Florenza Grant interview recording, 1993 June 27

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Sonya Ramsey	Okay Mrs. Grant, could you describe the area where you grew up?	0:05
Florenza Moore Grant	It was a little smaller. Well it was a farm and it was back off from the paved surfaces and so forth. 'Cause the place was called Lamberson after the man who owned all the land. His name was something or other Lamberson.	0:11
Sonya Ramsey	Was that in North Carolina?	0:32
Florenza Moore Grant	In North Carolina. In Northampton County, in Rich Square.	0:35
Sonya Ramsey	How many brothers and sisters do you have?	0:43
Florenza Moore Grant	It was 11 of us.	0:49
Sonya Ramsey	11.	0:49
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. Do I have?	0:49
Sonya Ramsey	Well, that's fine. Just when you were young. Okay. When you were growing up, what did your parents do for a living?	0:51
Florenza Moore Grant	Farm, share crop.	1:00
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. What kind of crops did they weigh?	1:01
Florenza Moore Grant	Corn, peanuts, cotton and soybean.	1:04
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. Do you remember the arrangement that your parents had to make with the landowner where your parents worked about payments and things like that?	1:09
Florenza Moore Grant	The owner just got half of the crop income. In other words, we worked one day for us and one day for him. That's what it boiled down to.	1:20
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. Who made the decisions about money in your family?	1:32
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, they were pretty much together on that. My mother and father was pretty much together on that.	1:38
Sonya Ramsey	Could you describe what was a typical day for working on the farm for me so we can learn what a day was like back then?	1:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, frankly, we enjoyed it. The work was hard and the sun was hot. But it was a lot of us, and we kept up something all the time. And that's the way we got through it. And my father, he would task us. And everything we'd do over that he would pay us. If it wasn't but 50 cent. That was a lot of money back then to us.	1:59
Sonya Ramsey	You said you kept up something going. What kind of things did you do to keep going?	2:29
Florenza Moore Grant	Fighting, some of that. Pick up a clod of dirt and throw it. Just get something started. We enjoyed it. We enjoyed it.	2:32
Sonya Ramsey	What kind of games did you play as a child?	2:40
Florenza Moore Grant	Hopscotch and we played a lot of ball. And we had swings. We had a lot of trees in the lot, in the lot part. And we had swings. We had three or four swings 'cause it was a lot of us. And my mother's mother died. And she reared two of her sisters and brothers. So they were older than my sisters and brothers. And so we were big, happy family. Poor, but happy.	2:43
Sonya Ramsey	What were the holidays like?	3:19
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, Christmas and Easter were the biggest holidays. Well Thanksgiving was—'Cause they were—always had company from North, and good food. My mama was a very good cook. And I'm proud to say that even though we were poor and struggling, I've never been hungry. My mother cooked three square meals a day and sometime we'd have white potatoes twice a day. Fixed in different—Fried one way and stewed in other. But we were never hungry.	3:21
Sonya Ramsey	You said you had relatives or friends come from the North. Were they family members that had migrated from the North and they just came back to visit?	3:55
Florenza Moore Grant	They come back to visit. Come back to visit. And used to make fun of us because we didn't—Not being cruel but made fun of us because we didn't know a lot of things about the city.	4:02
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:04:16] In the country.	4:15
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Yeah. But when my children came along, I taught them, you have what you know in your environment and they have what they know.	4:17
Florenza Moore Grant	So Gloria, I have to cite this—Gloria, my youngest. The one of the little city cousins said, "You don't know? And you have never been so and so and so." Gloria said, "Mama, can we pick the strawberries?" I said, "Yeah, go pick some strawberries." So when they got out there, the city kids, they just would marvel at these little red berries being on these green vines. And one of them saw toad frog, and they had a fit, "Oh oh oh!" So Gloria went there and said, "What's the matter?" Said, "Toad frog." Gloria reached down and picked up a little frog. "Ain't nothing but a toad frog." So I said, then you see—She had something on them. That is recorded in mind 'cause she got them back good. There was a lot of things that she had over them.	4:27
Sonya Ramsey	You said—Did your family have a garden too aside from working too?	5:16
Florenza Moore Grant	A garden?	5:20
Sonya Ramsey	Mm-hmm.	5:21
Florenza Moore Grant	Oh yeah.	5:21
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. What kind of vegetables did you grow?	5:25
Florenza Moore Grant	Greens, cabbage, string beans, lima beans, corn, all of the basic. We didn't grow beets. We grew beets. But we didn't grow things like a broccoli and stuff like that. 'Cause I never ate any broccoli until I got married. And my father reared pork and beef to sustain us through the year.	5:25
Sonya Ramsey	But did you have to go shopping for groceries?	5:55
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, maybe like meal or flour or sugar, something like that. Most of the time, people go to the mill and take corn and exchange the corn for—They would grind his to—for some corn.	5:59
Sonya Ramsey	Do you have to go shopping for clothes, things like that?	6:12
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. About twice a year, except for my older sister. She had bad feet. And shoes—they had to buy her shoes often and special-made shoes and my sister and I under her were a little bit jealous of that. But after I got grown, I said, well, she had a handicap and glad we didn't have that one.	6:15
Sonya Ramsey	Did you sew clothes? Did your mom sew your clothes?	6:36
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes indeed. She could look at a picture and take a piece of newspaper and cut out the pattern. And that was one thing that helped us along. Well, coming back, we were fair skinned. And all us had saw what people refer to as good hair. But I taught my little granddaughter, there is no bad hair. Hair covers your head. My other granddaughter when she was six years old, asked me, said, "Lily, have I got bad hair?" I said, "No. Who told you you had bad hair?" They were twins. Little boy and little girl. Little boys have a soft like mine, and little girls was a little tough. And they would tease her at school. So yeah, we would certainly have some for Easter and Christmas shopping, new clothes, they had new clothes. But as I said, my momma made most of our clothes. And I followed through. I used to make all my kids clothes, even my boys' suits when they were small.	6:40
Sonya Ramsey	Growing up, did your parents ever tell you things on how to act in front of White people when you were a child?	7:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mmm. My daddy, I remember this vividly, and I'm so proud of him. I thought he was kind of stern sometime 'cause he did believe in using the strap on you if you don't behave, didn't behave. And most of the time, we needed the strap. (laughs) And we used to have family prayer every Sunday morning. And I remember one morning my—My youngest brother was inclined to the ministry from a little bitty boy, but he passed when he was 26. And my brother next to me, he would follow me anywhere.	7:47
Florenza Moore Grant	And that morning, we were having family prayer. And when my daddy was praying, my younger brother who wanted to be a minister was saying amen at the proper places and "Go on Daddy" and so on, so and so. And my other brother was saying, "Amen! That's right!" You know, making fun. When my father got through with the morning worship, he called him. He said, "Come on, go with me around here." And he tore a limb off of the elm tree that's real limber, you know. And he tore him up. But until the day he asked why could the other brother say something and he couldn't. I said, "'Cause you were playing." The other boy was just as sincere as he could be.	8:28
Florenza Moore Grant	And we worked in the—I had a lot of fun growing up. I'll just be frank with you. As I said, we were poor, and we made our own fun.	9:13
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. Okay. I wanted to ask—	9:22
Florenza Moore Grant	I know what I started saying. You asked the question, didn't you? That, were we taught to—	9:22
Sonya Ramsey	—about how to act around White people.	9:29
Florenza Moore Grant	Well I'll say this, and this ought to tell you. My dad is—The guy that owned the land, White guy that owned the land, came in the lot one day. We had a big lot and he told him, said, "Hey Henry." Said, " Henry, you better go out there and get that hay in 'cause it's going to rain." He said, "I tell you Captain Bonus." Said, "You go out there and get your hay. And I'll let my hay. I get my hay when I get ready." He talked back to him. And so we were inclined to be called a little bit [indistinct 00:10:10]. And then some of the kids would say that we spoke out because we were yellow and stuff like that. And I was so glad the day that I learned what an issue was. See they would slur it. "Yo, yellow issue." And I came to find out we were issues. They didn't know what to do with people that—our complexion. Yeah, yeah.	9:29
Sonya Ramsey	Growing up, did you feel like it was hard to fit in with friends and family?	10:35
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mmm. My best friends, we had other sharecroppers in that area. It was about seven houses back off. It wasn't a paved road or nothing. But all my little friends were real Black, and thought well of me. Taking up time with them, I sensed that. I didn't know what it was about me. Because I was just as poor as they were. And one of the best friends I had in high school was a Black girl with hair out like that and had a damaged eye. And she was top in class, and I was next one graduated from high school. So, no. I never had no time, no problem getting along with.	10:40
Sonya Ramsey	I need to ask you. You mentioned your grandparents. Do you have any remembrances of your grandparents?	11:35
Florenza Moore Grant	My grandfather was a White man on my mother's side. And he was respected as a White man. But we don't particularly talk about that. And my grandmother was—I think she had right much Indian blood in her. She was about your complexion, but she had a softer grade of hair than yours. And my grandfather was—The White people respected him. And he was nasty like White folks, you know, hawk and spit anywhere. White folks would do that right on your foot or anywhere. And grandpa—But his wife died when they were young. And that's why my daddy ended up with—Mom and Daddy ended up with raising the four younger children. So I have aunt and uncle that were just sisters and brothers that we knew no different.	11:40
Sonya Ramsey	So you had 11 brothers and sisters and the other aunt and uncle all in the same home?	12:42
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm.	12:44
Sonya Ramsey	What was your home like?	12:46
Florenza Moore Grant	Well it was a two-story house. And had four bedrooms. Had to put a bed in the living room after—We had living room furniture in there, but we had to put a bed in there.	12:47
Sonya Ramsey	Did you have any chores to do around the home?	13:06
Florenza Moore Grant	Chores?	13:08
Sonya Ramsey	What kind of things?	13:09
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Bringing the wood and I had to scrub the back porch and the front porch once a week. And my sister and I, Betty, had to wash all the dishes. And it was a lot of people. I had a good growing up. I think back over that a lot. We were lucky that way. But my father didn't take nothing off of—My father got in little trouble one time about some driving—He was selling his peanuts and he was a good farmer. And he was stopped off to get him a drink. And so while he was in there, got a beer. And they caught him. But see, the White folk were jealous of the fact that he had all that crop. He was good farmer. And so they would watch him as he would bring those truckloads of peanuts out to the market. They were right on him. Just stay right on him. Anyway, they arrested him and had to go to court and all.	13:10
Sonya Ramsey	What did they say they arrested him for?	14:15
Florenza Moore Grant	For drunk driving. And he had bought a soda. When he went out, he bought a beer. But they wanted him badly. So anyway, when he had to go to court, he had so many people behind, White and Black give him a good name. He was a church man. And so the jury say, "Yeah. But you just a good man with a whole lot of intelligent children that was caught driving drunk." So that didn't help any. But he wasn't drunk. But yeah. As I said again, we were poor but we had a good home environment.	14:20
Sonya Ramsey	What happened to your father after that? Did he have to go to jail?	15:03
Florenza Moore Grant	No, no, no, no.	15:09
Sonya Ramsey	I wanted ask, did the man that owned your land, did he ever try to cheat your parents?	15:10
Florenza Moore Grant	No. He knew better than that. 'Cause my daddy wouldn't allow that. He wouldn't allow that. My daddy came off a good start. And my mother did too. I think my grandfather, my mother's father, had German.	15:15
Sonya Ramsey	Was your parents able to get a education? Was there education available to them when they were growing up?	15:26
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, like I said, my grandfather was well off, my mother's father. And his children didn't feel that they had to go to school. But my mother could write and read. My daddy could pronounce any word in the dictionary. And I think he didn't get no further than seventh grade. And my older brothers didn't ever get no further than the ninth grade. But all the rest of us finished high school and went on to college. Most of them went to—I didn't go to college. I had scholarships to two college.	15:35
Sonya Ramsey	I wanted to ask, what kind of values did your parents instill in you in growing up?	16:03
Florenza Moore Grant	Well my daddy believed that if you want something, you have to work for it. And you were as good as anybody else. That was another thing that I admired him about. And I think maybe he was smarter than my mother, but my mother could read just as well as he could. And her handwriting was beautiful. But Mom and them was kind of writ up, kind of aristocratic.	16:10
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. I wanted to ask you some questions about elementary school. Do you have any remembrances of elementary school that you like to share? Any special teachers that you like to talk about?	16:43
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't think too much about elementary school.	17:01
Sonya Ramsey	You had mentioned earlier about the people riding—teasing you about your hair color?	17:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. This was in elementary school. Yes. And at that time, we had outdoor toilets. And didn't have indoor toilets. And just about every time I'd go to—They would have something. Well, just walls. Not only about me, but I was one of them. And as I said, my hair was blonde, and I was teased a lot by that. And I was picked at a lot by my teeth rotting. And the older kids would ask me, "What you done with them rotting teeth." But I'd fight back. I said, "From eating so much ice cream." And my mama would buy a couple of cones of ice cream and all of us lick off. (laughs) But I would fight back. But it hurt. It hurt. It hurt.	17:13
Sonya Ramsey	How were you treated by your teachers?	18:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Fine, because my daddy had a say so in hiring teachers.	18:09
Sonya Ramsey	Oh he did?	18:14
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm.	18:16
Sonya Ramsey	In what way?	18:16
Florenza Moore Grant	Chose, I mean who—they respected him. See my daddy, he didn't let us play around and stuff. We had to get our lesson and stuff like that. And if we came home and told something that had happened to us bad, we got a whipping at home. So we were very careful not to tell him. But I don't remember any—That was the worst experience. About my hair and my teeth. But when I got into sixth grade, by that time, I had arrived on my own.	18:20
Sonya Ramsey	What do you mean by that?	18:49
Florenza Moore Grant	I knew who I was. And I was not afraid and I was not bothered by being called an issue. And through high school, I had a good remembrance from high school. I was on the debating team. I was in the drummers. And when I was in the seventh grade, we went up against about five other schools. And I had to come home on the car with the older person that was driving. And all the rest of them, the cast stayed there. 'Cause I was the youngest. The rest of them were teenagers high school students.	18:52
Florenza Moore Grant	And when they had the ratings, I won first place in acting. And then all of them were felt bad because they wanted to show me off and all that stuff. So yeah. My daddy, he didn't play around us about school.	19:36
Florenza Moore Grant	And many days, when I was 13—In planting time, that was my two older brothers got married. Many days, my sister, Betty, and I would have to stay home a half a day.	19:53
Sonya Ramsey	I was going to ask about that. [indistinct 00:20:08].	20:06
Florenza Moore Grant	Took soda fertilizer with the mule pulling the apparatus, and harrowed off it. Like they list up the rows like that. Had a plow that had forks in it, come along and harrow it off so you could put the plant. But he would let us go half days. 'Cause he believed in education.	20:08
Sonya Ramsey	How did you catch up with the other students? Or did they have to stay home too and work on their farm?	20:30
Florenza Moore Grant	Well yeah they had—And then two back there then, they would give a harvest, six weeks harvest out that the kids could work on a farm, school would be out. Had that break in there.	20:34
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. So how long was the school term? When did it start and when did it end?	20:47
Florenza Moore Grant	I think back then when I was a kid, it would start in September and end—I'm not sure on that.	20:55
Sonya Ramsey	That's fine.	21:04
Florenza Moore Grant	But it seemed like they didn't have a eight or nine months at that time. I'm not sure on that. I'm not sure on that.	21:08
Sonya Ramsey	You said you had to stay home. How did you catch up with the school? Did you still have the same schoolwork requirements or did they lessen—	21:13
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. But we had to stay out if we was sick or something like that, [indistinct 00:21:27] lesson in. 'Cause the teachers were tight about that back then. They were worried to death and bogged down and all. So they brought that stuff to school. But like I said, all of us got along pretty good in school because, as I said, well, my daddy had some say so in the hiring and firing of teachers.	21:24
Sonya Ramsey	How did you get to and from school?	21:44
Florenza Moore Grant	Walked.	21:46
Sonya Ramsey	Walked. Okay.	21:46
Florenza Moore Grant	And they let the White kids out at the same time they let the Black ones out. The Black ones was walking and White ones was on buses. And we walked a good three and a half to four miles one way. Cold.	21:52
Sonya Ramsey	Long way.	22:06
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes ma'am. Cold, snow, whatever. Most of the time, my daddy would—If it snowed or something like that, he would send for us or come get us to coming back home. But we never got—Well like I said, we were smart, you know. So a day or two out of school didn't block us. But the teachers would make you sit in, you know, if you couldn't come.	22:06
Sonya Ramsey	Did they make you tired walking so far to and from school?	22:34
Florenza Moore Grant	No, it'd be a game of us, and it was a lot of fun. All the kids back there in that seven houses, we would walk school together and come back together. And from one thing to the other, picking at each other, throwing each other's books down, stuff like that. We got along fine.	22:38
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. I wanted to ask about high school. What was courting or dating like during high school? Could you date during that time? Is that where you met your husband? Oh okay. Okay. How did you meet him?	22:58
Florenza Moore Grant	In a play. And they had a bus. They rode the bus 'cause they lived out of another section. They didn't go no higher than the seventh grade. And when he came up to our school, he had to come there to sign up for the eighth grade. And he start picking at me. But he was picking at me to get to my sister. So that year, we were in eighth grade. We were in a play together. And where, Grandma Pulls The String, I believe is the name of it. And he had to kiss me and I said, "I like that and you can do it again." And he really kissed me that time.	23:10
Florenza Moore Grant	And so I had competition. I had a first cousin and he liked my sister and he was a real clean fella. But he never had creases in his pants. And that was neat. Had clean hands and stuff like that. And I'm funny about hands. So he was asking me about my first cousin. She was older than he was. But she was a pretty girl, of course had a beautiful complexion, beautiful shape. He had me cloaking for her. And he told me one day. Said, "How come I can't come to your house?" So I think Mama started letting me have company—at that time, 11th grade as far as they went in—and she started let me have company when I was in ninth grade under her protection.	23:56
Sonya Ramsey	What did that mean, having company? What does that mean?	25:02
Florenza Moore Grant	Dating. Boyfriend coming. Yeah.	25:02
Sonya Ramsey	Did you go out together?	25:02
Florenza Moore Grant	Well he wasn't able to take me out. He was reared real strict and he was the youngest. And his daddy died when he was six years old. His mother married again. But he had real nice stepfather. But she was real tight. And I'm proud to say when she died, everything that she had was paid for and all. She didn't owe nobody nothing. So somebody had to stop along the way. So he didn't have—what I start to say, I said, better to say this. He didn't have monies to take me.	25:04
Sonya Ramsey	Were there places for young Blacks to go to?	25:33
Florenza Moore Grant	Nowhere but to the movie or to a ballgame or something like that.	25:38
Sonya Ramsey	And the movie, was it segregated?	25:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Black folks sit upstairs, and the White folks down.	25:43
Sonya Ramsey	So you got him over your first cousin and your sister? (laughs)	25:49
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, but I was real—But he would pick at me. He would pick at me. But he said that he didn't go for me because one of his dear friends, a minister son, a minister—They thought that his family thought a lot of—minister's son was picking after me. And that's why he stood off. But he could date me when I was in ninth grade. But I didn't have no [indistinct 00:26:25] in the eighth grade. (laughs) All the girls were—you know, the new guy coming in.	25:54
Sonya Ramsey	What did your first cousin and your sister think about when he started dating you?	26:31
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, we lived a long way from school. And I told you we had to walk. And we didn't get a chance to do the boys' beds in the morning. So we had to do that in the afternoon when we'd get back home. And my son, I'd be on one side of the bed, she on the other fixing the covers. And she said, "Flo." Said, "What's that tall brown-skinned boy name in your class?" Said, "He's a cute little boy." And I said, "He pick at me." I said, "Yeah, he picks at me too." (laughs) But I want him anyhow. Told my first cousin and my sister. But all the girls was after him. But he was real clean, as I said, and that took my—but he didn't have no creases in his pants. (laughs)	26:35
Sonya Ramsey	How long did you date before your marriage?	27:27
Florenza Moore Grant	We got married—together finish high school. I had scholarships to college.	27:32
Sonya Ramsey	What schools did you have scholarships?	27:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Central, for one. And, Hampton Institute.	27:43
Sonya Ramsey	But you decided to get married instead?	27:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Well I would've gone to college if he hadn't been on scene. But he said if I went to college, I'd have to go to Hampton. 'Cause he lived in Newport News at the time. His daddy, his mama had to move away on the count of her health. And they would go back home, come back home, periodically. Nobody lived in the home house. But they'd go back home periodically. And I think I made a good choice. We get on each other's nerves right there and now, getting older. (laughs)	27:51
Sonya Ramsey	Do you remember, what was your wedding like?	28:21
Florenza Moore Grant	On a Saturday, my mama bought me a special suit, got married on the way to Newport News in a minister's home. So I didn't have no big wedding, nothing like that.	28:27
Sonya Ramsey	So after you were married, you moved to Newport News?	28:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	28:52
Sonya Ramsey	What did you do after that?	28:53
Florenza Moore Grant	Well we lived in a house with his parents because of his mother was ill and his daddy couldn't work on count of his age, his stepfather. And so he lived with them so he could help them with the rent and stuff like that.	28:58
Sonya Ramsey	Were you homesick? Did you miss your family?	29:16
Florenza Moore Grant	No, because I had relatives in Newport News, my aunts and stuff like them.	29:19
Sonya Ramsey	So did you went to work outside the home when you got married?	29:23
Florenza Moore Grant	No. All the work I've done was self employed since we've been.	29:29
Sonya Ramsey	And what did your husband do when he first got married? What job did he have?	29:33
Florenza Moore Grant	Worked in a restaurant.	29:38
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. What kind of job work did he do there?	29:40
Florenza Moore Grant	Worked in the kitchen, probably washing dishes. But now he was not doing that when we got married. He worked in the shipyard.	29:45
Sonya Ramsey	And what did he do there in the shipyard?	29:50
Florenza Moore Grant	I can't think of what—But he was in the painting department. I know that.	29:59
Sonya Ramsey	Did those jobs like that working outside pay better? Public work, I guess, paid better than farming, you think?	30:05
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes. Yes, yes. Especially if you were farming sharecrop.	30:13
Sonya Ramsey	So this is a step up for you and your husband.	30:18
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. But when I didn't like the city. But I never complained. And my children, I had a bad pregnancy with my first child. And my doctor was Black. And he just had a bad situation with the lady who's in the change that was pregnant. And she went into vertigo's and broke her arm and bit her tongue, stuff like that. And I had the same problem and he didn't want to risk me with that. And I begged him so hard. So my first child was premature. But she's alive and well. And she has her oldest daughter. She was at my house. She might stop by here if she comes out.	30:22
Sonya Ramsey	You said you didn't like the city. Why didn't you like the city?	31:24
Florenza Moore Grant	Because I was raised in wide open spaces. And the kids just tease us by where we lived. But I enjoyed it. And in the summertime, they'd come back there to get fruit in the fall to get the grapes and things like that. See I didn't care about living on the highway in town. It didn't bother me at all. I live back now, but they got good roads and stuff now. I live right back there on the river. But it was my choosing.	31:27
Sonya Ramsey	So for your first years when you marriage, how long were you married before you started having your own family and children?	31:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Within the first year.	32:06
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. Got it. So many of years for—how many children do you have?	32:09
Florenza Moore Grant	I have five.	32:11
Sonya Ramsey	Five.	32:11
Florenza Moore Grant	And I have reared eight.	32:13
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. So did you and your husband, when you were raising your children, belong to any organizations or any groups in Newport News?	32:14
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, we didn't stay in Newport News that long. My kids were not in school when I left Newport New. My oldest little girl started the year that we came here and we—her—	32:26
Sonya Ramsey	Then you decided to move back here?	32:36
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. We bought the little farm that we live on and it was a little small house. And as the years passed, we added a little more to it. My children are not quite two years apart. Almost two years apart.	32:38
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. I wanted to go back and ask you how you and your husband saved enough, or did you get a loan to buy your farm?	32:58
Florenza Moore Grant	Got a loan to buy it.	33:05
Sonya Ramsey	Was that a part of the resettlement project?	33:06
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	33:08
Sonya Ramsey	How did you first hear about the project, become involved with it?	33:09
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, my brother, my oldest brother, he was a good farmer and he was well established. And he bought land over here. And because when we first left Newport News, I was at my mother's home until we could find somewhere to live. In the meantime, he was telling us about all the good bricks over here, my brother. So that's how we found it.	33:13
Sonya Ramsey	Did you have to do an application form?	33:38
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes. Yes. And they did everything in the world they could to keep you from getting it.	33:40
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah. What kind of thing did they do?	33:44
Florenza Moore Grant	Well they had a Black man that was supposed to be over us, but he was ruled by a White man. And did what? And we are not all that well liked in nowhere we go. But the people can't do without us. And we have a given family and we have helped up a lot of people, hurting ourselves I guess. But my motto, if I can help somebody as I travel along, then my living was not in vain.	33:49
Sonya Ramsey	So after you and your husband bought the farm, how did your life change from moving back here from—	34:19
Florenza Moore Grant	Hard work. Hard work.	34:26
Sonya Ramsey	And your children were little?	34:29
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	34:31
Sonya Ramsey	So who helped you and your husband on the farm?	34:32
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, we had to hire a hand. And in the summertime, would hire, people didn't have nothing to do around here. We hire them to do the hoeing, you know, chopping and stuff. And it was not easy on me because we had a van that I would haul people to the field, and had to make sure that they had water and stuff. And Black folks don't like to work for Black folks.	34:34
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. If there was any problems with that. Now since y'all were now the landowner, how did you work with the people that worked with you? Did you have problems with them? Did they ever not want to do anything?	34:54
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, we've always been ostracized. And like I said again—I'll never forget when we first moved over here, we didn't have no transportation. And my brother helped my husband to get an old pair of cheap mules. And that's what we came over here with, those two mules and a friend of ours who was very fond of my children. Gave him a sow pig, which started us off with our hogs.	35:09
Sonya Ramsey	That was what you started off with your hogs?	35:43
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. And my brother would say, "I'm so scared. I'm so scared that old mule going to fall on Matthew and kill him?" That's how slow the mules were. But that's what we started out with. But I was happy. And no kind of work come—	35:44
Florenza Moore Grant	One year, my husband was a barber too, by trade. He did that later. And I remember going to the, for to take the barber examination in Raleigh. We had a van. As I said, [indistinct 00:36:20] have a van to haul [indistinct 00:36:21]. And I was calling the words, he can't spell worth nothing. But I was calling. I said, spell so and so and so. Spell epidermis. And he would spell this and spell that. And sure enough, when he got there, the guy told me said, "Well Mr. Grant, you can spell." He said, "But how about me asking you these questions and you answer?" So that's where he got his barber license. But he would spell words like they sound to him.	36:01
Sonya Ramsey	I'm wanted to ask you, as a young mother, how did you handle taking care of the children and working with your husband on the farm too?	36:57
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, I taught my children to be independent and I didn't like to leave them—If we were not going to be working right near the house, I had a place in back of the barn for them to play. And they were only allowed to get the mail. A lot of times, the mailman, he was just as hateful he could be. A lot of times, they would see him coming. They were racing to see who would get the mail. And he would put it in the box. They'd be standing right there. So I had to get him straightened out.	37:05
Sonya Ramsey	What did you tell him?	37:36
Florenza Moore Grant	I told him, I said, "I don't work for you. You working for me?" And I said, "If you want that job, you best to give these children mail if they're out here. I don't blame you for waiting for them to come." Nothing like that. And I was spunky.	37:39
Sonya Ramsey	Sounds like you still are spunky.	37:51
Florenza Moore Grant	I had rather you to ask the questions 'cause I—The things that's I important to me, they tell lies on me. They do. They tell lies on me.	37:59
Sonya Ramsey	If you have something you want to go on and share though, that's fine. 'Cause I might not ask you something [indistinct 00:38:17]—	38:12
Florenza Moore Grant	Well once, like I said, we're working hard and after about a year, we got better mules. And then we worked up to a tractor and then my husband had paid as high as seven hired men during the time. Sent my children to college, all them to college. It was not easy, but without any loans or anything like that. And they didn't work no jobs at the college 'cause I wanted them to go and get through. And all of them finished college except Richard. I thought maybe you were going to get to meet Richard. But Richard is real smart. He was a little bit slow in school. He had a real bad illness that deterred him a little bit. But he's smart. But he's a bitter fellow about his land and stuff like that. And anyway, I lost my footing.	38:17
Sonya Ramsey	Well I guess, I'll go and ask about, now that you were landowners, you said people were ostracize you and things. Did you have other landowners that you associated with and things like that? Or you—	39:18
Florenza Moore Grant	Very, very, very few. 'Cause when we came over here, somewhere or another, they had it hooked up. In fact, the old man that lived next door to us was his wife had died and he was raising two young children and a grandchild. And I used to fix meals, some desserts or something for him to help out. But he was so happy. One fall he came and told Matthew, told my husband, he said, "Well I got 12 bales of cotton out. And I carried it up there and I made a good payment on my farm."	39:26
Florenza Moore Grant	And one day his son, one day during the next spring, the following spring, his son came up there with some papers and said, "Mr. Grant, I want you to check these papers out." Said, "Papa carried money from 15 bales of cotton up there and paid on his note. And here they got him charged with something else." Anyhow, my husband took it and looked into it. And he said, "He ain't paid it on no farm." And that old man had a heart attack and died from that. But see them the White folks was putting the money where they wanted to.	40:06
Sonya Ramsey	Mm-hmm, they'd note.	40:41
Florenza Moore Grant	That's right. That's right. That's right. And usually, if he'd had a wife or something, she'd probably kept up with, but he had a heart attack and died from that. So the younger children are grown now. But we have close contact with them. They live away.	40:44
Sonya Ramsey	So how long, [indistinct 00:41:08] you said you first started off with a small farm. Then you got a bigger farm?	41:06
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, we bought two more tracks. And a track had about from 35 to 40 acres.	41:13
Sonya Ramsey	Was it hard to—	41:21
Florenza Moore Grant	In fact, it was referred to as 40 acres and a mule. That's what the government started you out with. But most of those people who first had it, they never redeem it 'cause they go up there and they couldn't add [indistinct 00:41:36] stuff. And the folks would do what they want to do with their money.	41:22
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:41:40] Cheated them out [indistinct 00:41:41].	41:40
Florenza Moore Grant	Right. Right.	41:40
Sonya Ramsey	Was it when y'all went to buy your land, did you have any resentment from the White community [indistinct 00:41:48]?	41:43
Florenza Moore Grant	More from the Black community. Of course, the White folks would love to get rid of us 'cause we're upstarts, they say. They would love to get rid of Gary. But we had a issue here not too long ago about these—You might have read something about these hog people coming in. And those White people out there, they think they're better than we are, the Blacks. And they didn't have that much to do with us.	41:49
Florenza Moore Grant	And one day, the White guy called Gary and said, Gary said, "Will you help us get organized to fight this?" 'Cause it was going to be near them. But most of it, most of the selling, it was on White land. But it was Negroes who lived in them little houses. So Gary said, "You sure you want to get organized." Said now, "You might have to lay down and keep some of the trucks from going in there, you know, the big trucks hauling them and stuff, and there to make. So little old guy work at the post office, he's a big fat repulsive looking old White guy.	42:19
Florenza Moore Grant	He said, "Now Gary—Gary said "And we might have to lay in the roads. Y'all sure you want to get organized?" He said, "Now Gary, I ain't going to lay in the road. I might lay in the side the road." (laughs) So Gary said, "Well man, you ain't fit to deal with." But they organized and still have done some good. Have delayed some of that action. But I told them when he started. I said, "Gary, y'all not going to stop it." 'Cause the big folks, the money folks was in on.	42:54
Sonya Ramsey	I need to go back and ask you about your children, when you were having your children, did you—Sorry, excuse me. Did you always have them with a doctor and stuff? Or did you-	43:26
Florenza Moore Grant	Hospital.	43:37
Sonya Ramsey	You always them in the hospital. A lot of other women had it with the midwife. Why did you decide to have [indistinct 00:43:44].	43:38
Florenza Moore Grant	It wasn't that I decided— my condition, I would have a kidney flare up during my pregnancy. And I lost—Well they took it. 'Cause we back then, we had to harvest the peanuts, had to pull up a bunch, the tractor—Would plow with the mules at that time, would plow. And you go up and pick up one and shake it out and had to put it on a stack. And I think that's why they had to take that one. I was pregnant and didn't know it at the time. 'Cause my period was still. So.	43:44
Sonya Ramsey	You talked about the hospital. Did a lot of other Blacks go to the hospital?	44:20
Florenza Moore Grant	No, they talked about me. Some of my own relatives talked about me. And said, "Why she got to go to the hospital? She ain't no better than nobody else." And during my pregnancies, I had to be checked every two weeks.	44:24
Sonya Ramsey	Was that expensive to pay the doctors?	44:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Yeah. Well compared, it was just as expensive as it is, [indistinct 00:44:48] compared to the other prices of things.	44:43
Sonya Ramsey	And you had a Black doctor?	44:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	44:51
Sonya Ramsey	How was he—	44:52
Florenza Moore Grant	I had one White doctor with the one that I lost.	44:52
Sonya Ramsey	Do you remember Dr. DuBissette?	44:58
Florenza Moore Grant	Who?	45:00
Sonya Ramsey	The Dr. DuBissette. Was he your doctor?	45:00
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mmm.	45:01
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. I was trying to do [indistinct 00:45:05].	45:03
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, Dr. Floyd Green was my doctor when I lived in Newport News. That's where all of my children were born except one.	45:06
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:45:15] Do you think the doctors or the hospital is better in Newport News than—Did you ever go to the hospital down here?	45:14
Florenza Moore Grant	But not for child birth. [indistinct 00:45:23] Not for child birth. But I've been to the hospital down here.	45:25
Sonya Ramsey	Did they have [indistinct 00:45:28] healthcare back then when you first moved down here for Black?	45:26
Florenza Moore Grant	No.	45:31
Sonya Ramsey	What did Blacks when they got sick?	45:32
Florenza Moore Grant	I said that. I don't know what they—The ones on welfare and stuff like that, they had. But I know we didn't.	45:36
Sonya Ramsey	What did Blacks do when they got sick?	45:43
Florenza Moore Grant	They died most of the time. That's what this health—	45:45

Florenza Moore Grant	—towns or cities or whatever, sent in their thing. Children.	0:05
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah. There one that we [indistinct 00:00:14].	0:11
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.	0:13
Sonya Ramsey	I wanted to go back and ask about back when you first moved to this area, did your home have electricity?	0:16
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	0:24
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:00:28]?	0:24
Florenza Moore Grant	A light stringing from there. You know?	0:28
Sonya Ramsey	Mm-hmm.	0:30
Florenza Moore Grant	We put in all the receptors and stuff since we've been there.	0:31
Sonya Ramsey	Did most other homes have electricity? Black homes?	0:35
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, all of the homes over in that area that I lived, they were built for—To tell you the truth, in the area that I lived, they built that section for White folk. And they built two sets of houses. The Black folks houses. But it so happened that the Black folks got some of the White folk's houses that were built for the White folk. And as I said, when we came over here, all the houses had been lived in and torn down. Not torn down, but are coming down.	0:39
Sonya Ramsey	What year, what time period was this?	1:19
Florenza Moore Grant	Huh?	1:21
Sonya Ramsey	What time period was it when you first came over?	1:21
Florenza Moore Grant	I think about in '45.	1:22
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay. Wanted to go back and ask you how did the Depression affect your family?	1:25
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, we'd been used to being poor.	1:31
Sonya Ramsey	Didn't have much effect.	1:33
Florenza Moore Grant	That's right. And like I said, I raised garden and I sold and raised our own meat, pork. So that's how we made it.	1:35
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. And then you moved in 1945. Did World War II have an effect on your family?	1:49
Florenza Moore Grant	I had two sons that went to the Korean War.	2:00
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	2:02
Florenza Moore Grant	But not really.	2:05
Sonya Ramsey	With your sons that went to the Korean War, did they talk to you about their experiences? No?	2:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mm. If they want to talk, they talk. But if I say something, they—Used to ask them about it. And my oldest son, well, Richard might be affected too, but my oldest son was affected by it.	2:10
Sonya Ramsey	You mean health-wise or mental? Or change—	2:25
Florenza Moore Grant	They tell me that Korean War that left—I think that's the one that they had carried guns, but they didn't have no ammunition. And they got shot down and stuff like that.	2:32
Sonya Ramsey	Did they ever talk to you about how they were treated as Black soldiers? Things like that?	2:45
Florenza Moore Grant	No. One was in the Army and the other one was in the Marines. Gary didn't go. No, not—	3:02
Sonya Ramsey	I forgot to ask you, back earlier, about your church life. Was your family active in the church?	3:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	3:11
Sonya Ramsey	What church did they attend?	3:13
Florenza Moore Grant	The Baptist church.	3:13
Sonya Ramsey	The Baptist church.	3:14
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. We brought up in a Baptist church.	3:16
Sonya Ramsey	Were you baptized?	3:18
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes.	3:20
Sonya Ramsey	What was that experience?	3:20
Florenza Moore Grant	I really don't know, I was about—	3:24
Sonya Ramsey	You were young?	3:25
Florenza Moore Grant	—nine years old. But I know this, I know that I was [indistinct 00:03:35] all because of my parents. It wasn't anything that I had. But I grew into it.	3:27
Sonya Ramsey	When you moved with your family here, did you continue in the Baptist church?	3:43
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	3:47
Sonya Ramsey	Which church did you attend here?	3:48
Florenza Moore Grant	Tildra Chapel.	3:50
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay. Did you participate in any other activities at the church? Did they have other activities besides the services on Sunday?	3:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Not much. These folks over here, love going, they just go to church. They think that that is it. I don't go to church as much as I used to go because—And I didn't ever join this church here, but that's where I would attend when we moved here. But my husband and my children, I let my children join here because most of them were not into the church. Well, not members of church. But my husband have always moved his membership wherever he—But I always stayed at my church, home church, on the count of my mother and father. So now I'm the only one there that is a member there, but I never moved.	4:00
Sonya Ramsey	And so, a young family, what did you and your husband do for social life? Did you ever go to the—	4:43
Florenza Moore Grant	We'd go to the movie once a week. They had drive-ins.	4:45
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	4:51
Florenza Moore Grant	And that was a treat to the children. We work all day and stop kind of early and we eat up there.	4:51
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	4:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Sitting in the car, drive to the drive-in.	4:58
Sonya Ramsey	They had food at the movies too? [indistinct 00:05:02] hot dogs?	5:00
Florenza Moore Grant	Well no, but it's restaurants right there, near. We get the sandwiches and sodas. I worked hard, and like I said, the people will tell you that—People have stopped me in the road and asked me, say, "Why do you work so hard?" But like I said, I wanted my children to get an education. Whether they do, I may not have no land when we did, but they got a education. And I used the land to do that and they can do it if they want to.	5:01
Sonya Ramsey	You talked about, were there any Black-owned businesses in this area?	5:32
Florenza Moore Grant	No. Mm-mm.	5:36
Sonya Ramsey	No. Okay.	5:37
Florenza Moore Grant	And you'd be surprised, that the Black folks who claim they don't know nothing about this place. We've been here 27 years. That's pitiful, isn't it?	5:39
Sonya Ramsey	It sure is. I wanted to ask you about, were you active in any political organizations, like the NAACP and things like that? When did you start participating with that?	5:46
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't know. Many years ago. I'm not associated with it as much as I was because we don't have good leaders. And they get the position and—Like the president of NAACP now. I don't know whether y'all read about the Wilmington 10. Ben Chavis was president of the NAACP. And my Gary and my oldest daughter would go see him and keep him informed and stuff like that. He don't even recognize them.	6:03
Sonya Ramsey	Sorry to hear that. Let's go back and talk about when you first started participating back then. What kind of—	6:31
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, when we were having problems with Black folks registering in—	6:41
Sonya Ramsey	In Halifax County?	6:45
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh.	6:45
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	6:45
Florenza Moore Grant	We were getting in a group of me and my husband and five or six other men, my brother. And we got together and we'd go up to try to register. And at that time, you had to read and write a portion of the Constitution.	6:47
Sonya Ramsey	This the 1950s? Or—	7:05
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Okay. So I didn't go. It was one or two other women would go with him, but three or four [indistinct 00:07:14] would go. So this particular, they had turned them down every time they go. So old White men that runs Tillery, he's dead now, but he told him, "See, y'all just going let them niggers—Take some of them niggers on, because they ain't going stop." Because got some new blood in here now. They refer to us as bad. (laughs)	7:12
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	7:30
Florenza Moore Grant	So one Saturday, Matthew came back home and said, "Flo, will you get dressed?" And he said, "Look nice now. And we going to send you back with Ms. Manley to register." He said, "We ain't got nobody registered yet." Well, we had been having classes, studying.	7:35
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	7:58
Florenza Moore Grant	So when I went up there, Ms. Manley, we went in together, she act like she didn't know me because she was going to see what they do me like. And I told them, he said, "Can I do something for you?" I said, "I'd like to register?" "Are you willing to abide by the rules and regulations?" Told him I am. "The rules and regulations, not your rules and regulations."	7:59
Florenza Moore Grant	By this time, a little old White gal, about 18 years old, came in and walked up there and she said, "I want to register." And he didn't put her through nothing. So when he said, "Are you ready?" I said, "I was ready before she came in here." He said, "Well, she registered under grandfather clause." I said, "I got a grandfather too," and I said, "He happens to be a White man."	8:23
Sonya Ramsey	Oh. What did he say then?	8:48
Florenza Moore Grant	Got just to shaking, just to shaking. And, "Well, I just don't understand why y'all Black folks come here and don't obey the rules and regulations." I said, "I'm not going to obey your rules and regulations." And so, he said, "Well, you willing to read a portion of the Constitution and write it?" I said, "Yes."	8:49
Florenza Moore Grant	So he started reading one article or something. He's mispronouncing words. So I said, "Man, you not pronouncing that word correct. That word is so and so and so and so." Ooh, he turned red. He was really angry at me. But Miss Manley was sitting back there, and Miss Manley had been up there with the men before, but she was sitting back there listening because she wouldn't have done what I did.	9:11
Florenza Moore Grant	But anyway, so he said, "Now, you willing to write a portion of it?" I said, "Yeah." That's when he was going to read it out to me to write. I said, "You're mispronouncing those words." Anyhow, I got registered. Was one with three Blacks registered in Halifax County.	9:30
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. All right.	9:49
Florenza Moore Grant	In Halifax County. And another lady, Ms. Manley, you know [indistinct 00:09:57] to me, and I told you. So we made five. Then another Black lady, I think the next Saturday, got on.	9:49
Sonya Ramsey	Did that many Black men get registered as more Black women, they got registered?	10:04
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, it was the Minister and Mr. Lloyd Smith around there, and one woman, the three that was already registered. But Miss Manley and I made three women.	10:08
Sonya Ramsey	Were you nervous about going up there to try to register?	10:20
Florenza Moore Grant	No, I wasn't nervous, but told you about my daddy.	10:24
Sonya Ramsey	Is that where you think you got your courage from? That's great, to do that.	10:24
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Well, I know, once, we were boycotting something and they couldn't get no women to go. And Matthew came and got me. I went and when we got up there in the back to the courthouse, a old Black man behind me said, "I'm going to stay right behind you because they ain't going to hurt you." I said, "I ain't going promise you that." But—	10:30
Sonya Ramsey	You said that you'd been taking classes about voting. Was that through the NAACP, the classes were? Or through [indistinct 00:11:03]—?	10:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, that's really what encouraged it, the NAACP.	11:03
Sonya Ramsey	How long had the chapter been in Halifax County during that time?	11:09
Florenza Moore Grant	We were the first ones organized.	11:13
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	11:15
Florenza Moore Grant	And Tillery. But Weldon sent out that little thing about 10 years ago, saying that they were a brand new—I had the charter to prove that Halifax. So they steal a lot of stuff. They take a lot of credit, Halifax, try to take a lot of credit from Tillery.	11:15
Sonya Ramsey	Did your family ever face any danger for your civil rights activities and things like that?	11:34
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mm.	11:41
Sonya Ramsey	What about when you went into the town and stuff? Did people treat you differently? Any places—	11:43
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. When Gary was married, I went on to this place where it had country-cured pork and I bought two big shopping carts full of food. And I had him to slice me one of those hams and had him to, he made good hamburger. Had him grinding four pounds of hamburger. Anyhow, when I came out to check out, he had started on me, and here come this White man and asked him, "Could I get some bologna?" It was lunchtime. And he just turned right on around and waited on the White man. And I just turned right around and walked out with two cart full of, had 190 something dollars worth of groceries, and he came out the door and said, "Heretofore," he wouldn't, like if I write a check, I said, "Could I get $10?"	11:48
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, [indistinct 00:12:49].	12:49
Florenza Moore Grant	"No, no. I can't do that. I don't accept the check for what you bought." But anyway, he came out the door there and he said, "Come back. Well, come back. What am I going to do with—" I said, "I don't give a damn what you do with it." I said, "My daddy would raise out of his grave if he knew that I'd do that."	12:49
Florenza Moore Grant	So a deacon from my church was working right across the street, in front of this grocery store, and he was coming in for lunch too. And he was telling this deacon, the clerk was telling this Black man about what I had done for him. "And she bought all this stuff," and stuff like—He said, "Well, you should know her dad." And I've done that. I had to buy $10 of gas to go to another place to get it, but that's the kind of—	13:08
Florenza Moore Grant	I remember up in Scotland Neck once, his daddy was sick in the hospital in Baltimore. And he's close, so we got to run up there. And I was always busy. And I said, "Well, I got to run to the store and get something that I can go straight to the hospital in. I'm going to have to change." So I went up there uptown and showed up. I had looked and looked and found, in this store, exactly what I needed, a three piece job. Slack, skirt and top. I said, "Well, this will be fine." And it was quite expensive, but this'll do it.	13:34
Florenza Moore Grant	And a White lady came in there and she stopped waiting on me, and waited on the a White lady. And by that time, I was to the door. So she said, "I got your stuff ready." I said, "I don't have any stuff in here." And a White lady was coming in at that point. So this old woman, she's mad as the devil. She was saying, "I don't know what she thinks. She done bought stuff, I done took up all this time with her," and so and so and so, "and now she don't want it."	14:08
Florenza Moore Grant	So the White lady she was talking to said, "You don't know who she is, do you?" So she said, "No, I don't know." She said, "Well, they're all right. They got insurance with us." And said, "They carry heavy insurance," stuff like that. She came to the door and just called me back. Met my sister-in-law on the street, so she said, "What you doing up here?" I said, "Up here trying to find something to go see my father-in-law." So she said, "You didn't have the money?" I said, "Yeah, I had the money and I had bought it." But I said, "The lady stopped waiting on me to wait on a White woman." And she said, "Well, you want me to go back in there?" I said, "Hell no. I'll wear what I got on. That's the kind of nigger I am." (laughs)	14:33
Florenza Moore Grant	So that's why Gary and them calling me bad. And then what he was speaking about, it was in the fall, early in the fall. Cool, sunshine-y day. And I made my clothes. And I had on this little black fitting dress, sheath, just a little plain, simple dress. Had a slit up the back. And my hair was, the fall, that was real pretty and fluffy. And I think I had on bareback shoes too. But it was a nice fall day. But anyhow, I went in the store. That's when this pancake makeup first came out. And I went in there and asked a man that I'd like to see some colors, shades. Oh he was so nice. And he said, "I don't know what you want with a shade. Where in the world you get this pretty tan?"	15:11
Sonya Ramsey	Oh.	16:03
Florenza Moore Grant	"In Florida?" I said, "No, in Tillery, in the cotton patch."	16:06
Sonya Ramsey	He moved just like that.	16:08
Florenza Moore Grant	And stuff like that really took—My oldest brother was often mistaken for White. He looked kind of Jewish. But I don't understand why, I don't know why they—And I got a sister passes for White if she wants to. But she says she doesn't pass. I said, "Well, where you think you got all the—" She's the only sister I had that didn't finish high school. And I said, "How you think you get a place in—"And she can do anything. But she's very fair and got small lips, picky nose.	16:15
Sonya Ramsey	You had talked about being teased, but did you ever think you got some, because you talked about your sister might have gotten some jobs because the way she looked. Do you think that you might have gotten some other opportunities because of the way you looked and stuff like that?	16:50
Florenza Moore Grant	No, because like I said, when I was telling you about me when I was small and all, and blonde hair, and I told you about, said, "Why don't she go to the White school?" Not the White school, school up street, but they meant the White school. And I was real, what you call it? I was real fearful and scared I was going to do the wrong thing. But when I came out of that shell, all hell broke loose.	17:03
Sonya Ramsey	What made you come out of your shell?	17:33
Florenza Moore Grant	Because I couldn't make just as good grades as anybody in the class. And like I said, the teachers showed a little partiality because of my daddy being—I don't think they had boards of education back there, but they had some kind of organization. And most of the men were deacons of churches.	17:36
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	17:58
Florenza Moore Grant	But we were all smart, in school. And knew who you were. That's important, to know who you are. And when I first came over here, my sister-in-law and another friend of mine said, "You going to care looking like that?" I said, "Yeah, I'm working in the field. And I'm going right back to the field." "Lord, I wouldn't go up there looking like that." I said, "I know who I am." And get just as sharp as anybody when I get ready to.	17:58
Florenza Moore Grant	Oh, I know what I started to tell you. I wanted to get this in. This something I'd had some experience with that, that I have tried to forget. But it had been a raining week and I had a cart load of clothes to wash. So it was wet and we couldn't get these peanuts up like I was telling you about, shaking them like that. So I said, "Well, I'm going home and wash." And when I got there, this guy came up there from the light place and said, "Ms. Grant, I was sending you here to cut your lights off because you ain't paid your bill." And I said, "Well, I wish you wouldn't do that." I said, "I got all this washing here and been working all the week." "That's not my problem." And so, he started up the pole. I went in the house and got a shotgun. I said, "If he goes up that pole, you ain't going to have to come down." You know, you dealt with all them clothes, the washing, tired, and—(laughs).	18:32
Florenza Moore Grant	And I tell you one thing, he came down. And I tell you what fate had in store for him. My husband was the first Black to get on the board of directors for the REA, rural electrification. And he was over him. He gave him a heart attack, this White guy. Gave him a heart attack and he died. Killed him dead. Thank God.	19:28
Sonya Ramsey	Was your husband as outspoken as you were? Or you were the more—	19:58
Florenza Moore Grant	No, but don't back him in a corner.	20:01
Sonya Ramsey	What would he do if you did that?	20:02
Florenza Moore Grant	Anything I'd do. Anything. [indistinct 00:20:08].	20:05
Sonya Ramsey	How did he feel about you being so outspoken?	20:08
Florenza Moore Grant	Well he can't help it.	20:11
Sonya Ramsey	He didn't worry about you or anything?	20:11
Florenza Moore Grant	No. Uh-uh. He speaks out, he don't take no backseat. He's kind of quiet and more quiet than I am. And he more with the children than I am. He explains why they react the way they do and stuff like that. Which, he was the youngest in his family. He was act kind of timid and shy. But no, you got a bad man if he runs out of that corner. And I tell the children that. They know that too. I said, "Your daddy loves you and he's good to you and all." I said, "But don't keep trying him now."	20:16
Sonya Ramsey	I wanted to go back and ask you why did you decide to help with organizing the NAACP?	20:54
Florenza Moore Grant	Because we didn't have nobody to do it and we needed some kind of organization that we could go to for—But the NAACP don't mean nothing to me no more, because we don't have no strong bodies in there. Nothing but people that can be paid off by the Whites. So not just react on this and stuff like that.	21:03
Sonya Ramsey	You were talking about you were doing boycotts. Did you talk to some about that?	21:37
Florenza Moore Grant	What?	21:41
Sonya Ramsey	You were doing boycotts and things and stuff. Did you talk to some about that?	21:41
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, I—	21:42
Sonya Ramsey	Did the NAACP do boycott and things in Tillery and stuff like that? What kind of other, besides—	21:43
Florenza Moore Grant	Not really. Not really, that I remember. I tell you, so many things back then that I just can't even think of them. And some of them I put out of my mind because they were not pleasant. But I don't remember ever having been threatened or nothing like that, to be put in jail or nothing. But Gary was in jail. When he was in college, he was in jail all the time.	21:54
Sonya Ramsey	When your children were growing up through school, did they ever get any effect from your activities? Jus trying to register to vote and do things like that?	22:14
Florenza Moore Grant	No, because they were—No, no. Because Gary was fighting—Van, whoo. We kept the, and this wasn't NAACP, we kept the school board from having meetings for six months.	22:26
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, why-	22:45
Florenza Moore Grant	Recently. Not recently, but within the last two or three years. Gary was on the school board at one time. Anyhow, they got a Black woman in here, the superintendent. And she was better qualified than that White person that had been up there. And they claimed that she done something. I forget what they charged her with, but it was doing the snow here from Richard. They charged her.	22:45
Sonya Ramsey	Hi.	23:26
Speaker 1	Hello, hello. How are you? [INTERRUPTION 00:23:36]	23:26
Sonya Ramsey	I guess I wanted to talk a little bit more about your other activities of the NAACP back then.	23:30
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't remember nothing vividly because that's, like I said, I've, been stop—	23:36
Sonya Ramsey	Did they work with the school desegregation? Things like that?	23:46
Florenza Moore Grant	It depend on who we—But we never had a real good president, to my knowledge. But we stayed behind him. But I don't really, we had a Black caucus in here that I think done more.	23:51
Sonya Ramsey	Really?	24:09
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh.	24:09
Sonya Ramsey	Would you talk some about the—When did that start?	24:10
Florenza Moore Grant	I didn't belong to the Black Caucus. That was Gary and that crowd.	24:12
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	24:16
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh.	24:17
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	24:17
Florenza Moore Grant	But now, they respected the Black caucus, these White folks.	24:18
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	24:21
Florenza Moore Grant	And they were strong, had two ministers up there, young ministers. And my daughter Van was up there now. She's bad. She's bad news.	24:23
Sonya Ramsey	She's outspoken too, like you are?	24:35
Florenza Moore Grant	And will do anything. I think what I was about to say, that we were keeping the board of education from having—	24:38
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	24:43
Florenza Moore Grant	And we'd have a packed house every night. And him, he's not a show-it fighter. But this particular night, they couldn't have the meeting. So the board finally got there. There's things, post-op, you know what I'm trying to say. Ropes running through these—	24:43
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	25:12
Florenza Moore Grant	And got speakers so they could speak to each other and—	25:13
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, goodness.	25:18
Florenza Moore Grant	So we couldn't—But see, standing crowd only. And they had done everything. We had sung and sung and we had sung, sung. And that wasn't too long ago. We just sung and sung and they couldn't—And then they had to go, "And so and so and so," to one another around in that little circle. So Van, my daughter said, "Willie, we done—" No, Willie Lowe said, "We done done everything else. What we going to do now, Van?" She said, "Y'all better think of something." And it's not funny, but looked up and that girl was going up there. Walked up there and snatched, took that little chain of loose and walked in that little and snatched that one out and snatched that one out and sitting there. And the cops, they called every cop serving in Halifax County. And anyhow, he was in the back.	25:19
Sonya Ramsey	Gary or Richard?	26:20
Florenza Moore Grant	Richard, Richard.	26:20
Sonya Ramsey	Richard.	26:21
Florenza Moore Grant	And Richard wears, most of the time, wears his fatigues. His Marine clothes. And we didn't know Richard was sitting there because he didn't want to participate, nothing like that. But honey, even Van's lawyer was saying, "Van, please. Please not the—" Oh the man, that boy, that this man worked hard to get in office. The district attorney, he was saying—And Evangeline just wants to be seen, all she wants to get in the newspaper. Girl, she got to—"I don't have to get in this little newspaper right here. My name is all over the United States and across the country," and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.	26:21
Florenza Moore Grant	And she was going to him all the time. And her lawyer said, "Van, please not the judge. Not the judge. And the judge was just banging his gavel and some little high school girl back there, Willie Lowe's daughter got up there and said, "Don't you bang that gavel." I mean, it was hot. That was hot.	27:02
Florenza Moore Grant	And anyway, looked up and Richard, we didn't know he was there. He came across the bench, walked the benches. "Don't you touch him. Don't you put hands on—" Girl. that's who you need to talk. That's who you need to talk to, is Gary. Gary can tell some mess too. But I don't doing stuff to be bad, I just—	27:19
Sonya Ramsey	No, I didn't mean that you were being bad.	27:45
Florenza Moore Grant	No. Well, I hope that's not the way that they took it. But this old White man used to run the store out here. Them folks was White folk. Black folks was scared to death of him. And every White woman come in there, he would carry her groceries out, and they were Black—And at that time we had five or six men working on the farm with us. And they would buy their groceries and stuff out there.	27:48
Florenza Moore Grant	So one day I told him, I said—Oh, he did me the same way about, I walked out on him when had bought up a lot of gro—Not that many, about $30 worth. But he said, "Well, you going to leave this stuff here?" I said, "Yeah. You stop waiting on me to cut up a chicken for a woman that bought in here." "Well, she didn't know she wanted them cut up." I said, "Well, she should have waited until I got out because I was finished." And girl standing on the side and said, "You ain't going to walk out and leave, just as sure as I'm sitting here and standing here." And I did.	28:15
Florenza Moore Grant	But he started taking out our groceries, Black folk' groceries and all that. It's stuff like that that I don't even claim credit for, that I deserve the credit for.	28:46
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah, those are important things.	28:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Carry every White woman's groceries out, and you go in and buy them. And at that time I owed him about $300 every month. But he used to have old way of cracking old filthy jokes about Black folks, until I cracked one day and named his wife as the character.	28:56
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, what did he say?	29:19
Florenza Moore Grant	Never no more. He never, Uh-huh. Never no more. And respected me as long as he lived. But I don't go for bad or nothing, but—	29:19
Sonya Ramsey	No, I just asked that because sometimes when Black people fight for their rights, Whites do mean things. There's other people that—	29:28
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, I stay scared to death of Gary all the time. I sure do. Because he's vocal too. But now, that don't talk much but he'll hurt you. And he ain't got nothing for White folks to do.	29:37
Sonya Ramsey	Talk some more about your children when they were growing up. Now, they were active in the Civil Rights Movement? And stuff like that?	29:55
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes. Gary even called me one day and said, "Mom, I've been protesting. Can I skip my exams and go to summer school this summer?" I said, "Never. I've been sitting here, I got all the children to get in school." And I said, "I didn't send you up there to protest and stay in jail." I said, "You better take that test and you better pass it." And he said, "Well, let me drop out of school." I said, "No, you going to drop out but you going to drop out after you get that degree." So, The day he graduated he hugged me and thanked me so much for making stay on. But we weren't rich and was having a hard time. Matthew was cutting hair on the side and I hauled 50 bales of cotton one year, myself.	30:02
Sonya Ramsey	Wow. How did you do that?	30:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, see, I had some men. And I waited, Matthew didn't put his hands on a lock of it. And my boys weren't old enough to get driver's license at that time. But they would help me weigh it and get it loaded. And then I'd carry it to the gin and stick my hair up under my cap like that. Because I didn't want to be belittled, because it would be a line of trailers out there with cotton in it.	30:51
Florenza Moore Grant	But they soon found out about me. The White men would get back for me better than Black ones would.	31:19
Sonya Ramsey	Really?	31:23
Florenza Moore Grant	Let me come first because—See, I carried late in the evening, carried the bale of cotton late in the evening. And sometimes they would gin the cotton until 12 o'clock at night. But-	31:24
Sonya Ramsey	You had to stay there the whole time?	31:35
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, they would give me vent. Let me get in front of them.	31:37
Sonya Ramsey	They'd let you get before them?	31:42
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. But Black women would never do it.	31:43
Sonya Ramsey	Why do you think that was?	31:46
Florenza Moore Grant	Because they didn't appreciate me being out there.	31:48
Sonya Ramsey	You think they resented you being a woman, being out there?	31:52
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	31:55
Sonya Ramsey	Did you ever have any other experiences where other Black men resented the things you did because you were a woman?	31:57
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, not all, but I'm sure they did. One man in PTAs and stuff like that, I used to tickle to death because I would bog down what I didn't believe in. But I can't think of none of the major things. But they knew I've been there. And it's like Gary, when he telling me. I said, "Gary, I'm out of all that mess and I'm tired," and like I said. But I think I paid my dues, I think. (laughs)	32:05
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:32:47].	32:43
Florenza Moore Grant	One experience I remember. Or did I tell you that? Tell you about, I couldn't get nobody to vote, to register. Something that was went up there. I think it was when we was trying to get school buses or something.	32:47
Sonya Ramsey	No, tell me. Tell me about that.	33:04
Florenza Moore Grant	Our children was walking to school and everything. From way back there where I live. So we had got a little committee together to go up there and protest. And all the women back tied, except—it was three women. Me and two others went. And this old nigger was walking behind me, talking about. "Yeah, he's doing so and so. Do something about this. Go get this stopped," and so and so, so blah blah blah. "And White folks can have buses, our children have buses." Got up there and got ready to go in the courthouse and he stuck right up on me, talking about, "They ain't going to hurt you." I said, "But I am. I'm going hurt you." Yeah, going under my dress, tell you.	33:06
Sonya Ramsey	So when you went into the courthouse, what did you do? How did y'all protest?	33:56
Florenza Moore Grant	We don't do nothing but just have a spokesman. We just have a spokesman and everybody has to be real quiet. And that's a dangerous signal. That's a dangerous signal. And—	34:00
Sonya Ramsey	Why is that a danger?	34:08
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, they used to niggers running their mouths.	34:12
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	34:15
Florenza Moore Grant	What they surmise is they got their act together.	34:16
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	34:20
Florenza Moore Grant	That's about the size of it.	34:20
Sonya Ramsey	So what was the result from the protest?	34:22
Florenza Moore Grant	We got buses.	34:23
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	34:24
Florenza Moore Grant	Then as soon as we got the bus in here, the old principal up there, who was a White folks' nigger, he got up and told, "I told y'all going to get some buses." So I went up there to him and told him, I said, "I want to hear somebody else say that you got a bus. You didn't try to help nobody get nothing but the White man. And told news to the White man."	34:25
Florenza Moore Grant	Then I had, when he was talking about segregation, now this is not about me particularly, but it's about my brother and his daughter. And he could pass for White, Jew more or less. But everybody knew that he wasn't. But anyhow, I went in the store one day and my mama was in the store. And Lord, I looked at the paper and there it was on the front page of The News and Observer about Blacks sent their children to a White school. And I looked at it, and it was my brother. (laughs)	34:48
Florenza Moore Grant	And I took the paper, turned it over right quick so my mom wouldn't see it because she'd have died, she'd have fainted right there. And they got up there. The only reason that Van, my daughter wasn't in it, she was a year ahead of them, so she had already gone to the—She was just going in high school. So my brother told his daughter, said, "I want you to go in and put on your good clothes. Get your notebook and your paper." And told his wife, said, "I want you to get dressed good." And there's another little girl that went with them. Her daddy went, but he got cold feet When he got up there, he wouldn't say nothing.	35:28
Florenza Moore Grant	But my brother went in there and he said—They says, "Can I do something for you?" And he said, "I hope so. I'd like to get these children registered." Ooh. The White man said, "Wait till I come back." So he came—	36:06
Sonya Ramsey	Was this the fifties or the sixties?	36:23
Florenza Moore Grant	It was fifties.	36:24
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	36:25
Florenza Moore Grant	The man said, "We can't take him today. We have to," something or other. But the Black supervisor was a woman and she said she didn't know what in the world had happened. But the phone was about to ring off—They telling him about this nigger up there and what would we do about it. Because he didn't go up there acting like he was begging. He was like, "This is a fact. And she's finished the elementary grades. And I understand, I read in the paper that they're integrated and I want to abide by the rules and regulations and the law." Now he was bad, he was a bad guy, but he didn't go for bad. And—	36:28
Sonya Ramsey	What did they do? Did they register your niece? Or what did they do?	37:08
Florenza Moore Grant	No, Uh-huh. They told him that they had something other that they had to do. Because it had just come out, the thing. I don't think he could have won if he'd have gone to court. But it was some loose end there. But it's frighten them to death, so they got real busy and got it so they could go. So he made some improvement.	37:12
Sonya Ramsey	Did you ever have a hard time getting the other people in the community to go along and try to fight for their rights too? And things—	37:36
Florenza Moore Grant	I remember, once, out here to the elementary school before that closed down, our children had been in school for three weeks and didn't have no seats to sit in. And so, I could arouse, I didn't need about five women. And I found out that women can have a more powerful impact on some things than Black men can.	37:44
Sonya Ramsey	Why's that? Why do you think that is?	38:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Because, just like back in slavery, the White men would ravage the Black women and stuff like that. And the husbands couldn't say nothing because they needed a job and somewhere to live, stuff like that. I think that's still the same old slaving mentality. But what was I saying?	38:15
Sonya Ramsey	We were talking about the seats and things.	38:32
Florenza Moore Grant	Oh yeah. And children come home and say, "We had to go outdoors and play because we didn't have no seats," and so on so and so, so. It was cotton picking time, I really didn't have time to go out there. But I got five women together in about a hour. I was shocked. A whole lot of things you can do if you go at it the right way.	38:34
Florenza Moore Grant	And we went out there, scared principal to death. And he said, "Can I help y'all?" I said, "You surely can." I said, "I don't know why, Mr. Herts School been going on three weeks and they ain't got no chairs for the children to sit in." "Well, they going to bring them any day now, any day now, any day." I said, "That ain't good enough. That ain't good enough." I told I them I would speak, they just support me. So, I said, "Well, if you can't get some up—" Oh, we gave him another week. I went back out there. I said, "Mr. Herts, did you get the chairs?" And, "No, not yet, but they going to bring them any day now." I said, "Okay." I said, "Well, I'll go up here to Halifax and see where I come and can't get some."	38:54
Florenza Moore Grant	And the superintendent up there, assistant superintendent was Black and he knows us. He had learned us the hard way. He met me. No, I told the girl. Girl said, "Can I help you?" I said, "Yeah, I'd like to speak to the superintendent, Mr. Young." And she said, "Well, wait, I think he's busy right now." I said, "Well, where is his office?" Because she was a little bit stalling. So he came out because he didn't want us in. But he was so tickled. I said, "Mr. Young, we are up here to see why we don't have some seats in school for the children." "Well, I tell you Mrs. Grant, I really don't know." I said, "Because they're little Black children." I said, "I bet you don't have no White students around here with nowhere to sit."	39:31
Florenza Moore Grant	He was so tickled under here, he didn't know what to do. And two of the ladies that was with me belonged to his church up there in Halifax. Well, they were not vocal, but they were standing strong behind. And he said, "Mrs. Grant, if you just be quiet, if you just be quiet, I will have some chairs in there before the day is gone." I said, "Well, I'll be right out there to see." And he got them. See, you just have to go at things like that. But the principal, he don't want to rock the boat. So it was our children that was being—	40:18
Sonya Ramsey	So you did a lot of activist work for your children in the schools? And-	40:49
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had to go up there. My oldest son was real smart. Well, the children in the Tillery area were not liked up there to the high school, first of all.	40:56
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, wow.	41:05
Florenza Moore Grant	Because a lot of the parents down here had put in bathrooms, had bought their farms and had put in bathrooms and stuff like that. And my children's English teacher was living in a little house there in Scotland Neck then. I think three rooms and the little outside toilet, that you could flush but it was outside. And the children of Tillery got mistreated a lot on the count of that. And I had to go up there several times. Well, I had a teacher up there, a man that would call me. "Mrs. Grant, you need to come up here." And go up there and scare him to death. Scare him to death, that old principal. We got the chairs in there, I want you to know.	41:05
Sonya Ramsey	Oh that's good.	41:49
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. That day, that day. I don't know where they goth them from and I didn't care. So, school is too hard and I worked too hard for the children to go to school and not get their lesson.	41:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Oh, what I started to say? I had to go up to the high school about my oldest son. He was smart, just as smart as he could be in math. He didn't read well. He had been telling me, I didn't like him to bring tales home. He would tell me, said, "Mama, every time I go in Ms. Thomas's room, she hollers at me. And just scares me to death." And so on, so on, so. I said, "Well, what have you done for her to—" "Nothing. Nothing." So, I didn't tell him I'd be up there. But I got ready and went up there.	42:03
Florenza Moore Grant	And we had just bought a great old big farm truck, brand new. And I didn't have nothing in there to drive but that. And I didn't want to get on the road with that, but I did. And when I got up there, I went to every teacher that taught my son and got good credits. And then I went to the principal and he was scared to death. He was scared of the teacher, the English teacher. He was real scared of her.	42:35
Sonya Ramsey	Oh.	43:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	43:07
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	43:07
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. But he didn't know who he was dealing with. So I told him, I said, "I wouldn't—" Oh yeah, she wouldn't give brother, she wouldn't give him a class period. And he was supposed to be graduating. But see, she was going to hold him back but not—	43:07
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, she was going to keep him from graduating.	43:25
Florenza Moore Grant	Said It wasn't a slot. Uh-huh. Said it wasn't a slot in there for it. And I went, after I saw every teacher that he went to and I wanted to know about his grades and all. And two or three of them told me, said, "Well, Kerry's one of the smartest students we have," and blah blah blah. And when he went to A&T college, the principal got up, that old hateful principal got up and said that, one thing, he was just as proud of Kerry Grant as he could be. Because he went up there and made a good name for the school and for himself.	43:26
Florenza Moore Grant	And anyway. The principal, I told him about the teacher. He said, "Well, I wish you wouldn't stir it up. I'll get it straight." I said, "No, I'm going to get it straight. You don't have to get it straight because you should have had it straight." And I said, "I thought you were the principal." "But I don't have a lot of say so over the classes and all that." I said, "But she been after him ever since he been up here." But I told him, I said, "I don't care whether he takes it or not. He had better graduate." Next day, the boy come home and told me he had got a slot for the class. And I don't call that bad. I don't call it being bad.	43:53
Sonya Ramsey	No, that's not—That's good. That's making things better.	44:34
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.	44:34
Sonya Ramsey	For people. I wanted to ask, do you think the principal of the school, that he could have acted differently?	44:42
Florenza Moore Grant	Yes, he could have—	44:46
Sonya Ramsey	That he had a choice?	44:47
Florenza Moore Grant	No, he didn't have a choice, because he sold out to the White folk. He was White folks' nigger. Oh, we opened a service station up there that no Blacks had never run, on Main Street up there. And he got up, we had been up there a week or more before he even knew it, the principal.	44:47
Sonya Ramsey	Your family? Or—	45:04
Florenza Moore Grant	My family. Oh, okay. And somebody said, a teacher that would come down here and let me know what was going on up there, male teacher, because he said, "I don't know why they don't like y'all down there. Wouldn't think, because y'all farm and eat good and wear good clothes," and so on and so. This old principal got up in their auditorium, when they were having chapel service, and said, "I want to tell y'all something else. We got a Black down there on Main Street. First one we ever had. And I want you to know, the White folks promised it to me, that they was going to put a Black one in there."	45:05
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, like had done it for—	45:50
Florenza Moore Grant	Like he had, uh-huh. So this man couldn't stand him, the teacher. He came down there and said, "I got something to ask you, Mrs. Grant." I said, "What is it?" "How did y'all get this store?" I said, "It was for rent." My husband had gone to the oil company to get him to build us a gas station. And the company said, "We have one. And if you want it, but have you got any money?" So Matthew told him, said, "I don't want to buy it. Not where yours is located."	45:51

Sonya Ramsey	So you can take names, without using any names, whatever you want. So your family rented a service station and farm in—	0:01
Florenza Moore Grant	And a barbershop.	0:11
Sonya Ramsey	And a barbershop. Wow. How did you—	0:11
Florenza Moore Grant	That's the only way we got the kids through school.	0:15
Sonya Ramsey	How'd you find the time to do all those things?	0:17
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, I would run this gas station from 10 o'clock in the morning until 12 at night on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays.	0:19
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay.	0:33
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm. Because he would go to the barbershop those days, at one o'clock in the day. But that's the only way we could get the children through school.	0:34
Sonya Ramsey	At the gas station, did you have a lot of customers?	0:47
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. Well, I had a Black fella. A young White guy had asked to get part-time work there, but Halifax kind of a bad place.	0:50
Sonya Ramsey	Race relations kind of?	1:03
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. The Negroes up there, they scary and stuff like that. So I got a Black guy who had eight head of children that was on welfare and he was real good at whatever. He was not all that smart but he was real good at whatever he was good at. And he was good protection for me because he carried a knife that long. And nobody better not bother me. He liked to wash cars and make them look good and stuff like that. And he was real smart too. And I got him off of welfare. We have, not boasting, but let's say, my motto is if I can help somebody. But we got four or five folks off of welfare. Girl that used to work here.	1:05
Sonya Ramsey	At the Casket?	1:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. Before she died, she was on welfare. And she was telling me how much—Had two working here that got off of welfare. But one of the girls died, the other one is married, then got a family. And I don't even ever think back like that, but you could go through a lot. And I had some hard times right here, because I lined the caskets, and if necessary, put the hardware on. I never painted one. They asked me, "Well, Ms. Grant, you can paint them, can't you?" I said, "No, I ain't never painted now."	1:58
Sonya Ramsey	When y'all opened, your husband rent the gas station, how did y'all learn how to run a gas station and things? Did somebody help you and things like that?	2:30
Florenza Moore Grant	Not really. But Matthew's kind of hand a lot of things anyway. Only thing he bothers me, because he's—I don't know how he operates in his meetings and stuff, but he must do pretty good for them to keep moving. Because he's on the national board, the first Black in the last, I think he went on the last of last year. He had to go to a lot of meetings. And I thought he was getting kind of old for that, but he must be doing pretty good. But he likes public life. He likes going, traveling. I did it but I didn't like it.	2:43
Sonya Ramsey	When your family owned the gas station, did you have any resentment from the White community because y'all was Black?	3:39
Florenza Moore Grant	No. The guy right across the street was White and some of those guys who worked on White people's farms was not true to us. And they would tote news across—And one night a man and his wife got fighting right there on my grounds.	3:47
Sonya Ramsey	At the gas station?	4:10
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. And I went out there. And the older men who was sitting around on the ledge there, said, "Ms. Grant, don't you bother that." Said, "That boy just as mean as hell." I said, "He ain't no meaner than I am," scared to death, scared to death. I said, "He ain't no meaner than I am." So I went out and told him, I said, "Now, you do whatever." "This is my wife." I said, "Well, you do whatever you want to but you not going to do it on these grounds." "Well, I'm not scared of you." I said, "Honey, I ain't scared of you." And by that time the police was up there.	4:11
Florenza Moore Grant	So the next day he came back to apologize. I told him, I said, "I want you to get your tail off this ground and I don't want to catch it back over here no more." He didn't ever come back no more either. But I'd be scared to death up there and made it like I had guns in there, I had—	4:42
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah, I was going to ask about. Was that scary, all those different people coming by all the time?	4:56
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. And see, they had some right mean folks up there. True. But they showed me a lot of respect.	5:01
Sonya Ramsey	Did you have a lot of White customers that came by and got their—	5:10
Florenza Moore Grant	Not a lot, but some. The boy that ran their radio station, he was most dutiful to us, was White. Well, the gas man that deliver gas, he buys oil. Not oil but buys stuff from us that he—Well, the bank man told somebody that we had made—Said they had never had a Black in the store before, but we had made more money. We had banked more money than anybody they had. But you know how White folks do. They slip them some. But I paid my rent. That was all I owed them.	5:13
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, you wouldn't pay any extra.	6:02
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. And we had to do, my husband wears many hats, and I don't like to. Well, he gets strung out, too many things. I think he ought to curb some of these positions that he hold. But he was the first Black to be hired on the REA, the rural electrification.	6:09
Sonya Ramsey	When was that?	6:32
Florenza Moore Grant	About 27 years ago.	6:32
Sonya Ramsey	Wow. And what was that organization? What did they do?	6:35
Florenza Moore Grant	They buy electricity from Carolina Power for these rural—	6:38
Sonya Ramsey	Oh.	6:44
Florenza Moore Grant	That's why it's called REA, Rural Electrical.	6:45
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. Okay. How was he selected for that organization?	6:53
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't know. Just one day we got a letter here, said that he had been nominated and would he accept it? And one of the deacons down there, when they heard about it, well, they had a write-up in the paper about, and one of the deacons, head deacon at the church down there, was around here telling folks. Said that, "They asked me but I throw those mess away. I got one of them too. I throw those mess away." But he moved on up. I think he holds three positions in the electric thing. The local, the state, and as I said, this last year he was nominated for the—And right behind him, he got another Black on. Now they have four Blacks and three Whites.	6:53
Sonya Ramsey	I wanted to ask you about, your children are activists. What values did you teach them to make them go on and fight for their rights like they have?	7:51
Florenza Moore Grant	Through the things I did, I reckon. (laughs)	8:02
Sonya Ramsey	Teach them by example?	8:02
Florenza Moore Grant	I reckon they—and he, like I said, he ain't no pussycat. My husband ain't no pussycat about stuff like that. He's real bitter toward White folk. But I'm not that bitter toward them, but I know that they don't mean me no good. And if I find one that I can—The old lady used to run the store down there, where you turn to go to my house, it's living quarters. But I thought just much of her as anybody I know, but I couldn't stand her husband. And I tell about it. I said, "I can't stand Mr. Carter. But Mrs. Carter, you a nice person and I like you." I would carry little desserts and stuff, evenings down there. Slice of cake or slice of pie something. But I couldn't stand him because I think he belonged to the Ku Klux Klan.	8:09
Sonya Ramsey	Wow. Did you have much activity with the Ku Klux Klan? Did they do many things in this area?	8:52
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, I read somewhere about they were having a march somewhere in North Carolina, last week I believe it was. But now, we were having to mess with that at the school board. Most of them old guys would drive up there in pickup trucks, had guns in the back. Most of them are Ku Klux Klan. Halifax kind of has a bad name. I don't—	8:59
Sonya Ramsey	The race relations?	9:24
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Mm-hmm. Course, they're setting off hamptons in my county, where I come from, it's worse. But I'm not sure about that.	9:25
Sonya Ramsey	Did you remember any stories of people getting lynched and things like that?	9:35
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-mm. I remember, and I don't remember that name, but a Black boy got shot down on streets in Rich Square one Saturday, that likely caused the riot.	9:39
Sonya Ramsey	Is that in the fifties or the forties? Or—	9:53
Florenza Moore Grant	No, that was—	9:55
Sonya Ramsey	—thirties? Or later on? Was it the sixties?	9:56
Florenza Moore Grant	It must been in the early forties, was before we moved over here.	9:59
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. And you said almost caused a riot?	10:09
Florenza Moore Grant	Shot down on his knees. And then the cop took the stick and beat him up.	10:09
Sonya Ramsey	Oh.	10:13
Florenza Moore Grant	And then took him and carried him in a White man's store and probably finished killing him.	10:13
Sonya Ramsey	Did you remember the man's name that got killed?	10:22
Florenza Moore Grant	No. He was—	10:29
Sonya Ramsey	Do you remember why they did that to them? Or they [indistinct 00:10:32]?	10:29
Florenza Moore Grant	That's what I was trying to think back. He was not a rabble rouser. No, I don't. Like I said, it's things that I've been involved in and all that, I don't even remember, don't even recall and don't care to recall. If something come up that happens that's kind of coincidental to it, it brings it back to me.	10:31
Sonya Ramsey	Just going to change the subject. Your husband was a barber. How did he go about getting his customers? Did he have a lot of customers?	10:59
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm.	11:07
Sonya Ramsey	And where did you go to get your hair done?	11:10
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't.	11:12
Sonya Ramsey	You don't? You did it yourself?	11:13
Florenza Moore Grant	Just wash it. I get it cut.	11:15
Sonya Ramsey	Did you always cut your own hair and get your—	11:20
Florenza Moore Grant	Up until a few years ago. And I got it so I can't hold—My arms get tired. When I get it cut, I get a wash. It's embarrassing because I go walk in. I can't make appointments because I can't keep them. I go walk in and most of the time it's a White place. And they embarrass me so bad. They marvel at my hair. The other customers in there.	11:23
Sonya Ramsey	Hair is soft and—	11:58
Florenza Moore Grant	I just get it washed and cut. And the lady said, "Do you want some whatever, whatever?" I said, "No. No spray." "You want to spray it?" "Nah, I don't want to spray it." And then the other customers would be whispering to each other, "I wonder how does she get her hair like that?" And they would ask me, I'd tell them. From the White folks. (laughs)	12:00
Sonya Ramsey	Did you ever go to the—	12:27
Florenza Moore Grant	Lord.	12:28
Sonya Ramsey	That's all right. Do you ever go to the Black beauty shops and things like that?	12:30
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah, I tried. The little girl that lives in my neighborhood got a place in Scotland Neck and she doesn't—Well, her mom used to work for us. We got them off welfare, as I said. But she doesn't take too well to us. She treated me nice at the shop. And I was going to try to make arrangement. I don't have no special time to go. Because if I can't go, I just go wash it myself. And like I said, I used to cut it and folks would ask me, "Who cut your hair?" But when I'm could hold my arms up good.	12:33
Florenza Moore Grant	But anyway, my hair was so hard. She put too much, when she—I told her I didn't want her to dry it. She said, "Well, I just put it warm." And she burnt my hair with that dryer, I ain't never go back to her. But the only thing that is embarrassing to me, the White folks wonder, "Now, how do you get your hair like this? And how do you do so and so so?" And I'm going to tell them one day. But the Lord knew what he was doing to give me some hair that I didn't have to have dressed and stuff, because I had a busy schedule. He knew what my life was going to be like.	13:10
Sonya Ramsey	Did your sisters have the same type of hair that you did?	13:51
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. Two of them hair's a little more straighter than mine. I have a natural curl. Yesterday, at the do, at the center.	13:54
Sonya Ramsey	That party.	14:14
Florenza Moore Grant	About three or four people came up behind me on the steps and said, "Girl, who in the world curled your hair?"	14:15
Sonya Ramsey	Oh. It just curls naturally like this?	14:24
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm.	14:26
Sonya Ramsey	That's nice.	14:26
Florenza Moore Grant	I just wash it and let it go.	14:27
Sonya Ramsey	That's great.	14:28
Florenza Moore Grant	In fact, that's what I had done yesterday. It wasn't even quite dry when I got out there. But I don't try to use no dryer on it.	14:30
Sonya Ramsey	You don't need to?	14:37
Florenza Moore Grant	Huh?	14:38
Sonya Ramsey	You don't need to.	14:39
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, if I'm out, I'll let them run a dryer over it a little bit to keep me from catching cold, coming out.	14:40
Sonya Ramsey	Well can we, I guess I'm getting finished all my questions, I won't take too much more of your time. I just wondered, could you talk some about your children? And you mentioned Evangeline. Is she the oldest?	14:48
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah.	14:59
Sonya Ramsey	Oldest. Mm-hmm.	14:59
Florenza Moore Grant	She was premature. Her name Carrie. And Gary, Richard, Gloria. And Bruce is adopted, but I might want you to erase that.	15:00
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, that's—	15:19
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, no, I don't care about—But did when he first came out of the Service, Navy, that's the only time he's ever mentioned adoption to me.	15:20
Florenza Moore Grant	And when he went to Sunday school one Sunday morning and came back and he was just crying. He would just cry for nothing. Just cry for nothing. And he got up in my lap and he was just crying. I said, "What in the world's wrong with you, boy?" I said, "Didn't you like Sunday school? Or did you act up in Sunday school and you're scared? Somebody going to tell?" "No. No."	15:31
Florenza Moore Grant	So I said, "Well, tell Mama what's wrong." He looked up at me, he said (imitates crying) when I said, "Tell Mama," and that hit. I said, "Uh-huh. I bet you I know what's wrong. Somebody told you I ain't your mama. (Imitates crying). I said, "But they don't know what they're talking about." And I said, "You shut that fuss up right here now." See, they would tell him his hair was kinky and stuff. And his hair, he got a nice grade of hair, of course all hair is good to me. And I said, "You know Brucey, Mama didn't have to have you."	15:52
Sonya Ramsey	Yeah, he's special.	16:30
Florenza Moore Grant	Yeah. I said, "But I chose you." And I said, "I had to have these other brothers and sisters that you have." And I said, "I don't care what nobody say, you are mine. You are ours." It took me, we had a mess getting him adopted.	16:32
Sonya Ramsey	Really? Was it hard for Blacks to adopt children?	16:46
Florenza Moore Grant	Well, he was in the family.	16:49
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	16:50
Florenza Moore Grant	But his mama had him by not her husband. And he questioned me a lot about that and that bothered me because I didn't know the man.	16:51
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:17:03].	17:03
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. He wanting to know what did his daddy look like. And I said, "Look like Matthew Grant." "Oh, Mama, you know what I'm talking about." But he's as dear as the rest of them. I can't stand because he was spoiled. The other child—He was spoiled. He was spoiled. But he was smart. Real smart in the head. I wish he had put it to good use. And sent him out of state to college, because that's what he wanted to do. And I hate I did that because he ended up, he went four years but he changed his major. Being smart, going to change his major, so he would stay in school. But I outsmarted him because I had four years for all of them. I told him, if necessary, I'd give you a summer. But I had too many. Like I said, I didn't borrow a dollar to send them.	17:03
Sonya Ramsey	Did they receive scholarships? [indistinct 00:17:57].	17:54
Florenza Moore Grant	Not, no children until Brucey, the last one received a scholarship. But—	18:00
Sonya Ramsey	[indistinct 00:18:03].	18:02
Florenza Moore Grant	Huh?	18:03
Sonya Ramsey	Where did they go to college? Did they go to—	18:03
Florenza Moore Grant	He went to Virginia State. And Gary and Van went to Central. Gloria went to Hampton Institute. And Carrie went to A&T.	18:05
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, okay. Oh goodness. And were they ever in school at the same time?	18:14
Florenza Moore Grant	Three.	18:19
Sonya Ramsey	Goodness. (laughs) Y'all had [indistinct 00:18:23]—	18:19
Florenza Moore Grant	I don't know how, I don't—And Gary was active in the [indistinct 00:18:28] at Central. And I had picked cotton all day long and then go out, get dressed, and drive up to Durham by myself. Be one and two o'clock coming home. I've always tried to support them in whatever they—I didn't always like what they were doing. Because I don't particularly, he's happy at it, but Gary could have a good paying job. He does all right because he's alone and he got three or four godchildren. But he's happy and he has really done a lot for this community.	18:23
Sonya Ramsey	He sure has. He sure has.	19:08
Florenza Moore Grant	And the older people around here, they were just pushed aside. And he takes up with them and he takes up calls a lot of the young boys not to have to pull time in jail. He put them in a—Get them out on service. You know, whatever you call it.	19:10
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, community service.	19:30
Florenza Moore Grant	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, And same way about the old people, the old ladies. And they called him the other day. This lady was real sick and wouldn't go to the hospital. I don't know what had happened to her, but they called Gary. And Gary's not that well acquainted with her. She doesn't tend to see the sickness or not. And they called Gary and asked him, said, "Mr. Grant, you the only somebody I know who can get her to go." But he couldn't get her to go, but he called the rescue squad and they came and picked up in Carolina.	19:32
Sonya Ramsey	Okay. I think I've finished all my questions on the tape.	20:01
Florenza Moore Grant	Okay.	20:03
Sonya Ramsey	Is there anything else I left out that you've done that I need to ask you about? That I haven't asked?	20:04
Florenza Moore Grant	No. Well, like I said, there's plenty things I have done, but I forgot them. You forget about that stuff. Just like I said about the man and the light pole. I've had a lot of stuff. I told you I had to get the mailman straightened out too. Also had a, well, that's nothing I done. But these White kids would come down here from just northern states, and to the camp, a interracial camp.	20:08
Sonya Ramsey	At the Franklin Center?	20:46
Florenza Moore Grant	Right.	20:46
Sonya Ramsey	Okay.	20:46
Florenza Moore Grant	And they always end up at my place, because other folks didn't have time for—I mean, for visits. And nothing to do, but they wanted to help us chop. "Ms. Grant been so nice, and come and supporting us when we come down here, blah blah blah." And they wanted to chop. And Matthew went out and bought holes, extra holes and put one of our regular help to five of them. And one of the girls lost her contact lens out there. And this old White mailman passed by and he liked to broke his neck, all them White.	20:50
Sonya Ramsey	Oh. Helping you out?	21:22
Florenza Moore Grant	And he told that, he didn't know what was going on down at the Grant's farm. But it was a whole lot of White folks in his field. And the word got around. So, I'm sure that maybe there's some things more important than I have told you.	21:23
Sonya Ramsey	Important to you now.	21:40
Florenza Moore Grant	But like I say—	21:40
Sonya Ramsey	When did your students come and help? What time period was that?	21:44
Florenza Moore Grant	In the summer. Oh, that was back in the—That was 15 years or more then.	21:56
Sonya Ramsey	And what was the result of the mailman telling about what he saw?	21:58
Florenza Moore Grant	Nothing. Nothing, because—	22:03
Sonya Ramsey	Nothing? Okay.	22:04
Florenza Moore Grant	Uh-huh. But I imagine knew they got a list. Gary had a right after school mess, where we were keeping them from having—Right after that, Gary stopped there to get some gas in Halifax. And two or three Whites came up behind him on different trucks. And the one in front pulled his gun out of the rack back then.	22:04
Florenza Moore Grant	Because Gary, when Gary was running for the school board, he told me, he said, "Mama, they likely to do something to me anytime." Because they didn't want him on that school board, because they know he was a fighter. But he got on it and the next term, he was not that anxious because he said that he couldn't—They had a good school board that year, but we had two Blacks in here as superintendent. Yeah. And the White men on the board, we got two White men on—The chairman of the board right now, chairman in private academy. Ain't that something?	22:28
Sonya Ramsey	On the board? He's a chairman of one of those academies?	23:07
Florenza Moore Grant	His children.	23:10
Sonya Ramsey	Oh, you said his children too.	23:10
Florenza Moore Grant	Are in a private academy.	23:11
Sonya Ramsey	And that's where the White people sent their children.	23:13
Florenza Moore Grant	Right.	23:15
Sonya Ramsey	Because they didn't want them to go the Black school?	23:15
Florenza Moore Grant	Right, right.	23:15
Sonya Ramsey	Hmm. Okay.	23:15
Florenza Moore Grant	I hope you have gained some—	23:22

Item Info

Title:

Florenza Grant interview recording, 1993 June 27

Date:

June 27, 1993

Creator:

Grant, Florenza Moore

Contributor:

Ramsey, Sonya Yvette

Description:

Name: Florenza Moore Grant; Date of birth: 1921-12-05; Place of birth: Northhamton Co., NC; Occupation(s): agriculture; service Station; Residence: Tillery, NC
Informant ID: 114; Interviewed by: Sonya Ramsey.

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Interview number: 382
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Florenza Grant interview recording, 1993 June 27

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1. Florenza Grant administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Florenza Grant interview recording, 1993 June 27

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