Jurl Watkins interview recording, 1994 June 28
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Gregory Hunter | —your name and your date of birth. | 0:00 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My name is Jurl, J-U-R-L. | 0:04 |
Gregory Hunter | J-U— | 0:09 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | J-U-R- L, Watkins. My maiden name is Portee. | 0:10 |
Gregory Hunter | Can you spell that? | 0:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | P-O-R-T-E-E. I'm the second child of 12 children. I was born at a little place called Shingler, Georgia. | 0:22 |
Gregory Hunter | Shingle, Georgia? | 0:34 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Shingler. That's in the east in Worth county between Sylvester and Ashburn. | 0:37 |
Gregory Hunter | When were you born? | 0:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I was born July 24th, 1932. I attended the Public Schools of Worth County. I attended school at Shingler. At that time, we were going to school in church, and then I came on to Sylvester and finished at Oak Hill High School, and then I left and went to college. Ask me a question. | 0:47 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. Do you have any recollections of your grandparents? | 1:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My grandparents, I do not know. On my father's side, my grandfather and my step-grandmother passed away before I was born. Now on my mother's side, I remember my grandmother and my grandfather. My grandmother on my mother's side was named Georgia Brown and my grandfather on my mother's side was William Brown. And my mother is one daughter of eight children. My mother was a very thrifty lady. She taught her children, I mean, most things that any young person will want to know how to do, as far as cooking and sewing and all that stuff. All of us are very thrifty when it comes down to family life. | 1:30 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We live on a farm. I worked on the farm until I left and went to Albany in 19—I finished school in 1949, then I left and went to Albany State and I finished Albany State in 1955 and I left and went to—I mean, I went to college for four years, then I came back to Worth County where I taught for 32 years, which I retired in 1987. I had seven brother and four sisters. Two brothers passed away so now I have five brothers and five sisters. Three of them live here. One sister lives in Trenton, New Jersey. All the other sisters are here in Albany. | 2:38 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Back in 1980, maybe '85 or '86. What was it '86? I was in a car accident and I worked at Fields Funeral Home for 21 years, but I was in a car accident and as a result I did retire from teaching school. But recently, I came down here and start working at the Worth County Mission where I've been here about nine months. I drive from Albany every day and I come down here and do whatever's volunteer work. | 3:35 |
Gregory Hunter | During your childhood, you said you grew up on a farm in Shingler. | 4:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | In Shingler. | 4:28 |
Gregory Hunter | In Shingler, Georgia on your parents farm? | 4:32 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Uh-huh, on my parents' farm. | 4:36 |
Gregory Hunter | Did they own their own land? | 4:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, it was our land. It was the Portee's estate, but my daddy always ran the farm and we worked the farm, all 12 of us. | 4:41 |
Gregory Hunter | What was life like on the farm? | 4:52 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, life was beautiful. We had a lovely life. I had lovely parents. We never had to want for anything. My mother always had all types of chickens and ducks and guineas and turkeys and anything that you could name. My daddy raised hogs, cows and goats, and we raised most of our food. My daddy raised all of the corn and took it to the mill and made the meal. We killed all our hogs and made our own meat and everything. We worked our farm, then we would go out in the community and work on other farms because there was so many of us in the family, we would pick all our cotton because we would pick a bale of cotton a day. That's 1000 pounds a day, and then we would go out to the other community farmers and help them. | 4:54 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | On Saturday, we got all the money we made ourselves, so it was left up to us how much money we want to have to spend because that's when you make your extra money. I was the oldest sister, so I was somewhat like the mother because I had to take care of all the others and the younger kids, and I did most of the cooking and the washing and the ironing because there were boys between me and my sister. They are maybe three or four boys between me and the other girls so I had to do most of the housework. But anyway, it was a nice, humble farm, but when I became 19, I was ready to leave and so when I was going to Albany State, I chose to get married in Albany at the age of 19. | 5:54 |
Gregory Hunter | At 19? | 6:51 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 6:52 |
Gregory Hunter | And what did your parents think about that? | 6:52 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | What did they think about it? Well, they mainly wanted me to finish college because at that time, I finished high school when I was 16. I had gone to Auburn State for two years. They wanted me to finish college before I married, but the only way I thought I could escape, to get off the farm was marry. Excuse me. | 6:58 |
Gregory Hunter | And where did you meet your husband? | 7:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | In Albany. He was living right next door to me. I met and married him, James Watkins, and we had two children, a boy and a girl. | 7:28 |
Gregory Hunter | How did you meet? | 7:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My cousin and I were working at night and he worked on the railroad. He saw that we was having a hard time getting to school. We would walk to school every day. He came on and offered us to use his car. | 7:44 |
Gregory Hunter | Did you walk from the country to school, to go to— | 7:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, I was living next door with my aunt- | 8:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, I see. | 8:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | —in Albany. And after I went to Albany, I was living with my aunt and we'd be right next door to the man that I married. And so, he offered to let us use his car and so I started driving the car to where we were working at night to try to have a little money to go to school, and he let me use his car. We started driving the car and so that's where we met. About a year after that, and then we got married. | 8:03 |
Gregory Hunter | And what year was that? | 8:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We got married in 1952, so I probably met him 1951. Two years later, I had a son, Carlton Watkins, and then six years later, I had a daughter, Ertha Watkins. Carlton is now an attorney in Maryland, Washington, DC rather, and Ertha is the band director over at Highland Middle School in Albany. I have one granddaughter, Backardam. | 8:41 |
Gregory Hunter | You got tired of staying on the farm and when you finished high school, you wanted to leave the country and go into Albany. What about your brothers and sisters? Who stayed around and who left? | 9:23 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | All of those that were older than me were still there because no one had married. I was about the first one to get married. | 9:36 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, marriage was really the only way you could leave? | 9:43 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yeah, the only way I could get off the farm at that time, yes. That's the way I felt anyway. I could not support myself totally. And after meeting this guy, he was more or less supporting me, so I just chose to go and marry, but all the other kids were still at home. | 9:48 |
Gregory Hunter | Now this is around the time that you were getting ready to think about leaving home and going to Albany State. That was around end of the war, right? | 10:15 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. | 10:23 |
Gregory Hunter | What do you recall about the war and the impact that the war may have had on the community, on the campus, and different things like that? | 10:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Was that— | 10:36 |
Gregory Hunter | World War II. | 10:36 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Was that World War II? | 10:38 |
Gregory Hunter | Well, you would've gotten married around the Korean War. | 10:40 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Korean War, oh. | 10:42 |
Gregory Hunter | I guess this this is between World War II and the Korean War, probably because— | 10:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well— | 10:49 |
Gregory Hunter | —you didn't go to Albany State until 1940. | 10:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 1949 to '50. | 10:51 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay, this is definitely [indistinct 00:11:01]. | 10:52 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I didn't know that much about the war because I did not have a brother who went in service. I had one brother to go in service and that was my third brother, but none of the other six brothers ever went in service so I was never really connected with the service or anything of that type because he was away and he was in, I guess, it must have been the Korean War. I really don't know much about the wars and that type of thing. | 11:02 |
Gregory Hunter | What was the name of the high school that you went to? | 11:43 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oak Hill High School. | 11:45 |
Gregory Hunter | And that's in Sylvester? | 11:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That's in Sylvester, but it burned down. It burned down in 19—It burned down that same year that I graduated. | 11:47 |
Gregory Hunter | 19— | 12:05 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 1949 because I had a brother to get drowned at that same year because we were going to school over there. Then— | 12:06 |
Gregory Hunter | How did it burn down? | 12:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No one knows. It just was this old, dilapidated building. You know how it was back in those days. They just gave us old things to go to school in. | 12:17 |
Gregory Hunter | Could you talk more about what the schools were like for Black people back then, the school you went to and how those may have compared to the White schools? | 12:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh. Well, we did not have buses. When we went to school at Shingler, we had to walk back to school, five miles to school and five miles back every day. We got the books that were handed down after the Whites got through using them. They would always give us the books that were left over. And when I went to high school, went to Sylvester, we had our own car, so we would drive to school every day. My brother would drive every day. We had, what you call—It was not really a library, but we had a little building that sat off from the school that was called the library and we had just a few, very few elaborate books, reference books that we could use at that time. But after this building burned down, they built another high school. By then, they was getting ready to—What year they integrated? But anyway, they built another school that was an all Black school that was called J.W. Holley High School. | 12:38 |
Gregory Hunter | And this is in Shingler? | 14:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | In Sylvester. | 14:07 |
Gregory Hunter | In Sylvester. | 14:08 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. That's the high school and they named it after the oldest president of Albany State, J.W. Holley. And of course, I had graduated at that time, but when I left and when went to college and came back, I came back to Holley and started teaching. Well, I really finished college three years because I went straight through, summer too, so that made me finish real early. And the first year that I finished, I went to Athens, Georgia and worked one year and then I came back. I got a job back home then. I stayed there for 31 years. | 14:09 |
Gregory Hunter | In? | 14:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | In Worth County. I taught school. Well, when they integrated, I went over to the junior high school because they was trying to balance the races with the teachers. I was transferred over. | 14:59 |
Gregory Hunter | That was previously the White school? | 15:16 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes, it was previously the White high school, but then they made a junior high school and built a new high school. | 15:18 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. And what year did you start teaching there? | 15:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 1955, but I was never out, anything. Having my children or anything, I was never absent from school. That's why my years went so fast because I didn't lose any time, any years. It seemed like I made my 30 something year—See, you can retire at 30 years, but because I didn't lose any time between the years—The only thing, I became ill. I got sick. I had kidney problems. I started having problem with my kidney and I was out in the last years, because I was in the hospital, I had polycystic kidneys and that kept me out of school more. Well, really, that's the reason I retired because of medical reasons. I had this polycystic kidney and then I was in a car accident and I was just having a lot of medical problems, which I still do now, but I just get up and go in anyway. | 15:29 |
Gregory Hunter | That's good. What was college like at Albany State for someone living out the country, going to school there? | 16:51 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I did not have much time on campus during my college years because I had to work because after I came out to Albany, I got a job working at Dixie Cream Donut Shop and I was working at night and then getting up and going to school during the day. I never spent that much time on campus because most time when I got out of school I had to go home and try to get some sleep to go back to work at night. I never wanted to be a burden on my father, on my parents so I always tried to be self-supporting so I never worried them. Once I left home, and went to Albany, I did not worry them about finance. I always tried to make my own little money because he had all the other children to take care of. | 17:04 |
Gregory Hunter | Did you remain close to your parents when you left? | 18:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, yes. I would go home most every weekend or they demanded that I come home on the weekend because I would go back and go to church. During that time, we were only having church one Sunday and at Shingler, which is where my church is, Pleasant Grove Baptist Church, and I would go back and go to church. | 18:06 |
Gregory Hunter | Were your parents also very active in church? | 18:31 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, yes. Both of my parents were ushers. My mother was an usher. My daddy was an usher. My daddy was the president of the Usher Bowl for 25 years. I started singing the choir when I was about 15 so I've really been singing in the choir 40 something years. | 18:37 |
Gregory Hunter | And church played a really big role in the community? | 18:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes, it sure did because we would— | 19:01 |
Gregory Hunter | Could you talk about that? | 19:03 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We would get on the wagon. We would go to church on the wagon. My daddy would put all us on the wagon and we would go to Sunday school every Sunday before he got a truck and we would go out there and we'd take the mule. We had trees all lining the yard. Everybody would tie their mule to the trees out there and- | 19:03 |
Gregory Hunter | In front of the church? | 19:27 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | —it was on the side of the church. And they had these big barracks. They used to give us these barracks from the army for schools. That's where we really went to school. We weren't going to school in the church. We were going in the barracks that the army had given us. The government would give us those buildings. | 19:28 |
Gregory Hunter | Were they already built there before or did they build them for you? | 19:59 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, they'd just bring them. They was just long buildings and they just bring them and set them out there. That's what we went to school in. | 20:01 |
Gregory Hunter | And this is when you were young. What year around? | 20:10 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That was maybe around in the 40s. | 20:11 |
Gregory Hunter | The early 40s? | 20:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Not the early 40s. | 20:11 |
Gregory Hunter | Middle of the 40s? | 20:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yeah, middle of the 40s, somewhere along there. I don't know. When I was about 10 and 12, something like that. But that's where we went to school in those little barracks and they would give us a big cans of poking beans for our commodities and big cans of applesauce. They'd have the big cans so everybody had to take their arm and utensils to eat with, or to eat out of. | 20:24 |
Gregory Hunter | At school? | 21:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm, at school. We didn't have a lunchroom or anything like that. You had to take your own and we would set the big cans of poking beans on the big wood heater. | 21:02 |
Gregory Hunter | And let them heat up? | 21:12 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Let them heat up, and that's what we would eat. | 21:13 |
Gregory Hunter | Who were the teachers at the school? | 21:16 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | The Evans. They were the two sisters, Lucille Everson and Willie May Everson. That's E-V-E-R-S-O-N. They were our teachers during that time. | 21:20 |
Gregory Hunter | And who were they? They were a woman who lived in the community?. | 21:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yeah, they lived in the community, but they taught school out there for many years and when we integrated—Well, I left them out there before we integrated because the school out there only went up to seventh grade. I did not go to school seventh grade. The reason I finished so early, they skipped me from sixth grade to eighth grade. | 21:40 |
Gregory Hunter | To eighth grade? | 22:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. Back in those years, if you were smart, they would do that. They would skip you two grades if you were smart enough. They skipped me from sixth to eighth grade. That's why I was able to get out of school so early at the age of 16. | 22:26 |
Gregory Hunter | When you got skipped from six to eighth grade, you had to come into Sylvester to go to Oak Hill? | 22:45 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Right. | 22:49 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. You came to Oak Hill when you were about 12 years old? | 22:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yeah, about 12. Yeah, maybe 12 or 13, somewhere. | 22:57 |
Gregory Hunter | 12 or 13? | 23:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. Yeah. | 23:03 |
Gregory Hunter | When you started going to Oak Hill, how did you get to school every day? | 23:05 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My brother had a car. My daddy had a car. We would drive my daddy's car. At first, my daddy started bringing us and then after a while, he would let my brother drive us to school. | 23:08 |
Gregory Hunter | Do you recall much—Oh, sorry. Do you remember much about the rest of the community, the rest of the Black community in Shingler where you lived? What was life like? How were the other people were? | 23:27 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, back in those days, life was so beautiful because everybody looked out for each other. If we killed hog, we share with everybody in the community. If we killed a cow, we'd share with everybody in the community. If we had vegetables, we would share with everybody in the community. It's not like now. We used to shell our own peanuts that we planted and we would have what you call peanut shellings and everybody in the community would come. We would make syrup candy and we'd pull the syrup candy and make these big ropes up and that's what we would serve at these peanut shellings. And we'd have contests. The ones that would shell the most peanut would get this big piece of syrup candy and it was so beautiful. We would just pulling and pulling and they would plant it and when it hardened, it would be so pretty and that's what we would do. We would share peanuts and try to get that gift. Sometimes we would roast corn in the fireplace and we would do a lot of exciting things. | 23:39 |
Gregory Hunter | How do you make syrup candy? | 24:55 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | You cook the syrup to a certain temperature until it becomes a certain temperature and then you put a little soda in it and that soda does something. It goes through some process to make it crisp, but anyway—And then you have to let that stuff cool like an [indistinct 00:25:20] before you could pull it. Another exciting thing that we did, we had a cane meal. | 24:57 |
Gregory Hunter | A what? | 25:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | A cane meal. | 25:24 |
Gregory Hunter | Cane meal? | 25:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. We may syrup for most of the community because everybody would bring that cane to us and we would make the syrup and this mule just go round and around in circles. He'd pull that cane meal all day long and then you would make the juice out of the cane, and then we had this big huge pan that we would put this juice in and we'd cook it. It'd cook it as it goes up. When it gets up to the front, it would become syrup and then you would have a can under to catch that syrup. And most people brought their cane up there to make syrup, but the most exciting thing was the buck that came out the syrup. | 25:27 |
Gregory Hunter | The what? | 26:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | The buck. As the syrup cook, you would skim, what you call it skimming, off the of syrup and you put it over in a barrel and that buck would fumigate whatever. Anyway, it was turned to something like a wine, a liquor. That's why I don't drink today. I went down to this buck barrel and my aunt used to always send us down there and I went down there and I drank. It was so cool and good and I drank and I stayed drunk for about a week. | 26:28 |
Gregory Hunter | Is that right? | 27:05 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Every time I'd get up, I fall down and I was so sick. | 27:09 |
Gregory Hunter | And this is the stuff that you skim off the top of the syrup? | 27:13 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | You'd skim off the top of syrup. Put it in a barrel and you'd just let it sit there and it goes through this process. | 27:17 |
Gregory Hunter | How long you have to let it sit? | 27:31 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, it's couple of weeks. You could let it sit as long as you want to. The longer it set, the better it got, and then sometime my daddy would sell it. They would take it to make moonshine and do everything with it. It was just good with everything. When you would grind the cane, what you call the cane sugar, we would make a big, old round pile out there around the field and that's what we would go and play. We'd go on those cane sugars and we'd just rolled over and rolled down, rolled all the way down. Now that was the most exciting thing for the children. | 27:31 |
Gregory Hunter | Let me adjust this microphone because this is what you're stepping on. Okay, sorry. | 28:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Since you mentioned, I go back to the church now. We used to have what we call a homecoming at our church. Every first Sunday, everybody who ever lived in Worth County would come home. That would be their homecoming day. Most people would come back. I don't care where they live, we would always look forward to those people coming back for homecoming because we would have a whole week of what you call revival. We would have a revival for a whole week and then that Sunday we'd have this big dinner. Everybody would have their food on the back of their wagon and all of your family would come and eat out of your box and oh, we just would have a good time. | 28:36 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | And we used to have what we call box suppers too. Everybody would go and take a box and then we would exchange food and we would have teacakes and fresh sausage and fresh ham after you killed your hogs. And we would make this what you call hog head cheese, but it's really sauce and we would just have a good time. Most people said back in those days, they had hard times but we never had a hard time and never suffered because my daddy he always prepared. He would even plant his rice. We would have to gather the rice and cucumbers and bell peppers and my mother would can. We had jars all around the wall in the house where we can all kinds of vegetables and fruits and we would grow all that stuff because we had all kind of trees, the peach trees and the pear trees, and we still have the pear trees. The fig trees, we would make the fig preserved and everything you can imagine, we had it. And we lived in a fairly decent house, a great, big house and that house burned down. | 29:22 |
Gregory Hunter | When? | 30:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Must been about 1943. The house burned down and my daddy built another house and he built it even bigger that time. He had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, about by five or six bedrooms and— | 30:50 |
Gregory Hunter | Your father made good money? | 31:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, we made the money. All of us worked for the money. My father just knew how to raise his children, knew how to take them out and we all worked because just like I said, we would gather our farm, then we would go and gather everybody else in the community because we would pick all of our cotton and go and pick somebody else's cotton. | 31:22 |
Gregory Hunter | Now mostly these Black people lived around you or were there also White people? | 31:45 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | There was also White people. | 31:47 |
Gregory Hunter | And how did y'all and other Black people get along with the White people? | 31:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, beautifully because you know how it was then. We knew how far to go and what to do. | 31:54 |
Gregory Hunter | What does that mean? | 32:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, my mother worked for a lady who lived just about a mile from us, but she always had to go out on the back porch to eat. She would go in there and cook the food and everything, but when she got ready to eat, she had to go on the back porch and eat. | 32:04 |
Gregory Hunter | And this is the White lady? | 32:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yeah. Whatever we did, we know we always had to do it outside. You know how it was back in that those times. I don't care how much you work for, they still don't care anything about you associating with them or anything and we worked in the watermelons and cantaloupes. Whatever was on the farm, we did it. | 32:20 |
Gregory Hunter | Were there ever times where problems broke out between Black and White people? | 32:55 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. No. | 33:02 |
Gregory Hunter | No? | 33:03 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, not out there. Everybody was friendly because even the Whites, if they had something to share, they would share it with us just like we did the Blacks. Well, they were three or four permanent Black families out there and somehow they would give certain people a little more respect. There was the Richert family living out. There was a Hall family. These family and my dad and the Portee family, all of these owned their own land, their own everything. They have their own equipment, their own—Well, you didn't have that much equipment then, but my daddy eventually, he did have a tractor, but they helped each other. They looked out for each other. We never really felt the segregated part of it, only thing in the schools. But as far as suffering for anything, we never did that. We never had to suffer for anything. Finally, this house got burned. | 33:03 |
Gregory Hunter | The second house got burned? | 34:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | The second house got burned. I had a brother who was living there and he was in a wheelchair. My mother had had a stroke and my brother was keeping her. When this house caught fire, my brother got my mother out because my mother had a stroke back in the '57 or somewhere along there. Then they decided to move to town. They moved to Sylvester. | 34:29 |
Gregory Hunter | What year was this? | 35:08 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I guess I had taught about two or three years. It must been May of 1957 or '58 or somewhere along there. And then my daddy moved here. He bought a house in Sylvester. It was later than that. It was in the 60s, just somewhere in the 60s because my other sister had graduated and I was working over there too, working at that school with me. It was somewhere in the 60s when it happened and by that time, my mother had had another stroke and she got down where she could not use the right arm, right side. My daddy started taking care of her. | 35:20 |
Gregory Hunter | When your father moved to the city, what did he do for a living? | 36:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | He was a painter. When he moved to the city, he started working with a contractor. He started working with Junior Marshall and he just started painting. And from then on, he just started painting and that's where he made his living. After a few years, it was time for him get on social security and he and my mother both got on social security so that's the way they lived. He did the painting and carpenter work. That's what he was doing. He usually kept a full-time job and then we would help them. We would help them. | 36:29 |
Gregory Hunter | Your father has passed away? | 37:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My mother and father. My mother passed away in '83 and my father passed away in '85. One brother passed away in '88, and then my other brother passed away in '93. | 37:30 |
Gregory Hunter | After you graduated from Albany State, you went to Worth? | 37:54 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Athens. I went to Athens. | 37:58 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, you went to Athens for a year and then what did you do there? | 38:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I was the librarian. | 38:05 |
Gregory Hunter | The librarian. | 38:07 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | And I was also a basketball coach. | 38:08 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, really? | 38:15 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. See, I had that child then so when I got a chance to come back home, they gave me a job back at home. That's how I came back to Sylvester. | 38:15 |
Gregory Hunter | Could you talk about your experience in Athens? | 38:23 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, yes. I enjoyed working there. It was just inconvenient being away from your family and it was so complicated getting from up there because the only way I could come on the bus and it would take me a whole day to come on the bus, which means if I left on Friday evening after school was out, I wouldn't get home until sometime until 12:00 or 1:00 that night because you had about two or three hours layover in Griffin, Georgia. I would try to come home every weekend because my husband was keeping my baby. Well, he was just only three then. My son was only three years old. And so finally, my husband got a car so I started driving, but it was still a long ride from home. But that's why I was trying to get a job back home so finally I did get the job. | 38:26 |
Gregory Hunter | And when you first started working back here in Worth County, was the school you taught as segregated or did it become segregated? I mean, integrated. | 39:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, it was not integrated when I started working. | 39:46 |
Gregory Hunter | And what was that school? What was the name of that school? | 39:48 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | J.W. Holley. | 39:50 |
Gregory Hunter | That was Holley. What was that school like? | 39:51 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | It's on Carter Road here in Sylvester. | 39:54 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. How was it teaching there? | 40:04 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, it was nice. Very nice. I taught couple of years maybe. I taught first grade. I taught fourth grade and then I taught sixth grade and I taught reading maybe about four years and then I started being the librarian. Then from then on to the time I retired, I was a librarian because there was such a great demand for librarians because there weren't anybody who really was certified as a librarian. We had two or three people certified in library, but not long after I started working, they changed it. Librarian changed to media specialist. That means the librarian had to take care all of the media, all of the equipment and everything, because all that was housed in the library so you had to take care of all of that. But the way I became certified, as soon as I finished college, I just went right on, kept going to school, and got certified in the library because you didn't have to have but 20 hours at that time. I started going back to work on my masters. And so, I went to Florida A&M, but they did. | 40:05 |
Gregory Hunter | When did you go there? | 41:22 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | It was about latter part of 1970. They didn't offer a master's in libraryship down there so I transferred to the University of Georgia and after that, I got sick. After that, I was in a car accident so I didn't ever get my masters. | 41:23 |
Gregory Hunter | And what year did they integrate the school that you were a librarian at? What year— | 42:12 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | J.W. Holley? Something about 1960. | 42:18 |
Gregory Hunter | 1960, okay. And at that point when they integrated the school, you went to work at the junior high school? | 42:30 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 42:36 |
Gregory Hunter | Which was called? | 42:36 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Worth County Junior High. | 42:38 |
Gregory Hunter | Worth County Junior High? | 42:40 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 42:42 |
Gregory Hunter | And can you talk about that? I mean, that seems to be something that was big, to go and to start teaching into a White school. Before then, you had only taught in Black schools. | 42:42 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | When they integrated, they knew they had rules and regulations to abide by and they knew in order to get federal money to operate on, they was going to have to go by these rules, the laws that were passed. And so really, we had no problem. It was about 50/50, 50 Black, 50 White, the percentage. | 42:55 |
Gregory Hunter | Faculty or students? | 43:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Faculty and student. It had to be that way. But the amazing thing in Albany, it was supposed to be 50/50, but in Albany, they voted to have zone, which mean all Blacks would fall in the Black community and all White would fall in the White community. But then they had to bus these students to make it balance out. But in Worth County, they had it arranged where everything would come out 50/50 and that's the way it came out, but we had a good system. | 43:26 |
Gregory Hunter | There were no problems even in— | 44:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | There was no problem. | 44:06 |
Gregory Hunter | —in the first days of- | 44:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | There was no problems. There were no problems. It was just like something that had been happening all the time, but then that depends on the administration. During that time, the principal let everybody knew that they had to abide what had happened. This is way we have to be operating from now on and we didn't have any racial problems or anything like that. | 44:06 |
Gregory Hunter | Even as faculty, did the other White teachers and administrators respect you all as Black teachers? | 44:42 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. They had to respect me because whatever they wanted, they had to go through me. See, as librarian, see, you'd be more or less on your own and I had my own department. Whatever they needed, I had to go operate all the equipment, all the videos. Well, they were just getting computers when I retired, but anyway, we had movies and things of that type and I had to go around, show them all the movies, and a lot of times I had to keep all of them classes, whatever. They said, "Well, I got to go to the doctor and I need somebody to keep my class," and most time I just did it. | 44:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We would have orientation. They would bring their classes and I would do orientation, but we didn't have any racial problems at all. Now when I was at Holly, we started off with a Black principal, but eventually we got a White principal and there was no different. Naturally, I don't care where you going, how it is, you're going to always see a little prejudice because if you go to eat, you're going to go and sit with your peers to eat. If I go to eat, I'm going to sit with my peers to eat. We go wherever you go. That makes it look like you're segregated because you got all the Blacks over here eating, all the Whites over here eating, but— | 45:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | But we never had any problems. So everything was just fine. | 0:04 |
Gregory Hunter | What about social life as a youngster yourself and also later on when you started to teach, what did people do for fun in the Black community? What did children do? What did young people do? What did grown folks do? | 0:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | When we were out in the country, we really had no social outlet because—Sometimes they would have little dances and things like that, but they used to have little—Back in my younger days, there was nothing to do as far as social life, not out in the country. You made your own social life. There was some little juke joints around in the community that the old people would go to, but there was really nothing for young people to do. I had to come into town. | 0:33 |
Gregory Hunter | How would you get into town? People would just walk into town a lot? | 1:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, we wouldn't walk to town. By the time time we got something to do, we had cars by that time. But we used to come to town on the wagon. We'd come to town on the wagon before we got a car and- | 1:25 |
Gregory Hunter | How far did you live from town? | 1:38 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I guess about eight miles because I lived about three miles from Shingler, about five miles from there to where I lived. It's a beautiful place out there. Since all of my daddy and his brothers and sisters have passed away—Well, we have my daddy's oldest sister, who's 86, is living. She's in Miami. My kid brother bought the farm from all the heirs. I have a brother who lives in DC now. He bought the farm. | 1:42 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | But my brother who died in 1993, he was the one who cared for it. They built two fishing ponds out there, and we'd go out there and fish. Oh, we got fig trees and pear trees still out there and pecan trees, but it's nobody to go out there to gather it. | 2:25 |
Gregory Hunter | So no one lives out there now? | 2:43 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, no, no. | 2:44 |
Gregory Hunter | It's just land? | 2:44 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Just land. | 2:44 |
Gregory Hunter | None of it is being farmed? | 2:44 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes, it's rented. My brother rents it. | 2:48 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay, okay. | 2:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | He rents the hunting rights and the farm. Every Thanksgiving, all of my other brothers come and they go squirrel and raccoon hunting. It's still enjoyable to go out there. We go out there and fish whenever we have time. Most of us work, but whenever we have time we go out there and fish and go out there and pick the figs and the pears or whatever. Nobody gathers the pecan because they don't have time to go out there and pick them up. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful place out there. | 2:52 |
Gregory Hunter | What are some of your other recollections from your childhood or from young age about life during the early years in the South? | 3:42 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Only thing I know when my mother and father used to go out, we used to cook. We used to kill the chickens and cook and get all the eggs and cook the eggs up. We'd finally find the nest and get the eggs. The rolling store came by every day. | 3:52 |
Gregory Hunter | What's the rolling store? | 4:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | It was just a big old truck, but it had goodies on it. It would come by every day. We'd get the eggs and buy the stuff out the rolling store, and they would take drink bottles. Back in those days, you got your drink in a bottle. We would trade the bottles on the rolling store. We would cook. One day, we were frying chicken and my mom and daddy came, and we had to put the chicken under the house. The chicken was under there, just frying. | 4:15 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My daddy went out there, and he smelled it. He went around and told my mother, "I smelled something cooking out there." He went out and looked under the house and found the chicken up under the house cooking. | 4:44 |
Gregory Hunter | So why was he mad that y'all were frying up some chicken outside? | 4:55 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We had killed a chicken. We would do that every time they leave home. We'd kill a chicken because she had- | 4:58 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, y'all wasn't supposed to? | 5:03 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No. She had so many chickens until she couldn't miss them anyway. You could hardly walk in the yard because she had so many chicken, all those different kinds of chicken. We'd just catch the chicken and kill them. But what she would do, she had a pen that she would put all the chicken that she was going to kill. They call it what you call it, cleaning out. She would put those chickens in there. | 5:05 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | So what we would do, we would get one of those chickens out there that been cleaned out and kill it and cook that and put another chicken in there. Sometimes she would discover that. She was like, "That's not the same chicken that I had in there." But we would do that. We'd make cakes. We'd just cook everything. We would get up there and take all that fruit and stuff down and open two or three jar and length them out so she couldn't tell it. We used to have a ball, man. Have a good time out there. | 5:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | It was nice and cool and breezy. It was just nice, very nice. One time a snake got in the well, and they had to fish the snake out of the well. It was a man out there by the name of Ben Kessing. He was the one that knew how to get the snake out the well. He had this long hook that he would let go down there, get that snake out of the well, catch that snake. We wouldn't drink the water after the snake was in the well, for a long time. | 6:00 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | My mother started boiling the water because we wouldn't drink it because we said a snake had been in the water and the water was poison. We weren't going to drink it. We would draw the water, and she would heat it for us to drink. Now, during my farming days, me being the oldest girl, on Wednesday, I would stay off. I would work a half a day, and I would stay off a half a day. I would wash. | 6:42 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | On Thursday, I would work a half a day. I'd stay off Thursday, and I would iron everybody's clothes. But it was so many of us, we had 15, 20 sheets. I had to iron all the sheets, all the pillowcases. I had to iron everything. But I've learned better now. You don't have to do all the ironing because the sheets and stuff made out of different material, too, now. You don't have to iron it. You just fold it up. But I had to iron all those sheets and things. | 7:13 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Of course, we would take the bag that the fertilizer [indistinct 00:07:54] would come in. That's the way we would make our sheets, bleach them out. Sew four of those bags together, and that's the way we would have our sheets. And then bleach it out and you have your pillowcase. They would just come just white and pretty. My daddy used to get the big bag of flour, and they started making these flour bags, making the design a flower, looking just like a material. | 7:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That's what we used for pillowcases, too. We would starch our things and iron them. They'd be so pretty. I started cooking when I was about five years old. I would stand on the bucket and make the biscuits. I'd go out there in the smokehouse and cook the meat, everything. But as the family grew and grew and grew, I had to do more and more and more because, just like I said, all the little kids were under me. | 8:24 |
Gregory Hunter | Did you find that difficult? | 9:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes, because I would get mad. Every time my mother got pregnant, I would get angry. I said, "Oh, Lord, not again." But my daddy was so helpful, and he was so supportive. We got up on Sunday morning. If I had to take care of the baby or take care of my mother, my daddy would cook breakfast. If he had to cook, I did the cleaning or he would do the cooking, vice versa. But we had a beautiful life out there as far as I'm concerned. | 9:09 |
Gregory Hunter | When folks got sick, real sick or just a little bit sick, how did they take- | 9:45 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | The doctor came. Dr. Sumner— | 9:50 |
Gregory Hunter | A traveling doctor? | 9:52 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. The doctor came. But most of my mother's kids, they had a midwife. My grandmother was a midwife. But Dr. Sumner delivered most of her last babies. | 9:53 |
Gregory Hunter | Was this a White or a Black doctor? | 10:09 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | White. White. We didn't have a Black doctor. | 10:09 |
Gregory Hunter | There were no Black doctors? | 10:13 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. No Black doctors. We didn't have but two White ones, Dr. Sumner and Dr. Stoner. And then after Dr. Sumner died, then Dr. Stoner was a doctor. We had two doctors, one dentist. We didn't even have a hospital that time. | 10:17 |
Gregory Hunter | Was it expensive to see one of the doctors? | 10:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Uh-uh. Like 4 or $5. | 10:44 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, yeah? | 10:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. They charged 15, $20 to deliver a baby. | 10:50 |
Gregory Hunter | And that wasn't that much? | 10:56 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, the cost of living was so low at that time. If I had 15, $20, you had a lot of money. You could do a lot with 15, $20 because you could take a dime and get you a big pop and a big Ike and Mike. Whereas, now you can't take a dollar and get that. So the cost of living was real low. So he would get his little grip and everything. He would come and cut the labor string and that kind of stuff, and that was it. | 10:56 |
Gregory Hunter | Were there any things that you feared? | 11:30 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Hm? | 11:32 |
Gregory Hunter | Were there any things that you feared when you were younger? | 11:33 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. Nothing but kittens and rats because my brother would always chase you with the kittens, and they would put the little rats in a Coca-Cola bottle and bring them home and shake them to us. We'd just run till we just panicked almost. But other than that, no. I didn't fear anything but the rats and kittens, I didn't fear babies, anything like that. I took care of my sisters and brothers. I still do. We're a very close family. | 11:36 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We look out for each other. Whatever one does for one, she does for the other, especially the ones that live right here. I have one sister who teaches over at Dougherty High School. I have one who's a claim adjuster for State Farm. My baby sister just moved back to Albany. But we just look out for each other, and they overprotect me because I was sick so long. They pamper me a lot. | 12:21 |
Gregory Hunter | That's good. When you started teaching at the junior high school, you said that was around 1960? | 13:04 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. '67 or '8? I think so, yes. | 13:15 |
Gregory Hunter | Also, around that time, that's the height of the civil rights movement, even here in the Albany area and around, the— | 13:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | We wouldn't dare. We had a lady superintendent and she said if you march, you will not have a job. If we saw the camera come anywhere, we'd live the building. We could not be seen on any TV or anything like that. We could not participate. [indistinct 00:13:50]. | 13:27 |
Gregory Hunter | I mean the threat was that you would lose your job if you did— | 13:50 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Right. | 13:56 |
Gregory Hunter | —even try to bother? And no one bothered? | 13:56 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. | 14:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Not in the school system? | 14:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No. No. Because, see, back in the '60s like that when you taught school, that was a great sacrifice because you scuffled to go to college. Or you scuffled to get out of high school, then you scuffled to go to college. It was a great sacrifice to go to college and finish college, then come back home and teach. So you're not going to do anything detrimental to you or to your job. | 14:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | She just let it be known that she didn't believe in marching and she didn't believe in what they were doing and you cannot take a part in it. If you do— | 14:34 |
Gregory Hunter | Was someone who believed in racial equality and— | 14:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, at that point, she didn't have a choice because once they integrated, they had to abide. | 14:50 |
Gregory Hunter | But do you know if personally she was someone who believed in— | 14:58 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Oh, yes. She would never say Negro. Back at that time, you all were Negro before you got Black and before you got African American or whatever. But anyway, she would never say Negro. She would say, "Nigger, nigger." But that's what she had been saying all her life, and so she never took time to learn how to say Negro. "There ain't no nigger going to come down here and tell me what to do about my schools." But she didn't last long. They soon got rid of her. | 15:02 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, really? | 15:45 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 15:46 |
Gregory Hunter | Why? | 15:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, she ran and somebody ran against her and voted her out. | 15:48 |
Gregory Hunter | What was her name? | 15:54 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Deriso. Lizzie J. Deriso. | 15:54 |
Gregory Hunter | Deriso? | 15:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 15:57 |
Gregory Hunter | How do you spell that name? | 15:58 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, she spells her D-E-R-I-S-O, Lizzie J. She was the superintendent at that time. | 15:59 |
Gregory Hunter | Now, were any protest groups like the NAACP or any of other groups active around here? | 16:09 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. Not at that time, no. | 16:17 |
Gregory Hunter | No? | 16:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No. | 16:19 |
Gregory Hunter | This is the beginning of the '60s? | 16:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Around the early '60s. Eventually, they got an NAACP, but it was kind of hush-hush. But there were a few people participating, and they were trying to do some things to start integration, but they had to get into it gradually. And then after they got it organized here, it didn't function because, I don't know, they started falling out. I don't know. I never really been a part of the NAACP, so I don't know what was the problem with it or what. | 16:25 |
Gregory Hunter | Are there any other things that you remember about that period in the early '60s in terms of what was going on? I mean you mentioned that the superintendent of the schools said that no one is to get involved or else they'll lose their job. But clearly, everyone was aware of what was going on in this area and across the South. What kind of an impact did it have on people here? | 17:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well— | 17:53 |
Gregory Hunter | From what you recall? | 17:55 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, you know how it is in a small city, a small community. But people have always known what they had to do. I hate to use the term Black and White. But the Blacks in this community have always known what they had to do. | 17:57 |
Gregory Hunter | Which is? | 18:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Which is they had to abide by whatever the Whites said. But as time passed when we got more free, we could do things more freely. They always say we wanted equal rights. Well, integration helped in one way, but it hurt in another one. Because you put your Black child in that White teacher's room, if he doesn't get it and keep up, she's not going to take any extra time to go there and say, "Come on. You didn't cross your T or you didn't dot your I." So in that way, it hurt our Black children. | 18:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | If you can't go for yourself and get it yourself, then they're not going to give you any extra help. Now, if you got a Black teacher, the teacher can't be partial toward the Black because then the Whites going to say you're prejudiced. So what you got to do is you just got to stand up there before the class and teach. You can't give any personal help because, either way, they're going to say you're prejudiced. | 19:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | So if you are not able to function and keep up with your group, whereas some of our Blacks need individual help. You want to go back to this student class and say, "Hey, you spelled the, T-H-E, not T-H-O." But you're kind of tense about doing those type things because it does put you on the spot. Plus, you don't have that time to give the Blacks the type of help that they need because it's no secret. Everybody know that we are behind. | 19:31 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | There are many reasons why we are behind because, in the first place, we didn't have the facilities way back in—Even before they integrated, we didn't have the facilities that we needed. So as the years passed and when time came that we should have been up there where the Whites are, we're just not there. So as a result, the Blacks are behind and, the colleges, they say they're behind. They fall way below the average country. | 20:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | But like I said, the Black colleges are behind because the students leaving the high schools and have not gotten what they were supposed to have gotten to be on a normal level. But it's getting better. It's left up. Now, it's kind of left in your hands. You know what you got to do. You going to have to do it because nobody's going to take you by your hand and leave you anymore. You got to be on your own. | 20:54 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | So these students these days, they're wasting their time. Time is so valuable now. The White teachers, they don't care about you learning. You may find one every now and then may take up a little time with the Blacks, but then the Blacks are resentful. So as a result of that, we still stay in the same rut. But our children, they find everything to do except get their lesson. There are some exceptions. Now, when I was teaching, I didn't teach after they integrated. But I've had classes. I've dealt with groups. | 21:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I've had to deal with the groups. I'll tell you a good experience. I always had a homeroom. Even though I was a librarian, I had a homeroom. Every quarter or every year, I would let two people volunteer to assist me because you wouldn't believe the paperwork that—Teachers have so much paperwork until I almost had to teach anyway. But anyway, I would let them volunteer. Every morning, I had a Black one and a White one. | 22:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Every time I changed homeroom, I'd have a Black one and a White one. So every morning, this little White girl would come in and she would sit down and she'd do whatever it is on the desk to be done. The little Black girl wouldn't come until the bell rings. So she told one of her friends. She said, "Ms. Watkins like Melanie better than she does me." So one day, I finally asked her. I said, "Why did you say I like Melanie better than I do you?" I said, "I like you just as much as I do Melanie. Why did you say that?" | 23:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | She say, "Well, you let her do everything." I said, "No, I don't let her do everything. She's always here to do it." I said, "Now, if you would come on in when you get here, you'd have the same privilege she does. It's not that because you're Black, because you're White." That's what she said, "Because I'm Black." She said, "She let her do everything because she White. I'm Black." | 24:04 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I said, "That is not true. You have the same opportunity that she does. Her seat is over here, yours over here. If you want to do it, you have plenty of time to come in every morning." She's like, "Yeah, you let Melanie write all the names and call the roll and all that." I said, "But you're never here to do it. If you would come in here and be here to do it when you're supposed to, then you have the same chance, the same opportunity. You can do the same identical thing." | 24:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | So finally, she started coming. She started coming, getting in there. When she get there, she'd come right on in there. She said, "Ms. Watkins, what you want me to do this morning?" I said, "Oh, you can call the roll for me, whatever." But that helped her. She didn't tell me. She told her friend. She told her friend. | 24:56 |
Gregory Hunter | I can pause it. | 25:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That's the thing you have to go up against sometimes. Our children mean well. It's just that they don't know. See, that had to happen for her to know what she was supposed to do. So you have all kinds of experiences with students. | 25:23 |
Gregory Hunter | Earlier, you were talking about community, about how back when you were younger in the country, everyone seemed to support each other. Everyone was really cooperative, Black people and White people. If you had some food left over, you'd give it to other people and everybody would try to help each other out. | 25:48 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Not left over. If you killed hogs, you just automatically sent everybody a mess of fresh meat. | 26:04 |
Gregory Hunter | Now, do you see it that way today? | 26:12 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, you don't have people in the country anymore. If they're farming, they don't live on the farm. They just go out there and farm. Now, more people are getting back to the country. They're building houses out, but they're not farming. They're not in a farming area. People would rather go buy the meat now rather than go raise a hog, but plus the fact they don't have anything to raise a hog. | 26:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Even if you got a big house out in the country, you don't want a hog around your house, smelling and all that kind of stuff. But you just don't have hogs like that anymore. | 26:48 |
Gregory Hunter | You don't see a real difference in terms of the way people are, but just a difference in terms of the way that people have their jobs— | 27:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | [indistinct 00:27:07]— | 27:06 |
Gregory Hunter | —and people live their lives? | 27:07 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Different in society. But there are so many more opportunities for people than there were back then. There are so many things going on. Automation has grown so until there's just no comparison back in the '60s and now because If you're not going to the movies, you're going to the Polecats game, all that kind of stuff. You're going to the Civic Center for some reason. But back in those days, you didn't have that kind of stuff. | 27:08 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | It's always something to be doing. During the summer, they have so many programs going on now until you don't have to worry. Only thing you got to do is get up. Stop being so lazy and get up and go get your children in a program. They go and they have somebody to take care of them all day. They give them a free meal. But some of us don't even do that. They let the children run around in the streets, get run over by cars and all that kind of stuff when they could have them in a summer program. | 28:12 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | They got all kinds of summer programs. See, that just started happening where you had different activities for the young people. They have the free lunch program where people don't have anything to do but bring their children right here and get their free lunch. They'll come and get that. Sometime they come in here. Ms. Conway tell them. She said, "They want food." We give everybody and anybody food. | 28:51 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | She'll tell them, "Y'all get food stamps." They'll get their food stamps today, and they'll come here tomorrow wanting food. She'll say, "You just got your food stamps. What did you do with your food stamps?" But we help everybody. | 29:34 |
Gregory Hunter | I wanted to turn now and ask you some particular questions about your family, like names and different things like that, and about yourself as well. What's your middle name? | 29:56 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Lee. | 30:09 |
Gregory Hunter | Lee? | 30:09 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | L-E-E. | 30:11 |
Gregory Hunter | L-E-E? | 30:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Uh-huh. | 30:11 |
Gregory Hunter | And what's your maiden name? | 30:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | P-O-R-T-E-E. | 30:15 |
Gregory Hunter | Portee, okay. What's your address? | 30:22 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 1139 East Roosevelt Avenue, Albany 31705. | 30:23 |
Gregory Hunter | What's the ZIP code? 31705? Can you tell me your date of birth again? | 30:39 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 07/24/32. | 30:49 |
Gregory Hunter | You have one coming up soon, huh? | 30:53 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. | 30:55 |
Gregory Hunter | You were born in | 30:55 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Worth County. | 30:57 |
Gregory Hunter | In Worth County. What's your home telephone number? | 31:14 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 883-4110. | 31:17 |
Gregory Hunter | 4410? What's your husband's name? | 31:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | James. | 31:34 |
Gregory Hunter | And his middle name? | 31:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | A. Watkins. | 31:47 |
Gregory Hunter | When was he born? | 31:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I can't think right now. Go on to the next question. | 32:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. Where was he born? | 32:03 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mitchell County. | 32:04 |
Gregory Hunter | Which one? | 32:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mitchell. | 32:07 |
Gregory Hunter | Mitchell? | 32:08 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Uh-huh. | 32:09 |
Gregory Hunter | he's worked on the railroad all of his life or does he do something different now? | 32:18 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | He passed away in '75. | 32:23 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, he did? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't remember you saying that. But up until then, he worked in the railroad? | 32:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. And he was a cab driver. | 32:34 |
Gregory Hunter | What's your mother's name? | 32:43 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Martha, M-A-R-T-H-A. | 32:44 |
Gregory Hunter | Her middle name? | 32:47 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | P. Brown. | 32:50 |
Gregory Hunter | Brown. What was her maiden name? | 32:53 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Her maiden name was Brown. | 32:59 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, her maiden name was Brown. Okay. | 33:00 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Her married name was Portee. | 33:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. Do you remember when she was born? | 33:01 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | March 3, 1911. | 33:17 |
Gregory Hunter | What year did she pass, in '84 you said? | 33:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | '83. | 33:38 |
Gregory Hunter | '83. Was she born in— | 33:38 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Worth County. | 33:38 |
Gregory Hunter | In Worth County, also. What did she do? | 33:40 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | She was a housewife. | 33:48 |
Gregory Hunter | And your father's name? | 33:53 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Obediah, O-B-E-D-I-A-H. | 33:56 |
Gregory Hunter | His middle name? | 33:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | He doesn't have one. | 34:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Portee. Do you remember when he was born? | 34:12 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | February 2, 1909. | 34:15 |
Gregory Hunter | He passed in 1985? He's also from Worth County, born in Worth County? | 34:21 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. | 34:29 |
Gregory Hunter | Do you remember how they met? No? Your father was a farmer? | 34:34 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 34:41 |
Gregory Hunter | And a painter? | 34:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 34:51 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. And your brothers and sisters? | 34:52 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Their names? | 34:55 |
Gregory Hunter | And birthday. If you can— | 34:57 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Are you kidding me? You should have told me to bring my Bible. | 35:01 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, is that right? Yeah. | 35:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I can remember— | 35:08 |
Gregory Hunter | Because it's all written in there, huh? | 35:09 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. I'll give you the names. I can't remember the birthdate right now. | 35:10 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay, that's good. | 35:15 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | William Henry Portee. Larmarvin Portee, L-A-R-M-A-R-V-I-N. | 35:16 |
Gregory Hunter | Portee? | 35:27 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 35:30 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. They were all born in Worth County? | 35:34 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Johnny Lee Portee. | 35:40 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 35:40 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Obediah Portee. | 35:40 |
Gregory Hunter | Junior? | 35:58 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | He's not really a junior. His name is Darren Obediah. | 36:01 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. | 36:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I don't know how they got that. He's not a junior, but that's what his name is. Ethel Robinson. | 36:03 |
Gregory Hunter | Robinson? | 36:17 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 36:20 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 36:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Gladys Hall. Ralph Portee. | 36:23 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 36:31 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Freda Venisee. | 36:38 |
Gregory Hunter | Freda, F-R-E-D-A? | 36:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | V-E-N-I-S-E-E. | 36:43 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 36:43 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Gordon Portee. And Brenda Macon. | 36:50 |
Gregory Hunter | What's her last name? | 37:00 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Macon, M-A-C-O-N. | 37:00 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. You were the first born or? | 37:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I'm the second. | 37:07 |
Gregory Hunter | Second born. And your children's names? | 37:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Carlton Alonzo Watkins. | 37:14 |
Gregory Hunter | And when was he born? | 37:16 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | January 21, 1954. | 37:26 |
Gregory Hunter | Was he born in Sylvester? | 37:32 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Worth County? | 37:33 |
Gregory Hunter | Worth County. Okay. | 37:33 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Not Worth County, Dougherty County. I'm sorry. | 37:35 |
Gregory Hunter | Dougherty County, okay. | 37:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Dougherty County. | 37:37 |
Gregory Hunter | In Albany? | 37:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 37:37 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 37:37 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Eartha Johnson. | 37:49 |
Gregory Hunter | When was she born? | 37:58 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | August 12, 1960. See, when I started having children, I forgot all of my sisters' and brothers' birthdate. | 37:58 |
Gregory Hunter | You had to remember your own kids'. Do you have any grandchildren? | 38:06 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | One. | 38:22 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. Could you just list for me the different places you've lived starting with Worth County out in the country? Just the addresses. | 38:22 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Okay. I lived in Shingler. You want the address? | 38:32 |
Gregory Hunter | Mm-hmm. | 38:38 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Route 1, Poulan, Georgia. | 38:39 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. | 38:41 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 711 North Carroll Street— | 38:47 |
Gregory Hunter | This is a different one or is that the same- | 38:49 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | No, that's all in Worth County. | 38:51 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. 711? | 38:54 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | North Carroll, Albany. | 38:55 |
Gregory Hunter | How do you spell that? C-A? | 38:58 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | C-A-R-R-O-L-L. | 38:59 |
Gregory Hunter | North Carroll. That's in? | 39:03 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Albany. 1333 East Hill, Albany. And then 1139 East Roosevelt. | 39:04 |
Gregory Hunter | All right. You lived in Worth County until 1949? Then you lived on North Carroll for how long? From [indistinct 00:39:49]— | 39:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Let me see. About 10 years, I guess. Let me see. I've been in Albany almost 30 years. I've been where I am now about 20 years. | 39:49 |
Gregory Hunter | At which place? | 40:23 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I've been where I am now about 20 years. | 40:28 |
Gregory Hunter | On what street? You been on Roosevelt Street? | 40:30 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Roosevelt. So I've been earlier on Carroll, I'll just say. I guess about five years. | 40:45 |
Gregory Hunter | Since when? Since 1950? | 40:46 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I guess so. I really lived on 1333 East Hill before I lived on Carroll. | 40:57 |
Gregory Hunter | How long did you live there? | 41:00 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | About five or six years. | 41:05 |
Gregory Hunter | What was the name of the schools you went to? | 41:15 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I went to- | 41:19 |
Gregory Hunter | Starting with the grade school. | 41:19 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Well, they called it Shingler Elementary, I guess. | 41:24 |
Gregory Hunter | [indistinct 00:41:32]— | 41:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Then Oak Hill High. | 41:33 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. You stayed at Shingler until sixth grade? | 41:44 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 41:48 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. And then you went to— | 41:48 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | You got Oak Hill? | 42:11 |
Gregory Hunter | Mm-hmm. | 42:11 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Albany. | 42:11 |
Gregory Hunter | Albany State. How long did you stay at Albany State? Three years? | 42:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 42:26 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. And then you went to? | 42:27 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Florida A&M. | 42:34 |
Gregory Hunter | Where in Florida? Is that in Tallahassee? | 42:34 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 42:34 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. What years did you go there? You said in the late '70s? | 42:48 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. | 42:58 |
Gregory Hunter | For how long? Just two years you went there? | 43:20 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Just one year. | 43:24 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. And then you— | 43:24 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Went to University of Georgia. | 43:28 |
Gregory Hunter | And that's in Macon? | 43:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Athens. | 43:28 |
Gregory Hunter | Athens, Georgia. | 43:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That was in about 1984. | 43:28 |
Gregory Hunter | How long did you stay there? | 43:28 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Just one year. | 43:28 |
Gregory Hunter | Now I just want go over your jobs. Your last one, you were the librarian at Worth County Junior High? | 43:30 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-hmm. | 43:41 |
Gregory Hunter | And then before that, you were a teacher? | 43:49 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I was a librarian at—What's the name of that school? Clark? I can't even think of the name of that school. | 43:51 |
Gregory Hunter | That was the one where you were at one year? | 43:51 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | In Athens, uh-huh. I believe it was AS Clark. | 43:53 |
Gregory Hunter | What year was that? | 44:45 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | 1955, '56. | 44:49 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. Before that, you were a teacher, right? | 44:49 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That was the first job I had then. | 45:01 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. In Worth County, you started in 1960? | 45:02 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Uh-uh. I started Worth County. I worked in Athens one year. That was the '55, '56 school year. The next year, which would have been '56, '57 school year, that's when I came back to Worth County. | 45:11 |
Gregory Hunter | And you stayed there till 19— | 45:25 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Until 1980— | 45:26 |
Gregory Hunter | '4? | 45:26 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | '85. When did I retired? '87. '87. | 45:30 |
Gregory Hunter | Oh, okay. Have you ever received any awards or honors or held any offices in any organization? | 45:36 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Yes. Then again, I wish I had brought my book. I was woman of the year, but I don't remember the year though. | 45:58 |
Gregory Hunter | For what group? | 46:16 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | That was for Baronettes Club. | 46:19 |
Gregory Hunter | The Baron? | 46:23 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Baronettes. B-A-R-O-N-E-T-T-E. | 46:23 |
Gregory Hunter | You can't remember the year? | 46:31 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Mm-mm. I can't remember the year. | 46:31 |
Gregory Hunter | Do you remember any other awards or honor? | 46:35 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | I can't right offhand. | 46:40 |
Gregory Hunter | Okay. What's your religious denominator? Baptist? | 46:44 |
Jurl Portee Watkins | Baptist. | 46:47 |
Gregory Hunter | And the name of the church you go— | 46:47 |
Item Info
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