Daisy Livingston interview recording, 1995 August 03

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Doris Dixon	Mrs. Livingston, could you please state your full name and date of birth?	0:01
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Daisy Thomas Livingston, March 25, 1926.	0:06
Doris Dixon	Mrs. Livingston, where were you born?	0:17
Daisy Thomas Livingston	In Leflore County, Greenwood, Mississippi.	0:19
Doris Dixon	In the town of Greenwood, or out surrounding?	0:25
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I guess we'd call it suburbs now. Yeah, it was not in the city proper. Mm-hmm.	0:30
Doris Dixon	And did you grow up on a farm?	0:38
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No.	0:39
Doris Dixon	Would you explain to me the neighborhood or the community you grew up in?	0:46
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, the neighborhood that we lived in was a subdivision. And it was the workplace of the Buckeye Oil Mill and the oil mill made cotton seed oil, extracted the seeds from the cotton and made oil and other things. And it was one of the places of employment for the people of the community, the town and surrounding towns and Black and White worked there. It was probably one of the best jobs at that time in the community. Of course, other jobs were in the cotton fields surrounding the town of Greenwood and the people worked there.	0:46
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Of course Blacks works in the homes as cooks, maids, babysitters. The men would do the yard. They worked in the stores, the grocery stores as porters, busboys or what have you. So those were the jobs mostly. There were a few who were independently employed, like barbers, cafe owners, beauticians as now. There were some who might, I know Ms. Rose, but she had a grocery store across from the school where we would leave school and go at the break and spend our pennies or nickels or whatever we had.	1:47
Doris Dixon	Did your parents work at the Buckeye Mill?	2:36
Daisy Thomas Livingston	My father did. My mother worked in a home. She was a housekeeper.	2:42
Doris Dixon	[indistinct 00:02:49]. What are some of your earliest memories of—How many years first did you live in that part?	2:53
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Live in that part? Until I got married, until I was 18. I got married when I was 18 years old. So I lived there until I was 18.	3:01
Doris Dixon	What are some of your earliest memories of growing up ?	3:11
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Where we lived?	3:16
Doris Dixon	Yes.	3:16
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Beautiful. It was everybody, every grownup, an adult, all my friends, everybody was your mama, really. Wherever you played, if it was dinnertime, that's where you ate. Everybody was just like one big family. And we really all loved each other. Then it was not as it is today. Everybody knew each other very well, just like family, really. And extended family, I would say. And there were a school out there with one teacher, but I didn't attend that school. I walked about five or six miles maybe farther to school. I walked first to McLaurin Street School for elementary. And then you passed by Dickerson Elementary. That was a high school, when I was going I walked from out there to go to high school, right over there on Stone Street.	3:19
Daisy Thomas Livingston	So you can imagine from this is down where you came from Valley, you crossed to the river bridge way down there, right in there was where we lived at that time. And we walked from there to Stone Street School over here to school every day. And of course we went to the movie up here and everything. We went to the grocery stores. We would come from down there with our mom's and we didn't have any transportation. And my brothers and I would come with mom and we would get the groceries and take them to and back home. Now what else? You have to ask some question because I don't—	4:37
Doris Dixon	Okay, then did you know your grandparents?	5:21
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh yes, yes. My grandmama did live out on a farm with some old nieces and aunts and things. And she would be there during the time of picking cotton, planting cotton and picking cotton. She would only come home to live with us when ever—They called it laid by. When everything was done, she'd come home for the winter and we would be glad to have her. And our grandfather would stay on because they had livestock out there that he had to help look after. And so yes, I knew my grandmother and grandfather.	5:22
Doris Dixon	Did they ever tell you about any of their experiences, about their youth, about some of the things that they had to go through?	6:11
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes. My grandfather, my mother, my grandmother never talked too much about it, but my grandfather owned a lot of land in Yazoo County. His people did, and some of it was taken from him. And of course he had a fight about that. And some he retained, but some he didn't. He lost it through the courts, but I forget how it was lost through the courts. But some was left, some of the land was left. And he and his brothers, Uncle Woody, all of them, the land was handed down to them. And Uncle Woody had some land left when he died not too long ago. And my grandfather had some land. And now with my grandmama, not my maternal grandmother because she died long time ago. Now my grandmother, or grandfather married her lately, she's still living, but she lives down in Eden, Mississippi. That's in Yazoo County.	6:20
Doris Dixon	And this is you—	7:42
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Grandfather's wife, but not my mother's grand—because she's did. She died early. Yeah, she died early. But Mama Clara's down there.	7:42
Doris Dixon	Do you ever have much occasion to go down to the farm?	7:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	All the time? All the time. When I was a child I would go down there all the time and I would go down there and work sometime or take my sisters and brothers with me. We didn't know much about working, but we would try to do my aunts and things were doing. And when we would get ready to come home, since we didn't live on the farm, Mama Clara would—The train would run then. We don't have a train running through here now, but then we did on the same route Amtrak will take when they come back. I think they're supposed to start the trip back again soon.	8:07
Daisy Thomas Livingston	But anyway, she would put the cornmeal, they would ground the corn and make cornmeal and she would put up all kind of vegetables and things and they'd put them in jars and these baskets and boxes and things. We would just have everything bringing it home and they would put us on the train. And when we would get down here in Greenwood at the train station, we had one Black person who had a car. He called it his taxi cab. And his name, we called him, was Kind Friend. And that's all I ever knew.	8:46
Doris Dixon	Kind Friend?	9:24
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Kind Friend, and I don't know if that was his real name or just what they called it, but he was a little humpback fellow. But anyway, I remember he charged a quarter if you had packages and it was 15 cents if you didn't, so he would just pile his car with all that I told you we would bring from the farm and he would take me back down to the Buckeye where I told you where we lived. Uh-huh, yes. I used to go to go down there to the farm. Yeah, I sure did.	9:25
Doris Dixon	Now where was the Buckeye?	10:01
Daisy Thomas Livingston	It's where I told you, where you come across the—	10:04
Doris Dixon	Right, right.	10:06
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yeah, see at the Buckeye Oil Mill and they called it, where we lived, the Buckeye Quarters. So the name of the thing was the Buckeye Oil Mill. And where we lived, they called that the Buckeye Quarters because there were homes there and we lived there, we lived there, in front of us, same Whites lived. They had where they lived, you see, right in front of us. The only thing that separated the two divisions were, it was a cotton field running through there and roads of course. But it was a cotton field down there. Well right where you came across coming from Valley today. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	10:06
Doris Dixon	And so you would bring food and other things from the country?	10:53
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, I would. Yeah, yeah.	10:56
Doris Dixon	And did your parents share this with their neighbors?	10:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, yes. Yes. I remember when I was young, if one had had flour and the other one didn't have any flour, they would swap. Like my grandmama or mother would give flour to them. And she said, "Well I got cornmeal." And then they would give cornmeal. Yes, they shared, they shared everything. If somebody had a cow, they would give milk and then they would give butter, give, not sell, give milk or give butter.	11:02
Daisy Thomas Livingston	If maybe somebody come from the country and maybe bring my mom what they call a bushel of potatoes or sweet potatoes, then we would go with little bags in paper, whatever, all around they would be giving it out, dividing it. And then few people would have a pig down there, but not many. Everybody would save the scraps and they would feed the pig. And then the wintertime, when time come to kill the pig, everybody got a portion of the pig. So yes, it was sharing, I call it loving and sharing. And now I look back and I think it was a very good time. A very good time.	11:43
Doris Dixon	Now were there those who didn't want to share?	12:34
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I didn't know them. I didn't know them. I didn't know them.	12:38
Doris Dixon	Can you say you look back now and see that it was a good time?	12:45
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I think it was a good time as far as people getting along and loving each other and trusting each other.	12:50
Doris Dixon	Did you think it was a good time when you experienced that?	12:56
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I thought that was good. But as you naturally know what I didn't like, I didn't like walking by a school to come way over here to a Black school. I didn't like that. I didn't like my mama having to work for low wages, and those things I didn't like. But as far as being neighborly and loving and trusting and whatnot, I'm sure there must have been stealing. But I don't know, or nobody stealing anything. We didn't even have keys to lock the door. The door was always open. So that's what I think was good compared to now, here we all bought up and now we might have a little money, but we all bought up and we're afraid to trust anybody. So that's what I mean about some things I think were good. But I never liked being made to feel like a second-class citizen. Of course, I never liked that.	13:04
Doris Dixon	So you said you did somehow feel like a second-class citizen or that you were treated different?	14:10
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh of course. Of course. There was a theater and there was a part for Colored and there was a part for White, there were water fountains and there were White and there were Colored, there were bathrooms that were White and then there was Colored. And sometimes there were places where you couldn't go at all, like maybe a country club or a nice cafe unless you worked in there. So yes, those things I didn't like. Mm-hmm.	14:18
Doris Dixon	Now it seems to me that White people construct these barriers to make Black people feel inferior, among other things, that they were trying to instill certain inferiority. But did you ever internalize these? I mean it's one thing to be treated like a second-class citizen, but did you ever feel like one?	14:45
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, I really didn't. I never did feel like it, because I had a wise grandmama and mama. And like I told you, my granddaddy had land and we were always taught that we were as good as anybody. And that's the way I felt.	15:12
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And my grandmama and grandpapa had a real, real sense of worth. They talked about Africa and Haile Selassie all the time and they talked about how he was descended from the queen of long time ago. I can't do it. But they could trace his ancestry way back to biblical days. And they say that was where we came from.	15:35
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And then we had a teacher, Mrs. Brooks, who taught us that, she said, "What goes around, come around." And she told us that the Egyptians and whatnot were our brothers, and there were a time when they had, we were enslaver and made like a second-class citizen, that we had done that to the other to the Caucasian race at one time in history. And I don't know that we came from queens and kings. And a lot of us, I wasn't the only one, but there were more of us, yes, we felt like we was good as anybody. We sure did.	16:08
Doris Dixon	So you were taught Black history in the home?	16:57
Daisy Thomas Livingston	That's right. You are exactly right. We were.	16:58
Doris Dixon	Could you tell me some more about what you were taught?	17:03
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well, we were taught about of course the Negro spirituals. And we were told, which I wouldn't know, that in the hot sun and the backbreaking work that the Blacks would do all day from sun up until sundown, they would sing these songs and how they would make them up and everybody would put in a verse. And they would do it long enough until sometime it would make the whole song with the different verses that they taught us that. And what else did they teach us? I think we had some very good teachers.	17:07
Daisy Thomas Livingston	They taught us about a lot of things. They also taught us that the South needed the slaves and to feel inferior, because we made the money for them with the cotton, the cotton fields and everything. And we were also taught that there were Blacks in Africa and the Caribbeans and everything who sold Blacks to these Whites to bring to South Carolina or to Natchez, Mississippi or New Orleans, to bring us here as slaves. We were taught that too.	18:02
Doris Dixon	Where were you before, do you know where your people came from before Mississippi. Were they from South Carolina?	19:06
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No. I don't know where they came from before Mississippi. I sure don't. I don't know that. But I do know early on my grandmother, my mother's mother went to Pittsburgh. Now while she went I've forgotten why she went. But my mother didn't like it up there. And they came back. They came back to Mississippi.	19:15
Doris Dixon	Your mother's mother?	19:40
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, yes, yes. And my mother didn't like it. I think she was a teenager. I'm not sure how old she was, but they came back. Now why my mom—My grandma was a very good cook. So that might have been a reason, one reason why she went, I don't know. But I know my mama didn't like it. And they said my grandmama brought her back. And my mother was an only child by my grandma, by my maternal grandmother. My mother was an only child. But now my grandfather had many children. Mm-hmm.	19:42
Doris Dixon	Now, were any of your people involved in politics? Was there anything—	20:15
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No.	20:20
Doris Dixon	—[indistinct 00:20:21].	20:20
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-mm, mm-mm, not when I was a child. Uh-uh, no.	20:21
Doris Dixon	Never heard anything about maybe being involved in Reconstruction politics or anything like that?	20:25
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, I don't. I don't remember, I don't know if anybody was in the Reconstruction part of it. I really don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I know my grandfather was a very progressive fellow. Now I don't know if he tried to pay his poll tax and I think he did. I think he paid poll tax and I think he voted, if I remember, in Yazoo County. Mm-hmm, because I don't remember too, I kind of remember a little bit about the poll tax, but I think he paid poll tax or whatever you call that.	20:26
Doris Dixon	Did your parents or you pay the poll tax?	21:17
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, no, no, no. I didn't pay them poll tax. Mm-mm.	21:19
Doris Dixon	So did you first start voting in the '60s, early 60s?	21:23
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm, yeah, I started voting in the '60s. Mm-huh, yeah, I started voting in the '60s.	21:24
Doris Dixon	How many years did your father work at Buckeye? Or for approximately how long?	21:37
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Let me see, until about 1940. '40 I believe, about 1940. He took sick and he died after that, mm-hmm, about 1940. 1940.	21:54
Doris Dixon	At that time, where was the family living or were you—	22:13
Daisy Thomas Livingston	We were still living down there. I call it the Buckeye Quarters. Mm-hmm, that's where we were, we were still living there. We were still living there. My mother only moved up to Greenwood proper when I was already married. When I was already married. When I was married, that's when she moved. Moved, I call it, up here in the city from out the suburbs, she moved where she could walk to town. When it's easy to walk to town and all. And I was already married then because I got married at 18, when I was 18 years old.	22:19
Doris Dixon	So you finished school with High Street?	23:00
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Stone Street.	23:01
Doris Dixon	Stone Street, sorry, Stone Street.	23:02
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Uh-huh, uh-huh. No, I didn't finish school at Stone Street. I was in the 12th grade and I was pregnant and I didn't go back. But I took the GED test and I took nursing at Valley State in 1951 when they had the first nursing class over there. Mm-hmm.	23:04
Doris Dixon	And did you, could you go on to become a nurse?	23:27
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, uh-huh, uh-huh, yes.	23:32
Doris Dixon	What were the prospects for Black women in nursing during those days and before the '50s?	23:35
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well before the '50s, we had the midwives who delivered the babies and whatnot. We had quite a few of those. And we had a hospital, but I remember we had one Black RN, her name was Mrs. Neva B Jackson. And she trained ladies, I wasn't one of them, they were older than I am. She trained those ladies to work in the hospital with her. A doctor owned this hospital and it was where the Colored people went, as they called. But she trained the help that she had. And in the '50s when this big hospital where you passed, down in Greenwood, Leflore, it wasn't as big then as it is now, came into being. Those nurses had to go to a school and be certified. So they went to be certified. And of course when Valley came, then new people would go over there and take the course and pass the state board. And then they started working in there, but before that we didn't have that. You might would have to go out of—I think they had to leave Mississippi.	23:44
Doris Dixon	Leave the whole state?	25:18
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I believe Ms. Jackson did. I believe Ms. Jackson did. Now, I don't know if she went—I won't say where I think she went. I don't know if she went to Alabama because I think the Seventh-day Adventist people had a nursing school. But even then, but I'm not sure. So I won't say where Ms. Jackson went. But I know she was the only RN that I knew and her husband was an elder in the Methodist Church. So I guess I could see why she might have been able to go off to school. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	25:20
Doris Dixon	Now after these nurses were certified, were they able to come back and practice at Greenwood?	25:55
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. They worked there. Yeah, they worked there.	26:02
Doris Dixon	Yeah, were they RNs or LPNs?	26:06
Daisy Thomas Livingston	LPNs and RNs, mm-hmm. And Valley had LPN school and then they had a school for RNs. Uh-huh, yeah.	26:09
Doris Dixon	Now was nursing your first job?	26:19
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No. When I was in high school I was a babysitter and I worked a little in the fields. I picked cotton a little bit, but not much. I didn't like it. I didn't like the outdoors and I still don't, I would rather babysit. But now some of my friends didn't want to babysit. They would rather pick cotton or chop cotton. But I didn't.	26:22
Doris Dixon	So you preferred babysitting?	26:44
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm.	26:44
Doris Dixon	How much were you getting paid back then to babysit?	26:44
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, I might would get 50 cents a week and then I might would get 75 cents if the people went out more often than usual. And sometime the men of the house, at the end of the day, he might would tip you something. But the wives usually took care of paying the help. So sometime you would make maybe as much as a dollar and a quarter for the whole week. But see I could take that quarter and buy so much with it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I could buy so much with a quarter. Yeah.	26:51
Doris Dixon	And did you have particular families, or one or two families that you worked with?	27:27
Daisy Thomas Livingston	One or two families. Uh-huh, yeah, one or two families. One or two families. And one special family that I always worked for, right up until I married. Uh-huh, yeah.	27:32
Doris Dixon	And were there some places that you liked working more or less than others?	27:44
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah. I like the Smith family very much. Yeah, she's still my friend. She's still living and she's a friend of mine and the children, they all respect me. Mm-hmm, yeah, they respect me. Mm-hmm, because her husband's been long dead, but she's still living. I see her sometimes and I call her sometimes. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	27:49
Doris Dixon	And were there other places that you liked working less than the Smith family?	28:16
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, because really and truly when I was a child, if I didn't like them, I didn't work for them. And then of course when I worked in the hospital, we had what you call a section for Colored people and that's where we worked. And then we had Black people working in the operating room and in the central supply, where the supplies would go out to the whole hospital. And we had them who worked in the kitchen and in the laundry and places like that. But I was down in a nursing capacity because I went to Valley State in '51. Mm-hmm.	28:21
Doris Dixon	They had to work in the Colored section at the time?	29:04
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh yes, that's where we worked at, the nurses worked. Yeah, that's where we worked. But now they work everywhere of course in the hospital. Mm-hmm.	29:07
Doris Dixon	What were the differences between the Colored section and the rest of the hospital?	29:16
Daisy Thomas Livingston	None, just that this was where you are. There wasn't any, because you were operated on in the same operating room and your food or everybody's food came out the same kitchen. But it wasn't any, it was just like the theater, you could see the same picture but you just sitting here and then they are sitting over on the other side of the partition. Just separation, that was the difference. We were separated, mm-hmm.	29:20
Doris Dixon	Were there any differences, say, in supplies or provisions, or?	29:53
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, no, no. They had the same food and whatever and they had the same ACE bandage or the same whatever you needed. Uh-uh, Uh-uh, no difference in that. Medication was the same. All of that was the same.	29:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm, but now there was a difference at the schools. Now when we had a football team and our boys would get the togs that the boys wore from the White high school, then we would get those. And we had a little band and we would get the instruments. And when they got new instruments, we'd get the old instruments. Things like that, now that was a difference.	30:17
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And of course books, in the early days we might not have had. Before the state started giving books, we might not have had the new books like they had. We probably had the books that when they got some new books, we got some old books. Now that was different. The books that we had were different.	30:50
Daisy Thomas Livingston	But we had teachers who even though they weren't making much money, that if there was something they thought we needed to know, they would buy the book and teach it and teach us out of that book on their own. We had really, really dedicated, I call it really good teachers, when we were coming along. When we were coming along. Because they didn't have all that they needed. But they made do with what they had and they were good at it. Mm-hmm.	31:20
Doris Dixon	Were you ever disciplined by any of your teachers?	31:50
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Disappointed?	31:50
Doris Dixon	Disciplined or disappointed?	31:51
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes. Especially Mr. Threadgale. Yes, we were. Yes, we were disciplined. He was our principal and if we were late he would be standing in that door with that switch and as the girls go by, they got it on the legs. You couldn't be late. And of course there was always be a long freight train that would cut us off coming. We couldn't come across. We had to wait until it passed.	31:57
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And of course he said leave home early enough and you wouldn't have to wait on the train. And another thing, he was our father and everything, and he had us to know that our parents were working. They did not have time to come run to school to see about us. When we came to school, we were in his care.	32:29
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And I never will forget, "Gone With the Wind" came to the Paramount Theater, I was in high school. I think it was a dollar a quarter. And that was a lot of money. And all of us got together, boys and girls, because we know we couldn't go at night to see it because it was too long. We were going to have to cut class to go in the daytime.	32:52
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And whatever you had over your fare, you'd pass this out to the next one, so we could all have enough to get the ticket to get in. Or I could say it was 50, I could say it was 75, might have been a hundred of us in the theater. And of course naturally for the Black they had Ms. Helen Wright, was my neighbor and I got to love her once I got married and lived in front of her, I loved her very much. But then I didn't like her too much.	33:23
Daisy Thomas Livingston	But anyway, she was selling the tickets and she sold us a ticket and let us all go up there. We had Ms. Glover, she was the one to see that you was seated and to see that you would be quiet when you got in the theater. She was Black. They let us all go up there. Then they called Mr. Threadgale. (both laugh)	33:56
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And the only way I was saved, I was sitting between two of our football boys. And naturally, we were up in the balcony. The Blacks were up in the balcony and down in the orchestra, I guess you call, that's where the Whites sit. We were up in the balcony and it was way high up here and then way down here as you come through the door behind us.	34:18
Daisy Thomas Livingston	So we were sitting here, and a football player was sitting on the side of me and another was sitting over here and they were big guys. So I could see, we said, "Oh, we can see Threadgale." And he started upstairs and I could see all the children coming down, marching out.	34:39
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And when he came over, got to us down here, he peeped around and the big fellow pulled his cap on his head. He said, "Mister, will you get out of my face? I paid too much money." He said, "Please excuse me, sir." So that made him go to the next row. Now that's how I got to see all of the picture.	34:54
Daisy Thomas Livingston	A few of us got to stay in because he thought we were adults and you couldn't see too good in there, because that movie was going on. But that was the type of principal he was.	35:13
Daisy Thomas Livingston	There was a place where, we used to call it Ozzy Speeds Cafe, sometime we would leave school instead of going home, we might go around to Ozzy Speeds Cafe. Oh, you could look up anytime as Threadgale walk in the door and you have to get out and go home. So now that was the type of principal we had and because we didn't like it then, but I know now it was very good. Very good, very good.	35:26
Doris Dixon	What did you like and dislike about the school?	35:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Home-ec, especially the sewing.	36:03
Doris Dixon	You disliked the sewing?	36:06
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, I couldn't stand that sewing. Oh, I was impatient. I have a F on my record right now for sewing and home-ec. I didn't mind cooking, I like to cook. But other than that, I like school just fine. I like school just fine. I just didn't like sewing, home-ec was boring to me. It's too slow.	36:08
Doris Dixon	What did you like from school?	36:35
Daisy Thomas Livingston	History. I liked history most of all. And I liked the activities. I was a cheerleader and all of that out there. I liked that. The football games and stuff. I liked that. I could tolerate English and the rest of the stuff. But I really did like history.	36:37
Doris Dixon	Now I just wonder, were you still being taught Black history, or about—	36:58
Daisy Thomas Livingston	We were taught about everything. But our teachers taught us mostly about Black history with their own books or their own knowledge. And with the Bible. Mm-hmm, and with the Bible.	37:05
Doris Dixon	I'm going to ask you a few more questions about Buckeye.	37:20
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm.	37:21
Doris Dixon	What was most important to the people of that community?	37:41
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I guess the most important thing was them trying to make enough money to feed the children. Because there were 8, 10, 12, there were a lot of children in the family. And I guess that might have been one of the most important thing was trying to feed and clothe the children and keep them in school and get them off to school. And then they liked church. They would go to church. They liked church. Church was important to them. Church.	37:50
Doris Dixon	Did you like going to church?	38:26
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes. I liked going to church, until I was about eighth grade. And then we went to the Baptist Church. And I had a teacher named Ms. Brooks. And Ms. Brooks, she played music too, she was a good pianist. And she would teach us the Sunday school lesson on a Friday. And this particular Friday she taught us the Sunday school lesson. And when I went to church on a Sunday and when the superintendent asked us to explain the lesson, and then I explained it how Ms. Brooks had taught us. And it was really John speaking and the superintendent said before the whole thing, "No, no, no. That was Jesus speaking. It wasn't under John. That was Jesus."	38:33
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And so when I went back and I told Ms. Brooks and we went over it again and then he was wrong. And I didn't like Sunday school no more. I told my mama that I just could not go to somebody who didn't know as much as I did. So then I went to the Methodist Church and there was a difference. There was a difference.	39:25
Doris Dixon	What was the difference?	39:49
Daisy Thomas Livingston	The difference was that they understood, the teachers understood the lesson as Ms. Brooks was teaching it to us every Friday, I didn't have any problem. I guess they had more education. I'll put it like that. Mm-hmm.	39:52
Doris Dixon	And what was the difference between the church services then and those today? Or is there a difference?	40:09
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, in some churches there are, because I remember when mom let me stay at church all day. But now I have friends who, I'm Catholic now, but I have friends who go to the Baptist Church and all, they might be gone two hours or hour and a half. They don't stay all day anymore. I remember my mama let me—The people used to stay at church all day long and then they'd go back later in the evening and stay until late at night. But they don't do that anymore. They don't do that anymore.	40:15
Doris Dixon	Okay, and when you worked, did you have much patience for that?	40:45
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Uh-uh. I did not have, uh-uh. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. It was too long for me. I thought it was just too long and repetitious too.	40:49
Doris Dixon	What did you know about the NAACP? I guess when you were young, I guess, and you were older?	41:25
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I knew that it was a good organization because there was a chapter here in Greenwood and Reverend Lloyd Red and Mr. Lewis Golden, they were heading up the NAACP. And they would have meetings and they would go downtown and talk to the officials about things that needed to be done in the neighborhood. Maybe the streets need paving or the sidewalk need something or whatever. I know they were always down there trying to do better things for the community. And Mr. Lloyd Red was a Boy Scout leader. And I think, I'm not sure, because I believe he got money from the National Boy Scout thing, and wherever it was, they were good community leaders that were in the NAACP.	41:34
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And I don't remember them ever having a case where they needed a lawyer from, but I know they talked about that they could get lawyers if they needed them from the NAACP. So yeah, there was a great following of the NAACP when I was in high school and when I first got married.	42:42
Doris Dixon	This was in the '40s?	43:08
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, that's right. That is right in the '40s and the '50s. That's right. Sure was in the '40s. Late '40s, '45, -6, -7 or like that, mm-hmm. Yeah, had a good membership for the NAACP, the adults, mm-hmm. I joined NAACP, my husband and I, and was in there until Mr. Lewis Golden died. And it went down a while and I think it's going now. Attorney Willie Perkins, I think is heading it up now. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.	43:09
Doris Dixon	You were born '25, '26?	43:52
Daisy Thomas Livingston	'26.	43:52
Doris Dixon	Do you have any memories of the Depression now?	43:52
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, I remember Herbert Hoover when he was in there as a president. And I remember that there were people traveling from place to place. Sometimes they would ride on the freight trains and sometimes they would be walking and they would be looking for jobs or looking for food during that time. And then I remember when Roosevelt, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, was elected president. And I remember I had friends, young men, that I knew who went to what they call a CC camp. And I remember the older men working on the roads and they called it the WPA. And I remember times getting better because there was money coming in into the community. And with the men and boys working in these camps and on WPA that they would go—That put more jobs for the other people. They might would leave the cafe and maybe somebody else could go in there.	44:04
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And I remember times getting better in our neighborhood, in our community during that time. I remember that. And of course, World War II made things even better, because the fellows, a lot of them, they went to the service and then the wives would get a check and they got paid. And then after that there was a provision made where the GIs could go to school. And I remember a lot of the fellows coming back, I know they are teachers and principals now. They retired and whatnot. They came back to school and there, whatever they needed was paid by the GI bill. And that's where in the South where all the educators—	45:20

Daisy Thomas Livingston	—during that time. So yes, uh-huh. And that was, to me, that was really the turning point for things to get better.	0:01
Doris Dixon	So as far as your own life was concerned, did you see change in your family's life, and your parents? What happened?	0:11
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm. My husband, he was 18 and he went into the Navy. And my brother, he went into the Army.	0:18
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And then there were jobs, better jobs, for the women and things because sometime the women took over the jobs that the men might have had. I remember some ladies going into the Buckeye to do jobs, I don't know what they did, because a lot of the men were gone. They had been drafted.	0:30
Daisy Thomas Livingston	So yeah, things got better then because my mama was still a housekeeper because she was a very good housekeeper and the people she worked for was rich. So she was just paid more because they didn't want her to go.	0:57
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I don't know where they thought she was going, but they didn't want her to go any place and she was paid more. So things were just better all around, mm-hmm. Yeah, things were better all around. Things were better.	1:10
Doris Dixon	Now, do you remember your mother working for these people?	1:22
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Mm-hmm.	1:22
Doris Dixon	Most of the same people who were [indistinct 00:01:27]	1:25
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Mm-hmm. Yeah.	1:27
Doris Dixon	Did you ever have occasion to go to work with her?	1:31
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yes, yes, I would go to the house and if she had things she wanted us to come and get, sometime the lady would go to the grocery store and all and she would bring things back for the children.	1:34
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And if my mother had to stay on and she thought we needed it, she would call maybe the White people in front of us who have a phone and they would come call us either—Sometimes you would call across the field. They'd be standing out there calling and they would say, "Lola said come to the house." And then we would go and get what she wanted. And sometimes we would go and help her.	1:49
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I would, because I was the oldest. And I would go most of the time, but not often. Not often. Mm-hmm. Yes, I knew them. I knew them. I knew them well. Mm-hmm.	2:14
Doris Dixon	Did your mother ever tell you any of her experiences working in private homes, what she saw or went through?	2:26
Daisy Thomas Livingston	No, not really. Not really. Not really. Not really. Not really, because she would do every—She cooked, she cleaned, she was just a housekeeper. Because the lady was a bridge player and she would be gone most of the times. My mama even planned the meals and would buy the grocery a lot of times. So she was just—The lady would be gone and all. Her husband was a doctor.	2:42
Doris Dixon	A few more questions. I want to ask you more questions about what it was like to be a woman, a Black woman, in that time period. What kind of things were you told about how you were supposed to conduct yourself, how you were supposed behave I guess to get along?	3:09
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well, I would guess the same thing you would tell your daughter today, that we want them to get an education and no sex before marriage and all of those things we were told. And we were told about, we were told. Yeah, we were told. I would say the same thing that you would tell your daughter today they told us then.	3:37
Doris Dixon	So if someone were to say to you, "Behave like a young lady," what would that mean?	4:06
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well, now, if we were in church it would mean not sitting up there talking out or chewing gum or eating or something like that. And I guess if we were in a room with adults, it would mean not keeping up a lot of noise where they couldn't hear talk, what they were saying. I guess just common courtesy. It is awful, I guess, to say stay in a child's place, I presume.	4:13
Doris Dixon	What were the main associations, organizations or other activities that Black women were involved in?	4:48
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Black women had sewing clubs and they had just plain social clubs.	5:04
Daisy Thomas Livingston	They had friends where they would go out. They might go to cafes and they might go to dances. Because in those days, every big band you could name traveled through the South and all the best blues singers came from the South. So they would go from town to town. And if you liked the cafes and you liked the music and whatnot, you'll probably go there.	5:15
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And the church would always have socials and plays that sometime they would write their own play and what they call Tom Thumb weddings because they'd make that up. Maybe two little fellas get married or something like that.	5:52
Daisy Thomas Livingston	So there was all kind of entertainments. And some of them played cards. They'd like to play cards. If they liked to play cards they would play cards. So there were all kinds of entertainment for them.	6:13
Doris Dixon	What kinds of things was your mother involved in?	6:30
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Clubs, clubs. She wasn't much for cafes and things, but clubs and the church clubs. And she sang in the choir, things like that.	6:34
Doris Dixon	Do you remember the names of the clubs that she used to participate in?	6:50
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Yeah, I think one was called the Young Matrons Club and one was the Eastern Star and then the choir. I think them about the only two clubs I can remember that she belonged to. She went to choir practice and she went to those clubs and things and that's about all. That's about all. She'd visit her friends but that's about all. Because, see, they worked every day. She might not have but one day off and that would be Sunday. And sometimes she wouldn't have Sunday off if the lady was having a lot of people in or had guests or something she might not even have Sunday off. So that's about all. But there were ladies who partied a lot and had a lot of fun.	6:54
Doris Dixon	What about you? What kinds of things did you do?	8:00
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, I was interested in everything, dancing. And we had a club we called the Les Elites and, oh, it was about 20 of us. And we would go to big bands in [indistinct 00:08:18], Buddy Johnson. If the Duke would be somewhere close like Jackson or Memphis, we'd all try to get together and go. And church clubs and things like that.	8:00
Doris Dixon	Were you involved in any volunteer associations, any civic clubs?	8:34
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Oh, the only civic club that I was at was later on when I was a volunteer. And I was a volunteer for the Golden Age. I was a candystriper for The Golden Age Nursing Home and volunteer my services for that.	8:48
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And I haven't been too long stopped doing that. Just really when my husband retired and wasn't too well then I stopped doing that. And we belonged to the NAACP a while and we had a Chamber of Commerce when I was about 19 or 20. And it lasted for maybe about five years, not long. And that's just about all I remember.	9:12
Doris Dixon	And did you and your husband have children?	9:46
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Five daughters.	9:51
Doris Dixon	And what kind of values did try and instill in your children?	9:55
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well, mostly that the first thing was I wanted them to go to school and I wanted them to work hard. And I told them that if one would always try to reach back to help the other one if they could. And I'm happy to say that I have seen them do that.	10:00
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Now, that's one of my daughters right there, right there. She is a Commissioner of Health and Human Services, New York City. She works for Mayor Giuliani. She was in Denver at the same job, but two years ago when Giuliani won the mayorship of New York, they put out a search and she was one of them. She was here at home and they called her to come for an interview and she went and she got the job. That's my second daughter.	10:36
Daisy Thomas Livingston	My oldest daughter is a nurse at John Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland. She's been there over 25 years. My third daughter, Rhonda, she lives here with us. She never left home, but she has two boys.	11:10
Daisy Thomas Livingston	One boy is a captain in the Air Force. He went to Mississippi State University and he has a couple of master's and he's working on his PhD but he's still in the Air Force. You see, he's getting everything he can before he get out. The other son graduated from Morehouse College two years ago.	11:27
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And my fourth daughter lives in Denver, Colorado. She has a daughter and a son. Now, she became pregnant when she was going to college because she was out there with this daughter. And when the baby was born, she brought the baby home, her name is Makiba, to stay with us until she could finish college. That's the fourth daughter. And when she got ready for a job and came for her, Makiba wouldn't stay so we kept her.	11:46
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Now, she finished college but two years ago. One year ago, because she been up to Ole Miss or Mississippi State. She's working on a master's in social service. So she went to Mississippi State last year. And she'll be home soon, I hope next week, she's visiting her mama in Denver, because school starts on the 18th.	12:19
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And then my fifth daughter, she lives in Peoria, Illinois. She graduated from Valley. She works in a home where there are people. They got houses where people—She's a social service person there, but she's head of that house in Peoria, Illinois. And so that's all of my children. Those are my daughters.	12:38
Doris Dixon	What were the differences in the educational opportunities that your daughters had versus what you had?	13:02
Daisy Thomas Livingston	Well, they could get scholarships and things or go to college if—See, during my day, if you got a scholarship it was very little and parents had to pay mostly. But they all had good scholarships so that was one difference. They were smart enough and keep the grades up.	13:11
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And a grandson, but now he got plenty of money. (laughs) He became a mason or Omega, and this and that and the other. And he didn't have no job so I guess it was from all the grants and whatever. He knew how to get the money.	13:33
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And Makiba is going, getting her master's now at Ole Miss and she's not paying anything. So that's one great difference.	13:51
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I'm sure it's going change soon because of the people who don't want Affirmative Action and all of that. I'm sure all of that's going to change. But right now, it's no problem.	13:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And I hope it doesn't get to be like it was when we—There was so many just couldn't go. They had to work. So I sincerely hope it don't get to be like that anymore. But my feeling is that too many Black children and people are getting an education, higher education, now. And my feeling is that the conservatives feel like it's time to kind of cut it down, "I don't want you out there in competition for the jobs."	14:14
Doris Dixon	What was the difference between your education and your parent's education?	14:53
Daisy Thomas Livingston	I went to school longer than my mother did. I went to school longer than she did. I went to school longer than she did. But I think the ones who did in those days who did get some education, now I don't know how they did it, but I think a lot was packed into the few years that they might have gone. Because my grandma was very smart, was a very smart person. And we learned a lot of history and she kept up with what was going on.	14:59
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And she lived long enough to enjoy television and everything. And Jackie Robinson was her favorite, but she kept up with everything that was going on. So I think what they got was very good. Whoever taught them, taught them everything. And in those days, that might not be but one person doing the teaching, just one person.	15:36
Doris Dixon	One final question. When you think back on your life in Greenwood and the people that have had an impact either on you or the community or both, who do you think should be remembered? Who stands out in your mind as kind of being important to you?	16:08
Daisy Thomas Livingston	A teacher, Miss Brooks I told you about, she stands out as teaching beyond the textbook, in my mind, when I was young. I think about her.	16:33
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And as an adult, I would think a great impact on the community which made me proud was when President White, JH White, came and started Mississippi Valley State. Because I saw so many old teachers and things go back to get a degree because at the time many of them was working without a degree.	16:51
Daisy Thomas Livingston	And then the next thing, Father Nathaniel Machesky came to the Delta and opened up—They brought the Catholic school, St. Francis Center. And St. Francis Center had everything going on in it, typing classes, Girl Scouts, boy, you name it. Everything was going on in it. And they brought in nurses. And pharmaceutical companies would send medication and there was a doctor in town, he's still living, that could prescribe the medication because he had a license and the medicine was given to the elderly or those who need it.	17:25
Daisy Thomas Livingston	So now those things I look back on and it makes me proud and I think had a great impact on the community. And of course the boycott, we call it the Greenwood Movement. That opened up jobs, clerks in stores downtown and in the banks and things. Now, that had a—And that started from St. Francis Center and Father Nathaniel. So now I think those are the things.	18:11
Doris Dixon	Thank you.	18:44
Daisy Thomas Livingston	You certainly welcome.	18:49

Item Info

Title:

Daisy Livingston interview recording, 1995 August 03

Date:

August 3, 1995

Creator:

Livingston, Daisy Thomas

Contributor:

Dixon, Doris

Description:

Name: Daisy Thomas Livingston; Date of birth: 1926-03-25; Place of birth: Greenwood, MS; Occupation(s): health care worker; nurse; Residence: Greenwood, MS
Informant ID: 1148; Interviewed by: Doris Dixon.

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 480
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Daisy Livingston interview recording, 1995 August 03

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1. Daisy Livingston administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Daisy Livingston interview recording, 1995 August 03

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