Gerson Stroud (primary interviewee) and Daisy Stroud interview recording, 1993 June 09
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| Chris Stewart | I'd like to ask you a couple of questions about Charlotte in general and specifically about segregation in Charlotte. Do you recall, either as children or as adults, living in Charlotte, seeing Jim Crow signs, and if you did, where? | 0:02 |
| Gerson Stroud | Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, indeed. You heard me say that I would walk from my house when I went to Duke Power Company on South Church Street. In the lobby of Duke Power Company, you'd find two water fountains; one that was White, and the one, it was dark brown, one for White and one for colored. In every building, every facility that you would go into downtown, that's here in Charlotte, you would—they would have White restrooms everywhere. | 0:21 |
| Gerson Stroud | In many instances, there were no restrooms for Blacks at all, but where they did have them, they would have signs pointing to the basement. And they would have colored restrooms down at the southern railway station; that was the most segregated place that you might find anywhere. They had two waiting rooms with a fence in between colored, White. Where you would purchase your tickets, colored, White. Queen City Trailways bus station, that same way. The same way. | 1:15 |
| Chris Stewart | You mentioned the train station and the bus station. Did either of you travel when you were—during this period? And can you talk a little bit about what it was like? I'm saying travel in the South. | 2:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | You go ahead. And if I missed any of the places, you tell her about that, then I'll tell you about my experiences traveling. | 2:25 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Well, the one experience that we had when we went over our honeymoon, we traveled in the Jim Crow car, and it was during the time of the war, so we sat on suitcases. We went to Virginia and we—on the train, and it stopped at every, about every, what do you call, every village. So it took about all—we left there probably about— | 2:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | We left Charlotte about eleven at night, and we got there— | 3:01 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | —we got there way up in the morning. Over in the morning, and we sat there and there were plenty of seats in the other coaches. | 3:04 |
| Gerson Stroud | In the coaches reserved for Whites. | 3:15 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | For Whites. Plenty seats. But we were all packed. It's a wonder if it had had an emergency, nobody could have gotten out because we had every available space taken, and we were seated on suitcases, and we rode that way all the way there. And that was on our honeymoon. And during our high school, when you ride the street car, the street car came right by our house. We were on a page street, and by the way, I lived about four blocks from the square, the center of town. So it was just about downtown, but the street car would stop right in front of our house. If we acted like we wanted to stop near the front, then we were directed. "No, go to the back." We have to always sit in the back and eat. We would get on there, and even though the back would be filled, the people standing up, and there would be seats all in the front. Then they would still direct you to the back of the bus. | 3:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you ever see or hear about instances where people challenged the signs or challenged the— | 4:30 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Well, I didn't hear so much challenge, but I had quite a few friends who were of the color that they could sit there that would sit there. | 4:41 |
| Chris Stewart | So they passed. | 4:52 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Yes. I had quite a few friends that would do that, would sit up near the front. But I don't have any recollection of anyone who said, "I'm going to sit up there anyhow." I don't have any recollection. | 4:53 |
| Chris Stewart | When your friends would do that, would they do that when they were alone? | 5:15 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | If they get on there, they would just go sit up there, and we would be back there. And, I guess, they would be just depending on us not to say anything. Just depending on us not to say anything. And they'd go to the movies. | 5:23 |
| Chris Stewart | What theaters? | 5:44 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Carolina Theater. They would go there, and they'd walk right by. And so they got to see good movies, got to sit because of the color that they were. They used to have plays at the Carolina Theater. Black people couldn't come at all, but one play came called Green Pastures. But when it came to the Carolina Theater, I don't know whether they put it in the paper, but they told the Black people to come to the Carolina Theater, and that was just going to—I mean, we can go to the Carolina Theater. So my mother liked things like that, and so my mother and her friends dressed up. They had on their long gowns, and they had to go up the fire escape. That's where they got there. They had to go up the fire escape to see the play. That's the truth. That's true. Okay. You were talking about something? | 5:45 |
| Gerson Stroud | Now, you talking about the trains. All of the southern trains were segregated. All of them had a coach next to the engine where the Black people were located. And of course you know, the engines were steamed, and all of that Black smoke would come right into the windows of this coach where the Black people were seated. And all of these cars had dining cars. For a long time, Black people could not go back to the dining car. | 6:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | The only food that they could get in that coach was the food that the dining car waiters would come up—they would have a coffee pot and a sandwich tray, and you could buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee from the waiter that was selling to the Blacks on this segregated car. When they decided that Blacks could go to the dining car to eat, they also made the ruling that anytime a Black person came to the dining car, they would have one seat on this side and one seat on this side, and they would have shades. And they would pull the shades to separate the Blacks from the Whites in the dining car. And those are facts. | 7:52 |
| Chris Stewart | And did you travel on trains like those? | 8:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | Not only did I travel, but the few days that I had before I went to surveys, [phone ringing] I didn't have anything to do. And I wanted to work, and I worked Southern Railway Company. I was one of those waiters. So I am telling you what I actually experienced. | 9:01 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Hey, [indistinct 00:09:24]. I'm doing good. | 9:21 |
| Chris Stewart | When was this Mr. Stroud? | 9:21 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | [indistinct 00:09:28]. | 9:21 |
| Gerson Stroud | In 1942. In 1942. The summer of 1942. | 9:32 |
| Chris Stewart | This is along the same lines. Can you tell me if there were times when people made you feel like a second-class citizen? | 9:38 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Oh, my goodness. | 9:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I don't think I can tell you, but there was an inner feeling all the time that you were a second class citizen. | 9:53 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Right. And we don't have any [indistinct 00:10:10]. | 10:09 |
| Gerson Stroud | Because you were deprived of so many of the things that— | 10:10 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Oh, that's wonderful. That is wonderful. What about, [indistinct 00:10:16]? Is he doing good? | 10:15 |
| Gerson Stroud | —as a Black person, you were deprived of so many things that White people had that you knew that you were a second class citizen. | 10:16 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Right. And she still there? | 10:34 |
| Gerson Stroud | You knew that. Yeah. She knew that. | 10:35 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | And I know her man is there. Right. | 10:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk to me a little bit about some of the organizations that you were involved with as an adult, as a married, adult educator? What kinds of organizations did you get involved? | 10:39 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | [indistinct 00:10:55]. | 10:54 |
| Gerson Stroud | Are you speaking about professional organizations? | 10:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Professional, political, civic. | 10:55 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | That is really good. | 10:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well— | 10:57 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Yeah. We've been doing real good, really good. Keeping busy. | 10:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | — Professional. Professional organizations with which I was affiliated, or just to leisure. Almost every professional organization that you can mention that I was a member of the National Association of Secondary School Principals, the Association of Supervision and Curriculum Development, North Carolina Teachers Association, North Carolina Principals Association, North Carolina Administrators Association, Phi Delta Kappa Professional Organization. | 10:58 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | From a neighbor across the street. | 11:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | Oh, gosh. | 11:57 |
| Chris Stewart | What about civic and community organizations? | 12:00 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Yeah, she just dropped something in the mail. I don't know. I guess that was something in it because that connection. Right. He will probably call you back. I guess tonight, they're going to the game. Okay, sometime other than [indistinct 00:12:23]. I'll tell him to call you. All right. | 12:00 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was a member of American Red Cross. Are you speaking about currently or in the prior years? | 12:26 |
| Chris Stewart | In the past. | 12:32 |
| Gerson Stroud | In the past, yes. Well, in the past, I was a member of the American Red Cross. I was a member of the American Red Cross. I was a member of the board of directors. I was co-chair of the Negro campaign for the March of Dimes. It was divided White and Black, but I was co-chair once for the March of Dimes. I was on the board for Open Door Incorporated. | 12:33 |
| Chris Stewart | What is that? | 13:26 |
| Gerson Stroud | That's a drug affiliated organization. I was— | 13:27 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like you were something of a, well, I mean, obviously, as a principal, you were a community leader in your community in various kinds of ways. | 13:49 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. Yes. There are others. I just can't just immediately think about them. | 13:59 |
| Chris Stewart | We were talking about organizations. | 14:09 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Oh, okay. | 14:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Organizations that Dr. Stroud was involved with. Can you share any organizations that you were involved with during this period? | 14:12 |
| Gerson Stroud | During segregation period. | 14:21 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | No, I think most of mine have been since that time. When I was raising my children, I was just at home. And when I went out to work, I didn't—after I retired, that's when I got involved in organizations, after I retired. I was a late bloomer. [laughs] | 14:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Better late than never. Well, do either of you, I'll ask both of you, do either of you have anything that you'd like us to know about that you'd like to be included on this interview that I haven't asked you about? | 14:50 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, you only went, I think you said, until sixty. | 15:11 |
| Chris Stewart | About that. Yeah. | 15:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | And you've talked about the school, and you talked about— | 15:24 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Excuse me just a minute. Do you have another interview this afternoon? | 15:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah, we do at four. | 15:32 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Oh, excuse me. I just didn't want you to be—I know how it is. I didn't want to hold you up. | 15:34 |
| Chris Stewart | No, we've got a lot of time left. Well, are you saying that you'd like to talk a little bit about the integration of the schools? | 15:46 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. I would like to. Have you really had an opportunity to study the structure of all the location of schools in Charlotte-Mecklenburg? | 15:52 |
| Chris Stewart | We got some information. We did some archival research on the different schools, but I'll be really frank with you and say that we haven't done nearly, and in fact, we're depending a lot on the people that we talk to talk about that. I would be really interested in hearing from you about integration, especially since you were a school principal and so active in— | 16:22 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. Let me just go back with you then to the construction of York Road Junior High School. York Road was completed in 1955, but it was built at that time to take the overflow of Black students from the areas from which Black students come to keep those students from having to attend the White schools that they would be passing in order to get to other schools.York Road was constructed on Bank Street, which is off the beaten path. | 16:49 |
| Gerson Stroud | And they called it York Road because it was designated that way so that the people who were building the school would know exactly how to find it. But it was really located at 3114 Bank Street, which is off of the main beaten path. It has never had a desirable interest. | 18:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | They first built the two housing projects there, the Brook Hill Village Housing Project, which is a low rent housing project that was built by Spangler developers. And then they had Southside Homes, which was a public housing project that was built by the city. And to accommodate those children, they built the Marie G. Davis Elementary School. And then, to the rear of that, as they were beginning to grow their York Road Junior High School was constructed. | 18:29 |
| Gerson Stroud | As the population increased and the population of Black students increased, they added a grade per year until it became a junior senior high school. And it was then a junior senior high school until 1966. And in 1966, it reverted to a junior high school, but the name changed to Kennedy Junior High School. | 19:14 |
| Gerson Stroud | But it was at that time when the school board adopted a policy that there would be no more schools built in a predominantly Black community. Just to the rear of where Kennedy Junior High School is located, the school board had purchased all of that property, all back up on that hill there. That's where they were going to build the York Road Senior High School. But because they could no longer justify building an all Black high school, they took the plans that were originally far York Road High School and constructed Olympic High School out where Olympic High School is located now. | 19:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | I believe it was in 1966 when they had freedom of choice as a plan for integrating the schools. And that first year, we had approximately a hundred, maybe 150 White children assigned to York Road, but they also had freedom of choice. And on the first day of school, they would have to report to York Road, but they could exercise freedom of choice and leave. And at that time, of all the students who were assigned, only one White child remained. | 20:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Now were you principal? | 21:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was principal. I was principal at York Road from the day of its inception until—for fourteen consecutive years. And then I left there in '69, I believe it was. | 21:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Had the school integrated more up until then? | 22:02 |
| Gerson Stroud | No, no. | 22:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Oh, okay. Sure. | 22:05 |
| Gerson Stroud | Only integrated the faculty. The faculty was integrated. Yes. But I was transferred to West Charlotte Senior High School. And the first year that I was at West Charlotte Senior High School, Second Ward High School was closed. It was closed, and they had recently planned to build a metro Atlanta vocational center there. But because of this new policy, they canceled that. And then, they granted the students at Second Ward the privilege of attending any high school in Charlotte, including West Charlotte. | 22:07 |
| Gerson Stroud | West Charlotte was already crowded. But the bulk of those students opted to come to West Charlotte. And that year, it looked like West Charlotte as well as a trailer city, because these accommodations were placed there to accommodate the students from Second Ward. That year, we had two schools within a school were Charlotte and Second Ward, and just about the end of the school year, there was an explosion between the two groups. | 23:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Between the West Charlotte students and the Second Ward students. | 23:58 |
| Gerson Stroud | That's correct. Yes. That is correct. | 24:01 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you mean by an explosion? | 24:04 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, all year, there had been conflict between the students from the two schools. The students from Second Ward had been promised equal entry into the various organizations and participation. That whatever they did at Second Ward, they could do the same thing at West Charlotte. This created quite a problem because the coaches were integrated with the coaches from West Charlotte, all of the bulk of the teaching staff was brought out there. So it was just like two separate schools within one facility. And to bring those two together in one year and try to unify them, it was a most difficult task. | 24:12 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the incident that led to—was there a specific incident? And I mean, I know it sounds like you said that it was building up. | 25:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | Incidents that had been building up all year. The students in the Honor Society from Second Ward felt that their criteria should be sufficient to enter into the Honor Society at West Charlotte; the West Charlotte students did not feel this way. The same was true with most clubs and organizations. The same was true with the athletic teams. They could not have really a unified organization because of the differences in philosophy and the differences in school spirit. The Second Ward people still felt that they could use whatever they had for Second Ward, and West Charlotte felt that everything should be for West Charlotte. And there was always conflict all during the year, and it just reached a boiling point. | 25:19 |
| Chris Stewart | What happened? | 26:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, they were out for lunch, and they just all started fighting. And we just had to close school. | 26:25 |
| Chris Stewart | You closed school? | 26:32 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 26:34 |
| Chris Stewart | How long did the school stay closed? | 26:35 |
| Gerson Stroud | I mean, they just closed it for that day. Yes. And they came back the next day. But a school was just about ready to close, and it was very tense for the remaining few days that we were there. And of course, that ended that. And they had the new assignment plan that was completed. They called it the Finger Plan that was completed after that. And with the new Finger Plan, West Charlotte was the pivotal school in the total desegregation plan that was created at that time. | 26:36 |
| Gerson Stroud | And West Charlotte had had a faculty of more than a hundred faculty members, Black and a student body of approximately sixteen hundred, seventeen hundred. And it was a real going senior high school. If it wasn't, it was next to the top one in the city. But when they drew the plans, the assignment plans, all of the White children that were assigned to West Charlotte came from the areas where you would find the least potential for integration. | 27:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Well, what do you mean by that? Well, what do you mean by the least potential for integration? | 28:29 |
| Gerson Stroud | The areas from which they came were the areas that had projected the most resistance towards integration. And they were assigned to ride the buses to come to West Charlotte, and they vowed not to come. And on the day the school offered, the media from every major network in America was there at West Charlotte. And those buses rolled in from all of the areas from which they were assigned. But all of them were empty properly, with the exception of, I'll say, about seven students. | 28:30 |
| Gerson Stroud | And this is what we dealt with, and we dealt with this for several days, but the school board was strict in its statement that they weren't going to permit those students to go elsewhere. And after about a month, they start coming back in, coming back in. And we had two or three rides, conflicts between the Black and White students. But in the end, those students and those parents came together. And just about the end of the school year, it turned out to be as harmonious as you could expect for the period of time that they had been there. | 29:19 |
| Chris Stewart | What kinds of things did you and your teachers do to the teachers who worked with you and under you? What kinds of things did you do to, I want to say, to smooth out the edges to try and get through what sounds like a very tense year? Did you develop any specific strategies for trying to get students and parents? | 30:21 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, we had workshops. | 30:52 |
| Chris Stewart | What were the workshops? | 30:54 |
| Gerson Stroud | We had, at St. Augustine College in Raleigh, they had a desegregation. They didn't call it department, but they had the specialist there. They came to West Charlotte specifically to work with the staff and selected students and parents. This was prior to school opening. And they did the same thing for J.T. Williams Junior High because both of us were in the same setup. And we did this in advance of schools, and they outlined the things that should be covered. And we had handbooks and workbooks and spent time working on this. | 30:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | And then [coughs] during the school year, we did the same thing. We did the same thing. Well, that was two of the years. Two of the years were something. First two years. For three consecutive years, we had three separate assignment plans. We did not have the same students at West Charlotte the first three years. Each year, the assignment plan changed, and we had a different group of students— | 31:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Of White students that were bused in? | 32:36 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 32:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, my goodness. | 32:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. Yes. | 32:37 |
| Chris Stewart | So there was no attempt even made to try and create an integrated student population. | 32:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | Right. That's when the Citizens Committee got together and decided that they wanted to try a plan to see if they couldn't work it out themselves rather than to have the professionals come in to work out different assignment plans. And that's when the student committee came and worked out a plan of assignment that the school board used from that time up until Dr. Murphy came here two years ago. And that plan, father time seemingly worked well. I left West Charlotte in 1974 and went to the education center as desegregation specialist. | 32:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Because of your experience during this process. | 33:49 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. That as well as the chairman. Well, for two years, or maybe three years, they had tried to get me to leave West Charlotte as principal. And they offered me any high school in Charlotte if I would make a lateral change. | 33:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Why? | 34:17 |
| Gerson Stroud | Because they said that West Charlotte would never be an integrated school as long as it had a Black principal and as long as it had a Black principal and Black heads of departments. Well, we had Black heads, hated departments because that first year, I had to transfer all of the Black faculty, with the exception of nineteen. And they told me that those nineteen, that they would suggest that they be head of departments, because it's the only way that we could get started and have a school. And that we had to have Black heads of department. | 34:19 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was a principal, we had two Black assistant principals, and the secretaries in the office were Black. They didn't transfer any of those. And nobody else was brought in. Therefore, the office was Black, the department heads were Black, and they can still considered us a Black school. As we continued to work with staff, we tried to make the changes, but we were always criticized. We had the football head coach, and we did our utmost to get assistant White coaches for football. We did our utmost, and we were, but at that beginning, it was not easy for them to work together. | 35:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk a little bit—most of the things that we know that we hear about integration as students are Black students having to integrate into White institutions. We don't often read about White students having to integrate into Black institutions. Could you talk a little bit about what you think the difference—you've just mentioned, I think some really crucial differences about departments, department heads, and principles and sort of what that sets up for White parents and White students. Do you think there are any other kinds of differences that both for students and for perhaps faculty? | 36:09 |
| Gerson Stroud | Far as Whites are concerned? | 36:56 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm just talking about the process of integration, how it's different if it's Black students going into White institutions or White students going into Black institutions. | 36:58 |
| Gerson Stroud | White parents rebel against coming into Black institutions. And they rebel, first of all, because of the location of Black schools. And when I was talking to you earlier, I told you that it was just a part of the growth of the development of this feeling of a separate but equal that the schools for Blacks be located in Black communities in the cheapest property or locations that they can find that are undesirable. As long as it's only going to be served by Black. I mean it's served. Only Black students are going to come there, that's fine. The Black students and Black parents will go because they know that this is all they're going to have. But when it comes time to integrate the schools, White parents said it—they don't want their children going into places and locations where those Black schools. | 37:09 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Never on the beaten path. | 38:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | Never. Never on the beaten path. | 38:34 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Way back somewhere. | 38:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, way back in the Holland. Now, you also visit those places before you leave. | 38:38 |
| Chris Stewart | In fact, we probably are. We've got there. We've got lots of interviews scheduled, but we're also visiting some of the local schools and institutions as well. | 38:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. And see, as I said, for three years prior to my moving, they tried to offer me propositions to get me to move. But my constituency was as so much opposed to that until I didn't move. And the year that I did move, the superintendent personally came out to see me and said that he had this position; it was opening down at the education center, desegregation specialist, and that I was the real person that was suited for it. | 38:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | And, oh, he painted the most beautiful pictures. He just outlined everything and one, two, three, all that. Of course, my salary would just go on up. And if I were to accept it, if I were to do it, that I would be in a much better position to influence the integration and to keep more accurate accountability than by my staying right there at West Charlotte. Well, I talked with a number of the key persons in Charlotte, and some of them agreed that this was a possibility. | 39:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | And so I then agreed that I would accept a job as a desegregation specialist, and I did accept it. And I was never able to do what I expected I wanted to do. Never did. I had to keep accurate records on the assignment of all students, because this was a part of the court order. I had to do the work that the judge had required it be done to be in compliance with the court order. And that had to do more with statistics than it had to do with personnel and people. And I missed that. I lost that. | 40:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Charlotte was one of few large metropolitan, well, there aren't many large metropolitan areas in North Carolina, that received a court order to desegregate. Right? | 42:01 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Right. | 42:15 |
| Gerson Stroud | That's right. | 42:16 |
| Chris Stewart | So it was great resistance, I guess. | 42:19 |
| Gerson Stroud | That's right. | 42:21 |
| Chris Stewart | I would like to talk to you some more about this. And in fact, what I'd like to do is, if possible, set up a time to come back and talk with you again some more. We have some forms that we need to fill out before we head off to our other interview, and they take about twenty minutes to a half an hour. So we're going to need to go ahead and fill out those forms. But I really would like to talk to you more about this. | 42:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Especially because, I mean, like I said, we've got institutional histories, but we don't have the kinds of stories that you're just telling us about. So perhaps we can go ahead and fill out the family histories, and Bill and I can split up and fill them out individually for you. And then we can arrange a time where I can come back to talk to you, maybe next week sometime. Are you going to be around? | 42:54 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. How long are y'all going to be here? | 43:24 |
| Chris Stewart | We're only here through Friday. | 43:27 |
| Gerson Stroud | Friday. Not this week of next week. Let me just look at my calendar and see. | 43:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Thanks. I'll go ahead and take Mrs. Stroud, if you'd like to talk to Dr. Stroud. | 43:39 |
| Speaker 4 | The ladies will stay together. | 43:48 |
| Chris Stewart | I can pull this chair up. Basically what this is is a family history biographical information to accompany the interview for researchers or teachers who are going to listen to the interview or whatever. This helps give some background information. Basically, it's going to be about you and your family, but it will focus on you for the most part. Okay? Well, we start with your name. | 43:49 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | Okay. Daisy. And my maiden name, Spears. S-P-E-A-R-S. And then Stroud. | 44:22 |
| Chris Stewart | And your current address is? 1822. | 44:37 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | 1822 [indistinct 00:44:42]. | 44:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Charlotte. And your phone number? | 44:42 |
| Daisy Spears Stroud | (704) 392-4753. | 44:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you have a nickname that you were known by when you were— | 45:02 |
| Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:00:02] be asking very similar questions at first anyway. And then, like I said, I'll follow up probably with— Have you always lived here in Charlotte, Mrs. Stroud? | 0:01 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. I was born here, and I've lived here except for short periods of time. This has been home. | 0:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Were your parents born here? | 0:28 |
| Daisy Stroud | No. My father was born out in Cabarrus County, and my mother was born in South Carolina. | 0:31 |
| Chris Stewart | What part of South Carolina? | 0:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | Cash, South Carolina. You ever heard of that, Cash? | 0:45 |
| Chris Stewart | No, I haven't. | 0:45 |
| Daisy Stroud | It's near Cheraw. Ever heard of Cheraw? | 0:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Uh—huh. | 0:45 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, it's near. It's a small place, Cash. It was named for the Colonel Cash, and his whole town was Cash [indistinct 00:01:04]. | 0:52 |
| Chris Stewart | And this was your mother? | 1:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | This was my mother. | 1:06 |
| Chris Stewart | What did your mother's father do? | 1:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | What did my mother's father do? I don't remember too much about my mother's father except she said that he was a— It was sort of like on the order of a sharecropper. They all lived on this place together. My mother was raised on this in Cash, on this— like a plantation for Colonel Cash. And so whatever it was he had, my mother's father was favored because he had what was called not like an ordinary job, so whatever— | 1:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. So we were talking about your mother's father, who you said you didn't remember too much about, but you thought he was a skilled laborer of some sort. What about your mother's mother? | 2:06 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I never knew my mother's mother, but just hearing her talk about it, she was a seamstress. She just sewed. | 2:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she sew for other families who lived in the area? | 2:27 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, in the area. Yes. | 2:31 |
| Chris Stewart | For the Cashes as well? | 2:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, yes. | 2:34 |
| Chris Stewart | How many children did your grandparents have? How many brothers and sisters did your mother have? | 2:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | Let me see. My mother had one sister and one brother. | 2:40 |
| Chris Stewart | And she stayed there until— | 2:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | She stayed there until she went to— After she finished maybe like grade school or whatever, she was sent off to school, and she was sent to Barber—Scotia Seminary. She went there, and after she left there, she went to a nurse training. She was a registered nurse, and she went to a beauty school. She had about five or six different occupations. | 2:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. | 3:26 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 3:27 |
| Chris Stewart | While you were growing up, do you remember her having [indistinct 00:03:32]? | 3:29 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. My mother was— I guess she was a little before her time. She would be what would be called a career woman today. She was not content to stay at home, but what she did, as we grew up, she used whichever occupations that she could do at home and still raise her children. She built a beauty shop on the side, and then so she could watch over us and still do the beauty shop. And then with her nurse training, she would go and nurse in the communities. And she eventually had a beauty college, but she was what would be considered, I guess, very, very well educated. In fact, that's where she met my father. | 3:32 |
| Chris Stewart | And how was that? | 4:25 |
| Daisy Stroud | She met my father. She went to teach in Concord, North Carolina, and while she was there, my father was working on the farm and everything. I had school. You just went to school, not necessarily age—wise, and it so happened that my mother came in as a teacher and my father came in as one of the students in the school. And somehow or another, they fell in love, and so they eventually married. But that's the way they met in Concord. | 4:26 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you know about your father's parents? | 5:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I knew my father's mother. I spent every summer with my father's mother because I was the baby of the family, so I always had to spend the summer in Concord with my— Harrisburg it was, with my father's mother. I didn't know my father's father. | 5:08 |
| Chris Stewart | What did your father's mother do? Did she work? | 5:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | She did not work. She was just— | 5:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she live with your father and mother when they got married or did she have her own house? | 5:42 |
| Daisy Stroud | She had her own house. Yeah. She never lived with us. | 5:46 |
| Chris Stewart | How did she support herself? | 5:50 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, she supported herself through her contributions really of her children, and maybe what she would raise on her farm as such. But she had no work, at least the times that I knew her. I didn't know of any work that she did. | 5:52 |
| Chris Stewart | When you went to visit her when you were a small child, what would you do those summers when you would go to visit your grandmother? | 6:12 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, mostly I would just be very bored because there was no running water, no electricity, and we were up at sunrise, and then with the cows and the pigs and the dogs and whatever. And then we would— Well, I just amused myself by reading. That's all I would do because I had no playmates. I would just be there with my grandmother, and as soon as it would get to be about 6:00, we would have to go to bed and like that. But I always kind of thought it was like a punishment for me to have to stay with her, because my brothers and sisters could stay here in the city and I had to stay in the country. But I had to do it, so that was [indistinct 00:07:10]. | 6:20 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like her house was pretty isolated from— | 7:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | Very, very isolated. No neighbors. We saw no one except on Sunday, when we would go to church, and we'd see people at church. And we walked everywhere. Well, I survived. Yeah. | 7:14 |
| Chris Stewart | So when your parents— they met in Concord, and then they moved here to— | 7:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | No. My father, after— Well, he went away. After she worked there for a while, and he went to New York, I think, and somehow or another, he was quite a businessman. He was a salesman, and he would sell things. He was very good at selling. He first started selling magazines, then he'd sell books, and he eventually got into the field of insurance. And so that was his trade, insurance. | 7:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Did he work here with the Mutual here in insurance? | 8:14 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. He was district manager of the— He eventually got to be vice president of the bank, vice president of Mechanics and Farmers Bank. | 8:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, I see. | 8:33 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. And then also he was— The bank that's up here on Beresford Road, he was district manager of that, and then he got to be vice president of Mechanics and Farmers Bank. | 8:33 |
| Chris Stewart | So you said he went up to New York? | 8:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. And when he went there, he just went there and he took any type job that he could find. And he found that he was good in salesmanship, and that's what he did. And so, as I said, he started with books and magazines, and he got into insurance. He went up there, and so we traveled. The family traveled a lot because he was in insurance. So one of my brothers was born in South Carolina, and then another— My sisters were born maybe Greensboro, and wherever insurance men move. So we finally settled here in Charlotte. | 8:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. So when your parents finally settled here, that's when you were born? | 9:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 9:37 |
| Chris Stewart | You were the smallest child? | 9:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 9:39 |
| Chris Stewart | So prior to that then, they [indistinct 00:09:41]? | 9:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | They moved. Yes. They moved a lot. | 9:41 |
| Chris Stewart | When your father went to New York, did your mother stay in Concord? | 9:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | She was still teaching in Harrisburg. | 9:48 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. | 9:52 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 9:52 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. So she stayed there until he came back? | 9:53 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 9:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she go up to visit him, do you know, or did he come down? | 9:56 |
| Daisy Stroud | He just came back home to his home. That would've been Harrisburg. And then they got married. | 10:00 |
| Chris Stewart | How long— So this was prior to getting married that he was traveling? | 10:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. Yes. | 10:12 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. I see. | 10:12 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. He felt that he needed to get himself prepared before he would marry, so that's when he left. And he had no future there in Harrisburg, so he decided to leave and get himself ready. | 10:12 |
| Chris Stewart | And he left to go to New York to get himself ready— | 10:25 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 10:28 |
| Chris Stewart | — and then came back to— | 10:28 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 10:28 |
| Chris Stewart | — Harrisburg and Charlotte. Did you— | 10:28 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, not Harrisburg and Charlotte. Harrisburg, and then they did their traveling, and then finally Charlotte. | 10:33 |
| Chris Stewart | So was he with the same company when he was traveling around? Do you know? | 10:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean the insurance? | 10:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 10:46 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. Insurance, yes. South Carolina Mutual Life Insurance. Right. He was called Mr. Quarter Million Dollar Man. I think he wrote probably as much insurance as probably an agent, but he was a very good insurance man. | 10:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. Did your mother or your father ever tell you what it was like to live the life of a traveling salesman? It was prior to when you were born, so— | 11:01 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I don't know if— My mother might have said something about— in his travels, because she was in the role of sort like a man going off to war, and the woman just waits. She was in that role. But I think my father felt that he wanted to be able to support a family, and so he used that as a time to go off and get ready. And so they just corresponded. I have several letters that they wrote back. They wrote back and forth. They just corresponded and kept in touch. | 11:16 |
| Chris Stewart | So when your father— Your family came to Charlotte then and settled in Charlotte after having traveled around? | 11:55 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 12:02 |
| Chris Stewart | What neighborhood did your family live in? | 12:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | First Ward. | 12:07 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. Is that where you were— Were you born in [indistinct 00:12:11]? | 12:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, I was born there. Right. First Ward. | 12:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me something about that neighborhood? Do you remember? | 12:14 |
| Daisy Stroud | First Ward? | 12:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 12:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, the neighborhood that we moved in, the home that we moved in, and probably most of the area was formerly a White area. And in fact, maybe one or two Black families would move into it as they would move out, because I remember growing up, we had a block with all Black, but the block that was right above us would be White. So it would be White, and these people had not as yet moved, and these other people had moved. We did get this from a White family. My father and mother bought this house. It was originally a White family. | 12:20 |
| Chris Stewart | This house? | 13:00 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, the house in First Ward. No, not this one. I'm saying this. It was in First Ward. It was a very, very large house. I think we had about 12 rooms. | 13:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh my. Nice. So over what period— Did the neighborhood eventually become an all Black neighborhood? | 13:21 |
| Daisy Stroud | Let's see. It seems like in elementary school it was— I can remember the five White neighbors. But let's see. We moved. Let's see. We moved from there. What happened was my father and mother decided that when they would educate their last child, they would move to a home. So they had five children, so with my being the last— I graduated from college in 1937, and that summer we moved in this area. We left there. But I would say during my high school days— I remember elementary school, there were White people there. But during the high school, I think by that time it was all Black, by the time of high school. | 13:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember— So you lived in that house for all of your— | 14:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | All of my life until— | 14:36 |
| Chris Stewart | You graduated? | 14:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | That's right, until I graduated. | 14:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember your neighbors— | 14:41 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh yes. | 14:44 |
| Chris Stewart | — or your neighborhood? | 14:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 14:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk some of that? | 14:45 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I lived next door to a Methodist parsonage right on the corner that was from AME Zion parsonage. And the ministers would stay— In a Methodist church, you could stay until it was conference time. So I had the advantage of having a lot of playmates because maybe the minister would stay four years, and maybe they wouldn't. But then it was a constant move, so I got to have a lot of playmates. | 14:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | And in our neighborhood, I think everyone on the end of the block that we lived made a fairly good living in this particular block. This was like Seventh Street. I think everybody made a fairly good living in this particular block. The blocks maybe behind us, there was some maybe shotgun houses, maybe on Eighth Street or whatever. But on Seventh Street per se, I think just about everybody made a fairly good living. | 15:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Would you say that most of the people who lived on that Black block were professional people? | 16:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, let's see. If they weren't professional people, they had jobs that made fairly good living. Maybe next door to us, I think the people there were like— This man was a presiding elder in the church, and across the street, this was a barber. And then if we had someone like a maid or whatever, they made a fairly good living. I guess that's the best thing I can say. | 16:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Who were the most important people to you as a child growing up in that neighborhood? Who did you consider to be the most important people in your neighborhood? | 16:54 |
| Daisy Stroud | The most important? | 17:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 17:06 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, are you speaking of important to me or important as regards to the community? | 17:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Both. | 17:17 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay. Well, important as regards to the community probably would be a family called the Tate family, Thad Tate family, and they had— Their house was maybe stone or brick, whatever. Well, I guess someone would say that was the most important family. | 17:18 |
| Chris Stewart | How about to you? | 17:46 |
| Daisy Stroud | To me? | 17:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 17:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I don't know whether I regarded them as so important, but it seems to me, as I think about it, where the grandchildren of the Tates would come, I was very friendly with them. And the relationship that I had with the Tate family might have been different from the relationship I had with the other families. I don't know whether you understand that. | 17:49 |
| Chris Stewart | No, I'm not sure I do. Could you explain it just a little bit? | 18:23 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, if perchance there would be— Well, I'll just say a party— well, I would be invited to the Tates' house. I would be invited, but not necessarily my neighbors, if you understand that. I would. But yet I would be invited to everybody else's party. I would. But maybe on some special occasions, then the only one that the Tates would invite would be me, but not necessarily my friends. They would not be invited. | 18:30 |
| Chris Stewart | During the period that you lived there in— Well, quite a few years. You grew up there— how did the community, how did the neighborhood change? | 19:12 |
| Daisy Stroud | The neighborhood, we could just see changes of the [indistinct 00:19:32] just like I guess society changed. It was just a gradual change. As the older people were dying, maybe their children would not be necessarily the same. We just seemed to be getting far afield, as society did. We just gradually would get far afield from the way that probably it was before, the neighborliness. When I was growing up, it just so happened, I guess because my father was in a position that he was in, then he had— My father had the first car. And I always said he had the car because he had to have a car. They always teased me about it, but anyways— But anyhow, he had it because he needed it for his insurance purposes. | 19:27 |
| Daisy Stroud | So we had the first car, and we had the first refrigerator, and maybe the first washing machine, the only telephone probably for a while. It was a neighbor's telephone. Everybody would come to our house to use the telephone. But the neighborhood was as such that we never locked our doors, and so if anyone wanted to use a telephone, then they would just knock on the door. And we trusted. Everybody was very well— We had no— Nobody broke in anywhere, and everything was just very trusting, and we all supported each other. If anything happened to one of the neighbors, then it was just like happening in our own family. So we were very, very close that way. | 20:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you give a specific example? Do you remember any examples of that kind of neighborliness that you're just thinking about, about ways in which people helped each other? | 21:22 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, one thing I can think about, there was a family across the street who had several daughters, and each daughter had probably had children, but their daughters had to work. And so the neighbors' children that were old enough, maybe beginning high school, would volunteer to babysit with no pay. If someone needed someone, you could just call my mother and say, "I would like Daisy to come over and babysit." Well, there's no thought of pay, anything that needed to be done. And any kind of errands, we were always available to go for errands. All we had to do was just be asked. And so we supported each other. Right. | 21:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you recall for me the greatest joy that you can remember as a child, being a child? What brought you the greatest joy? | 22:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | What brought me the greatest joy? Well, I— | 22:56 |
| Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:23:04] going to get that question? | 23:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | I don't know. I think that one of the things I think about was when I was a child, I wanted a certain kind of baby doll, and I thought I wouldn't get it. But I remember that I got it, and I can just see the doll now. It was a doll that was tall enough, and I thought it was almost as big as I was, but it was a— And another thing that stands out in my mind is I had always gotten baby dolls that were White, and this was a baby doll that stood up high, and it was a Black baby doll. And I think that stands out as one of the highlights of my growing up, when I got that doll, because most of the baby dolls were White, but this one was a Black baby doll. And seems like somebody sent— I don't know whether somebody sent it to me, but whatever. But I'll never forget that. | 23:08 |
| Chris Stewart | What happened to her? | 24:23 |
| Daisy Stroud | To the baby doll? | 24:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 24:25 |
| Daisy Stroud | I remember keeping it, but I don't know. I really don't know what happened to it. See, along the same time that I got the baby doll, Mickey Mouse was fashionable, and I kept that. I had that upstairs. I kept a little tea set. But I don't know what happened to the baby doll. I wish I did have it. | 24:27 |
| Chris Stewart | What about, as a child, can you recall what brought you sadness, what you remember as bringing you sadness as a child? | 24:49 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, as a child, I was sort of like a loner in my family because my mother had— She had my two older sisters. They were together. And then she had two boys, and then she had me. And so I had no connections with my brother. There was a lot of competition or something. And my sisters were too older, so I was always alone. But as far as sadness, I can't remember anything that made me real sad. | 25:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Who made decisions in your family, decisions like household finances or decisions about what schools you would go to or who disciplined— or disciplining the children in the family? | 25:50 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, as far as discipline, my mother attempted to. That was her job and everything, and it was like if I didn't accept it from her, then she would say, "Well, wait until your father comes home," like that. But she was the one with discipline. But my father made most of the decisions, I guess. | 26:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there other people in your neighborhood that disciplined you? | 26:43 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh yes. Everybody would look out for the other ones, and so it was just as bad to have been— someone, my neighbor to have been told something as my mother. So we were very close that way. It was just like mothering all of the children. | 26:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any particular controversies that occurred while you were growing up in that neighborhood, anything that people would talk about that happened at an event or something like that? | 27:13 |
| Daisy Stroud | Any controversies? You mean we would get together, and there would be something wrong, and they would decide to try to do something? Is that what you mean? | 27:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah, something like that, or that just something happened and people would talk about it. I'm thinking of— I guess controversy is not perhaps the right word, or even some big event that would happen that people would talk about. | 27:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | While I was growing up? | 28:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 28:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Not with the neighbors. I can't think of anything. | 28:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. What about gathering places in your neighborhood? Where would you gather to have fun? And I'm thinking now at a younger age. | 28:15 |
| Daisy Stroud | Where would we gather to have fun? | 28:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 28:34 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, it would have to be, if it's not in the church— You're speaking about in the neighborhood per se, not the churches necessarily? | 28:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, yeah. | 28:41 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay. Well, the neighborhoods, we would just use our homes, and with our home being the size that it was, most of the events would happen in my home, most of them. | 28:44 |
| Chris Stewart | And what kinds of things would happen? | 28:54 |
| Daisy Stroud | Happen? | 28:54 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of things would occur there? | 28:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, my mother always felt that she should offer us everything in our homes so that we wouldn't want to go out into the community. So she would allow us to have entertainments in our home, and she would give my sisters an opportunity, and they could invite all of their friends maybe on one night. And then the next time, next night, she would tell my brother he could invite all of his friends and like that. And then I could invite my friends. So the home would be ours, our friends, so we'd have dances at home. | 29:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Dances? | 29:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. My mother would rent a piccolo, and she would rent it for two or three days. And the first night, my sisters would have the house, and the next night my brothers, and then I would have it. So we would have it like seasons of the year, maybe a spring one, and in the fall. Right. | 29:44 |
| Chris Stewart | What kinds of music would you listen to? What kinds of music was that for the piccolo [indistinct 00:30:12]? | 30:07 |
| Daisy Stroud | Big bands. Right. Big bands. | 30:12 |
| Chris Stewart | And what kinds of dances would you dance? | 30:17 |
| Daisy Stroud | Lindy Hop. Right, to the Lindy Hop. | 30:19 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to shift now and talk about school. Where did you go to elementary school? | 30:30 |
| Daisy Stroud | I went to elementary school at First Ward Elementary School. | 30:40 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 30:42 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 30:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your teachers from First Ward? | 30:43 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. I remember going to First Ward School, and when we would go there, they were two first grade teachers. And so what the principal would do is the principal would take the alphabetized list, and she would say the first name would go to this teacher, the second name to that teacher, like that. So we would just stand there and [indistinct 00:31:11] A, teacher would go to this, like B. And I'm praying because I had picked out the teacher that I wanted. I was praying that my name would come up for this particular teacher, and it did. So I got the teacher. Her name was Miss Bamfield. That was [indistinct 00:31:29]. | 30:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | So when I got to school in the first grade— Oh, backing up a little bit, after I was born in Charlotte, my father had an assignment in Durham. That's the home office. So I was born here, and then I think when I was about— I had to be about five years old— my family moved to Durham, home office. So while I was in Durham, my mother enrolled me a in kindergarten in Durham. And then when I got to be six, we moved back to Charlotte. So when I went to first grade at First Ward, everything that I had had at kindergarten in Durham, I knew. So I went from first grade to third grade. | 31:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh my. | 32:21 |
| Daisy Stroud | So I skipped the second grade, and I'm sorry that I did because I left all my friends. So I went from first grade to third grade, skipping. So [indistinct 00:32:35]. | 32:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you have a favorite teacher? | 32:37 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. My favorite teacher was my first grade teacher. | 32:38 |
| Chris Stewart | She was? | 32:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, Ms. Bamfield. | 32:41 |
| Chris Stewart | And why was that? | 32:42 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, she was so gentle, I thought, and she was so pleasant, and then she was very good to look at. She was a very pretty lady. She was pretty, and pretty to me, and she was gentle. But she was just a loving personality, was such that I didn't want go to third grade. I wanted to stay in the first, really. | 32:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she a young woman when you [indistinct 00:33:17]? | 33:15 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, she wasn't young. She may have been young, but to me she— You understand? Right. She may have been young, but I always had the same— She's still living, in fact, really? | 33:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? Wow. | 33:31 |
| Daisy Stroud | So she's got to be a hundred. | 33:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. | 33:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | Isn't she? | 33:38 |
| Gerson Stroud | Who? | 33:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | Ms. Bamfield? | 33:40 |
| Gerson Stroud | Was that— | 33:41 |
| Daisy Stroud | [indistinct 00:33:59] Gibbons. | 34:00 |
| Gerson Stroud | She's dead. | 34:00 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, I thought she's still living. | 34:00 |
| Gerson Stroud | Ms. Gibbons [indistinct 00:34:01]? | 34:00 |
| Daisy Stroud | Mm—hmm. | 34:06 |
| Chris Stewart | In fact, we're arranging to talk to Helen Gibbons. | 34:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | Helen? Who's Helen Gibbons? | 34:08 |
| Chris Stewart | We have arranged to interview a Helen Gibbons. | 34:08 |
| Gerson Stroud | Oh yeah. | 34:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | And then where— | 34:08 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:34:08]. | 34:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | Where does she live? | 34:08 |
| Chris Stewart | She lives in a senior citizen's home of some sort, I believe. I'm not quite sure [indistinct 00:34:10]. | 34:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, that's her name, was Helen. | 34:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:34:13]. | 34:13 |
| Daisy Stroud | Her name was Helen. | 34:13 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm not quite sure which one it is. | 34:13 |
| Daisy Stroud | Is she a old lady? | 34:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. I heard that she was also very sharp. | 34:17 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, that must— Her name was Helen. | 34:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:34:22] | 34:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Very sharp. | 34:22 |
| Daisy Stroud | Her name was Helen. | 34:23 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. | 34:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Maybe. We'll ask her about her first grade class. | 34:23 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:34:30]. | 34:23 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. Her name was Helen, so— | 34:31 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you remember that— What did you learn in— What kind of things were you taught in elementary school? | 34:37 |
| Daisy Stroud | What kinds of things? | 34:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 34:50 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean the subjects or just what —— | 34:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 34:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, it was mostly— We had reading and writing and arithmetic, geography. I don't know whether I had a subject called history. I'm not sure. Maybe. I don't know whether they called it social studies. I'm sure they didn't then, but it would probably be up under social studies. And the physical ed was not in my schedule, so physical ed was just like recess, like play outside, but no scheduled exercise. | 34:52 |
| Chris Stewart | What about things that weren't actually courses? What other kinds of things did you learn in elementary school that do not fall under the heading of classwork? | 35:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, in elementary school, we were taught— It wasn't a course card, but it was like manners. We were taught, but it wasn't just like a scheduled course. But somehow or another, we got the idea of manners and the proper decorum. | 35:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Were boys and girls both taught? | 36:16 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 36:18 |
| Chris Stewart | And can you tell me a little bit about what you were taught is the proper decorum? | 36:19 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, we were taught not to be loud, to be boisterous, and we were taught to respect other persons. And we were taught that we were to be, I guess, mostly obedient. And we were taught— I guess the examples were given, like the right way and the wrong way. "This is the right way to act." Or we were constantly reminded in our behavior, "That's wrong. That is not the right way to act." And it was sort of putting you in a certain mold that would distinguish you from someone that had not had the benefit of an educated person who's getting an education, like, "We are different now. We are in school, and this is the way that you do this," whatever. | 36:26 |
| Chris Stewart | And this just took place in your classes alongside with teaching the subjects? | 37:30 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 37:34 |
| Chris Stewart | That's actually quite interesting, I think that's very, very fascinating. And when did you finish at First Ward? | 37:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean the year? | 37:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 37:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | [indistinct 00:37:53] let me see. I finished— The grade was the fifth grade, because I left fifth grade and I went to this— What was that school? Isabella? What was the school I went to? Isabella White? | 37:53 |
| Gerson Stroud | Did you go to— | 38:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Isabella White. | 38:09 |
| Gerson Stroud | — Isabella White? | 38:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | Mm—hmm. One year. | 38:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | I didn't know that. | 38:11 |
| Daisy Stroud | You didn't know that? In sixth grade I went to— I left there in fifth grade and I went to Isabella White in the sixth grade. Then I move to Second Ward. He didn't even know that. | 38:13 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:38:23]. | 38:21 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, I did. I had Miss Boyden as a teacher. | 38:23 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 38:25 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 38:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me about Isabella White School? | 38:27 |
| Daisy Stroud | Isabella White School was— As far as I remember, it was quite different from Alexander Street School. I don't think we had just about one grade there at this school, sixth grade, at this time that I went there. It wasn't like a sixth, seventh, on that order. But— | 38:29 |
| Gerson Stroud | There was an elementary school. | 38:53 |
| Daisy Stroud | The whole school, but I can't remember it being— It was so different from First Ward. | 38:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | It was probably constructed around that time because all of the children in Third Ward had been attending Maya Street. Maya Street became overcrowded, and they constructed this Isabella White School in Third Ward. And because Second Ward was also overcrowded, that is probably why they sent the sixth grade from First Ward— | 38:58 |
| Daisy Stroud | Over to Isabella White. | 39:31 |
| Gerson Stroud | — to Isabella White. They probably sent them for one year. And you know at that same time, they were sending the top rated, top graded students from First Ward to Maya Street, because Maya Street had two sixth grade classes. | 39:33 |
| Daisy Stroud | But the reason I was— My memory of Isabella White, it was almost— I don't remember interaction with a lot of other students, like Interaction with fifth and forth, like that. So in my mind, it's like we were there. That's all. The sixth grade was in this— That's it. That's the recollection I have. But anyhow, it was quite different from First Ward. | 39:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:40:27] did you go to the old building or did you go to the new building? | 40:26 |
| Daisy Stroud | Old. | 40:31 |
| Gerson Stroud | The old building? | 40:31 |
| Daisy Stroud | Mm—hmm. | 40:31 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, you went to the old Episcopal school. | 40:33 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, that was it. That's it, because it wasn't like a— | 40:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes, like a new facility. | 40:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | — school. Yeah, that's where I went to the old Episcopal school. That's right. | 40:40 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, that's probably so. The old Episcopal school was a private school, and it was used by a selected group of students. And the city took that school over after a period of time, and it became Third Ward Elementary School. And because of its growth and because of the need for repairs at the old Episcopal school, they constructed and built the New Third Ward Elementary school. But you went— | 40:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | So I went to the— | 41:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, you went to the old facility. | 41:33 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, that's right, because I remember it was old. It was quite different from— | 41:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes, it was. | 41:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | — where we were. It was though we were just put there temporarily. They found a place for us to go. And I can't remember any other class being there. It seems like we were alone in this place. | 41:39 |
| Gerson Stroud | How'd you get over there? | 41:56 |
| Daisy Stroud | How'd I get over there? | 41:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. How'd you get to it? | 41:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | Walked. | 41:59 |
| Gerson Stroud | That was some walk. | 42:02 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, that's right. We walked. We walked over there. | 42:03 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. | 42:07 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, we did. And we had to walk from First Ward over there. That's true. We did that for a year, and there was a big group of us to walk together. | 42:07 |
| Gerson Stroud | Oh yeah. | 42:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. So it wasn't bad, but we had to walk over there for this year. And I remember my teacher [indistinct 00:42:23] something. | 42:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Who was your teacher? | 42:23 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, her name was Mrs. Boyden. She's passed now. And she was so different. She was the first teacher that I had. She was a very tall, imposing lady with a big stature, and I was frightened to death [indistinct 00:42:44] Ms. Boyden. So anyhow, that's what I remember about Isabella White. And then I left there and went on to Second Ward. | 42:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. You started in Second Ward, then in the seventh grade [indistinct 00:43:02]? | 42:56 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, in the seventh. And then, having been skipped, then I was especially unhappy there because at least at First Ward, when we had recess, I could play with my friends who were young, in the grade below. But I was over there with everybody that was older than I was, whatever. So that wasn't a very pleasant year over there at Isabella White. | 43:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? So isolated? | 43:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. Also, something I happen to think about as far as schooling, the Whites that were in the block above us went to First Ward Elementary School. So see, we would all leave in the morning, and when we get to the corner, they would go that way, the First Ward school, and then we would go this way. But then it so happened that when we got to a little— We had finally had to pass each other, but I think the— I don't know whether the awareness or whatever had gotten so that we would actually— I don't know whether it's resentment or whatever. We wouldn't even let them walk on the sidewalk. | 43:41 |
| Chris Stewart | The White students? You wouldn't let them— | 44:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right, because there were more of us— | 44:47 |
| Chris Stewart | So you had— | 44:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | — than there were of— because it was just a few of them. So it was more of us, and I can remember that. And then we'd had some incidents as far as— that would make you not really like them as much. | 44:48 |
| Chris Stewart | When you walked, are you talking about walking to Isabella White School? | 45:02 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. Right. | 45:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall any of those? | 45:07 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, it's like calling names, like that. When they would get upset or whatever, then they would call names, and then we would. But we had the advantage because, see, there were more of us than there were of them. So that's what would happen. | 45:09 |
| Chris Stewart | So was First Ward Elementary School— You said that there were White students who went to First Ward Elementary School? | 45:32 |
| Daisy Stroud | I went to Alexander Street. | 45:39 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. Okay. I [indistinct 00:45:43]. | 45:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | I went to Alexander Street. I don't know whether I said First Ward. If I did say it, I didn't mean it. I meant to say Alexander Street. | 45:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. That's what I was thinking. | 45:49 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. I might have said that. | 45:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. So let's talk a little bit about Second Ward High School then. Again, I'm going to ask you about your teachers at Second Ward. What do you recall about your teachers? Did you have a favorite? | 45:54 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. I had a favorite teacher at Second Ward, and my favorite teacher at Second Ward was my English teacher. And I liked her mannerism. She was a very quiet, dignified person. She never raised her voice. She just commanded a lot of respect, and I think I liked her better or best of all my teachers. | 46:09 |
| Chris Stewart | What about in terms of coursework? What were your favorite classes? What did you enjoy most learning? | 46:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I liked history and I liked English, because I liked to read. Anything with reading, then I liked anything— | 46:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Any other things, any that were assigned to you and perhaps, B, that really struck you that you just loved? | 0:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, yes. Well, I used to like to read, what I enjoyed mostly, was books that were historical books. When we would have literature and when we'd be assigned like Macbeth things, I liked things like anything in literature and in English. I like things like that. | 0:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you learn about African American history at Second Ward? | 0:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, not that much. Not per se. You mean just a course in African American history? | 0:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Or in your history courses that you took. | 1:03 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, what I learned was what was in the books for everybody. So, like Africa, I learned. Whatever they wanted, the authors of the book would want us say about Africa, that's what I learned about it. Then I got the idea it was like a jungle or whatever. I had no idea it was, anything looked different. | 1:07 |
| Chris Stewart | What about Negro History Week? Do you recall? | 1:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, I remember it being set aside, Negro history, studying Negro history. We would talk about Mary McCloud Bethune, Marion Anderson, and we would just dedicate that week to the study of Negro history. | 1:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you recall having any heroes? People that you looked up to, either that were not necessarily in your community, but also outside of your community? People that you looked up to? | 2:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | People that I looked up to? You said that maybe people that I knew and just came in contact with, or people that I read about? | 2:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. Mm—hmm. | 2:42 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I remember being most impressed, I think, with Marion Anderson. I think she probably— And as I remember, I just often wondered how she could take— I guess I'm thinking in my own mind how she could go along with whatever it is that she had to go along. Mary Anderson to me was not an outspoken person. She let her works speak and everybody else was speaking otherwise, but she let her works. I never could understand why. I thought she had such wonderful patience to take that, and I guess that really impressed me. | 2:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember the point at which you felt like you were an adult or people treated you like an adult woman? | 3:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I think it was late in coming because, being the youngest, I was very sheltered. Very, very sheltered. I believe the time that I considered myself to be most mature was when I had finished college and went away from home to work. When I got out from under my mother's wing and my father's wing. I think that was a time that I considered myself to be most mature, and that was after I finished college. | 4:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me what sorts of values you think your parents or those people who were important to you who were around you instilled in you? | 4:34 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, my mother especially because she instilled in me the feeling of a lot of self—worth. She instilled the feeling that I could do everything. She had a lot of— She believed in getting prepared. Then after you got prepared, to express yourself. My mother was a writer. My mother used to write poetry. She loved to write. In fact, I have some of her poetry. My mother was outspoken as far as injustice. I guess I've inherited that from her because I like to write letters to the editor and always express yourself about injustices. So, I think she put that in me. | 4:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | My father instilled in me a desire to always do right. He wanted his children to do things that were respectable and right. Be law—abiding. That was the sort of thing, kind of raising that I got from him. | 6:08 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to just shift back to Second Ward just for a moment. Were your parents involved in your schooling in any sort of way? Involved in school organizations or—? | 6:37 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean coming to school or just—? | 6:52 |
| Chris Stewart | I'll say, for example, PTA. | 6:56 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh. I was trying to remember. I don't remember a PTA. I don't remember having the PTA. I know they were always involved because the teachers would make sure that they were informed with anything that would happen. But I don't remember a PTA, per se. | 6:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. What did you most like and then perhaps dislike about school at Second Ward? | 7:29 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I liked the idea of Second Ward because everybody was there. That's what I liked about it. All of my friends were there and it was just a big family, so I liked that sort of interaction. I don't know. I can't think of anything that I really just didn't like about Second Ward. | 7:37 |
| Chris Stewart | How did teachers discipline students? | 8:22 |
| Daisy Stroud | How did they? | 8:26 |
| Chris Stewart | How? | 8:26 |
| Daisy Stroud | At Second Ward? | 8:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 8:28 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, we had to, of course, go to the principal's office. If you did something wrong, you would have to go to the principal's office usually. Our principal, Mr. Grigsby, he might have you pick up all the papers. If you would do something that was too bad, he would have your mother come. He may send you home and have your mother come to school, bring you back to school. That was the only way you could get back to school. I guess that never happened to me because I was afraid of that. But anyhow. | 8:29 |
| Daisy Stroud | We had a teacher that would hit you, slap you. I had a teacher that would pinch you. A teacher that would take her hand and do like that, whatever. And nobody says abuse. We just went along with it. But I was trying to think. I don't know. I guess it had a corporal punishment then. I guess they must have had corporal punishment then. They must have been a part of it, too. | 9:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you find that the teachers had favorite students or that they would play favorites with certain students? | 9:50 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, yes. Yeah. | 9:58 |
| Chris Stewart | How would they? | 10:01 |
| Daisy Stroud | How would they do that? | 10:04 |
| Chris Stewart | What were the students who were— Yeah. | 10:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, you might have a teacher who, a male teacher who found some of the girl students more attractive than others, and they would probably be their favorites. Then you might find some who, I guess it could be that their sisters or brothers that preceded them could have made them favors. Then some of them, I guess, were attracted to some others. But you could easily find one being accused of being the favorite of the teacher. It'd just be common knowledge. Well, that one won't get the punishment that will because of whatever. | 10:07 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you do for fun in high school? | 10:59 |
| Daisy Stroud | During the school day or just high school per se? | 11:03 |
| Chris Stewart | High school per se. | 11:06 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, yes. Well, high school per se, well, we would have parties that would just be about most of the time. And to go to the movie. | 11:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Where did you go to the movie? | 11:20 |
| Daisy Stroud | I went to the Lincoln Theater. Yeah, that was our theater. That was the only theater that we could go into at that time. Right? | 11:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. Mm—hmm. What about at school? Did the school sponsor any dances or any extracurricular activities that you were involved with? | 11:31 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, they had dances at school. If they had dances, I could not go to the dances at school. I wasn't able. If they had a dance, I couldn't. We had dances at home, parties at home. But I don't know of any at school, going to the dances. But there was a place in Brooklyn called A Second Ward and Second Ward, and there were quite a few cafes along the route and a lot of activities could go along there if the students were allowed to go there. That's where a lot of students would go, to those places. But I couldn't go. No, I couldn't. | 11:39 |
| Chris Stewart | But your parents had you at the parties at home? | 12:25 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, I had to be there. | 12:28 |
| Chris Stewart | That's nice. That's nice. Do you recall during this period, family gatherings? What would be occasions for the family and perhaps an extended family to come together to celebrate? | 12:29 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, let me see. The only times that my family got together was— We didn't have a reunions, except maybe in the summertime when we'd go to the country, maybe everybody would be there. Like homecoming. I guess that's just about the time that we would mostly get together is when we'd have homecomings. But I don't recall my family, per se, just saying that we'll have a reunion of my family on this— Funerals. Usually at that time of death, we would usually. Everybody would come then. | 12:52 |
| Chris Stewart | What about holidays? What would occur in your house at holiday time? | 13:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, at holiday time, maybe we would— We'll say like Easter? Like that? | 13:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 13:56 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay. Easter, of course, everybody would have an Easter outfit. We would of course all go to church. I never was a part of an Easter parade, per se. There might have been, but whatever happened would happen at church, and then go back home. | 13:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Let's talk a little bit about church. What church did you attend when you were growing up? | 14:22 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, I went to Seventh Street Presbyterian Church. It's now First United Presbyterian Church. | 14:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Are you still a member? | 14:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, I'm still a member. | 14:38 |
| Chris Stewart | What kinds of events, community events, did the church sponsor for both young people and high school age? | 14:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean when I was growing up? | 14:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm—hmm. | 14:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, at church we would go on Sunday, we'd go for Sunday school and church. They would have to go back at night for church on Sunday. Then midweek, we'd have the young people, a prayer service. But I can't remember, as we were growing up, having a social occasion, per se, designated at the church, like a social occasion. | 14:58 |
| Chris Stewart | So, you graduated from Second Ward in 1937, would you say? | 15:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 15:40 |
| Chris Stewart | No, or was that for college? | 15:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | In '37. | 15:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 15:41 |
| Daisy Stroud | '37. | 15:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Then where to? | 15:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I went to college. I went one year at Hampton Institute, and I went the rest of my years at Fayetteville State Teacher's College. That's where I graduated from. | 15:50 |
| Chris Stewart | And you specialized in? | 16:06 |
| Daisy Stroud | Elementary education. Right. Primary. | 16:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me something about, let's start with Hampton first, what was college like? If you had to— | 16:13 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, Hampton is a very large school. As I told you before, I was very sheltered. My brothers, both brothers, had graduated where my— No. My oldest, my older brother had graduated, and my younger brother was in Hampton at the time. When I got ready to go to school, it was just assumed that I would go there. But Hampton is a very large school, and this was my first time away from home. I didn't like it. I was very homesick. In fact, I was so homesick that I wouldn't even go to class. I was just that homesick. I cried all the time. So, I had to leave Hampton. It was just too big. So then I went to Fayetteville State Teacher's College. | 16:21 |
| Chris Stewart | How was that different from Hampton? | 17:27 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, it's a smaller school and I felt a part of the school. I liked it much better. | 17:28 |
| Chris Stewart | [indistinct 00:17:37] can you talk to me a little bit about college life at Fayetteville Teacher's College? | 17:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I liked Fayetteville because, one thing, it was a teacher's college and everything there was around teaching. I think I liked that best, too, because everything was concentrated in the teaching profession because it was nothing but for teachers. Most of the students came from smaller towns, but I had a very special family relationship with them. It was very close relationship, and I really enjoyed that kind of life there. | 17:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you maintain friendships with the students? | 18:20 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 18:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Throughout your life? | 18:27 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. In fact, I went back to college for my reunion year before last, and I stayed with one of my college classmates. So, a lot of good memories. | 18:27 |
| Chris Stewart | And you graduated and began teaching? | 18:45 |
| Daisy Stroud | I graduated, and when I graduated, my sisters were teaching here in Charlotte Mecklenburg. There was a rule that they would not hire more than two out of a family in the schools. So, I didn't get a job, although I was qualified. I had to go to a place called Rockingham, North Carolina and teach, so I taught there for two years. Then I came back to Charlotte when I got married. Came back and then I worked in a housing project for a short time. After my husband came back from the Army, then we had our children, and then I went back to teaching. | 18:49 |
| Chris Stewart | We've made the connection. | 19:41 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. | 19:42 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to ask you just one more question before we actually start talking to your husband. And that is, I noticed on your license plate that you're a member of a sorority. | 19:43 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 20:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk to me about the sorority? Were you a member at Fayetteville? | 20:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, they didn't have them at Fayetteville. I only joined after I got out of that. | 20:09 |
| Chris Stewart | As an alumnus? | 20:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. Yes. | 20:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you talk to me a little bit about what, first of all, why you joined this particular, the Deltas? | 20:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I joined the Deltas because I was impressed with some deltas that I had met before. Somehow or another, I just got the idea that this may typify what the other deltas would be like. Then I knew my sisters were AKAs, so I just felt that Delta was the place for me, so I broke the ranks and went into Delta. | 20:16 |
| Chris Stewart | What did your sisters think about you breaking rank? | 20:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, they were very unhappy because they had taught me the Alpha Kappa Alpha hymn, and they knew that I was going Alpha Kappa Alpha. They don't believe it today. She doesn't. They just can't believe that I went to Delta, but I always wanted to be a Delta. | 20:53 |
| Chris Stewart | What is the difference between the two? Why did you decide to go— | 21:10 |
| Daisy Stroud | Really, there is no difference. | 21:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 21:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | Really. Just a difference in the minds, I think, because there's the same in each. Some here and some there, whatever. But the concept I have of it is that it's different, but I could not prove that because I'd have a big argument on my face. But the concept is I don't think I made the wrong choice. I don't think I did. | 21:18 |
| Chris Stewart | What would the organization look for in a young woman or in a woman to join Delta Sigma Theta? What kind of woman would they want to join their organization? | 21:44 |
| Daisy Stroud | To join Delta Sigma Theta? | 21:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 21:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I think the person that would join Delta Sigma Theta would first have to be concerned with helping somebody. That's the impression I have of Delta. Delta wants to help serve the public. I really think that they really do. I think Delta is my perfect example of a sisterhood. I consider it a real sisterhood, and a sisterhood that wants to help somebody. That's the impression I have of it. | 21:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that what you meant when you said the concept in your mind is different from the AKAs? | 22:46 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. Yes. I guess I would not like to take away from the AKAs because they help, too. But I think the sort of bonding in a sorority, I consider it more bonding in the Deltas than in the AKAs. That's my feeling. | 22:52 |
| Chris Stewart | That's your experience, sure. | 23:14 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. | 23:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Sure. Do you still maintain contact and are you still participating as an alumnus in that sorority? | 23:20 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes, I'm still participating. | 23:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Wonderful. Are there any other organizations that you were involved in in school while you were in college? Teaching organizations or— | 23:28 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, I'm not. Just now the Retired Teachers Union, but not any other organizations. I've always been a club person. I always belonged to a lot of clubs. | 23:41 |
| Chris Stewart | But those were after you left college? Or did you belong to— | 23:58 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh, a lot of clubs during high school. College, high school. | 24:04 |
| Chris Stewart | What kinds of clubs? | 24:08 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, like social clubs. Always been in a club. Always starting a club. Right. | 24:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, that's nice. It's nice to have that companionship, right? | 24:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | Right. Right. | 24:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, if you'd like, I can talk to your husband now and then we can come together. | 24:24 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay. | 24:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that all right? | 24:31 |
| Daisy Stroud | That's fine. That's fine. | 24:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Is there anything else that I didn't ask you about that you would like to have included on your portion of this? | 24:33 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, I can't think of anything. | 24:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 24:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay? | 24:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, if you do, you can certainly go on and let me know. | 24:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | All right. Okay. All right. | 24:51 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm going to— | 24:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | Excuse me. | 24:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Shift the microphone. I'm going to start in the same place that I started with your wife, to ask you if you have always lived here in Charlotte. | 24:56 |
| Gerson Stround | I was born in Charlotte. I attended elementary school in Charlotte, high school in Charlotte, Johnson C. Smith in Charlotte. But as far as home is concerned, it's just home. But I have worked out of Charlotte. I have worked in Asbury Park, New Jersey; Ocean Grove, New Jersey; I have worked in Washington DC; and I have worked in Glowing Rock, North Carolina. I'm also a veteran of World War II. I spent approximately three—and—a—half years in service. During the time that I was in service in the United States, I was at Fort Bragg; at Camp Atterbury, Indiana; at Fort Wachucka, Arizona, on maneuvers in Louisiana. | 25:10 |
| Gerson Stround | Left the states from Hampton Roads, Virginia, went on a victory ship to Italy. We entered in Sicily and then the ship went on up to Naples. We stayed in Naples about a day and a half, maybe two days, in port and left there and went to another port where we landed, Leghorn, Italy. After landing in Leghorn, Italy, our ship was rammed, was cut in half, and we were immediately moved, taken off of the ship, and we were placed in a staging area. We were re—clothed and re—equipped, and then we were sent into various combat areas. We went from there to Viareggio, Italy. In fact, I traveled more extensively in Italy than I have in the United States. | 26:24 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you in the Army, did you say? | 27:52 |
| Gerson Stround | Approximately three—and—a—half years. | 27:56 |
| Chris Stewart | And you spent how much time in Italy? | 28:00 |
| Gerson Stround | Around 18 months. | 28:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Were you there till the end of the war? | 28:05 |
| Gerson Stround | Yes, I was there until the end of the war. When the war ended in 1945, our unit was going through the Brunner Pass into Hungary, and we got the word that the war was over. That they were in the process of signing the Armistice. They had our unit to return to a city in Italy called Turino, which was in the northern section of Italy. We were placed in a very, very nice area that hadn't been interrupted too much with the war activity. We were placed there and we stayed there to help disarm the German soldiers. From there, after we spent maybe four or five weeks there, we were sent back to Viareggio, which was a headquarters. The 92nd division where I was located. | 28:07 |
| Gerson Stround | When we were there, they immediately opened a University of Study Command in Florence, Italy for those soldiers who could qualify to go to the University of Study Command. I did qualify. I went to the University of Study Command in Florence, Italy and stayed there. They had one—month sessions. The reason they had one—month sessions was as the soldiers were evaluated as far as the total number of points that they had acquired, which determined when you would be discharged or whether or not you would be assigned to another unit. You would have to leave your original unit and go back to your original unit when it became time for you to be reassigned elsewhere or to be returned to the United States. So, that's why they had them on a one—month basis. | 29:26 |
| Gerson Stround | You would have to be successful with what you did that one month in order to be able to apply and remain the second month and the third month. Of course, I was there from the time of its inception until the session before they closed. Because at that time, all of the soldiers were being redeployed elsewhere. I came back to the United States on December. I came back to the United States about— We landed in New York on Christmas day, but we couldn't get off of the ship and couldn't get assigned to a camp until December 26th. We were then sent to Fort Dicks, New Jersey. And there, those of us who had the points, were processed and we were discharged. I was discharged on December the 31st from Fort Bragg. I got home on the night of December the 31st, about nine o'clock in the evening. | 30:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me a little bit more about this university that you were— I mean, the— | 32:14 |
| Gerson Stround | The University of Study Command? | 32:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 32:25 |
| Gerson Stround | University of Study Command— | 32:25 |
| Chris Stewart | I don't know what it is. I'm not familiar with it at all. | 32:25 |
| Gerson Stround | The University of Study Command was a command that was created by the United States Army in conjunction with the University of Florence in Florence, Italy. Where the University of Study Command was located was in the area that had been in the buildings and the area that had been a part of— | 32:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Thank you so much. | 32:56 |
| Gerson Stround | That had been a part of Musselini's headquarters when he was in Florence. The University of Florence surrounded this whole area, so the two were combined. But for the American soldiers that did not speak English sufficiently, nor could not comprehend the Italian language sufficiently, they imported American university professors there to teach the classes. | 32:59 |
| Chris Stewart | I see. | 33:43 |
| Gerson Stround | All students who were admitted, had to be a high school graduate. They had to have an IQ of 110 or higher, and they had to have a good service record. They had to indicate the courses or the area of interest in which they were at that time. All who were admitted had to take three classes per day. We were required to go to Reveille in the morning. After that, we would go to breakfast. Then we would go to a nine o'clock class, a 10 o'clock class, an 11 o'clock class. At 12 o'clock, everybody would go to lunch from 12:00 to 1:00. | 33:46 |
| Gerson Stround | At one o'clock, maybe between one and three, somewhere between that period of time, you had to take one hour of physical activity, physical training. Within that period, while you were waiting, they had the university libraries open for you to study. They had facilities like the USOs available for you to go to meet your other friend, to play ping pong, volleyball or whatever you wanted to. That was a very, very pleasant experience. | 35:03 |
| Gerson Stround | Another thing about the University of Study Command, they had cultural activities to occupy the soldiers every day. It was just a matter of choice according to your taste. At the USOs, it was the only players during the time when we landed in Italy, where every day they served ice cream. That was a rarity during those days. Every day, they would serve watermelon, and that too was a rarity. They served Coca—Colas and soft drinks. If you didn't mind waiting in the line long enough, you could even get a hot dog or a hamburger. These were unusual pleasures that the soldiers got, who went there. | 36:00 |
| Gerson Stround | Florence is such a fine city, and it is a city that is filled with art and history. That they have all of those tours arranged for the soldiers, the tours to the different churches. It's very close to the Leaning Tower of Pisa. You could go to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, you could go to all of the churches, you could go to all of the museums. There was just so much to do. And in order to entertain the soldiers also, they brought a number of outstanding shows and programs over there. So, it was just like a first—class vacation as well as getting education. | 37:26 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you involved in this program? | 38:30 |
| Gerson Stround | I said it was for one month. | 38:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Month, but how long did you— | 38:36 |
| Gerson Stround | I was there from June, July, August, September, October. I was there for five months. | 38:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. | 38:48 |
| Gerson Stround | Yes. I was there for five months. | 38:54 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to take you back to Charlotte and ask you about your parents. | 38:54 |
| Gerson Stround | All right. | 39:01 |
| Chris Stewart | What did your father do here? | 39:02 |
| Gerson Stround | My father was a waiter. But after a period of time, he became a head waiter. My father was the head waiter at the old Charlotte Hotel when the old Charlotte Hotel was on the corner of Church in Poplar. That's where he spent a bulk of his years there as a waiter. | 39:02 |
| Gerson Stround | Prior to that, there was a manufacturer's club across the street, which was an exclusive club for white men. My father also worked there prior to, well, going to the Charlotte Hotel, but prior to that, he worked at the Selwyn Hotel. The old Selwyn Hotel that was located where the Marriott Hotel is located now. Because of the training and experience that he got in those areas, when they first opened the Charlotte Hotel, he went there as one of a chosen few to work in that dining room at the Charlotte Hotel. | 39:41 |
| Gerson Stround | The first head waiter was a man that they chose from a country club in Cleveland, Ohio, a man by the name of Shelton. Mr. Shelton. Mr. Shelton came here and he brought a group of waiters with him, but he also chose a group of waiters from Charlotte. My father was one of those. My father was one of his captains and then he moved up to the second head waiter. When Mr. Shelton left Charlotte, again, my father became the head waiter. He spent years there serving in that capacity. | 40:38 |
| Gerson Stround | During the Depression, they closed many places in and around Charlotte. They closed the dining room at the old Charlotte Hotel, which meant that the men who were serving as waiters at that time had to find additional, other employment. That must have been around 1935 or 1936. The manager of the Charlotte Hotel at that time was a man by the name of PJ Colhammer. Mr. Colhammer loved my father. Mr. Colhammer always said that my father was a whitish Black man that he had ever met. | 41:22 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you think he meant by that? | 42:31 |
| Gerson Stround | With his characteristics, with his character, with his manners, his mannerisms, his attitude, his ability to work with people, his respect for people, and the respect that people had for him. I think that that's what he meant. When Mr. Colhammer left here at that time, Mr. Colhammer went to Washington DC because the hotel here was just failing. In fact, it just about closed. Mr. Colhammer became the manager of an exclusive apartment hotel. A 2400 apartment hotel in Washington DC. Mr. Colhammer, when they renovated that place completely, Mr. Colhammer said that he wanted my father to be the head waiter there at the hotel in Washington, the 2400 apartment hotel in Washington. | 42:36 |
| Gerson Stround | When I finished high school, when my brothers and I finished high school— Yeah, this was in '37. There really was no work for us here. There wasn't anything that we could do. We didn't have the money to go to college, so we decided that we would work for a year and save our money and then go to college. So, Mr. Colhammer told my father that if he were to accept that job, that he would give both of his boys a job there at the hotel. Of course, both of us went there and we worked there for that year. | 43:55 |
| Gerson Stround | When they started reopening the Charlotte Hotel and then the Charlotte Country Club opened up, my father came back. We came back. My father went to the Charlotte Country Club and he worked out there as a head waiter. They never reopened the dining room at the Charlotte Hotel, so he worked at the Charlotte Country Club as a head waiter, he worked at the Meyers Park Country Club as a head. And he worked at the, just part—time after he became too old to really do the job, he worked at the Beringer Hotel and he died while he was working at the Beringer Hotel. | 44:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember your father telling you about what he was most proud of about his job and about the kind of work that he did? You sound like you're very proud of your father as a head waiter. I wonder if he talked to you about what he was most proud about. | 45:48 |
| Gerson Stround | I was proud of my father, and not necessarily because he was a head waiter, but I was proud of him as a man. I was proud of him because he was a role model for his boys. There were five of us, five boys and one girl. He always dressed properly. He was as neat as any person that you could meet and he taught each one of us the same qualities of neatness. He taught us the importance of a sterling character. He taught us what character— | 46:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | He instilled this in all of the people with whom he worked. My father had a reputation for assisting more young men to go to college at Johnson C Smith University than anybody else. And even today, as I go around this country, I come in contact with different individuals. Different individuals who are still living, who had the experience would say that, "This fellow's father not only helped me to go to school, gave me an opportunity, but he taught me how to be a good person. He taught me good manners. He taught me what it meant to be respectful." And those are some of the qualities in him that I remember about him. | 0:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me a little bit about your mother? What? Did your mother work outside the home? | 1:01 |
| Gerson Stroud | No. My mother didn't. During those days, it was a lady's place in the home and to take care of the children, this is what she did. She stayed home, and she took care of the children. She took care of us. And do you remember the old saying about, "Monday is wash day, Tuesday is", what they say about Tuesday? Or, "Tuesday is something. Wednesday is ironing day?" | 1:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 1:49 |
| Gerson Stroud | We didn't have any washing machines. We didn't have all of the modern electrical appliances. Now, when we were in school, this didn't apply to us. But if we were not in school on Mondays, my mother would put those three wash tubs out in that backyard on a wash stand. And every one of us assisted in washing those clothes. And if, let's see, Monday was wash day. I've forgotten what Tuesday was, but Wednesday was ironing day, ironing day. And now my mother did teach my sister how to iron. | 1:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | And she did not require the boys to do any ironing. But she said that she wanted each one of us to be self—sufficient as far as being able to take care of a home and being able to take care of ourselves. Because she said, "In life when you're married that it's possible that you may have to do all of these things." And my mother would cite an experience to us. That happened in her own family. | 2:46 |
| Gerson Stroud | My mother had, but one brother, and shortly after he married, his wife had a heart attack. And it was revealed that this problem was going to be permanent. And my uncle and his wife had just gotten a new apartment, and this meant that he was going to have to do everything. So my mother and her sisters would take time and he lived in Washington, and they would go to spend time helping him because of the tremendous responsibility that he had in taking care of his wife and taking care of his home, but he had to work. And so she used this as an illustration on an example, and said to us that, "If the time should ever come, that is necessary for you to do this. I want you to be prepared." | 3:29 |
| Chris Stewart | So what kinds of things did she teach you about being self—sufficient? | 4:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | At home? Well, first of all, all of us had duties. All of us had duties. In the morning, before we could go to school, we had to make up our beds, clean up our rooms, and each one of us would have an additional duty that would rotate. My mother was always in the kitchen supervising the making of the breakfast, but some of us, one of us, or two of us would always be in there with her when she would make that bread. And every morning she made that bread just as regular. We didn't buy no bread. We would go in there, she would make that bread. | 4:50 |
| Gerson Stroud | Every morning we had a big pot of grits. If we didn't have grits this morning, we would have oatmeal, either grits or oatmeal. And we didn't have meat every day, but whenever we did have meat, that meat would be prepared. And we didn't have an electric stove, not a gas stove. We had a wood burning stove. Somebody had to get up, and get that fire started in that kitchen. | 5:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | And somebody else would work in that kitchen, and everybody would make up their own beds. Nobody would leave that house in the morning if that house wasn't organized and somebody would clean out the ashes out of every one of the stoves are the fireplace in the morning before we would go. So as far as housekeeping and organization is concerned, that's what my mother did for us. | 6:17 |
| Gerson Stroud | And she would always instill in us some of the principals that Ben Franklin would always propose, "A stitching time, save nine. A penny saved is a penny earned. Honesty is the best policy." all of those, she would just instill the, hmm. And just like my father, she was the same things that my father would do. And he would do it going and coming, because he was working all the time. She was there all the time to emphasize it to be sure that it was done, to be sure. And then my mother was a religious person. | 6:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | We went to church. If we lived with her, we were going to go to Sunday school, and we were going to go to church. And that church was a center of our experiences of our associates, of our growth, of our development. Our church always had a youth program for every holiday we would have a program at church. Easter program, Children's Day, Christmas, always a program. And we love to go to participate in those programs. And then at our church, we would have various types of entertainment, fish fries. Every year we would have the church picnic, and that was a highlight to go on that church picnic. And we normally had the ministers that were interested in the youth, and they would participate and play games with the youth. Out in the church yard, they had what you call that [indistinct 00:09:45] when they knock the ball? | 8:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Croquet. | 9:47 |
| Gerson Stroud | Croquet. Yeah. They had croquet. And whenever we would go to the church, we would have to play croquet. And at our church, our minister built an annex. And in the annex, the idea was, and this was many years ago, to have basketball in there, and to have a reception area where all of the social activities could take place, and also where they could have the overflow of the Sunday school classes in this annex. But they always had difficulty with finance. And I don't ever remember that facility being absolutely completed. It was partially completed, and it was used, but I don't remember it having been completed. | 9:49 |
| Chris Stewart | What church was this— | 10:53 |
| Gerson Stroud | This was Simpson Memorial Methodist Church. And this was located on South Graham Street. Over there in the area where they're going to build the new football stadium, which you hear about. And I grew up in that section, the football stadium where be on a portion of the ground where I grew up. | 10:55 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the name of the neighborhood that you grew up? | 11:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | Third Ward. I lived in the Third Ward section. | 11:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me a little something about your neighborhood, about your neighbors who lived there? | 11:28 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. You know, it's a funny thing. You never know about life and you never know what happened in your life, or why were different decisions made in your family. But when my mother and father first came to Charlotte, my father is a native of Chapel Hill. | 11:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, he is? | 12:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. And my father always said that, that he is a member of the Alumni Association of the University of North Carolina, yet Blacks could never attend the University of North Carolina. But he worked at the University of North Carolina as a youth, and he got his basic training at the Carolina Inn. There on the campus of the University of North Carolina. He said that this is where he first got started. As a Chapel Hill youth, he went there and he started out in the kitchen, working in the kitchen, and he moved from the kitchen to the dining room and from the dining room, that's when he moved out in, he went to Henderson, North Carolina, Hendersonville. | 12:07 |
| Gerson Stroud | It was a resort place. And see, my mother lived in Spartanburg, South Carolina. And my mother went there to work also. This is where they met and they got married. And when they got married, they came to Charlotte. And when they came to Charlotte, they lived on Hill Street in Third Ward, just about two or three doors below the old Good Samaritan Hospital. When my father got his job, and first started working, he said that my mother was his influence. He says, my mother influenced him to buy a house, don't continue to pay rent, but to buy a house. And they went from Hill Street to where we lived in Third Ward on a street when we first moved, it was [indistinct 00:14:16] Street, [indistinct 00:14:19]. They later changed the name to Jefferson Street. [indistinct 00:14:25] Street was a one block street that was sandwiched between Mint street, church Street, Palmer Street, and Moorehead Street. | 13:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | It was a one block street. We were surrounded with White families. And this street was a street where they were selling homes to Blacks. And my mother and father bought this house, and we often wondered, "Why would you buy here? Why did you buy this house?" And my mother said that where they made this purchase, it was within walking distance of everything that we would be involved with. My father could work, walk to Hotel Charlotte. Two and three times a day, we could walk to church, we could walk to Myers Street Elementary School, we could walk to Second Ward High School, and we wouldn't have the problem of transportation. And it made it very easy. | 14:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | Another thing, we were close to the downtown section where during those days, we didn't have checking accounts. And when you received a bill to pay your water, you had to pay that water bill. And you had to go pay that light bill, and you'd have to run downtown and pay your insurance if the insurance man didn't come to your house to collect it. Well, my father would make the money, but my mother actually managed the money. | 15:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. | 16:38 |
| Gerson Stroud | And when he would bring the money there, my mother would outline how that money was going to be spent. And every Monday the building and loan payment had to be made. | 16:39 |
| Gerson Stroud | One of us would take that payment down on Third Street to the building and loan office to make that payment. Another would take the electric light bill to Duke Power Company, which at that time was located where the Duke Power Building is now. But it was just three or four blocks, you see. And another would go there to pay that. The water bill, as long as I can remember, you pay the water bill where you pay the water down at City Hall. But we would walk down to City Hall to pay the water bill. We've got this fundamental training in how to care for your accounts, and how to take care of your money. And then another thing, when my mother would give us this money and she would tell us that, "This bill is for a dollar and 72 cents. | 17:01 |
| Gerson Stroud | Here's a dollar 75 cents. I want you to bring those three pennies back." We brought them back. And when it came time to buy groceries, we had a wagon. Nobody delivered any groceries. And we didn't have an automobile, but we had a wagon that we built, and we would go with my mother they had then these small neighborhood stores, and they had one small E&P in the community. And we would go with her, and she would go into the E&P. All go into the small neighborhood store, and she would get 25 cents worth of lard 25 cents worth of sugar, a pound of butter, so many pounds of grits, so much flour. | 18:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | She would buy the fresh vegetables there. These little stores at that time would carry everything, the fresh vegetables. And if it were on a Friday, we would go there on Friday, and buy the fish that we were going to have. Whatever was in season at the time, you could get it there. But we would always take this wagon along, so that we could pull the wagon and bring these items back. But we were with her and we knew what she was buying. And we knew what was being spent. And this was a kind of training that we got. This was basic thing. | 19:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you live in this house during the entire time you were growing up? | 20:12 |
| Gerson Stroud | As long as I can remember. Now, I was born on Hill Street, but my parents bought this house on [indistinct 00:20:32] Street, which became Jefferson Street. And I can remember when we first went there, the house didn't have an inside bathroom. | 20:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Is this the Hill Street house, or— | 20:45 |
| Gerson Stroud | No, this is the [indistinct 00:20:51] Street house. | 20:49 |
| Chris Stewart | — okay. | 20:51 |
| Gerson Stroud | It did not have an inside bathroom. And we used tubs, the same tub that was used to wash our clothes in, we'd use that tub to take our baths in, and we would heat our water on the kitchen stove. We had pots, I don't have a pot in here, but that's one of the old kettles that we had. And we had pots that would sit right on the stove, and the water would boil, and we would take it into the room where we would have heat, and we would bathe in this tub. Well, when we first went there, wasn't one house on that street that had running water, and everybody on that street went to this house with our buckets to get water. | 20:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | And if I remember correctly, everybody paid the lady 50 cents a month for water. And all of us had had duties too. To in the mornings, go get so much water and in the afternoon and in the evening, go get so much water.I know I was in Maya Street Elementary School when they came through and they ran the sewage line and they ran the water line. And then my parents built the bathroom on the back of the house and they brought in the running water. | 21:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | And that's when this change came. And then as our family started growing, my parents added a complete section on the rear of the house that would accommodate the rest of the family. And we stayed there until redevelopment when they were getting ready to come through with Independence Boulevard, and getting ready to redevelop all of that area. And that's when the city took the property. And of course, where we actually lived, the property is still vacant, but when Richardson builds the football stadium, that would be a part of the stadium. And I'm going to go ask them to give my seat. | 22:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? Sounds like a good proposition. Where there people in your neighborhood that you looked up to in your neighborhood? | 23:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | In the neighborhood, we were closely knit. There weren't but eight houses on this street where I lived, that I said was [indistinct 00:24:15], and then Jefferson. But everybody on that street was like family. And we were all young together. We all grew up together. And even now, there were just a few of us left, but we still are very close. And everybody on that street was just like an aunt or an uncle, everybody. So I don't know, I just don't know about anybody in the community that I would pick out as being outstanding over somebody else. | 23:53 |
| Chris Stewart | You said that this street was just one block long— | 25:18 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 25:26 |
| Chris Stewart | — that surrounded and it was in the middle of— | 25:27 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 25:27 |
| Chris Stewart | — really a White neighborhood. | 25:27 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 25:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Your wife talked about walking back and forth to school and some of the things that she experienced when she was walking back and forth to school when she was going to Isabella. What was it like for you to walk through the White neighborhoods to get to Myers Street, or to Second Ward or to church or whatever? | 25:29 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, let me just say, draw this picture just a little more. I gave you this square area in which this street was located and across Palmer Street, all of that section in there was White also. But going up about a block from there, it became solid Black. Winiford Street, the southern end of Church Street, Winona Street, Gold Hill, all of that was solid Black. And all of those children walked to school too. So the Whites and the Blacks were walking to school together. | 25:49 |
| Gerson Stroud | Now, with that number, walking to school together, of course you were going to have some conflicts, but I don't think that there were many major conflicts. I really don't. I think that you had some, but I don't think that you had major conflicts. But I do know that we had to pass Alexander Graham Junior High School. And when we would pass that school, we would look at it at Marvel at what a beautiful school that is. And we have to pass that school and still walk on over to either Myers Street or Second World. We did. We often said that, and we often thought that. | 26:45 |
| Chris Stewart | So you attended Myers Street School? | 27:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. I attended Myers Street Elementary School, | 27:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Which was a fairly large school. It was really probably the largest, wasn't it, of the Black elementary school? | 27:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 27:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me a little bit about that school? What about teachers, maybe? | 27:51 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. When I went to school there, we had a principal, Babe White, what was babe's name, David? We just called her Babe White. And Ms. White was a big woman, and she ruled that school with a long switch. | 27:56 |
| Gerson Stroud | And when I started the school there, when I was six years old, I can remember that everybody had to line up on the outside of the school. And all of the teachers would come out and they would read their list. And when they would read the list, then those students would walk into the school with their students. I don't know whether you know anything, or whether you've seen any of the pictures or not. But the old Myers Street School, the one that I attended was a frame building. | 28:25 |
| Gerson Stroud | And it looked just like a train. They would have the engine that was the first part of the building that was constructed. And as they added to it, they would add another room or another section. And it continued, and it continued until it looked just like a long train with an engine pulling their other coaches. But I remember it quite distinctly in the original portion of Myers street, elementary school was a two—story frame building. | 29:11 |
| Gerson Stroud | On the lower level. There were first grade classes on the upper level is where the sixth grade classes were located. And then you move through this building on the next level with the second grade classes, and then a little below the third and the fourth, and then back on the back, they had built another one of his two stories, and they would have fourth and fifth grade classes there. And I was in the first grade there. And in the first grade, I had at a first grade teacher by the name of Miss Queen Esther Washington. And just as my wife described her teacher, this was the prettiest lady I had ever met in my life. Ms. Queen Ester Washington. She was pretty, she was warm, she was loving, she was caring, and she was everything that an elementary child could expect of an elementary first grade teacher. | 30:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | And then I went to second grade, I had Ms. Marrow for a teacher. Ms. Marrow was not like Ms. Washington, but Ms. Marrow was a more stern, exacting person, but she was a good teacher, and the children really loved her. My third grade teacher was Mrs. Butler. She was a Jameson at that time, but she later married, and she was a Miss Mrs. Butler, but I knew her as Ms. Jameson. | 31:41 |
| Gerson Stroud | And you know, when we were at Myers Street School, they had the double sections. They said that the writer students would go to the afternoon section. And I happened to have gone to the afternoon section. We would go to school at 12:00, and we would stay in school until four. The ones in the morning would go at eight and stay until 12. But the same teacher had to teach those children. And Ms. Jameson was our teacher. | 32:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | But we loved her though, she was quite a teacher. And in fifth grade, I had a teacher by the name of Miss Dorothea Williamson. Miss Dorothea Williamson was a strict stern teacher, but Ms. Williamson knew what she was doing. And in one of the things that was so outstanding that I remember about Ms. Williamson was that she sent two of us, a fellow by the name of Frank Youngblood and me to FW Woodworth five and 10 cent store on North Tryon Street, to buy some material for a store that we were building within the classroom so that the children could get the experience in making purchases in the store and learning how to spend the money and get the proper change. | 33:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | And also learning how to use fractions in purchasing. So she sent Frank Youngblood and me to FW Woolworth with a dollar to buy some material that cost 66 and two third cents. And she told us to, "Be sure and bring back the proper change." And the clerk we thought gave us, we thought the clerk had short changed us a penny. And we told her that we thought that she had short changed us. And she said that she hadn't, and we told her that we wanted to see the manager. | 34:25 |
| Gerson Stroud | And the lady sent and got the manager, and the manager came and saw us. And we told the manager that we thought that we had been short changed, that we needed another penny, and we could not go back to school until we got it. And he gave us the penny. And we went back to class and we had to tell that experience. And the teacher said that this is what she was attempting to instill in us that, "To learn these fractions and to be sure that you got back everything that you would do." | 35:28 |
| Gerson Stroud | And just like her experience, we had the two sixth grade classes there at Myers Street. And these sixth grade classes were made up of students from the other elementary schools as well as from Myers Street there. And this is when I met her brother. He came from Alexander Street School to Myers Street School. And he was in the same sixth grade class with me. And of course we left there at the end of that year, and then went on to Second Ward in seventh grade. | 36:08 |
| Chris Stewart | And were you at the Second Ward at the same time, the two of you? | 36:59 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. Yes. | 37:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that where you met? | 37:08 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, we met, but he was— | 37:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | He was my half brother. He wasn't [indistinct 00:37:14]. | 37:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. | 37:09 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, we met. | 37:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. | 37:09 |
| Chris Stewart | But that's about it. So tell me a little bit about your experience with Second Ward then. What were your favorite teachers, your favorite courses, what did you like about the school? | 37:18 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I had two brothers and a sister to have attended there. | 37:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. | 37:47 |
| Gerson Stroud | And all I ever heard was Second Ward. And my mother would carry us to different programs at Second Ward, because she said that she wanted us to have the experience of what was taking place there. And she would take us to commencement exercises, because she would tell us that, "That's where I want to see you. I want to see you in that line, and I want to see you with your cap and gown, and I want to see you walk across that stage and get your diploma." And this was always uppermost in our minds. This was just uppermost. And I cannot tell you specifically that one teacher was more outstanding than another, but I could point out so many teachers that were outstanding as far as I was concerned. I remember one teacher. We'll I can't— | 37:49 |
| Chris Stewart | I've heard this. I've heard this about the Second Ward teachers a lot. Every person that we've talked to has just gone on and on about the teachers at Second Ward and I'd like to know why people feel this way about these teachers. I mean, they were obviously very important to you as students, and I wonder if there's a way that you can articulate why they were so important. | 39:12 |
| Gerson Stroud | You had a feeling from the beginning that they were not me centered. That they were, you centered. And I never had a feeling that the teachers were not interested in you, and that they wanted you to succeed. Whenever you have an institution, or an organization as big as that, it's an impossibility to get every one of them to be perfect, or outstanding. But you can be blessed with a sufficient number of them who influenced you, and gave you the basic background that would make you feel like that, "Where would I be without you?" And that's just a feeling, I could just pick out different teachers. I couldn't just pick out one. | 39:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Could you give me an instance of that kind of, you said that the teachers were always focused on the students. Could you think of an instance or an example of something like that? | 40:53 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I had an occasion not long ago to talk with the widow of my eighth grade civics teacher. And just talking generally, and these things just came back to me that in addition to his teaching me civics, he taught me some fundamentals of living. You know, we didn't have many ways of making money during those days. I was in eighth grade, but I wanted to make some money. I wanted something for myself. So I saw an advertisement in a magazine that said, "If you wanted to be a salesman and you wanted to make money, answer this advertisement." And I clipped that out of the magazine, wrote my name on it and sent it in. A few days later, a sales representative came to my house and told my mother that they had this request from me and they wanted to know if I would be a salesman for them. | 41:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | And so they asked, "Well, what were you selling?" I mean, she says, "The American Magazine, Woman's Home Companion and Liberty Magazine." And the American Magazine would sell for 25 cents. And for every American magazine that I would sell, I'd get six cents profit. The Woman's Home companion would sell for 10 cents. And for every Woman's Home Companion that I would sell, I would get FOUR cents profit. | 42:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | The Liberty Magazine would sell for five cents, and for every Liberty Magazine that I would sell, I would get one and a half cents. But this wasn't all of it. For every magazine that I would sell, I would get a certificate and they had a catalog. And with so many certificates, you could get so many different gifts. Well, I started with this, and I would take the certificates that I got, and I would get baseball equipment, because nowhere else could we get baseball equipment. We wanted to play baseball, but nowhere else. So I would get these, but I said that so I could get to tell you about the teacher. As I would take these papers and sell them, we didn't have too many people who could really read an American magazine, [indistinct 00:44:38] Liberty. But they would take those papers because of me. | 43:25 |
| Gerson Stroud | But invariably they would say, "When are you going to get an Afro—American? A Pittsburgh courier, a Norfolk Journaling Guide, or Chicago Defender? If you get those papers, we will buy them from you just like that." | 44:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | So I started ordering those papers, and I started selling those papers. And my civics teacher, he and I would always talk, and I was in his class for civics the last period in the day. And he would always ask me, "Now, what are you doing with your spare time? What do you do when you leave here in the afternoon?" I said, "Well, I've been selling those magazines." But I said, "I've had so many people requesting that I sell the different papers that I mentioned that I have decided to get those." I said, "But I have found that all the boys who are selling those receive them on Fridays. But I was told that they come in at the train station on Thursday, and if I could leave here earlier enough on Thursday to go down there and pick up those papers, I would have a head start on the others and I could sell all of my papers and I could make more money." | 45:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | So he said, "All right." He says, "Your assignment for this week is such and such a thing. You do your assignment and get it to me in advance. If it's approved, I'll let you go." And he did. | 46:43 |
| Gerson Stroud | Right, right. What'd you do with it? I said, "Well, I discussed it with my mother and I told her what I had." And see, we didn't have a cafeteria at Second Ward at that time. | 0:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, really? | 0:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | No. We had a place where you could buy hot soup and crackers and a hot dog and milk and soft drinks. | 0:18 |
| Chris Stewart | And what years were you at Second Ward? | 0:31 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was there in '36. Great. I graduated in '36. It was four years up until that time. And so I would say, "Well, I'm going to take so much money to buy my lunches, then I've discussed with my mother and I'm going to save so much." And he said, "Now listen." He says, "You've got so much left, you can go buy you one or two paired socks, and mama and daddy won't have to buy those socks. See?" And you see this is a kind of thing. And another lady that taught me American democracy told me once that she said, "Come here." She says, "Now you going to graduate, aren't you?" I said, "Yes, I'm going to graduate." I said, "Yes, I'm going to graduate. She said, "you want a good record when you graduate, don't you? I said, "Yes." She said, "You planning to go to college?" I said, "I don't know about going to college." I said. | 0:31 |
| Gerson Stroud | She says, "You know why you said you aren't going to college? I said, "Why?" She says, "Because of that group that you started associating with." She says, "Before you started associating with this group that you're associating with now, you were in honor roll. You were with the very best of people. You were making money, and you had a real head start. She says, "You do what you think is best, but my advice to you is to just do some backtracking. See where you are now, where you've gone. Look at your grades." She says, "I know what you can do. I know what you have done for me. I know what you can do now. Do it." | 2:01 |
| Gerson Stroud | I switched. I changed, and I've had two or three of the boys from my class to tell me that she told them how she had told different individuals about doing this, what to do and things just like that. And gosh, there's so many of them. I had an industrial arts teacher in the eighth grade, and when he came into that industrial arts class, he said, "I want to teach. I want all of you all to understand that when you come in here, look at this room, see how well it's organized." He said, "Everything in here has a place, and we keep everything in its place. And if we do that, anytime we are looking for anything, we can find it. And this is what I expect of everybody in this class." He says, "Now, before each class ends, we are going to take 10 minutes to put this shop back in the same sheet that you found it when you came in here this morning." | 2:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | He drilled that in us. He'd drill that in us and it stayed. Then he would always tell us, "In here, if you make a toothpick, make it well." And almost every teacher, had some kind of influence on you, much or less. | 4:31 |
| Chris Stewart | When you graduated, you went to Washington D.C. With your father? | 4:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, I did. I at that time, because I couldn't get a job. Well, first of all, I really wanted to go to Howard University. | 5:01 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 5:18 |
| Gerson Stroud | And I wanted to go to Hampton Institute. I did. I wrote to all of them, and I wrote to Smith and no way for me to— They didn't give you scholarships then you get now. And there was no way for me to go to either Howard or Hampton. And my parents said that we just can't afford it. See, there was six of us and said, "We just can't afford it." So at that time, we said, "Well, we ain't going to Smith." My brother and I said, "We ain't going to Smith. So that's right here in Charlotte. We've been in Charlotte. Charlotte, all about lives. I just said, "No, we aren't going to Smith. We'll just work." And so when my father got that job up there, and Mr. Cole Lamber said that if he wanted to bring his boys, if his boys wanted to come, then we could come and we went up there. | 5:18 |
| Chris Stewart | How long did you spend up there? | 6:22 |
| Gerson Stroud | Stayed up there just about a year. A little more. | 6:32 |
| Chris Stewart | And what did you do while you worked there? | 6:34 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was a busboy in the dining room. And then before I left the dining room, I was waiting. | 6:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Were you working alongside your father? | 6:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. Under his direction. | 6:46 |
| Chris Stewart | What was that like to work underneath his direction? | 6:47 |
| Gerson Stroud | It was all right for me. It was all right for me because I understood my father. I knew what he wanted and I knew that he was going to be harder on me than anybody else. I knew that, but I gained a lot. I really did. | 6:54 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you gain? | 7:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | I learned how to work with people, how to get along with people, how to, well, I guess to portray a bit of humility that I may not have been able to portray otherwise. | 7:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. That sense of not going to Johnson C. Smith. | 7:57 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. Yes. Yes. See, so that happened. And then of course when I went to Washington, I met a lot of people. But what I did do while I was there, I had a cousin in Washington who was working at Cardozo Business High School, and my cousin said, "Listen." She says, "We have the post—graduate high school here." Said, "Now you can spend your time in a worthwhile way. You didn't have any business subjects at Second Ward, but you can take a course or one or two courses each semester while you're here." She says, "One thing, if you do that, you can meet somebody that's on your level." She said, "I don't want you to get out here and meet anything and lower yourself." | 8:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Are you talking about women? | 9:10 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes, yes, yes, yes. She says that you could just find yourself just taken up right away. And my uncle said the same thing. This uncle that I was seeing that my mother and those had helped, he said the same thing. He lived there and he said the same thing. So I started, I went to Cardozo Business High School for two semesters, and they did not have economics at Second Ward. Yeah. I took economics. I took an elementary course in marketing, and I took principles of business. I took those courses while I was there. | 9:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you find that you are taking those classes attracted a better class of women? | 10:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I at least saw them. I tell you, I found at that time that the— Well, they were— I was just out of high school and those were high school girls. And those high school girls had been in high school for three or four years, and most of them were already set. They already had their friends and what have you. But at least I was there. And no, I didn't find any changes as far as that part of it was concerned. | 10:22 |
| Chris Stewart | So you stayed there and you went to the Cardozo post—graduate for two semesters? | 11:12 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 11:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Then you came back to Charlotte? | 11:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 11:21 |
| Chris Stewart | And what did you do when you came back? | 11:22 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, my cousin in Washington influenced my brother and me to go to Johnson C. Smith. | 11:26 |
| Chris Stewart | How did your cousin do that? | 11:34 |
| Gerson Stroud | She had a lot of influence over us. She was the oldest cousin that we had. | 11:37 |
| Chris Stewart | What was her name. | 11:43 |
| Gerson Stroud | Harriet Short. She was teaching in Cardozo Business High School. To us, she was the epitome of success. She was the daughter of my mother's sister. And you see, they all grew up in Spartenburg, South Carolina. And they lived there until my grandfather died. And when my grandfather died, they broke up the home and the different sisters moved. And this Harriet was my oldest cousin, and she went to Boston with one of the other sisters who had already married and gone to Boston. And she could not afford to go to school in Boston. So she came to Washington, lived with my uncle, helped my uncle, and went to Miner Teachers College in Washington. The Washingtonians could go to Miner Teachers College at no cost, as long as they were citizens in residents of D.C. So she went there, she got her degree, and she got a job teaching. | 11:44 |
| Gerson Stroud | And well, we just looked up to her and when, shortly afterwards, she got married and she got a fine apartment and they had an automobile. And she was always a lady, in our opinion, always a lady, always gave us the right advice. And she was the one that said, "You've stayed out of school long enough. If you can't go to Hampton or you can go to Howard, go to Johnson C. Smith. You can go home, you can stay at home, you can go to and from the campus, you can pay the tuition." When I went to Johnson C. Smith, the tuition was $50 a semester and we had to pay for our books, but it wasn't easy to get $50. But when we came, we had the $50. And then my brother and I, we were able to work at Hotel Charlotte, serving parties at the Charlotte— | 13:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Y'all would pay for your schooling? | 14:38 |
| Gerson Stroud | At the Charlotte Country Club and at the Myers Park Country Club. And then after we were on campus for a while, we applied for a work aid scholarship, got a work aid scholarship, lived on a campus and enjoyed it. | 14:39 |
| Chris Stewart | You were also a member of a fraternity, weren't you? | 14:54 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was a member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity. | 14:56 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to ask you similar question that I asked your wife. Why did you join your Omega? | 15:00 |
| Gerson Stroud | I joined the Omega Psi Phi fraternity, first of all, because the friends that I had that went to school at Johnson C. Smith and away from Johnson C. Smith would always come back and they would talk about the Omega Psi Phi fraternity. And then when we would start talking about people who were Omegas, that they could give me role models right here in Charlotte. My own pastor was a member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity. The coach, our coaches at Second Ward were members of the Omega Psi Phi opportunity. The coach at West Charlotte was a member of the Omega Psi Phi opportunity. Just every doctor, with the exception of one in Charlotte, was a member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity. | 15:08 |
| Gerson Stroud | And then Daisy's father was a member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity. And when I would go to different programs every year, they would have an achievement week program. And these programs were held at the different churches in Charlotte and most times I would attend. And they were well planned and they were pertaining to the problems of the day. And they would have an outstanding speaker and they would just touch you. And when all of those members of the organization were present and they presented themselves and participated in the program, you got a feeling that this is something that I wanted to be a part of. And then when you got an opportunity to find out what the fraternity was about, manhood, public scholarship, and perseverance, then you would say that's the organization for me. | 16:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Were those the four sort of keywords of the organization? | 17:38 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. Yes. And the real motto is that friendship is essential to the soul. And it is. | 17:43 |
| Chris Stewart | So what did you get your degree? What did you major in at Johnson C. Smith? | 17:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | Economics. | 18:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Economics. And then what for you, when you graduated, what was next? | 18:04 |
| Gerson Stroud | Uncle Sam said, "Come here, boy." | 18:07 |
| Chris Stewart | That's when you went— | 18:08 |
| Gerson Stroud | [indistinct 00:18:15] come here. Said, "I'm ready for you." | 18:08 |
| Chris Stewart | That's right. '37 you graduated from— Okay, so that would make perfect sense. | 18:17 |
| Gerson Stroud | That's right. Right on. Right on into— And went straight into the Army. And then when I came out of the service [indistinct 00:18:32], Daisy and I married in 44. | 18:26 |
| Chris Stewart | So now I want— | 18:33 |
| Gerson Stroud | I was in service. | 18:33 |
| Chris Stewart | To get into this question of how you really did sort of meet, not just have acquaintance— | 18:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | Excuse me, for one moment [indistinct 00:18:47]. | 18:43 |
| Daisy Stroud | Experience that. | 18:47 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? How did you experience that? | 18:48 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, this Tate family that I was telling you about. Well, this Tate man was the illegitimate child of a man who was named was Mr. Tate, who was one of the most wealthy family. They had a store called Tate. So he was the father. So he was set up by his White father, and he married a lady who was very fair. And it was just like in the community by our doctors, when they would marry, they would marry a fair skin. So therefore their children were fair. But because of my friendship with the Tates, and I guess what they would consider my father's life, whatever position, then I was with this group. But I was the brownest one in the group. And on some occasions there would be parties that they could go to and I couldn't go. | 18:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | I had been at a house and spend the night with one of my friends and one of our friends who was in this group, they were fair. Her mother would come over and she would say, I'm going to take this one. And we'd all be there together. And she would take this one and she would not take me, really. And then the mother would say, "Well, no, if my daughter can't go, then— If she can't go, my daughter can't go." But that was an experience that I was shunned within my own group because of my color and also the granddaughter of Mr. Tate was one of my best friends, and she was very fair. And her father, Mr. Tate, had a barber shop. | 19:58 |
| Daisy Stroud | And so the White people— He would only take White people, but they would not want any reminder that he was not White. So it was okay for his granddaughter to bring lunch there, but not to be accompanied with me. And so I would go along with the granddaughter, but I would have to stop a block before we got to the barber shop. She would say— And her mother would tell her, she said, "Well, you tell Daisy to stop at such—" And I would stop, and then my friend would go to the block and deliver it and come back. And I would just stop like that. And that was because they couldn't afford to have me being there because it would remind them that he had some Black blood. So those are some experiences that you go through segregation [indistinct 00:21:53]. | 20:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember though, any experiences like those, I mean for either of you in high school or in college as well? Did this kind of thing also continue on when you were in high school and in college? | 21:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | You mean with my friends? | 22:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, just in the high school and in the college community? | 22:11 |
| Daisy Stroud | You're talking about race? | 22:19 |
| Chris Stewart | In college. | 22:20 |
| Gerson Stroud | You're talking about segregation within the race? Is that what you're talking about? | 22:21 |
| Daisy Stroud | Within the race? | 22:27 |
| Gerson Stroud | Within the race? I haven't had the experiences within the race that she has had. I haven't. | 22:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember anything like what you were just saying to happen in college or in high school or anything like that? | 22:38 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, the things in college is that in order for— Whenever we needed a queen to be a homecoming queen, then mostly they were chosen, the lighter were chosen. And then one year, just for spite, I think one of— They presented the name of a darker person who really was qualified as far as scholarship and personality and everything. So there was a division in the groups. And so for some reason, the group that supported this young lady was stronger than the other group. So she got to be the queen. And it wasn't any boos necessarily, but she was not made to feel welcome. | 22:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Who were the groups? When you say that there was a group of— | 23:39 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, the group that went to Sunday school. In college, we had a group that was like, we say quote, religious good, good, gone. And then the other group that was more regular college students. It was always a group that was always right, always good. Everything [indistinct 00:24:06], the goodies. Something like that. | 23:43 |
| Chris Stewart | So the goodies were supporting which candidate? | 24:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | The candidate that was not very— Did not fit the picture of the— | 24:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay, I'm going to turn the microphone so that we can are catch both of you and ask you how you— We know that you had met earlier because you knew your brother. Right? | 24:20 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. They were best friends. | 24:35 |
| Chris Stewart | But how did you come to know each other and date, court? | 24:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | [indistinct 00:24:48] Okay, you going to say it? | 24:48 |
| Gerson Stroud | You can say it. | 24:52 |
| Daisy Stroud | He gives me permission. Okay— | 24:54 |
| Chris Stewart | You don't have to answer if you don't want to. | 24:54 |
| Daisy Stroud | Okay. Well, no. When we went in high school together, as I said, he was friendly with my brother and he wasn't friendly with me. I was considered an upstart. I was young and everything quite different from my brother. My brother was very— Well, he was like the apple of my parents' eye. He was a very good student, excellent student. And well, in other words, it was like my parents would tell me that they wanted me to be like him. | 24:58 |
| Daisy Stroud | And so that was some resentment. Why should I want to be like him, whatever. So he sort of treated me to me like an upstart and whatever. So we got along fairly well. But anyhow, he was very friendly with Gerson, and they were in the same class, and they joined US clubs together, and they were just very, very good friends. In fact, Gerson was— My brother was killed by lightning. They were in the mountains working, and he and Gerson were walking side by side, a bolt of lightning came and killed my brother. | 25:29 |
| Daisy Stroud | Didn't bother Gerson. So anyhow, then after my brother died, then Gerson kept— He was still friendly with a friend of mine who grew up with him, another friend, a very good friend. And so when he'd come from the mountains, he'd work in still at Johnson C. Smith. And when I was here— See, I graduated and he stayed out and worked. Then I went on to school. So then I finished school before he did. So then I was at home and I wasn't working. I didn't have a job. And he was very friendly with this friend of mine. They were very friendly. So when he'd come from the mountains, he would visit her, and then she would tell me that maybe that we could all go around together. So anyhow, when we saw him, I just regarded him the same way through my brother. Well, I just thought he thought he was such a big shot. | 26:09 |
| Daisy Stroud | I said, well, whatever. So anyhow, when school opened at Johnson C. Smith, we found we had something in common, we like to play bridge. Right. So then he would come to my house and my friend would— And her husband, I think it was a boyfriend. | 27:11 |
| Gerson Stroud | Boyfriend. | 27:31 |
| Daisy Stroud | Her boyfriend. And so the four of us would play bridge. And that's the way we started. We just started playing bridge. And so, I don't know then. All of a sudden we just started playing bridge and bridge. And so then we just started associating with each other. | 27:33 |
| Chris Stewart | So how long did you court before you married? | 27:50 |
| Daisy Stroud | Let me see. That was in '42. | 27:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | '41. '41. | 28:01 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, I graduated in '41. | 28:01 |
| Gerson Stroud | That was in '41 when we started playing card. | 28:04 |
| Daisy Stroud | Oh yeah. Okay. In '41. | 28:04 |
| Gerson Stroud | But we got married in '44. | 28:08 |
| Chris Stewart | '44. And you had left to go into the army shortly after that, right? | 28:12 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes, yes. | 28:16 |
| Daisy Stroud | He was in the army when we were courting, and I was teaching at the time. And so when he had a furlough just before he was to go overseas, he called me and he told me he had a furlough. So I think within about— I don't know, we had 10 days or not, I think we arranged this wedding, a complete wedding within 10 days, invitations and everything. Where is our picture? We had a big wedding. I think I had about 10 bridesmaids and everything within 10 days. | 28:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Within 10 days? | 28:51 |
| Daisy Stroud | That's right. | 28:52 |
| Gerson Stroud | See— | 28:53 |
| Daisy Stroud | We took it down. | 28:53 |
| Gerson Stroud | We used to have it in here. | 28:53 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, we probably took it down. So we arranged this wedding. | 28:56 |
| Chris Stewart | How did you manage this? | 29:03 |
| Daisy Stroud | This. What I did was he told me— I told him to call me as soon as he got the word. And he called me and I called my mother. So we went and got the invitations printed. I think the people had about two days, two or three days notice, and we got the gowns and we had a big wedding. A big wedding within 10 days. Right? | 29:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Absolutely amazing. How did you propose? | 29:24 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, he would tell me all the time, whenever you are ready to get married, just let me know. That's what he said, "Whenever you're ready, just let me know." | 29:29 |
| Chris Stewart | And when were you ready? How did you come to the decision? | 29:40 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, when he called me and told me he was on the furlough, I said, "Okay, [indistinct 00:29:49] then." So I think we were together. We had a honeymoon of five days. | 29:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | Monday. | 29:57 |
| Daisy Stroud | To Friday. | 29:59 |
| Gerson Stroud | Monday night. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. | 29:59 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, Friday. | 30:05 |
| Gerson Stroud | Friday. | 30:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Friday. So that was five days we had our honeymoon, and then he left. And I didn't see him again for— | 30:07 |
| Gerson Stroud | December the 31st, 1945. | 30:19 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. I didn't see him again for— It's been 18 months, something like that. So I married him, it was five days, and then 18 months, separation. | 30:21 |
| Chris Stewart | What was that like? | 30:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | The separation? Well, I think what helped a lot, it was during the war, and then I was busy. There was a lot of activity going on, and I still went to the USO, visited around. And so it's just like a whole lot of, well, just corresponding and [indistinct 00:31:03]. | 30:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you do a lot of corresponding back and forth then? | 31:03 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 31:05 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. We had to correspond a whole lot back and forth. So he came on back. | 31:06 |
| Chris Stewart | So when you came back, did you settle here in Charlotte then? | 31:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 31:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yes. | 31:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Where in Charlotte did you settle? | 31:20 |
| Daisy Stroud | Where did we live? At first, we lived with my parents on Oakland Avenue. Then we lived with my sister. | 31:22 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. And then it was— At that time, we had our first child, and the child was a stillbirth. And it was, then I decided to go back to school. And right then I went back and went to University of Illinois, and she came to the University of Illinois. And we stayed there until I completed my master's degree. And I came back to Charlotte, and I first came back to Charlotte, opened a small business, an automatic laundry, but I wasn't satisfied with it. And right after I came back, I was asked to teach at Johnson C. Smith, and I went to Johnson C. Smith. And I worked one year. And the position opened at— Well, I talked to the superintendent about working for the Charlotte— | 31:30 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I really wanted to go to work for junior college, which was just opening. And he told me that he already had a director for the college, but that he had an opening for a job with Charlotte High School. And he felt it with my qualifications that I could do that job. But at the same time, I could teach business subjects at junior college in the evenings. Of course, when I went to accept those two jobs, I doubled my pay. And I did that for five years. And then when they built York Road Junior High School, I was the first principal for that school. And I stayed there for 14 years. And from there I went to West Charlotte as principal and from there down to the education center. And I worked until I retired. | 32:32 |
| Chris Stewart | I'd like to ask both of you because you're both in education, and you both talked a lot about your own teachers, and I'd like to talk to you about your philosophy of teaching and your own philosophy of education, and perhaps where that came from, where you're drawing your philosophy, your approach to education from? | 33:36 |
| Daisy Stroud | You are saying— Are you asking why I chose it or my approach? I don't quite understand the question. | 34:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, I guess it's both those questions. Yes. Why you chose to go into education and what your approach is. What's your philosophy of teaching is? | 34:12 |
| Daisy Stroud | Well, I chose to go into education because I just have a desire to help someone, to learn something. I just have a deep desire to help. I think the excitement of it is the result of it. It's a type job that you can write in— You can see you a handwork, you can experience it, and you go there and they hear these minds that you work with. And when it happens, it's just like— I guess it's a man building a house. You can see it. And that's what it is most gratifying job, I think that you can have. | 34:27 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, I didn't really choose education when I was in college. My choice was law. And when I came out of service, I don't know, I just felt like that the time that I had reserved for law had been spent. And I went to the University of Illinois and majored in marketing and minored in economics. And I really wanted to go into the field of marketing. I really did it, and you have to understand this a little better. At that time, Blacks could not attend any university in North Carolina. And so I had to apply to go to universities that would admit me. And the first university that I was admitted to was the Ohio State University. But I was told that in order to go there, that you would have to have a residence there before you could come. And they wanted me to come there and establish residency and then go. | 35:28 |
| Gerson Stroud | But I thought that that was too uncertain. I didn't have a lot of money just being a soldier and having come out, and I just stayed here because my wife was pregnant. And then I was admitted to the University of Illinois, and they had housing for me. So I went right on to the University of Illinois, and I went into marketing as a major and took economics as a minor. And so I really felt like and wanted to go into marketing. In the Department of Marketing, when I was a student, there were only two of us. Two Blacks in the College of Marketing. And being in a large, predominantly White school, everything is geared towards the majority and not the minority. And all of the classes that I visited and attended, they always talked about in May, June, April, all of the representatives from the different companies would be here to interview. | 37:06 |
| Gerson Stroud | LG [indistinct 00:38:57] Company, Armstrong Cork, New York Life Insurance Company, Hartford Life Insurance Company. And I can remember some of my professors who were just outstanding in their fields of— P. D. Converse, who was one of the leading experts in the field of marketing. And he wrote this book on elements of marketing and Converse and Hugley. Hugley was his as that was one of the assistants. And he too wrote one of the books that we used. And Frank Beach was the professor of salesmanship. And Frank Beach was a million dollar producer for approximately 10 years for— I believe it was Hartford, one of the companies in Connecticut. | 38:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | And all the people in the department with whom I studied and worked, had these kind of backgrounds. They talked about the opportunities and the money that he made and the people who would come there for interviews and interviews. And when the people came there for interviews, they would politely say that, I believe that you would do better with X, Y, Z company, that maybe Supreme Liberty Life Insurance Company in Chicago could really use your intellect, your background, your experiences. And so I continued to get this. And it was then that I decided to come back to Charlotte. And when I got here and the dean of the institution asked me— Well, it was after school had started, that the person who was working in the department got sick and they didn't have anybody to fill his place. He asked me if I would come and take those classes. | 40:04 |
| Gerson Stroud | And I said yes, because a lot of college professors never had education. They never had any education whatsoever. So I went to Smith and took those classes that they wanted taught. And I found some of the most interesting students in some of those classes. Really, they taught me, I was just a guidance person working with them. And I became so interested in their growth and development that when I read about they're opening Carver College, I said, "Well, this is something that I really would like to do." | 41:18 |
| Gerson Stroud | And I would want to go over there to see what my prospects would be. And that's when I met Dr. Elmer H. Garinger, who was superintendent of the Charlotte Mecklenburg schools. And Dr. Garinger, I guess he was impressed with me. And I know I was impressed with Dr. Garinger. And Dr. Garinger told me, at the time that they had already had chosen the executive director for Carver College, but he told me about a program that they had at West Charlotte that they were trying to open, and that was distributive education and see that marketing and economics that I had qualified me. | 42:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | So he said that they hadn't been able to find anybody that could do that. Right. So he was wondering if I would be interested in doing that and working in the evenings at Carver College. And I told him, "Most assuredly." And that's when he told me that I would need to go— I could not go to Greensboro, UNC Greensboro. That's where they taught the education necessary for what I needed to do. And I could not go to the University of North Carolina. That's where they also taught it. | 43:16 |
| Gerson Stroud | They also taught it at the University of Virginia. And I could not go there. So there were two places where I could go, and that was New York University and Teachers College, Columbia University. So I think New York University was the first one to admit me. So I applied and went there. And that's when I went into education. And as a result of the experiences that I had had at Johnson C. Smith in teaching, that's when I really felt like that this is where I needed to be and this is what I wanted to do. | 44:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you take your family up to New York? | 44:42 |
| Gerson Stroud | No, I couldn't afford to do that. | 44:44 |
| Chris Stewart | So you just went up? | 44:46 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 44:46 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you gone? | 44:48 |
| Gerson Stroud | Well, see, I did this during the summers. I went for the— | 44:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Teaching the two jobs during the— | 44:54 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yes. | 44:55 |
| Daisy Stroud | In summer school. | 44:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Yes. And where were you teaching? Were you teaching at this time [indistinct 00:45:02] | 44:59 |
| Daisy Stroud | No, I didn't start teaching until after my children were born. So that was in '56. So I was just at home while he was away. | 45:03 |
| Chris Stewart | When were your children born, did you say? | 45:18 |
| Daisy Stroud | First child was born. I had a stillbirth in '46, and then my son was born in '48. My son was born in Illinois. He was in school. | 45:20 |
| Chris Stewart | So did you have children who went to Second Ward? | 45:37 |
| Gerson Stroud | No, our children all went to West Charlotte. | 45:40 |
| Chris Stewart | West Charlotte? | 45:41 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah. | 45:41 |
| Chris Stewart | So how was this having Second Ward alumnus with children who went to West Charlotte? I've heard about this rivalry between the two schools. | 45:47 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah, but see, he was principal when— He was my daughter's principal. | 45:55 |
| Gerson Stroud | And son too. | 45:58 |
| Daisy Stroud | Yeah. And son. Principal. That wasn't good. Well, my son says that it wasn't good. | 45:58 |
| Gerson Stroud | Yeah, that's right. And I agree. I agree. I said, "If I had to do it again, I would strongly urge that they attend another school." | 46:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Why is that? | 46:25 |
| Gerson Stroud | There is always a feeling on the part of the child that he cannot be normal or average, that he cannot be himself. That he is always considered to be the principal's boy, and he's got to conform to the standard— | 46:33 |
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