Katherine Marrow interview recording, 1993 June 22
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| Chris Stewart | Okay, could I ask you just to state your name and your address so that I can see how your voice is going to show up here on the tape? | 0:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My name is Katherine L. Marrow. My address is Route One Box 97, Halifax. | 0:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Picking you up just fine. | 0:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh, Lord. | 0:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Just fine. Okay, I'd like to start, Ms. Marrow, by asking you, um, if you've always lived here in Halifax County? | 0:40 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I always lived in Halifax County, but not Tillery. | 0:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Not Tillery? | 0:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. | 0:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Where did you live before you came? | 0:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My native home is Weldon. | 0:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Weldon? | 0:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And we moved from Weldon, my mother moved from Weldon to Scotland Neck when I was about 16 years old. And when I was 42 years old, I moved to Tillery. | 1:03 |
| Chris Stewart | When you were 42? So it wasn't until you were an adult that you moved to Tillery? | 1:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My husband moved to Tillery. | 1:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you live in Weldon in the city? Or did you live on a farm? | 1:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, we was in the town. | 1:33 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 1:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I was a child when we lived there. | 1:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you say you were 16? | 1:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, about 16. I wasn't grown, yeah. | 1:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember anything about Weldon? | 1:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I remember working for some people. | 1:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Who did you work for? | 1:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Some of them, Michaels. | 1:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Michaels? | 2:00 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, the man that run the [indistinct 00:02:01] store. | 2:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Ran what kind of store? | 2:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | [indistinct 00:02:10]. | 2:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. What kind of work did you do? | 2:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Housekeeping. | 2:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your mom do housekeeping as well? | 2:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 2:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you have sisters that also helped? | 2:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I had sisters worked different places, hotels and hospitals and also did, but after I moved to Tillery I worked on a farm. That was all to do. | 2:26 |
| Chris Stewart | In Tillery? | 2:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 2:38 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. Do you remember the neighborhood that you grew up in in Weldon? | 2:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I remember part of it. | 2:48 |
| Chris Stewart | What part do you remember? | 2:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I remember when you worked for them, for anybody. Well, in fact, mama just to work, and I was small. I'd, after school, go where she worked, wait til she cooked the people supper or something like that. Or if it was a holiday, I'd go with her there and she'd tell me to sweep the hotel sometimes. But if you didn't work for White folks, them White folks, you couldn't even go in their front door. If you cooked for them, you had to go around the back door. If you cooked for them, you had to go around the back door, but then you could sweep their front porch off. And they had an outhouse, a toilet. You had to go in there. You wouldn't go in their bathroom, but still you could cook for them. I remember that. | 2:53 |
| Chris Stewart | So was this the Michaels family that you're talking about? Or is this a different family? | 3:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Them [indistinct 00:03:56] all them White folks that were high folk. My mama would work for them. I'd go down, but I remember, you better not go in the old toilet, bathroom. | 3:55 |
| Chris Stewart | How did they | 4:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | There just wasn't anybody in there, the had outer toilet, you better go in there if you were Black. | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | How did they treat you and your mom? | 4:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They treated you all right. And after they ate, you could eat. Now they'll let you sit at the table with them. | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Now and then? | 4:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Now they will. | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Now they will? | 4:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | They didn't then? | 4:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, no, no, sir. Didn't sit at the table with them folks. | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Where would you sit? | 4:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, just sit down and rest til the time they get through eating, everybody [indistinct 00:04:53] and go on home. Clean up the table and go on home. If you wanted to, you could eat everything, put you a little something in the pan and bring it home with you, carry it on home. Then it got to where they stopped you from bringing your food home. If you didn't eat it there, then you didn't bring it away from there. | 4:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember your house in Weldon? | 5:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, it was pretty good. | 5:18 |
| Chris Stewart | What did it look like? | 5:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That was an old one, two rooms and kitchen, and two fireplaces, and a wood stove, and a kitchen table, and that's all. | 5:25 |
| Chris Stewart | In the house that you grew up in? | 5:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm, now, a pump. | 5:39 |
| Chris Stewart | For water? | 5:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 5:48 |
| Chris Stewart | How many brothers and sisters did you have? | 5:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I had two brothers that lived. I ain't counting that one dead. And one got killed in the Korean War, and the other two brothers, I don't know where they is. Don't hear nothing from them. And I have two sisters. | 6:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Are they still living? | 6:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes. | 6:18 |
| Chris Stewart | And are they in this area, too? | 6:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, I'm the only one down here. One sister in Monmouth City, New Jersey, and a sister in Norfolk. | 6:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Was your father working? | 6:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My father was dead. | 6:38 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, he died? | 6:40 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Nobody worked but Mama. | 6:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your father die before you were born? | 6:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, he died after I was born. | 6:50 |
| Chris Stewart | How did he die? | 6:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | A car hit him, hit and run. He was walking, coming from work. | 6:52 |
| Chris Stewart | How old were you when this happened? | 7:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I was a child. Yeah, I was a child when it happened. | 7:03 |
| Chris Stewart | So your mom worked, and the rest of the family worked to support? | 7:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | All of them were small. I was the oldest one. | 7:20 |
| Chris Stewart | You were the oldest? | 7:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. They weren't old enough to work. | 7:24 |
| Chris Stewart | So you and your mom, basically, worked to support the family? | 7:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Practically weren't paying nothing. | 7:32 |
| Chris Stewart | What were they paying? | 7:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Good nothing, but I have worked, when I was 18 years old, right in Scotland Neck, washed, cooked, ironed, keep house, for five dollars a week. You know that wasn't nothing for compounding the day. But I got by with it somehow, five dollars. | 7:40 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your neighbors in Weldon? | 8:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No more than children, but they're all dead. | 8:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah, yeah. | 8:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's about it. And I never got around with no one's children when I was going to school. Mama didn't allow us to basically run all over town and that. | 8:23 |
| Chris Stewart | So your mom was pretty strict with you? With all the children? | 8:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. She didn't pin us down and knock soul [indistinct 00:08:47] people, but she just—when she kept something for us to do when, you know—told now, scrub the floor. I mean, she definitely allowed us to have our way like children do today. | 8:41 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like she wanted to make sure you didn't get into any trouble. | 9:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's right. That's right. | 9:08 |
| Chris Stewart | So when you were a young child, were there other young children around you to play with? | 9:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. They used to come in to play with us on home, and sometimes I'd go over there in their yard and play a little while, like the next door or the next to the next house. But I never liked to go about playing too much. I'd rather get on—steal Mama's needle and go myself making a dolls, cut paper dolls out. I always played to myself. I ain't never just frolic and play like the rest of my sisters and brothers. | 9:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. So you liked to make little paper dolls. | 10:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, cut them out of catalogs, you know? | 10:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 10:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Lord, I had more papers throwed everywhere, (both laugh) cutting up paper dolls. Yeah, that's what I'd do. | 10:19 |
| Chris Stewart | So how come you moved to Scotland Neck from Weldon? | 10:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I was staying with my mama and she moved. When she moved, she was working for Mr. Clive Bassey at the— | 10:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Clive Bassey? | 10:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm, at the hotel. And he— | 10:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Which hotel is that now? | 10:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The hotel was in Weldon. | 10:38 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember the name of it? | 10:41 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Bassey Hotel is all I know. | 10:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, it wasn't in, okay. | 10:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And they bought the hotel in Scotland Neck. And when they bought that hotel in Scotland Neck, they wanted Mama to deal with it, so Mama left and moved on to Scotland Neck, and kept continuing working for them. | 10:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Did anybody else, any other relatives, live with you in your house when you were growing up? Like, a grandmother or aunt? | 11:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, no. I know my grandparents died before I was born. | 11:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? What about any aunts or uncles? Was there anybody around you? | 11:16 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mama's sisters stayed there a while, but I don't know where that old mean one went. She was so mean. | 11:22 |
| Chris Stewart | She was mean? | 11:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, God. Mama got sick and she come home. And I was sitting in the door on the door step. I said, "I'm hungry." And Mama was sick, though. Mama said, "Sue, when you going to cook? If you ain't going to cook, I'll get Dora to cook something." And what'd you say that for? Aunt Mary Bet mixed up some dough. And I was so hungry, I started to eat that old raw dough. Then Mama went to crying. | 11:27 |
| Chris Stewart | How long did she stay with you? | 12:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She stayed there a long time with us. I don't know. I don't know. | 12:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Was it when you were living in— | 12:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I was small. | 12:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah? So it was when you were living in Weldon, then? | 12:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I was a child then. | 12:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she stay with you because your mom was sick? | 12:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Course, that come and stayed while Mama was sick, but she left. | 12:32 |
| Chris Stewart | What was wrong with your mom? | 12:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Had the flu. That was during the time when people was dying so fast by, called it the flu hand, and, you know, them horse and buggy days when you carried them on the two horse in a hearse, them those times we had folks were dying so fast with it. | 12:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there any doctors available for her? | 13:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. | 13:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you ever remember a doctor coming? | 13:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I ain't never seen a doctor there. One might have come, but by me being small, I just remember how Aunt Mary treated me. And I remember was bad awful sick. And I had a little sister. She died when she was about two years old. And mama used to keep me sitting up on the foot of the bed or near the bed, because I was small. But I'd go out in the yard sometimes and stay a little while. And remember her saying to me—I remember that the undertaker come and got her, but I remember the doctor coming there, children now—White man coming there, but children didn't notice things like they do now. | 13:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 14:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And so I reckon they did come there to Mama. I know a White man come in and got that baby, got my sister, and carried her out, and he didn't bring her back. And I asked "Mama, where would Sadie be?" And she said she's gone. She was so sick she couldn't hardly talk. She said she's gone. And the lady used to come and help Mama out, being she was sick, and cook for us, one of Mama's friends. She said, "Your little sister gone to rest." And I didn't know what she meant til I'd be about 10 years old, and told they told me she died, said when you die you don't come back. You know, children didn't have the sense they got now to understand any about nothing. Now they know how babies come about more than how they go. They know. That's all I knew. | 14:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Was Sadie the next? Did she come right after you? | 15:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 15:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay, so you must have been really young when she— | 15:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, Sadie be—that was when the influenza was going around. I was about five or six years old, but I remember it. | 15:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow, you do? | 15:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. But I didn't have it, but Mama had a good case of it. And Sadie be having, but I didn't have it. | 15:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Your father was still alive at this time? | 15:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. | 16:01 |
| Chris Stewart | No? So was there a church in Weldon that your family went to? | 16:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. Mama would go to church. | 16:11 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the name of it? | 16:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | St. Peter. | 16:20 |
| Chris Stewart | St. Peter's? Was it a Baptist church? | 16:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 16:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Would the people in the church help your mom out too when she was—Is that where the woman came from who came to help her cook? | 16:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. I don't know whether Ms. Dora went to church or not. | 16:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Ms. Doris? | 16:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Ms. Dora. | 16:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Dora? | 16:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know of Dora was going to church. She might have went, but you don't know. I ain't seen them when mama went there. I didn't see her there. Everybody don't go to church, you know? | 16:40 |
| Chris Stewart | I know. I do know that. Did you go to church? | 17:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. | 17:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your mom make you go to church? | 17:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I went to Sunday school, church. No, she didn't have to make me go. | 17:06 |
| Chris Stewart | You wanted to go? | 17:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. I love to go today. | 17:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Why? | 17:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I said I love to go to church today. | 17:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you love to go to church when you were young, too? | 17:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I always loved to go to church. | 17:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Why did you love it? | 17:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I loved church. | 17:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me why you love church? | 17:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It's a place you can go and sing nice and wash up, makes you feel better, and you can come to the Lord better. It's just a place to be thankful to go, to me. | 17:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Did the church do things? Did St. Peter's Church do things for helping out people in the community? | 17:48 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. | 17:58 |
| Chris Stewart | You don't remember? | 17:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. I know about my church. I don't know about these other churches, what they do. | 18:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember the pastor of that church? | 18:09 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. | 18:12 |
| Chris Stewart | When did you start going to school? | 18:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When I was six years old. I went until the eighth grade. | 18:21 |
| Chris Stewart | You went to the eighth grade? | 18:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 18:25 |
| Chris Stewart | What was the name of the school that you went to? | 18:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | All I know, it was Weldon School. | 18:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Weldon School? I talked to a man in Enfield yesterday, and he's a principal now at one of the County schools, and he was able to just say, "There was a school there, there's a school there, a school there", as opposed to writing all these school names. | 18:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 18:49 |
| Chris Stewart | So you were in Weldon? | 18:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 18:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your teachers? | 18:56 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | One named Katherine Lassiter, and one when I was in the eighth grade. The one teaching me when I was in Weldon was named Ms. Barnes. | 19:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Ms. Barnes? | 19:13 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 19:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Were those your favorite teachers? | 19:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They weren't my favorites. I didn't like them. | 19:16 |
| Chris Stewart | You didn't like them? | 19:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. | 19:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you have a favorite teacher? | 19:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, ma'am. | 19:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you not like school? | 19:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I liked school, but they didn't like Black folks, Black children. | 19:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Were your teachers— | 19:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Light, cherry picked. | 19:32 |
| Chris Stewart | They were light-skinned. | 19:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 19:38 |
| Chris Stewart | And they didn't like black-skinned? | 19:40 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, they didn't liked black-skinned. | 19:41 |
| Chris Stewart | How did they treat you? | 19:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Treated me all right because I knew they didn't like me, but they way they was acting. | 19:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. Did you just try to stay away from them? | 19:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't give them not trouble. You can tell when a person don't like something. I just gave them my manners and that's all. | 19:55 |
| Chris Stewart | So where these light-skinned Black teachers? Or were they White? | 20:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They was Colored, but they was color struck. | 20:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Right, right. | 20:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You find a whole lot of them color struck Colored folk, and they don't know pitiful they is. | 20:15 |
| Chris Stewart | So you went to school through the eight grade there? | 20:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. I went to Jackson and went to school. | 20:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh. | 20:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Then the eighth grade, that's where I quick school there. | 20:32 |
| Chris Stewart | So, when you were in eighth grade, then you went to Jackson? | 20:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 20:47 |
| Chris Stewart | How was that different from the Weldon School? | 20:48 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That woman had hit me on the head, and I just told Mama I wasn't going back. | 20:51 |
| Chris Stewart | So that was Ms. Barnes? | 20:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, that was Katherine Lassiter. | 20:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Katherine Lassiter? | 21:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 21:03 |
| Chris Stewart | She hit you on your head? | 21:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, she hit me on the head. | 21:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Why did she do that? | 21:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Because she wanted to. Said I was chewing chewing gum. | 21:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that the way teachers disciplined students is that they smacked them? | 21:16 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Do them any kind of way if they want to. Know along then, they could beat you, whoop you, and now they ain't allowed to whoop. And if they do that, they'd make you stand up in the corner, on one leg, and all such as that, you know, for punishment. Now you ain't supposed to do that. I mean, that ain't doing nothing but breeding children but to hate school. Ain't it? You know, like they hit them in the hand, they don't allow you to never stand up. And they don't allow you to [indistinct 00:22:13], but what is? | 21:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you think that that's a good way to punish kids? | 22:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Punish them how? | 22:13 |
| Chris Stewart | By hitting them? | 22:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, sometimes they deserved a little spanking but not for everything. | 22:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 22:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And sometimes you can punish them another way. | 22:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 22:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Make them sit down, or do something. Take something they love to do, just cut them off from doing it. | 22:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 22:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Take it away from them for a while. | 22:45 |
| Chris Stewart | How long was your school year? | 22:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hm? | 22:56 |
| Chris Stewart | How long was the school year? | 22:56 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About as long as they're going now. | 22:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Was it as long as it is now? | 23:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 23:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you go the whole time? Did you go from September to May? | 23:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I went the whole time. | 23:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there times when you maybe wouldn't go to school because you needed to work? | 23:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, mm-hmm. | 23:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Not during time? | 23:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 23:21 |
| Chris Stewart | You just stayed in school? But then you said after school you would go and help your mother? | 23:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I would. | 23:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Were there students in the school that you went to who wouldn't go to school for part of the time? Maybe some of the students whose fathers and mothers were farmers? | 23:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, wasn't no farming when I was there, around there. I didn't know about it. | 23:41 |
| Chris Stewart | In Weldon? | 23:41 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't know about no farm work til I moved to Tillery. | 23:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 23:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Until Tillery. I know people had farms, but some people used to come up in Scotland Neck and get people in some cars and carry them out in the country to pick cotton, but I didn't never go. I always worked in service. | 24:04 |
| Chris Stewart | The Weldon School, what did it look like? | 24:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It was just a two-story building. It was pretty nice. It had upstairs, too, but they done done away with that school. | 24:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. So did part of the students go upstairs? | 24:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, because I had to go upstairs. The first day I went I done fell down the stairs and knocked my teeth out. | 24:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, no? | 24:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | (laughs) I sure did. I done fell down the stairs there, knocked my teeth out. | 24:53 |
| Chris Stewart | How long were you without teeth? | 25:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They growed back after I shed some more, shed the other ones. | 25:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 25:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, mm-hmm. | 25:15 |
| Chris Stewart | That must have been scary, for a little girl? | 25:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It was scary. | 25:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Now it's funny? (laughs) | 25:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Scared me near about to death I went home, I waited til I got near the house. I was at home. I turned up and went to crying. Mama said, "What's the matter, Katherine?" I said, "I fell and broke my teeth out." And I was so fast trying to run down the stairs like the rest of them, knowing I wasn't used to no stairs. (laughs) I tell you, I didn't run no more. (both laugh) The next day I didn't run. | 25:31 |
| Chris Stewart | I bet you didn't. (laughs) | 26:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know why I think about running down there so fast. | 26:03 |
| Chris Stewart | What kinds of games did you play at school during—did you have have recess time? | 26:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Jump rope, played rain plays. | 26:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Played? | 26:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Rain plays, hold hands, play rain plays, high as the sky? You know, you hold your hand up like that? | 26:25 |
| Chris Stewart | I don't know that game. How does that go? | 26:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They just go under, and then you just shed them up like that, and say, "Would you like Jello or cake?" You said, "Jello or cake?" If you named Jello and the other one named cake, you'd get behind them, then. Then when you get them, a line about as long as from here to that [indistinct 00:27:04], then we'd pull, make a mark and pull, and then if the one pulled over, they win. It was real fun. | 26:40 |
| Chris Stewart | I bet. Did girls and boys play together? | 27:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 27:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Was there a time when girls and boys stopped playing together like that? | 27:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, they always played together while I was going to school. | 27:25 |
| Chris Stewart | While you were in school? | 27:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. And we would shoot marbles, played bob jacks. And the boys didn't play bob jacks. | 27:36 |
| Chris Stewart | What? Play? | 27:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Bob jacks. | 27:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, jacks. | 27:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | With a ball and them. | 27:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 27:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Bob jacks, throw them up and then catch them on the back of your hand. Such as that, we used to play. | 27:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Did the school that you go to have any extracurricular activities? Did people play basketball or anything? | 28:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, no, no. There wasn't no such as that then. No, there was not such as that then, basketball and football and all. | 28:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Nothing like that? | 28:16 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm. | 28:16 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like you sort of made your own fun. | 28:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | We just played, but the children don't play now like that. | 28:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-mm. They got to have a TV. | 28:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh, yeah | 28:39 |
| Chris Stewart | And a video game. | 28:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm, and they don't need it. | 28:45 |
| Chris Stewart | No, no, no. | 28:48 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They don't need it. They're sending a whole lot of them to jail, sending a lot of them to jail. | 28:48 |
| Chris Stewart | So you stopped going to school then after the eighth grade, and then you started working full time? | 28:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Then I started working. | 29:17 |
| Chris Stewart | And was that for the Michaels family when you started working full time? | 29:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Let me see who that worked—I believe I went to work for Ms. Pernell. | 29:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Pernell? | 29:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. I went to cooking for her. | 29:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Did she have a big family? | 29:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She had four in her family. They were pretty nice to work for. | 29:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah? What was the difference between working for a nice family and working for a not nice family. | 29:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You just don't care whether you be there or not. | 29:44 |
| Chris Stewart | How would a nice family treat you as opposed to a bad family? | 29:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, they just got more care for you. You can tell when a person got care for you, and you can tell when they don't care so much about you. You know more, working full about you. | 29:56 |
| Chris Stewart | How can you tell? Can you tell? | 30:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I'm just there when a person don't like me, nothing but my work. You're paid to do 90 things, and they'll know you ain't but one person, and they ain't going to paying you nothing extra. You know you can't do all that work in one day. | 30:21 |
| Chris Stewart | But you said Mrs. Pernell was pretty nice? | 30:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. | 30:32 |
| Chris Stewart | So how was it better than—What would she do? How would she talk to you? | 30:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She'd just tell me, say, what to cook. And ask me "how about this," and I'd tell her. And I'd say I'm not working, couldn't come—I'd say once in a while, usually. She'd tell me. And sometimes her way would be just like mine. Well, that was fine. But she wouldn't tell you to do nothing that you know you couldn't do in the run of the day. If you were told to cook and clean up and go on home, that's what you done, but don't add work on top of what you don't supposed to do then. Mm-mm, that don't work. And they ain't going to pay you no more. | 30:47 |
| Chris Stewart | So you worked for the Pernells in Weldon, then? | 31:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, in Jackson. | 31:42 |
| Chris Stewart | In Jackson? So you lived in Weldon and traveled to Jackson? Or did you go— | 31:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, we lived down there a while, about five years, I think. | 31:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, I see. Who did you work for? Did you work for the Pernells the whole time you were in Jackson? | 31:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm, until I got ready to stop. I got sick and I didn't ever got back. | 32:00 |
| Chris Stewart | You got sick? | 32:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 32:11 |
| Chris Stewart | What was wrong? | 32:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I got to where I'd keep the asthma a lot. | 32:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Asthma, did you say? | 32:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Asthma. And I just didn't go back. | 32:20 |
| Chris Stewart | And was it that time then that you moved to Scotland Neck? | 32:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It was, yeah, a few years after then we moved to Scotland Neck. | 32:35 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you do in between that time? | 32:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Nothing. | 32:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you stay at home? | 32:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, and kept house. | 32:48 |
| Chris Stewart | While your mom worked? | 32:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 32:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Did any of your other sisters then work during that time? | 32:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They weren't old enough to work. | 32:56 |
| Chris Stewart | No? So are you considerably older than your sisters? | 33:00 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I was the oldest one. I'm 80 years old. | 33:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, my. Congratulations. | 33:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I ain't no baby. | 33:11 |
| Chris Stewart | No, I didn't think you were a baby. How much younger are your sisters? | 33:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I got one 70. | 33:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, so you are— | 33:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And that's old. And the baby girl is 60-something, 61 I think. Yeah, I'm the oldest one of all of them. | 33:23 |
| Chris Stewart | So you stayed at home for a couple of years, then, while your mom worked? | 33:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, now and then I'd do a little day work, something like that. | 33:44 |
| Chris Stewart | When you were feeling up to it? | 33:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. You could make right good doing day work. | 33:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me the difference between day work and— | 33:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Day work, you worked by the hour. | 34:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Was day work available for— | 34:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, mm—mm. It was hard to find, but now and then somebody would come what didn't have nobody every day. Like, on spring clean-up, get you some day work, and get more out of that. | 34:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Would that be in addition to, say, the regular people that they would have coming into their house, but they'd hire people at day wages just to do some of the bigger, heavier cleaning? | 34:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, like because they had to do so much. | 34:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. Do you remember what your day work wages were an hour when you were doing it? | 34:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | 75 cents an hour. | 34:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. So you could make considerably more money? | 34:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 35:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Doing that, yeah? | 35:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Sure could, so that was all that I'd do. | 35:06 |
| Chris Stewart | So then you moved to Scotland Neck? | 35:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 35:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Your whole family moved to Scotland Neck? | 35:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, because we was the staying with mama, you know? | 35:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah, yeah. | 35:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | So we just went on with her. | 35:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Where did you live in Scotland Neck? | 35:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | On Reynolds Street. | 35:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Reynold's Street? | 35:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 35:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember your house there? | 35:33 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 35:35 |
| Chris Stewart | What did it look like? Is it still there? | 35:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, it got burnt up. | 35:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, sorry. | 35:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About, I don't know, 10 years ago. | 35:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 35:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Burned up, burned a man up in there. | 35:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, my. | 35:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 35:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember what it looked like? | 35:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It was just a [indistinct 00:36:00] house with four rooms. | 35:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Did it have a porch? | 36:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 36:05 |
| Chris Stewart | A front porch? | 36:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 36:07 |
| Chris Stewart | And did all your brothers and sisters and your mom live in that house? | 36:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's right. | 36:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Was there anybody else who lived in that house at any other time? | 36:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know who lived in there before we moved there. | 36:18 |
| Chris Stewart | I mean, when you were living there? | 36:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What, with us? | 36:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 36:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, ma'am. We never had nobody live with us. | 36:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember any of your neighbors from Scotland Neck? | 36:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Remember some of my neighbors? | 36:38 |
| Chris Stewart | From Scotland Neck when you were living there? | 36:40 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 36:42 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you remember about them? | 36:43 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't remember nothing but I remember seeing them. They treated me all right. | 36:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Did they? | 36:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. My church is in Scotland Neck, the church I'm a member of. | 36:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you join that church that you're a member of now? Did you join it when you moved to [indistinct 00:37:10]? | 37:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I joined that church 51 years ago. | 37:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. So you're an elder? An elderess? | 37:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, at Shiloh Baptist Church on the corner of 13th Street. Like, the Episcopal church on this corner, Main Street, the other corner, that's where Shiloh is. | 37:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you tell me when you felt like you had become an adult? At what point did you feel like you became an adult? Like people were treating you like an adult? | 37:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't really know. What do you mean, when I got a senior citizen? | 37:48 |
| Chris Stewart | When what? | 38:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When I got to be a senior citizen? | 38:07 |
| Chris Stewart | No, I mean when you were growing up? When you were growing up, at what point did you feel like you had become an adult woman? | 38:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, after I had my first child. (laughs) I thought that I was grown then. | 38:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Pretty much forced into then, aren't you? (laughs) When was that? | 38:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I was 19 years old. | 38:31 |
| Chris Stewart | You were 19? So it was a couple of years after you got to Scotland Neck? | 38:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Yes, ma'am. I felt like I was a woman. | 38:38 |
| Chris Stewart | Was it a girl or a boy? | 38:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Girl. | 38:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she born at home? | 38:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. All my children were born at home. | 38:50 |
| Chris Stewart | Who helped you? | 38:54 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | A lady named Minnie Whitaker. | 38:56 |
| Chris Stewart | Minnie? | 38:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Whitaker. | 38:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Whitaker? Did she help a lot of women? | 39:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. | 39:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she a midwife? | 39:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm, yeah. | 39:06 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know what area she worked in? Was it just the Scotland Neck? | 39:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She worked in Scotland Neck and Hobgood, anywhere they come and got her. Tillery. | 39:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 39:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Tillery, anywhere. | 39:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Was she the only woman? Or were there other midwives? | 39:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, there were two or three around there, but I just got her. My husband just got her. | 39:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you choose her, or was she just the closest person? | 39:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My husband choosed her. | 39:53 |
| Chris Stewart | How come he chose her? | 39:54 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Maybe he just liked her. I don't know. I don't care who it got so long as they help me. | 39:56 |
| Chris Stewart | How did you meet your husband? | 40:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't even know. The devil sent him to me. | 40:07 |
| Chris Stewart | The devil sent him to you? (Marrow laughs) He did? Why do you say that? | 40:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. I don't know. | 40:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Were you married for a long time? | 40:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Long enough. | 40:29 |
| Chris Stewart | How long is long enough? | 40:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About 30 years, thereabout. Finally, he died. He died in 1956. | 40:33 |
| Chris Stewart | In 1956? | 40:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 40:47 |
| Chris Stewart | How many children did you have? | 40:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Seven. | 40:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you meet him in Scotland Neck? | 40:56 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 40:58 |
| Chris Stewart | How come you say the devil brought him to you? | 41:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The devil did. I didn't want get married nohow. | 41:06 |
| Chris Stewart | You didn't want to? | 41:09 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I did, I did after I got up, I decided to get married that afternoon. (laughs) | 41:15 |
| Chris Stewart | How come you didn't think that you wanted to get married? | 41:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I did, til I got ready, he got ready to get married. I didn't want to get no married. | 41:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah? | 41:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. | 41:21 |
| Chris Stewart | You wanted to wait? | 41:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I sure did. | 41:21 |
| Chris Stewart | How come you wanted to wait? | 41:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. | 41:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you want to do some things first? | 41:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, I didn't want nothing to do, didn't want to get married.I changed my mind just that quick. Well, he done got that nest together so, and then went on and got married. | 41:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Where'd you get married? | 42:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | At home. | 42:05 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? Where did you live once you got married? | 42:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | On Reynolds Street. | 42:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you live with your mom? Or did you close to your mom? | 42:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No ma'am. Not in that house. No, I never lived with mama after I got married. | 42:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you live close to her? | 42:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 42:19 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of work did your husband do? | 42:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He worked at Basket Mill in Murfreesboro. | 42:23 |
| Chris Stewart | In Murfreesboro? | 42:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 42:28 |
| Chris Stewart | In what Mill? | 42:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Basket Mill. | 42:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Did he do that all of his life? | 42:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I guess he did. He told me that's what he was doing all day, Basket Mill. | 42:36 |
| Chris Stewart | You said you had your first child when you were 19 years old— | 42:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 43:01 |
| Chris Stewart | And that you got shocked into womanhood. Can you tell me a little bit about how your life changed when you became a mother? | 43:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. I knew it was the time to go to work then. | 43:17 |
| Chris Stewart | It was time to go to work then? | 43:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It felt like I was grown then, had to wash diapers and doing some all the time when I didn't have to do that. | 43:21 |
| Chris Stewart | So not only did you have to work taking care of the baby and the husband— | 43:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 43:48 |
| Chris Stewart | But were you doing other kinds of work as well? | 43:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I finally went to work [indistinct 00:43:56]. | 43:52 |
| Chris Stewart | You still were working in service? | 43:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | After, I finally went. | 43:57 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 43:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 43:59 |
| Chris Stewart | How long did you stay out of service? | 44:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. | 44:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you just have one child, or did you have a couple of children before you went back? | 44:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, I had a couple before I went back. | 44:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Why did you go back? | 44:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My husband wasn't making enough money for us getting [indistinct 00:44:21]. | 44:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah? | 44:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | So it took two to go. | 44:23 |
| Chris Stewart | How did he feel about your going to work? | 44:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. I really don't care. | 44:28 |
| Chris Stewart | You didn't care? | 44:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. I didn't ask. I know he—his money was scarce and I decided I'd go to work instead of sitting around worrying myself to death about money. | 44:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. So you figured you'd just go to work and do what you could to support your family? | 44:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's right. | 44:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah, well, so how long, then, did you stay in Scotland Neck? | 44:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I stayed in Scotland Neck, I reckon, about 39 years at least. | 45:10 |
| Chris Stewart | You stayed in Scotland Neck for about 39 years? | 45:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 45:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, you said you moved when you were 42, so had you had all your children by then? | 45:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. My baby was three years old when I moved finally. | 45:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. Who made the decisions in your house between you and your husband? Who made decisions about money? About disciplining your kids? About where you would live? | 45:43 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Who made decisions? | 46:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 46:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What is that? | 46:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Hm? | 46:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Like what? | 46:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Like, both you and your husband worked. Who decided what money was going to be spent on what? What money was going to go to food? What was money was going to go to clothes? Who decided those kinds of things? | 46:13 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | There wasn't no deciding. What little money we had, we just bought food as best we could, and piece of garment the best we could. There wasn't that much money. | 46:24 |
| Chris Stewart | He didn't? | 0:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | All the time, no. | 0:04 |
| Chris Stewart | He bought what he wanted. | 0:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I reckon he bought what he thought was right. I don't know. I didn't know nothing about it, so I just went to work and I bought what I want. | 0:12 |
| Chris Stewart | What about decisions about your kids, about disciplining your kids? Who disciplined your kids, you or your husband? | 0:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What is that? | 0:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Who told them when they were doing things wrong and punished them for it? | 0:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He worked all the time. Me. Because he worked all the time and he wasn't home but weekend. | 0:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 0:43 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Didn't look like he'd stand down on them no how during the beginning. Because all of the time, they just leave and go to the daughter's house or something. I don't know. | 0:45 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like you took care of the kids. | 1:00 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I did. | 1:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Who decided to move out to Tillery? | 1:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Me, like an old fool. (laughs) | 1:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Why do you say that? | 1:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Because I didn't have no business coming here. | 1:17 |
| Chris Stewart | How come? | 1:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It ain't no convenience here for nothing. Tillery just come down. It used to be stores here. Nothing here now. One store and that's everything, and that's so high, it hurts your feeling to go in there. That's bad, one store in the whole town. | 1:20 |
| Chris Stewart | When you first moved? | 1:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When I first moved, Tillery was in the bloom. Had a hardware store here, a big store, a grocery store. It had two grocery stores, three grocery stores. But you see, them people died and then Tillery died with them. If you get anything, you got to go to Scotland Neck, and people charge you so much. Charge me seven dollar down in Scotland Neck. Get groceries and stuff, anything like that. | 1:51 |
| Chris Stewart | What did you do when you moved? What kind of work did you do when you first moved to Tillery? | 2:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Worked on a farm. | 2:44 |
| Chris Stewart | What farm did you work on? | 2:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Picked cotton for my brother-in-law and different ones. | 2:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your brother-in-law own land? | 2:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. Mm-hmm. | 2:57 |
| Chris Stewart | So you worked for him? | 3:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Picked cotton for him, shucked peas. Anybody would come along and ask me to help them pick cotton or shuck peas, I just picked up and gone. | 3:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your husband do that as well or was he still working at the basket? | 3:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He didn't stay at that basket mill. No. | 3:23 |
| Chris Stewart | What about your kids? Were your kids helping? | 3:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'd take them sometime out there. That's a holiday, I wouldn't leave them home. I'd tell them they had to go with me. | 3:33 |
| Chris Stewart | What school did your kids go to? | 3:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, some went to Tillery Chapel when it was running. And some went to Brawley. | 3:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Brawley? | 3:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | In Scotland Neck. | 3:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Right, right. | 3:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's where they graduated. Three graduated. | 4:02 |
| Chris Stewart | From high school? | 4:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes. | 4:02 |
| Chris Stewart | You must be proud of that. | 4:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, I am. The rest of them didn't graduate, went to 11th grade and stuff. | 4:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Are your children still living around here? | 4:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. | 4:22 |
| Chris Stewart | They moved away? | 4:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. Oh, I got one live in Scotland Neck, my girl. The rest of them, one lives in Olive, Virginia and one in Jacksonville, one in Swansboro, and one in Virginia Beach, and one in Washington. | 4:24 |
| Chris Stewart | You got your kids spread out. | 4:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, spread every which way. | 5:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Where in Tillery did you live when you came to Tillery? | 5:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Up the road there. See where that old, big tree, look like it's rotting? | 5:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Yep. | 5:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Up there. There was a house there, but they burned it down. Paper mill bought that, Georgia-Pacific, and they burned the house up. | 5:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Who burnt the house? | 5:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Georgia-Pacific. | 5:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh. So that they could log? | 5:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know what the fools burnt that for, burned it up because they wanted to, I reckon. I don't know. | 5:41 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that the house you lived in with all your kids? | 5:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 5:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you live there with your brother-in-law? | 5:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My brother-in-law lived over there. | 5:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, he lived on the other side of the street? | 5:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. Right there. Wasn't over the street. | 5:59 |
| Chris Stewart | What happened to his house? | 6:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It's there now. | 6:07 |
| Chris Stewart | It is back behind there? | 6:09 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. But he died. | 6:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Did he pay you wages? | 6:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Sure, he paid me. Yes, ma'am. | 6:23 |
| Chris Stewart | Did he pay you hourly wages or daily wages? | 6:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, when you pick cotton, they pay you for what you pick. | 6:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Pound? | 6:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | By the pound. | 6:30 |
| Chris Stewart | How much was he paying you per pound? | 6:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, sometimes he paid $2.50. I have picked cotton for 50 cent a 100. | 6:34 |
| Chris Stewart | 50 cent, 100 pounds? | 6:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | $2/100, something like that. But they went up. I guess they went up, and you could make good picking cotton. | 6:46 |
| Chris Stewart | When was that? When could you make good money picking cotton? | 7:09 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When it went up. Along in the middle of the fall, they go up. And shucking peas, they give 20 cent a stack. Some people would pay 30 if the peas were rank. | 7:12 |
| Chris Stewart | So towards the fall for the cotton when they were getting worried about whether or not the crop would get picked, they'd up the price? | 7:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 7:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you try to hold out at all for those higher wages? | 7:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. I just picked. I just worked right on through. Yeah. | 7:47 |
| Chris Stewart | What about when you didn't have to work on the crops, what kind of work did you do? | 7:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When there wasn't no crop, we had to stay home. | 7:59 |
| Chris Stewart | How did you support your family? | 8:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. I survived somehow, but there wasn't no work to do. See, I canned a lot of stuff and that's what helped me out. | 8:06 |
| Chris Stewart | So you had your own big garden as well? | 8:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. We had two gardens. I'd take a shovel and plowed it up. You'd think a plow plowed it. Now I can't even dig a hole hardly. | 8:28 |
| Chris Stewart | You can't now? | 8:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. My breath gets so short. | 8:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, sure. But you can remember. | 8:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. I had two pretty gardens. You'd think somebody plowed it with a plow. I'd can. Still, I'd have stuff we canned, some corn and tomatoes, butter beans. I'd put it in a row and put a piece of paper over there, put the jars on top of there. You could look at it, it looked just like a picture. | 8:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, I bet you it was beautiful. | 9:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It was. It was. | 9:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. That'd last you through the winter, all your canning that you did? | 9:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. I'd make jelly. I'd can pears and peaches, and I'd take the peel and make jelly out of them. You could turn that jelly up like that. That jelly wouldn't even fall out. | 9:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, wow. | 9:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'd make my own jelly. | 9:39 |
| Chris Stewart | Wow. | 9:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I sure did. | 9:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Sounds like you were pretty busy after the crops were picked anyway because you were busy doing all this canning too. | 9:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Sometime I'd get out of the field and peel pears and put them in sugar, come back the next evening and can them that night. | 9:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Did any of your children help you do that? | 10:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Uh-uh. They would help me peel some. I'd make them help me peel things though. When I got ready to jelly, I did that myself. I would raise me two hogs. I'd get somebody to kill them for me. That would help me. | 10:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you cure those? | 10:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 10:44 |
| Chris Stewart | What about milk and butter? Did you— | 10:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'd buy all the margarine and I'd buy me some powdered milk. Sometime I'd buy a gallon of milk for the children when I'd get there and go to town. | 10:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Was there anybody around that you could trade some of the stuff that you canned for, for some milk or some butter or something? | 11:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't even bother nobody. | 11:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. Where did you shop in town when you went into town? | 11:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh. Mr. Harris had a store then in Tillery. | 11:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Mr. Harris? | 11:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Harper Harris. | 11:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah? | 11:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'd go up there to Tillery when he had a store. He sold anything you'd want, and I had credit with him. I didn't have no trouble. | 11:35 |
| Chris Stewart | He would let you buy on credit when you ran out of money in the wintertime? | 11:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He sure would. Then one of my sons went to the Army, and he made a lot, $90.10. That helped me feed the children, helped me take care of them through the winter. | 11:56 |
| Chris Stewart | World War II, did you say? | 12:13 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. | 12:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Korean War? | 12:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. In '57. | 12:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, so it was later. Okay. Okay. Do you remember hearing anything about or experiencing yourself any incidences of violence because you're a Black woman? | 12:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What's that? | 12:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you ever hear of White people physically hurting Black people in this area? | 12:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. I hear somebody tell me Miss Martin shot Miss Hattie White's son. | 13:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. Mr. Grant was telling us about that. When did that happen? | 13:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I weren't here. | 13:29 |
| Chris Stewart | You weren't here. This was way before? | 13:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 13:34 |
| Chris Stewart | What about when you were here? | 13:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't know nobody to do nothing, nobody. If they do, I done forgot it. But they prejudiced, some of them. | 13:38 |
| Chris Stewart | Hmm? | 13:40 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Some of them is prejudiced here, prejudiced. It ain't no White people here. | 13:40 |
| Chris Stewart | There aren't any White people around here? | 14:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, not over two or three. Mr. Cook and Miss Louise. They covered their new town. I don't know. There ain't no White folk in Tillery. | 14:07 |
| Chris Stewart | How about in any of the surrounding communities, did you hear about, say, the police, the sheriff's department doing anything to any man in the area, arresting them for no reason? | 14:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They often do that. They say they do, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't get up out. I don't know these things, if they're true. You can hear anything, but I don't like to talk that I don't know. | 14:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Right, yeah. I understand. You didn't hear anything when you first came, when you first came to Tillery or even when you were living in Scotland Neck? | 15:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Uh-uh. No. | 15:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you ever think that people at any time during your life, that people treated you like a second-class citizen, like somebody who wasn't as good as they were? | 15:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I don't know. I say yes and then I say no. I have seen times a certain type of people didn't want to be bothered with me, I felt like. I just wouldn't lean on them. | 15:47 |
| Chris Stewart | What type of people? | 16:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | More prejudiced Colored folks and some prejudiced White people. You'd go in a store. Sometimes they're so prejudiced, they throw the money at you. | 16:20 |
| Chris Stewart | Can you think of any specific instance when that happened? | 16:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hmm? | 16:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Any specific thing that happened to you? | 16:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, I don't think I can. I remember Virginia Walston, she dead now, but she's a White woman. I and her were raised up together. My mama used to cook for her cousin. Mama used to give me some—They have food left and they didn't want it. They would tell Mama, send it home for us, take it for us. I stopped and Virginia asked me to give some of their food. I didn't know she lived in Scotland Neck. I was coming from off of my job, and I passed that house. She said, "Katherine, ain't that you?" I say, "Yeah." I said, "What are you doing there? You live there?" She say, "Yeah." I say, "Virginia, you say you married?" | 16:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She said, "Don't call me Virginia!" And she closed the door. She said, "Call me Mrs. Walston! Call me Mrs. Walston." I said, "Well, call me Mrs. Marrow." I say, "You got any pickles?" She loved pickles, used to love pickles. I say, "You got any pickle in your house?" She said, "If I had any, I wouldn't give you none, going to call me Virginia." I said, "Well, that's your name." I said, "Why I got to call you Mrs. Walston?" I said, (laughing) [indistinct 00:18:57] "I ain't starting you, calling you Mrs. Nothing." So I didn't bother her no more. | 17:51 |
| Chris Stewart | And you grew up together? | 18:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah! Mm-hmm. "Call me Ms. Walston." | 19:17 |
| Chris Stewart | You just told her what she could do with that, "Call me Ms. Walston." | 19:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 19:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Where do you think that came from? Where do you think that— | 19:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She thought she would throw it on me. I reckon, I don't know, but I didn't call her Ms. Walston. I told her I didn't have to call her nothing. | 19:45 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 19:48 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I said, "You won't have no more trouble with me." | 19:57 |
| Chris Stewart | So you stayed away from her after that? | 20:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I passed it, but I didn't look over at her house. | 20:02 |
| Chris Stewart | Was your mom still working for her? | 20:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mama didn't work for her. Mama— | 20:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Worked for her— | 20:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mama was working at the hotel, but I was working for Miss Pauline Hern on Church Street. I passed this house, I didn't know who lived in that old house. She come out on the porch and that's what she said. I said, "Well, you acting strange." | 20:13 |
| Chris Stewart | How old were you when that happened? Were you married? | 20:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. I was 25 or 30, about 25 years old, or older. I was old enough to know I didn't call her Ms. Walston. | 20:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 20:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She married Skip Walston. He worked in the bank. | 21:05 |
| Chris Stewart | What about when you went into the—Did you use the banks in town? | 21:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hmm? | 21:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you use a bank at all? | 21:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'd go there and cash a little check. | 21:21 |
| Chris Stewart | How'd people treat you there? | 21:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | All right. Well, one time I went there to cash a $10 check and they give me $3 back. | 21:29 |
| Chris Stewart | When was that? | 21:44 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About four or five years ago. I said, "This ain't my money." They say, "Well, you have to pay seven dollars to get a check cashed without an account here." I said, "Take this back and give me my check." They say, "Well, done branded it now." I got sick. The day after they voted for the president, I went downtown. I had been trading at Eller's in the supermarket all the time. They'd been cashing my check for me. | 21:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I tell you, the day I went in there, I bought $15 and change worth of groceries. That was all I needed right then. The old woman that worked there, she said, "We can't cash your check." I said, "Why?" She said, "A new rule, you got to buy $30 worth of groceries before we can cash your check." I said, "I don't need no $30 of groceries right now." She said, "We will cash it this way. You give us $5.60, and then we'll cash the check." I said, "Take your groceries back." | 22:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Was this in Scotland Neck? | 23:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. I said, "Take that grocery back." I said, "And thank you and goodbye." | 23:44 |
| Chris Stewart | When was this? | 23:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I told you, the night they voted for the president, the next day. | 23:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. This was very recently. | 24:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The last one day I went in there, I saw they had a man. I told them how she treated me. He said, "Well, she told you right. It costs us to cash checks, and we had to charge for to cash checks." | 24:11 |
| Chris Stewart | Sounds like this kind of stuff, I mean, obviously it's still going on. Was this kind of stuff going on when you were living— | 24:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I ain't never heard told of it before, but that's what they put to me. I went right on across there to Barry's and got the same amount of stuff and got my check cashed. That's how they treated me. I've been buying stuff there, God knows how long. | 24:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. Can you tell me, when did you start voting? | 25:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When I started over at the center. I don't like to vote. I don't know what I'm doing. It don't do no good. | 25:21 |
| Chris Stewart | You feel like it doesn't do no good? | 25:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, it don't to me. | 25:29 |
| Chris Stewart | When you started going to the Open Minded Citizens? | 25:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | A little before then. | 25:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Hmm? | 25:54 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About a year before then, I reckon. But I don't like to do it because I don't think it does anything. | 25:54 |
| Chris Stewart | Why? | 25:54 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It just ain't, to me. I can't give no head or tail to it. | 25:54 |
| Chris Stewart | You don't feel like you get any help from it? | 26:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Uh-uh. | 26:03 |
| Chris Stewart | Where would you vote if you voted? | 26:07 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You leave it to me, I wouldn't vote nowhere because I don't know what I'm doing. | 26:09 |
| Chris Stewart | You think that they make it too complicated? | 26:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | It don't make it no better, don't seem like to me. Do it seem like to you? It's a uprising. It's an argument. They can't agree on nothing, nothing but a mess. That's all that's been there since they've done been in there, a mess. You carry something up this way, they screw it around that way. Well, it was messed up before he went in there. (laughs) You can't undo a mess. | 26:26 |
| Chris Stewart | That's a pretty big mess, too. | 27:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I done told you! It's like trying to put out a fire with water when you know gasoline's burning, make the fire worse— | 27:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Trying to put out a fire with a squirt bottle. | 27:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I done told you. | 27:26 |
| Chris Stewart | What about locally, do you think that any local people, any of the local elections have helped? Is there anybody locally that you think has helped? | 27:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Who locally? | 27:40 |
| Chris Stewart | I don't know. I don't know anybody, but are there any city council people or county commissioners who you think have helped the farmers or Black people in this area? | 27:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, don't look like they're helping too much, the way the crime. They might be helping them, I don't know. But the reports don't seem like they're doing too much to me, but that's me saying that. | 27:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, it seems to me you have a pretty realistic outlook. | 28:20 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's what I'm talking about. | 28:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Then again, you're a wise woman. Did you ever have any heroes while you were growing up, people that you looked up that you thought were real important? | 28:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't think so. | 28:48 |
| Chris Stewart | No? Not necessarily local people, but even people that you heard about on the radio or places? | 28:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't pay no attention. | 29:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, ma'am, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to have on this tape that you think is important that needs to be put on this tape? | 29:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. I don't think so. I think I don't talked enough. | 29:27 |
| Chris Stewart | You're a talker. Well, I tell you what, I've got a couple things left to do. One is to fill out some forms, some forms about where you were born, what date you were born, and about your children and your sisters and brothers' names and things like that. I need to fill out that form. That means that I'm going to be asking you a few more questions for about 10 more minutes if that's okay. Is that okay? | 29:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 30:02 |
| Chris Stewart | I promise it won't take long. It's cooling down nice out here, isn't it? | 30:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, it is. | 30:10 |
| Chris Stewart | It's real comfortable now. | 30:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Where you staying? | 30:13 |
| Chris Stewart | We're staying at the Franklinton Center over at the old brick school in Enfield. Yep. They put us up in a house out there. | 30:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Y'all moved there? | 30:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. We moved there from school. | 30:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh, you go to school. | 30:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. During the school year, we go to school, but all during the summer, then we're traveling all throughout the state. When we're here, we're staying at that house. It's probably about 20 miles from here so that we can get to all the different places we want to go to, up to Roanoke Rapids and down to Rocky Mount. | 30:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh, Lord. | 31:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Over to Hollister and just going everywhere. Okay. I need your full name. | 31:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My name Katherine L. Marrow. | 31:09 |
| Chris Stewart | Katherine? | 31:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | L. Marrow. I was a Lassiter. | 31:18 |
| Chris Stewart | You were a Lassiter. | 31:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, but I just put L. | 31:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Hmm? | 31:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I just put L. | 31:29 |
| Chris Stewart | You said you worked for a Lassiter too. | 31:32 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I did, but I was a Lassiter before I married. | 31:36 |
| Chris Stewart | And your current address is box— | 31:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Route 1. | 31:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Route 1. | 31:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Box 97. | 31:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Box 97, right. | 31:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Halifax. | 31:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know what the zip code is? | 31:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. 27839. | 31:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. And your home telephone number? | 32:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | 826-5791. | 32:08 |
| Chris Stewart | How would you like your name to appear in anything that's written? How would you like your name to appear? | 32:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What do you mean? | 32:24 |
| Chris Stewart | If somebody were to use this tape to write about Halifax County and they were to write your name, would you want them to use Katherine L. Marrow? | 32:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | This would be all I ask. | 32:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Do you have a nickname? | 32:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. | 32:44 |
| Chris Stewart | When's your birthdate? | 32:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | May the 29th. | 32:54 |
| Chris Stewart | 1913? | 32:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | May the 29th. Yeah, I was born in 1913. | 32:55 |
| Chris Stewart | And you were born in Weldon? | 33:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. That house burnt down. | 33:15 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your mom have a midwife all the time too when she was giving birth? | 33:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's right. | 33:24 |
| Chris Stewart | Ooh, there's the newspaper. I'll get that for you. | 33:24 |
| Speaker 1 | How you doing, ma'am? I don't see nobody else sitting there. | 33:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You old bugger! | 33:24 |
| Speaker 1 | (Stewart laughs) You better not talk to me like that. (Marrow and Stewart laugh) How you talk to me like that? I thought I was going to see your buddy. (Stewart laughs) | 33:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You called me nobody, didn't you? | 33:24 |
| Speaker 1 | I didn't call you that. I just said I didn't see nobody. | 33:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Well, I saw a bugger. (laughs) | 33:24 |
| Speaker 1 | That's all right. | 33:24 |
| Chris Stewart | He's a spunky man. Okay. Are you widowed? | 34:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 34:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Your husband's first name? | 34:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My husband, he's dead though. He was named James E. Marrow. | 34:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know when he was born? | 34:27 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | September the 1st, but I don't know what year. | 34:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Do you know what year he died? | 34:37 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He died in 1956. | 34:40 |
| Chris Stewart | You've been on your own a long time, haven't you? | 34:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 34:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you ever remarry? | 34:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, ma'am. | 34:48 |
| Chris Stewart | Ooh, okay! (Marrow laughs) Never wanted to, huh? | 34:48 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No, ma'am. No, ma'am. | 34:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you like being on your own? | 34:56 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, ma'am. | 34:57 |
| Chris Stewart | How come? | 34:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I just like being on my own. | 34:57 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, how come? | 34:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Because I'm free! (laughs) | 34:57 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you mean when you say "free"? | 35:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I ain't got to cook when I don't want to. I ain't got to do nothing that I don't want to. | 35:10 |
| Chris Stewart | Sounds pretty good. | 35:13 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I'm my own boss. | 35:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Sounds pretty good. (Marrow laughs) Sounds darn good, in fact. (Marrow laughs) Where was your husband born? | 35:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Tillery. | 35:27 |
| Chris Stewart | And his occupation? He worked for the basket mill? | 35:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The Riverside, the basket mill. | 35:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Your mother's name? | 35:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My mama? | 35:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Yeah. | 35:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | My mama dead. | 35:58 |
| Chris Stewart | What's her name? | 35:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Ora Lassiter. O-R-A Lassiter. | 36:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know what her birthdate is? | 36:16 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. June the 25th. | 36:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, it was yesterday. | 36:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 36:28 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know what year she was born? | 36:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I know, but I done forgot. | 36:31 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. What about, when did she die? | 36:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I think she was 70 when she died. Mama been dead about 10 years. | 36:37 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 36:43 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 36:44 |
| Chris Stewart | Where was she born? | 36:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Halifax. | 36:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. And would you say her occupation was a housekeeper? | 36:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes. Cooked. | 36:59 |
| Chris Stewart | Cook. Cook and housekeeper or do you want me to just put cook? | 37:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Nah. She just cooked for hotels and things like that. | 37:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 37:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Cafés. | 37:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 37:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Chef or cook, something like that. | 37:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Chef, okay. What about your father's name? | 37:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | His name was Henry Lassiter. | 37:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you know when his birthdate is? | 37:30 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That I don't. | 37:30 |
| Chris Stewart | When did he die? | 37:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | He died when I was about nine years old, I reckon. | 37:34 |
| Chris Stewart | Was that pretty hard on your family when he died? | 37:49 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I couldn't tell the different because I was small. | 37:53 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your mom ever talk to you about it? | 37:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Uh-uh. I ain't never seen my mom looking like she upset or nothing. We got along good. | 38:00 |
| Chris Stewart | It sounds like you did. Sounds like you worked hard together. | 38:10 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. We got along fine. After my husband died, I raised nine of his children. And some of these folks that lived around me couldn't even take care of two children. I raised nine of his. How I come along, the hard time I had, that don't seem like nothing. It don't seem like it was that hard, it sure don't. | 38:13 |
| Chris Stewart | Where was your father born, Halifax? | 38:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know where daddy was born. | 38:48 |
| Chris Stewart | What was his occupation? | 38:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hmm? | 38:56 |
| Chris Stewart | What kind of work did he do before he died? Do you know? | 38:56 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I don't know. All I know, he worked, was working. I didn't never know nothing about daddy, what he done too much. All I know was he did say he was working. | 39:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. How about your brothers and sisters? Can you give me their names, maybe in— | 39:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I gave my sisters'. I don't know where my brothers is. | 39:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Oh, I don't need to know where they are. I just need to know their names. | 39:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Arthur Lassiter. | 39:28 |
| Chris Stewart | You're the oldest, though, right? | 39:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 39:32 |
| Chris Stewart | Is Arthur next? | 39:33 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | No. | 39:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Who's next after you? | 39:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Sadie B. was after me. | 39:37 |
| Chris Stewart | She died, right? | 39:41 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 39:42 |
| Chris Stewart | Then who? | 39:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Namie Smith. | 39:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Is that her married name? | 39:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 39:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 39:52 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | And Rosa Broadneck. | 39:52 |
| Chris Stewart | Rosa Broadneck? | 39:58 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. And George Thurman. That's a boy. | 40:09 |
| Chris Stewart | George Thurman Lassiter? | 40:15 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Them all. Them all. | 40:16 |
| Chris Stewart | That's it? | 40:16 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 40:16 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. How about your children, names of your children? | 40:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Oh Lord. | 40:39 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm really stretching you now, aren't I? | 40:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yes, Lord. Bessie Mae Bailey. | 40:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Do you remember her birthdate? | 40:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | June 26. | 40:56 |
| Chris Stewart | You were 19 years old, right? | 41:05 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 41:07 |
| Chris Stewart | You were born in 1913. 1932? | 41:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hmm? Yeah. | 41:14 |
| Chris Stewart | She was born in 1932? | 41:14 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. Mm-hmm. | 41:14 |
| Chris Stewart | Who's next? | 41:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | James Edward. | 41:19 |
| Chris Stewart | James Edward? | 41:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 41:24 |
| Chris Stewart | When's his birthdate? | 41:31 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | September 3rd, 1934. | 41:34 |
| Chris Stewart | You're doing really amazingly well. | 41:39 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Huh? | 41:40 |
| Chris Stewart | I said you've got a pretty darn good memory. Who's next? | 41:41 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Arthur Graham. No, yeah. Arthur Graham. | 41:45 |
| Chris Stewart | You know his birthday? | 42:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The 15th of May. He was born, seems like 1944, I believe. Yeah. I think 1944. | 42:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Who's next? | 42:22 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Henry was born the 11th of May. | 42:31 |
| Chris Stewart | I'm sorry? | 42:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | 11th of May. | 42:35 |
| Chris Stewart | Henry? | 42:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 42:45 |
| Chris Stewart | What year was he born? | 42:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | 1945. He was born one year and Arthur Graham was born the other one, like four days. | 42:51 |
| Chris Stewart | Almost a year exactly. | 42:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 43:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Started having babies pretty quick. | 43:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Just like a cat. | 43:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Who is next? | 43:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Ora Evans. | 43:22 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you say Edmunds or Edwards? | 43:26 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Ora Evans. | 43:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Evans. Named for your mother. | 43:28 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. | 43:34 |
| Chris Stewart | When was her birthdate? | 43:35 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hmm? | 43:37 |
| Chris Stewart | When was she born? | 43:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | The 11th of November. I think she 42 years old. I done forgot what year she was born. I think she's 42. | 43:41 |
| Chris Stewart | So that'd be '51, born in '51 if she's 42? | 44:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, something like that. | 44:04 |
| Chris Stewart | We've got five. | 44:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I know. Katherine Carter. | 44:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Named for you. | 44:23 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 44:25 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 44:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | She's '51 in March the 6th. | 44:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. | 44:47 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I can think of the age, but I get the year wrong. | 44:47 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, don't worry about ages. | 44:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | How many is that? | 44:58 |
| Chris Stewart | Six. | 45:00 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | James Edward. | 45:00 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. We've got James Edward. | 45:06 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You got him. | 45:08 |
| Chris Stewart | I've got Bessie Mae, James Edward, Arthur Graham, Henry, Ora, Katherine. | 45:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Jane. | 45:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Jane. | 45:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Jane Stewart. | 45:18 |
| Chris Stewart | Stewart? She's got the same last name as me. | 45:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. You married? | 45:29 |
| Chris Stewart | No. I'm staying single. | 45:33 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Why you staying single? | 45:36 |
| Chris Stewart | Well, I'm not purposely single. Well, although I don't know, I could learn a lesson from you. | 45:36 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What are you trying to learn from me? | 45:43 |
| Chris Stewart | I don't want to mess with those men until I get done with what I want to do. | 45:45 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | All right now. | 45:49 |
| Chris Stewart | Let me tell you. | 45:50 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What you going to be when you finish school? | 45:54 |
| Chris Stewart | I want to teach. | 45:54 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | You do? | 45:55 |
| Chris Stewart | I want to be a teacher. | 45:55 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. I bet you'd make a nice teacher. | 45:55 |
| Chris Stewart | Thank you. I want to. | 45:59 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I got a granddaughter that teaches. | 46:01 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? Where does she teach? | 46:04 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Over there at the primary. | 46:07 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? | 46:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Over there in Scotland Neck. | 46:08 |
| Chris Stewart | She like it? | 46:08 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, she loves it. | 46:08 |
| Chris Stewart | I think it's important. | 46:13 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Children so hard to raise now though. | 46:16 |
| Chris Stewart | I know. That's why I think it's important though. I think teachers are really important. | 46:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 46:24 |
| Chris Stewart | One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. | 46:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | That's all I— | 46:29 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you always work for your brother-in-law? | 0:03 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I worked for anybody that would come along. | 0:05 |
| Chris Stewart | Did your brother-in-law treat you— | 0:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When he worked, he be worked up, caught up. Then somebody else would come along and have me. They'd come along, hire me, I'd go. | 0:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Did you work for Black landowners as well as White landowners? | 0:25 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. That's the most people that would farm 'round here, Black folk. | 0:29 |
| Chris Stewart | So you worked mainly for Black folks? | 0:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-hmm. Ain't no White folk farm 'round here. | 0:36 |
| Chris Stewart | There were some White folk farm over on the other side. Way over on the other side. But you stayed over here? | 0:42 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah, they didn't hire me. | 0:49 |
| Chris Stewart | What was so hard about it? Can you tell me more about why it was so hard? | 0:57 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Bending over picking cotton all day, your back hurting. [indistinct 00:01:14] done real hard, but you had to do something. You had to have some money. | 1:04 |
| Chris Stewart | Did the landowners treat you okay? | 1:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | They didn't have no choice. They were working theirself. | 1:26 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. So I have that you did farm work at various places when you were living here in Tillery. Did you ever belong to any church organization? Oh wait. Are you currently Baptist? | 1:34 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 1:50 |
| Chris Stewart | And what is the name of the church that you belong to? | 1:51 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Shiloh Baptist. | 1:53 |
| Chris Stewart | And what was the church you belonged to when you were living in Weldon? | 1:53 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I didn't belong to nowhere when I lived in Weldon. I just went to Sunday School then, went there. No, I joined the church after I moved to Jackson. | 2:02 |
| Chris Stewart | What church was that? | 2:17 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Boone Chapel. But then when we moved to Scotland Neck, I joined in Scotland Neck, you know, Shiloh. | 2:17 |
| Chris Stewart | Shiloh. Right. | 2:29 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | 'Cause I know I couldn't get back to Jackson. | 2:30 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. Did you belong to any organizations, any community organizations at all? | 2:38 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm (negative). | 2:43 |
| Chris Stewart | Any farming organizations? | 2:43 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Mm-mm (negative). | 2:46 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Do you have any hobbies or anything that you'd like us to write down? Canning maybe? I don't know if that's a hobby. That's more work. But it sounds like you really loved to do it. | 2:46 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | When I was doing it, I liked to do it, but I ain't got nothing to can for now. | 3:08 |
| Chris Stewart | Right. | 3:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | But when I was doing it, you know I had a nervous breakdown one time. | 3:16 |
| Chris Stewart | You did? | 3:18 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | About 12 years ago. | 3:23 |
| Chris Stewart | What happened? | 3:24 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I just had a nervous breakdown all I know. And up there where I go on Thursday, take therapy, to Roanoke Rapids, to you know, they call the day center. It's in the mental health center, but they call it the day treatment in there. It's a room got "Day Treatment" wrote on the window. Anyway, you go up there. I go up there once a week and they think something like that. But the most I be crazy about is their ceramics. | 3:27 |
| Chris Stewart | Ceramics? | 4:19 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. And I go (laughs) so they ain't had nothing in about three months. I said, "This place is getting boring." And one of the ladies that work there over us. She's said, "Hard worker, I know you miserable." I said, "Yeah, 'cause I'm tired of sitting and looking and looking." She said, "well, you'll have some clay next week. And know what she calls me? Hard worker. (laughs) | 4:21 |
| Chris Stewart | Really? Wow. | 5:01 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Hard worker. | 5:01 |
| Chris Stewart | What do you make with the clay? | 5:02 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | I make different things. I'll show you. | 5:05 |
| Chris Stewart | When we go in. | 5:11 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | Yeah. | 5:12 |
| Chris Stewart | Okay. Well guess what? | 5:12 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What? | 5:19 |
| Chris Stewart | Questions are done. There's one more form. | 5:21 |
| Katherine Lassiter Marrow | What? I don't know nothing else to say. | 5:26 |
| Chris Stewart | I know. I'm not going to ask any more questions. I just have one— | 5:28 |
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