in New Bern and you lived here until you went to Winston-Salem State? Okay. And that was when? What year? Do you remember when you went over to Winston-Salem? | 34:29 |
Mary Jones League | 1934. | 34:45 |
Karen Ferguson | And that wasn't until '38 that you were there? | 34:51 |
Mary Jones League | I graduated in '39, I think. | 34:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. And then you've lived in New Bern ever since? Okay. All right. And you went to West Street School? | 35:02 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. | 35:13 |
Karen Ferguson | And that was from 1st to 11th grade. | 35:14 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Yeah. | 35:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Is it 11th grade right now? Okay. And when did you graduate from there? | 35:25 |
Mary Jones League | 1934. | 35:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then you went to Winston-Salem. What was it called then? Winston-Salem— | 35:29 |
Mary Jones League | Teachers College. | 35:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you got a BA or an AB degree? | 35:46 |
Mary Jones League | BS. | 35:50 |
Karen Ferguson | BS degree. Okay. Okay. And then you went to Columbia? | 35:52 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 35:59 |
Karen Ferguson | That was an M-Ed that you got there? | 35:59 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 35:59 |
Karen Ferguson | And when did you get that? | 36:07 |
Mary Jones League | 1947. | 36:07 |
Karen Ferguson | 1947? | 36:07 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 36:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Why did you go? What did you get your masters? | 36:07 |
Mary Jones League | Because I wanted to improve myself. | 36:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. And were there a lot of teachers who went up to Columbia at that time? | 36:28 |
Mary Jones League | You mean from here? | 36:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 36:31 |
Mary Jones League | Maybe about a half a lesson. | 36:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right, now did you go up? Just, did you go up during the summers there to do that? | 36:34 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. That's the only time I went, because I had to work the other time to get money in there to go. | 36:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right, right. Did you enjoy that, going there? | 36:46 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. Yes. | 36:52 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you enjoy about it? | 36:52 |
Mary Jones League | Well, we went on field trips and I just enjoyed the learning. I really did. | 36:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you like being in New York City? | 37:02 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 37:03 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 37:04 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 37:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Really? | 37:04 |
Mary Jones League | Because I had to cross Central Park. | 37:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 37:07 |
Mary Jones League | And that is dangerous. | 37:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Even back then? | 37:08 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. You see things that would just make you run. That's right. | 37:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So you weren't able to live right on campus then, or you— | 37:15 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I don't imagine I could've afforded it. | 37:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Afford it. Right. So where did you— | 37:23 |
Mary Jones League | But I didn't live far. I lived on Morningside Avenue and all I had to do was cross Central Park and I'd be right up to Columbia University. | 37:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Who did you stay with? | 37:32 |
Mary Jones League | I stayed with a lady who lived in New York and some of her relatives got this place for me. | 37:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Okay. | 37:44 |
Mary Jones League | I couldn't afford to stay at Columbia University. | 37:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 37:50 |
Mary Jones League | No. | 37:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were you able to get a better job or were you paid a little more? | 37:53 |
Mary Jones League | Paid more. | 37:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, with that? | 37:57 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 37:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, did the Black teachers belong to when a union? No? Was there a White teacher's union at that time? | 38:00 |
Mary Jones League | I haven't heard of one. | 38:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay, so you worked in the Craven County school system first, is that right? | 38:08 |
Mary Jones League | I worked for nine years. | 38:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And the school was where again? It was in— | 38:24 |
Mary Jones League | What school? | 38:27 |
Karen Ferguson | In the county school. It was in— | 38:29 |
Mary Jones League | Fort Barnwell. | 38:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Fort—what was it again? Fort— | 38:33 |
Mary Jones League | Fort Barnwell School. | 38:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Is that B-A-R-N-W-E-L-L? | 38:37 |
Mary Jones League | W-E-L-L. | 38:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that was from 1939 to 1948? | 38:40 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 38:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then you were a teacher in the New Bern City school system? | 38:45 |
Mary Jones League | Yeah, from then until 1976. | 38:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Have you received any awards or honors or held any offices that you'd like me to put down here? | 39:06 |
Mary Jones League | I haven't held up any [indistinct 00:39:15]. | 39:10 |
Karen Ferguson | I see some of them up there. [indistinct 00:39:17]. | 39:15 |
Mary Jones League | Oh yeah. | 39:16 |
Karen Ferguson | [indistinct 00:39:18] write them down. | 39:19 |
Mary Jones League | Well, my name is spelled wrong on one. | 39:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 39:23 |
Mary Jones League | And I got certificates and things of that sort that I don't have down there. | 39:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Well, which ones would you like me to put down? | 39:28 |
Mary Jones League | You can put both of those down there, because they're from the same ones from the Eastern Star and the other's from the Ministers' Wives. | 39:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, do you belong to the Eastern Star? | 39:40 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, yes. | 39:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Yes? Okay. | 39:42 |
Mary Jones League | I have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him. Are you a member? | 39:44 |
Karen Ferguson | No, I'm not a member. | 39:49 |
Mary Jones League | Oh, I was going to see how you were going to answer me. | 39:50 |
Karen Ferguson | No. I don't know. What should I have said if I were? | 39:54 |
Mary Jones League | Same thing I said. | 39:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. I see. Now, when did you join Eastern Star? | 40:02 |
Mary Jones League | 1964. | 40:04 |
Karen Ferguson | And why? Why did you join? | 40:08 |
Mary Jones League | Because I thought it was a fine organization. | 40:08 |
Karen Ferguson | What you does it do in this community? | 40:08 |
Mary Jones League | What does it do? | 40:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 40:08 |
Mary Jones League | Well, it's a Christian organization, and that's what we try to teach, Christianity, and the Ministers' Wives as a group to get together and talk about things that we can do as a minister's wife and what we can, some of the things we can do to help our husbands. | 40:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. You talked a little bit about the role of the minister's wife. Do you think that the role of the ministry and ministers' wives have changed since you got married to your husband? | 40:56 |
Mary Jones League | Well, I think there are more problems that they could work with than I had because times have just changed. | 41:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. | 41:20 |
Mary Jones League | I have certificates upstairs, but you need not bother. | 41:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Well, have you held any offices that you'd like me to put down here? | 41:32 |
Mary Jones League | Yes. I've been [indistinct 00:41:37] the matron of that. | 41:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Of the Ministers'— | 41:38 |
Mary Jones League | No, the Eastern Star. | 41:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Matron of the Eastern Star. | 41:40 |
Mary Jones League | I have been president of the Ministers' Wives. Now, this one that I have been in for—I was a missionary person for 15 years to help organizations abroad. | 41:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 42:22 |
Mary Jones League | And of course, I've been a Sunday school teacher, a students' board chairman, and things of that nature. | 42:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And your church? Your church's name again, it's—sorry. It's— | 42:55 |
Mary Jones League | Vincent Chapel AME Zion. | 42:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Sorry. | 42:56 |
Mary Jones League | The name that I was trying to think of is the Second Mile Chairman of the North Carolina Conference, which takes care of foreign places. | 42:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So what is it again? It's the— | 43:11 |
Mary Jones League | The Second Mile Chairman. | 43:13 |
Karen Ferguson | The Second— | 43:15 |
Mary Jones League | —Mile Chairman for the North Carolina Conference for 15 years, and that's a big job. | 43:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. | 43:23 |
Mary Jones League | Did I put up that missionary? | 43:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Okay, I think I've got it now. Second Mile chairman of th—what is it? Okay, so let me rewrite this whole thing. It was the — | 43:30 |
Mary Jones League | Second Mile Chairman of the North Carolina Conference, and that really took in three districts and that was a lot of work. | 43:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that was for missionary work abroad? | 43:51 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. | 43:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 43:55 |
Mary Jones League | At home and abroad, one year home, and one year abroad. | 43:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you travel with that? | 44:02 |
Mary Jones League | Oh yes. | 44:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you go? | 44:04 |
Mary Jones League | I had to go around to the other presiding elders' districts, wherever they were holding their meeting. | 44:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you go abroad at all? | 44:18 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-mm. | 44:18 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Okay, so you belonged to the Eastern Star. | 44:19 |
Mary Jones League | Mm-hmm. The Ministers' Wives. | 44:20 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. The Climbers Club. | 44:20 |
Mary Jones League | The Climbers Club, the Craft Club, the Golden Circle. | 44:28 |
Karen Ferguson | What's the Golden Circle? | 44:39 |
Mary Jones League | That's an organization like something like the Eastern Star. | 44:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay, and anything else? | 44:45 |
Mary Jones League | Did you put down the Sunday School? | 44:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. Anything else? | 44:51 |
Mary Jones League | I can't think of anything right now. | 44:58 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. | 44:59 |
Mary Jones League | Have you finished? | 45:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Yes. The final thing I just have to get you to do is to sign a release form for the interview so that people can use it. The interviews are going to be going back to the Duke University archives, but a copy will also be coming back here to New Bern. | 45:06 |
Mary Jones League | Well, is your name put on? | 45:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Mm-hmm. | 45:26 |
Mary Jones League | What you said? | 45:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. The tape, whatever's on the tape, will come back here to be used. Well, it'll go back to the Historical Society. It'll also be available for people in the community to use for local history projects or for school children to use. We hope people will use them in that way. | 45:27 |
Mary Jones League | When do you expect to be finished with this project? | 45:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, it's a three-year project. We're going to be finished here in Newburn a week from tomorrow, and that'll be all that we will do for this summer. But for over the next two summers, people are going to be going, branching out throughout the south, and we hope to have about 3,000 interviews by— | 45:55 |
Item Info
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