Emeler Campbell interview recording, 1993 August 03
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Karen Ferguson | —telling me a little bit about the community in which you grew up and the people you grew up with? | 0:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, the community that I grew up in, I think it was pretty nice. Of course, people had their differences, but in those days it didn't really surface. | 0:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 0:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Everybody, I don't know, they seemed to love everybody until a certain point. | 0:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 0:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Then if something was to happen, they were soon made up. If they liked you, they liked you, if they didn't, you would know it and you would know how to not bother those people— | 0:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 0:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —but as a way, the community was real nice. | 0:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What community was this where you grew up? | 0:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Vanceboro community. Craven County. | 0:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Sorry, what was it called? Rasper or the— | 0:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Vanceboro. | 0:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, Vanceboro, okay. | 0:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. Okay. | 0:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Now did you grow up on a farm? | 0:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I grew up on a farm. | 0:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your family own their own farm? | 1:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, and his parents owned it, so he inherited it. It was a plantation so it was handed down to him. | 1:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So this was your father's land? | 1:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 1:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Who else did you grow up with in your family? | 1:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Five sisters and four brothers. | 1:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 1:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | There was 10 of us. | 1:24 |
Karen Ferguson | 10 of you? | 1:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, Mother and Father, of course, my grandmother lived with me for a while too. | 1:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Did your parents raise any other children? | 1:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really, like adopting, but most of the grandchildren were always that at time. Always. | 1:33 |
Karen Ferguson | What do remember about your grandparents? Do you know anything about where they came from, and—? | 1:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My grandmother, no, but my grandfather, he was from England. | 1:51 |
Karen Ferguson | He was from England? | 1:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 1:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 1:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My grandpa. | 1:57 |
Karen Ferguson | And he was White? Was he White? | 1:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 1:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Very interesting. Okay. So were they married, your grandmother? Okay. | 2:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I don't— | 2:05 |
Karen Ferguson | She was a slave, right? | 2:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —think so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 2:05 |
Karen Ferguson | So he was the slaveowner or plantation owner? | 2:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. | 2:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there any acknowledgement by his family that you were related to them? | 2:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 2:16 |
Karen Ferguson | There was? | 2:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 2:17 |
Karen Ferguson | How did your family get their land? | 2:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know, it in the family for so long, evidently they must have bought it when they came over. | 2:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 2:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess they just bought it. | 2:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 2:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because I have seen letters that some left and went to Tennessee and they wrote back and said maybe land is plentiful, maybe 10 or 15 cents an acre. So it was real cheap. | 2:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So this was the White family that came over here. | 2:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 2:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So they passed the land onto your family then or what happened— | 2:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. When the last one of them passed, then it was willed to my daddy. In fact, my daddy had a life estate to it and then it went to his children. | 2:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 3:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So that's made it good. That's how I have my own, thank God. | 3:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Were there many Black landowners in this area when you were growing up? | 3:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I really—yes, there were quite a few. Right. | 3:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 3:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In fact, I believe there were more Black than there were White in this area. The Whites had larger acreage, but the Blacks had small acres. | 3:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. How many acres did your family own? | 3:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 197. | 3:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Was that considered a large farm, or—? | 3:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That, I don't know. I don't know. | 3:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, when you were growing up, did you know White people in this area who you were related to? Was there a White branch of your family in this area? | 3:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really because they didn't really talk about it. | 3:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So did you know people who were related to you but you didn't talk to them? | 4:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I did. | 4:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 4:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes I did. | 4:07 |
Karen Ferguson | So there was no real acknowledgement? | 4:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, no real acknowledgement, only in immediate family now. | 4:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 4:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Now, when my granddaddy's brother, now they acknowledged, of course, I was not born, but they acknowledged my older sisters and brothers. | 4:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. How would they acknowledge her? | 4:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In other words, they would just probably take care of them and just be friendly, just were your family. | 4:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So would they spend Christmas with your family, or would they do that kind of thing? | 4:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But all lived right on the same area, so evidently they did. In fact, my father did most of the cooking for them, so I'm sure that— | 4:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 4:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —they did. | 4:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What kind of crops did you grow on your farm? | 4:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Tobacco and corn. | 4:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have to do work in the fields when you were growing up? | 5:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I did. | 5:10 |
Karen Ferguson | When did you start doing that? | 5:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, really, I don't know. In other words, it wasn't like being going out compelled to work, go at 8:00 or 9:00, we kind of worked like we wanted to. So I guess it depended on what our daddy said, "You go today." Of course, I really didn't work that much in the field because I was one of the younger ones and I really didn't work much in the field. | 5:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. When you did go out to work in the field, what kind of work did you do in tobacco? | 5:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I used to like work in there, well, I used to help plant it in the field. In those days, a person would go along, drop the tobacco plant. Some of them will come behind and put it in the ground. Some of them will come behind and water it. So probably I helped pull the plants. They had a tobacco bed and of course, really I helped do it all because we would usually pull the plants first and then go to the field and plant it. Then, when it was time to harvest, I always helped harvest that. Someone had what they called tied on the stick. It's not convenient like it is now, and so we work at the [indistinct 00:06:27] and it was a fun time too, as well as work time. | 5:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. I was talking to someone else about tying tobacco and she was saying it was a very social time with people. What kinds of things would you do when you tied tobacco? | 6:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, after a certain time in the day, maybe by 10:00 we would have a break, maybe bring watermelons out of the field and have watermelon cuttings. Then sometime we would cure tobacco in a furnace. | 6:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 6:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Then we would bring roasting—well, you may not know what roasting is. | 6:53 |
Karen Ferguson | No, I don't know. What is that? | 6:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But it's corn. | 6:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 6:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We call it roasting ear, bring corn out of the field and then we'll put that in the furnace and roast it. It would be really good, roasted in the shuck. So we maybe have a lemonade, maybe have buckets of lemonade. We would just have fun. | 6:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. When people worked in the fields back then or were doing these other jobs, did they talk while they were working or sing or tell stories or anything? | 7:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, usually on our farm they'd talk, didn't do much singing, but we did talk with one another. Now that was in my day. Now, way back before I came now they said they didn't talk. They were not allowed to talk. | 7:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 7:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But now in slavery time, they say, you probably had heard this, they wasn't allowed to talk, but they could sing— | 7:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 7:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —but they would put what they wanted to say in the songs, and I liked it. I think that they say one song, "There's a great camp meeting," and that mean they were going to meet somewhere tonight. So they had ways of communicating— | 7:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 8:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —back there then. | 8:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Now who told you about that? | 8:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, that was my granddaddy. | 8:12 |
Karen Ferguson | He did? | 8:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 8:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Did he tell you anything else about slavery? | 8:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really. Not really. No more than about how hard you had to work and how you couldn't say anything and had to be careful what you said, but that was about it. Of course, some of the masters wasn't as hard on the slaves as others. Of course, my father, his master was good— | 8:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 8:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They had some free slaves, so which meant they could do like they wanted to. | 8:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. How about your mother's side of the family? Do you know anything about them? | 8:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that much. I know her daddy was an Indian, so I'm kind of messed up, kind of really messed up. | 8:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 9:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So that's about all I know. They were so secretive like. They didn't really want to tell things. Like my granddaddy, he would get up before day mornings if he had to go into town and he would leave before day so people would know that he was going to keep people out of his business. | 9:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. | 9:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We didn't really that know that much about him. | 9:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you know why he was secretive like that. | 9:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. | 9:31 |
Karen Ferguson | No. | 9:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I know, and of course, most of the family that I know that's like that and maybe his heritage, I don't know. | 9:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now this was your mother's father? | 9:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 9:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now did he own land? | 9:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I know of. | 9:51 |
Karen Ferguson | No. So what did he do for a living? Did he— | 9:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | He probably sharecropped— | 9:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. | 9:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —because I heard my mother say when she was growing up, her mother would go to a place and work. So evidently, that's what they did. | 9:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. They lived in Craven County? They were from Craven County? | 10:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know whether they was from Craven County or not. I really don't. | 10:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 10:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But I know I remember they lived here, but I don't know whether they were born here or not. | 10:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now how much the other Black people who were living around you, did they own their own land or were they sharecropping? | 10:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Most I knew owned their land. | 10:30 |
Karen Ferguson | They were on their own land? | 10:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 10:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there a concentration of Black landowners around the place your farm was or was it scattered? | 10:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was kind of scattered. | 10:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Were you close to the farmers who lived close to you, the other families? | 10:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Some, some we were. | 10:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. What would you do for each other? | 10:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, certain people who like we worked together, money was scarce, so we would exchange doing work like we were putting in tobacco. We would go help them and they would come back and help us and work would change, but not money. | 10:57 |
Karen Ferguson | What do you mean by that? | 11:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In other words, I would go help them today and they would come back and help my daddy tomorrow, exchange in work. | 11:15 |
Karen Ferguson | You called that working for change or working [indistinct 00:11:30] | 11:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We just called it helping each other. | 11:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 11:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, we called it swapping work. That's what we called it, swapping. | 11:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Now the people you helped out in this way, did they all own their own land or did you help—how about sharecropping families? Did you ever help them or did they help you? | 11:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, usually just about two families, because we would go help them maybe one or two days a week. Then by that time, they would come back to help us. It was just about— | 11:45 |
Karen Ferguson | They owned their own land, these people? | 11:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. They owned their own land. | 11:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there any difference between sharecropping families and land-owning families? Did you associate with people who sharecropped? | 12:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, we did. | 12:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you as friendly with them as you were with people who owned their own land, or—? | 12:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | To tell the truth, there wasn't too many people friendly with us, just certain people. | 12:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Right. Right. Could you talk about why that was, or—? | 12:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think it was because, and I'm just thinking this— | 12:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 12:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —because my father really owned more than they did. | 12:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 12:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | See, evidently they bought theirs. My father's land was given to them. | 12:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 12:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We could go out and work, my daddy would never take money from us. What we made, we could spend it as we wish. | 12:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 12:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think that was it too, because I used hear people talking about Depression, Depression, how hard it was. Your parents would take your money. I said, "Well, I don't know anything about that because I've never known my daddy to take any of us money. You go work and spend it as you wish. | 12:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 13:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So then I found out, I was about 5 or 6 years old during the Depression. So I think that was it, because of jealousy, because we could eat and buy candy and whatever and they had to give up their money. | 13:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Okay. | 13:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | To wasn't that, I don't know what it could have been, and I have [indistinct 00:13:24] it that's what it was. | 13:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, would other children play with you, would they—? No? | 13:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, just the few that we worked with. | 13:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right | 13:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Just the two families, well, I would say two families? | 13:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. Did you have other relatives who were living close by? | 13:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No— | 13:40 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 13:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —not close, no, because we live on a road alone at the end, of course, now many people live— | 13:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 13:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It's still called the Clark Road. There's just family there and just one White family that live on that road. So we were kind of isolated off from people. | 13:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Did your father ever hire people to help out with fields? | 14:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, because we had plenty children, and then he worked too. Back then in those days, take the horse and plow and the little children could go out and do that, little boys get behind that plow and horse, and so not that much. | 14:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Did he ever work on other people—do any day work or do any other kind of work? | 14:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I've always known him to just work on his farm. | 14:29 |
Karen Ferguson | How about your mother? Did she work? | 14:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Just on the farm. | 14:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Could you describe the house you grew up in? | 14:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, it has four rooms, kitchen built off from it, you had to come outside and go to the kitchen. It had what they called a shed room. I don't know why they had a shed room, not unless it was for—I don't know why they had it. But anyway, you had to go out through the back door to get to the shed room, but yet it was built on the top of the house. In fact, the house is still there. | 14:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 15:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was kind of small for 10 children. | 15:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, you had to share a room, a bedroom with— | 15:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 15:16 |
Karen Ferguson | —with how many of your sisters and brothers? | 15:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, my [indistinct 00:15:21] we had three beds in one room. Four slept in one bed. I can remember I slept in the bed with four. Somehow one of my other sisters, myself, we be sleeping in the middle, so you know how that is, sandwiched between two, but we were happy. We really were. | 15:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, what did you do for privacy? If you wanted to be alone, what did you do, or did you think about that? | 15:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Didn't think about it. I don't think it was in our vocabulary being alone, it was always—and take a bath, you know like some of the girls take a bath? | 15:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 15:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Put water in a wash tub. | 15:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 16:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's how we bathed. | 16:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Now were there any people in the community, any other adults you were close to or who you looked up to or who looked out for you other than your parents? | 16:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, not really. | 16:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What were some times of celebration during the year? When did you have parties and—? | 16:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Christmastime. | 16:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Christmas? Could you tell me what you did at Christmas? | 16:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mostly play, but enjoy what we got for Christmas. I remember cakes and pies. When I was growing up, see we got cakes at Christmastime, Thanksgiving, candy at Christmastime hours. So it was really a joyful time just to get that. | 16:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 16:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So we just play and we would share a lot with each other, but it was real fun. That was the biggest time of the year was Christmas. I can remember that we always got what wanted. My daddy never said no. I remember I told my mama, "I want a doll carriage for Christmas." My mother was more stingy than my daddy, and I kept, "I want a carriage, I want a carriage." Then, when I told my daddy, the carriage came up, but I could never figure why. But see, he would always get what we wanted. | 17:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 17:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So it was Christmastimes were really fun. I'm thinking about the potato pies now, good, good. Then too, really when we put in tobacco, that was fun times too. At dinner time, the people that helped us we would always eat together and we had the best time eating together dinner time. | 17:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, who would do the cooking? | 17:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My mother. | 17:56 |
Karen Ferguson | She would cook for all the people who came over— | 17:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | All the people. | 18:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, would you help out with the cooking then, or did— | 18:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, she usually did all the cooking because the other ones were still be working. | 18:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 18:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So she did all the cooking. | 18:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were there different chores for the sons and the daughters? Did the girls and boys do different kinds of work around the house and the farm? | 18:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | On the farm, they did about the same because if they needed to use the hoes, the boys did it. | 18:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 18:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The only thing different was using the mule, the plows. The boys used to do that, and maybe feeding their cow or their mules and swine. The boys used usually did that. | 18:29 |
Karen Ferguson | How about the adults, the men and women there? What jobs were men's jobs in tobacco and which ones were women's jobs when you were working in tobacco? | 18:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The men's job was to prime tobacco, just like the rest, like the boys did. They worked right along with the boys. | 18:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 19:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The women and girls did the same thing. | 19:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember there being any people who were particularly good farmers, particularly good at priming the tobacco or at curing it or tying it? | 19:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, most everybody that I knew was good at tending it, but they were some better than others tying it. Now there were some that could really tie, but I was never a good tier. | 19:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Can you remember anyone in particular who was good at tying? | 19:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. I had a sister that was good and then I had a friend, her name was Eva Bland. She could really tie right, fastest, two or three could handle it too. | 19:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Why do you think they were so good at it? | 19:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. They were just good, just fast workers, I guess. Just, I don't know. | 19:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember there being any kind of—oh, nevermind. | 19:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Ask it. | 20:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Nope. Well, I was wondering if you remember any, I don't know exactly how to phrase it, but do you remember there being ever any stories told about people who were particularly good at doing jobs on the farms? I've heard a lot about cotton picking, for example, women who were extraordinary pickers who could pick 300 pounds in a day. Do you remember people ever talking about stories about people who could do that? | 20:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I heard about them picking. | 20:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 20:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In fact, my grandmother could pick more than I could. | 20:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. So you picked some cotton too? | 20:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | One day, my father tended one year and we did such a sorry job picking it, he didn't tend it anymore— | 20:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 20:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —picked all day long, I don't think I picked 12 pounds. But some people, really I hear of some people picking two and 300 pounds per day. | 20:52 |
Karen Ferguson | How could that be? How could they pick so much? You don't know? | 21:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They probably just picked faster, just got over more ground. Evidently, that was it. | 21:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Were there ever similar tales told about people doing work in tobacco or it was—about people could do that much or—? | 21:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Just like some people could get in a, what they call a barn of tobacco earlier, then there were some people probably can put in four or 500 sticks. That's what we call the barn and maybe half-a-day and some it would take all day. | 21:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Would they be proud of that achievement? Was that something to be proud of in those days? | 21:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | At a half a day, but then most people be proud they got 500 sticks all day, but it wasn't usual to get to where it wasn't— | 21:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Would other people admire them for that skill? | 21:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, really it wasn't like it is now. You did it and people would talk about it and be happy, but it wasn't like it is now where you can do this and you can do that. | 21:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 22:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We didn't ever criticize and we didn't ever compare. | 22:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Now you think your father was a good farmer? Was he considered a good farmer? | 22:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess he was. | 22:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. | 22:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess he was, always had pretty tobacco, cured tobacco. He pretty tobacco that he cured. Very seldom, what he'd call messed up a barn, it was whether and had to throw half of it away and half of it would be trash. It would always be real good. | 22:19 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of things did you do for fun with your sisters and brothers? What games did you play and what— | 22:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, we played hopscotch and hot and switches and Sally Go Round the Sunshine and bean bags, hopscotch, I guess that was about it; tag, baseball, there was a lot of, we played baseball— | 22:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, now who did you play baseball with? | 23:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | See [indistinct 00:23:14] we'd cheer and of course, it wasn't a game like we have now. Maybe two or three would be just playing. They would hit the ball and then run. | 23:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. | 23:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It wasn't really a game, but we called it baseball. | 23:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you have friends? Did you have many friends around where you lived? No? | 23:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 23:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you ever play with White children in the area? | 23:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, but we worked with them and at lunchtime we always be friendly, we never played. | 23:38 |
Karen Ferguson | So when you worked with them, were these some of the people that you swapped work with? No. | 23:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 23:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So when— | 23:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We usually swapped with Blacks. | 23:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. So when would you work with White families? Would you go out for the day to work on farms? | 23:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 24:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 24:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, we did chopping, but yes, we would go out and work on the farms occasionally. | 24:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, so White children in this area worked in the farm, in the fields? | 24:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 24:14 |
Karen Ferguson | And the White farmers as well would be working on them? | 24:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 24:17 |
Karen Ferguson | What would happen at lunchtime? Would you be fed? | 24:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We would usually go home— | 24:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 24:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —or either most of the time, if we didn't go home, my parents would send us something. The ones that wasn't working, they would send us something to eat. | 24:26 |
Karen Ferguson | So it was mainly the children who went out and worked out. | 24:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 24:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 24:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 24:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Your parents didn't— | 24:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 24:44 |
Karen Ferguson | —really do that? | 24:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 24:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember a particularly happy time during your childhood? | 24:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | To tell you the truth, most all the times were happy. | 24:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 24:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | To me, you most all happy times. | 24:58 |
Karen Ferguson | How about sad times, time that you weren't so—you remember any times of hardship or of real sadness in your childhood? | 25:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Never. | 25:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 25:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Never seen any hardships, seen more hardships since I've been grown and married than I had when I was a child. | 25:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, so you remember it as a happy time. | 25:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Happy time for me, yes, very happy. | 25:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Could you tell me a little bit about your parents? What kind of people they were and— | 25:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, they was real good. My mother was a Christian. My daddy was not until later years, but he was not bad. You know what I mean? He had the heart of a Christian, but he did not attend church like my mother did. But he'd never tried to hinder her. He would always make it convenient for her to get to church, for us to go to church. But they were real good. My father's named Noah Clark. Ask anybody in Vanceboro here, "Did you know Noah Clark?" "Yes." "What kind of person?" "Oh, he was a good person." | 25:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. | 26:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't think I've known but one person to say that he was not a good person, out all the people that I've known that was one of his brother-in-laws. | 26:08 |
Karen Ferguson | So you didn't get along too well with him? | 26:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, yes. They didn't have any confusion or worries as far as I know, but evidently that was his dark secret about my dad. My father was real good. I'll tell you how good he was that the sheriffs in Carven County would trust him. I said my daddy was the ones that they would do when they get ready to drink the moonshine liquor, they would go to my daddy and they would sit out around the tobacco barn. They never did it at the house, but they would go around to the tobacco barn. That's where they would go to drink the moonshine liquor. | 26:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So this was the sheriff? | 26:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sheriff. | 26:54 |
Karen Ferguson | So the police—all the other officers would come and— | 26:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, just the sheriff. | 27:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, just the sheriff? | 27:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 27:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Would he drink it with your daddy? | 27:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, drink it with my daddy. Back then, in those days too, they would make moonshine liquor and on my daddy's farm, not on the farm, but the that land he had, they had a stream near there. A lot of moonshine liquor would be made near there. So sometime the revenue officers will find the still and the sheriff would come up and say, "The revenue officers have found the still. Move it, move it." I reckon those revenue officers wondered how they would always be a jump ahead, but the sheriff would always warn them that it was found. | 27:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right, because he was drinking it too. | 27:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, he was drinking it too. | 27:45 |
Karen Ferguson | So everybody was drinking moonshine liquor then. Did your father ever make any? Yeah. | 27:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In a gallon. | 27:55 |
Karen Ferguson | I don't know, how do you make it? Do you take your— | 27:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, they have corn, sugar, malt, and they'd put it in a barrel. I did say meal, right? | 28:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me? | 28:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I said meal, right? | 28:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 28:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | All right. You put that in the barrel and that it ferment. Then, when it'd fermented, they put it in a kiln and they boiled it, and the steam that comes from it will go into something a round, they called it a worm? It was a copper something that was core, and it'd go through that. Then the steam will come out liquid, which would be whiskey. | 28:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Do you remember anybody ever getting hurt like sick, or —? | 28:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Never. | 28:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Never? Okay. | 28:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No | 28:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there people in the community who were considered better moonshine makers than others, or—? | 28:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know because I didn't ever hear about anyone else. I don't know. | 28:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did your mother approve of your daddy making this? | 28:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I never heard her say anything about it. | 29:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So it was not seen as bad to do this or anything— | 29:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, no, not unless you got caught. | 29:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 29:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess everybody was doing it. I guess that was a easy way, not an easy way, but another way to get money. | 29:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 29:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So it wasn't bad. | 29:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Right. Now, when they sold moonshine, where did they drink it? Did they buy bottles and take them away, or did they— | 29:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, they'd usually sell it by the gallons— | 29:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 29:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They would come to take it away. | 29:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Where some of the recreation places in this area? Were there any juke- joints or anything like that? | 29:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They had jukejoints in the—well, not along when I was coming up. When I was grown, there was juke joints, but not as frequent as they are now. Maybe one in Vanceboro and one in Fort Barnwell right now. | 29:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were there places you weren't allowed to go as a child, your parents told you you couldn't go to. | 30:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Juke-joints. | 30:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Juke-joints. | 30:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Juke-joints and that was about the only place. | 30:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Why do you think they wouldn't let you do that? | 30:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well see, there was a lot of dancing and most everything went on in the juke-joint— | 30:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Right. Did you ever— | 30:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Fighting— | 30:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you ever go? | 30:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Slip occasionally. Not that often, but occasionally. | 30:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, you said your mother was a little stricter than your father. Who was the boss at home? | 30:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My daddy was, but they were together. | 30:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 30:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She knew what he didn't like, and so she just went along with it, I guess, whatever he wanted to do, whether she liked it or not— | 30:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 31:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | He did it and she didn't say anything. | 31:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think that was typical of most families in your area? | 31:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I really don't know. I really don't. | 31:10 |
Karen Ferguson | How about the money? Who took care of the money in your family? | 31:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My mom. | 31:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 31:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because my dad kept what he wanted to spend. He kept what he wanted and then my mom kept the rest. | 31:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. How about disciplining? Who disciplined you when you were growing up? | 31:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My mom, but we knew though. That if we didn't obey her then my dad would take control, and we didn't want that. That, we didn't want. | 31:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 31:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I know if my mama would say anything to us, all my daddy had to do was just look. We knew that we had better do what she says. | 31:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember ever feeling that you were disciplined unfairly when you were grown up growing up? | 32:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I didn't, but I guess some of the other children did because I wasn't really that bad. But some of the other children, if one do something wrong, my mama whipped both of them. She wouldn't say who was in fault or whatever, both would get the whipping. So I guess they felt like they was treated wrong, the one that didn't do anything. | 32:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. How were you expected to act in front of adults when you were growing up? | 32:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Be seen and not heard. | 32:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me? | 32:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Be seen and not heard. | 32:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 32:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We'd be real quiet. Most of time, if they had company, we didn't have rooms like to do now yet, especially at nighttime everybody would be in the same room. But you just sit there and, of course we were so shy I remember sometime we would hide when we had company. Now if it was in the daytime, we never sat around. We would always be somewhere playing or whatever. | 32:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Now, did you go to town very much when you were growing up? | 33:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, we did. In other words, not into New Bern, not that much. But in Vanceboro, now, we would come into Vanceboro Saturday, every Saturday and my dad would always bring us— | 33:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 33:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —on a mule and cart. Certain times of the year now, we would go into town on special occasions. He would always take us to the circus, always, we looked forward. Sometime I think about, "Well, how did he handle all these children?" But he did, he carry all of us to town. | 33:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that in New Bern, or was that— | 33:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | New Bern. | 33:45 |
Karen Ferguson | —in Vanceboro? | 33:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | New Bern. | 33:45 |
Karen Ferguson | So you went to New Bern on a special occasions then? | 33:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 33:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your mother go to town very much? | 33:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Never. | 33:56 |
Karen Ferguson | No, never? | 33:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, always go with my daddy. | 33:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So she didn't do any of the shopping for groceries? | 33:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, there wasn't. | 34:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember any women doing grocery shopping? | 34:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. Mm-hmm. | 34:08 |
Karen Ferguson | What were some of the gathering places in Vanceboro for Black people? Where would people get together, or just in your section. Where did people get together to talk? | 34:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Only at talking they did was at church. | 34:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. So people didn't gather in front of a store or anything like that to talk? | 34:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I don't remember. No, they didn't. | 34:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 35:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Maybe say if you're coming to Vanceboro or whatever, and maybe you meet someone on the road or you passed someone's home that you knew they may would stop and talk and keep going, but not a gathering place. | 35:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What were some of the things that men did together when you were growing up? What kinds of things did they do together without women? | 35:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know, not unless they were getting together drinking. | 35:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 35:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's about the only thing I can think of. | 35:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, were there any lodges or Masonic lodges or anything like that when you were growing up? | 35:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | There was, but my daddy did not belong, so I don't remember anything about that, but they were some. Now my mother did. | 35:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 35:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She belonged to some. | 35:45 |
Karen Ferguson | What did she belong to? | 35:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She belonged to what they called the Roost. They called it a secret order, a lodge. It was a lodge. | 35:48 |
Karen Ferguson | What was it called? I'm sorry. | 35:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They called it the Roost Orders, but they always said, well, it's a secret order. | 35:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 36:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In other words, if I didn't belong, they did not talk about it with me. | 36:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 36:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So that's why they called it secret, only those that belonged there would talk about it. | 36:10 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there many of these secret organizations when you were coming up? | 36:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really. I remember in Vanceboro what they call the Roosts and the Stars. I remember two. | 36:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Why do you think people joined these organizations? | 36:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, it's supposed to have been a religious organization. If someone was to die, the organization would give so much on their burial or if someone gets sick, they would use to give food. | 36:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 36:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Things like that. | 36:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there any other kinds of organizations like that where people would help each other out, like burial associations or anything like that? Do you remember? | 36:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. No. The burial association would be something you joined, but you have to pay just like you pay insurance. | 36:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Do you remember there being burial associations? | 37:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 37:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 37:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But you had to take it on out with the undertaker. | 37:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. Okay. Now. You said your mother was a very religious— | 37:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 37:17 |
Karen Ferguson | —person? | 37:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 37:18 |
Karen Ferguson | What church did you attend? | 37:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She went to St. Peter—it was a Free Will Baptist church. | 37:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. That's the one you went to as well? | 37:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 37:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Now could you tell me a little bit about the role of the church in your life and in the life of the community? | 37:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Like what? | 37:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, I don't know. Well, do you continue to go to church? | 37:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 37:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Are you going to church? | 37:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I continue. | 37:41 |
Karen Ferguson | What has the church meant to you in your life do you think? How has it helped you? How has your faith and your belonging to a church helped you in your life, do you think? | 37:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's a good question, much as I go, but really it cause me to have more—I can't put it into words, but I guess give more self-esteem. It helps to be in unity with other people and rely on other people to converse with them and tell them about my problems, so it's kind of a unity. | 38:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 38:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Then sometimes where you discuss your problems and someone you can really discuss your problems with, really. | 38:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. How did it help your self-esteem when you were a young person? | 38:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Just because I guess I felt good about being in church when someone else wasn't, I guess. I just felt like, "I'm going to church, I'm this and I'm not on the street, and I feel good about myself." | 38:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. Were you involved in any organizations at church when you were a girl? | 38:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. I sang in the choir. I taught Sunday school and when they had programs, I always participated in programs. | 39:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What would you do in you do in the programs? What would be your role in that? | 39:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mostly just say a speech or maybe sing in a group. | 39:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Do you remember your baptism? | 39:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Thinking I was baptized in a creek, could you imagine? As I remember. | 39:37 |
Karen Ferguson | How old were you? | 39:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | About 10. | 39:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that the age that most children usually joined the church? | 39:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, some was older, most was older. | 39:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember being frightened during your baptism? | 39:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 40:01 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 40:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I was not frightened at all. Okay. | 40:01 |
Karen Ferguson | No. Were there many people who attended baptisms? | 40:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. In those days there were. Baptism, and then the crowd goes, most all the church members, and not much different from what it is—I don't know about you, but the way we are baptized, today it's more or less fun things to me. It's not serious. | 40:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 40:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But back then it was a serious time. | 40:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. How so? How was it serious? | 40:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was like a worship service. | 40:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 40:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | People go and sing with the spirit and no laughing and giggling. | 40:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 40:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was sincere. Today, people go to the pool and they grin and— | 40:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. | 40:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah. I mean so much different. | 40:48 |
Karen Ferguson | So was it a very important time in your life? | 40:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 40:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. When you had the baptisms, did anybody other than the people in your church's congregation attend it? | 40:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, they did. | 41:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Who else came? | 41:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, maybe from our neighboring churches. | 41:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Did White people ever come to watch it? | 41:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. No. | 41:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What were some other important times at church during the year? | 41:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Once a year, we celebrate what we call Children's Day. | 41:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 41:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The little children just put on programs and talk and sing. Then we'll serve lemonade. That was the time of the year that we always get our new clothes, new shoes. | 41:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 41:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 41:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember ever a special Children's Day? Is there one that sticks out in your mind? | 41:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really. One thing about what really stick out in my mind was the lemonade, seemed like it was the best. Sometime I think about it now, "If I could just get some lemonade like that." It was the best. They would make it in barrels. They didn't make it in containers or jars. They'd have a big old barrel about so tall and where we could stand around and drink and drink and drink. | 41:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Do you ever remember the minister ever preaching about equality or about the equality of the races or talking about the situation of Black people in the area? No? | 42:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not on the race, not on the race to him, but he'd preach about everybody's equal and God created everybody and God loves everybody and like that. But not Whites love Blacks, Blacks love Whites like that. Because as a whole, we realized that we all belong to the Lord and everybody is sisters and brothers and the Lord, so not really, not race. | 42:55 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you think that the church helped Black people get along through some of the rough times that people experienced during the age of segregation? Do you think that it played a role in helping people get by and— | 43:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, with my experience, I don't think so because I think it's the individual, it's how the individual feel themselves. I think that's what makes the difference, because you can go to church and the preacher can tell you so-and-so, but you have to be motivated to do those things yourself. | 43:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Right. Right. How much contact did you have with White people when you were young, when you were living at home? | 44:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I had right much, had more contact with Whites than I did with Blacks. | 44:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh really? Okay. How so—who did you have contact with? | 44:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Say, the next door neighbors, not next door neighbors, but most of the people that we were worked for. | 44:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Okay. | 44:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And say the people that my father traded with, or always go to the store. | 44:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 44:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My father had more White friends than he did Black. | 44:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. What would he do with his White friends? | 44:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, they'd just talk and a lot of time they would stop by to visit him. | 44:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 44:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I've known several times he'd had White friends that stop by and they would eat lunch with him, and so he had a real good relationship with the Whites. | 44:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Now when they came over for lunch, would everybody sit at the table together? | 45:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 45:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now could he do the same thing in their houses, do you think? | 45:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I've never known him to— | 45:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 45:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Never known him to. | 45:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Who were some of these White people who had good relations with? Do you remember what they did for a living or— | 45:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Farmed. | 45:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Farmers? | 45:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, and they were merchants in Vanceboro, but most were farmers. | 45:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Did he have credit accounts with them? | 45:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 45:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, how would they help him out? How would they help your father out? | 45:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess in whatever way he might would ask. | 45:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. | 45:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I remember one time he was about to lose some land, and somebody tricked him into signing papers. So one of his White friends stepped in, and I don't know what he did so he could save it. | 45:51 |
Karen Ferguson | How was he tricked? Do you know? | 46:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think it was something like he was selling timber and you know like they signed, for the sale of the timber, he had signed, get rid of the land. | 46:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Was that something that happened often that Black owners were— | 46:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Saying he thought he was signing for his tobacco allotment, signed his tobacco allotment out and he was signing and got rid of his land. So I know those two occasion, I don't know nobody anymore on— | 0:01 |
Karen Ferguson | When that kind of thing happened, what could a Black farmer do to get the land back or to help himself in that—? | 0:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, this particular man I'm talking about, he didn't get his back. | 0:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 0:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | See, like my father, see this White man came to his rescue. | 0:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 0:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And then he got his back. | 0:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember White people in this area ever not liking the fact that your father owned so much land and that he was prosperous? | 0:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I know of. | 0:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 0:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I remember. | 0:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember any other White people not liking the fact that Black people owned land or—? | 0:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I know of. No. | 0:56 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. And how about when you would go to Vanceboro, would people treat your father with respect? White people? | 1:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, they did. | 1:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? Okay. And how about your mother? Do you ever remember her being treated with disrespect by any Whites? | 1:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I know of, but just like I said, she was a home person, but not that I know of. | 1:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. Now, what were the signs of segregation in Vanceboro? Were there places that Blacks could not go? | 1:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 1:33 |
Karen Ferguson | What places were those? | 1:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, well, they didn't have cafés. Well, they could go to—one man did. He really didn't, they would let them go through the back though. | 1:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 1:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But yet when the people that would let Whites, I mean Blacks, go and some of the Whites didn't like them and so they had to be real careful. | 1:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 1:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So I don't know. They had to be careful because how they treated Black, because lots of the Whites, they really didn't hate the Blacks, but yet if they showed—shoot. | 2:01 |
Karen Ferguson | That's okay. | 2:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yet if they showed their feelings towards the Blacks, it would cause some of the Whites to dislike you. | 2:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, so if these people who are sympathetic towards Blacks, if they showed that they liked them too much, they could get in trouble? | 2:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 2:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you remember that ever happening? | 2:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I heard it, but I won't say that because see that's a rumor, I don't know and so I'm afraid to say about that. | 2:33 |
Karen Ferguson | All right, that's fine. | 2:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And of course, its vice versa. If the Blacks knew, didn't like stuff, I liked Whites, see they wouldn't like me. Of course, it didn't really matter with me whether they liked me or not. So the feelings and vice versa. | 2:45 |
Karen Ferguson | So do you think that that was part of the problem with your family? | 2:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. I'm most sure it was. | 3:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 3:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because the Blacks would be called names as well as anything else, part of the Blacks. | 3:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Okay. Now, do you remember any Black people being put in jail for minor things or things that they really hadn't done or anything like that when you were growing up? No? | 3:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. I don't remember. | 3:29 |
Karen Ferguson | What about the Ku Klux Klan? Was there a Ku Klux plan in this area? | 3:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. | 3:39 |
Karen Ferguson | What kinds of things do you remember them doing? | 3:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, burn churches and burn crosses. But the thing about it now, they definitely did bother us, my family. And my family, so my sister was one of the first ones to integrate in their school, but they always bothered one that they knew hated them. | 3:42 |
Karen Ferguson | They knew hated them? Okay. Right. | 4:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So I say, well, maybe not. I don't know. Evidently they did, but I said so. But they didn't ever bother in their lifetimes. | 4:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Did they ever kill anyone? | 4:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that I know of. | 4:13 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 4:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not in this area. Not that I know of. | 4:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there other places in Craven County that it was more active, do you think? | 4:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not by killing, but they were placed in Craven County. Say, they were burning churches and burning crosses. | 4:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, okay. Was there ever a church burned in this area? | 4:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not burned, but—not burned. | 4:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Were there crosses burned? | 4:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 4:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Now why do you think they targeted those places? | 4:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Just thinking, like I said, I think it's because, well, there's people that they knew that didn't like them. | 4:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, how would they know that? What kinds of things would they be doing so that they would know that they didn't like them? | 4:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because all Ku Klux Klansmen, they don't hate White people. I'm sure you know that. | 5:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me, they—? | 5:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I said, all Klansmen do not hate Black people. | 5:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, they don't? | 5:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, they don't. There's some in it. You already know this without me telling you. | 5:11 |
Karen Ferguson | No, I don't. I don't. | 5:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | There's some in it because they're afraid not to be in it. | 5:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Yeah. | 5:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And so them just in it because they're not afraid to be in it. See, they really don't hate them that much because there was one man that I knew joined it and after he got in it, he found out that he didn't really want to be in it. | 5:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 5:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And then I heard another family say that they was kind of almost forced to join it, but they did not. But yet they were afraid, just like we would be. They were going to burn them out or burn crosses out. | 5:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 5:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I can remember there was a Klansman, lived near me. Not where I live now, but near me. He ran a store and he was—well, I don't know it, but I heard he was one of the head leaders. And I said, "Oh, he treats me all right." | 5:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So I don't want to go five or six miles to buy something when I could go two miles. Oh, it wasn't even two miles, one mile. So I would go to his store and he treated me just as nice. Open the door for me and take the things to my car. Sometimes I'd look at him, I'd think to myself, "How can you be so nice to me? You're a Klansman." So that's how I know they don't really all don't hate, now there's some that do. Some do. I agree with someone's born like that because I heard one say, "If a Klansman—" He was a boy then, "If a Klansman come out, a Klansman group come out, I'd be one of the first ones to join." And like I said, it's the same thing. White hates Blacks, Black hates White, the same dang difference. So like I said, they all don't hate Blacks. | 6:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Do you think most White men in this area join the Klan? | 7:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In this area? Actually, I don't know the men and not if they are in it, I don't know it. I don't know. | 7:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember were there certain times where the Klan became more active than others during your life? | 7:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh yes, because I've been hit. I was walking along the road and some White men passing threw a bottle at me and I reckon if it hit on my head, it would probably kill me. Then they were hitting on my leg and I mean, the blood flowed. But the Lord was in this too because it taught me a lesson. And so every step I would take, the blood would come out bad. | 7:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Ugh. | 7:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And so I walked into a store and I said that, "I hate White people." They went on, all I wanted was revenge for how the White treated me, because I've been hurt from one. And I walked on in the store and there was about five or six White men there standing in the store. And I went in like something crazy challenging one and all, "I've been hurt by a White man." And I'm telling something, I knew that was going to show you is hate. That's only hate. I'm standing up there. Now, as large as I am now, I didn't weigh as much. | 7:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And they looked at me like they thought I was crazy and you know I was. So, didn't anybody say a word? I turned around, walked out, and I kept on and I just wanted revenge, wanted revenge. And I finally, one day they talking, "I hate Mama, you are just like that." And I said, "Oh my goodness, that hate done growed up in me like that." And so then I prayed to the Lord. So then I said, "Well, thank God that happened." | 8:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I mean, it's nothing but hate. You know what it means. So I said, "Well, we supposed to love everybody. Now, why would I want to hurt anybody because I was hurt by someone else?" | 8:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 9:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So I said the Lord was in that. So I used it well. | 9:01 |
Karen Ferguson | About how old were you when that happened? | 9:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was long when the racial violence was so—so at first coming out, it was about, I don't know, I was grown. It's been about 20, 30 years. I don't know. I don't know how long it's been. | 9:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Did any thinking like that ever happen to you again? Or has anything like that—? | 9:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 9:29 |
Karen Ferguson | How about other people you knew or in your family? | 9:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, not in my family. No. | 9:33 |
Karen Ferguson | No? So this was a time when the Klan was really Black-hating? | 9:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right, when the racial violence was so bad on the first part. | 9:39 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you think that that kind of racial violence, how did it affect Black people? Did it keep them from doing certain things, do you think? Or did it control them? | 9:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I don't think it did. | 9:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 9:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't think so. | 9:56 |
Karen Ferguson | You don't think it made people more afraid than in other places or—? | 9:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't think it did. I don't think so. And it probably made them to be more watchful, but not afraid, I don't think. | 9:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. When you were talking about your grandfather being so secretive about it, did you think that that had anything to do with it? That he didn't want White people to know what he was doing? | 10:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not anybody. | 10:14 |
Karen Ferguson | So he didn't want anybody to know? | 10:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not anybody. | 10:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 10:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Best I could understand. | 10:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there things that Black people did in secret so that White people didn't know they were doing it, do you think? | 10:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know really. I really don't. There probably was though. | 10:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 10:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Probably was. | 10:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there anything you did? | 10:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, no. No. Nothing I did. | 10:37 |
Karen Ferguson | No? Okay. Maybe we can talk about school a little bit. Where did you go to school? | 10:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I went to elementary school here in Vanceboro, and I went to high school in Fort Barnwell. | 10:45 |
Karen Ferguson | In Fort Barnwell? | 10:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Fort Barnwell, mm-hmm. | 10:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Did you like school? | 10:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I loved it. | 10:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. What did you like about it? | 10:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Everything. | 10:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember ever any teachers? Favorite teachers? | 11:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, yes. In high school I did. My science teacher. I liked my home economics teacher. I didn't really like, I mean, I didn't really hate her, but she wasn't a good teacher. | 11:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. How about the teachers you had in Vanceboro? Were they good teachers? Were they well trained, do you think? | 11:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I guess they were in those days when you go to a one room school. | 11:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, yeah. | 11:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And there so much they could do with a whole 50 to 60 children. I guess she was pretty good. | 11:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. How did she keep discipline with all those children and all those different ages? | 11:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Actually, the children were good. | 11:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 11:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. They did not talk loud. They were real good and nice. | 11:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you ever remember being disciplined by your teachers? No? | 11:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 11:58 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 11:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-mm. | 11:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Did the teachers come from around here? | 12:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, they lived in New Bern, but they roomed and boarded in Vanceboro. | 12:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. So they were mostly from New Bern? | 12:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 12:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember your teachers playing favorites ever? | 12:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I don't. | 12:18 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 12:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I don't. | 12:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, when you went to Fort Barnwell, is that a town? | 12:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, it is not a town, but maybe had one or two stores in it. I don't even think it has a bank. | 12:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 12:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not really. | 12:36 |
Karen Ferguson | When you went there, children who came from different backgrounds, were they treated differently by the other children or by the teachers? Were the poor children treated badly by the students or anything like that? | 12:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They all were poor. | 12:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay, that's right. | 12:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But now, the ones that had a little bit more than the others, spending money, they just thought themselves was better than the others. But then there wasn't but a few of those. But actually they were the dumbest one in schools though. | 12:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 13:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They were, but as the [indistinct 00:13:15], I don't think the children—I mean, the teacher, didn't show any favor to them. No. | 13:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Right. Now, were the children, when you were going to school, I guess especially elementary school, well, were high school as well, who were kept out of school working in the fields? | 13:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. Well, and then your school closed in April, and so it didn't have any that taked on farming. | 13:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So was it a split term? Did you go to school twice during the year? | 13:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, we just had a short school term. | 13:36 |
Karen Ferguson | So you went to school from September to April, or—? | 13:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. September, and sometime about the 1st of April, maybe about the 5th of April. 1st of April. | 13:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you think you got a good education? | 13:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think I did. I graduated valedictorian. | 13:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you did? Congratulations. | 13:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Couldn't even go to college. | 13:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. | 13:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Didn't have the money. | 13:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 14:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I graduated in '42 and that's when the war began. | 14:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 14:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And it didn't even give us scholarship. That first year, they didn't give a scholarship. But it was my dream to go to college. I had already sent in my application, had been accepted, couldn't make it. | 14:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did your teachers encourage you to go to college? | 14:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. Even the principal got me a job working with the president of North Carolina State College. | 14:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh really? Okay. | 14:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But still, I didn't have the money to go. | 14:28 |
Karen Ferguson | So did you want to go to Durham to go to school? | 14:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, yes. | 14:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and did your parents want you to go to college? | 14:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, sometimes I think now that my mama had to get up over the money. | 14:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me? She—? | 14:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sometimes I think it was my mom that felt like she couldn't afford it. | 14:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 14:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Knowing now how she hate to spend money. | 14:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 14:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sometimes I think that was it. | 14:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Had any of your brothers and sisters been able to go to college? | 14:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 14:59 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 14:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-mm. | 15:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 15:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because back then it was so hard to go, because I had to walk from about five or six—I had to walk at least three miles to catch the bus and go to Fort Barnwell. | 15:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, okay. And did you work during school? While you were at school? | 15:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 15:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Was education important to your parents? | 15:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I guess it was. But see, back then in those days, it was so hard for children to get to school and didn't very many even finished elementary school, but I guess it was. | 15:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So do you think most children weren't able to go to high school? | 15:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, we didn't have one here. If you went to high school, you either had to stay away, maybe go stay in Washington. But long when I graduated, see, I had to go to Fort with Mama and then I had to go walk three or four miles to catch the bus. | 15:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 15:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And see, you really had to be motivated to do something like that. | 16:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, and how about your brothers and sisters? Had they finished high school? | 16:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My older sisters and brothers haven't, but my younger ones have. I'm about the middle one out of 10. | 16:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think that the older ones didn't finish, and the younger ones did? | 16:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think it must be they went to this one— | 16:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 16:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | School house. Just one room, school. And evidently, little here and a little bit there, they probably got discouraged. | 16:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Now had your parents been able to get any schooling? Were they—? | 16:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My dad didn't. I don't know about my mother, but my daddy didn't. | 16:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. He didn't? | 16:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 16:44 |
Karen Ferguson | So could he read? | 16:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think he could read some, not that— | 16:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 16:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But he could not read that much, but really had more common sense than I did. | 16:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 16:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But I remember one time, he was trying and asked me to figure something, I'm here with a high school education, trying to figure, and he figured it quicker in his mind than I could recant. | 16:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 17:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So as I said, up to a point he had common sense. | 17:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you learn anything about Black people in school? | 17:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. They didn't? | 17:16 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 17:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Didn't teach anything about Black people. | 17:17 |
Karen Ferguson | They didn't have a Negro history month or week or anything? | 17:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. No. | 17:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have any heroes when you were growing up? Famous Black people whom you really admired at all when you were coming out? | 17:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I didn't know any. | 17:40 |
Karen Ferguson | No? You didn't? | 17:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Didn't know any. | 17:40 |
Karen Ferguson | You didn't? All right. | 17:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They really didn't talk about them. | 17:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So you didn't know about people like Marian Anderson or Joe Lewis or any people like that? | 17:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, I think. Though, I believe Joe Lewis was when I was out of school, I think. Now the owners now, I did have a favorite. Clark Gable when I was in school. | 17:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Clark Gable? Okay. | 18:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 18:05 |
Karen Ferguson | So, okay. Now what movies did you see him in? | 18:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Gone with the Wind. That was it, and I think I saw him in Never Let Me Go. I believe he played in that, Never Let Me Go. | 18:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you go to see the movies? | 18:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They had a movie in Vanceboro. They had a movie. | 18:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. And what did you think of it? What did Black people think of Gone With the Wind when it came out? | 18:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I really don't know. I never heard them discussing. | 18:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Did you think about it when you saw it? About the portrayal of Black people in the movie or anything like that? | 18:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, because see, I had never lived through that, and so I could not relate to that. And then sometimes I think, "Well, could it have been that bad?" But I don't relate to what it was, so it didn't really bother me. I just looked at the good part and forgot that. | 18:46 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do after you finished high school? | 19:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Got married. | 19:12 |
Karen Ferguson | You got married? | 19:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because I couldn't go to college. I was so disgusted. And see in those days, your parents wanted you to get married. I readily did, some people said that. So I didn't go to college and I was so disgusted, I got married. | 19:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. You wanted to leave home? | 19:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I just wanted to go to college, but then since I couldn't go, I said if they couldn't send me to college, they couldn't take care of me. | 19:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 19:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess that was the wrong attitude to have, but— | 19:35 |
Karen Ferguson | What point in your life did you feel like you were an adult and people started treating you like an adult? Do you remember? | 19:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't remember. | 19:52 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 19:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't remember. Probably two or three years after I got married. Because I used to think again, "Oh, I'll be glad when I get—", oh, I want to say 20 or something, 21. I think about a preaching, grown girl growing at 21 already. I got married by 19, I said, "I'll be glad when I get to 21." So maybe that's when I felt like I would be an adult. | 19:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now where did you meet your husband? | 20:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I met him in Vanceboro. One of my girlfriends, and we was in Vanceboro, and my girlfriend—my friend got my husband to take them home, so that's how I met him because he was a Vanceboro boy too. | 20:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, and was he going to school or no? | 20:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 20:35 |
Karen Ferguson | What was he doing? | 20:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. Working in Longwood, I think. | 20:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 20:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because his daddy was a farmer too, but I think he was working in Longwood. | 20:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now what was your courtship like? | 20:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | It was good. | 20:51 |
Karen Ferguson | What did you do together? | 20:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Nothing, he'd come to see me sitting at home. That's what it was, in those days. Just visits. | 20:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Were people strict? Were your parents strict about you seeing boys? | 21:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess not. I know when we were going to stay with them, we'd know what to do, how far to go and— | 21:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 21:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That makes a difference. We knew what we were supposed to do and we didn't rock the boat. | 21:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right, right. Do you remember any girls getting pregnant during high school? | 21:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. Nothing. | 21:21 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 21:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh yes. When I was in high school, yes. I don't think there was, but one there in my class. | 21:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Now what happened when that happened, when girls got pregnant without being married in those days? Was that seen as a sinful thing or as a bad thing to do? | 21:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. But she kept on going to school. | 21:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, she did? | 21:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah. She kept on. They did not put her out. | 21:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Interesting. I've been talking to people in New Bern and they'd say that the girls, they'd have to leave school. | 21:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, she didn't leave. | 21:59 |
Karen Ferguson | And what was your wedding like? | 21:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know, the man I met carried me so fast, he planned the wedding and everything but it was a home wedding. | 22:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 22:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I really can't remember. Sometimes I'd say, "I don't even remember whether I said I will or not." | 22:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, did your parents approve of you getting married to this man? | 22:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, yes. | 22:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Did your mother teach you anything about being a good wife? Did she tell you anything about it? What do you think makes a good wife? | 22:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, listen, being a good wife is—I don't know, I guess trying to make it healthy and happy. | 22:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 22:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I mean, I think that's good. To make people happy. | 22:42 |
Karen Ferguson | And what's the husband for? | 22:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Make her real happy. | 22:50 |
Karen Ferguson | So what did you two do after you got married? Where did you go? | 22:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We just stayed here and he kept working in Longwood for a while and then he'd be into farming. | 23:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, and did he work on someone else's land or did you own your own? | 23:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | On someone else's land. Moved about then, two times a year. | 23:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, really? | 23:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, not when was farming, but maybe wait on this place and farm a year and then move somewhere else. | 23:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Was that hard? | 23:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh yes, it was. | 23:20 |
Karen Ferguson | How? Why? | 23:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Moving is a job. Just taking a year and you break up a lot of your furniture and it's hard getting adjusted. Different homes. | 23:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And were they all in this area that you moved to? | 23:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In the Vanceboro area, yes. | 23:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, why would you move so often? | 23:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, he would get tired farming with this person and try farming with someone else. | 23:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Did the people he was farming or you were farming for, were they fair to you or good to you? | 23:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, they were. | 23:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? They've always dealt with you fairly? | 23:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 24:00 |
Karen Ferguson | So did you continue to do work on other people's farms all the time? Did you ever get to own your own land, or what did you do? | 24:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I didn't. No, he didn't. But I own some land that I inherited from my father, but he never obtained it. | 24:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And what was his arrangement with these landowners? Was he sharecropping? | 24:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sharecropping. | 24:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. How was that different? You'd lived on your own farm all your life, family had been independent, how was it different for you to move to sharecropping? Was that a difficult adjustment to make? | 24:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Very difficult. | 24:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Why? | 24:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I don't know, if he had handled his money wisely, it might not have been that much different. But see, evidently he spent it before he made it, and then at the end of it, when he sold his crop, he always owed. Owed it up. | 24:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Yeah. | 25:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But it's not because the people were taking it from him, its because he got the money in advance. | 25:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Now, what else was hard for you to adjust to after getting married and doing that? | 25:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Working long hours. See, I've been used to go in the field at 8:00 and my mother came out at 10:00 to cook. We all came out and all went back together. | 25:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 25:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Working long hours and working so much alone and tending to babies and the job. | 25:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, yeah. Now did you have babies right away after you got married? | 25:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 25:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? And how many did you have? | 25:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 11. | 25:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me? | 25:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I had 11 children. | 25:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 25:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So, 11. | 25:44 |
Karen Ferguson | And in those days, were there any ways that women could limit the number of babies they had? Was there any form of birth control? | 25:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, not free like it is now. If you could afford to buy it, you had to buy it. | 25:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, do you know about it, that such things exist? | 26:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I know about it. | 26:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? Who delivered your babies? Is it—? | 26:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | First two were midwives and other ones I went to hospital doctors. | 26:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What hospital did you go to? | 26:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In Washington, Tele Hospital. | 26:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and was that a White hospital? | 26:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 26:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And what did you prefer? Did you prefer delivering with a midwife or going to a hospital? | 26:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Hospital. | 26:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? Why did you think that mattered? | 26:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I had my second child. I was in labor for 24 hours and so that created a problem, and if it'd been to the hospital, it wouldn't of been like that. | 26:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Wow. Who was the midwife who delivered your children? | 26:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Her name was Katie Blunt. | 26:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 26:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And see, I felt like when I was in labor for 24 hours, she should've advised me to go to the hospital or something instead of just staying there. | 26:57 |
Karen Ferguson | What would the midwife do for you? Did she just deliver the child or did she help you in other ways? | 27:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, with this one, she tried to help, already. And she would pull on my stomach because the baby came feet first which created a problem. And that's all she did. Well, she would get and have me to push right all for 24 hours. And ooh, it was a job. | 27:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did she help you after the baby was delivered? Would she stay and help take care of things? | 27:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 27:42 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 27:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-mm. | 27:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So how soon after you delivered the baby did you go back to work? | 27:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | A month. | 27:48 |
Karen Ferguson | A month? | 27:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 27:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Did she provide any kind of medicine for you? | 28:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 28:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Herbal remedies or anything? | 28:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 28:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now did you stay with your husband? | 28:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I did. | 28:17 |
Karen Ferguson | You did? | 28:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 28:17 |
Karen Ferguson | And how long have you been married or is he still living? | 28:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, he still living, we are divorced now. | 28:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. Okay. | 28:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We've been— | 28:23 |
Karen Ferguson | When did you separate? | 28:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | About 25 years ago. | 28:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. Okay. All right. | 28:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, we were together about 20. We got together about 25. | 28:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Why did you decide to leave him? | 28:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's a good question. I didn't decide. He left me. | 28:36 |
Karen Ferguson | He left you? | 28:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I don't know why, to tell you the truth. I don't know why. I wish I knew. | 28:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. Well, what did you do after he left? | 28:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I just did days work whenever I could. | 28:47 |
Karen Ferguson | On the farm? | 28:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 28:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And you had all the children to take care of? | 28:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I had three. The other ones were grown. | 28:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, okay. And was that a hard time for you? | 28:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Hard time. Very hard. And one of my older daughters had a child and I was taking care of it, and so she would send money. Part to her child and that would help me a lot. | 28:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Now, did any sisters and brothers or your children move North or go move away? | 29:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My children did. | 29:21 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 29:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I had three. | 29:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, why did they go and not your brothers and sisters, do you think? Why did they move North and—? | 29:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. I guess just my brother and sisters are just—I guess because they had a good home life, I guess. I'm guessing, "Why should I leave? Didn't have a reason." And I guess my children were just glad to get away from home, I guess. | 29:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 29:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And they're older children, they really didn't leave home as early. I mean, not to go away like the younger people. | 29:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So, it was hard for your children at home? | 29:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 29:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? Did they have to work harder? | 29:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. They sometimes laugh about it now how if they did not do it well, their dad would have them go right back over it again. So— | 30:00 |
Karen Ferguson | So was he a hard man? | 30:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 30:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Yes? | 30:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 30:13 |
Karen Ferguson | So you had it much harder after you got married? | 30:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Much harder. | 30:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 30:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Much harder. | 30:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Now did your parents help you out or were they—? | 30:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I didn't let them know. | 30:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. They might? | 30:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They would have now, but I didn't ask. Now when we separated, then my daddy did my place where they lived. | 30:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 30:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I didn't let them know about the problems I was having. | 30:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Why didn't you let them know? | 30:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I just didn't want to worry them. | 30:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Did you keep in contact with them? | 30:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 30:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you go and see them, or—? | 30:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh yes. | 30:51 |
Karen Ferguson | How about your children? Were they able to go to high school and to college or—? | 31:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They went to high school and three of them went to a business college, business school. | 31:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Ah, okay. Was that important to you that they—? | 31:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. Because I was hoping that they would take up where I left off, but anyway. Very important. | 31:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Yeah. So after you separated, your father built you a place on his property? | 31:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah. | 31:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And were things better then for you, or—? | 31:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, yes. It was better. | 31:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Why was it better? What—? | 31:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Because I wouldn't have to pay rent and I was near them and now— | 31:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you have friends in the area or other people who would help you out when you were going through the hard times when you were married? | 31:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They probably would, but I didn't let anyone know. | 31:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, okay. Did you belong to any organizations after you got married when you were—? | 31:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. No more than the extension of homemakers or sports that were going. | 32:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, did you have a Black extension home demonstration agent? | 32:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, yes. | 32:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and what kind of things did she do? | 32:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, she would teach us how to do cooking, canning, quilting, most anything you learned how to do around the house. Quilting, sewing, a lot about home. | 32:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Did you know how to do these kinds of things? | 32:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I didn't know that much about canning, and I knew how to cook a lot of things. I learned about cooking, making different breads and all. | 32:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, was this a good time when she came around? | 32:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 32:54 |
Karen Ferguson | But what would women do together? What kinds of things would you do? | 32:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, we would probably have a project and then maybe we'd meet once a month, and then during the month we would probably make a craft or something and then take it to the next meeting in show and tell, and they would have refreshments and we would just have a good time. | 33:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Now, what kinds of things would you talk about when you got together with her? | 33:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well—you want to talk to her? | 33:23 |
Karen Ferguson | So what kinds of things would you talk about when you—? | 33:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She would always have a program plan when she came, so we would talk about different programs that she had planned when she came. | 33:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 33:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And we had taken good trips. We would have a yearly meeting. We would go to Raleigh and we always looked forward to that. | 33:41 |
Karen Ferguson | So you would meet with the other agents and the other women from around—? | 33:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. Right. Mm-hmm. | 33:52 |
Karen Ferguson | How would you go? Would you take a bus? | 33:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | A bus. Yes ma'am. Charter bus. | 33:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. After you got married, what kinds of things did you do for fun? Did you have any? | 33:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No fun. | 34:01 |
Karen Ferguson | No fun? | 34:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No fun. | 34:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Now when you got separated from your husband, your parents, did they approve of that? Was there any problem with you doing that or—? | 34:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not evidently, because they never said one way or the other. Usually, whatever we did, long as we wasn't hurting anybody else or whatever, breaking law, did no interfering. | 34:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, when you started living after you got separated, when you moved back to your father's land, did you farm there or did you work out? | 34:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I didn't farm. I worked out, but I didn't farm. My father was still living. He was staying in the farm. | 34:44 |
Karen Ferguson | So did you do farm work when you went and worked out, or did you—? | 34:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sometimes do farm work. Days worked on the farm, sometimes do housework. | 34:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What did you prefer? | 34:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. I just worked hard. I love to work outside and it depends on what I was doing. I did not like to sucker tobacco. I definitely didn't like that, but it depends. | 35:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Were there some jobs working in people's houses that you liked better than others? Yeah? | 35:14 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I like anything because I can do it. And I mean, when I worked for anybody, I do whatever they want me to do, but it seemed like, I don't know why, but doing the bathroom. And the bathrooms are not bad, but I think it's just in my head, I always leave it for the last. | 35:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. | 35:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But otherwise I don't really mind it. I even do windows. | 35:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there some people that you worked for who were nicer to you than others? | 35:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Actually, everybody I worked for is nice. | 35:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 35:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Actually. Mm-hmm. | 35:47 |
Karen Ferguson | And this was all in the Vanceboro area? | 35:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. No, I had worked for in Greenville too. | 35:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 35:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I haven't worked for them, but one person, and I feel sorry for her, that would act—that didn't act right, but she didn't even want me to have the TV on and work, because I didn't really want it on. I looked at the Young and the Restless and so I said, "Well, I'm going to work near the TV until the story go off, but she didn't want me to do it. But that was its own— | 35:52 |
Karen Ferguson | That was it, yeah. | 36:17 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And some I worked for, I just sit down and look at it and then I was over, I just go to work. And they don't care. | 36:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember people around here ever going to work at Cherry Point? | 36:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I remember, but I don't—in fact, I used to work down there too. | 36:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you did? | 36:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, uh-huh, with my family there. | 36:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, okay. | 36:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She was real nice. | 36:39 |
Karen Ferguson | So you worked right on the base or—? | 36:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right on the—? | 36:41 |
Karen Ferguson | At the Marine base there? | 36:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Let's see. Yes. I had to go through the gate. | 36:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 36:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 36:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember people ever working and building? Helped them to build the base? | 36:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh no, I don't. | 36:53 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 36:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't remember that. | 36:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Were you paid any better when you went down to work there? | 36:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | About the same. | 36:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 36:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Paid by the hour. Yeah, minimum wage. | 36:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there ever any point at which you were being paid more than others during your life? Do you remember? | 37:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, even now. | 37:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, now? | 37:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I guess it depends on the person, if she just wants to give it to me so it can make a difference. | 37:15 |
Karen Ferguson | What has been the biggest changes that you've seen in this area since you were a girl? | 37:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The biggest change? I don't know. I guess things have been built up more. More work here for them to do. I guess that's the biggest, because Vanceboro used to be—no jobs here, whatsoever. | 37:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 37:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And then the school here and the high schools, that makes a difference, especially with the high schools. | 37:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. What kinds of jobs can people do now but there weren't before? | 37:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They have several factories here now. | 37:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So people are doing public work then? | 37:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 38:00 |
Karen Ferguson | What do you think is better, public work or farm work in terms of—? | 38:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think that would be for the individual to decide because some men would rather do the factory. I don't think I could work in a factory, especially if I have to do a piece of work or protection. | 38:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 38:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I just don't think I can. I could do it if I had to, but I wouldn't want to. So I would say it was individual. | 38:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Right. Now when you became an adult, after you got married and up to now, what kinds of things are you involved in at church? | 38:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In the church? | 38:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 38:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I've been a secretary of the church. I was singing in the choir. I'm the, what do you say? The mother of the church, and so that's about it. | 38:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 38:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I worked with the Sunday school. I've been a Sunday school teacher for the adults and children. As of now, as I'm a Sunday school teacher for the young people. | 38:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Now, what is your involvement in all these activities? What has that meant to you in your life? Why did you join them and what satisfaction do you get out of doing it? | 39:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I get a satisfaction that I'm helping someone. I'm being a service. | 39:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you like the responsibility of it? | 39:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. No problem. | 39:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 39:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And it's a great responsibility sometimes. | 39:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. In what way? | 39:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sunday school gave me lessons together. I want to scrape them down. | 39:36 |
Karen Ferguson | What responsibility do you feel towards younger people, towards the younger generation? | 39:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I feel like responsibility to them is trying to live the life so that maybe they can see something meaningful to motivate them to be good. Yes. Because sometimes I feel like if they look at what I do, I'm kind of responsible, up to a point, of how they live. | 39:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did older people show that same responsibility? That same duty to make you aspire more when you were a child as well? | 40:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I think so. | 40:18 |
Karen Ferguson | How would they do that? How would—? | 40:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | By being careful what they say, be careful how they act, be careful how they dressed. Things. | 40:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 40:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Definitely were careful how they dressed. You see me do that? Have you seen me do this? | 40:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Well, what kind of people belong to your church? What do they do mostly? | 40:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, some worked in factories. Some farm, I mean, farmed and some retired. | 40:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Are there any teachers or doctors or anything that's more—? | 40:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Teachers. | 40:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 40:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Baseball and football players. And the young people, we have several that's good in sports. One of the boys that belongs there and he sings in a choir, and he was elected to go too, he's good at sports. Baseball, football, and he would stay late to go to Washington D.C. with a group of children this summer. | 41:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 41:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So we have right much talent there. | 41:23 |
Karen Ferguson | What kind of services has your church played in the community? Do they do any charity work or—? | 41:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Only if they ask. We may take up a special collection or something because we do not have a fellowship hall. So what we do is limited, and so that can make a difference. | 41:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, when did you start voting? | 41:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Ever since I become eligible. I mean, ever since. Once we started asking Blacks to register. | 42:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, could people register to vote when you were growing up? | 42:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I really don't know because I wasn't really interested in history and I really wasn't like that. I'm going to tell you, I got interested in history when President Kennedy was president. | 42:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 42:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So that's what. He was really motivated me to be interested in history, just looking at him and listening and so— | 42:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. What was it about him that made you feel that? | 42:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The way he talked, his voice, his smile. And I remember one time, he was having a news conference and it seemed like someone wanted to give him a question, that kind of opposed to him, and he looked at him and smiled and said, "Next." And that really motivated me, I think that. He didn't give him an answer, but I said, "That's really in my mind." And then his voice, well, I just love the way he said things that sometimes I look at how he and Jackie would smile. Oh, if I would just had part of that on me then I'd be half as happy. | 42:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, yeah. But you really admired him? | 43:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes. | 43:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 43:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I have actually heard of Bobby Kennedy—not Bobby, Joseph Kennedy. | 43:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh. | 43:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I went to the White House and I saw him standing in the hall. I liked him something crazy, "Oh, Kennedy!" And he looked around and smiled, and so when he got through talking, he came and spoke to us all. And I said to him, "I really admired President Kennedy." I said, "He was the one that got me motivated for history." He said, "I have to hug you for that." | 43:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah? | 43:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | So he gave me a hug. | 43:44 |
Karen Ferguson | So when was this? When did you go to Washington? | 43:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And we went there. It's been about three years ago. We went, the senior citizens on the tour, and I was so excited. Oh, I was excited. And so, the honorable Jones, what was his name? | 43:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Walter Jones? | 43:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Walter Jones. So we was visiting him that morning, and so when we went back after at lunch, he said, "I heard that someone recognized Joseph Kennedy." And he said, "Find a photographer." And so then he got a photographer and he had a picture, had the group picture made with him, and so that caused all of us, the group, to get a picture made with— | 44:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, that's great. | 44:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | With Jones. | 44:26 |
Karen Ferguson | And after you got married, were you able to travel anywhere? Have you traveled? | 44:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 44:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Where have you been able to go in your life? | 44:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In my lifetime? | 44:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 44:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I've been in about—now, most oldest since I've been separated, I mean, since I've been—I've been in about 15 states. | 44:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 44:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Niagara, Canada. | 44:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 44:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Bahamas. | 44:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 44:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's all that. | 44:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So that was something you always wanted to do? | 44:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Always wanted to do. Yes. I told someone, I said, "Now, if my husband died before I did—", people say, "Well, Emeler sure have started hanging out." So I say, "Well, I got a chance to do it before he die." | 45:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 45:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I enjoy traveling. I just love it. | 45:12 |
Karen Ferguson | I just have one final question for you. I wanted to ask you whether you have ever felt like you've been treated like a second class citizen in your life? | 45:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In my lifetime? | 45:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 45:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, in a way when I couldn't buy a glass cup of water because I was Black. | 45:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 45:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I went to Raleigh, like say when the integration was [indistinct 00:45:47] race was so whatever. | 45:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 45:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I was so sick. I was so sick and I went back to the lunch counter and I knew they wasn't serving, they didn't serve Blacks. So I said, "Just sell me a cup of water." They didn't sell me a cup of water. So that's about the downest I would've ever been. | 45:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you feel like the system, the way that Black people were treated in this area, has kept you down, has kept you from achieving what you wanted or could have achieved? | 46:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I don't think so. | 46:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. Well, it's been really nice speaking with you. | 0:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, nice talking to you, too. | 0:08 |
Karen Ferguson | I've enjoyed talking to you. I thought maybe if I could just take a couple more minutes. | 0:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 0:15 |
Karen Ferguson | I just have to fill out some forms, just to make it so people to know, a little bit better, about who you are. What's your full name, please? | 0:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Emeler. E-M-E-L-E-R. | 0:29 |
Karen Ferguson | E-R? E-M-E-L-E-R. | 0:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 0:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Where did you get that name? | 0:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. | 0:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Uh-huh. | 0:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know? | 0:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 0:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | My mama—I don't know. Maybe it's spelled wrong or something. | 0:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, is that E-M-E-L-E-R? | 0:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 0:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then, do you have a middle name? | 0:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Clark, C-L-A-R-K. That's— | 0:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Campbell. And Clark is your maiden name? | 0:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 0:55 |
Karen Ferguson | What's your current address, please? | 0:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | PO Box 526 Grantsboro. | 0:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and your zip code? | 1:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 28586. | 1:08 |
Karen Ferguson | 86? | 1:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 1:11 |
Karen Ferguson | And your telephone number? | 1:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | (919)-244-2790. | 1:14 |
Karen Ferguson | 27? Okay. | 1:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 90, look like a F. | 1:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. No, I just crossed out seven. Sorry. | 1:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yeah. | 1:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you like to be known as, Emel—how do you say this name? | 1:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Emeler. | 1:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Emeler Clark Campbell. Is that—okay. Do you have to get going? | 1:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, no, no, I'm driving. | 1:44 |
Karen Ferguson | And what's your date of birth, please? | 1:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | August the 24th, 1924. | 1:49 |
Karen Ferguson | And you were born here in— | 1:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Craven County. | 1:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Craven County, okay. | 1:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Right. | 1:57 |
Karen Ferguson | What's your husband's name? | 2:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Samuel Campbell. | 2:04 |
Karen Ferguson | What's his second name? | 2:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Glenn. | 2:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And do you remember when he was born? | 2:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | June the 21st? No, June the 13th. | 2:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 2:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 1921. | 2:21 |
Karen Ferguson | And is he still living? | 2:22 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 2:23 |
Karen Ferguson | And was he born in Craven County, as well? | 2:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 2:27 |
Karen Ferguson | And his occupation was farming? | 2:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 2:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And your mother's name, please. | 2:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Rachel Clark. | 2:37 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you know what her maiden name was? | 2:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Noblas. N-O-B-L-A-S. | 2:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember when she was born? | 2:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 1889. She don't know exactly the day. | 2:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, that's fine. So, 1889? Can you remember when she passed? | 2:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think it was 1965. I'm not for sure about that. | 2:58 |
Karen Ferguson | And she was born in Craven County? | 3:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:03 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. And what was her occupation? | 3:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Farming. | 3:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Farming? | 3:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And your father's name? | 3:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Noah Clark. | 3:12 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell that? | 3:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | N-O-A-H. | 3:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember when he was born? | 3:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | April 28th 1884. | 3:20 |
Karen Ferguson | 1884? | 3:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:25 |
Karen Ferguson | And when did he pass? | 3:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | October, 1960. | 3:29 |
Karen Ferguson | And he was born in Craven County? | 3:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then, you had many sisters and brothers, right? | 3:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Could you give me their names? | 3:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 3:47 |
Karen Ferguson | If you're able? | 3:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Lena Wright. | 3:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Pardon me? | 3:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Lena. L-E-N-A. | 3:49 |
Karen Ferguson | And did she have a married name? | 3:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Wright's her married name. | 3:54 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you— | 3:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | W-R-I-G-H-T. | 3:58 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you remember when she was born? | 4:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | November the 20th, 1914. | 4:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And is she still living? | 4:04 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 4:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after Lena? | 4:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Willie M. Pugh. | 4:08 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell that? P-E— | 4:11 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | P-U-G-H. | 4:12 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you remember when she was born? | 4:13 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | September the 21st, I think, 1916. | 4:15 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Willie? | 4:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Fanny Singleton. | 4:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Fanny Singer? | 4:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Singleton. S-I-N-G-L-E-T-O-N. | 4:26 |
Karen Ferguson | And do you remember when she was born? | 4:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | June the 24th, 1918. | 4:33 |
Karen Ferguson | And are they all still living? | 4:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 4:37 |
Karen Ferguson | The Willie and Fanny? And after Fanny? | 4:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Claudia Clark— | 4:41 |
Karen Ferguson | C-L- | 4:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh, C-L-A-U-D-I-A. | 4:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. C-A-U— | 4:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | C-L, he's a boy. | 4:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 4:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | C-L-A-U. | 4:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I'm sorry. G? D? | 4:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | D-I-A. I-A. | 4:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I-A, sorry. | 4:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 4:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And when was he born? | 4:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | March the 30th, 1920. | 4:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after Claudia? | 5:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Sarah Campbell. | 5:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And when was she born? | 5:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | April the 20th, I think, 1922. | 5:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And— | 5:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Of course, I'm the next. You know my name. | 5:18 |
Karen Ferguson | And then, after that? | 5:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Joe John Clark. | 5:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. How do you spell it? | 5:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | J-O-E | 5:24 |
Karen Ferguson | J-O-H-N? | 5:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. Clark. | 5:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And when was he born? | 5:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Let me see? Get back to him. I forgot when he was born. | 5:32 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Joe John? | 5:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Carrie. | 5:36 |
Karen Ferguson | So, Carrie? | 5:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. Bryant. | 5:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, Carrie Bryant. Okay. I see you. All right. And when was she born? | 5:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | December the 15th, 1928. | 5:46 |
Karen Ferguson | 1928? | 5:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 5:51 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Carrie? | 5:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Noah. | 5:53 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell that? | 5:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | N-O-A-H. | 5:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, right. Okay. Noah Clark? | 5:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. Junior. August the 28th, 1932. | 5:58 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Noah? | 6:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | George Earl. | 6:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 6:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Clark. | 6:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 6:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | He born March the 14th, 1936. | 6:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after him? | 6:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's it. | 6:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Now, is everybody still living? | 6:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, Claudia is dead. | 6:23 |
Karen Ferguson | And when did he die? Do you know? | 6:26 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Actually, I don't. It's been about two or three years ago. | 6:28 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Ago? Okay. | 6:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 6:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then, and all the others— | 6:31 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And Joe John's dead. How long he been dead? He's been back there about— | 6:38 |
Erin | Who? | 6:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Peter. About four years, Erin? | 6:40 |
Erin | Been longer than that. | 6:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know? About how long? | 6:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Around 1989? | 6:47 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Probably. | 6:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember when he was born? | 6:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | When was Peter born? You was born in—you was born in September. I don't remember when Peter was born. | 6:51 |
Erin | Hey, hey, hey. You was two years old when— | 7:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not me, no more. Yeah, I know the year he was born. | 7:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, that's fine. | 7:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh! Oh, the year he was born. He was born in 1922, then. | 7:07 |
Karen Ferguson | 1922? | 7:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 7:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 7:09 |
Erin | Uh-uh. Sarah was born in '22. | 7:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | You wasn't— | 7:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Sarah? | 7:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, he was born. He was born after me, then. Okay, | 7:17 |
Karen Ferguson | So, '25 maybe? | 7:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-uh. He was born in '24—he was born 1926. | 7:21 |
Karen Ferguson | 1926? | 7:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 7:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So, you were the 6th child, then? | 7:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 7:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, I have a space for your children, as well. | 7:33 |
Erin | Peter wasn't the 6th. Peter was the 7th. | 7:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah, I'm the 6th. | 7:36 |
Erin | Oh. | 7:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mabel Inez. | 7:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Mabel Inez? | 7:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 7:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Does she have a married name? | 7:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Baker. I know my brothers and sisters, but I don't know when my children was born. That's terrible, isn't it? | 7:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, that's okay. | 7:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | But I know she was born 1943. | 7:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Is she still living? | 7:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 7:55 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Mabel? | 7:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Carol. Carol. | 7:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Say K— | 7:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | C-A-R-O-L. | 8:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 8:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Tillett. | 8:03 |
Karen Ferguson | T-I-L-L- | 8:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | E-T-T. | 8:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And when was she born? | 8:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. | 8:07 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. That's fine. After Carol? | 8:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I'm 97. Columbus. No, no, no. Oh, Pat—Glennwood. | 8:08 |
Karen Ferguson | So, it's Glennwood? Pat Glennwood? | 8:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-uh, Glennwood Pat. G-L-E-N-N-W-O-O-D. | 8:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 8:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Pat. | 8:24 |
Karen Ferguson | P-A-T? | 8:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 8:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 8:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Campbell. | 8:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that's a— | 8:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | C-A-M-P-B— | 8:37 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was he born? | 8:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. | 8:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and after Glennwood, | 8:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Jan—put Janet Campbell. | 8:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you know when she was born? | 8:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, but she's 30. | 8:51 |
Karen Ferguson | 30? She's 30? Okay. So, in 1963? | 8:53 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm, probably. | 8:56 |
Karen Ferguson | And after Janet? | 8:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Noah. | 8:58 |
Karen Ferguson | Noah? Okay. | 8:59 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Campbell. And he's older than she is? He about 36. | 9:01 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So 36. So that would make him—okay, so about 1957? | 9:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 9:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And after Noah? | 9:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Linda Barrett. | 9:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Linda Barrett? | 9:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 9:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And how old is she? | 9:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. Terrible, isn't it? | 9:22 |
Karen Ferguson | That's all right. And after Linda? | 9:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Let me see, now? Carol, Jan, Linda. How many you have? I have four daughters. | 9:26 |
Karen Ferguson | Two, three—okay. Daughters, we have 1, 2, 3, 4. We have four. | 9:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | We have have seven, now? | 9:40 |
Karen Ferguson | We have one, two— | 9:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I missed Columbus. That's who it is. | 9:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Columbus? Okay. | 9:42 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Uh-huh. | 9:42 |
Karen Ferguson | And when was he born. | 9:45 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. Oh! He born July 19th, and I don't know, I believe he said he's— | 9:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 9:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't know. | 9:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. That's fine. Do you have any grandchildren? | 9:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, yes! | 9:55 |
Karen Ferguson | But you don't have to give their names. Do you know how many you have> | 9:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | About 19. | 9:58 |
Karen Ferguson | 19? Okay. | 9:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And two great-grandchildren. | 10:01 |
Karen Ferguson | That's wonderful. So, you've lived in Craven County all your life? | 10:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | All my life. | 10:06 |
Karen Ferguson | How did you feel when your children moved away North? Was that hard for you? | 10:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not hard, no. | 10:20 |
Karen Ferguson | No? Did you want them to go, or—? | 10:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I didn't want them to go, but yet I accepted it. | 10:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. And where did they go? | 10:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | New York. | 10:28 |
Karen Ferguson | New York? | 10:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 10:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you ever go up there to visit them? | 10:29 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. Visit about two or three times a year. I went up there so much I could find a way around alone. | 10:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Did you like it up there? | 10:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes, I did, for a visit. | 10:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. What did you like about going there? | 10:39 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, I loved just going to—I mean, going on Fifth Avenue, and going to the shows. I went to the Ed Sullivan Show. To see the Password and— | 10:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 10:52 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I've been to several shows, Fifth Avenue, and the Bronx Zoo. And I went so much, that I could just travel alone. | 10:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. | 11:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I enjoyed it. | 11:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you ever think you would've liked to have moved up North or any other place? | 11:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 11:06 |
Karen Ferguson | No? | 11:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, I wouldn't. I love the country. | 11:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. What is it about country life that you like? | 11:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | The flowers, nature, the birds, and— | 11:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 11:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —fresh air. I just love to hear the birds sing. I just love nature. | 11:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Was there anything that surprised you, when you went to the city, or even to Raleigh or— | 11:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well—not well, I guess so, because I expect it to be look more luxurious— | 11:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, yeah. | 11:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | —than it did. Especially, in New York. It looked so drab, and I don't know. I had heard so much about it, that I thought I was going to a paradise. | 11:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, right. And when people came back, what would they tell you about the city? | 11:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, that's what they say. I mean, "Come to New York! And don't know anything about trees, don't know anything about dirt." Now, you go up there, you see dirt, you see trees. And they had painted such a pretty picture. | 11:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. So, the school you went to here in—your elementary school, what was it called? | 12:07 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Buck School. | 12:14 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell it? | 12:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | B-U-C-K. | 12:15 |
Karen Ferguson | And that was in Vanceboro? | 12:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 12:18 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And what grade did you go to there? | 12:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 7th. | 12:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And then the high school you went to was called? | 12:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Newbold Training School. | 12:31 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell— | 12:33 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | N-E-W-B-O-L-D. | 12:33 |
Karen Ferguson | B-O-L-A? | 12:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | B-O-L-D. | 12:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 12:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Training. | 12:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Training School. Okay. And that was in Fort— | 12:40 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Fort Barnwell. | 12:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that's B-A-R-N-W-E-L-L? | 12:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | B-A-R-N-W-E-L-L. | 12:47 |
Karen Ferguson | And what grade did they—did you graduate in 11th grade? | 12:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I graduated, but it was 11th then. | 13:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you graduated in 1942? | 13:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | 1942. | 13:05 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. Now, have you gone to back to school since then or—? | 13:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. | 13:14 |
Karen Ferguson | And I have a place here for work history. Like what you've done. What jobs would you like me to put down here? Farming and— | 13:16 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I farmed and I cleaned the bank, and I do domestic work. | 13:24 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 13:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In fact, I don't farm now, but I have farmed. | 13:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, okay. Have you received any awards or honors, or held any offices, that you'd like me to put down here? | 13:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Well, I have held office, and I've had awards. I've held office in the Extension Homemakers. | 13:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What were you there? Were you the— | 13:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I've been Vi—President on the County level. | 13:52 |
Karen Ferguson | President or Vice. Okay. | 13:54 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Of the Extension Homemakers. | 13:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Anything else? | 13:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I have been the Vice-President on the County level, too. And I— | 14:05 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. And what else? | 14:12 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And I have been a Chairman of Work Committee on a District level | 14:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Chairman, sorry, of what? | 14:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | A Work Committee. | 14:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Work Committee. What's that? | 14:20 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In other words, they call it—they have different committees on say, health and other kind of Committees; ealth, education and other things like that. | 14:24 |
Karen Ferguson | So, this is a Government Committee? | 14:37 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 14:40 |
Karen Ferguson | How did you get involved in that? | 14:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I don't—I just—like during the Extension Homemakers, I just joined. And then, when you go to these County meetings. | 14:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 14:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And then, they elect you or whatever. | 14:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So, what kinds of things do you work on, in the Work Committee? | 14:56 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | In other words, like we said—well, I said, if I be on the Education Committee. "Now, what can we do for the education?", they would say. And then, we get ideas, and then bring it back for all the different club meetings. | 14:59 |
Karen Ferguson | So, okay. But this is part of the County Government? | 15:15 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 15:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Now, are there many people in your position, who are—I mean, in other words, are there many people who actually are workers, and are there many African Americans on these committees? | 15:19 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Since it's been integrated? No. | 15:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 15:36 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Not that many. Because— | 15:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Not many? | 15:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, because since it's been integrated—see, it used to be all Black. | 15:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, okay. | 15:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | And since it's been integrated, seem like the Blacks don't go that much. | 15:44 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. | 15:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | They're just about— | 15:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. So, is this with the Extension Homemakers? | 15:48 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 15:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. This is with the Extension Homemakers, as well. | 15:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 15:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. Any other offices that you've held? | 15:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No. That's it. | 16:00 |
Karen Ferguson | And your church's name, again? | 16:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | St. Peter. | 16:05 |
Karen Ferguson | St. Peter? And that's Missionary Baptist? | 16:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, Free Will Baptist. | 16:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Free Will Baptist? | 16:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 16:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And that's the only church you've ever belonged to? | 16:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 16:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. So you belong to the—what do you call it? The Extension Homemakers? | 16:25 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 16:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Is that what the organization is called? What's its full name? Is that Extension Homemakers? | 16:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I think. That's all I know. | 16:41 |
Karen Ferguson | Anything else? | 16:43 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, that's about it. | 16:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And at church, what have you belonged to? | 16:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, YPCL. | 16:49 |
Karen Ferguson | YPCL? | 16:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 16:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What else? | 16:50 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I'm the Mother. | 16:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Church Mother? | 16:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yeah. | 16:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I should put that down as an office, I guess. | 16:57 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 16:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Church Mother. What else? | 17:00 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | That's about all I'm doing there, now, but I have been in the Choir and been the Clerk. | 17:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, you've been Church Clerk. Anything else? | 17:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | No, that's all I can think of. | 17:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you have a favorite saying, or quote, or Bible verse that you'd like me to put down here, for the record? | 17:21 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. | 17:29 |
Karen Ferguson | You do? Okay. | 17:30 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "He that wait upon the Lord—" oh, I have several. | 17:30 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. But we'll put down this one. [indistinct 00:17:35]. | 17:32 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | [indistinct 00:17:35]. | 17:34 |
Karen Ferguson | "He that waits upon the Lord—" | 17:35 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "—shall renew their strength." | 17:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 17:46 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "They shall mount up with wings as an eagle." | 17:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Sorry. They shall what? | 17:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "They shall mount up it's wings of an eagle." | 17:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, all right. | 17:51 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "They shall run and not weary." | 18:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Sorry? | 18:08 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | "And not weary. They shall walk and not faint." Mm-hmm. That's it. | 18:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Seems appropriate for your life. | 18:24 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, really? | 18:26 |
Karen Ferguson | That's nice. Now, what is that verse? Is it—what? | 18:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I can't tell you that either. Where it's found at. | 18:32 |
Karen Ferguson | That's fine. There are a couple of words here. I just want make sure that I have spelled correctly, of people's names. Let me see here. I think, anyway. | 18:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | You say you go to Central College? | 19:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Where do I go to college? | 19:02 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Mm-hmm. | 19:03 |
Karen Ferguson | I go to Duke University. | 19:03 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh, Duke. | 19:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. And Kara goes to Duke, as well. | 19:05 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I thought you mentioned Central in Durham. | 19:07 |
Karen Ferguson | There is another guy who goes to Central, as well. But he's not here today. | 19:09 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Oh. I might have a granddaughter who went to Central. | 19:16 |
Karen Ferguson | She's going there? | 19:18 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | She went last year, and she's going back this year. | 19:20 |
Karen Ferguson | You talked about your friend, Eva Bland. How do you spell her name? E-V-A? | 19:23 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | E-V-A. | 19:26 |
Karen Ferguson | And then, how about her last name? | 19:27 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Bland. B-L-A-N-D. | 19:29 |
Karen Ferguson | And your father's name was, Noah— | 19:38 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Noah Clark. | 19:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Noah Clark, okay. Right. Okay. The Ruth's Order, the Organization, your mother—how do you spell that? R-U-T-H— | 19:41 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | R-U-T-H. | 19:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Ruth Order? What was the name of the hospital that you went to? | 19:58 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Taylor Hospital. T-A-Y-L-O-R. | 20:21 |
Karen Ferguson | When you went to the hospital, were you treated well at the hospital? | 20:28 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Very good. | 20:34 |
Karen Ferguson | And was it a segregated hospital? Did Blacks have a different ward than Whites? | 20:34 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | I guess so. I'm sure they did. | 20:40 |
Karen Ferguson | Right, but the facilities were good? | 20:44 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Good. In fact, the doctor owned the hospital, too. | 20:47 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, he owned the hospital? | 20:49 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Yes. Dr. John Taylor owned the hospital. He was a good doctor. | 20:50 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Right. Was it a large hospital? | 20:55 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Large, yes. Not big like these, but in those days, it was large. | 20:56 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. And where was that? | 21:01 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | Washington, North Carolina. | 21:02 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And Katie Blount, the midwife, how do you spell her name? | 21:06 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | K-A-T-I-E. | 21:07 |
Karen Ferguson | And then, Blunt, B-L-U-N-T? | 21:10 |
Emeler Clark Campbell | B-L-O-U-N-T. | 21:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 21:19 |
Erin | Could you excuse me, just a minute? | 21:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Sure. We're just about finished. | 21:22 |
Erin | Okay. | 21:23 |
Item Info
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