Lola Williams (primary interviewee), Erma Boone, and Gracie Valentine interview recording, 1993 June 28

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Chris Stewart	Okay. What we need to do is just to have each of you state your name so that I can get a voice level on the microphone. You're going to have to talk loud because you're losing your voice.	0:00
Lola Williams	Okay. It's just our name?	0:18
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Well, no why don't you list your name and your organization?	0:31
Lola Williams	Okay. You ready?	0:31
Chris Stewart	Yeah, I'm ready.	0:32
Lola Williams	My name is Lola Williams and I work for the Center for Womens Economic Alternatives and Ahoskie, North Carolina and I am the Justice for Women Workers Coordinator.	0:32
Grace Valentine	My name is Grace Valentine and I am a CWA, supposed to be leader. Beginning my training in the next month or so. That's all?	0:46
Lola Williams	Aren't you a Purdue worker?	1:01
Grace Valentine	Yes, I was a Purdue worker for 10, 11 years.	1:04
Irma Boone	My name is Irma Boone. And what am I? That's right, I'm Irma Boone. Volunteer worker at the CWA and I worked Purdue for 13 years.	1:09
Chris Stewart	Is that past tense?	1:25
Irma Boone	Past tense.	1:26
Chris Stewart	Both of you are past tense workers. Congratulations. I'd like to start by asking all of you where you were raised, what part that you were raised in, Northampton or Halifax County, where? And anybody can jump. This is very informal so you can just jump in anytime you want.	1:29
Lola Williams	I was born in Northampton County, but my family moved to Halifax County when I was seven years old. So Halifax County is where I was raised.	1:55
Chris Stewart	What part of Halifax County?	2:07
Lola Williams	In a little town called Tillery, North Carolina.	2:07
Chris Stewart	So you were raised right in—	2:14
Lola Williams	Right in Tillery.	2:14
Chris Stewart	Wow. Were your parents landowners, or?	2:14
Lola Williams	Yes they were. They were landowners.	2:16
Chris Stewart	What about you?	2:28
Grace Valentine	I was born and partially raised in Colerain, North Carolina.	2:28
Chris Stewart	I'm sorry?	2:28
Grace Valentine	Colerain.	2:28
Chris Stewart	Okay.	2:28
Grace Valentine	And we were sharecroppers.	2:28
Chris Stewart	Were you born in Colerain?	2:34
Grace Valentine	Bertie County, yes.	2:36
Chris Stewart	Do you still live in that area?	2:39
Grace Valentine	No, I live in Hertford County now.	2:40
Chris Stewart	How long did you live in Colerain?	2:46
Grace Valentine	Oh, we moved from Colerain to Trap when I was between the age of seven and eight. Sharecroppers, moved to a larger farm. Stayed there until I was 18 and I moved to Ahoskie and been there ever since.	2:53
Chris Stewart	What did you say, what county did you say Colerain was?	3:13
Grace Valentine	Bertie. B-E-R-T-I-E. Bertie County.	3:17
Chris Stewart	I'm sorry, I'm having you clarify.	3:20
Grace Valentine	Go ahead. That's what you here—	3:21
Chris Stewart	I'm just, I'm learning.	3:22
Grace Valentine	Okay.	3:22
Irma Boone	I was born in Bertie County, a place called Merry Hill. And let me see, I stayed there for— I was 14. We moved to Colerain. From Colerain back to Merry Hill. From Merry Hill to Boston, Massachusetts and back to Merry Hill. Been there ever since.	3:27
Chris Stewart	You moved a lot.	3:51
Irma Boone	Moved around, honey.	3:51
Chris Stewart	Why?	3:51
Irma Boone	I moved around. Let me see, when I got married. When I was 14, my grandfather was a sharecropper. Then he moved to Colerain, a larger farm. Then I got married, then we moved back to Merry Hill. Then when I left Merry Hill, then I went to Boston. Then I left Boston, came back to Merry Hill because I got sick. I couldn't stand the climate up there, it's too cold. Then I moved to Ahoskie, Hertford County. Then I went back to Merry Hill and I've been there ever since.	4:01
Chris Stewart	So you basically grew up in Merry Hill.	4:34
Irma Boone	Merry Hill, yeah.	4:38
Chris Stewart	Do either of you remember the home or the place where, well the place where you considered your childhood home? You said you lived in—	4:41
Grace Valentine	We call Glovers Cross. We just—	4:56
Chris Stewart	In where?	4:56
Grace Valentine	Glovers Cross. It was about eight miles from Colerain, maybe 10. And this is where we moved to the larger farm because the kids had grew up and we needed more land to till because everybody was growing up.	4:57
Chris Stewart	How many kids in your family?	5:13
Grace Valentine	It's seven. It was eight, but one died.	5:14
Chris Stewart	Do you remember what your house looked like? What the land was like?	5:20
Grace Valentine	What the house looked like at that time?	5:25
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	5:30
Grace Valentine	As a child, I thought it was all right but to look back on it now, it wasn't.	5:30
Chris Stewart	Sure.	5:35
Grace Valentine	Because we had no inside plumbing. We had no inside water, had a pump at the end of the porch where you had to pump your water. And hog pen was almost in the backyard. Chicken yard was almost in the, it was close around the house, and it was nothing like it is now. But as a child I didn't know any of that. I thought we was getting along great. But as I look back over the years, it wasn't so great.	5:37
Chris Stewart	I'm going to ask the other two [indistinct 00:06:11]. So can you remember your childhood home?	6:08
Lola Williams	Yes.	6:16
Chris Stewart	I think—	6:16
Lola Williams	I have five brothers and no sisters. There were six of us. And my father was buying a farm. It was 40 acres that included some farmland and pasture. Farmland, pasture land and woodland. And for me, we had a two-story house with red shingles, with the upstairs that I hated because it was hotter than in summertime. But I think we lived okay. We grew our own food. My daddy grew a garden, he grew hogs, he had killed a cow every year. He hunted. So we had wild game to eat, so we had plenty of food to eat. So I think it was okay. And we did have, after a few years, we did have indoor plumbing. But when we first moved there, there was no indoor plumbing.	6:19
Chris Stewart	Ms. Williams, did you move into the resettlement? Was it the resettlement?	7:24
Lola Williams	Yes, it was the resettlement. 40 acres and a mule that I moved into.	7:27
Chris Stewart	What year did your family there?	7:29
Lola Williams	In 1947. February of 1947, we moved over here.	7:31
Chris Stewart	So you moved right around the time that the Grants moved?	7:37
Lola Williams	I think we moved maybe a year before they did, but right around the same time, yes.	7:39
Chris Stewart	Who did your father buy the land from?	7:46
Lola Williams	Farmer's Home Administration.	7:49
Chris Stewart	Was it still from the government?	7:52
Lola Williams	Yes. And he ended up having to sell his farms. He started out with one farm and the farm right next to him was for sale, so he bought that one. But before he died, he had to sell them both because he was going in the hole or whatever.	7:52
Chris Stewart	Right.	8:11
Lola Williams	And so we don't, the family do not own any land now.	8:11
Chris Stewart	Mrs. Boone, what do you remember about your childhood home?	8:18
Irma Boone	I don't remember. Well, I remember when I was growing up, I was the smallest one in the house because my mother died when I was five months old and I was raised by my grandmother. And I remember the house, it was a big two-story house, but it won't painted. We didn't have no bathroom, no lights, no electric lights. And we had a well, where you take the bucket and throw it over, pull the water up like that. We had a pump too and we had hogs. Let me see. Hogs, cows and ducks, chicken, guineas, turkey. We had all of that. So we grow, raised the meats and we had a garden.	8:27
Irma Boone	And my grandfather, he hunted a lot. And I remember one thing I never forget, we had to walk to school. We had to walk about a mile and a half to school. And my family life, go back to that. I was the smallest at the house, but there's 13 of us in all. My father remarried and by his last wife is 10 of them. And we get along real good. We don't said "half sister" and "brother". We are sisters and brothers. And my stepmother were real nice to me.	9:12
Irma Boone	And I just had a normal child life. But I was a spoil brat of the family. I got away with murder when nobody else didn't because everybody would call me the spoil brat because my mother died when I was a baby and they just made me the brat. And sometime right now, I'm still the brat.	9:56
Chris Stewart	You got training as a young child to do it.	10:21
Irma Boone	Yes.	10:28
Chris Stewart	Can each of you talk about what might have been a typical day for you on your respective farms where you were? What would a typical day be like when you were younger?	10:28
Irma Boone	For me, going suckering tobacco, that was the worst day of my life. Suckering tobacco. I hate suckering tobacco because I always get sick.	10:42
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	10:50
Irma Boone	I would get halfway up the road, look up at the sun and lay down.	10:52
Grace Valentine	That was sorry.	10:56
Irma Boone	And picking cotton. I'd pick enough cotton to get in enough for the sitting— And my sister could pick 200 pounds and I only picked 98, from 40 to 98 pounds a day. Everybody be way up ahead of me and I look up at the sun and make me a little bag and lay down on it. That's what my typical day if I'm working. That's the truth. I'm telling the truth.	10:59
Grace Valentine	Well, getting back to when I was a child at home about the food problem, we had no food problem.	11:29
Irma Boone	We didn't neither.	11:35
Grace Valentine	We had everything that you could name to eat. The beef, the pork. We had sausages, ham, all year round. I don't eat ham and don't like sausages today because we raised, killed 23 and 25 head of hogs, two or three head of beef, we'll hang it up and let it dry. Acres of garden, everything you can name. Butter beans, corns, string beans, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, rutabagas, onions, collards, cabbage. We had it. We just raised everything that we had.	11:37
Grace Valentine	And a typical day for me would be with the swing car hauling peanuts to the pea picker. I loved the outdoors and I loved the work the men did pulling, priming tobacco, driving the tractor. I did not like the ladies' job.	12:07
Chris Stewart	How come?	12:26
Grace Valentine	I was raised up with five boys. They really didn't know—	12:27
Chris Stewart	You were raised up with five boys.	12:30
Grace Valentine	And I really, I knew I was a girl and I were different but they couldn't outwork me and I was the little runt of the bunch. But a typical day for me would be right now if I could go back to the pea picker with that mule and that cart hauling peanuts today to the picker.	12:32
Chris Stewart	What was it, why did you like doing that so much?	12:47
Grace Valentine	I just loved the outside. I loved the work. I still do. If I could do it, I'd be doing outside work here. I love the work outside. I love the soil. Don't put me in the house. And I used to cook. I started cooking when I was nine years old for the field hands because by us having a large, daddy working on a large farm, we would go to Cofield and Renton and pick up hands, ladies to pick cotton and do to tobacco and I would be the cook. So I did a lot of cooking but I would rather get out there in the field with the men.	12:52
Chris Stewart	You started cooking when you were nine you said?	13:27
Grace Valentine	I was eight. By the time I was nine, I was a professional biscuit maker. I love to cook.	13:34
Chris Stewart	Perfected your recipe.	13:38
Grace Valentine	So I love to cook.	13:40
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	13:41
Grace Valentine	And I started at an early age. And my home life was, I had a beautiful childhood life.	13:42
Irma Boone	So did I.	13:48
Grace Valentine	I can't complain about it but I just got grown too quick. I did. At 15, I quit schooling because I was—	13:49
Chris Stewart	What do you mean by "got grown too quick?"	13:56
Grace Valentine	How can I say? You know how children get sassy? And I was a sassy one. So I dropped out of school, I dropped out of high school in 10th grade.	13:56
Irma Boone	That was something my grandma didn't allow. We wouldn't be sassy around her.	14:09
Grace Valentine	Well I say sassy, I didn't sass my parents. I thought I was being sassy and getting grown by dropping out of school. I thought it was something great to do. My head was too big and I was an A student at that. So that was that. I was married at the age of 17, three babies later. Separated. So that's typical life for me.	14:14
Chris Stewart	You did grow up fast.	14:41
Grace Valentine	Too fast. Well, in the country, you know everything because you see everything. We had all the animals and most of the time when everybody gave birth, I was there helping, peeping too. So we just grew up, I grew up fast. Too fast. But really, my childhood was nice.	14:41
Chris Stewart	Ms. Williams, what about a typical day for you?	14:58
Lola Williams	A typical day for me would be starting at seven years old. That's when my mother got sick. And she had a six-month-old baby and I was the babysitter. I had to wash burlap diapers and fix bottles, do what any other little mother would do for a baby. And by 10, I was cooking, and by 13, I had to cook and work in the fields and take care of babies. I took care of nieces, nephews, cousins. So I was a housewife and mother completely by the time I was 17. I had no children and no husband at my own. I had to work in the fields just like my brothers did. I work until about 10 o'clock. I come to the house, fix dinner. First of all, I fix breakfast first and then go to the fields, then come back home about 10:00 and fix dinner. And I had to cook for other people that was working. We had hired hands too and I was a cook for them. And let me think what else I had. I had to gather the eggs and whatever had to be done.	15:02
Chris Stewart	You were the only woman?	16:19
Lola Williams	Right.	16:20
Chris Stewart	Did your mother die early?	16:20
Lola Williams	No. Well, she got sick in '47. She started getting sick at the end of 1947 when we first moved over here. And she died in 1968. But she was gradually getting worse. Yeah.	16:23
Chris Stewart	So basically, you were the woman of the house.	16:40
Lola Williams	I was the woman of the house.	16:42
Chris Stewart	Can you talk at all about, and we'll hear different stories I assume because you lived in a family that owned land while you were growing up, about relationships between those people who owned the land and those people who worked the land? You said that you had hired people to work on the land as well. Did you know at all about your parents' relationship to the landowners and how— You said you moved around somewhat.	16:46
Grace Valentine	Well, from Colerain to Trap, from a smaller farm to a larger farm. Well, in Colerain I was, when I remember it was about three or four that we were sharecroppers. And to me, the man name was Ike Harrell, the white guy.	17:19
Chris Stewart	Ike Harrell?	17:33
Grace Valentine	Ike Harrell. And he was pretty decent as far as I knew.	17:33
Chris Stewart	What does that mean, "decent"?	17:39
Grace Valentine	He treated us like people. It was no cursing, no harassment of daddy. And my daddy, he good farmer. So when we moved to Trap to Leo Wynn's farm, it was pretty much the same because daddy was like he was, he would tell them in the beginning, "If my kid do something you come to me. You don't go to the child and threaten the child." And honest, one time I remember daddy threatening to kick Leo Wynn's butt.	17:41
Chris Stewart	Leo Wynn, is that—	18:10
Grace Valentine	That was the farm owner.	18:12
Chris Stewart	Kicking his butt.	18:12
Grace Valentine	He was going to kick his butt. This was in '53 or '54, somewhere along there. And that never came up again.	18:14
Chris Stewart	How come he was going to do that?	18:22
Grace Valentine	It was something about the way that the boys was plowing the crop or something and the boss man said something to one of them. And I remember daddy walking behind him telling him if he said something else to one of the boys, he was going to put his foot up his tail. So I mean, but he called it the other word. So the boss man left and went on back to [indistinct 00:18:46] to his home and he never came back and bothered the boys again about anything at all because daddy was plain. And he would have stuck his foot up his tail and Leo Wynn knew that. So that was the first and the last incident that I knew anything about.	18:26
Chris Stewart	Irma?	19:00
Irma Boone	We never had no problem. I don't remember none. Well, as I can remember I was— No, I can't remember because— Let's see. I can't remember having no problems with the farmers.	19:04
Chris Stewart	What about when it came to like settling up time at the end of the year? Were there—	19:20
Grace Valentine	Yes, there was a large discrepancy among the figures, but [indistinct 00:19:30] my father could not read nor write. So he could tell him that he was paying so much for one thing and which he would be paying for something else. But daddy always make good even though with the discrepancy in the prices of different things that he used for the farm, daddy always make good money. Always.	19:29
Chris Stewart	He took care of his family.	19:54
Grace Valentine	Very well. Very well.	19:58
Chris Stewart	Do you remember anything about, anything during the settlement time?	19:58
Irma Boone	All I know every Christmas, they were settling around by Christmas, everybody always got new clothes. They already at Christmastime, they already had a plenty. And I was like I said, I was the smallest one in the house, I always got the most. And we just had every, I mean, we just had everything we needed. Not what we wanted.	20:03
Chris Stewart	Right.	20:27
Irma Boone	We had everything we needed. And I can't remember. I just remember one time the boss called one of my cousins "Black" and my grandfather told him, said, "Now look, I can call her "Black" but you better not call her "Black" no more." But back in that time they didn't call us Black. And so he told him, said, "You better not call her "Black" no more, do I'm going to your—" He was going to his butt. He didn't call us "Black" no more and didn't call my cousin "Black" anymore. But far as everything else, everything was nice with me. Only that's walking to school, that was my problem because I was lazy.	20:27
Chris Stewart	What about you Mrs. Williams?	21:06
Lola Williams	I had to walk to school too for a while and then we got, there was bus that would come maybe two miles from our house. We still had to walk to catch the bus. We had to stay out of school a lot in order to work on the farm certain times in year. And my daddy did rent some land too. And we had no problems with that because we had already heard that the man he was renting the farm from would cheat you, so.	21:13
Chris Stewart	Wouldn't cheat you?	21:43
Lola Williams	He would.	21:45
Chris Stewart	He would.	21:45
Lola Williams	Yes.	21:46
Chris Stewart	So you knew he would.	21:46
Lola Williams	Yes. My daddy couldn't read but he could count money. But I could read and write, so when he settled I was the one to go with him. So we didn't get cheated. I'm sure of that.	21:48
Chris Stewart	How did your father, where did you father get workers, day laborers to help?	22:05
Lola Williams	How?	22:08
Chris Stewart	How. Where did he go?	22:09
Lola Williams	People in the community who did not own their own land. And some people who own their own land may have finished. If they had finished their chopping, they would come over and help us chop or we would help there. We just helped each other do the work. And we didn't charge each other monies, all we did was feed them. That's why I said I was a cook. So we just cooked for the community.	22:11
Grace Valentine	Give them dinners.	22:41
Lola Williams	We just helped each other like that. But we did get people from Scotland Neck, Weldon, Halifax to pick cotton.	22:42
Chris Stewart	City people? People from towns?	22:51
Lola Williams	Yeah, town.	22:54
Chris Stewart	Town.	22:54
Lola Williams	They're town people.	22:54
Chris Stewart	How much were people getting paid? Do you remember?	22:57
Irma Boone	Down my way it were two cents a pound. I never forget that because I didn't never make much no way. Two cents a pound. A pound of cotton, two cent.	23:01
Lola Williams	Yeah, for picking cotton. But for chopping, I think it was something like $2 or $3 a day.	23:11
Irma Boone	Yeah, $2 a day.	23:14
Lola Williams	Something like that.	23:14
Irma Boone	Down my way, it was $2 a day. I remember that.	23:17
Chris Stewart	Do you remember that, Mrs. Valentine?	23:17
Grace Valentine	The cotton was $3 a hundred picking per pound.	23:19
Chris Stewart	For a hundred pounds?	23:25
Grace Valentine	Uh-huh, for a hundred pounds, it would be $3 because we had some people to come from Winton could pick over 200 pounds per day and they would make $7 or $8. They thought they had made some money. And the chopping was about $2 or $3 a day. And during the tobacco season time, we would get family members but we would pay them. And I can't, I don't know how much they were charging, but I knew my aunts and my uncles would help. But we never helped anybody. But daddy would hire people to help us but we never worked out.	23:26
Irma Boone	I just helped my aunt and I remember they would pay me something like $2 a day, which I didn't deserve.	23:56
Chris Stewart	You're just really hard on yourself.	24:02
Irma Boone	I mean, I'm telling you the truth.	24:07
Chris Stewart	Okay.	24:07
Irma Boone	It's the truth. I ain't going to tell you— I ain't telling you no lie. I just was a lazy child because I guess because I was smallest.	24:07
Grace Valentine	Spoiled. Spoiled.	24:16
Irma Boone	I was spoiled. And my sister would get more because she would work and I always played a lot. I didn't get much. And it me and my sister, so. It was about 10 of us at the house and like time put into tobacco, we would help my aunts and uncles and stuff like that. They would just give me this, say, "That's the baby." I would just go out there and help them. And we handled everything. It was just kind of back in them days, no lights and mosquitoes were bad and we was out there at night. So we'd make a smoke in the yard, use a pile of grass and make a smoke. And then just claim we were smoking the mosquitoes away. You ever did that?	24:19
Grace Valentine	I did. We did. At the tobacco barn, was curingtobacco with wood.	25:10
Irma Boone	Yeah.	25:16
Grace Valentine	And I would go down the tobacco barn and stay with daddy down there all night or which one of the boys that was the night's supposed to do it. And really it was all right. It wasn't like it is now. I see so much. It's a big difference now because they have taken all the farms away from the Black people and it's just a big difference. It's just so much different thing.	25:18
Irma Boone	No.	25:40
Lola Williams	I now remember during my childhood, it's like Easter time, Christmastime, 4th of July, we would go shopping in the Roanoke Rapids area, which is about 25 miles from here, which was the closest. But there were no public facilities for Blacks.	25:42
Chris Stewart	What did they call Roanoke Rapids then? Something like— [indistinct 00:26:15] something. Because it's real White.	26:04
Grace Valentine	Well, [indistinct 00:26:19] got that name being a redneck town.	26:17
Lola Williams	I think they all were. Maybe we were too young to notice really what was going on or we were too isolated to know what was really going on. But I do remember not having any bathroom to go to after shopping all day, so.	26:23
Chris Stewart	What'd you do?	26:36
Lola Williams	Stopped in the woods.	26:37
Grace Valentine	Behind a car line?	26:37
Lola Williams	Yeah. Or went behind a building. But there were also, if you got anything to eat, it was like you had to stand on the outside to get it. And it had "Colored" and "White". And there was a place in Rich Square, this is in Northampton County, about 17 miles from here. That's where I grew up. I mean, where I was born, it had "White only" and "Colored" on the outside of a building where you could go and get ice cream. And I remember myself and three or four of my friends went up to the "White only" hole and asked for some "White only" ice cream. We were teenagers then, but we didn't get it.	26:42
Chris Stewart	What did they say?	27:30
Lola Williams	He just looked at us real funny and we didn't get any ice cream. So we just left.	27:37
Grace Valentine	You went to the "White only" window. I remember that at the river as a child, they had one restaurant there.	27:40
Lola Williams	Where at?	27:48
Grace Valentine	Colerain River.	27:48
Lola Williams	Okay.	27:48
Grace Valentine	At Perry-Wynns Fish Company. And it was a sign over the door that said "White only". And around the building on the back was a window that said "Colored". So all the Black people that worked at the river had to go around the building to this window in order to get the sandwich or whatever they wanted. And most of the time, the sandwich would be so badly that they couldn't eat it. Either the egg sandwich would be too salty or either it would be fried so hard it would be crispy. And the bathroom for the Black people, it wasn't as decent as this in here now. It was more like just a little outhouse with something hanging down the front of it. No decent enclosure or running. And it had the "White" and the "Colored" bathrooms. The White people had the running water and commodes and the Black people had just the stool. You couldn't wash your hands.	27:50
Grace Valentine	I don't know if they had a spigot outside that after you go to the bathroom to come back to eat or whatever, you had to wash your hands on the outside. I remember that from a child.	28:53
Chris Stewart	And this was at what company?	29:03
Grace Valentine	It was Perry and Wynns Fish company.	29:05
Chris Stewart	Oh.	29:07
Grace Valentine	This was back in 1952, '53.	29:08
Chris Stewart	Is this any relationship to the man who owned the farm?	29:10
Grace Valentine	The one that the farm that we was working at.	29:14
Chris Stewart	Were these brothers or was it the same person?	29:17
Grace Valentine	This was the same one, the same the people. And Leonard Perry and Leo Wynn Senior were the owners. Then the father died, which left Leo Wynn Junior, which was the one that we farmed with. And then there was another Leo Third under him, who got his butt kicked over in county [indistinct 00:29:42] by Black boys and ran him back across the river, so he can't go back over there. [indistinct 00:29:49] We've always had.	29:19
Lola Williams	I remember going to the doctor and looking over to my left, there's nothing but Whites and it says "White only". And to my left, it says—	29:51
Grace Valentine	Right.	30:00
Lola Williams	— "Colored". So we were separated in a doctor's office. So everywhere you went, but this is as I was getting older. Before that, I guess I wasn't old enough to understand racism or whatever was happening.	30:01
Irma Boone	It was a dentist in Hertford, he had Black and White. And if you get there early before a White, a White would come in about an hour after you got there, he would take that White one before he would take you. And so he would, like he would start pulling your tooth, you'll say, "Oh it hurt." He wouldn't stop. But if a White one said, "Oh", he would stop. So he pulled one for me and I promised my good Lord he'll never pull another one because he sure didn't because two weeks later he died.	30:15
Chris Stewart	Serves him right.	30:46
Grace Valentine	But we had an old country doctor named Dr. Cradle.	30:53
Irma Boone	Yeah, I remember him.	30:55
Grace Valentine	Dr. Cradle. Dr. Cradle, to me, didn't make no difference. I don't know about everybody else.	30:56
Irma Boone	Yeah, I remember Dr. Cradle.	31:01
Grace Valentine	But Dr. Cradle would come out to the Black people home.	31:02
Irma Boone	Yeah.	31:04
Grace Valentine	Just as quick as he would go to the White people home. Just, he was an old country doctor. He cursed with every breath he drew. But he was good in the area.	31:04
Irma Boone	Delivered babies and everything.	31:13
Grace Valentine	Didn't make him any difference. And God, I was five, six, seven years old and he was making house calls.	31:14
Chris Stewart	Was he getting in trouble for doing that?	31:23
Grace Valentine	No.	31:23
Chris Stewart	Everybody just understood?	31:23
Grace Valentine	Well, [indistinct 00:31:29] that was Dr. Cradle.	31:28
Chris Stewart	Well, even like the rich, white people?	31:29
Grace Valentine	Well yes, all them was friends together. But Dr. Cradle didn't care. He would curse them out and keep on going because he would the only doctor in town. So if they got upset with him going to the Black people house, if they got sick, if he wouldn't go, that was tough luck. So Dr. Cradle didn't care.	31:32
Chris Stewart	Were there any midwives around?	31:49
Irma Boone	Yeah.	31:49
Grace Valentine	Oh yes.	31:49
Irma Boone	I remember them.	31:49
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	31:49
Irma Boone	My cousin had a baby. They always told us back in those days, the parents didn't tell you, the grandparents didn't tell you nothing. They told me that, they would saying, "Miss Pat brought that baby in that big bag." And so that morning, I was determined to see what was coming in that big bag. And I had an upstairs and had a little crack up there like that. I had get down my knees and I would just peep and see what Miss Pat was taking out of that bag. But I stopped.	31:56
Grace Valentine	Why?	32:18
Irma Boone	Because my grandma smack my tail.	32:18
Chris Stewart	Oh.	32:18
Grace Valentine	I thought you saw where the baby came from.	32:23
Irma Boone	I didn't get chance because grandma caught me down there peeping. So that time you didn't, you were just— When she said "stop", you know when to stop. You wouldn't go back because you know what going to happen. We have plenty of midwives. Miss Pat, Miss Hardy. Miss Pat and Miss Hardy. Darlene husband's grandmother. I knew her. And there was another lady that I can't remember her name right now. I know there were three of them.	32:25
Chris Stewart	Which women used a midwife and which women you called Dr. Cradle? Or—	32:56
Grace Valentine	Some of both. They would use both because see, they had, the midwives that I knew, I was small but I knew when it was time. My brother, when my brother, my sister, my brother was born, I was a little bitty thing. But I remember that because they ran me outdoors. And when my sister was born, Dr. Cradle had told the midwife, I can't think of her name. Her name was Tanya or somebody. She had came out to the house. That was when my sister was born. Yeah. Mama had a difficult birth, so they sent for him. And I'll never forget, my little baby brother got him a bush. The yard broom was going to go in the house and we're going to beat the baby. She was just born. Dr. Cradle—	33:04
Chris Stewart	Why was he going to do that?	33:51
Grace Valentine	Jealousy.	33:51
Chris Stewart	Oh.	33:51
Grace Valentine	Little kids are jealous of babies. Dr. Cradle came out and came to the door and told us we had a little sister. My little brother just, he was walking good, about two or three, went and got the yard broom. He couldn't pick it up. He was dragging it behind him, coming in the back door, he was going to beat that baby.	33:51
Chris Stewart	I hope somebody caught him.	34:02
Grace Valentine	They got him.	34:06
Irma Boone	They wasn't about to get in there.	34:08
Chris Stewart	"Give me that broom. Give me that broom."	34:10
Grace Valentine	He was going to beat the baby.	34:10
Chris Stewart	Do you remember any— Well first of all, did family live around you? Were you relatives living around you?	34:15
Grace Valentine	Yes, yes, yes. We always lived— On the road that we lived on in Colerain, there was my daddy's sister. There was two of my daddy's sister, my mother's sister and a whole host of relatives because in 1940, I think it was about nine of us babies born. I told the women they got together said who was going to go home and do what. So a month later it was, I mean, nine months later, here come a baby. In June, July, August, September, October. They just-	34:19
Chris Stewart	It was a busy spring.	34:58
Grace Valentine	The mothers had got together on that one. It was about nine of us born that year.	35:00
Chris Stewart	So you had a lot of kids to play with?	35:05
Grace Valentine	I did not play with them.	35:07
Chris Stewart	Really? How come?	35:09
Grace Valentine	I was selfish.	35:09
Chris Stewart	What do you mean by you were "selfish"?	35:10
Grace Valentine	I was a loner as a child and still am to a certain point. How can I say it? I love to read. I started reading the Bible when I was eight and when the kids was outside playing, I was in the room reading the Bible. So I grew up with the Word and I tried my best to live according to what the Bible said. But then when I got grown, I thought— I strayed away from the Word. So I just never got back to be with people and still am a loner to a certain degree now.	35:14
Chris Stewart	How about the two of you? Did you have relatives that lived around you?	35:54
Lola Williams	I had relatives but we saw each other maybe on weekends. But the neighbors' children, everybody had at least five or six children. And we would always get together and play late in the evening after the work was done.	36:07
Irma Boone	Let's see by my part. I stayed— My father, I stayed in walking distance of his house. And then about four or five, about five, I find neighbors around and we, at night, sometime we would walk, my grandmother would walk out to meet Miss Pearl and we would walk out with her like that. And by time when the sun go down in the evening, when that sun get behind them trees if we was out anywhere, we better been in the house, in the sight of the house. We couldn't stay out after sun went down or we had to be in that yard or in the sun so they could see us at that time.	36:24
Chris Stewart	You mentioned it that your grandparents, did you live with your grandparents the entire time you were growing up while your father was living down the road [indistinct 00:37:21]?	37:12
Irma Boone	The whole time.	37:18
Chris Stewart	Were there any places that you weren't supposed to go where you grew up that either you knew you weren't supposed to go because you were Black or you knew you weren't supposed to go because there were people there that your mom and dad didn't approve of?	37:23
Grace Valentine	Both.	37:40
Chris Stewart	Okay.	37:40
Grace Valentine	At the river, because I wasn't old enough to go in the big garden in Colerain because I was a child. But at the river, I couldn't go in the cafe and I couldn't go in the White people bathroom. And as a young teenager, there were people that my father wouldn't let me associate with such as a girl that had had a baby in the early age and those kind of things. But I always think that he didn't approve of for me. And wearing pants, he wouldn't let me wear pants. So those were the only three things that really stood out in my life was the fact that I couldn't go to the river and go to the cafe. Any of the cafes in Colerain. They had the "Black" and the "Colored" sign, and the part about my teenage cousins having babies and pants. That was the only three things that really stand out.	37:43
Chris Stewart	What was at the river?	38:38
Grace Valentine	This is where the Chowan River is. The fishery is there.	38:38
Chris Stewart	Oh okay.	38:41
Grace Valentine	It's the fishery. It was then, and still is.	38:42
Chris Stewart	Okay, so your parents didn't want you to have to go into—	38:45
Grace Valentine	Well, we couldn't go. We couldn't to the river. We could go to the river but we couldn't go into all the places. There were certain areas that was for White only.	38:50
Chris Stewart	Okay.	38:55
Grace Valentine	The eating places anyway and the bathroom. And as a young girl growing up, the girls had babies. Then they wouldn't let you associate with them because they said it was a bad influence. And my daddy never let me wear pants until I got grown.	38:56
Chris Stewart	Were there places that were dangerous for you though?	39:11
Grace Valentine	No.	39:11
Chris Stewart	Not public places like restaurants and stuff, but areas that you knew?	39:16
Grace Valentine	No, because long then you could walk from here back to Ahoskie and nobody would bother you. But now you can't do it. You can't even walk from house to house at night without somebody [indistinct 00:39:32]. But back then, people looked after each other's children. If I would go to somebody's house, the mother and the father would make sure I would leave their house to get back home before dark. And the same thing with my parents. It's time for you to go home and you better not sass them or you got a butt beating. But see now, the law won't even let us hit our children. So there's been a big difference in the change of the way of living. Other than that, I think I did pretty good with myself.	39:20
Chris Stewart	How about [indistinct 00:40:06] places where—	40:04
Lola Williams	Yeah, there were a barbecue place in Scotland Neck. There was a place for us, but there was also a place for them and you couldn't go on that side.	40:10
Chris Stewart	What about— Pick a little house or just places that you're—	40:25
Lola Williams	Oh, that was a place city right up there in Halifax haven't been too many years ago. I don't know where it's washed away now, but for many, many years "White only" was wrote in big, bold letters in the front. "White only." I couldn't tell you what it looked like in there because I never stopped to go in.	40:27
Chris Stewart	Were there any—	40:46
Grace Valentine	Well, we had our own. The Black people owned their own land. They owned their own juke joints and they owned their own bootlegging joints. So we would go from what mom and daddy, the family used to have barbecues and sell barbecue. So therefore, there was going to be the drinks and the music there in the house. So we always had somewhere like that to go among the Black people, among the Blacks.	40:47
Chris Stewart	Right. What kind of music was played there?	41:13
Grace Valentine	Rock roll.	41:17
Lola Williams	Good music. Not like the stuff they play now.	41:18
Irma Boone	Good music.	41:18
Grace Valentine	Rock and roll.	41:18
Chris Stewart	What's good music?	41:18
Grace Valentine	Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, all those old guys like that.	41:24
Lola Williams	There was a place, a group of us teenagers went and bought sodas and we didn't leave a deposit in the bottle. One, it was six of us and we left a bottle for five sodas. One soda, we did not have a bottle to replace it. And we didn't pay the money for the bottle. And we rode off and we got shot at.	41:34
Irma Boone	What?	41:56
Lola Williams	And the owner was a White owner. He was White. He shot at us for one soda bottle. Don't look so serious.	41:57
Chris Stewart	Was anybody hurt?	42:06
Lola Williams	No. He probably shot up in the air.	42:07
Chris Stewart	Up in the air.	42:09
Lola Williams	Probably. Anyway, we heard the gunshots.	42:12
Chris Stewart	Right.	42:13
Irma Boone	Well, this was in the sixties. I never forget it that day. I was cooking at a place called Midway down my home?	42:16
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm.	42:24
Irma Boone	Well, this girl said, "Well, that nigger been having his car parked in my yard all day." And he wish he would come get his so-and-so car. And, "These niggers in here ought to go somewhere and sit down." So she come in and ask for a BLT. I was the cook. I fix her the best BLT she ever ate. It was so nasty, honey, it was a shame. And she ate it. She said, "Oh, that was the best one." And she asked for another one and I fixed her another one the same way. It was nasty. I ain't going to tell you what I did, but it was real nasty.	42:24
Grace Valentine	That's what I was going to ask.	43:10
Chris Stewart	That's what I want to know.	43:10
Irma Boone	I'm not going to tell you.	43:10
Chris Stewart	You don't have to tell me who it was, just tell me what was in it.	43:10
Grace Valentine	Oh my goodness. No, you didn't.	43:10
Irma Boone	She spit in it.	43:10
Grace Valentine	Uh-uh. Something else. She didn't spit. No you didn't, Irma. Can you write it? Uh-oh. So that's material. Let's leave that one alone.	43:22
Irma Boone	So she wanted two. She ate that sandwich.	43:26
Grace Valentine	And got another one.	43:28
Irma Boone	She got two. They were the best ones she ever had.	43:29
Grace Valentine	Look.	43:31
Chris Stewart	It was the special seasoning, right?	43:31
Grace Valentine	Oh my goodness.	43:37
Irma Boone	Some of everything was in that sandwich.	43:38
Grace Valentine	She ate it?	43:39
Irma Boone	She didn't know what was in it.	43:42
Grace Valentine	She didn't know.	43:43
Irma Boone	Just like sometime I go to places now, I don't, if the place don't look right, I don't eat because I know how I used to do when I was cooking back in the sixties.	43:45
Grace Valentine	I didn't. I love to cook. I used to cook at Pizza Inn, but I gave them delicious food.	43:53
Irma Boone	But see that's what I did too, only but her.	44:01
Grace Valentine	I never thought of that.	44:01
Irma Boone	It was nasty. I ain't going to lie to you. It was nasty.	44:01
Grace Valentine	No, no. I never did that.	44:01
Irma Boone	I did because she had no business. She said, "That nigger back there too." So she called me a nigger, so I gave her—	44:09
Grace Valentine	And then came and asked you for something to eat?	44:13
Irma Boone	A BLT. And I gave her a BLT too.	44:15
Grace Valentine	With BSH in it, huh?	44:18
Irma Boone	Nah, it won't that. It won't none of that.	44:18
Grace Valentine	Oh my goodness.	44:18
Irma Boone	It was nasty sandwich.	44:18
Grace Valentine	Okay.	44:18
Irma Boone	But I wouldn't give nobody else one like that.	44:18
Chris Stewart	Where did y'all go to school?	44:18
Grace Valentine	I went to Colerain Elementary School for one year I think. And we moved when I was six to Trap. And then we was, I walked to Colerain School for a year, and then we moved to Trap and we were bus from where I lived to Powellsville.	44:33
Chris Stewart	To where?	44:53
Grace Valentine	Powellsville.	44:53
Chris Stewart	Okay.	44:53
Grace Valentine	So that's where I stayed until I got grown and quit. To the 10th grade.	44:57
Irma Boone	I went to Rock Hill School, but we had to walk about a mile and a half. And from there I went to WS Eldridge in Windsor and was bused there.	45:04
Chris Stewart	What was the name of the school? The second one?	45:12
Irma Boone	WS Eldridge.	45:12
Chris Stewart	Okay.	45:12
Irma Boone	Then I went to C.G. White when we moved to Colerain.	45:20
Lola Williams	I started school at Creecy Elementary School in Rich Square. And I don't remember seeing a bus, but I was only five, so, or six. So I guess I wouldn't remember. So I guess everybody was walking because I really don't remember ever seeing a school bus. And when I moved over here, I went Tillery Chapel Elementary School, Raleigh High School. I graduated from high school in Scotland Neck.	45:27
Chris Stewart	Did you like school?	45:55
Lola Williams	I loved it. I did.	45:55
Irma Boone	I did. Until I moved to Powellsville and I couldn't get along with the teacher. Ms. Marsh. I never forget Ms. Marsh.	46:04
Grace Valentine	You went to Ms. Marsh too?	46:08
Irma Boone	Yeah, I had. Ms. Marsh didn't get along.	46:08
Grace Valentine	I loved Ms. Marsh.	46:08
Irma Boone	She didn't have no eyebrows. She didn't have no hair. I always called her the monster lady.	46:12
Grace Valentine	I got to [indistinct 00:46:18]—	46:16
Irma Boone	I couldn't stand Ms. Marsh. She didn't have no hair. She didn't have no eyebrows.	46:18
Grace Valentine	That didn't have nothing to do with—	46:22

Chris Stewart	What did you like about Ms. Marsh?	0:03
Grace Valentine	She was strict, very strict. With me, she was. And the second grade, the third grade at CJ White, I was teacher's pet. I always been teacher's pet because I knew my homework, I did my homework, and we had an elderly lady come in Mrs. Rainer. Do you remember?	0:05
Irma Boone	Yes I do know Mrs. Rainer.	0:25
Grace Valentine	Okay, I taught Mrs. Rainer. I taught Abraham Sessoms. I was their teacher, because the teacher, she really didn't have time to spend with them, learn how to make the ABCs, and how to read. And Mrs. Rainer would put so much Clorox in her clothes, she had an offensive odor, and nobody would be bothered with her, so that was my job. All the little snotty-nosed boys and girls that were string up from here to here, I had to be their teacher. And there was several kids that I taught all the way through as I went along, because the teachers were having [indistinct 00:01:14].	0:29
Chris Stewart	Really?	1:13
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm. Mrs. Betty Rainer graduated from high school. Now, I taught her. I got grown and quit, and she finished high school.	1:16
Chris Stewart	Why did you say people wouldn't have anything do with them?	1:23
Grace Valentine	Well, the parents wasn't keeping the kids clean. If you don't bathe kids, and keep their clothes clean, they will have a odor. Mrs. Betty Rainer, by being an old lady, she used too much Clorox to clean her clothes, to be pretty and white. They were beautiful and white, but the odor, she didn't rinse them enough to get the odor out. So, that was another odor into the classroom with the kids that wasn't bathed. So, that was my job.	1:26
Grace Valentine	But it didn't make me any different because the kids need to learn, so that was my job. There was about seven of them that the teacher would let me teach, because she knew I already knew.	1:57
Chris Stewart	Would you follow the same lessons that the teacher just put—	2:09
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm. We did the same things. Some of them was slow. You have to go back and they have to learn how to make the ABCs, and show them the picture words. They wouldn't know that. Mrs. Betty Rainer, she wanted to come a Sunday School teacher, that was why she came back to school in the 3rd grade. And, like I said, I got grown and quit. Mrs. Betty graduated and marched, and became that Sunday School teacher that she wanted to be.	2:15
Lola Williams	How old was she when she went back to school?	2:41
Grace Valentine	About 60 so. She was a old lady.	2:44
Irma Boone	Mrs. Rainer was an old lady.	2:46
Lola Williams	You taught her?	2:47
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm. Ms. Betty.	2:48
Chris Stewart	Were there lots of adults that went back to school, or was that an unusual—	2:57
Grace Valentine	She was the only one that was there in the classroom with me. I don't know how many more, because I didn't pay any attention, because I was a small kid. But I remember Ms. Betty, and Abraham Sessom, and there was quite a few more kids. Like I say, the mother wouldn't clean them up before they left home, and Mrs. Booker— You remember Mrs. Booker? She was a little old lady, she was quiet, but she was black. That was a teacher that started me out with helping those people.	2:58
Irma Boone	No, I don't remember her, but I remember Ms. Marsh.	3:25
Chris Stewart	Never forget her.	3:28
Irma Boone	Never forget Ms. Marsh.	3:32
Chris Stewart	What kind of things did you learn? And what kind of things did they teach you?	3:38
Grace Valentine	Everything. The basic—	3:42
Chris Stewart	Reading, writing?	3:48
Grace Valentine	Geography, science.	3:52
Chris Stewart	What was your favorite subjects?	3:52
Lola Williams	Math.	3:54
Chris Stewart	Why?	3:55
Grace Valentine	Maths too.	3:55
Lola Williams	I like a challenge.	3:56
Grace Valentine	It's [indistinct 00:03:58].	3:57
Chris Stewart	Rise to the challenge.	3:57
Lola Williams	It's bigger than a challenge. I don't know, I just, I liked maths and reading.	4:01
Grace Valentine	I never liked algebra. I don't know one thing about algebra. I couldn't do it. I think that's why I didn't like Ms. Marsh. They always stay [indistinct 00:04:21].	4:09
Chris Stewart	What did you say you liked, Ms. Valentine?	4:13
Grace Valentine	Math and reading, spelling. I liked it all.	4:24
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:04:26]?	4:26
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm. I liked it all.	4:26
Chris Stewart	Who made decisions in your families? Decisions about finances or about who disciplined the kids. Who made decisions about maybe who you could date?	4:26
Grace Valentine	My grandmother.	4:46
Grace Valentine	My grandmother made all the decisions, and she would say, "Birdie, if you don't like it, tough." What she said went. And she didn't tell you do something but one time. And you know, girl, you better move then. My grandmother made all the decisions.	4:49
Chris Stewart	Was your grandfather alive?	5:05
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm.	5:07
Chris Stewart	And she would still rule?	5:09
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm.	5:10
Irma Boone	Yeah. Mom made the decision.	5:12
Lola Williams	My daddy made the financial decisions, and my momma, she probably made some of those too, I just don't know it. But I know she made all other decisions. So, who I dated, when I go, when I couldn't, what I could wear, and what I couldn't. It was mama. That I remember.	5:15
Chris Stewart	Sounds like there might have been some, mm, shall we say, conflict? Over that?	5:35
Grace Valentine	Yes. And that situation.	5:41
Lola Williams	[indistinct 00:05:44].	5:43
Grace Valentine	And that situation, with me, it was. Because I always been a head strong. What you tell me don't do, it's what I did. And my father always tried to pick the guys that I was supposed to date, but it didn't work. That's why I say, I got grown too early. Because, whoever I wanted to date, that was my business. Tough luck on him.	5:44
Chris Stewart	Tough luck on the guy you were going to date? Or your father?	6:12
Grace Valentine	Tough luck on my daddy.	6:12
Chris Stewart	So, your father wanted to try and decide that, but—	6:13
Grace Valentine	But, not with me.	6:18
Chris Stewart	So—	6:19
Grace Valentine	But, I wasn't a bad girl now. But, he drink and mama, they separated a couple of times. But mama came back home. So, I said, if they couldn't get it together for them, how could they tell me what to do?	6:20
Chris Stewart	Did your mom leave when they separated? Or did your dad leave?	6:36
Grace Valentine	She left. Mama left.	6:39
Chris Stewart	And you would stay?	6:41
Grace Valentine	We all would stay home, but she would— they would get into an argument or fight, and she would go. My father was a good provider, but he would get fiddling, as anything you can remember. I had a mean father.	6:43
Chris Stewart	What do you mean?	6:57
Grace Valentine	He wanted to fuss and fight with mama.	6:59
Chris Stewart	About what?	7:02
Grace Valentine	It would make him no different about what, anything. He was just a mean person, until we got up big enough to beat him.	7:02
Grace Valentine	And then he had to be a good person, because he's no—	7:15
Chris Stewart	Did you fight back?	7:19
Grace Valentine	We would. I would. In a heartbeat, because he was [indistinct 00:07:23] big old mama not around me.	7:20
Chris Stewart	Did he beat on her a lot?	7:25
Grace Valentine	Not really, but too much, because it was no need. Mama was a good woman. She stayed home with us, and raised the kids, and sorted that everything went on. Even in him absence, when he was calling hiself a court man.	7:27
Chris Stewart	A what?	7:38
Grace Valentine	A courted man. He would have him a friend on the side. So, I guess, when the woman wouldn't do right out there at the street, he want come home and take it out on mama. Until we got big enough to stop it.	7:40
Chris Stewart	How did you stop it?	7:52
Grace Valentine	By tearing his—	7:54
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:07:56].	7:55
Grace Valentine	— tearing his tail up. That's how you stop.	7:55
Chris Stewart	But you were the only girl among five boys—	8:03
Grace Valentine	I have a little sister, but she was yelling at me. But they wouldn't take the chances I would, because they could be fighting each other, I would get in the midst of it. That didn't make no sense.	8:03
Irma Boone	See, I never had that problem.	8:11
Grace Valentine	I did.	8:14
Chris Stewart	What kind of chances do you think it took to try and stop it?	8:19
Grace Valentine	With a meat clever and a shotgun. What kind of chance do you think I had?	8:22
Chris Stewart	Oh, now I'm going to have you to explain the meat clever, and the shotgun?	8:26
Grace Valentine	Mama would have the meat clever, dad would had a shotgun.	8:26
Grace Valentine	She would be chasing him with the meat clever, I would never forget it, Lord. They was fussing and fighting at 12 o'clock, at lunch time. He go slap her, run out the kitchen. She grabbed the meat clever. He couldn't get to the gun because she was too close on him. And we had a long front porch, oh, that's funny now, dad were running so fast, he jumped on the porch, slid to the front door, went in the house and got behind a dresser, that mama couldn't find him.	8:30
Grace Valentine	So, I knew where he was, and he said to me, "Baby, where she at? I thought she were gone?" So, then he gets the gun. He got shoot her, for chasing him with a meat clever, and the boys take the gun away from him.	8:53
Chris Stewart	How old were you?	9:09
Grace Valentine	How old were I been? About 10 or 11.	9:09
Irma Boone	I never had that problem.	9:09
Grace Valentine	I did. I always have been the referee.	9:14
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:09:16].	9:15
Irma Boone	The only thing my grandma would say, you only got have one— she was always say, you only have one friend coming to that house at the time. [indistinct 00:09:27] some people—	9:16
Grace Valentine	No, [indistinct 00:09:28].	9:24
Irma Boone	— I had two little guys come there, and she was [indistinct 00:09:30] one friend at a time come to the house. But, it was real fun in there. The only thing I remember that really, when I was little, my aunt, and her husband was in the field, digging sweet potatoes, and he was a rover too. And she was getting at him about hanging out all night.	9:27
Irma Boone	Now, he jumped up and slapped her. Went ahead and she picked up a big sweet potato then throw it and knock him right straight out. And she'd bail out.	9:47
Grace Valentine	Oh, my goodness.	9:53
Irma Boone	That was funny to me, I know—	9:53
Chris Stewart	You got to do what you got to do.	9:53
Irma Boone	Yeah. That's what she did. She knocked him out with a big sweet potato.	10:06
Chris Stewart	Here's a question, at what point do you feel like— you've already answered this [indistinct 00:10:16], do you feel like you were treated like an adult woman, you became a woman, what point in your life? I'm not going to start with you, I'll start with you. Good question, huh?	10:13
Grace Valentine	It is for her. But what she had to do at the age of six.	10:32
Lola Williams	Well, I was seven already.	10:36
Lola Williams	You go asking me?	10:36
Chris Stewart	I'm asking you.	10:43
Lola Williams	Oh, when did I become—	10:45
Chris Stewart	When do you feel people treated you— when did you feel like you were an adult woman?	10:47
Lola Williams	13.	10:52
Chris Stewart	Why?	10:54
Lola Williams	Because of the responsibilities that I had.	10:55
Chris Stewart	So, you felt like you were a mother and a housewife at that?	10:57
Lola Williams	Mm-hmm.	11:03
Irma Boone	At the age of 13?	11:03
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm.	11:06
Irma Boone	At the age of 13 I still played with the grass doll.	11:07
Lola Williams	Oh, I'd play every chance I got, which wasn't very often. But, I still had to do other responsibilities. Like, we had a teenage club, and we had a chance to stand at Frank Lincoln Center on weekends, I could never spend a weekend. If we were going overnight, I mean, go, six o'clock in the afternoon and come back that night, I could go. But, I couldn't spend the whole weekend, because I had to cook, clean up, do all the things that an adult would have to do.	11:10
Chris Stewart	Did you resent it?	11:41
Lola Williams	At that time, I didn't. As I got older, I did. And now that I'm older, I think I understand.	11:43
Chris Stewart	Mm-hmm.	11:50
Irma Boone	Mm, can't remember my problems.	11:52
Chris Stewart	What about you ladies? When did you became, or people started treating you—	11:54
Irma Boone	After I got married, at the age of 17. Because, like I said, I was always a spoiled brat. I didn't have— I would have to cook some time. My sister did most of the cooking, most of the washing. All that stuff, I didn't know how to do until I got married. And I wish to God I had never got married.	12:01
Chris Stewart	Why?	12:20
Irma Boone	Because my husband, he stayed in his road all the time, left me home with the children, and I had everything to do. Until one night he slapped me, and my baby was three weeks old, and he run out the door, and I picked up the automatic rifle and I started shooting. And that last bullet went by his ear, he turned around and came back home then.	12:21
Irma Boone	I was intent to kill that man that night, but thanks to the Lord, I didn't kill him. But after that, everything was all right with me.	12:46
Irma Boone	There's two things I did wrong, was, shooting at him, and fixing that woman's sandwich.	12:53
Chris Stewart	They don't sound like wrong things?	13:02
Irma Boone	That was a wrong one, that sandwich was.	13:05
Lola Williams	When I was growing up, during the summer months, I had to pack stuff in the freezer. When I wake up in the morning, it was fixing breakfast, and then, when I hit the back door, there was all this corn, laying around the tree, that I had to shuck and silt and wash and cook and pack. And then there were butter beans.	13:07
Lola Williams	My daddy would always pick the vegetables, but it was mine after that.	13:29
Irma Boone	Oh, yeah?	13:34
Lola Williams	And I spent all summer growing up, packing them in the freezer. And when we go back to school in the fall, the first thing the teacher want you to do is, write about your experiences in the summer. And all I could write about was, I packed corn, I packed butter beans, because that was what I did. I didn't go visit my wonderful uncle in New York, something like that.	13:37
Chris Stewart	Right.	14:03
Lola Williams	But, I did not resent it, because it was something I had to do, so I just did it, without even thinking about it. Then I got older, and I said, [indistinct 00:14:14] that ain't fair at all. But I'm glad I did have to do it, because now I'm not a lazy spoiled brat. I will work, [indistinct 00:14:28]. I think it was good for me. It didn't have to be as much as it was, but I learned from the experiences.	14:03
Chris Stewart	What about you, Ms. Valentine, when do you think?	14:37
Grace Valentine	I said, at age 15, when I quit school. I thought I was [indistinct 00:14:45].	14:40
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:14:45] school?	14:45
Grace Valentine	Oh, well. I still worked on a farm, I did the same things. But, what can I say? It was at the point that mom and daddy couldn't tell me nothing, because I feel like this, parents or either older people, should set an example for children to follow, good examples. And, when you get to the point that you got to be the referee from an age of nine or ten, by the time you get 15, you feel like you grown.	14:47
Grace Valentine	But they couldn't tell me nothing. They couldn't make me do anything. If they wanted to beat me, I just went in the house, and stay out of that. So, very seldom I got a beating.	15:15
Irma Boone	You know what, if that were my grandma, and you went in the house, you still got that beating because, everything come across her hand, will go in that house, and you sure will come out. That's what she did.	15:24
Grace Valentine	That much is true. Actually, I can't stand a sassy grown child today. Nobody's half raised child, I can't stand them, because, not the fault that I was such a bad kid, but, it brings on a lot of problems.	15:36
Grace Valentine	If you can't tell a young teenager what to do, it's bad that nobody want to listen, because of the way that they was brought up. So, now, we have a lot of problems with teenagers today, for he same reasons that I went through. The parents not at home, the parents are not together, there's nobody to tell you right from wrong. And you got to pick up your own happiness. So, it makes it bad on the kids.	15:49
Grace Valentine	But, I was a fortunate one. I didn't get into anything bad. Just one of the fortunate ones.	16:16
Chris Stewart	What'd you do for fun in high school? When you were high school age, not necessarily in high school, but when you were a teenager, what did you do?	16:23
Grace Valentine	Dances.	16:31
Irma Boone	Dances.	16:31
Grace Valentine	Dances.	16:31
Irma Boone	Ball game.	16:31
Grace Valentine	At the school. We had dances at school. Daddy would go to a lot of ball games. We'd go to ball games.	16:39
Irma Boone	And we had parties on Saturday night.	16:48
Grace Valentine	Yeah, cover—	16:49
Irma Boone	And have, yeah. And I remember, way back, we had parties at the [indistinct 00:16:55], you remember one at the [indistinct 00:16:56]?	16:50
Grace Valentine	Yeah. Yeah.	16:55
Irma Boone	No lights, but they would cook the food under there. Had lanterns hanging up. And they would have parties like that.	16:57
Chris Stewart	That must've been fun.	17:01
Irma Boone	It was fun.	17:01
Grace Valentine	It was.	17:04
Irma Boone	It was really fun.	17:06
Grace Valentine	And you couldn't go in the dark. That was definitely a no-no.	17:07
Irma Boone	No, you can go no further around that boom, that light up there. Under that shelter where the [indistinct 00:17:17] hanging at, and you had to sit there, and once your [indistinct 00:17:19] cook.	17:11
Lola Williams	Another thing I remember I was growing up, is that, we always had our meals together, as a family. We didn't eat until the last person was in.	17:22
Grace Valentine	We did the same thing.	17:33
Lola Williams	And we would take turns saying the grace for the meal.	17:33
Grace Valentine	Bible verses.	17:33
Lola Williams	And each meal [indistinct 00:17:42]. I think that was one of the good things about living on the farm. But, I hope to God I never have to live on another farm.	17:38
Grace Valentine	I would love to.	17:46
Lola Williams	But, it was the factory—	17:47
Grace Valentine	I know you will say Amen, I would love to.	17:48
Lola Williams	— the factory work—	17:50
Grace Valentine	I would love to.	17:51
Lola Williams	— has split up families like that.	17:54
Chris Stewart	Factory work?	17:55
Lola Williams	Yeah, I think that had split families apart, because they subject the worker, shifts off second—	17:56
Grace Valentine	Husband and wife.	18:01
Lola Williams	— [indistinct 00:18:02] third shift, different shift. They'll get some [indistinct 00:18:07] but don't get them together, don't pray together, don't sleep together, do nothing together.	18:02
Grace Valentine	That's why that [indistinct 00:18:14] sleep with somebody else. I mean, serious. Because, the husband working nights, the wife working days, and they, a husband and wife need special time together. They need a bit, bam and thank you ma'am in one. We all grown. A husband and wife need quality together.	18:12
Grace Valentine	If [indistinct 00:18:37] is working in the day time, they would have the nights together. But see, if they can't get their special attention at home, they going to look other places, both of them. Most of the time, both of them. That's the only thing that, that factory jobs has did is broken up homes. Lots of homes. Lots of marriages. Not the job, the people.	18:36
Chris Stewart	Right. You mentioned, praying together, and, and [indistinct 00:19:04] Bible verses, were you all baptized?	18:57
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm.	19:05
Lola Williams	Yes, I was.	19:12
Irma Boone	I was.	19:20
Chris Stewart	Do you remember your baptism?	19:20
Lola Williams	Yes, I do.	19:20
Irma Boone	Me too.	19:20
Chris Stewart	Could you tell us the story? Tell us about your [indistinct 00:19:21] baptism?	19:20
Lola Williams	I was late.	19:20
Grace Valentine	As usual.	19:20
Irma Boone	I was on the time.	19:20
Chris Stewart	You were late for your baptism.	19:22
Irma Boone	I was on time. We had to wade way out in Chowan River, the same wade or—	19:25
Chris Stewart	Chowan River?	19:29
Irma Boone	Mm-hmm.	19:29
Grace Valentine	That's at that fishery?	19:32
Irma Boone	Uh-huh, that was even [indistinct 00:19:34].	19:32
Grace Valentine	Oh, you were— Okay. Okay. That was side.	19:34
Irma Boone	[indistinct 00:19:36] wade in the water with children, where they got [indistinct 00:19:53]. I was personally go down, and stood back and laughed at the rest of them. It was real fun.	19:36
Chris Stewart	How old were you?	19:52
Irma Boone	11.	19:52
Chris Stewart	Did the whole congregation come down?	19:52
Irma Boone	They sit on the shore. They stood out on the shore, and we had wade out in the water, and [indistinct 00:20:02].	19:53
Chris Stewart	What'd you wear?	20:01
Irma Boone	Pant shorts, and I had a plaid shirt, and a towel around here. I remember calling it towels. When I came out in the water, I almost lost my breath. I was scared. I was [indistinct 00:20:20].	20:04
Chris Stewart	I want to go around and find out what everybody's was like, and then I have another question for you about that.	20:23
Grace Valentine	Well, I was first baptized at the age of 11. And that was at the fishery, at the river. The fishery we all was talking about. And I was baptized again when I was 37, and to [indistinct 00:20:40] then.	20:28
Grace Valentine	And, at that baptism, I just felt so free that I just wanted to relax and lay back. But the first one, I just knew I got baptized, but the second time, it was different. A inner peace had came upon me. And I just wanted, just to lay there in the water, just relax, but, of course, they wouldn't let, they [indistinct 00:21:07].	20:39
Grace Valentine	Then, when we got dried off, and got dressed and went in the church. I showered for an hour and a half.	21:07
Chris Stewart	What do you mean when you say you felt so free. This is in the [indistinct 00:21:20] church [indistinct 00:21:22]?	21:14
Grace Valentine	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	21:19
Chris Stewart	What do you mean? What—	21:19
Grace Valentine	Oh, how can I explain it? There was a difference in the baptism. Maybe, it might have been the concept of age, or maybe it was because the true learning of the Word that I had received before the baptism. It was just a new experience. Just like a new beginning for me. And it still is that way. So, it was just wonderful. This was an experience that you can't explain, but you know it's there. Whatever it is, it's there. The Spirit is there, and it was just wonderful. It was wonderful.	21:25
Chris Stewart	Did the whole church come—	22:04
Grace Valentine	Everybody was at the last baptism, because of the organization being so big, all the churches came together for a baptism that day. We had about, maybe 200 candidates, from all over, Washington D.C. all over everywhere. And it was, to me, it just was a enjoyable experience. Still is.	22:04
Chris Stewart	Were your children, did you have children—	22:25
Grace Valentine	Yes.	22:26
Chris Stewart	— were your children there?	22:26
Grace Valentine	They were there, some were being baptized along with me.	22:31
Chris Stewart	Wow.	22:34
Grace Valentine	So, we had a running cat, definitely came out the water. We thought, the spirit was upon— it was just beautiful. It was a beautiful experience.	22:36
Chris Stewart	Ms. [indistinct 00:22:52]? You were late.	22:52
Lola Williams	I was 10. But it wasn't my fault. I was only 10 years old. I really don't know why I was late, but, come in, and get a [indistinct 00:23:07] on the church grounds when I got there, and he showed me a shortcut through the woods. And I was baptized right out of [indistinct 00:23:16].	22:58
Chris Stewart	When we were driving by, [indistinct 00:23:18] was saying, "That's where I was baptized.".	23:13
Lola Williams	Yeah, that's where I was baptized. But, I don't think I really understood what was happening to me, at that time. I don't think I need to be baptized again, because I've already been baptized, and that I understand what I did when I was 10. But at 10, I didn't know what I was doing. I went because my daddy said it was time for me to go. But, during the time, I was in the church almost every Sunday. I went to Sunday School every Sunday, and I was in the regular service almost every Sunday [indistinct 00:23:58].	23:23
Chris Stewart	What do you, since now, understand about a baptism? About what that meant?	23:58
Lola Williams	Well— I guess, it's like making a promise. He's not taking it from us, but it's like making a promise that you're going to live right, you're going to do right to the best of your knowledge. Not that you're going to do everything perfect, because nobody's perfect. To me, that's the [indistinct 00:24:34].	24:13
Irma Boone	For me, I don't take bread or wine. I don't. Being honest, I don't take bread and wine.	24:34
Chris Stewart	Why?	24:42
Irma Boone	Because I'm not living up to what you're supposed to. And so, [indistinct 00:24:50] I'm doing this, and doing that. I know I'm not doing it. So, I just don't take bread and wine. I don't know when I go to a church, but it's wine or grape juice, because no alcohol, like wine, beers. A little bit of wine, anything with alcohol [indistinct 00:25:09]. So, that's another reason why I don't take it.	24:45
Chris Stewart	What would you say [indistinct 00:25:17]?	25:15
Irma Boone	Mm, change my whole lifestyle living.	25:22
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:25:27].	25:23
Grace Valentine	She's right. She's right.	25:28
Chris Stewart	Can you explain it to me [indistinct 00:25:33]?	25:29
Irma Boone	Somebody thinks that I'd be lying, supposed to be doing. So, that's one reason. And before, when you take that bread and wine, you supposed to be living right and everything, and I know a lot of things I do ain't right. That's why I don't take.	25:39
Irma Boone	My sisters get at me all the time, "You should take." I said, "No, I don't want to take, and I know I'm not living the life I'm supposed to live." So, I don't take.	25:57
Chris Stewart	You switched churches, do you still belong to the main church that you did when you were younger?	26:12
Lola Williams	Well, they probably kicked me out by now. I don't go to church now.	26:19
Chris Stewart	How come?	26:20
Lola Williams	Because I don't like what go on inside of the church. It's not what I would agree with. And I know people tell me, "You have to go to heaven for yourself." But if I have to go to most of these churches now, I know I won't go to heaven. I'm hell bound. Because, I go in, feeling okay. When I come out, not feeling okay, because I don't like what I see going on in the church.	26:23
Chris Stewart	What do you see?	26:46
Lola Williams	People snickering and grinning at other people. I'm talking about somebody else have on. If it's not new or, "They wore that last Sunday." I don't think people should do that. So, I might get mad and blow up. I just, I don't go.	26:50
Irma Boone	Well, the church that I go to, does not feel like I was ready to go to church. Now, with this dress here, I got on that, wouldn't be no problem. We don't look at what you wear to church.	27:11
Lola Williams	That's the way I think it should be.	27:21
Irma Boone	We don't look at— I don't ever wear a hat to church. We don't look at what you wear. We just go— this dress, I go home, and feel like I want to go to church tonight with this dress on, I just wear it.	27:22
Lola Williams	I also stopped going because, the preacher would get up and talk, his sermon would be about who did what Saturday night. And that's not why I went to church. I could go on the corner and hear that. I want to hear something about the Word of the Lord, and he didn't preach it, and I didn't understand anything he said, pertaining to the Bible—	27:34
Irma Boone	Right.	27:54
Lola Williams	— except, "Oh [indistinct 00:27:59]." That was plain and clear.	27:58
Irma Boone	Although —	28:01
Lola Williams	Other than that— I mean, it's the truth. I've [indistinct 00:28:07] sermon off of who did what Saturday night, that went on, and I don't want to hear that. Jane Doe did something there [indistinct 00:28:12] Jane Doe didn't. And it was Dicken's business, digging at the business. They felt that to go to Jane Doe, you talk to Jane Doe. You want my business, don't spread Jane Doe's business all over.	28:01
Chris Stewart	You've obvious had a different experience with the church, right?	28:25
Grace Valentine	Okay, let me see. Okay, like I said, when I got baptized the second time, I made a promise to God, that I would keep the words to the best of my knowledge and abilities. And, so far, regardless of what anybody else say, I'm trying to live up to that. So, that [indistinct 00:28:55] have any friends.	28:39
Grace Valentine	I'm not talking about being saved, or the people that's out there in the streets, I have been set aside in the way I speak it, because, I stopped my drinking, I stopped doing what I used to do, and it has been a complete change in my life. So, therefore, I don't have any friends. And, if I have to change back to who and what I was in order to have friends, I stay like I am. So, I'm satisfied with myself, what anybody feels like, it doesn't bother me. We all have to live with ourselves.	28:58
Grace Valentine	But listening to Lo, it's sad when you go to church, and the preacher's not going to preach the Word, because that's his job. What Tom, Dick and Harry is doing is their business. So, therefore, the preachers are really not doing what they supposed to do.	29:34
Chris Stewart	Talking to the Grants yesterday, they all said the same thing, about the preachers and the clerics. In this area, they were very specific about it in [indistinct 00:30:02] area. And that it's more than just talking about [indistinct 00:30:11], that there might even be some corruption.	29:52
Grace Valentine	It is money. I know ministers have their hand in everybody's pocket. And when the people that the churches— okay, the people that are in the church, that didn't bring their money, and put it on the table, but when they get in trouble, and have a problem financially, they don't get no help. And I don't think that's fair. Even though, in some of the churches that I go to, it's the small churches, you have that problem because there's no funds to be set aside. But, in the mother church in [indistinct 00:30:46], it's a big difference. The mother church that have the money, if you get in a tight, you need a water bill, a light bill, somebody's sick and you're not working. They have a committee for that.	30:16
Irma Boone	We had it in our church.	31:00
Grace Valentine	A lot of people has that in their church.	31:04
Irma Boone	And if somebody in my church get sick, and then, we have offering, take an offering for them. Whatever they take up that Sunday, in the offering, for that person, for $100 or whatever it is, they get that. But, one church found out, I don't care how many time that person get sick, they go to the hospital, they give them $20.	31:07
Irma Boone	But, in my church, the church that I go to, you sick, and that Sunday we have service, we only have service once a month at my church, and we set pane out there for offering, if they raise $100, they get it.	31:22
Irma Boone	Well, that's the way my church work. I don't know about the other church down there, they just give the family members $20. One church got $15. But my church, whatever you take up in that pane, that's what you get.	31:38
Grace Valentine	But I want to ask you a question, all you all, since we talking. Is there anything that can be done about the corruption among the ministers? The ministers.	31:50
Irma Boone	I don't know.	32:02
Lola Williams	Shoot them.	32:02
Irma Boone	Shoot them, [indistinct 00:32:06].	32:02
Grace Valentine	You don't kill them. Don't kill them.	32:08
Chris Stewart	Well, she has the shotgun.	32:08
Grace Valentine	No. She done shot all her bullets up.	32:11
Irma Boone	I don't know.	32:14
Grace Valentine	Really?	32:15
Irma Boone	Mm.	32:15
Grace Valentine	There should be something that could be done.	32:15
Irma Boone	I don't want to go shoot nobody, because my girls.	32:15
Grace Valentine	No, you don't shoot them. No.	32:21
Lola Williams	There's not too much you can do, because they have too many supporters. They really don't need [indistinct 00:32:27]. I think that if you go to church, you go to heaven. What they doing the entire time in church. They can do whatever they want to do as long as they go to church on Sundays, they think they're going to heaven.	32:23
Grace Valentine	But they need to read their own Bibles, and the Bible going to tell you different than that.	32:40
Lola Williams	Well, I know that.	32:46
Grace Valentine	Because the minister is supposed to preach what's in the Bible.	32:47
Lola Williams	But that's just it. They don't read the Bible, the preacher probably don't read the Bible, so he can't preach the Bible, so they don't know what's in the Bible. And I don't trust them to tell me what's in it.	32:51
Grace Valentine	You're not supposed to. You are supposed to read it for yourself.	33:02
Lola Williams	Read it myself.	33:04
Grace Valentine	You're supposed to read it for yourself.	33:04
Chris Stewart	I'd like to ask you all a question. First of all, are all of you, or have any of you been married?	33:10
Irma Boone	Yes.	33:19
Chris Stewart	Where did you meet your respective husbands?	33:22
Grace Valentine	Where did I meet my husband?	33:23
Chris Stewart	You don't have to talk about nothing if you don't want to, but I thought I'd—	33:24
Grace Valentine	At school.	33:25
Chris Stewart	— [indistinct 00:33:25] the next step.	33:25
Grace Valentine	At school. My best girlfriend's boyfriend. And I wish I had never keep him. Yeah, that's the way it was, it didn't work. Three babies later. [indistinct 00:33:45].	33:29
Irma Boone	I met mine at a party, and I wish I had left him at the party.	33:45
Lola Williams	I met mine at the service station near the [indistinct 00:33:55] where he was working, and we were married a short time, till he was killed. So, I'm a widow.	33:55
Chris Stewart	He was killed?	33:56
Lola Williams	Mm-hmm.	33:56
Chris Stewart	How was he killed?	33:56
Lola Williams	My first cousin shot him in the heart. It was alcohol related.	34:04
Irma Boone	Oh.	34:09
Irma Boone	Mine is dead. He walked out on me when my baby was three, not even, two weeks from being three years old. And, he died in '69, in Boston with some woman. I don't know who she was.	34:13
Chris Stewart	How long were you together?	34:19
Irma Boone	Seven years.	34:19
Chris Stewart	And [indistinct 00:34:19] for you, when he died [indistinct 00:34:19] seven years, or were you separated before he died?	34:19
Irma Boone	We were separated before he died.	34:19
Chris Stewart	Okay. What year did you separate?	34:19
Irma Boone	'63.	34:19
Chris Stewart	How about you?	34:29
Irma Boone	[indistinct 00:34:30] '60.	34:29
Chris Stewart	'60?	34:29
Irma Boone	Mm-hmm.	34:29
Chris Stewart	Okay.	34:54
Grace Valentine	Mm, with me, okay. We was married in '57, three babies later, which was four years, that was '61.	34:55
Chris Stewart	That was wham, bam, ma'am.	35:05
Grace Valentine	It was. Baby making machine, that was it. He left before the third daughter was born, and I got my divorce 21 years later.	35:08
Chris Stewart	Wow. Why did —	35:21
Grace Valentine	When I— I guess I wouldn't have got it, but I bought a home, and the lawyer told me it would be to my best advantage, to divorce him, either he could fall back in there and make me sell that house, and get half of the proceedings, and the Lord knows that, that half, I'll put a piece of dynamite up in.	35:22
Grace Valentine	So, I got my divorce 21 years later. My baby —	35:41
Chris Stewart	Will any of you ever marry again?	35:46
Grace Valentine	No. I took —	35:49
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:35:50] single women.	35:50
Grace Valentine	— I took on a lover and had five babies by him. That's when the Lord stepped in. I wished He'd stepped in 15 years earlier, but I don't regret my children. Because I tried to marry, it didn't work, I said, well, I get one [indistinct 00:36:05], maybe that'll work. That didn't work either. So, I resign from all forms of anything, with men. And women too, don't get me wrong. I'm not a lesbian.	35:52
Chris Stewart	I'm not getting you wrong.	36:18
Grace Valentine	No. So, I would get this straight. No form or friendship with a man. I haven't met one that really, that I feel like I could deal with him. Because there is so many kind of diseases out there, and so much trouble. And I don't need no more trouble.	36:20
Irma Boone	Well, I could've been married again, but I [indistinct 00:36:40] say, no way. No way. Like [indistinct 00:36:40] saying, no way, Jose.	36:39
Grace Valentine	Really?	36:39
Irma Boone	I said, no way, Jose. [indistinct 00:36:44].	36:44
Irma Boone	I'd see men once in a while now, but [indistinct 00:36:47] he going to come in, tell me, "Get up and fix us some breakfast. You stay home, you can't go." And I'll be saying, "You watch me smoke where I go.". I can't stand that.	36:44
Grace Valentine	I was approached for marriage by a bishop. He buried his wife on Wednesday, and he came to my house, and approached me, on Thursday.	36:57
Irma Boone	I want to get married that quick?	37:06
Grace Valentine	I had been knowing him over the years that the wife was sick, and I never said or did anything to lead him on. But, he told me that the Lord told him, He had a wife waiting for him when she passed. I said, "Well, good luck. Let me know when you find her.".	37:11
Chris Stewart	Yes.	37:25
Grace Valentine	I know, I have [indistinct 00:37:33].	37:31
Irma Boone	Married life just aint for me.	37:33
Grace Valentine	I would like it.	37:33
Irma Boone	I just don't like—	37:33
Chris Stewart	Did you just say you liked it?	37:36
Grace Valentine	Uh-huh. If I can find me a companion, that we could agree, and get along, yes.	37:39
Chris Stewart	What would it require to agree and get along?	37:41
Grace Valentine	I would have to have a saved husband. One day, he's really saved, and not tell me he's saved. It would have to be a process over the years, that I would see for myself that he is really like he say he is, and the word of mouth wouldn't do it with me. So, I just may, will lose him, because, if I see where he was not, he could keep on trucking.	37:46
Chris Stewart	Were you all working during the time you were married?	38:16
Lola Williams	I was working on a farm.	38:18
Chris Stewart	You were—	38:18
Grace Valentine	I didn't, not when I was married. No. But, when I took on my lover, I started to work, years later.	38:20
Chris Stewart	What kind of work did you start off with?	38:29
Grace Valentine	On the farm?	38:30
Chris Stewart	On the farm?	38:31
Grace Valentine	Then Purdue, then by myself.	38:32
Chris Stewart	I'd like to talk about Purdue—	38:36
Grace Valentine	Okay.	38:41
Chris Stewart	— if you don't mind?	38:41
Grace Valentine	Ask whatever you want.	38:41
Chris Stewart	Well, I want to know [indistinct 00:38:47]. I would like to know when you all started.	38:42
Grace Valentine	I started in, what, I was 37. That was '77, 1976. I started June of '76.	38:58
Irma Boone	First shift?	39:00
Grace Valentine	Mm-mm, second shift. Night shift.	39:01
Irma Boone	Not that first year.	39:05
Grace Valentine	The first year. Yeah. Uh-uh. The day shift had been working about six months, and they started a second shift about six months later.	39:09
Chris Stewart	How much did you farm before that?	39:13
Grace Valentine	Oh, all my life. I was on the farm all my life. Oh, when I was married, I didn't work on the farm because of the babies. And then, like I say, when I met my last kids' father, we farmed. Hogs, cows, chickens, you name it, we had it. When we separated, I worked a year or two before we separated, and then I continue on to work and Purdue.	39:16
Chris Stewart	When did you start at Purdue?	39:44
Irma Boone	'76, March.	39:44
Chris Stewart	So, you both started about the same time?	39:44
Grace Valentine	She was March, I started June.	39:55
Irma Boone	June, right?	39:57
Grace Valentine	[indistinct 00:39:57] first day. Before—	39:57
Irma Boone	[indistinct 00:40:01] Central Soya, chicken [indistinct 00:40:02].	40:00
Chris Stewart	Central Soya?	40:01
Irma Boone	Mm-hmm.	40:01
Chris Stewart	For how long?	40:01
Irma Boone	About three years.	40:01
Chris Stewart	Can you describe to me the work that you did?	40:01
Irma Boone	What, around chicken packer?	40:02
Chris Stewart	You can start there, and then go on to—	40:09
Irma Boone	I was a wrapper. I was a wrapper. You wrap the neck, liver and gizzards. I'm starting at [indistinct 00:40:27], [indistinct 00:40:27] we had to wrap and stuff. [indistinct 00:40:32] pick up you paper, and then you would pick out your neck, your liver, your heart. And sometimes you pick a whole handful of [indistinct 00:40:41] and you wrap it like this. Then the bird come along on the line, then you stuff that. That was at [indistinct 00:40:49].	40:19
Irma Boone	And at Purdue, we wrapped. Just wrap them, and put them in a pan, and when the pan get full, you put it on the table and a man come along and take them off and ice them down.	40:48
Irma Boone	I wrapped, then I— organ book out, that was packing the liver. Packed gizzards. That was in the same department. I worked in one department.	41:01
Chris Stewart	The whole time you were there?	41:18
Irma Boone	Mm-hmm.	41:20
Chris Stewart	What about you, Ms. Valentine?	41:20
Grace Valentine	Okay. When I first started, my job was working behind a machine. And, the machine was called a oil sac cutter. When you clean the bird, it's a little sac under his tail, and all the sacks that the machine missed, I had to cut it off with a knife. And the machine worked pretty good, I didn't do that much.	41:21
Grace Valentine	So, from that, from the oil sac machine, when they put it in, totally electric, put the machine and get every oil sac cut out, they made me a stabber. Then, we had to open the birds with the hand, catch the bird tail to make a little cut around their doody hole for the people to stick their hands in, to open it up with the scissors.	41:43
Chris Stewart	Oh, one more time.	42:05
Grace Valentine	Okay.	42:07
Chris Stewart	Slower.	42:07
Grace Valentine	When you dress a chicken.	42:10
Chris Stewart	Sorry. I'm sorry.	42:11
Grace Valentine	We had to cut a little hole around the doody hole of the bird, like that.	42:15
Chris Stewart	Right.	42:19
Grace Valentine	So, that was—	42:19
Chris Stewart	Is the bird dead already?	42:20
Grace Valentine	The bird's dead, yes. He's plenty dead.	42:20
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:20
Grace Valentine	So, the person next to me will stick their finger in the tail hole of the bird, and open it up with a scissor. So, I did that for a few years. And then, I went to open the bird behind the machine again, with the scissors. That's what I was doing when I came out with my foot. I lost over half of my foot by wearing boots at Purdue. So, I have a foot and a piece.	42:24
Grace Valentine	Well, see, we had to wear gumboots, them knee high boots, like men wear, in the muddy water. And I got away with it for a lot of years because I wouldn't wear them. So, then they made a new rule, if you fall down, and your streak boots are the little rubber boots that I was wearing, Purdue would not—	42:52
Irma Boone	Pay.	43:11
Grace Valentine	— pay the bill.	43:11
Grace Valentine	I was forced to wear the boots, so I wore the boots, couple of years or more.	43:12
Chris Stewart	What was it about the boots that was—	43:16
Grace Valentine	Women should not wear gumboots with steel toes in them.	43:18
Irma Boone	Steel toes.	43:20
Grace Valentine	And you had to carry those boots, and stand in those boots all day. And women's feet are not made for that. So, the last year that I worked, I had a blister that come on my toe about March or April. And I didn't pay any mind. And I was, the doctor had diagnosed me as a diabetic, but I was not on medication, because it wasn't that serious.	43:21
Grace Valentine	So, in April I had a blister that come on my toe. I had bought a new pair of boots. And, about two weeks later, it started giving me trouble, but it never swole up, it never hurt or anything, but I knew the blister was there, because I had took the blister off, and it had left a little hole in my toe, where the whole thing came out.	43:47
Grace Valentine	So, two weeks later, it flamed up on me, but I didn't tell anybody. I told my supervisor, and the foreman, I had to go to the nurse. So, I worked on Monday, that Tuesday I couldn't put my foot back in my boot because it had swollen. So, I stayed home all day, I kept calling in on the job, telling them I couldn't come in because the foot was sore. And she told me, "Well take it to the doctor." But, at the time, I said, "Well, maybe if I soak it, it'll get better.".	44:06
Grace Valentine	So, my son came home from college, and he saw it. And he said, "Get up, and let's go to the do-". He carried me to the doctor, they sent me right off to the hospital. And I talked to the surgeon on Friday, he was going to take my little toe off on Monday. From Friday until Monday, gangrene set it, and I had signed a piece of paper to do whatever he had to do, because he said, "Well, the little toe got to go, we might straight to the bone on the next toe, and that would be it.".	44:36
Grace Valentine	But, when he got in there, it had turned into gangrene. So, he cut all the toes off, he went back and cut another portion off, then he went back and cut another portion off, put me in the operating room. And then he took a suction gun, that's a little thing you squeeze, it's a long thing, like a straw.	45:07
Chris Stewart	Okay.	45:26
Grace Valentine	So, he stuck that all the way back to my heel, he could see the puss pockets, he draw to get the puss out of this gangrene, and that's what he did.	45:28
Grace Valentine	And when he told me, he said, "Ms. Valentine," he said, this is the operating attendant, said, "Could you help me get back from the operating table to the roller bed?" And that's when I saw my foot was gone. My first reaction was to holler and scream, but I said, no, you're too intelligent for that. And I wish I had.	45:36
Grace Valentine	So, three months later, I broke down. Then they sent me to the mental health place. And I went there, maybe a year.	45:54
Grace Valentine	So, that's that.	46:07
Chris Stewart	Because you lost your foot?	46:10
Grace Valentine	Well, see, I knew the foot was gone, I could see it was gone, but I hadn't accepted it. Because the [indistinct 00:46:23] the registered nurse, and she was telling my children, "Watch your mama, because she's talking it too calm. And either, she should be hollering and screaming all over everywhere.".	46:16
Grace Valentine	But, I went to the doctor one day, and I broke down in the doctor's office. He called the mental health place, and set me appointment up the same week. And I started going, and talking to the therapist there, until I got where I could accept it. So—	46:33

Chris Stewart	— Working in a chicken processing plant. I mean, talking about your supervisors and you don't have to name names, but I'm just talking about the way in which people treated you.	0:01
Gracie Valentine	At first, wonderful. I loved to go to work for the first five or six years. It was beautiful. Then when the time came that the plant was making money, and I mean big money, the people pushed harder and harder for you to do more and more work to make more and more money. Then they got, Lord, forgive me, bitchy. Therefore, you could not please them with what you did, regardless of how hard or how fast you worked.	0:13
Gracie Valentine	It was a problem, because me and the foreman got into it all the time, one of them, because I told him my mama and my daddy both was dead, and he was not going to tell me how fast to work. I was going to give him a good day's work and that was going to be it. That's what I did.	0:45
Chris Stewart	How did you decide what a good day's work was? How did you decide that?	1:01
Gracie Valentine	Working at my own speed, not anybody pressuring me, "You can do this faster, do it faster." No, I did not do it. Even when I left, I was working at my own speed, which I think was fairly good.	1:05
Chris Stewart	How about you ma'am?	1:21
Erma Cofield Boone	In the department I worked in, we had to route 12 per minute. That's what he wanted, 12 per minute. One foreman that I had, if you didn't do— We're supposed do 37 pens in the morning, if you didn't do 37 pens that morning, when you go back for lunch, your name would be on the board of how many pens you did, and how many that was a minute.	1:22
Erma Cofield Boone	Then after that I had another supervisor, another foreman, and he told me if I didn't do no more than I was doing, he was going to send me home for good. But still, after that, I had two bad hands and so he put me back on the wrapping table and I couldn't do no more but three wraps a minute. He told me if I couldn't do no more than that, he was going to send me home the next day, so the next day I didn't go in at all.	1:47
Erma Cofield Boone	I went back to the doctor and the doctor sent a note saying that if I continued on wrapping, I would lose use in both hands. When I went in that morning, I gave the note to the nurse and they didn't let me go back and work right then. They sent for my foreman, and he come in and she told him not to put me on the wrapping table, and if he couldn't find nothing else for me to do, then to take me home. That day, he found something for me to do.	2:18
Erma Cofield Boone	And then I had another foreman that was getting on their last, that day I went back to the doctor. I was in and out about a year or two years going, about two years, I was in and out from the doctor, in and out. This last time I went back, when I went back to the doctor they said that I had no repetitive motion, no knives, no scissors, nothing over two pounds.	2:47
Erma Cofield Boone	I was up there that morning ready to go to work with my apron and plastered around me, and here comes the supervisor and foreman, "You can't, uh—huh, no work here for you to do. You come and go in the office. You can go home." I didn't have nowhere to go home because we rode in a van, and so I stayed in the office all day that day, sitting around there sleeping and eating and listening to people gossip.	3:15
Erma Cofield Boone	They told me not to come back. They [indistinct 00:03:41]. I got workers' comp for about August to October. In October, they cut my check off the third week in October. I didn't get no more workers' comp, and I put in for disability. It took me two years to get disability, because when I first got it, they were giving me $70 a month because Perdue was saying that they was paying me $144 and four cents a week for workers' compensation, which I won't get.	3:38
Erma Cofield Boone	During that time, I lost my— Really, I was coming to a nervous breakdown, and one time, all my hair fell out and I just sat around being worried to death, crying and doing.	4:16
Erma Cofield Boone	Then one day I just said, "Well, I got to get off of this, get myself together," and I started going to the center, listening to other people's problem and I come to find out mine were nothing but just a minor thing with what some of the people was going through then. It was by going there and listening to other people problems, that got me going in a little bit.	4:26
Erma Cofield Boone	Then when I first got my first check, I was the happiest woman in the world. I could go to the store and buy some things that I wanted. I was just happy. Then for the last, going on two years now, last year I got my workers' comp— I got my disability but I'm still waiting on workers' compensation. I still ain't got nothing there, but I'm happy now though. I get that little check the third of the month, and go to town and buy myself a dress.	4:56
Chris Stewart	What were your wages during the time that you were working? How did they change, if they did?	5:27
Erma Cofield Boone	My wage was about $5.25 per hour. I think that what it was, $5.25. That's what I was earning.	5:36
Gracie Valentine	I was a little bit more than that because my net would be over $200 a week, by the time they take out the insurance and everything like that, I would bring it home about $185, $190 a week.	5:44
Chris Stewart	Did you have insurance? Did the company provide insurance?	5:58
Gracie Valentine	Yes.	6:03
Erma Cofield Boone	I'm still on insurance at the plant. They might've been out here, next month, it'll be three years. I'm still on the plant insurance that I have been. I wish they would go ahead and terminate me but they won't.	6:04
Chris Stewart	Why?	6:16
Erma Cofield Boone	I guess because I'm one of seven workers' representatives for the center.	6:17
Chris Stewart	You can't have a workers' representative and have insurance?	6:20
Erma Cofield Boone	I'm still on the insurance.	6:29
Gracie Valentine	You are on their insurance?	6:31
Erma Cofield Boone	Yes, I am.	6:31
Gracie Valentine	Well, they wrote me a letter stating they were still paying my life insurance premium.	6:36
Erma Cofield Boone	I know I have the insurance because when I go to the doctor, they pay some of my doctor's bills.	6:48
Gracie Valentine	But see, they paid mine for two years after the operation, and then that was it.	6:51
Erma Cofield Boone	But see, my name, I'm still on payroll.	7:01
Gracie Valentine	This is what I don't understand.	7:03
Erma Cofield Boone	I'm still on payroll because my timecard is still there, because everyday my sister comes home, I say, "Patty, my name's still out there?"	7:05
Gracie Valentine	But she's not getting any money. I don't understand that.	7:11
Chris Stewart	Is it predominantly women that work with the Perdue?	7:15
Erma Cofield Boone	Yes.	7:20
Chris Stewart	Why?	7:20
Erma Cofield Boone	When it first opened up, it was a lot of White women in there. That was the first day. The third day, there wasn't no White women in there because the work is too hard, I guess. Some are in the office, or Black men in the office. No Whites in the office, it's Black.	7:21
Chris Stewart	Why do you think it's mostly Black women?	7:39
Erma Cofield Boone	It's hard work.	7:41
Gracie Valentine	Black Women will work. Black women will do hard work. The dainty little White ladies don't want to get the chicken doo—doo all over them. This is a processing plant where you will get bloody, you will get chicken doo on you, and you have to work in order to keep the processing line going.	7:43
Gracie Valentine	I've heard some of them say that it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth the money and they didn't have to do it. Once they got all the Black women— Once they got all the White women off the line, they speed them up because when I left four years ago, the line that I was working on, the one that I told the foreman I wasn't going to open no 91 birds per minute, this is right here, and I had a problem. As long as the line was doing 55 and 60 birds a minute, it was a piece of cake. But when they speeded those lines up to 91 and 100 birds a minute, I told him I wasn't going to do it. I did what I could do.	8:06
Chris Stewart	What about other women? Did other women in the plant support you?	8:44
Gracie Valentine	No, no.	8:53
Erma Cofield Boone	No. If you say something about you going walk off that line, if you walk off, you walk up by yourself.	8:53
Gracie Valentine	They was afraid.	8:57
Erma Cofield Boone	They was saying, "Oh, I'll lose my house. I'll lose my car," and I'm saying, "When your hands get like mines, what can you do?" Sometimes I can't— In my kitchen floors and stuff like that, I can't even mop my floors and be happy. I might be mopping today, but tonight, I'll pay for it. Doing a good cleaning of my house, I can't do it. If I do it, I cry all night and half the next day, just work and cry, aspirin, Tylenol, aspirin, Advil, nothing can ease that pain. It just hurts until I get ready to stop.	8:59
Gracie Valentine	We have a lot of women at the plant that cannot read and write. So therefore, they feel like if they don't do that, they can't get anything else. That's the biggest problem in North Carolina is the literacy problem, the reading and the writing because they feel like, "Well, if you can't read and write, you got to go by what somebody else says."	9:35
Erma Cofield Boone	Right.	10:00
Gracie Valentine	So this is the problem, most of the problem at the plant, although we have some college students working in the plant.	10:01
Chris Stewart	What about when new employees came on, did employees that had been around for a while, help teach new ones? How would you teach them?	10:17
Gracie Valentine	Okay, with me, I taught most of the White men that became the foremen and the supervisors. They all would come to me. Oh, you said say don't name no names. They had to learn. They had to go through the plant and learn. Different people did it. But in my area, they came to me because make me no difference. The new hands that came in, some of the new hands that did come in, the women to work, they would bring them to me because I said, "Hey well, I had to learn." It was no problem staying there and showing them what you had to do.	10:30
Chris Stewart	Were there tricks that you would teach?	11:03
Gracie Valentine	No, there is no trick to it. Do the job.	11:06
Chris Stewart	I mean, just to get through the day in not need of whatever.	11:10
Gracie Valentine	With me, I love to meditate, so you leave me alone, let me do my job. I give you nice day's work, but just leave me alone. That was the way it was with me.	11:13
Erma Cofield Boone	So you had 30 days training, that's all, 30 days, and some of them didn't get that 30 days. You started there and in 30 days, you'd get the same pay that everybody else gets in 30 days.	11:26
Erma Cofield Boone	Over there in the department that I worked in, you come in, you show them by just showing them what they had to do, what they had to do, and that was it, whether they did it or not. Before 30 days is up, they had to do the same thing that we are, the speed, the same thing.	11:40
Chris Stewart	Do you think that the biggest problem is to speed up?	11:57
Gracie Valentine	Yes. But until the speed up and eviscerating, it wasn't that many complaints because you can do 50 birds better than you can do 90. When the speed up came, that meant if you didn't speed up with the line like they wanted me to do, they were in trouble. But I wasn't in no trouble, because I told the inspectors, "Hey, they put somebody up here with me, fine and good. We'll catch every other bird," and they did that for a while, until Shirley Tripp. When Tom came told me, I said it now, that he had found a woman that was going to hold that line, Lord forgive me again, I said, "Who is the damn fool?" When he put Shirley up there, I went to her and I told her, "Shirley, don't do it because it's going to mess your hands up. Don't do it." But Shirley could do it, Shirley could really hold the line, and she did hold that line, until her hands messed up. Her hands was messed up.	12:01
Chris Stewart	Is that carpal tunnel? Did she have carpal tunnel?	13:00
Gracie Valentine	In both of them.	13:02
Chris Stewart	It sounds like there's a lot of women who get carpal tunnel.	13:05
Gracie Valentine	There are plenty of women who have gotten hurt by Perdue in the big way because my sister's down there and her hands, they have operated on both of her hands. Here I go again, and she go home nights, her hands swell up, her arms swell up, and she won't leave.	13:07
Erma Cofield Boone	The two worst things I ever seen happen at Perdue, the guy got his hand caught in the neck skinner that skins the neck. His hand went down into the skinner, and his skin— It just cut all the meat off his hand. The next thing, the girl got picked up by her coat where she it right on around to the strainer, where they strain the fire. When it stopped, she was that close to the fire from going through the strainer.	13:27
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:14:05].	14:04
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah, but I didn't exactly see that.	14:04
Gracie Valentine	That was on the night shift.	14:07
Erma Cofield Boone	That was when her got her breast cut off. I didn't see that.	14:08
Gracie Valentine	I saw Ruby's finger, Ruby DuBois, the one I was telling you about, she came by me, we was getting ready to go back to break. She had went to wipe the masks off, and she got her fourth finger caught in the line, and it pulled her finger off to here. She came by me and her hand was full of blood and I asked her, "Ruby, what's wrong," and she said, "I lost my finger." Somebody went back and found a part of the finger that she had lost, but they couldn't put it back on. She's got a nub today about like this.	14:18
Gracie Valentine	The lady with the breast said her breast got caught in the gizzard machine. They said it just took the breasts all into it and just ripped the skin off it.	14:53
Erma Cofield Boone	But then, I'd seen several people getting thumbs and fingers cut off like that.	15:06
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:15:14].	15:07
Gracie Valentine	I remember him from the Center.	15:15
Erma Cofield Boone	This guy was running so fast when he passed, he got his whole thumb cut right off. Most of their hand, they cut off. They just go. If you don't be particular with what you're doing when you working on them breast cutters, and cut up, you'll cut your whole hand off. They put me up there one day, and I told them I was going to cut mine.	15:18
Gracie Valentine	He was over the chiller, over the chiller. And I don't understand how he lost his finger over the chiller.	15:41
Erma Cofield Boone	He got hung up in that shower.	15:46
Gracie Valentine	How? All he had to do with the bird was to lift it out, because I worked over the chiller.	15:48
Erma Cofield Boone	They didn't show him.	15:54
Gracie Valentine	Oh, they didn't show him how to do it. Okay. Because that was very simple, just to lift the bird out, threw it over in the chiller. Phillip put him up there. Phillip put him up there and didn't teach him, and the boy lost the thumb.	15:55
Chris Stewart	It sounds like that in addition to carpal tunnel, that the other really big problem is safety.	16:03
Gracie Valentine	Well, that's the whole thing there with them to tell me they have got different rules.	16:18
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah.	16:22
Gracie Valentine	If you get hurt or either cut yourself in the plant now, they're going to check you for alcohol or drug abuse, because they feel like that the reason why they're having so many accidents is because of the drug abuse or the alcohol abuse, and it's not that the lines are going too fast.	16:22
Chris Stewart	[indistinct 00:16:46]	16:42
Gracie Valentine	Well now— Oh, go ahead.	16:50
Erma Cofield Boone	Patrick told me, he said now they're going give them two breaks, and sometimes they don't want you to go out in between them breaks. They want to know. You have to go. That's what they had told me.	16:52
Gracie Valentine	My sister told me the same thing.	17:09
Chris Stewart	What kinds of things did you talk about while you were working? Not necessarily while you were working, but off the job, to try and help you make it through?	17:11
Erma Cofield Boone	Well, over there where I worked at, it wasn't as bad as over there where she worked at because when it got to me, everything was already cleaned and everything. The most thing I talked about, "Is it lunchtime? What time are we going to finish?" That's true. I'm telling you the truth. I don't know what time we're going to finish for the lunchtime, because they didn't know how to take me because they tell me that I want do one thing and I do something else.	17:27
Erma Cofield Boone	I just didn't let them get me down until they set me home. When they sent me home when I got worker's comp and that was cut off, that's when I really went down. Before then, they pretty much couldn't get me down because when he tell me he's going to put me doing something I didn't like, I would go to the doctor and the doctor would take me out. I stayed out more than I did in, after my hands got messed up, I would go to one doctor. That doctor sent me, and I'd go to another doctor, but my family doctor was the best one because he told that if they didn't stop me from wrapping, I would lose both hands, that Dr. Mitchell. He took me out. Then he took me out for good Dr. Mitchell. Dr. Watson, I had a Watson, and Dr. Cathedral.	17:58
Chris Stewart	What kinds of things did you do to try and get through?	18:46
Gracie Valentine	Well, I had no problem. Like I said, once I got the foreman told that I was going to do what I could do, not what he wanted me to do, they left me alone. But it's another thing too.	18:52
Gracie Valentine	When we first started back in 77, we had all Black supervisors and all Black foremen. It was a piece of cake. You enjoyed going to work. Then when the plant was beginning to make money, that's when the White men came in and they was going to push, push, push, pressure on everybody.	19:04
Erma Cofield Boone	That's right.	19:23
Gracie Valentine	They got rid of our Black supervisors, our Black foremen and put the White ones in their place, and that's when things went, when the workers went downhill, because they didn't care. If you got hurt, you got hurt. They had somebody, they would tell you in a heartbeat, "If you can't do it, there's plenty out there that will." We didn't have a problem with our Black people because they knew we would do our job properly. We did our job properly. But once the plant began to make big money, they're bringing in the White guys that was going to make us make more money for the plant. That's when the problems start. But that's seldom that we had anybody to get hurt.	19:23
Erma Cofield Boone	But over there when it was different, right?	20:02
Chris Stewart	Until that time?	20:05
Gracie Valentine	Mm—hmm. Until they got the White guys to be the foremen and the supervisors.	20:06
Chris Stewart	When was that? When was that? How long ago was that?	20:09
Gracie Valentine	I had been working there maybe five years. For the first five years, we had more Blacks.	20:14
Chris Stewart	Okay, to early '80s.	20:20
Gracie Valentine	Yes, something like that. That was when they speeded the lines up, and that's when the people that work harder, make more money.	20:22
Erma Cofield Boone	But I got along with the White foremen than I did the Blacks.	20:32
Gracie Valentine	Well, I got along with all them once I tell them what the way I felt, and what I was going to do. I enjoyed coming to work when the Black people was in control then.	20:35
Erma Cofield Boone	I enjoyed going to work until they got so that we had to do so many.	20:43
Gracie Valentine	That's what I'm saying.	20:49
Erma Cofield Boone	But it's worse now. Tommy, when he used to work back there, he worked back there, he don't even want to go to work no more. It's terrible now. It's really terrible.	20:50
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the foremen making racist or sexist comments?	21:00
Gracie Valentine	No, because when the White guys became foremen and supervisors, they made the comment to the women that they was going to bed with, making gestures, their pets. They're stupid fools.	21:08
Erma Cofield Boone	Well, I never had that problem.	21:29
Gracie Valentine	I didn't have that problem, but it was going on in my area.	21:30
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah, I know in your area.	21:30
Gracie Valentine	It was going on in my area was terrible, because they even caught a few of them. They got so good in the daytime, they couldn't wait until night would come. Another problem back there in my area was the Black women, and I'm Black too, so I can talk about them, they exchanged sex for their position. That was a no—no in the beginning, but it did go on. It's bad.	21:30
Chris Stewart	What does your organization, what does that do for you? I'm asking this question both personally for you and publicly, as a working woman?	22:03
Gracie Valentine	For me, personally, when I first—	22:19
Chris Stewart	I'm asking you this question too.	22:21
Gracie Valentine	— when I lost my foot, it was a comfort to come and talk to the women. They gave me great consolation. How can I say it? Liz, what can I say? I didn't cry, but if I had to cry, they would've cried with me. They have cried with the women that's gotten hurt.	22:24
Gracie Valentine	Like I told them, if what I'm trying to do now about suing Perdue, if you know anything doesn't come of it, it's all right because I want to help the ones that can get something, because they're doing the people wrong and still doing them wrong. The man that's the head of the human relationship, they need to castrate him. Let me do it with a razor blade, and then somebody hold him down and let me cut his tongue out and then cut his fingers off when he can't write no more lies. He needed to be hung up and strung up.	22:50
Chris Stewart	This is the human what?	23:28
Gracie Valentine	Relations. This is the man—	23:28
Erma Cofield Boone	Who's the man you're talking about?	23:28
Gracie Valentine	Robert.	23:28
Erma Cofield Boone	Yes, Lord. I wish I could catch him in the alleyway.	23:28
Gracie Valentine	He needs to be castrated and his tongue need to be cut out.	23:37
Chris Stewart	What's he writing?	23:40
Erma Cofield Boone	When I went to court last year in June, he had told me one day I went up there, my hands was sore and sometimes my hands swell, my hands were swollen so big and tight. I was sitting there like this, and I went up there and talked to him, and he told me, "Go home and stay there until you think your hands are well and then come back and go to work." He told Shirley, "You peoples always come in here complaining about your hands. Why don't you go somewhere else and get a job?: See, he's nasty. I wish I could catch that. I won't call no name.	23:43
Gracie Valentine	I'll tell you what I'd like to do to him.	24:13
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh—huh. I don't want to do that, I just want to get me a baseball bat.	24:13
Gracie Valentine	I don't want to kill him. I just want to mutilate him.	24:15
Erma Cofield Boone	I just want to give him a good beating.	24:15
Gracie Valentine	That would kill him.	24:15
Chris Stewart	They're fantasizing now.	24:15
Erma Cofield Boone	But he's terrible. He talks so nasty to you.	24:21
Gracie Valentine	Well, that's why he's holding this position because of the attitude. He is a pure racist. He don't call Black people, Black people, "You people, you people."	24:25
Chris Stewart	Okay. What has the Center done for you?	24:49
Erma Cofield Boone	Oh, that's a home away from home.	24:49
Chris Stewart	What? The center? Oh yeah.	24:53
Erma Cofield Boone	The Center is a home away from home. Before I got my phone, I would jump up in the morning, this girl I know down the road, calling 6:30 AM in the morning. She knows it's me calling her.	24:58
Chris Stewart	Yes.	25:05
Erma Cofield Boone	I mean, she wants me to do something, I get up early in the morning and go down the road and call her. See this one, I couldn't get in touch with this one. Shirley Tripp, my friend, she don't have a phone, so Liz will call me and tell me what to tell her. If I can't get help with her, I go back and call Liz back.	25:06
Erma Cofield Boone	Just like I said, it's a home away from home here. Just like Grace said, sometimes they cry with you. I'm telling you, it brought me a mighty long ways. I think I was headed towards a nervous breakdown.	25:28
Gracie Valentine	The support that you get from the people at this Center.	25:43
Chris Stewart	It's the what?	25:47
Gracie Valentine	The support. Okay, with Liz, Liz feels your pain. You can talk to her and the way that you be feeling, she shows it on her face.	25:48
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah. Sometimes I say, "Liz, you're going to the Center?" She'll say, "No, I'm not going today," she'll say, "Are you trying to catch a ride to the Center?" I say, "No, I won't have no way home."	26:01
Chris Stewart	Did two live close to each other?	26:16
Erma Cofield Boone	No, we live a long ways apart, a long ways apart. I think something like about 35, 40 miles.	26:17
Gracie Valentine	It might be more than that.	26:20
Erma Cofield Boone	She lives in Murfreesboro, here in Murfreesboro, and I live in Mary Hill. That's a long ways apart. But most of the time, I try to fix a way so I can get back home. But I just enjoyed going up there. When I get there, I'm just as happy as I can be.	26:22
Chris Stewart	Maybe Liz, you can talk a little bit about— These women have talked about what the Center does for them personally. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the purpose of the Center. I mean you're working.	26:42
Gracie Valentine	I got to get me a drink.	27:03
Chris Stewart	Maybe you could say your full name first.	27:04
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Okay.	27:05
Chris Stewart	Come over here.	27:07
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	I got a big mouth. My name is Bernice Elizabeth Sessions, known as Liz. I've been with the Center for three years now, and it feels like 300.	27:09
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	To me, the Center, what our purpose is, is to create an atmosphere, a workplace, a safe environment for women, a place where they can dream dreams and be enablers of other people, a place where they can feel good about self and what they're doing, a place where they can reach out and help somebody else.	27:26
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	For me, the Center has been a place of learning. I've learned an awful lot since I've been there three years. It's been a place of pain, because I've heard more in those three years than, I guess, I have in the other 30 years of my life.	27:53
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	It's been a place of growth, because I've seen workers that usually wouldn't even say their names, and now they're talking to other workers and telling them, "You have a right to do this," and, "Call this doctor," and, "There's an attorney there." It's just been a haven for, in my opinion, miracles because that's what it turns out to be.	28:12
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	We educate women of their workplace rights. That entails a lot because a lot of the workers that we work with live miles away from us. We do have support group meetings whenever time allows.	28:40
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Now it's gotten to the point where when there are support group meetings, workers that usually will come and sit, now they're actually facilitating these meetings. They're actually telling their stories and encouraging other workers, and let them know it's okay to talk. They cry with other workers, a lot of holding hands, so to speak.	28:59
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Now we have leadership development in which we try to empower and not overpower workers, to be advocates for themselves as well as others. The workers that we deal with know our mission, they know our goals, and they try to help achieve the goals. I think they're really dedicated to the mission. A lot of them have gotten to the point where it's no longer my situation or me, it's help somebody else so that they won't get to this point.	29:21
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	I'm trying to think if I missed anything. With our leadership development, we had four who started out as co—facilitators. They learned what we learned and they were teaching it to others. We have three that have actually become facilitators. One hasn't quite completed everything because she's been sick. We have others who want to now become facilitators to go through the training and learn what it is they need to know.	29:50
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	We work in five counties, and we have team leaders in those counties that actually meet together and discuss what the problems are, and sit down and try to come up with ways of solving the problems. They come up with ways of how to reach the other workers.	30:21
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	We do leafleting whenever we can. We actually go out to Perdue and pass out leaflets for hand—screening clinics. Whenever we can get a doctor, we pass out leaflets on information that they need to know. We take it and break it down as much as we can because a lot of it, they may not understand. We now have what is called an Ashton Group, which consists of workers that are fighting against Senate Bill 906, workers' comp.	30:40
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	I've seen myself grow, I feel, and I feel that I've seen the workers grow, and it's all been a positive growth. It's been a lot of pain and a lot of long hours. But I feel that instead of — We started out as a group, and now we are a team. It's like we're a family. I think everybody feels a part of this family.	31:09
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	We try not to make anybody feel that somebody is superior and they're inferior, because we all is one, and we are growing and we're going to be successful. The world needs to look out, because we've only just begun, even though we've been in it.	31:33
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	The organization has been started for 10 years, but now, we really see the growth. We see people moving on, we're seeing workers say, "No, this is not going to happen anymore. We are putting our foot down." People are coming together for a common purpose and thinking of strategies to accomplish whatever that purpose is. That's what we see. That's what we do.	31:48
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Every day is a challenge. Every day is different. Every day, there's a new pain or there's a new growth, but it's worth it. Even though I feel overworked 27 hours a day, it's worth it because the more I put in, the more I want to put in. The more I learn, the more I want to teach somebody else what I know. The more I see workers speak out, the more I want to see other workers speak out. I want to see our young people getting involved because they need to know what's going on. I want to see the truth told.	32:11
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	If I don't live to see this, I'm not worried because I know there are workers that can do this, that it's going to go on. If I fall by the wayside, that's all right, because the workers are going to go on with ladies like Miss Grace and Ms. Boo, it's going to get done. I don't worry anymore. I'm just going to do all I can because I know they're doing all they can. Whatever I learn, whatever I think I know or don't know, I want to try to teach it to them so that they'll know it, so we'll all be at the same place. So when we do get there, all of us will be there. I think I've said enough. I get too emotional.	32:44
Chris Stewart	No, that's great. That's great. Thanks a lot Liz.	33:17
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	You're welcome.	33:20
Chris Stewart	We'll move to Ms. Williams now, and ask you how you got involved with the Center. Tell me the story of you and the Center.	33:24
Lola Whitaker Williams	Well, I knew Cindy Arnold, the person who helped start the organization, because she used to walk, she used to beat the streets in Scotland Neck, Murfreesboro, and Littleton. She's been here for a while.	33:36
Lola Whitaker Williams	When she first had an opening for a position, two, I think she had an opening for two part—time positions with the organization, because she started out doing it with no pay. When she got where she could get some pay and then she got more money so she could pay some other organizers, then she sent applications to different people. She sent an application to the Concerned Citizens of Tillery, which Gary Grant is the general manager.	33:53
Lola Whitaker Williams	Gary and I work very closely together in the community. I volunteered to do community work in Tillery, and he showed the application to me and asked me why didn't I apply for it. I told him, "Because I can't do that kind of work." He says, "You're already doing that kind work, you're just not getting paid for it." I filled out the application. I sent into my resume and I got the job.	34:21
Chris Stewart	How long have you been with the Center?	34:45
Lola Whitaker Williams	This is my seventh year, working on my seventh year now.	34:49
Chris Stewart	So you've been here a while.	34:51
Lola Whitaker Williams	Yeah, I'm overcome.	34:53
Chris Stewart	How do you see your organization changing in the last seven years? Has it changed? If so, how?	34:53
Lola Whitaker Williams	I don't think the organ— Well, we started out doing stuff, not really knowing what we were doing. We were just, as it would come up, "Maybe I should do this and maybe I should do that." We started door knocking, one—on—one, introducing ourselves, telling people about the organization.	35:03
Lola Whitaker Williams	I now think that maybe, even though we got to be known that way, it might have been the wrong way, because the very first person I approached when I said something about trying to help workers who work at Perdue, it was a no—no. She said, "I don't want to talk about it."	35:27
Chris Stewart	Why do you think that?	35:43
Lola Whitaker Williams	Because she was afraid of her job. She was afraid that if she'd lose her job, she would lose her car and her home. And in this area, where people grew up on farms, they didn't have a whole lot, not many people had cars or a decent house to live in. Once they go to Perdue, and even though Perdue is not paying a whole lot of money, to us, it is a lot of money because of what we have had in the past. So she was just afraid of losing her job and she didn't want to talk about it.	35:46
Lola Whitaker Williams	But now, we don't have to go door—to—door knocking. So that's one of the changes. People are coming to us, and now we understand and we can take care of all the people that's coming to us.	36:19
Chris Stewart	How many people, how manufacturing women are involved, do you think? How many women involved, when you started getting involved in the Center?	36:32
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Do you mean on a regular basis?	36:35
Chris Stewart	Well—	36:35
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Within a month's period of time? I would have to say, even when they come within a month, we have 25 to 16 women come in. [indistinct 00:37:07] They're not always the ones that call us at home and things like that. Actively, actually we've called it [indistinct 00:37:28], but actively, we have somewhere in between— ?	36:36
Lola Whitaker Williams	We've never counted.	37:37
Chris Stewart	Sorry, I didn't mean to ask the hard question.	37:39
Gracie Valentine	That's what I was going to say. That's what I was going to say.	37:44
Chris Stewart	Do you focus on people who work or does the Center really reach out to people who are working for Perdue?	37:49
Lola Whitaker Williams	We work with all working people, no matter where they work, if there's a problem, if there's a problem on the job. But our main focus is on Perdue because they employ so many more and they damage so many more women. But we help men too, but a lot more women than men.	37:58
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	[indistinct 00:38:29], to hear what they had to say and to see what they thought and how they would feel. We need to be able to work with them. [indistinct 00:39:14].	38:20
Chris Stewart	Are there any questions that I haven't asked that you want me to ask?	39:29
Lola Whitaker Williams	I don't know, but tonight I'll think of something.	39:41
Chris Stewart	Well, you've got my number. Really.	39:44
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	I want to ask you a question.	39:47
Chris Stewart	Sure.	39:47
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	What types of events have you learned about Perdue?	39:47
Chris Stewart	Most of the stuff that I know about it comes from the things that I've read in Southern Exposure, and just following up on that at the Institute for Southern Staff. A lot of the stuff that you all were talking about, I had heard and read about before.	40:05
Chris Stewart	I also know that, although your services are offered to both men and women, women were the most exposed in the South, I think. That's one of the reasons why it was so important for me and for Ms. Williams to be a part of this project. If y'all know anybody who you think would the important for us to talk to, let me know, and I'll do my darnedest to do that, because I think that it's crucial to have that experience. [indistinct 00:41:21] Oh, I didn't doubt it at all.	40:29
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Were you surprised?	41:27
Chris Stewart	I think probably I would be a liar to say that I wasn't shocked, but I won't say that I was surprised.	41:31
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	No?	41:41
Gracie Valentine	Because it's been going on for years.	41:41
Chris Stewart	For a long time. I come from an area in the north in Minnesota, which is a mining area where it's predominantly men who are mining, but there's a lot of [indistinct 00:41:56]. The difference there is that they're unionized. They're unionized in Northern Minnesota and Minnesota is one of the smallest states for union activity, labor activity. They have a union backing them up and unions, sometimes they screw people over and sometimes they don't. But in this case, they're not.	41:43
Chris Stewart	They take the court cases to court. They pay for those cases instead of having to pay for them yourself or raise the money. The union does that.	42:18
Chris Stewart	My sister is works with them in an electrical company. They make computer chips for things. She's working on the floor. They're saying that she always had this problem. She's in that. This is also predominantly women. But this is a non—union shop. So she's having to pay her own lawyer to go through it. I won't say that I'm surprised, I was shocked.	42:31
Gracie Valentine	But if they could get some of the workers that was working in the plant that I'm working in that want to talk, now that would be the icing on the case. If you forget, you understand what I'm saying? If you forget some of the injured workers that are still working in the plant to talk, my sister will be a good one, but she won't do it.	43:16
Lola Whitaker Williams	And taking birth control pills? [indistinct 00:43:58], take birth control.	43:48
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	This is where you can come and talk, because when you leave, where are you supposed to go?	44:07
Lola Whitaker Williams	She's in shock.	44:13
Gracie Valentine	Look at the years that we were at our home cleaning. My foot didn't bother me, it didn't go bad.	44:18
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	Same here, the question that they take to this day, if that's the case, why is it men aren't having a problem talking?	44:31
Chris Stewart	They aren't saying birth control, they don't wear bra straps unless they're a little—	44:36
Gracie Valentine	They don't wear bras.	44:42
Chris Stewart	No.	44:43
Speaker 1	Yes. We know it's an excuse and it's an excuse because they don't want to own up to what they did. They don't want to be held liable. They don't want to be responsible. They figure, "Well, we messed up this batch, we'll go to the next." They don't treat people like human beings. You become a member, you become a spot, you become a thing. And that's not right.	44:46
Gracie Valentine	You become those people.	45:08
Erma Cofield Boone	You people. They don't say you're an employee no more, you're something.	45:10
Lola Whitaker Williams	In other words, slavery didn't stop. They just took them out of the cotton fields.	45:17
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	She needs to talk to some of the people that were at Hammer.	45:20
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah, that was sad.	45:20
Bernice Elizabeth Sessions	And the only thing about that is they can't help women there.	45:35
Erma Cofield Boone	Oh yeah.	45:42
Gracie Valentine	Because there's no way out.	45:42
Erma Cofield Boone	One thing they got, they don't have no more locks on them. Tommy told me. If that's hearsay, I don't know.	45:45
Chris Stewart	They did have locked doors up until they had the fire.	45:54
Erma Cofield Boone	They used too, yeah. But Tommy told me they unlocked the doors. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the door were locked when I was working up there or not.	45:56
Gracie Valentine	The back door was locked over there where we worked at. I went way back on end and you're worked on another end.	46:08
Erma Cofield Boone	Our doors was unlocked for several reasons, at the back doors when I was there, the doors from outside had—	46:16
Gracie Valentine	Come through there, right.	46:21
Erma Cofield Boone	We had no locked doors on that side. I don't know about your side.	46:23
Gracie Valentine	The doors where I was at, at the back, it was locked, but you could open it, but they were locked because it was 24 degrees in there.	46:29
Erma Cofield Boone	I think that's what the whole idea, because the chicken was going out in the front gate by the White man, not the Blacks.	46:37
Gracie Valentine	When they don't have time, they're ready to go home.	46:44

Chris Stewart	Let's hope it works. All right. Okay, we'll start with you, Ms. Williams. What's your full name?	0:03
Lola Whitaker Williams	Williams, May Lola.	0:16
Chris Stewart	And your maiden name? Or is Williams your maiden name?	0:25
Lola Whitaker Williams	Williams.	0:33
Chris Stewart	Your current address?	0:33
Lola Whitaker Williams	Route One, Box 82A.	0:34
Chris Stewart	Is that really close to Gary's?	0:40
Lola Whitaker Williams	Yeah, down the road, Halifax.	0:41
Chris Stewart	And your home phone number?	0:41
Lola Whitaker Williams	273-826-4043.	0:41
Chris Stewart	And your work number?	1:00
Lola Whitaker Williams	332-4179.	1:00
Chris Stewart	I'd like to know exactly how you'd like to appear in any written material, transcripts.	1:08
Lola Whitaker Williams	May Louise.	1:21
Chris Stewart	Okay. Ms. Valentine, your turn for this page.	1:21
Gracie Valentine	Valentine, Grace.	1:27
Chris Stewart	And your maiden name?	1:33
Gracie Valentine	Valentine.	1:35
Chris Stewart	Your maiden name is Valentine?	1:36
Gracie Valentine	I took it back.	1:37
Chris Stewart	Good, yes. I'm not sure I'm ever going to get rid of mine.	1:38
Gracie Valentine	Oh, you've been married?	1:44
Chris Stewart	No.	1:45
Gracie Valentine	Oh.	1:46
Chris Stewart	I'm not married.	1:47
Gracie Valentine	Okay, okay. Very good.	1:48
Chris Stewart	And from after talking to you all, I'm not so sure that's something I'll—	1:49
Lola Whitaker Williams	No, don't let us—	1:54
Chris Stewart	No, there's absolutely nothing in my future, so not to worry. Your current address.	1:55
Gracie Valentine	Route 1575.	2:00
Chris Stewart	75, did you say?	2:04
Gracie Valentine	Mm-hmm, Ahoskie.	2:06
Chris Stewart	I have to get up there, I have to get up to Ahoskie.	2:09
Gracie Valentine	[indistinct 00:02:12].	2:11
Chris Stewart	And the zip?	2:11
Gracie Valentine	27910.	2:16
Chris Stewart	And your home phone number?	2:19
Gracie Valentine	332-2022.	2:21
Chris Stewart	Do you have a work number?	2:28
Gracie Valentine	No.	2:28
Chris Stewart	And how would you like your name to appear in any written?	2:30
Gracie Valentine	Just how it is.	2:34
Chris Stewart	Any nicknames that you like?	2:35
Gracie Valentine	No.	2:36
Chris Stewart	I thought I'd just ask.	2:40
Gracie Valentine	My brothers and sister call me Wasp Hand, my sister.	2:42
Chris Stewart	What did they call you?	2:47
Gracie Valentine	Wasp Hand. You know what a wasp is?	2:50
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	2:52
Gracie Valentine	I had a temper of a wasp, and [indistinct 00:02:55].	2:52
Chris Stewart	Wasp Hand, okay.	2:53
Erma Cofield Boone	I'm Ms. Boone, Erma Maye.	3:01
Chris Stewart	Right. Is it B-O-O-N-E?	3:06
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah, N-E.	3:09
Chris Stewart	Erma Maye?	3:23
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh, E.	3:23
Chris Stewart	Maiden name?	3:23
Erma Cofield Boone	Cofield?	3:24
Chris Stewart	Cofield?	3:24
Erma Cofield Boone	Yes, O-F-A-E-R.	3:24
Chris Stewart	Current address?	3:30
Erma Cofield Boone	PO Box 82, Merry Hill.	3:30
Chris Stewart	Murray or Mary?	3:38
Erma Cofield Boone	M-E-R-R-Y.	3:39
Chris Stewart	And zip?	3:39
Erma Cofield Boone	27957.	3:39
Chris Stewart	And your home phone number?	3:39
Erma Cofield Boone	356-2799.	3:39
Chris Stewart	And exactly how you'd like your name to appear in any written material?	4:00
Lola Whitaker Williams	Sue Boome.	4:02
Erma Cofield Boone	Sue Boome. Sue Boome, nobody will know it's me.	4:02
Chris Stewart	You're going to have to spell it for me.	4:10
Erma Cofield Boone	S-U-E, Boome.	4:11
Chris Stewart	How come Sue?	4:20
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know. That's what my grandmother called me.	4:21
Gracie Valentine	She nicknamed you?	4:26
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh. No, they all would nickname me.	4:26
Lola Whitaker Williams	Is that the way you want it to appear?	4:30
Erma Cofield Boone	Everybody knows me as Sue, everybody don't know Irma.	4:31
Lola Whitaker Williams	They know you by Sue Boome.	4:38
Erma Cofield Boone	Everybody knows me by Sue Boome. Everybody don't know Irma. If you go to my neighbor and ask for Irma Boome, he wouldn't know.	4:38
Chris Stewart	Really?	4:43
Lola Whitaker Williams	I used to call her neighbor and I said, "Could give a message to Irma Boome," he said, "Who?" I said, "Sue Boome," "Oh, to Sue, okay. All right."	4:44
Chris Stewart	Okay. We're on to page two. Now we need your date of birth.	4:54
Lola Whitaker Williams	12/4/39.	5:00
Chris Stewart	And your place of birth?	5:07
Lola Whitaker Williams	Rich Square in Northhampton County, North Carolina.	5:08
Chris Stewart	You're widowed?	5:22
Lola Whitaker Williams	Mm-hmm.	5:22
Chris Stewart	Your spouse's name?	5:23
Lola Whitaker Williams	Adam Williams.	5:25
Chris Stewart	Place of birth, or date of birth? We don't have to put it down.	5:33
Gracie Valentine	February. I believe it was the 28th.	5:41
Chris Stewart	Year?	5:44
Gracie Valentine	I have to count on my fingers.	5:44
Chris Stewart	Okay.	5:44
Gracie Valentine	'35, I'll say.	5:44
Chris Stewart	And he died?	5:44
Gracie Valentine	In March of '68.	5:44
Chris Stewart	Do you like being a single woman?	6:18
Gracie Valentine	Yeah.	6:19
Chris Stewart	How come?	6:20
Gracie Valentine	I'm free.	6:23
Chris Stewart	That's a great answer. What do you mean by, "You're free,"?	6:27
Gracie Valentine	I don't have to cook for anybody, I don't have to answer to anybody. I'm free. When I'm walking around the house, I don't have to say, "Well honey, I'm going up the road, I'll be back in 10 minutes," because I might be back in 40, and when I get back at home, I know you're waiting there for me.	6:30
Chris Stewart	See now, I'm sorry, but after having talked, I'm serious.	6:50
Lola Whitaker Williams	That didn't happen until to me, but it could.	6:55
Chris Stewart	Right. It very well could.	7:00
Lola Whitaker Williams	I remember that he [indistinct 00:07:05].	7:01
Chris Stewart	Your spouse's place of birth?	7:07
Gracie Valentine	I think Roxboro.	7:09
Chris Stewart	I can figure that out. What was his occupation?	7:12
Gracie Valentine	Mechanic.	7:21
Chris Stewart	Okay that's that section. Now it's your turn, your date of birth, ma'am?	7:26
Erma Cofield Boone	8/28/40.	7:31
Chris Stewart	And your place of birth?	7:37
Erma Cofield Boone	Rich County.	7:38
Chris Stewart	And you're currently divorced? And your spouse's name? Your ex-spouse's?	7:45
Erma Cofield Boone	Do we have to?	7:53
Chris Stewart	No, we don't. Okay. So we'll just skip the rest of that.	7:53
Erma Cofield Boone	Thanks, ma'am.	7:58
Lola Whitaker Williams	She's through with him?	8:01
Chris Stewart	Huh?	8:02
Lola Whitaker Williams	She's through with him.	8:02
Chris Stewart	That's fine.	8:02
Erma Cofield Boone	There's nothing for him to do.	8:02
Chris Stewart	Ms. Boome, your date of birth?	8:02
Erma Cofield Boone	[indistinct 00:08:13], '35.	8:02
Chris Stewart	Your place of birth.	8:24
Erma Cofield Boone	Up in Merry Hill.	8:24
Chris Stewart	What is your birth day exactly? I'm not going to push it, I won't force you.	8:33
Erma Cofield Boone	I'll get it right.	8:42
Chris Stewart	What is so funny?	8:45
Erma Cofield Boone	When I said, "Do you have to fill in about the husband," part.	8:45
Chris Stewart	And you just think that's hysterical.	8:52
Lola Whitaker Williams	He must have been terrible, your husband.	8:56
Chris Stewart	Well.	8:57
Erma Cofield Boone	August the 19th.	8:57
Chris Stewart	I don't know. Maybe we should skip you and let you recover here. And you're currently divorced?	9:09
Erma Cofield Boone	Widowed.	9:16
Chris Stewart	Widowed.	9:16
Gracie Valentine	What in the world?	9:27
Erma Cofield Boone	Clarence, Jr.	9:27
Chris Stewart	Clarence, Clarence Julius?	9:27
Erma Cofield Boone	Junior. He was a Junior.	9:27
Chris Stewart	He was a Junior.	9:27
Gracie Valentine	Why are y'all still laughing?	9:27
Chris Stewart	His date of birth? Do you know the year?	9:40
Erma Cofield Boone	June, '44, June 26th.	9:45
Chris Stewart	And he died? Did you say '68?	9:45
Erma Cofield Boone	'68 or '69. I got to count up now. '69.	9:55
Chris Stewart	His place of birth?	10:11
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know.	10:11
Chris Stewart	What was his occupation?	10:11
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know. He was in Boston when he died, so I don't know.	10:18
Chris Stewart	When he was with you, what was his occupation?	10:18
Erma Cofield Boone	He kept tires, a tire service.	10:19
Chris Stewart	Okay. We're back to you. Your parent's names?	10:31
Lola Whitaker Williams	Moses and Julia.	10:35
Chris Stewart	Your mother's name first.	10:38
Lola Whitaker Williams	Julia Wallace was her maiden name.	10:39
Chris Stewart	Do you know her date of birth? Year.	10:40
Lola Whitaker Williams	I used to. I don't talk about this stuff. Her birthdate is May 22nd, but we have to figure out when she was born.	10:58
Chris Stewart	How old was she when she died?	11:07
Lola Whitaker Williams	She was 55.	11:10
Chris Stewart	And she died in '68.	11:10
Lola Whitaker Williams	'68.	11:19
Chris Stewart	'13.	11:19
Lola Whitaker Williams	1913, yeah. Daddy was born in 1910, I remember that.	11:22
Chris Stewart	There you go. That didn't take long. Let me put that 1910 down right now so we don't forget. Where was she born?	11:23
Lola Whitaker Williams	In Northhampton County.	11:31
Chris Stewart	And her occupation was?	11:41
Lola Whitaker Williams	Housewife.	11:42
Chris Stewart	I will put down housewife. And your father's name was?	11:48
Lola Whitaker Williams	Moses.	11:53
Chris Stewart	And when did he die?	12:02
Lola Whitaker Williams	'70.	12:05
Chris Stewart	Do you know his place of birth?	12:07
Lola Whitaker Williams	Northhampton County. I know he was born in Jackson.	12:08
Chris Stewart	He was born in the city?	12:20
Lola Whitaker Williams	No, in Jackson, North Carolina in Northhampton County.	12:24
Chris Stewart	Northhampton County, yeah.	12:24
Lola Whitaker Williams	He seemed to be like my county, born in Bertie County.	12:24
Chris Stewart	Let me just put Bertie County down.	12:32
Lola Whitaker Williams	Put Bertie because I think but I don't know, I don't remember.	12:34
Chris Stewart	Well, you weren't exactly around when she was born though, were you?	12:39
Lola Whitaker Williams	No.	12:41
Chris Stewart	He was a farmer?	12:44
Lola Whitaker Williams	Uh-huh.	12:46
Chris Stewart	Okay, ma'am. Now we're onto your mother's name.	12:54
Gracie Valentine	It's Patty Valentine. Her maiden name or her marriage name, which one?	13:01
Chris Stewart	I need her maiden name as well.	13:08
Gracie Valentine	Askew.	13:11
Chris Stewart	A-S-K-E-W? Do you know what her date of birth is?	13:11
Gracie Valentine	I remember it was February 15th, but I can't tell you what year.	13:18
Chris Stewart	Okay. Do you know when she died?	13:21
Gracie Valentine	1912.	13:21
Chris Stewart	Okay. When did she die, ma'am?	13:23
Gracie Valentine	My mama died in '76.	13:27
Chris Stewart	Do you know where she was born?	13:31
Gracie Valentine	Bertie County.	13:33
Chris Stewart	And her occupation.	13:39
Gracie Valentine	Housewife.	13:40
Chris Stewart	And your father's name?	13:48
Gracie Valentine	Sidney Valentine.	13:50
Chris Stewart	And his date of birth?	13:56
Gracie Valentine	March the 7th, 1910.	13:57
Chris Stewart	And when did he die, ma'am?	14:03
Gracie Valentine	I think he died— He's been dead about five years.	14:14
Chris Stewart	'88? '87?	14:14
Gracie Valentine	Somewhere around 1987.	14:14
Chris Stewart	And where was he born?	14:16
Gracie Valentine	Bertie County.	14:17
Chris Stewart	And his occupation?	14:20
Gracie Valentine	Farmer.	14:21
Chris Stewart	We're getting through it. Your mother's name?	14:26
Erma Cofield Boone	Nellie.	14:29
Chris Stewart	You were raised by your grandmother though, right? All right, Nellie.	14:32
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know her name, I don't know nothing, but just Nellie Anthony. That was her maiden name.	14:48
Chris Stewart	Nellie Anthony?	14:54
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh.	14:56
Chris Stewart	She was born?	15:00
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know no more.	15:02
Chris Stewart	Okay. How about your father?	15:05
Erma Cofield Boone	Johnny Cole Boome.	15:05
Chris Stewart	And his birthdate?	15:05
Erma Cofield Boone	February, but I don't know his date.	15:05
Chris Stewart	Okay.	15:05
Erma Cofield Boone	1916.	15:05
Chris Stewart	When did he die?	15:06
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know about that, normally, I don't know about no family matters. I think he died, some years ago. It was some years back.	15:52
Chris Stewart	'83, '77? No, '75. Seven years ago.	15:54
Erma Cofield Boone	It was '75.	15:55
Chris Stewart	Where was your father born?	16:06
Erma Cofield Boone	Bertie.	16:07
Chris Stewart	He was a farmer?	16:11
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh.	16:11
Chris Stewart	Okay, we're getting there, we're getting there. Any children?	16:16
Lola Whitaker Williams	Unfortunately.	16:20
Chris Stewart	Does that mean that you don't want them down on this paper?	16:21
Lola Whitaker Williams	I've got four and that's too many.	16:29
Chris Stewart	Okay. What are their names?	16:30
Lola Whitaker Williams	Theodore [indistinct 00:16:36].	16:32
Chris Stewart	When was he born? I'm just going to skip that. Let's go down to the next child.	16:38
Lola Whitaker Williams	Adam.	16:42
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	16:42
Lola Whitaker Williams	Tonja, T-O-N-J-A.	16:42
Chris Stewart	Is she married?	16:56
Lola Whitaker Williams	Mm-hmm, she went to Vegas. And Rodney.	16:56
Chris Stewart	I'm sorry?	17:03
Lola Whitaker Williams	Rodney.	17:03
Chris Stewart	Any grandchildren?	17:06
Gracie Valentine	Nieces and nephews, that's what she calls them.	17:08
Lola Whitaker Williams	They're all nieces and nephews.	17:10
Chris Stewart	You are just sneaky. How many nieces and nephews do you have?	17:11
Lola Whitaker Williams	Six.	17:18
Chris Stewart	Let's get this whole paper done, brothers and sisters, starting from the oldest to the youngest?	17:23
Lola Whitaker Williams	Name?	17:30
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	17:30
Lola Whitaker Williams	Wilson, James. The next one died, do you still want a name? Clayton, Conrad, C-O-N-R-A-D. How many do you got?	17:31
Chris Stewart	Four.	17:47
Lola Whitaker Williams	Moses. They're my brothers.	17:47
Chris Stewart	Then you?	17:47
Lola Whitaker Williams	Well, I'm between— Moses is the last one, I'm next to him.	18:09
Chris Stewart	So you are one, two, three— Fifth?	18:17
Lola Whitaker Williams	Mm-hmm.	18:18
Chris Stewart	Do you have any idea about the dates in terms of what years people were born?	18:21
Lola Whitaker Williams	I can figure it out. I can do that.	18:27
Chris Stewart	Okay. You said don't ask you?	18:38
Erma Cofield Boone	I mean, I know the names, but I don't know when they were born.	18:39
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Well, whatever people can remember, that's all we need. Okay. Ms. Valentine, names of your sisters and brothers? Are you working on it right now?	18:41
Gracie Valentine	I have five brothers. The oldest was named Sidney Williams.	18:49
Chris Stewart	Do you know when he was born?	18:54
Gracie Valentine	We had his birthday a couple of weeks ago, June the 10th.	19:03
Chris Stewart	It was June the 10th?	19:09
Gracie Valentine	June the 10th.	19:09
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the year? How old is he?	19:12
Gracie Valentine	He's 62.	19:21
Chris Stewart	So he was born in '31? 62, '31?	19:41
Gracie Valentine	Yeah. It's 1949.	19:41
Chris Stewart	Oh, right. Okay. Next?	19:41
Gracie Valentine	James. Okay, James was born in March, and he is 60.	19:41
Chris Stewart	So he was born in '33.	19:41
Gracie Valentine	Mm-hmm.	19:41
Chris Stewart	Okay.	19:41
Gracie Valentine	Norman. He was born in July, and he is 58.	19:41
Chris Stewart	So he was born in '35.	19:41
Gracie Valentine	No, no. Wait, no, no, James is 60, then he's 59.	19:41
Chris Stewart	He was born in '34.	19:58
Gracie Valentine	Winston Marchelle. He was born in '39, March, I believe. He is 55.	20:04
Chris Stewart	55, did you say? So he was born in '38.	20:25
Gracie Valentine	Mm-hmm. My brother, John Louis.	20:28
Chris Stewart	John Louis?	20:36
Gracie Valentine	Jonah.	20:37
Chris Stewart	How do you spell it?	20:38
Gracie Valentine	J-O-N-A-H, like Jonah Fitzboro.	20:39
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	20:42
Gracie Valentine	He was born in April, and he is 51.	20:44
Chris Stewart	You're the baby.	20:55
Gracie Valentine	One more, Shirley.	20:55
Chris Stewart	Oh wait, 1951, so that would be 1942. You're not the baby.	20:58
Gracie Valentine	No. Shirley, she was born on November 7th.	21:09
Chris Stewart	What's Shirley's name?	21:14
Gracie Valentine	Shirley Sessons, she's a Sessons.	21:15
Chris Stewart	S-E?	21:15
Gracie Valentine	S-S-O-N-S.	21:18
Chris Stewart	And she was born?	21:20
Gracie Valentine	She was born November 7th, 1943.	21:23
Chris Stewart	19—?	21:23
Gracie Valentine	'43. She'll be 50, no. Yeah, this year 51. She went up too.	21:36
Chris Stewart	You are in the birth order, one, two, three, four, fifth?	21:37
Gracie Valentine	Sixth. Well, wait.	21:42
Chris Stewart	Jonah and Shirley are younger than you?	21:45
Gracie Valentine	They're younger than I am. They're [indistinct 00:21:49].	21:47
Chris Stewart	And now children?	21:47
Gracie Valentine	Okay.	21:47
Chris Stewart	That's what you were writing down, okay.	21:54
Gracie Valentine	Yes. Jacqueline. She's J-A-C-Q-U-E-L-I-N-E. You don't need the last name, do you?	22:00
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	22:07
Gracie Valentine	She's a Jefferson by marriage.	22:07
Chris Stewart	Okay.	22:10
Gracie Valentine	Okay, she was born September the 23rd, 1977.	22:11
Chris Stewart	'77?	22:12
Gracie Valentine	Yeah.	22:12
Chris Stewart	Okay.	22:12
Gracie Valentine	Okay. Sandra Boston.	22:20
Chris Stewart	Sandra or Sondra?	22:23
Gracie Valentine	S-A-N-D-R-A, Boston. Born in '76.	22:39
Lola Whitaker Williams	Born?	22:39
Gracie Valentine	No, no. '77.	22:39
Lola Whitaker Williams	That means she's older than I am.	22:39
Gracie Valentine	I'm glad you caught that.	22:39
Lola Whitaker Williams	I kept looking at you.	22:39
Gracie Valentine	Okay. She was born in '67.	22:47
Chris Stewart	Got it.	22:48
Lola Whitaker Williams	Okay.	22:49
Chris Stewart	Which? Who?	22:51
Gracie Valentine	Jacqueline. Thanks again.	22:51
Erma Cofield Boone	What year was she born?	22:51
Lola Whitaker Williams	She should have born before '65.	22:51
Gracie Valentine	'57.	22:51
Chris Stewart	'57.	22:51
Gracie Valentine	It was '57. I was '17.	22:51
Chris Stewart	I'm glad you caught that, but I'm so involved here.	23:05
Erma Cofield Boone	I'm looking at her.	23:06
Gracie Valentine	Sandra Boston was born—	23:09
Chris Stewart	You were having babies going off of them. Okay, now wait. Was the birthdate again?	23:12
Gracie Valentine	Okay. Sandra Boston, December the 27th, 1958. And Peggy Sue was born February 9th, 1960.	23:19
Chris Stewart	And what's Peggy Sue's last name?	23:35
Gracie Valentine	Jefferson, she's married. All these are married.	23:37
Chris Stewart	Two Jeffersons, huh?	23:41
Gracie Valentine	They married two brothers. Okay, Reginald Sessons.	23:42
Chris Stewart	Reginald?	23:43
Gracie Valentine	Reginald, R-E-G-I-N-A-L-D.	23:48
Chris Stewart	What date?	23:50
Gracie Valentine	He was born in October the 1st. Y'all leave me alone. I wrote it down wrong. October the 1st, 1960.	23:52
Chris Stewart	What did you say, Reginald what?	24:03
Gracie Valentine	Sessons, S-E-S-S-O-N-S.	24:06
Chris Stewart	Okay.	24:06
Gracie Valentine	We've got '60, '70, '80. He was born in '46 because he'll just be turning 30 this year.	24:17
Chris Stewart	He is? Then it was '63.	24:25
Gracie Valentine	I don't have to get it right. Okay, he was born in '63.	24:25
Chris Stewart	Okay. Four down, four to go.	24:26
Gracie Valentine	Yes. Johnetta was born February the 26th.	24:28
Chris Stewart	Johnetta?	24:31
Gracie Valentine	Johnetta, J-O-H-N-E-T-T-A.	24:33
Chris Stewart	What's her married name?	24:36
Gracie Valentine	Johnetta Bryant.	24:37
Chris Stewart	Okay.	24:37
Gracie Valentine	She was born February the 26th, 1965.	24:37
Chris Stewart	Okay. We're on a downhill slide now.	24:37
Gracie Valentine	Faye Patterson was born February the 23rd, 1967.	24:37
Chris Stewart	Which would make her 27, '67?	24:37
Gracie Valentine	No, she's not that old. Johnetta is only 27.	25:05
Chris Stewart	Three years to '70 and three years from '91, 26. That would make her 26.	25:06
Gracie Valentine	Not Faye. She can't be that old because Johnetta is only 23 or 24.	25:20
Chris Stewart	Johnetta would be 28.	25:24
Gracie Valentine	She's three years older than Faye.	25:31
Chris Stewart	How old is Johnetta?	25:34
Gracie Valentine	She is 27.	25:39
Chris Stewart	Okay. If she's 27, then this must be '66, that she born.	25:40
Lola Whitaker Williams	No, because she said she'll be 28.	25:45
Gracie Valentine	She'll be 28 next year.	25:48
Chris Stewart	Right, but she already had a birthday this year, so this is '66.	25:48
Gracie Valentine	I hope it's right. My brain is sliding.	25:51
Chris Stewart	You said Faye is how much younger?	25:51
Gracie Valentine	Faye is three years younger than Johnetta.	25:57
Chris Stewart	Okay, so that's '69. Okay, we're getting there. One, two, three, four, five, six, two more.	26:00
Gracie Valentine	Johnny Roy.	26:06
Chris Stewart	Valentine or Sessons?	26:12
Gracie Valentine	Sessons.	26:12
Lola Whitaker Williams	How old is Johnny Roy?	26:12
Gracie Valentine	Johnny Roy is 23 next August. He'll be 23 in August. Y'all figure it out? Got one more. Maria, Maria Sessons, December the 23rd. [indistinct 00:26:49]	26:26
Chris Stewart	You had a lot of babies in December and February.	26:50
Gracie Valentine	That's what I made for, so I'd say so. Okay, she is 20.	26:56
Chris Stewart	Oh, that's easy.	26:58
Gracie Valentine	She'll be on 21 on her birthday.	27:00
Chris Stewart	Grandchildren?	27:00
Gracie Valentine	Lord, don't ask me.	27:02
Chris Stewart	Not the names, just how many?	27:03
Gracie Valentine	I've got 16. You don't have to name them, thanks.	27:05
Chris Stewart	Nope. Your turn.	27:12
Gracie Valentine	Thank you very much.	27:17
Erma Cofield Boone	How much longer is going to take to do that? This is my information on that.	27:18
Chris Stewart	It should take about 10 more minutes.	27:19
Lola Whitaker Williams	I've got to run to the bathroom.	27:22
Chris Stewart	Okay, I'm sorry. It's locked.	27:22
Lola Whitaker Williams	Just wait for me.	27:22
Chris Stewart	Okay. Well yeah, no, we won't leave without you.	27:30
Gracie Valentine	Do you want to write down my information?	27:32
Chris Stewart	Well, I can get the rest of it. There's more information on here, but I can get the rest of information. I also have to get a permission form from you too. Are you going to come back?	27:50
Lola Whitaker Williams	Yeah, I'll be back.	27:58
Chris Stewart	Cool.	27:58
Lola Whitaker Williams	Okay, okay. Okay. Don't leave me.	27:58
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Well, we'll be here, or at least I'll be here.	28:05
Gracie Valentine	I'll be here.	28:07
Chris Stewart	Well, that's your ride.	28:07
Gracie Valentine	How are we going to go without our ride?	28:08
Chris Stewart	We'll just talk. Sisters and brothers?	28:10
Erma Cofield Boone	Joesephine.	28:12
Chris Stewart	Can you spell?	28:16
Erma Cofield Boone	J-O-E, from Joe. I don't know when she was born. I don't know what year, but she's 69, February the 28th.	28:18
Chris Stewart	'24, 1924? February the 28th, did you say?	28:43
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm.	28:43
Chris Stewart	Okay.	28:45
Erma Cofield Boone	Elizabeth.	28:45
Chris Stewart	I'm sorry?	28:45
Erma Cofield Boone	Elizabeth.	28:45
Chris Stewart	Okay. What's her married name?	28:54
Erma Cofield Boone	Austin.	28:55
Chris Stewart	How old?	29:01
Erma Cofield Boone	January the 11th, '34. After that, I don't know, but I got 10 more after that.	29:08
Chris Stewart	Okay. These are your—?	29:11
Erma Cofield Boone	They're my sisters.	29:11
Chris Stewart	Okay.	29:11
Erma Cofield Boone	Yeah, Margie.	29:11
Chris Stewart	Do you names?	29:11
Erma Cofield Boone	I know the names.	29:11
Chris Stewart	Okay, cool.	29:11
Erma Cofield Boone	Margie.	29:11
Chris Stewart	Majie?	29:22
Erma Cofield Boone	Margie.	29:24
Chris Stewart	Margie. And what's her married name?	29:29
Erma Cofield Boone	Slede.	29:34
Chris Stewart	S-L-A-Y?	29:37
Erma Cofield Boone	S-L-E-D-E.	29:40
Chris Stewart	D-E.	29:46
Erma Cofield Boone	She's two years younger than I am, so I know her age, '37, because I was born in '35, August the 20th. Clarine.	29:46
Chris Stewart	How do you spell? C-L-A-R-I-N-E?	30:02
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh.	30:04
Chris Stewart	Married name?	30:04
Erma Cofield Boone	Cary, C-A-R-Y. I don't know her birthday. I don't know.	30:16
Chris Stewart	Do you know how old she is?	30:17
Erma Cofield Boone	There are two years between her. She was born in March. I know March, but I don't know the date.	30:18
Chris Stewart	Okay.	30:28
Erma Cofield Boone	And Bertie Swain, V-E-R-S-W-A-I-N.	30:29
Chris Stewart	Swain, did you say?	30:51
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh.	30:51
Chris Stewart	A-I-N?	30:51
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh. She was born April the 6th. She's 53, so she must have been born in '40. Johnny. I don't even know what month he was born in. I know here in Cofield.	30:51
Chris Stewart	That's right.	30:51
Erma Cofield Boone	William. I don't know how old he is. Fannie.	30:56
Chris Stewart	Y or I-E?	31:18
Lola Whitaker Williams	Her name is Annie.	31:23
Erma Cofield Boone	Her name? A-N-N-I-E. We call her Fannie, but her name is Annie.	31:28
Chris Stewart	What's her married name?	31:29
Erma Cofield Boone	Leary, L-E-A-R.	31:30
Chris Stewart	L-E-A-R-Y?	31:30
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh. She was born in March, but I don't know the date.	31:30
Chris Stewart	Okay.	31:43
Erma Cofield Boone	David. He was born in November, but I don't know the date. Marianne, March. Irma, she's a Walton.	32:22
Chris Stewart	Marianne Walton?	32:24
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm.	32:26
Chris Stewart	Ima, I-M-A?	32:26
Erma Cofield Boone	I-R-M-A. Lee, she's got an Lee in her name, but she's a Cofield.	32:26
Chris Stewart	You're an Erma and she's an Irma. What's her last name?	32:29
Erma Cofield Boone	Cofield. She's not married, so she's a Cofield. March. Ruth Balser or Bauser, Balser, I read it Balser.	32:31
Chris Stewart	B?	32:46
Erma Cofield Boone	I don't know.	32:46
Chris Stewart	B-A-L-S-E-R? Or B-A-U-S-E-R?	32:57
Erma Cofield Boone	That sounds right.	33:02
Chris Stewart	Okay.	33:02
Erma Cofield Boone	March.	33:02
Chris Stewart	We've got a lot of March babies here.	33:08
Erma Cofield Boone	That's all.	33:09
Chris Stewart	That's the end?	33:12
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm. Are there 13 of us?	33:13
Chris Stewart	I'm counting. Yep. What were you in the birth order?	33:14
Erma Cofield Boone	I was third.	33:23
Chris Stewart	Okay. Children?	33:29
Erma Cofield Boone	William.	33:32
Chris Stewart	When was he born?	33:43
Erma Cofield Boone	He was 40 yesterday, so 1953. Do you want the deceased too?	33:43
Chris Stewart	Mm-hmm.	33:43
Erma Cofield Boone	Ellen.	33:43
Chris Stewart	Ellen?	33:43
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh, June 26th.	33:43
Chris Stewart	What year?	33:43
Erma Cofield Boone	'54.	33:44
Chris Stewart	When did she die?	33:44
Erma Cofield Boone	December '72.	33:44
Chris Stewart	Where were your children born?	34:14
Erma Cofield Boone	He was born in, is that '53 or '50?	34:20
Chris Stewart	You said he was 40 years old?	34:28
Erma Cofield Boone	Yes, ma'am. He was born in Hertford County. She was born in Bertie County. Shirley.	34:30
Chris Stewart	Shirley?	34:49
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm.	34:49
Chris Stewart	Married name?	34:49
Erma Cofield Boone	Stokes, S-T-O-K-E-S. October the 8th, '55.	34:49
Chris Stewart	You were a baby machine, too.	34:49
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh, that's right. Melvin, July the 6th, '57. That's all.	35:04
Chris Stewart	Were the rest of your kids born in Bertie County?	35:08
Erma Cofield Boone	Shirley was born in Chowan County. He was born in Bertie.	35:08
Chris Stewart	Do you have any grandchildren?	35:08
Erma Cofield Boone	Seven.	35:08
Chris Stewart	No falling asleep yet.	35:49
Gracie Valentine	Oh, I'm not going to sleep.	35:51
Chris Stewart	Okay, now we want your residential history, so the major places that were most important to you, where you lived.	35:52
Gracie Valentine	Most important? Are you talking about me, my own home.	36:02
Chris Stewart	And the address is Route—?	36:08
Gracie Valentine	Route 1575.	36:09
Chris Stewart	All right. Were there any places before that?	36:10
Gracie Valentine	Yeah. When I got married, I was living in Bertie County in Colerain, then when we separated and came home to mom and dad's, I came to [indistinct 00:36:34].	36:24
Chris Stewart	So—?	36:37
Gracie Valentine	We've been around. I went from one county to another and across the state.	36:43
Chris Stewart	So let's work backwards from your house. Okay? Where were you at before then?	36:48
Gracie Valentine	Right across the ditch from where I'm at now.	36:53
Chris Stewart	Okay, so you were very close. What about before then?	36:57
Gracie Valentine	Bertie, Hertford, Bertie.	37:00
Chris Stewart	Back and forth and back and forth.	37:13
Gracie Valentine	Across the line. I think that's it.	37:15
Chris Stewart	Okay, how long were you in—	37:23
Gracie Valentine	Bertie County?	37:27
Chris Stewart	At the beginning?	37:28
Gracie Valentine	This was probably when I was six. From Colerain to where I was from, that's the other place. When I left, that was before I was 22. I left Bertie when I was 10.	37:34
Chris Stewart	Okay, then you were in Hertford County.	37:55
Gracie Valentine	For the rest of my life, for the rest of the time.	38:00
Chris Stewart	I have you have in Bertie County.	38:03
Gracie Valentine	Uh-huh, but I didn't stay there for too long.	38:04
Erma Cofield Boone	She's in Bertie, so she so moved many times in Bertie.	38:05
Gracie Valentine	I was still in Bertie.	38:05
Chris Stewart	I know, but I have Bertie, then Hertford then Bertie.	38:12
Gracie Valentine	I was born in Bertie. When we moved from Colerain, we were still in Bertie.	38:18
Chris Stewart	Right.	38:19
Gracie Valentine	Then when I left Bertie, I came to Hertford, and from Hertford back in to Bertie County again.	38:21
Chris Stewart	How long were you in Hertford before you went into Bertie?	38:27
Gracie Valentine	[indistinct 00:38:34].	38:29
Chris Stewart	How old were you?	38:35
Gracie Valentine	I was 22.	38:36
Chris Stewart	When you left Hertford County?	38:38
Gracie Valentine	When I left Bertie County the first time, from Colerain to Trip, that was still Bertie.	38:39
Chris Stewart	Right, right.	38:45
Gracie Valentine	So then at the age of 22, I left and came to Hertford County, and then we moved to Bertie for one year.	38:47
Chris Stewart	Okay.	38:57
Gracie Valentine	I've been in Hertford County ever since.	38:58
Chris Stewart	Okay. Now we want school history. What was the first school you went to?	39:10
Gracie Valentine	Colerain Elementary School. That was in Bertie.	39:13
Chris Stewart	Was that grades one through eight?	39:23
Gracie Valentine	Mm-hmm, yeah. I just went to the first grade in Bertie Elementary School. Then we moved to Falls Cross and I went to Powellsville School.	39:31
Chris Stewart	What was the name of the school?	39:40
Gracie Valentine	Powellsville.	39:44
Lola Whitaker Williams	CG White.	39:44
Gracie Valentine	CG White, yeah.	39:44
Lola Whitaker Williams	CG White.	39:44
Gracie Valentine	CG White High School.	39:46
Chris Stewart	That was from grades what to what?	39:49
Gracie Valentine	From grade seven to 10th.	39:51
Chris Stewart	And where was that located? Is that still in Bertie.	39:54
Gracie Valentine	That's in Bertie, but now at Powellsville.	39:56
Chris Stewart	Powellsville?	39:58
Lola Whitaker Williams	Powellsville, P-O-W-E-L-L-S-V-I-L-L-E.	40:02
Chris Stewart	Where exactly is that?	40:07
Gracie Valentine	If you're going from Ahoskie.	40:08
Chris Stewart	On Highway 42, okay. That was through the 10th grade. Okay, now, your work history.	40:13
Gracie Valentine	I can help you out on that.	40:21
Chris Stewart	We're asking questions here.	40:22
Gracie Valentine	Okay. I worked on a farm. All the towns that I was in, Bertie and a few years in Hertford, but it was in my first public job, was Sessons Packing company.	40:23
Chris Stewart	Farming until what year?	40:41
Gracie Valentine	'76.	40:42
Chris Stewart	Did you always work on— Were you always cropping?	40:50
Gracie Valentine	Mm-hmm.	40:58
Chris Stewart	So you're working for various—?	40:59
Gracie Valentine	Yes, when I with the kids' father, then I went to Bertie and we were farmers. That broke up in '65.	41:01
Chris Stewart	Then you went to Sessons?	41:13
Gracie Valentine	Sessons Packing Company.	41:14
Chris Stewart	Is this any relationship to—?	41:19
Gracie Valentine	To my kids, yes. First with the father.	41:20
Chris Stewart	What did you do there?	41:26
Gracie Valentine	Packing, everything. I cut up meat and sausage, wrapped meat for the freezer, wrapped meat for customers.	41:29
Chris Stewart	How long did you work there?	41:39
Gracie Valentine	I was there maybe a year	41:40
Lola Whitaker Williams	It was two years.	41:40
Gracie Valentine	Maybe two years.	41:41
Chris Stewart	Then—	41:41
Gracie Valentine	I went to Perdue in June of '76.	41:54
Chris Stewart	You went to Perdue?	41:54
Gracie Valentine	June of '76.	41:54
Chris Stewart	Okay. I have that you were farming until '76, and then '76 to '78, you were at Sessons Packing. Did you stop farming earlier?	42:03
Gracie Valentine	Okay, I worked, during the time, I went to work at Sessons before '76.	42:18
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:18
Gracie Valentine	That had to be about two years before I went to Perdue because I worked there and worked on the farm at the same time.	42:18
Chris Stewart	Okay, okay. Got it, got it. You started there in 1976 and you worked until?	42:26
Gracie Valentine	Okay, I was at Perdue until '80.	42:33
Chris Stewart	What did you say, your job title?	42:33
Gracie Valentine	Oh, when I first went there, I was an oil sack cutter.	42:33
Lola Whitaker Williams	We had some weird names at Perdue.	42:33
Chris Stewart	Then what?	42:33
Gracie Valentine	Okay, I went from an oil sack to a stacker, from that to a venter, V-E-N-T-E-R. That was it, I stayed a venter until my last day.	42:34
Chris Stewart	Okay.	42:35
Gracie Valentine	[indistinct 00:42:35].	42:35
Chris Stewart	Okay, okay.	42:35
Gracie Valentine	I stopped in '80. I went back in '82.	42:35
Chris Stewart	To Perdue?	42:35
Gracie Valentine	'81 or '82 and I stayed until '89, May of '89.	42:35
Chris Stewart	Doing?	42:35
Gracie Valentine	The same thing, basically the same.	42:35
Chris Stewart	Then you were done?	42:35
Gracie Valentine	That was it.	42:35
Chris Stewart	With Perdue.	42:35
Gracie Valentine	Yes, in '89.	42:35
Chris Stewart	Okay. Your turn, residential history? Let me make sure I have the right one here, yes. First?	42:35
Lola Whitaker Williams	Did you get through with that?	42:40
Chris Stewart	No, I just want to get hers over there, so I don't mess hers up. Okay? Residential history, the most important places that you feel you've lived, starting from the earliest to now?	43:56
Erma Cofield Boone	Merry Hill.	44:12
Chris Stewart	That's in Bertie County?	44:19
Erma Cofield Boone	Uh-huh.	44:20
Chris Stewart	That's from until when? How old were you?	44:24
Erma Cofield Boone	Let me see. I was born and we stayed there, we left there— Well, I'll say I lived in Bertie most all of my life. I stayed in Hertford County about two years. From there on, I went to Boston and I stayed there about a year and right back to Bertie.	44:28
Chris Stewart	So you were at Bertie and then you went to Hertford?	44:50
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm.	44:54
Chris Stewart	Then Boston.	44:54
Erma Cofield Boone	Then Boston and back to Bertie.	44:58
Chris Stewart	Back to Bertie.	45:04
Erma Cofield Boone	That's where I'm at now.	45:07
Chris Stewart	Okay. Now how old were you when you first left Bertie County and went to Hertford County? Do you recall? In 1951?	45:11
Erma Cofield Boone	Mm-hmm.	45:33
Chris Stewart	Then how long did you stay in Hertford County?	45:38
Erma Cofield Boone	It's been so long, I can't remember. I was in Boston in '58 and I left Boston and came back home, that was '59.	45:47
Chris Stewart	Boston, 1958, so you must have left earlier than that.	46:28
Erma Cofield Boone	I left Bertie— That was when I was born in Bertie, I left Bertie.	46:39
Chris Stewart	You were in Hertford County until?	46:41
Erma Cofield Boone	Let me get this stuff together, I've got to think, it's been so long. When I had Marianne, I was in Bertie County. Then I left Bertie—	46:47

Item Info

Title:

Lola Williams (primary interviewee), Erma Boone, and Gracie Valentine interview recording, 1993 June 28

Date:

June 28, 1993

Creator:

Contributor:

Stewart, Chris M.

Description:

Name: Lola Whitaker Williams; Date of birth: 1939-12-04; Place of birth: Northamton Co., NC; Occupation(s): unknown; Residence: Tillery, NC
Informant ID: 186; Informant ID: 187; Informant ID: 188; Interviewed by: Chris Stewart.

Occupation:

Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 439
cc13af16-a297-45c6-a96f-4abec883082c
behindtheveil
btvnc04045
ark:/87924/r4qz26x9x
a5bc7309-fad8-4c81-b045-df2641465e8f

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Lola Williams (primary interviewee), Erma Boone, and Gracie Valentine interview recording, 1993 June 28

Transcript

Item Info

1. Lola Williams, Grace Valentine and Erma Boone administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Lola Williams (primary interviewee), Erma Boone, and Gracie Valentine interview recording, 1993 June 28

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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