Lillian Mallary interview recording, 1993 July 02
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| Lillian Clark Mallory | In Northampton County. | 0:01 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. That's where you grew up? | 0:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, uh-huh. And obviously, I'm living in Halifax County now. So, I grew up in Northampton County and I lived over in Gaston. That's where I was raised, up there, over in Gaston. | 0:06 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 0:16 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But I don't really know nothing about my childhood life, because when I realized I was working on the farm and my mama had twelve children, six girls and six boys. So we just worked on a farm most of the time, but I did get as far as the 11th grade. | 0:19 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. Where'd you go to school? | 0:44 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | At Gumberry High. | 0:48 |
| Kara Miles | Gumberry? | 0:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. But see, it's not Gumberry High no more. It's Gaston High now. | 0:48 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 0:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So, they closed the school down. | 0:48 |
| Kara Miles | Where did you go to elementary school? | 0:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Gainsberry. | 0:50 |
| Kara Miles | Gainsberry? | 0:50 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. | 0:53 |
| Kara Miles | What was that school like? How many rooms did it have and how many teachers were there? Things like that. | 0:55 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, I really don't even—Look, I can't remember that far back. I really don't know, but I don't think it was too many. About 12, I reckon. 12 teachers. | 1:00 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. In the elementary school? | 1:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's right. | 1:12 |
| Kara Miles | Wow, that was kind of a big school. | 1:12 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. So, we went there to—Then, they were graduating at the 11th grade. | 1:13 |
| Kara Miles | Uh-huh. | 1:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But, see, I didn't ever graduate, but I passed the 11th. But on the account that I had to work on the farm. | 1:22 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. So you had to leave school the last year to go to work on the farm. | 1:29 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's right, to help the farm. Help my father farm. At least, that's all he could do then, was farming. There wasn't no like, bibs and them big companies and stuff like that. There was nothing like that, then, you know? Most would, anybody who had a group of children had to work on a farm to make a living. So that's what we did. | 1:36 |
| Kara Miles | Before that, when you were still going to school, were you able to go to school every day or were there some day you had to— | 1:59 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, some days I had to go to school. Like, bad days, where I couldn't work on the farm. | 2:05 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Okay. | 2:08 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And that's the way we did until I left and got grown. | 2:10 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Did you like school? | 2:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, uh-huh. I loved school. It was real good. | 2:18 |
| Kara Miles | Were you upset when you had to leave to work on the farm? | 2:23 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, because we didn't have no other choice, you know? We had to do like our parents said, because see then, we honored our parents. We ain't like the children now. They don't honor their parents. The parents have to honor them. See, we didn't have no other choice but work there. | 2:26 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Did any of your brothers or sisters get to finish, or did they have to— | 2:43 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, uh-huh. Some of them. The older one did. | 2:45 |
| Kara Miles | The oldest one? | 2:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. Yeah, they finished and I had one sister was a nurse. But all of my sisters and brothers are gone now and all of them grown. I've got two dead, two brothers dead. So we grew up pretty nice, for it being in the segregation time. | 2:49 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Tell me about, what was your house like that you grew up in? | 3:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, it was a big, two story house. | 3:16 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah? | 3:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. We had to get a big house and it was on the farm. It had an upstairs and downstairs. One for the boys and one for the girls. (laughs) Yeah, we grew up all right, I enjoyed, in my younger life. Along then, see, we didn't know nothing about no trashing and you know, disobedient children and stuff like that. There wasn't none of that. Everybody like neighbors, you know? Like my neighbor like that over there. She would help raise my mama's children like her raise hers, you know. But now see, you can't bother with nobody's children now. | 3:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And then they passed the law you couldn't whoop them no more and that's why I reckon that's what's making them so bad. (laughs) | 3:55 |
| Kara Miles | So, you were living on the farm. Was that your parents' land? They owned that land? | 4:05 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, uh huh. Yeah, that was my parents. | 4:11 |
| Kara Miles | How much land did they own? | 4:13 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Whew. About 40 acres, I reckon. They had a lot of land because you see, we always tend our own crop and after we finished tending our crop, we went and helped somebody else on their crop. | 4:15 |
| Kara Miles | You would go and help friends or people— | 4:29 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's right. | 4:34 |
| Kara Miles | —that you would get paid? | 4:34 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, yeah. | 4:34 |
| Kara Miles | You would get paid to help out people? | 4:34 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, help the other people. You know, get their crop in. | 4:34 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. What did you all grow? | 4:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Everything. Peanuts, cotton, corn and had nice, big gardens and stuff. Sure did. Grow some of everything. We grew, my daddy raised pigs and then so we had you know, meat and stuff. And he'd kill the hogs and put them in the smokehouse and smoke the meat, and made it a—what you call? Smoke meat his self. We raised our own stuff. We didn't have to go to the store for nothing but flour. We raised the wheat too, but we went there for cornmeal. We made our own molasses. They had a molasses machine thing where we made cane and had that there and grind it up. Whew, that was the prettiest sight you ever see in your life. | 4:41 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | See that stuff running them little trowels and down in there like that, til it come out molasses. I enjoyed my childhood life. | 5:30 |
| Kara Miles | So you liked farming? | 5:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, I like it now. I like outside, that's why I say outside most all the time. I love outside. This is where I was raised up outside and I had me a little garment that's so dry it dried up. | 5:43 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. | 5:56 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So that's why I was out there throwing a moss ball for a snake, because over there condemned. Nobody want to clean it up and I don't know whose land that is, but they won't clean it up. So that's what make it so bad over there, you know? I'm scared a snake's going to crawl over here. | 5:56 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. Do you know how your parents got their land? Did they buy it or did they inherit it from their parents? | 6:08 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | They probably did. They probably inherited, I think. Because I don't know my grandparents. I didn't know my grand mama, didn't know my granddad. I didn't know none of them and ain't none of my father's people living. Ain't none of my mama's people living. All them dead. Nothing but the cousins. | 6:16 |
| Kara Miles | Wow. Did your parents ever tell you things about your family? About your grandparents? | 6:39 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Nah, don't really have time. I don't think they had time to tell us too much about them. And then too, they was already gone. They might not even know, you know, they might have died before they even grown children or something. But they did tell me this time would be, you know, the parents would be just the children and the raise you know, longer it go on, you know, it'll be weak and wiser. And so that's the way it is, so a whole lot of stuff my parents told me and I'm living through it now. And it's amazing, you know?! | 6:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because when I was a child growing up and they used to tell me that, I said, "They don't know what they talking about. They're old people. These old people don't know what they're talking about." And I lived up to everything that I heard them say! Sure did. I never thought I would do. I never thought I would see it because they said, "We may not be here, but if y'all live long enough, y'all see it yourself. You know, like the children against the parents, parents against the children. And all this killing and stuff going on. They told us all that. How they know it, we don't—Because by me being a child, I didn't, I said, "Well, they probably don't know what they talking about." | 7:21 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And it's something. You know, something to think about. Now I'm living and seeing it myself. | 7:52 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm, so they were saying that was going— | 7:57 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That was going to happen. Uh huh. That was going to happen. Down through the years, if I live long enough, I see that. | 8:06 |
| Kara Miles | Wow, I wonder how they knew that. | 8:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I don't know how they knew it, but they would tell us around the table, you know? Saying our grace and stuff to eat and stuff, and they would tell us about the world, how it's going to change. How the people's going to change and stuff, and this is it. And I didn't, i never thought I would live to see it. I am 72 years old, and I never did thought I would see none of this stuff what they said. | 8:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And I tell my children, you know, about I used to pick cotton, you know? And my children don't even know what cotton is. Wouldn't know what it looks like. Peanuts and stuff like that; they don't even—And talking about, "I ain't never getting out there, pick no cotton like that." I used to pick 400 pounds of cotton. | 8:34 |
| Kara Miles | 400?! | 8:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | 400 a day. | 8:49 |
| Kara Miles | Wow! | 8:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And they pay us about $2 a hundred, on that. But along then I could take 25 cent and buy all the candy I could eat up. (both laugh) Sure could. It was amazing how things done changed and how high everything is, you know, and how there's tax and stuff. Along then, wasn't even no tax on nothing. I could get 25 cents girl, and go to the store and buy all the cookies and stuff, and Mary Janes. You know that kind of candy. You don't even know nothing about that neither. How old are you? | 8:51 |
| Kara Miles | 22. | 9:19 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | (laughs) You ought to know a little bit about it, though. | 9:19 |
| Kara Miles | I knew about Mary Janes. | 9:19 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, Mary Jane. Yeah, that Mary Jane candy, we could get five for a penny. Five of them little things that be about that long. You get five a penny. Them black cow and you could suck them things all day long. Couldn't eat them up to save your life. (laughs) | 9:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Sure did. I enjoyed my life. And I could tell, you know, what I like about it, even when I can tell my children, my grandchildren and stuff about it, you know? And they say I ain't done all that. I say, "Yes, I did." | 9:50 |
| Kara Miles | Well, tell me about it. | 9:59 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Ah! (laughs) | 9:59 |
| Kara Miles | I'll believe you. | 10:04 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, I did. I did all that. Sure did. Because all my sister's things is away except but two. I got two brothers here and myself. There's a girl and two boys. All the rest of them in the city and I got my baby sister in Hawaii. | 10:06 |
| Kara Miles | Wow. Are the rest of them in cities up north? | 10:21 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, uh huh. Up north in Philadelphia and New Jersey and New York. All of them up there, but they try to get me to go up there when I lost my husband. I had nine children myself and all mine grown and gone now. So I'm here by myself. | 10:26 |
| Kara Miles | Did your brothers and sisters leave as soon as they got old enough to go? | 10:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, that's right. Uh huh, that's the way they did. They left, as they got older they left. And went out on their own then, and all of them married and got children. | 10:52 |
| Kara Miles | Why do you think they went up north? | 10:59 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because I had an aunt up there and she wanted the girls. You know, wanted my mama's girls to come up there, and that's the way my sisters and things got away. See, when one got away, they find out how they good living. The other one go. They like that. And then I was going, but I had more children than the rest of them, so I had to stay on deck. I'm glad I did now. | 11:00 |
| Kara Miles | Why? | 11:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I say at least they got somewhere to come, you know? This is the home house for the whole family. All my sisters and things, when they come home now they come here. If I don't be staying here, see, they wouldn't have nowhere to come home. Yeah, we has a good time. We just had a family reunion at Memorial Day, and all my children and all my family was home. We had a wonderful time. Sure did, all of them. | 11:20 |
| Kara Miles | Good. | 11:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But ain't none of them coming home for the fourth because they were just here for, you know, the 30th. So they said they don't want to come home for the fourth, but I think they might be here in September. That's to be the last holiday in September. Be the last holiday for the year. Excuse me, Christmas. | 11:54 |
| Kara Miles | Tell me more about working on the farm. 400 pounds of cotton. | 12:12 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah. | 12:15 |
| Kara Miles | I'm still getting over that. | 12:15 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Shake peanuts. We used to carry two heap loads of—We used to carry, seem it was 12 of any height, you know. Then it was six rows to the stack and three of us get on one side, and three get on the other side. And we carry two heap loads down at the same time and the road be about long here to the schoolhouse, all that. And we would—Tell us to never pick a bale of cotton a day. See, all my sisters and stuff except for a few of them, I had one sister was scared of cotton and she used to holler all the time. We went, "I wonder what in the world she hollering for?" | 12:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And she was scared of the cotton because— | 12:50 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | It was so white. But along then, the cotton was so white and pretty. Fluffy. But now it ain't like that no more. | 12:50 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But then she was scared of the cotton and she be hollering, and we be wondering what she was hollering for. And come to find out, somebody took her and put her in a sheet of cotton, you know? They had sheets to where you tied the cotton up, you sewed your wedge, you know? And they put her in there and that's where they find out what was wrong with her. | 12:55 |
| Kara Miles | Because she'd been put in that and that scared her. | 13:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, yeah. That scared her that much more. Then we find out what was wrong with her, why she was hollering, you know, about the cotton. We had her in the cotton patch at first, you know, and she didn't want none of the stuff to touch. And she was scared of the cotton. And she was the only one to do no, you know, pick no cotton. Because she was, ain't never like it. But I used to love to pick cotton. It tore my fingernails and stuff all to pieces, you know, but I still love to pick it and shake peanuts and stuff like that. Pull corn, pull fodder. We had to pull fodder for the mules, you know? And we didn't have no tractors then. We had mules and stuff. We had to pull fodder and tie the buns up. I can't even tell you how I done it. Tied it up and hanging on the stalk. (laughs) | 13:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | It's a coincidence today. You is the only somebody I ever had to tell this to. I ain't never had to tell it to the children, because they wouldn't never even sit still enough for me to, for to realize. | 13:50 |
| Kara Miles | Well, I'm going to sit real still so you keep talking. | 14:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, so all this was good. All it was good. So I mean, yeah, I loved it. You come to the right person when you come to me to talk. Because I mean, I like to talk about the old times. It just gives a thrill, you know, to think about where you have come from. And then I say, "I know the Lord has blessed me," because I say, "I'm still able to get around and you know, tend to my own business and stuff. I'm blessed." | 14:13 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And all my other sisters and stuff, they're not as well as I am. But I got two of them older than I am, but they're kind of ill, you know? But I'm doing fine. So far, so good. | 14:35 |
| Kara Miles | Well, good. Tell me some more about the old times. You like to talk about the old times. | 14:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, old times. Yeah, that was my hobby. I just loved outside and in the woods. I knew just where to be after we get through farming and stuff, we knew they had to cut wood and save it for the winter. You know, for to have wood for the winter because that's all we had was a fireplace. We didn't have no heaters and that. | 14:55 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And then, I think I was a tomboy because I'd help the boys done all the work outside. I ain't do too much on the inside. I worked on the outside all the time and we used to climb trees, you know? All our neighbors get together and go down in the woods and climb trees. Lord, and I'm scared of snakes now, and I knew I was all over top of them snakes and ain't even know. I probably wouldn't even know what it would look like. Used to stay in the woods all the time. All of us used to stay in the woods and play, you know, like down on the hills and slide down the hills and stuff. | 15:15 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well now, you, I wouldn't go in there for now. You couldn't pay me to get in there now. Too much happening there and all them peoples and stuff in there, going to prison and stuff. Getting loose and hiding and stuff. Never seen so much stuff. I'm scared to death now. Scared. Scared at home, in the house. But see, that's on account of I'm getting older and now my nerves getting weak. | 15:47 |
| Kara Miles | So what other kind of things would you used to play? Said you used to play in the woods. What else would y'all do for fun? | 16:22 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We used to play mamas and had our baby. Know we had to make doll babies out of nut grass. I bet you don't know that. | 16:22 |
| Kara Miles | Out of nut grass? | 16:28 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | You don't even know nothing about that there. It's a bunch of grass, it's nut. You see that little grass where it growing up there in them weeds over there? | 16:28 |
| Kara Miles | Uh huh. | 16:38 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Look down there by that tree. | 16:39 |
| Kara Miles | Uh huh. | 16:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's nut grass. | 16:45 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 16:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Anyhow, up under there it got a root, like a baby's hair. You know the root to the grass is about that long. And so we'd take it out and clean it out, you know? With the dirty stuff? Shake it out and clean it and turn it over, and make us a grass baby. Whew, girl. We used to have a good time. | 16:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And neighbor's children and all. And see, we was neighborly then, and we had children and stuff. All us would get together, play, dollhouse and stuff like that. When we was bigger, you know, my mama and them in the house working, but they always kept us close to them all the time because we had to wash. And along then, we didn't have no washing machine. We had to wash with a foot tub. With a tub, you know? I don't know whether you see, the great big tub now. But that way we had to wash with that and a rub board. | 17:05 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And then we boil our clothes in the wash pot. You know what that look like? A big, Black wash pot. Sit on three bricks. It's a big iron pot, sit on three bricks and then you call it a wash, I mean iron pot. So we boil the clothes in that, see, to get them white. Didn't put bleach and stuff like that in. My mama didn't even use none of that. She made her own soap and that's what we washed the clothes, and I don't know what she put in the soap now, but the soap was just as pretty white as your paper. | 17:35 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But she made that soap and we had to get us a ball, you know, to cut it like you do a cake and that's what we wash with, and we cut up some and put it in the pot with the clothes and let them boil in there. And them clothes would be just so pretty on that line. Sure did. We come up the hard way. I tell you, we come up the hard way. Yes, sir. I enjoyed my life. | 18:06 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And you know, we didn't even know what fighting each other was. You know, like children fighting do. We didn't never fight. | 18:33 |
| Kara Miles | No? | 18:39 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We always mingling together, you know, the family. And then neighbors and stuff would get together and we were just looking for a good time. We weren't looking for no, you know, trash or nothing like that. And along then, we didn't never hear talk of nobody killing nobody and all that kind of stuff. Sure didn't. | 18:39 |
| Kara Miles | So, you said you never heard about nobody killing anybody. | 18:59 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Hmm-mm. | 19:00 |
| Kara Miles | Hmm. | 19:04 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I reckon they did, but see they weren't around, you know, in our neighborhood. I mean, they might've been way off, somewhere in like the foreign country or something like that. But see, we didn't have no TVs then where that we heard. That's like when President Kennedy got killed. I was in the cotton patch, picking cotton. And we heard it on the radio. We didn't even have the—along then, the family didn't even have too many radios because you didn't have time to listen to that. But somebody that heard it and you know, we stopped picking cotton. We didn't pick no more cotton that day. And that was a tragedy to the nation, you know. | 19:04 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. I was going to ask you, how did you react to hearing that? How did you feel about it? | 19:40 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, I tell you we really didn't know too much about the president and politics and stuff like that, you know, but my mom and daddy did tell us, said, "The president got killed and so we just not going to work no more today." And you know, that's probably what they told us. So we didn't work no more. You know, we called it, we said we're honoring his death. Because I didn't know nothing about no politics at that day. | 19:47 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And so that's what, we didn't have no more lickings and so that was a tragedy for a couple of weeks. You know, everybody was talking about it, what happened to the president and how he got killed and all that kind of stuff, but see we didn't know nothing about nothing like that. We just heard our mother and father and nextdoor neighbors and stuff talking about it. | 20:11 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. So you would get news from the radio. Was there any other way that you would get news? | 20:33 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. We didn't have no other way to get news. Nothing by then, and didn't too many people have radio. See, most the people was farming and stuff, and so you didn't have time to listen to no radio. And when night come, you were so tired. You took your bath and stuff, and you're ready to go to bed. And you be up at the morning at 6:00, ready to go to work again. So, we didn't get too much of what was going on. | 20:41 |
| Kara Miles | Did you have radios when you were growing up? Did you all have a radio? | 21:06 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's what I was saying. Growing up, we had one, but we didn't never listen to that. | 21:11 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 21:14 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We didn't never listen that. We was already in the fields or somewhere, working. Because we had to work from 6:00 to about 6:00 that night. You know, til near about dark. Then when we come home, then we got to get in our wood and milk the cows. You know, get all that stuff done before night. Then the next morning, we ready to go back to work. I worked hard when I come up. At least all my family did. At least all the people did, you know? The people then. | 21:15 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But you know, the old people are gone. There's a high level—Now, I reckon I'm just about one out of 100 because there ain't too many people could tell it. Hmm-mm, there's mighty few people could tell what they did in their lifetime. | 21:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And I tell you another thing what I used to do. When I was growing up, I used to go in the woods and find some weeds in the woods, called fireweeds. I know you ain't never heard tell about that. How old—your mother living? | 21:59 |
| Kara Miles | Uh huh. | 22:04 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | How old she is? | 22:04 |
| Kara Miles | 50. About 50. | 22:04 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | She ought to could remember a little bit! (Miles laughs) So we used to go in there and get fire weeds, trying to get us some lard. I don't know if you know what lard is or not. | 22:15 |
| Kara Miles | Uh huh, yeah. | 22:24 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But anyways, we used to boil these weeds and mix it, and put some lard in the grease with the water. You know, with the tub, and let it get hard. Put that, we didn't have no refrigerator then. The way we drunked our ice and had our butter, you know what we had to do? We had to put it down the well. | 22:24 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, okay. | 22:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We had to put it in the bucket and put it down in the well with a top to it, you know. Just hanging down the well and that's how we kept our stuff cold. We didn't have no Frigidaire's and stuff like that. And so, anything we had, they didn't even know what no ice was. Because they didn't have nowhere to freeze it then because didn't have nothing like that. Because we didn't have nothing but lamp lights. We didn't have no electric light. | 22:46 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. | 23:04 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Ain't have nothing but lamp light. So that's how we had to keep our food cold. But see, along then in the wintertime, you know, you didn't have to worry about the cold because it was so cold then, it would keep your food going. But in the summertime, but it didn't seem like it was just hot like it is now. Anyhow, we didn't take no chances. We took our stuff, you know, where we thought it would spoil and put it in a bucket and hang it down in the well. Let it touch the water and that's all we did. Let it touch the water, but we had a top on whatever we had in the bucket. | 23:08 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And then we made our butter. We had share butter and had a jug. I don't know if you know what that is. You ought to be in see some of that— | 23:36 |
| Kara Miles | I seen some of it. | 23:47 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, go to them there, what do you call them things? Something like a stockyard. You can see all that stuff. But anyhow, you can see all that old stuff. Next time you go to the stockyard, you go and look at all that. You see the iron pots and all that kind of stuff. That's where them people's have got that stuff now, in a stockyard. | 23:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So this churn, and so we had to churn our milk. We put the milk in the churn and the butter had to come from the churn. We had a churn there like, you know, we had a pile or something in there and we had a stick like that and we would churn until the butter come. Then after butter come, we skim the butter off and make it in little cakes, you know? And put that down in the well, in the bucket too. They had their butter to eat with the biscuit. Sure did. | 24:07 |
| Kara Miles | You would have to do that every day? | 24:31 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, we did do it about twice a month. | 24:33 |
| Kara Miles | Okay, and put the rest of it in the well? | 24:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, yeah. And the milk, we had to milk down there too because see, long then, I don't like milk. I reckon that's why I don't like milk because they made us drink it. Made us drink the milk, you know, the cow milk. And after I done milked that old cow and then I had to drink the milk. I don't want that milk then. I don't like milk today. | 24:39 |
| Kara Miles | I don't think I blame you. | 24:56 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Huh-uh. Nah, I had to milk that cow every day. Every morning. If I didn't milk him every morning, I milked him every night. But they made us turn, you know there was so many of us, they had turns to milking and I be glad when it come down to the other milker. Sometime I be saying to myself, but I tell you one thing. You couldn't say nothing, like about your parents and stuff. You couldn't say nothing and let them hear you because then you'd get a whooping. | 24:56 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Now then, when they tell you they going to whoop you now, you can put your foot on it because you going to get it. Now you, that's one thing. I know that's something that I had forgotten. Lord, when they told you they would whoop you, whew I'd be so scared, man. I'd go up those stairs, man, and put on me about five or six dresses. (Miles laughs) We didn't wear no pants then. We had, they made us wear dresses and my legs. I said, "Lord," I said, "What am I going to do for my legs," you know, keep 'em from whooping them, scarring them up. | 25:16 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And so I went down there and try to find me as long a dress as I could and put on me, so it wouldn't hurt me so bad. (laughs) Me and my sister, they laugh about that. We just get together and laugh about you know, how we used to do when papa say he going to whoop you. And we think he was going to forget it, you know, but he wouldn't forget it. He'll wait real good til we getting ready to go to bed and then that's when he get it. | 25:53 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And Lord, I'd be hollering just like he done killed me. But he would get you. He say he going to whoop you, you can say, yeah, you going to get that. We pulled together, you know? Like I said, "Man, papa said he going to whoop you tonight." I said, "Why? What I done?" "I don't know what you done, but he said he going to get you. I don't know what you done." And Lord, man. You ought to see me go and scrambled up, trying to find something to put on, keep from hurting me so bad. | 26:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And he would go down there in the woods and I don't know whether you heard tell of a bucket here or not a branch, it's a tree in the woods you can drink water out of, you know? You can cut it and the water run out of it. And all you had to do was put a cup up in there and they call it a branch tree. And the branches on them trees won't break for nothing. You can't break it. I don't care how hard you hit somebody. And that's what he would get to whoop us with. | 26:43 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | He did and that thing be long from here to that pole there. The switch, wouldn't nothing be on there but the long stem of the tree. And it be keen on that end, girl, and you know when that thing buckle up around your legs and—Whew. When he said he going to whoop me, man, I started to cry right then. Because I could feel it. (laughs) I started crying right there because I could feel it before he even get it. | 27:07 |
| Kara Miles | What kind of things would you get whipped for? | 27:40 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Something well, he had probably told us to do and we didn't do it. I don't know. It'll be something other he told us to do and we didn't do it. Or probably we forgot it or something, you know? But he told my other sisters, you know, he'd get me and I had forgotten what he'd told me to do. Probably I'd just forgotten. And Lord, I'm telling you the truth. We had a time, child. We had a time growing up, but our parents whipped us. When they said they going to get us, they got us too. | 27:44 |
| Kara Miles | So both of your parents would whip you. | 28:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm, yeah. Both of them would whip. But I'm glad, you know? I'm glad they did whoop us now. Because see, if they hadn't have whooped me, take God to what I'd have come to. And then I told my children the same thing, but I didn't whoop my children. I punished them. You know, like they wanted to go to a dance or they wanted to go to something to do at the school and place like that. I wouldn't let them go if they didn't do like I tell them to do. I punish them. | 28:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And so now, all of them grown. They say, "Whew, I'm so glad you done it." Then the other children that come along with them, you know, done strayed away and done bad things and stuff. And so, now they appreciate what I done. | 28:33 |
| Kara Miles | So, why did you decide not to punish your children— | 28:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because I know how it hurt me and I didn't want to. I said, "I'm going to find me another way to hurt 'em without whooping them." So that's what I did. I didn't whoop my children. I just punished them, you know? Just to let them stay at home and wouldn't let them go. And you know, made them work or do something around the house or something like that. Because I didn't want them to come up like I done. | 28:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But that was the best way, I reckon. Whooping them. But my children mind me. My husband died in '62 and I raised all my children right by myself. | 29:12 |
| Kara Miles | Wow. | 29:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And every one of them mind, til they got grown and left. And they honor me right now, and so I say I got something to be thankful for because it too many mothers that can raise children by themselves. Boys and girls. And we are real close, the children and me are real close. | 29:22 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And I got a granddaughter, she stay in Roanoke Rapids, and she come down here to see me. You know, I wish she was here so she could hear. I know she'd be tickled to death. Because I started telling her to come down here. | 29:41 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And so, her mother died too when she was young. She was a baby, so I had to raise three of my grandchildren. So, everybody say they were my children. You know, my other children too, because she got killed. Her husband got killed in a car accident. Then she got killed in a car accident. Then I had a son get killed in car accident. | 29:55 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So I've been through the whacker. But still I'm blessed. | 30:13 |
| Kara Miles | How else do you think—I know you're different from your parents in that you punished your children in a different way. How else do you think that your life is different from your parents' life? Or the way you act, or thought, was different from your parents? | 30:25 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, I mean, my parents was nice. Me, I appreciate what they done after I got grown, but like I say, I thought they were the meanest parents you ever seen when I was growing up, just like my children thought I was the meanest parents they ever seen. But you know, it take that, I reckon you know, to make you realize. | 30:39 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And so, I just didn't want to bring my children up like how I come up, you know? At least with, I couldn't bring up like I come up because see, they didn't have nowhere to work. There ain't no cotton and stuff like that. They ain't had that stuff to do, because they always worked in fast food, places like that. They didn't have nowhere for them to work at on a farm or do nothing like that. | 30:55 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | The whole life different for them than it was with me because wasn't no fast food store. And we had old country stores where we had to go out there and at least we didn't have to buy nothing because my daddy raised everything on the farm. Everything but a meal and flour. We made every bit of the rest of the stuff. Peas and corn, and then my mama canned things up in jars, you know, to have for the winter. And I came, I don't even know how to do that right now. | 31:19 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And to keep, I don't know how it keep. You know, these jars, she's cooking it, put it in them jars and all she had to do was open it up and warm it up. And I can't put nothing in a jar and keep it for nothing. I have tried it and it's spoiled before I even get through it. I'm through with it this year. I'd rather go and get mine and buy it out a can. Buy it in a can. | 31:54 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And now, I definitely don't have to worry about it now because ain't nobody eating it. I don't hardly ever cook but once a month. I don't cook now, because I don't eat that much no way. | 32:14 |
| Kara Miles | So your mother didn't teach you those things because you were the tomboy when you wanted to be outside. | 32:28 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yes, uh huh. Yeah, I was outside. That's why you can't hardly catch me. A lot of people call, "Where you been?" And I be out there fooling around just like I was. Because I had a [indistinct 00:32:45] probably done change your mind. That's what I had said to myself. And I said, "Well, I'm going out here and throw this here mothball around at the bushes and stuff, because it's still drying." And see, them snakes and things is looking for water. They tell you, you know, to look out for them when you go out in the yard and stuff. | 32:31 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because that lady what stay over there in that house over there and last week she said a snake was laying on her doorstep. And now you know good and well, I would've dropped dead. I'm scared of snakes and scared of rats. And big rats and things come over to that house over there. | 32:57 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, Lord. Oh, yeah. I see it. | 33:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | See it? It ain't nothing but a snake house. And rats harbor and everything over there. And the lady that own the house, she dead. And then her son, he in the rest home. Ain't nobody, you know, there to clean it up, but the state said it—I mean, the housing authority people said when they come through here, they were going to clean it up. But they got to get permission to do it. | 33:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I even fooled the FBI over there and told them somebody was dead in that house. (laughs) I thought maybe they would get it cleaned up, you know. And he said, "Nah, they won't do nothing," but I had all them cops and things coming up here, girl. Going over there, looking at the house. And he said wasn't nothing in there but a rug and the stinky where the rain done rained and the whole top done fell in. He said, rug was stinking. I said, you know, "Well, there's a crack house or something. We need to do this." I said, "I'm scared here." | 33:39 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And Lord, I'm telling you the truth. They ain't never come back. Talking, "We are going to see can we find somebody to get here, clean up the place." Ain't done nothing. I said, "I'm going to fool them back over there again." It could be a crack house. Who knows? | 33:59 |
| Kara Miles | I don't know. I don't know if anyone's going in that house. (laughs) | 34:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Huh? | 34:10 |
| Kara Miles | I don't know if even crack dealers would go in that house. | 34:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I bet they would. Some people do stay there. | 34:22 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah? | 34:25 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh. You take anybody, girl, like drunkards or anything like that, they'd be too glad to go there and stay. They usually have a shed over their head in the corner somewhere. | 34:32 |
| Kara Miles | How long have you lived here? | 34:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Ever since I built this house in '62. | 34:36 |
| Kara Miles | '62? | 34:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. | 34:36 |
| Kara Miles | And where you coming straight from the farm then? Where'd you live before you lived in this house? | 34:44 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, Lord. Well, I was raising children then. When I left from the farm, I stayed in Virginia. Over in Skipper, Virginia, for two years. And I had two girls then, and then I come back over in Gaston and I moved down to a place called Pleasant Hill. I stayed down there about two years and I just went different places. | 34:46 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So then when my oldest girl got big enough to go to school, that's when I moved to Weldon. So, I moved to Weldon on First Street down there and so, she was ready at school just like I'm up here. So this is why that I bought this land and built here at the school, you know. So they'd be real close to the school because I didn't have no transportation or nothing to take them that day. There weren't no buses, you know. Weren't that many bus, and so I moved, I built here. But Lord, I had never knew I be this close to this school. | 35:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I hate that I have to pay taxes on the school, ain't got nary a child in the world going there. All my children are grown now, grandchildren and everything. | 35:34 |
| Kara Miles | I want to go back to some things we were talking about earlier. Like, did you ever finish telling me the lard story? You were telling me about weeds—You used to go and pick fire weeds and put it in lard and boil it. I don't think you finished that. | 35:47 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, well what we done, we put the lard in there with this fire weed and cooked it. Cooked the stuff til the smell got into the lard, and then see, that made something like a grease. I have smelled some grease in the store like that. You know, some of the grease in them little cup? | 36:04 |
| Kara Miles | Uh huh. | 36:24 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So then, what we done then, we took this after we—We didn't put too much water in the stuff, so most of it was grease. So what we done, we put that in a bucket and put it down the well too, and let it got hard. And when it got hard it was greasy, so you grease your hair. It would make your hair go down your back. | 36:24 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, okay. | 36:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I have seen some there now. Like, if I go in the woods or go somewhere now, you know, like on the lake? I see some of that stuff. I know exactly what it look like right now. That's the only way we done, but I wouldn't even dare to mess with that stuff now because Lord, I take it out now and still ain't grow. Yeah, that's way we did. We made it and it just hard like that grease in the cup. | 36:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | See, the lard got hard. It wasn't no water. See, they had to turn the lard then, see? Once it got cold, it got hard. | 37:07 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm, and that would make your hair— | 37:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, and that's what we knew for growing our hair. Didn't even have to buy you grease out the store. | 37:12 |
| Kara Miles | How did you learn to do that? | 37:21 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | My parents told us about it. Told us how to fix it. I have really used that. I haven't fixed that myself since my mother been dead. | 37:24 |
| Kara Miles | Do you remember any other home things like that's, that you would like, I don't know. Like, roots or anything that you would use when you were sick? Or any of the home remedy things like that? | 37:31 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, you know like those sweet gum leaves on the tree? You could get that like if you have diarrhea, you know? Your stomach upset? | 37:47 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. | 37:54 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | You can get that and boil it and drink it, and that'll check your bowels up. My mama used to tell us to do that. But I wouldn't mess with that stuff now for nothing in the world. But see, along then there wasn't no chemicals and stuff like people is spraying on them trees and stuff? Long then, they didn't have nothing like that. Everything was just plain what you, you know when we were growing up, everything was plain. Wasn't no, they didn't use no chemical stuff like you see with your airplanes flying, spraying. | 37:56 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | See, that stuff was getting on everything on the ground. So that's why you can't do it now, because it'll kill you. And then like I say, all these disease and stuff, that's where they come from. You can't drink this and you know, it caused you to have heart trouble and high cholesterol and high blood pressure and all that stuff. But this is chemicals will do. Can't drink the water with the water pollution and stuff, you know? It ain't pure. | 38:22 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | So long then, I got a well. Talking about some good water out that well, child. I'm a tell you know the truth, I know it's probably the best water you ever drunk out that well. And that was pure, see? Because it was a spring that was running in that well and I was getting it out of the earth. That's the difference in the water. And the water where I drink now, you know, we're drinking town water and stuff now. It's not good as that, because it got that fluorine in it. Chlorine or something. And you can't drink it ice cold. And you know it ain't healthy for you, but I used to go down there and get that water out that well and drink it just like it is. And talk about something good. It's just like ice water; don't even have to put no ice in. | 38:52 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And they condemned that, you know. Wouldn't let us use it. So everything, we have to pay for now. Everything you get, you have to pay for. Ain't nothing free no more. | 39:33 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Can you think of any other of those home remedy kind of things? | 39:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Nah, I reckon that's about all, I reckon. I can't think of nothing else right now. You got me off to talking and was right on about my business there. You was picking that one, I got the talking there. I think that's all I can tell you now. I can't think of nothing else. | 39:50 |
| Kara Miles | Okay, well we'll go on to something else then. You were talking about playing earlier, like all the neighborhood children and stuff. Did White people live near you? | 40:12 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. | 40:30 |
| Kara Miles | All Blacks? | 40:30 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | All Black people. See, there was segregation then. Them White folks' children stayed in the city part and we was on the farm. And see, they didn't know nothing about no farm. Now the White people is farming now. And everything, I tell you another thing—fishing? You know that's where we got our fish from, fishing. You know, from the creeks and stuff. But now, they won't even allow it. They got poach signs on the banks. You can't go fishing no more, and that's where we caught a lot of fish at, for to eat. You know, when we were growing up. I still love to fish right now. I fished week before last. I went down on the pond, you know. It was this White person's farm, so I know the girl. You know, she knowed the man so he asked her, could we fish there and he said yeah. | 40:30 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And I caught perch wide as my hand there. Whew! Girl, I love to fish. I don't like a fish now for nothing. You can't get me to eat that fish. I catch them and give them away. Sure do. I love to fish. I always love to fish. We have a little stick, you know, and put a little line on and get us a hooker. We couldn't go to no store and buy no thing like this, already hooked up. We made our own hook because fish would go on the bait. Our little hole, man, about as deep as from here to that thing there. | 41:00 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's why we found so much to do, you know? To take care of ourselves. We go to, we get us a little bucket and go on down there and dig us a worm girl. Go on there and catch us a whole bucket full of fish. Bring them back and clean them, and mama cook. We had chickens. We raised chicken and eggs. We raised everything to eat. Everything was pure then. They had eggs, girl, about big around as that. Them hens raised some good eggs and stuff. I don't even like eggs either. | 41:32 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Sure don't. I don't like none of it, but I like molasses, though. | 42:06 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. | 42:08 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. Like me some. I eat enough of that stuff when I was—Molasses anf fatback meat you know? And I don't eat none of that no more because I have the high blood pressure. And so I told her I like molasses. I ain't going to never give away my molasses. Sometimes, when you go in there and get you a hot biscuit, man, and get you some molasses. That's all you need and a cup of coffee. | 42:08 |
| Kara Miles | Now, did you all used to make the molasses on your farm? Or there was somewhere you would go to? | 42:29 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, there was somewhere. A man would have the machine. And then the farmers would raise the cane and carry it there, you know? And he'll grind it up for them and make a syrup. Molasses for to last us the whole year, sometimes next year. We didn't have to grow it every year, but that was nice. | 42:34 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But seem like somewhere, ain't been too long ago, I went somewhere and I was—I been traveling now. I been retired since '85 and I been traveling every year. I went to New England last year and I went up on a boxcar that was about as long as that bus. And I reckon they had to have had so many people on that thing. I went so high up in the air. It was hailing, sleeting, raining, doing something of everything. And I had on shorts. I had on shorts and I like to freeze. | 42:53 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And the lady didn't tell us that she would take us on a tour or nothing like that, you know? And we didn't know we was going because it was hot, it was 100 degree on the ground. But up in that sky, girl, we went so far up in there and I said, whew I shut my eyes. I say I knew I'd never see my children or nobody never no more, because I didn't never think I would come back down. I had my children about the top of some list. | 43:22 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But that's the scaredest I ever been on a trip in my life. And then we went in eight states on that trip. We stayed two weeks and we went in eight states, in Maine, in Canada, New Mexico, Missouri, and I don't know where we didn't go. I enjoyed it though. | 43:36 |
| Kara Miles | Good. Did you ever used to do any traveling back— | 44:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, we didn't never go nowhere because I stayed. After I moved to Weldon, after I got married and moved to Weldon—to Rocky Mount. Hadn't never been there, girl, in my life. And I hear people talking about "Rocky Mount, Rocky Mount." It ain't been too long since I been going there. And I said, "Wonder where in the world the Rocky Mount is." Then I hear people talking about Rocky Mount. It ain't but 35 miles from right here and I been here all these years' time, hadn't went anywhere near there. Sure did. | 44:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But I didn't do too much going, because see, because raising my children and stuff, you know? Didn't have time to do no traveling stuff til I retired. Because I worked, you know, try to survive for my kids. | 44:39 |
| Kara Miles | What kind of work did you do? | 44:49 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I done restaurant work. | 44:50 |
| Kara Miles | Restaurant? | 44:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. | 44:51 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 44:52 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I worked in restaurants and that's all I ever did. Restaurants. Wish I had have went in a mill or something, you know. Maybe could've got more earning, you know now, than what I did then. Wasn't too much to that. | 44:54 |
| Kara Miles | What did you do in the restaurant? | 45:06 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Some of everything. Cooked, and washed dishes, and clean up. You know, grow up and done everything. | 45:07 |
| Kara Miles | Mm-hmm. Were these White restaurants? Black owned restaurants? | 45:14 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh huh, yeah. Uh huh, they were White restaurants. | 45:16 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. Talking specifically about back during segregation and everything, you were working for Whites then? Were you working at the White restaurants and things back then? | 45:21 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, but the restaurants where I was working was White people. Yeah, they was White. | 45:33 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. How did you feel working there? How did they treat you? | 45:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, they treated us good. They treated us good and see, I had never worked out, you know, after I left the farm, and this is after I was grown. After my husband died and so that's when I went out to work. Somebody had to take care of the children. So I went out and got me a job and that was at the New Yorker Motel on 301. | 45:41 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, okay. | 46:00 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's the first place I ever worked at. So I went from that, to Lakewood Truck Stop on 95. So I worked that til I retired. | 46:00 |
| Kara Miles | And your husband died in? | 46:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | He died in '61. | 46:12 |
| Kara Miles | Okay, and so before then you stayed at home? | 46:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's right. And raised his kids, that's right. Mm-hmm. | 46:18 |
| Kara Miles | What did your husband do? | 46:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, he worked at the mill, over here, you know, mills in Roanoke Rapids. That mill down there. Patterson Mill down in Roanoke Rapids. You know, he worked at mills and he had a good job. | 46:22 |
| Kara Miles | That there were no White people who lived near you growing up. Did you ever see White people growing up? Where would you see Whites when you were growing up? | 0:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | When we went to town or went by the house or something, but they was nice. The people were nice when we saw them. I mean, they to their self and we were to our. Didn't bother us and we didn't bother them. I don't know why they hate the Black people so bad, because see, the Black people is the one what made them what they is. But see, them old people, their parents and stuff, you see, probably had gone on and left what they had for them, you see. I reckon they thought the Black people going to try to take what they had. | 0:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But see, the Black people, after they started getting an education and stuff, along then the books where the White people had at school, the Black people didn't have. They had different books from what they had. Now, all of them going together now. See, the White and Black going to school together. They can't separate them now because see, due to desegregation then. But they still got private school, because there's a private school up here from me. | 0:48 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. You said, "The books were different." Do you know what was different about the books? | 1:12 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, I don't know what was different. I didn't never see none of them, but I heard the people talking about they wasn't like the Black people book. They were giving them different book. What was in them book now, I never seen. I know they said they don't like them, so I don't know what was in there. | 1:17 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. You never had any problems with White people? | 1:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. Ain't never had no problem. I had a friend. After I growed up and started raising my children and stuff, I had a girlfriend. She used to stay with me. I used to stay with her all night, and she had children. Their children slept with my children, and we stayed together clean until they died. We were just like a family. | 1:48 |
| Kara Miles | That was a White friend? | 2:08 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. She was White. | 2:09 |
| Kara Miles | How did you get to be friends with her? | 2:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because we moved right aside of them, and it was changing then from segregation to— But it had never changed, but it was changing. The people started changing themself about that. | 2:12 |
| Kara Miles | When was this? About what year was this that you're talking about? | 2:24 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because I used to get down there, I don't know what year. That was the year before my husband got killed. I reckon it was about '46 or '47. I reckon about like that. | 2:30 |
| Kara Miles | You said, "Things were changing." | 2:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, they was changing then. Some of the people that wanted to be with the Black people started changing themself before desegregation. When did segregation change? I can't even think of that year. (laughs) | 2:44 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | It still ain't changed because it's still segregation. Right there, you won't believe it, you go to Roanoke Rapids. I see the store up there. I went yesterday. Ain't a Black person in there. I said, "How come they ain't segregated, they ain't got no Black people in there." Everywhere you go now, they've been sticking Black people in there, but this place didn't have no Black in there. I can't think where it's at now. I sure went in there, wasn't a Black in there. I don't even like to spend my money where there's nothing but White at. | 2:57 |
| Kara Miles | Tell me about segregation, what segregation was like then. | 3:37 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, they stayed to theirselves and the Black stayed to them. They didn't have nothing to do with the Black people. But they said a White man been going with a Black woman all the time. That's why we different colors. That's what my parents has told us because they went with the maids, where they work for them. When the Colored person would work for them, they made them have sex and stuff with them, and that's how we got mixed up. The White man been going with the Black woman all the time. So when the Black man started going with the White women, that's when the stuff hit the ceiling. At first, they were killing Black people. The men was killing the Black men at the time. | 3:41 |
| Kara Miles | Did you ever know anything about any of that? | 4:23 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. I ain't know nothing about that. I just heard. I usually heard my parents talk about it. Ain't know nothing about that. Now, a whole lot of them done married plenty of White girls and Black boys, have children and everything together. Folks don't even pay no mind now. Ain't no need because that's what they want. Then the parents would run them away from home, wouldn't let them come back to the house. The White people wouldn't let they daughters come back no more. Told them that "You get on out of there and you can stay," and all that kind of stuff. They girls "So well and good." She said she love him and she going to stay with him. She said she married him, she going to stay with him till she die and there ain't nothing they could do about it. What they could do about it now but hate him? | 4:24 |
| Kara Miles | What kind of things would your parents tell you? | 5:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | What? | 5:09 |
| Kara Miles | You were saying that you heard your parents talk about White men and Black women and things like that. What other kind of things would your parents say about Whites or Whites and Blacks and things like that? | 5:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, they wouldn't of said too much about it around them, I reckon, because see, they told us how they used to make them go with them when their wives and stuff was gone and all that kind of stuff. They didn't have no—They had to try to survive for their families. Some of them didn't have no husband and so they couldn't even have no other choice. I heard my mother say, "That's how the races got mixed up like that." She wouldn't tell us too much about it. She might not know no more about it than I did, but I reckon she heard some more ladies' things, some of the people her age talking about it. That's where the news got around as much as it did. | 5:23 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But you take out an old person and stuff, they didn't too much talking around the children and stuff, telling you about nothing important and stuff like that. That's one thing they wouldn't do, and they wouldn't talk around children either. Because if you come around looking in there, they say, "What you looking for? Go on out there and play." They wouldn't even let you be around looking in the eye, like you see. I tell my children, I said, "That something I ain't never done." Because when my momma had come in there, like you come up here now, you wouldn't even see us no more until you left. But children now ain't going nowhere. You tell them, they still won't go. | 6:06 |
| Kara Miles | Do you ever remember hearing of the Ku Klux Klan or anything in the area where you lived? | 6:52 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. | 6:57 |
| Kara Miles | Nothing like that. | 7:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I heard that here lately, the last year by the Ku Klux Klan and stuff and killing all them people down in Wilson and down in Raleigh and all that kind of stuff and marching in the street. But you knew it was plenty of them here, but you can't tell them, not till they put them hoods on. Because I know a lot of Ku Klux Klan live in Roanoke Rapids, White people, but they're nice. As long as they ain't got them hoods on, they're nice because they figure you would never buy nothing from them if you knew what they was. So the only time they get ready to strike and stuff, they got to put them hoods on. If you kill them, you'll find out who they is. | 7:02 |
| Kara Miles | But you don't remember any of that? | 7:37 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, I don't know nothing about that. I mean, I see them, but the only thing I see them was on the TV. Ain't never seen them group in person because they don't do nothing around here like that. They go over to the big city, when you see them then in cities like Raleigh and Durham and places like that, protesting stuff. I reckon this place is too small, especially the little town of Weldon. I ain't never seen it in Roanoke Rapids. And Roanoke Rapids, it have been a time when dark come, a Black person couldn't be caught up there. | 7:39 |
| Kara Miles | Really? | 8:16 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's when there was segregation, sure enough. The Roanoke Rapid people didn't like the White people, and they didn't like the Black people, period. They didn't want to see them. Then they all over the city in Roanoke Rapids, mixed all up with the Whites right side by side. | 8:17 |
| Kara Miles | Was it like that where you were? | 8:34 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, uh-uh. That just lately got like that, and they wouldn't have been like it now if it hadn't been for the housing. People, they're putting them anywhere they can get. So they the one that broke all that stuff up because people weren't able and on the housing authority and stuff, see, they paid the rent and stuff. Anywhere they see where they can get a house, they put them there, Black or White. That was a good organization when they come out with that. I think that broke up a whole lot of stuff, sure did. | 8:36 |
| Kara Miles | The housing authority, that's what you said? | 9:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. Yeah. | 9:12 |
| Kara Miles | When you were coming along, would you ever see the signs, the segregation signs, like Colored and White on the water fountains or anything? | 9:16 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah. I did see, but I never went in the back though. I don't go in the back of nothing no how. That was in the back, but see, when I worked for them people, I didn't have to go in the back to see you couldn't come in the front and stuff. See, then they say you couldn't come in the front, but see, after I started working for that, we always went in the front. We'd never go in the back. That was on the back for the Black people, but I heard my parents talking about it. That was before our time, I think. That lady, she broke that up when she sat in that bus. | 9:26 |
| Kara Miles | What now? | 10:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I said, some lady broke the segregation on buses. I can't call her name. She dead now, and she broke that up for segregation on trains and buses and stuff because she got right up in front and wouldn't move. That was the NAACP. | 10:06 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. | 10:23 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | That's a good organization for the Black. | 10:24 |
| Kara Miles | Do you remember when that first started in the area where you were living? Do you remember when the NAACP first started? | 10:27 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. There ain't never been that segregation close around me because everybody, we always mingled together. It was way back. That was back before my time, I think, when all that stuff, the real segregation. They said the worst part was in Georgia, in Lenox, Georgia. That's really where they had a big mess. I went down there to Martin Luther King's site, and I went down there and viewed them, all of his activities and stuff. I done been everywhere now but California in the United States. I'm getting ready to take another trip now going to Disney World. | 10:35 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. I wanted to ask you about, you told me about playing in the woods and stuff for fun. What did you do for fun when you were a teenager? What kind of things did you all do? | 11:24 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We didn't have no fun then. | 11:40 |
| Kara Miles | Oh, no. | 11:40 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | We didn't have no fun when we were teenagers because we had to work, and then we had to go home and study our books the time we go to school. I parents didn't even give us a break, because I reckon I was 18 years old before I even thought about a boyfriend or something like that because I didn't have time. They didn't even give you time because they would work you, tell you, you didn't go out, you couldn't have a baby. A baby would grow up in a stump and all that kind of stuff. That's what the parents would tell us. | 11:41 |
| Kara Miles | That a baby could— | 12:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. Be born in a stump. We would be scared to even look at a boy. Didn't even look at them. | 12:12 |
| Kara Miles | What happened to girls who got pregnant before they were married? | 12:26 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, some of them weren't scared. They weren't scared to get out there, but they had to take care of them children the best way they could because they probably didn't even marry the boy. | 12:32 |
| Kara Miles | How were they seen by other people? | 12:42 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, their parents would talk about them like, "Oh, you know that girl, she went on out and had a child." My parents would scare us. My parents would tell us, "Y'all don't go out there and do like this one done and y'all going to be out there catching it yourself," and all that kind of stuff. What they tell us, we believed it. We were scared. They kept us on the scared list all the time. They were fooling a lot of the time, but we thought that was true. I reckon it's a good thing they did because we'd have been wild like some of them ones where the parents did a streak on them. I said, "I'm glad they did." As I think about it now, I be glad they did what they done. The only thing I didn't like about it, whipping me. I couldn't stand that switch. | 12:50 |
| Kara Miles | How old were you when they stopped whipping you for things? | 13:39 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I reckon about 10 or 12. | 13:41 |
| Kara Miles | How would they punish you after that? | 13:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, they would work us, make us do work, unnecessary work. Keep us busy and stuff where we wanted to be entertaining the boyfriends and stuff. They'd come around and make them work. If we had a boyfriend, they'd put them to work, what they'd be doing to make them work. They was tough. | 13:47 |
| Kara Miles | And the boyfriends would do that? | 14:09 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, so they could be there so they could talk with the girl. Yeah. See, they heard of the parents anyway. Like my parents and I would mind their parents, whatever they tell us, we'll mind each other. See, the parents, that's the way they raised children. They took the whole neighborhood to raise the children because like I say, if you do anything, they say, "I'm going to tell your parents on you." So we'd be just as scared that they were going to tell them what we'd done. We mind them just like they children mind us, but it's no more like that now. | 14:10 |
| Kara Miles | How old were you when the boys could start coming over? | 14:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I had to be about 15 or 16, just sitting talking. At 9:00, they had to be gone. | 14:51 |
| Kara Miles | Were there certain nights of the week they could come over? | 15:02 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah. Wednesday night and Sunday night, and we'd sit out and talk. After we'd talk, we'd see each other at school and talk about, "Why your daddy and momma call 9:00 on us?" I said, "Because we had to go to bed and get up early the next morning." I said, "Y'all had to do the same thing." They said, "Yeah, but we could've stayed a little while longer." | 15:04 |
| Kara Miles | When did you actually was able to start going out with boys? | 15:32 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I had to be about 18, then I started going. Then they didn't mind me going out then because I had learned the road and how to take care of myself and all that kind of stuff. Started going out and I'd go to church together, and we'd go to Sunday school. I did like that until I got about 21. Then when I decided to get married, then I said, "Well, let's get married and have some children." He said, "You want some children?" I said, "Yeah." I ain't know I'm going to have all that many children. Lord, I said—But I'm glad I got the children because they was real helpful to me. | 15:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because some people didn't have none, and like I say, if you get married and have a family, you got something to look forward to. Nobody else ain't going to wait on you like your own child, and then some of these children now turn against you now, won't do nothing for you. But I'm glad I got my children because here, you never know when you need somebody to bring you a glass of water. You don't never know what our condition be. I said, "Thank God." I say, "I got somebody to come to my rescue when I need it." | 16:11 |
| Kara Miles | But you said you didn't know at that time that you were going to have so many. | 16:59 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. I didn't want all that many children, but I'm glad I got them now. | 17:00 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. | 17:01 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I mean, had them then. But I only got seven living now. | 17:03 |
| Kara Miles | Was there a way back then to not have children? Was there birth control or anything? | 17:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, wasn't nothing like that, but there was a lot of people didn't have no children. I know plenty didn't never have no children. They wanted children, but they couldn't have none. But I wanted children, but I ain't want that many children. I always said, "I'd like to have one or two children." There's plenty of them that didn't want nothing like that. They didn't even know what a birth control, nothing like that, ain't never took no birth control pill. If they had been out, see, I wouldn't have had all them children. (both laugh) I told my children, I said, "Lord," I said, "with all this, had it been out," I said, "y'all wouldn't be here." | 17:15 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | What they told me, "I'm glad you didn't know what it was." Said, "We wouldn't be here." They wouldn't! Sure wouldn't. See, you take the children now, they have more children now than they did before the birth control come. But you know what they having them for now? To get money, get a check. Now, who going to have a child to get a check? They don't know the responsibility for a child. It gets sick and it's got to have clothes, got to feed. No way, I wouldn't want that check for having a child. | 17:56 |
| Kara Miles | You're saying that when you all would go out, you would go to church? | 18:40 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. Yeah, we'd go to church and Sunday school. My parents were Christian people. They kept us in church on Sundays, make us go to Sunday school every Sunday. I go to Sunday school now every Sunday. I like Sunday school. That's where you learn at. And church, I go to church every Sunday, but I'm a Baptist. I'm not Sanctified. | 18:42 |
| Kara Miles | A what? | 19:06 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I said, I'm not Sanctified. I said, I'm a Baptist, because Sanctified people go from sun up to sun down. What is you, a Baptist or what? | 19:07 |
| Kara Miles | Baptist. | 19:16 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I like church and I like good preaching and singing and stuff like that. | 19:17 |
| Kara Miles | You liked church when you were growing up? | 19:17 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. Yeah. I liked church. He didn't have no trouble about getting us to church. When we get up there Sunday morning, we eat breakfast and say our grace and stuff, prayers and stuff, take us a bath. Next thing, we're going up. We didn't have no way to get to church but walk, but we weren't that far from the church. We was right at the church where we lived. Because I had to walk four miles to the schoolhouse to go to school. We didn't have no way to get there. I'd be so cold when I get there, my hands and feet and all be numb. The children now don't even want to ride to school. God done blessed them. The Lord done blessed them so they can get to school. And anywhere you live at, there's a school bus could pick you up. | 19:27 |
| Kara Miles | Did your church meet every Sunday back then? | 20:18 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. Yeah. | 20:21 |
| Kara Miles | You met every Sunday? | 20:21 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. Yeah, every Sunday we went to church. If we didn't go to church, we went to Sunday school. | 20:22 |
| Kara Miles | Do you remember your baptism? | 20:31 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. Our baptism in the creek. They didn't have no pool then. That creek run right back of the church where I was baptized in, and the snakes and stuff all in there, girl. What if a snake had come up there? | 20:33 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But at one time a man, he was older than I was, so he was telling about—They say it was the truth and said the preacher had baptized all of the rest of the children under him. He was older, he was. He couldn't talk. The man was tie-tongued. Every time the preacher would hold him down for the baptize, they'd hold you like that for the baptizing. | 20:43 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Every time he'd catch that man, he said, "Don't you see that?" He was trying to say creature or a snake, and he was tie-tongued and he couldn't say it. He was saying it, but the preacher couldn't hear what he was saying. Every time he'd go to carry that man down, he'd say, "Ah-ah-ah-ah—" he would say, "a snake." The man here knew what he said when he said, "A snake," but he couldn't understand what he said. The man looked up and saw that great big snake. He never baptized that man, sure didn't. He wouldn't let him carry him underwater, and I don't blame him. I wouldn't have went under there either. He didn't baptize him that day, but he might've baptized him that day. But I don't never know when they baptized him. We laughed and we cried. | 21:03 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | He told that preacher, "Didn't he see that snake over there?" He was tie-tongued and he was saying it in a way that nobody couldn't understand what he was saying. But the preacher did hear him say, "A snake." And so he looked and saw one, because he staring at him. No, he didn't baptize him that day. | 21:47 |
| Kara Miles | Were you scared of the snakes and stuff when you had to go be baptized? | 22:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah, I was scared. I would look. I would look. I said, "Lord." Then I'm scared of water too. I can't swim. I likely got drowned one time when I was growing up. I ain't liked water from that day to this. I say, "I can't drink up all that water." I don't go in nothing, no more than a bathtub, sure don't. | 22:14 |
| Kara Miles | When you were baptized, did you all have to wear a special kind of dress, a special color dress? | 22:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, not color, but we could wear a dress. We put on white when we come out. We had white dresses. My parents had to put on a white dress, white shoes and stuff when you come out, but we could—a colored dress or any sort of dress we got baptized in. Then we had a towel wrapped round our heads, a white towel around our heads. That's the way they baptized, sure did. Got baptized. I came into that creek right there. I knew it was there. But we got a pool now in the church. | 22:50 |
| Kara Miles | Were baptizings big events? Did lots of people come to them? | 23:11 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Ooh, yeah. It was some people. But I say, I wish I could've took some pictures along then, but see, we didn't have no cameras and stuff, like we invented now where I could took some pictures. I wish I could've took some pictures to show what went on back in them days. That would've been nice, wouldn't it? | 23:30 |
| Kara Miles | Yes. Sure would. | 23:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Didn't know what a camera was. That would've been a sight seeing that, see them baptize them in the creek. | 23:51 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. | 23:58 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Everybody baptized them in the creek because they didn't know—I don't know who been to the pool, put the pool in the church and stop going in the creek. But that creek water was better because see, you didn't have to fill them things up. See, that water would be running all the time. It was clean because the water be running. | 23:59 |
| Kara Miles | Was there a certain time of year that people got baptized? | 24:19 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Uh-huh. In September. | 24:21 |
| Kara Miles | September. | 24:23 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | But now they baptize you anytime now. | 24:23 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah, I know. | 24:25 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Sure did. We didn't never baptize before September. First Sunday, the whole month of September, that's when they would baptize people. Sometime the water would be so cold, girl, you'd be shaking going in the water. But they'll baptize you. They said, "If you got God, you don't feel that cold," and all that kind of stuff. Feeling you full of cold, I reckon that's why you rattle in your bones. I reckon that's what get us all to rally and pick cotton out there. We had frost and stuff on your arms and things. That's why them old people can't walk. They done caught them cold out there in the fields and stuff when they were young. The people don't know talking about, I think the name is something else they get, arthritis, talking about arthritis. Ain't nothing but cold. | 24:28 |
| Kara Miles | I wanted to ask you about electricity. Do you remember when your family first got electricity? | 25:20 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, I don't know when that come, I really don't. But I knew when we had it. | 25:40 |
| Kara Miles | Huh? | 25:48 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | When we was on the farm, we didn't have none because it didn't have no wires and stuff up for it. Only time that we got electricity was when we come to town. Because see, that wasn't in the country then, no electricity stuff. Even the White people and everything, everybody had lamps. | 25:48 |
| Kara Miles | So were you still living at home when your family got electricity, or had you moved out? | 26:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Nah. I think I was at home because we had to move in town then close to electric stuff. They had electricity before I left home. | 26:13 |
| Kara Miles | How did that change things? What was that like, getting electricity? | 26:25 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh boy. You see, that's what opened your eyes up. That's what made our eyes so bad, them bright lights. Now most everybody you see wear glasses. Along then when I was a child, I could see better than I could with glasses because we didn't have no light to blind us, to take the sight out of our eyes. Because that's what the eye specialist tell you, said, "That's what ruin people's eye, the lights, because it's too bright." That lady right over there now, I think she's about 80. I reckon 80 or 90. She don't even wear no glasses right today because she don't ever put no lights on. | 26:28 |
| Kara Miles | Yeah. Did electricity make life easier? Did it make things— | 27:07 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah. It made things easy because see, you could have a refrigerator then where you could freeze your water and keep your food and stuff. Because see, now if it weren't for no lights now, how we would keep our food cold? We wouldn't have nowhere to keep it at. Because see, they don't come with the weather and stuff now. We be pitiful. We'd be like them people over there in, what do you call them folks over there where they fighting at? Somalia or whatever. We'd be like them. | 27:12 |
| Kara Miles | You were 21 when you got married? | 27:57 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Mm-hmm. | 27:59 |
| Kara Miles | Did you all have a wedding? How did— | 28:00 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No. Just went up to the justice of peace. When I first got married, my husband left and I didn't see him till the next day. | 28:01 |
| Kara Miles | What? | 28:01 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I didn't see that man before the next day when I saw him. | 28:09 |
| Kara Miles | Where'd he go? | 28:10 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Went back home or somewhere. I don't know where he went to. | 28:11 |
| Kara Miles | You get mad at him? | 28:37 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | No, I didn't have sense. I was too glad to see him when he come back the next day. See Lord, we were young then and didn't have no sense. We didn't have no sense then. Talking about that man, that was why I was too glad. I don't know whether he got scared or what. I reckon he didn't want to accept he had a wife already. Because see, when you get married, you got to take care of the man. The preacher asked, "Will you take care till death do you part," and all this kind of stuff. And he told him, "Yeah." And that man went away. I didn't see him before the next day. I didn't even let it worry me. | 28:37 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Then after he come back the next day, we went on, got to find us a house and got us some furniture and stuff. He went on to work. I don't think I worked. I think I was married about three or four years before I worked. I just done housekeeping, cooked and had food and stuff for him when he got from work. Most I did was housework. After I got married, I didn't do too much work then. Had to take care of my children because I was having children about every other year, so I just had to stay there and take care of the children while he worked. | 28:53 |
| Kara Miles | Had anyone like your mother or your sisters or anyone ever told you how to be a good wife? | 29:34 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Yeah. They told— | 29:40 |
| Kara Miles | What did they say? | 29:40 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | They told me, they said, "You have to be good now to your husband and stuff and know how to take care of your children." But my momma was living then, so anything I didn't know about the child, when it was born, I'd go and ask my momma for the baby and all, because my oldest daughter like to die when she was two years old. She had something like colitis. Her bowel was running off and I couldn't get it to stop. She went down to another old man somewhere. He made up some remedy or something or other and give me to give the child. That helped. | 29:46 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Old people, instead of going to the doctor, because you know how old I was when I ever went to the doctor? I ain't never been real sick in my life. I was about 60 years old when I first went to the doctor. 60 years old when I first went to a doctor. That doctor for nought. I don't go to them much now. Now I'm starting to make my blood pressure go up. | 30:13 |
| Kara Miles | What would people do when they got sick instead of going to the doctor? | 30:45 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | See, them old people know remedies and stuff that could help you because there weren't no doctors then. Then the doctors along then would come to your house to see you because there weren't no hospitals. They would come to your house. If you're real sick, they'll sit there all night long and bring medicine and stuff with them like that. The old people no remedies, but that's how I know about them trees, the sweet gum tree, how to make tea and stuff like that from my parents. | 30:47 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Because they got this stuff out of the woods, but see, it wasn't no chemical. You can't get nothing like that now because see, too much chemical in the stuff. But along then, that stuff would help you. It did because I tried it with some of my children. When they had the diarrhea, I used to get me some leaves out of the tree and boil them and give them a teaspoon full. That would check them up. But yeah, I wouldn't dare to go out there and get none of them now and give it to nobody. Now, there's remedies now where you could do, it won't help no how. | 31:20 |
| Kara Miles | Why is that? | 31:49 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | On account of the chemicals and stuff now, so you can't make nothing up to help you. You got to go to the doc. That just making the doctor rich. You ain't got no other choice. Can't do nothing, because I have tried it. And I said, "Didn't nothing help me." My momma used to tell me, "Give them a little paregoric." Now you can't buy no paregoric because the people got the drugs, making the dope and stuff out of them. You can't buy no paregoric to take the thing and dip it in there and rub the baby gum and it kill the fever. You can't find a bit on that shelf nowhere. Ain't going to get it out of the drugs until the doctor tell you to get it. You got to have a good record to get it then that you do it for good use. Now, name something else to give the baby now to rub the gum. That used to be the best thing you could use for a child when they teething. Sure did, yeah. A whole lot of stuff done changed. | 31:50 |
| Kara Miles | You were telling me what was expected of a good wife. | 32:57 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Oh, yeah. The wife be good. Some wife be mean to the husband and all that kind of stuff, but I was good to my husband. And he was good to me because he loved the children and he'd provide for them and all. We lived good till he passed. Then when he died, then I had all these children to take care of. And I said, "Now, how in the world I'm going to take care of these children now I ain't got nobody to help?" But you know, the Lord made it somehow and I bought this house. When I bought this house, I didn't pay but $40 a month. Paid for this house for $40 a month, girl. You can't get a room for $40. Ain't nothing there but the Lord work. | 33:03 |
| Kara Miles | Sure were. | 33:37 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | And I been paid through. Been through paying for year before I even finished work. | 33:37 |
| Kara Miles | Who took care of your children while you had to go to work, right? | 33:49 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Well, I had older children. | 33:51 |
| Kara Miles | Okay. | 33:51 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | I had older girls, big enough to take care of the little ones. Yeah, I had older ones was at home, so they were big enough to take care of the little ones. So I didn't have to worry about them. They would wash and cook. They were big enough to wash and cook and do all that kind of stuff. All I did is survive for them, sure did. I made it somehow now. Then my boys and things, they was big enough to go out and make them money. They work over there at the golf course, caddying and all that. So they made money to have for school and for different stuff for them. After they got up, I taught them how to survive, try to help themselves out. Then all of them got good jobs. | 33:55 |
| Kara Miles | Good. | 34:36 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Doing for their own self, doing well. | 34:36 |
| Kara Miles | Good. Well, I'm about out of questions. Now, is there anything else about the old times that—(laughs) | 34:41 |
| Lillian Clark Mallory | Nah. I reckon that's about all. I'm tired of talking now. (laughs) I enjoyed you. | 34:48 |
| Kara Miles | Good. | 34:49 |
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