Carter Chestnut interview recording, 1993 July 15
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Chris Stewart | Just state your name and your address so I can get a voice level on the machine. | 0:03 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | All right. I'm Karenell Carter Chestnut of 37 Mercer Avenue in Wilmington, North Carolina. 28403 is my zip code. | 0:09 |
Chris Stewart | Thank you, ma'am. I'd like to start by asking, Ms. Chestnut, if you've always lived here in Wilmington? | 0:20 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I've lived here a lifetime. | 0:26 |
Chris Stewart | Really? | 0:27 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yes. I'm 77 years old. | 0:28 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, my. Where were you— | 0:30 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I was born right here in Wilmington on Christmas Day, December 25th, 1915. | 0:33 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, my. | 0:39 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | And this coming December, I'll be 78. So I feel very blessed. | 0:39 |
Chris Stewart | Where were you born here in Wilmington? | 0:45 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | On the corner of 7th and Queen. | 0:47 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, okay. | 0:48 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | That's in the south side of town. | 0:48 |
Chris Stewart | I've been there. | 0:51 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | You've been to 7th and Queen, yeah. | 0:52 |
Chris Stewart | I've traveled around that area. | 0:54 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Right. And my family where Methodist, and in my early childhood, I attended St. Luke AME Zion Church, which is on the corner of 7th and Church. And I was a member of that church until I married, and I married in 1941 and I married an Episcopalian. And in order for us to have our children come together in one denomination, in one church, I went to my husband's church. So now, the last 50 some years, I've been an Episcopalian but my family members are still Methodist. | 0:59 |
Chris Stewart | What church do you belong to? | 1:41 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I belong to St. Mark's Episcopal Church. That's on the corner of 6th and Grace Streets here. | 1:43 |
Chris Stewart | It's a beautiful church. | 1:48 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | It is. Have you've seen that? | 1:49 |
Chris Stewart | I took pictures of it, yes. | 1:51 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Did you really? Very beautiful. We are very proud of our little church. Right. | 1:52 |
Chris Stewart | Lola Eloby, who's the secretary at St. Stephens, her family, her—Sampsons, Franks. | 1:57 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know the family. I know the family. Yeah. In fact, Lola, I didn't know the name Lola Everett, but Lola Sampson was one of my fourth grade students many years ago. | 2:08 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, really? | 2:22 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Haven't seen her in years but she was a student of mine. | 2:22 |
Chris Stewart | She's doing well. | 2:24 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Very good. And she's secretary over at St. Stevens. I get in touch with her sometimes. All right. And I went to school here in my elementary school days. I went to school on 7th Street. I lived on the corner of 7th and Cleveland. For my elementary school, I went to what was called Williston Primary. Now, Williston Primary at that time was on 7th Street between Ann and Nun. It was a building where now, Jordan's funeral home is. | 2:25 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 3:03 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | There was a forum school there. Well, there was one building where there were four large rooms for first-graders. Then there was another small building down near the sidewalk for the fifth first-graders. So I was in one of those rooms in that four room building on 7th Street in the first grade. Then for the second grade through the fifth grade, there was an old building on the corner of 7th and Nun that was originally Gregory Normal Institute, but the state, the county at least took it over, the county Board of Education took it over after the missionaries ceased their work there. I know you've heard the history of that. And it was during this time that I— It was a public school when I attended there, I went there in the second grade and I stayed they're second, third, fourth, and fifth grades. | 3:04 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | And for the sixth grade, I went over to 10th Street to what was called Williston High School. But the sixth grades, the names have been changed so much till y'all have to hesitate to find out what the name, but at that time, it was Williston High School. And all sixth graders from the Hanover County met there. | 4:03 |
Chris Stewart | You're talking about Williston class. | 4:29 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Oh yeah. So for this school system, there were several small one and two room schools in the county, and Peabody was a school on the north side of town, and Gregory was the one on the south side of town. Well, all the students converged in on Williston when they reached the sixth grade, and we stayed in Williston until we graduated from high school. Now, I went to Williston, the first building, from the sixth through the 10th grade. Then when I was in the 10th grade, there was a new school built on the corner of 10th and Ann that was called Williston Industrial High School, which was the same name of the other one. But the other school that I had attended first, the name changed when this new Williston was built to Williston Primary School. And I went there in the 10th grade to the new school. During the holidays, they completed that school and we went over there. | 4:34 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | And now, the reason that I said 10th grade, we didn't have a 12th grade at that time. My class was the class of 1932, and during that time, there was a great depression and the state had to take off the 12th grade because there was not enough money to finance the teachers for a 12th grade. So I only went to school from the first grade to the 11th grade, and when I reached the 11th grade, I graduated, my class, graduated, merged with a 12th grade class, but mine was the first class to come out in the 11th grade at that time. So that class, my class was the largest class that had ever graduated from Williston because this was a merged class, and there were 152 students in that class and we thought that was just huge. However, comparing now, it's nothing, but up until that time, we thought it was a huge class. | 5:45 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | However, we felt cheated because we did not get a 12th grade and we did not have the 12th grade, but there was nothing that we could do about it. And the reason I say cheated is that we've always felt that we did not have honors and honor students from that group, from the 11th grade because of the valedictorian, the salutatorian and all came from that 12th grade group. And some of us as a committee tried to reason with the principal to at least just let one of ours have just a little recognition from that group, but they didn't see it then and they didn't do it. | 6:51 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | But anyway, after graduating from Williston in 1932, I went to Fayetteville State. Well, it was called Fayetteville State Normal School at that time because it was only a two-year school. Well, as I told you a few minutes ago, we were in a depression and it was hard to even get there. And would you believe that the tuition there that year was $152.50 for the year, and that was the hardest money that we could have ever tried to get because money was just scarce and times were just hard during that time. But I went there for two years and graduated in 1934 from the normal school, which meant I graduated from high school at 16 and graduated from normal school at 18 because of the cuts that were made. | 7:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | So I got my first job down at Beaufort, North Carolina. | 8:31 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, really? | 8:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Uh-huh. And I taught a fifth grade class there. The funny thing about it is that I was 18 when I started and my children were 10, so the difference, there was only an eight year difference between many of us and most of us. So some of them now, I run in contact with them and so I said, "I know how old you are because I'm eight years older than you, I can reason your age." But anyway, that's just for fun. Then I only stayed there one year. I didn't like Beaufort because it was too far out and I just didn't like Beaufort, so I was able to get a job here in New Hanover County that next year, and I taught at Peabody that year. And I taught at Peabody for about two or three years then I was transferred over to Williston Primary, and I taught fourth grade and I stayed there. I stayed in New Hanover County until I retired. And I taught 31 years and all 30 years in New Hanover County and that one year in Beaufort. | 8:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I retired at 55 because I had some things I—Well, I'll go back to that. I had some other things that I just wanted to do in my life, so I had taught 31 years and so I decided that I would retire because I had children and they were out of school at the time. I'll go back now to that part of my life. | 9:49 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I married in 1941 and I had two sons, and one son was born in '44 and the other one was born in '46. My older son is a graduate of your school, University of Chapel Hill, and the younger one is a graduate of Duke, and they went through school here also. All of their schooling was done right here in the school system of New Hanover County. I've forgotten a thought I had to tell you on that too. Anyway, my husband died in '61 and my children were then 14 and 16, which meant one was a sophomore and one was—Anyway, they didn't have many more years at home with me. So at that age, it's a little hard to raise boys, and they were boys but they were good boys. I had no problems with them, but that was a part of our life that we just—A little sad part of our life right in there, but we went on through and we made it all right. | 10:09 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I was raised right here, as I say, on 7th and Queen. My mother was a school teacher. My father was a horse trader. Now, a horse trader in that day was the same as an automobile salesman is now because that was horse days more or less then. We didn't have much money but we had a little house over there on the corner of 7th and Queen, and we started buying this house but the depression got so bad, we lost the house. So we were able to rent it for a while and we continued staying there, and I loved that little house. Even now, I regret that I didn't, after I did get to the point that I could have bought it, that I didn't buy that land, but I didn't do it. | 11:44 |
Chris Stewart | What did it look like? | 12:34 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Just a little wooden shack house. There wasn't anything fabulous about it but it was just precious to me. But we grew up during the segregated days, but I didn't know anything about segregation because that was the way of life. I mean, I can remember when mother would take me downtown to places. Well, if you wanted something to eat, I know you're familiar with this, there was a five and ten cent store called Crest, and I remember if we wanted to have a soda or hot dog or something, even though there were seats along here, my mother always took me to the back of it because that was where Blacks were served. Well, I never questioned it. That was the way of life. And if you wanted to go to the bathroom, you had no bathrooms to go to because your face was Black and you just couldn't do that. Well, I just grew up that way. | 12:36 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | And my children came along and it was the same thing, and it wasn't until the sixties, as I said, one of my children—Well, that wasn't until the sixties that this change started coming about and they started questioning, my children started questioning me, "Well, why did you buy this? Why did you go into the stores?" And it was rather embarrassing but it was a way of life. If you wanted anything, that was the only way you could get it is to go into a store where there was segregation. But I think as times have gone on, they've understood more now but that was just the way it was. And as I said, we went to church very often. | 13:32 |
Chris Stewart | This was the St. Luke's Church? | 14:23 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | St. Luke's Church. St. Luke. | 14:24 |
Chris Stewart | What kind of activities did the church offer for young people? | 14:25 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | We had a young people's organization that was called Christian Endeavor, I believe they called it. And we would have little picnics and you just made your own activities. Well, we had to go there, the meeting was every Sunday afternoon. Of course, we had to go to Sunday school. And in fact, your whole life was just wrapped around the church completely because on Sunday morning, you had to go to church for the 11 o'clock service. Then the Sunday school then was after church. You always had Sunday school following the morning church service, then you had to come back in the afternoon to some kind of evening program. Then that night, at that time, they had night church too. Church services were twice a day, so we'd come back at 7:30 to the night program, so your whole life was wrapped around the church. | 14:31 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | That was Sunday. Then on Wednesday night, my mother and father always brought me to what they called—Wednesday night was what they called prayer meeting night. So I was an only child so I had to go every place that they went, I was with them. Then Friday night, they had something in the church that was called Class Leaders Night or something like that. Anyway, your lives were completely wrapped around the church. And then my mother was from Columbus County, which is up near Whiteville, and she was from the family called the Spaulding family. | 15:28 |
Chris Stewart | Really? | 16:07 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I guess you're familiar with that. | 16:07 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 16:12 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Okay. And my grandparents lived there, so in the summertime when school would close, my mother would always take me up to Columbus County in the country and I'd spend the summer in the country with my grandparents. | 16:12 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I liked it all right in the daytime, but when night came, I started getting a hurting in my chest because everything was black dark, and I had been used to at least street lights in the city. And the outdoor toilets and all the things like that. We had the running water in the city. Some people could go back to the time that they didn't have running water in the homes in the Wilmington, but we've always had that here. But I'd always go up there and spend the summers, and the church life up there was the same as it was here. They had a church that was called Rehoboth AME Zion Church. As I said, my whole family were just Methodist, indoctrinated into the Methodist faith. And I don't know whether you're familiar with Livingstone College or not in Salisbury. That was the church's school and that's where my mother went. My father was not a college man. My father might have finished school about the eighth and ninth grade but he was not a college man. | 16:28 |
Chris Stewart | Do you know how your mother and father met? | 17:33 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | My mother was sent to Wilmington, to Gregory Normal Institute, and my father was here as a horse trader, and they met in Wilmington and they married in Wilmington and stayed here their lifetime. Now, when my father died, my mother moved back to Columbus County with my grandfather because her mother had passed. And so she didn't take me out of school, I was still in school here. She didn't take me out of school but I had a very good friend here whose name was Dorothy Johnson, and her mother and father asked my mother to let me stay with them so I would not have to change schools, to go up in Columbus County to change schools, so I did. So I started living with this Johnson family, and of course I'd go up and visit my mother and grandfather. | 17:36 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | But the Johnson family had four children, two boys and two girls, and they became my brothers and sisters. And until this day, I feel like they are my real family members. Now, the four of them are dead but they have children and the children are my nieces and nephews. And so I just have a complete family, foster family I call that. | 18:38 |
Chris Stewart | How long did you live with them? | 19:08 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I lived with them until I married because the year that I went to Beaufort, of course I lived in Beaufort, when I came back to Wilmington to teach here, I went back and lived with the same Johnson family. And I started teaching here about 1935, '36, and I stayed there until 1941 when I married. | 19:10 |
Chris Stewart | So you were there quite a while? | 19:34 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I was, a long time, and she was like my second mother and he was just like my second father, and the children were my brothers and sisters so it was just a beautiful relationship. | 19:37 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Coming back to my mother, had a brother who was Reverend WM Spaulding who lived in Rocky Mount, and he had two sons, so therefore, there were three of us as grandchildren in that immediate family—Oscar, and I was the middle-aged one, and then the other one was Andrew McLean. Now, Andrew McLean lives in Salisbury. In fact, he's retired from Livingstone College, from Hood Seminary, he was a minister. And Oscar lives up in Halifax, up in the northeastern part of the state, and he was a principal of the Willis Hair High School at that particular time. But they all retired. All three of us are living but all of us have retired. But that was our immediate family but Oscar and Mac are just like my brothers because they would also come up in the country in the summer months to my grandparents' home and stay. | 19:54 |
Chris Stewart | What kinds of things would you do when you went up to visit? | 21:03 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | We worked in the farm. Our grandfather was a farmer so whatever the farmers did, we did. We picked beans, picked cotton, picked anything. We just worked. But there was very little recreation except when you would get off, you'd go back to church or something like that. Very little recreation. But I would help my grandmother with the cooking after we'd come off out of the fields, and of course the boys would help granddaddy with the feeding of the animals and whatnot. It was a good experience, good experience for us. | 21:06 |
Chris Stewart | Your grandfather owned all of his land? | 21:40 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | He owned all of his land, that's right. And he had a big farm there. | 21:42 |
Chris Stewart | In the area that you lived in with the Johnson's or with your own family? | 21:53 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yes, I do. On 7th and Queen, next door to me was a Dr. John W Kay and his family. He finally died and the family moved to Raleigh, and his widow just died here about a year or so ago and she was almost a hundred, I'm sure, but she was— And next to them was Shine, Miss Lou Shine, then next to them with the Boykins family, and some of those people are still there. Ironically, this summer, I had some of the younger ones who lived in that area, I had them in for lunch, and we reminisced. And there were some who were younger than I am but everybody was at least 70, and it was great fun. Those who are left, we just talked about things that happened during that era of time. Yeah, I remember many of the neighbors who were there. | 21:58 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | There was one lady whose name was Mrs. Paulson McFarland, and we called her Nana, and she was an elderly lady but she loved children. And she made brown dog candy and we all loved Nana for her brown dog candy. And we had another lady who lived across the street from me whose name was Mrs. Lucy, well, Lucy and Tom Smith. Now, they were well-to-do Black people. And I can't remember, I think he had a wood yard. I don't know why they were so well-to-do, but I remember the first car that was bought in Wilmington, I think they were about one of the first to buy, in Blacks, to buy a car. And I can remember them having teachers live there. They had a large home and she had teachers who would come in to teach who needed a room because there were no hotels, and they lived there. And she always had a lady to come in and do her cooking for the teachers, and I just thought that was something, for somebody to have a servant. Not servant, but somebody to help. | 23:08 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | And so they were very well-to-do, and of course, they lost out everything as the depression came and whatnot. But I remember them very well, the neighbors around there. There was a little doctor's office across the street there on another corner of 7th and Queen, Dr. Collins, I think his name was. Then right down the street on 7th Street was a family called the Crawley Family. You might hear that name in some of you goings. They're all dead now but they were great citizens of the community, and they taught— Catherine Crawley was my fourth grade teacher. Alice Crawley was a public health nurse. And then when I started teaching, Catherine, who was my fourth grade teacher, and I taught fourth grade together. | 24:18 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, my. | 25:07 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Which was a exciting thing for us. And my neighbors across when I lived with the Johnson family, there was an Elks Club right on the corner from us, and that was a Black Elks Club and I remember that. I can't think of the people's name, that it's been so long, but anyway, I remember them very well. And it was very pleasant. You didn't have to worry then about neighbors. You didn't have to worry then about even locking doors because everybody knew everybody and the crime was just so different. And this bothers me now to see where we've come today and comparing that with what our lives were when I grew up. However, the money is better and we are living I guess better, but I think we were happier, because everybody was a neighbor and you just didn't think about the crime and somebody coming in doing harm to you, whatnot. | 25:08 |
Chris Stewart | At what point in your life do you feel like people treated you like you were an adult? | 26:18 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I guess I'd say when I started teaching. Even though I was just 18, I think I started feeling more like an adult when I went to Beaufort, and from then on. | 26:27 |
Chris Stewart | What kinds of things did you experience in Beaufort that made you feel that way? | 26:41 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | In those days, teachers were special, and— | 26:50 |
Chris Stewart | They still are. | 26:57 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Well, not as much as they were then. And even though I was young, I was made to feel very special because I was the teacher, one of the teachers, so I think that would answer that. | 26:59 |
Chris Stewart | What kinds of values do you think that your parents and maybe perhaps the Johnsons gave to you to take into your adulthood? | 27:12 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Very strict morally. At that time, during those days, everybody could chastise you, everybody could discipline you. If the neighbors saw you out of line in any way and you were reported to your parents in any way, that would be just as much as if they had seen you do whatever you happened to have done themselves. Morals were very important. Well, we couldn't date until we were up there in high school. When I say high school, just about juniors and seniors. And then when you dated, you didn't date like dating is now. The young man could come in and talk with you and whatnot, and you couldn't dare go out unless you were to let them know where you were. | 27:26 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Now, coming back, I had something that came to my mind about radios. Radios came in existence during, it must have been in high school, the thirties. And we didn't have a radio, the Johnson family. I was with them, but there was a young lady, well, two girls whose father had gotten them a radio and they lived in the next block from us. We were living on 9th Street. So every afternoon, we would get permission to go up there so we can listen to the radio. And I'd think about that, how funny that was, that you'd go to somebody's house, come in and listen to the radio. But they had to know where we were. And my mother always had a room when I was a little girl that if I went out to someone's house to play, my rule was to be home before sundown. And I could see myself running and getting inside the gate before the sun, watching the sun and getting in there because you had to do that. That was just one of those things that you had to do. | 28:34 |
Chris Stewart | Who disciplined in your household? | 29:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | My mother was the disciplinarian because my father didn't believe in spanking, and I've never had—My mother spanked but my father did not, but my mother was the disciplinarian for me as an only child. Now, I can't say that for the Johnson household. The Johnson house, the father was the disciplinarian for his boys more or less. Now, Mrs. Johnson disciplined her two girls and me, but all of us had a little more discipline from Mr. Jake than—Yeah, that was true. But my mother was born or less disciplinarian for me. | 29:47 |
Chris Stewart | When you got married, did your mother have any words of wisdom about being a good wife or what it meant to be a good wife? Did she talk to you at all about— | 30:39 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yes, she did. She always wanted me to be independent though. She did not want me to be submissive, and that was one of the things that I could remember. And she always said—I was teaching and she said, "Now, you might not have much money and you must work with your husband on what you're getting, but always have a few dollars of your own that nobody knows that you have but you." And that was to me a good word of wisdom because I followed that, and there were times that I was very happy that I had that independent feeling. Yes, I did get some words of wisdom from her on that line. I couldn't cook when I married. | 30:52 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, my. | 31:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I couldn't cook, so anyway, I had to learn that from her as well. So she remarried too after my grandfather died. I left that out. After my grandfather died, my mother remarried and she moved to Elizabethtown where her husband was. And my stepfather was Sheridan, Mr. Tom Sheridan, who was a great person, very, very nice to me as well. So I told him my third father, Mr. Johnson and then with him. | 31:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | This is my 75th birthday. To present a short story of my life for my family is my desire. This video is my expression of love to each of you from me, Caronell Spalding Carter Chestnut. On Christmas Day, December 5th 1915, I was born in Wilmington, North Carolina at 702 Queens Street, which was on the southeastern corner of 7th and Queens Streets. My parents were James Ernest Carter Jr, my father, whose home was Greenville, South Carolina, and Anna Doris Spalding Carter Sheridan. My mother, whose home was in Columbus County, Whiteville North Carolina. My stepfather was George Thomas Sheridan from Elizabethtown, North Carolina. I was blessed with parents who made me feel like the most special girl in the world. I had no brothers or sisters. I regret that I do not have a picture of my father. I looked like my father. | 32:26 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | My paternal grandparents were James Ernest Carter Senior and Emma Josephine Carter. My maternal grandparents, Andrew Thomas Spalding and Anna Mariah Spalding, were cousins. He was one of the sons of Emmanuel Spalding and Susan Gomez Spalding. He was born on August 17th 1859, and died July 16th 1934. My grandmother was one of the daughters of David Spalding, who was Emmanuel's brother and married Davis Spalding. She was born April 1st 1856, and died on May 10th 1929. My mother had one brother, Reverend Willy McClain Spalding, and two sisters, Abbey and Ava. | 33:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Uncle Matt was an AME Zion minister and was married to Carrie MacMullin Spalding. They were parents of two sons, Andrew McClean Spalding and Oscar Barton Spalding, who are like brothers to me. Mac is also a Methodist minister and recently retired from the faculty of Hood Seminary at Livingston College in Salisbury, North Carolina. His wife, Dr. Olivia Tarintine Spalding, retired as assistant to the president of Livingston College. Oscar, a retired high school principal, is married to Ethanol Wilson Spalding, a retired librarian. They have two children, Oscar Junior and Yvonne. Aunt Carrie, their mother, is 99 years old. | 34:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | I attended Gregory Elementary School, which was located at that time on the northwestern corner of 7th and Nun Streets. My high school years were at Williston Industrial High School, located on South 10th Street, graduating in June, 1932. At the time graduation had arrived at age 16, I had made up my mind that I wanted to be a teacher like my mother. My father, who was a horse trader, died shortly after my graduation. These were in the depression days when money was scarce. I was barely able to attend the Federal State Normal School, but I did and graduated after completing a two-year normal teaching course. Thus, I began teaching at age 18. I had to attend summer school for several summers to obtain a BS degree. Of course, without night, we'd never come to appreciate day, and without obstacles, we'd never be able to fully realize how magnificent are the many gifts and blessings of life bestowed upon us by God. | 35:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | My first teaching position was a fifth grade in Beaufort, North Carolina in 1934/1935. I was only eight years older than my pupils. The next year, 1935/1936, I returned home and began teaching at Peabody School, transferred to Wilson Primary School in 1936/1937, which was the same building that I had attended in high school. By this time, my mother had remarried to Mr. George Thomas Sheridan and they lived in Elizabethtown, North Carolina. I visited them often but I continued to live in Wilmington. I lived with Mr. And Mrs. Jacob Johnson and their children. I was like one of the family and stayed in their home until I married. I considered their children my sisters and brothers. Their family today continues to be a very close, integral part of my life. Their children are my own nieces and nephews. | 36:58 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | I met my husband to be, Wayne Hampton Chestnut II, and we fell in love. He was a native Wilmingtonian. He and his two brothers, Bertram, whose wife was Alice Maria Chestnut, and Robert, whose wife was Ethyn Miller Chestnut, had a very prosperous automobile garage business on the northeastern corner of 6th and Campbell Streets at that time. On June 29th 1941, we were married. We spent our honeymoon at Atlantic Beach, South Carolina. | 38:15 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Having been a Methodist all of my early life, after my marriage, I was confirmed in St. Mark's Episcopal Church in August 1941 so that the family could worship together. The three Chestnut wives were confirmed in this class. On March 22nd 1944, our first son, Wayne Hampton Chestnut III was born. He was christened in the same gown that his father and the other Chestnut children were christened in. Almost two years later, our second son, Kenneth Spalding Chestnut was born on February 1st, 1946. They and their families have meant everything in the world to me. | 38:54 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | In 1949, my husband invested in the development of some beach property on the Topsail Island and named the area Ocean City Beach. It's the simple joys and pleasures that we remember and dearly treasure. Watching our sons develop and grow up were both interesting and enjoyable. They were cowboys of action during the Christmas of 1951. I am filled with memory making moments that warm my heart. Robert Burn's words in his Auld Lang Syne come to my mind. Should all acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind? Should all acquaintance be forgot and days of Auld Lang Syne? | 39:46 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Kenneth won a bicycle from the Firestone Company with the lucky ticket. He still has this bike in Atlanta. The Chestnut cousins had fun together. They are Barbara, Mabel, Robert Junior and Fanny. Many summers found down together enjoying bathing in the ocean. Wayne, Fred and Beth Jr. Edwin Kirklin Jr. Joe Bell Jr. Kenneth and Jimmy Coat also enjoyed these outings on the beach. It was the family custom to spend Thanksgiving at the beach. Friends were invited to share an oyster roast. Youngsters who came with their parents played games on the strand. Wade, Constance Colston, Gordon and Malcolm Wilkins, Diane White and Kenneth bundled up from the brisk winds. | 40:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Wade and Kenneth were Cub Scouts and little Boy Scouts. They both received the highest religious award, God and Country, at the same time. This required spending 100 hours with their priest, working in church and community activities and projects. Sadness came to our family when their father died suddenly on January 7th 1961, when Kenneth was 14 years old and Wayne was 16 years old. High school graduation from Williston Senior High School came in June, 1962 for Wayne III. He received his BA degree in Business Administration from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1966. He later received a Master's degree in Business Administration from Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois. | 41:50 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Kenneth graduated from Williston in June, 1964. Both of them were honors students. Kenneth received a full four-year scholarship to Duke University in Durham, majoring in civil engineering, graduating in May 1968. The summer of 1966 was quite eventful for my family. During the years that Wade and Kent were in college, I attended summer school at North Carolina Central University in Durham and received a master's degree in elementary education, graduating in May, 1966, the same month that Wade had graduated. Wade's fiance, Winona McDowell Swift also graduated from Bennett College that month. Wedding plans were in the making for Wade and Winona. They married on June 25th, 1966 in Charlotte, North Carolina. | 42:56 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Special family occasions are always fun. My brother cousin, Oscar, and his wife, Et, celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary in 1964. They celebrated their 50th anniversary this past year in 1989. Kenneth's first job was in San Francisco, where he met his bride to be, Carol Hardge from Dallas, Texas. After being drafted in the army for the Vietnam War, he and Carol were married in Dallas in 1969. I have always wanted a daughter, and now God has blessed me with two wonderful daughters, Carol and Winona. Life has started all over for me. The young years of happiness have come again in a sweeter form than a mother could ever guess. The love and devotion I gave my children I thought I could give no other, but life held a lovely surprise for me. I became grandmother. | 44:05 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | As the years passed. I was blessed with five wonderful grandchildren, Felicia, Carol Michelle, Kenneth Junior, Wayne IV and Bertrum Carter. Watching them grow from christenings to graduations has made me so grateful to God for his goodness. After becoming 55 years old and having taught school for 31 years, I retired in 1971. Entertainments and gifts from coworkers and friends during this time made this another happy occasion. One of my applications is travel. I have been in all of the 50 states in our country and visited several countries in various parts of the world and many of the Caribbean Islands. Some of them are Alaska, Hawaii, Cara South America, Holy Land— | 45:16 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. Ready? | 0:13 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 0:13 |
Chris Stewart | Are you? Not really. | 0:13 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Not really. | 0:13 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | —and began teaching at Peabody School. | 0:19 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | Robert Burns' words in his Auld Lang Syne— | 0:24 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, yeah, no. | 0:24 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | — [indistinct 00:00:28], Hong Kong, Red China, Switzerland, Greece, and Canada. In addition to its providing me with relaxation, I learned a great deal— | 0:29 |
Chris Stewart | —envelope downstairs. | 0:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut (video recording) | [indistinct 00:00:44]. | 0:38 |
Chris Stewart | I'd like to just start with your full name. | 0:45 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Caronell, C-A-R-O-N-E-L-L, Carter- | 0:48 |
Chris Stewart | I'm just going to—Mm-hmm. | 0:57 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | —Chestnut. | 1:00 |
Chris Stewart | Two Ts on Chestnut or one? | 1:06 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | One C-H-E-S-T-N-U-T. | 1:07 |
Chris Stewart | Your maiden name is Carter? | 1:11 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | My maiden name is Carter. My mother's maiden name was Spaulding. My maiden name is Carter. | 1:12 |
Chris Stewart | Your current address is 37— | 1:18 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | 37 Mercer Avenue. | 1:20 |
Chris Stewart | Your phone number? | 1:30 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | (919) 762-5993. | 1:31 |
Chris Stewart | How would you like your name to appear in any written material that results from this tape? | 1:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Caronell Carter Chestnut. The Spaulding was my middle name before I took the Carter, but I mean, just put the Carter's fine. | 1:44 |
Chris Stewart | Your date of birth is December— | 2:01 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | December 25th, 1915. | 2:03 |
Chris Stewart | You were born here in Wilmington? | 2:10 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | That's right. | 2:11 |
Chris Stewart | You're widowed? | 2:17 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Widowed, yes. | 2:17 |
Chris Stewart | Your spouse's name? | 2:19 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Wade Hampton Chestnut, II. | 2:20 |
Chris Stewart | His date of birth? | 2:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | October 30th, 1907. | 2:38 |
Chris Stewart | And he died— | 2:43 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | January 6th, 1961. | 2:45 |
Chris Stewart | Where was he born? | 2:51 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Wilmington. | 2:52 |
Chris Stewart | His occupation? | 2:59 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | He was an auto mechanic and a land developer. Auto mechanic first, then became later a land developer. | 3:01 |
Chris Stewart | Were there any other areas that he developed? | 3:14 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | No, he just had real estate here in this city with no development. | 3:18 |
Chris Stewart | Your mother's name? | 3:22 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Annie. | 3:23 |
Chris Stewart | A-N-N-I-E or just E? | 3:26 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | A-N-N-I-E. Now that's a long name. Let me see which one. Annie. Dora Spaulding Carter Sheridan. Now, which you want to cut up? | 3:27 |
Chris Stewart | We'll just put it all down. | 3:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | All right. Annie Dora Spaulding Carter Sheridan. | 3:37 |
Chris Stewart | D-A-N or D-R? | 3:50 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | S-H-E-R-I-D-A-N? | 3:52 |
Chris Stewart | Her maiden name was Spaulding? | 3:56 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Spaulding. | 3:57 |
Chris Stewart | Her date of birth? | 4:01 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | March 25th, 1890—I don't remember that. Did I say it on that? | 4:03 |
Chris Stewart | What year did she die? | 4:19 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | She died February 1944. | 4:21 |
Chris Stewart | How old was she when she died? | 4:29 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | 53. Uh-huh. Yeah. Was was she 53? Maybe it was 53. Huh. How did that slip me now? | 4:30 |
Chris Stewart | That would've been nine years, 1891. Actually, it would've been 1890. | 4:38 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I think she's '92. | 4:43 |
Chris Stewart | '92. | 4:43 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I think she was born 1892. | 4:43 |
Chris Stewart | That's what it would've been. | 4:45 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. | 4:47 |
Chris Stewart | She was born in— | 4:47 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Whiteville. | 4:48 |
Chris Stewart | Whiteville. | 4:49 |
Chris Stewart | I wish I could remember the name of the gentleman. We entered the first name of the gentleman, but we interviewed a Mr. Spaulding— | 4:49 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Did you? | 5:00 |
Chris Stewart | —in Whiteville on Monday. | 5:01 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I bet that was John Andrew Spaulding. | 5:02 |
Chris Stewart | Perhaps. I didn't do the interview. | 5:04 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I'm sure. | 5:05 |
Chris Stewart | But the woman was there for about five hours she was with him. | 5:06 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I know he's—He has written a book for us, Spaulding family book. | 5:09 |
Chris Stewart | Really? Really? | 5:12 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yeah, he's full of history. | 5:12 |
Chris Stewart | He took Kara around, all around the area. | 5:14 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | The cemetery around? Yeah. | 5:17 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, she was fascinated. | 5:18 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I know. He's really our historian. I'm glad you've gotten him. | 5:19 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. Yeah. She said— | 5:24 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yeah, he's one to get. | 5:28 |
Chris Stewart | She said it was wonderful. | 5:29 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yeah. | 5:29 |
Chris Stewart | It was really wonderful. | 5:29 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | He was the one to get, right, right. | 5:30 |
Chris Stewart | Your mother's occupation? | 5:30 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | She was a teacher. | 5:31 |
Chris Stewart | Your father's name? | 5:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | James Ernest Carter, horse trader. | 5:36 |
Chris Stewart | His date of birth? | 5:48 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | He was two years older than my mother. | 5:53 |
Chris Stewart | '90? 1890? | 5:57 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Okay. And his also was March. | 5:59 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. When did he— | 6:02 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | 25th. I think we both had the same birthdates. | 6:04 |
Chris Stewart | Isn't that handy. When did he pass? | 6:10 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. He died 1932, that summer. Must have been about July 1932, something like that. | 6:11 |
Chris Stewart | He was born— | 6:25 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Greenville, South Carolina. | 6:26 |
Chris Stewart | One of my fellow students is from Greenville. | 6:33 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Is that so? | 6:36 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. You don't have any brothers and sisters? | 6:39 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | No, I'm only child. | 6:41 |
Chris Stewart | Children's names? | 6:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | All right. I have one is Wade Hampton Chestnut, III. | 6:45 |
Chris Stewart | His birthdate? | 6:56 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | March 22nd, 1944. | 6:59 |
Chris Stewart | Was he born here in Wilmington? | 7:04 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Right here in Wilmington. | 7:06 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 7:07 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Then Kenneth Spaulding Chestnut, Sr. | 7:08 |
Chris Stewart | When was he born? | 7:22 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | February 1st, 1946. | 7:25 |
Chris Stewart | Here in Wilmington, as well? | 7:29 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yes, right. | 7:30 |
Chris Stewart | You have five grandchildren, right? | 7:30 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Five grandchildren. | 7:31 |
Chris Stewart | Your residential history, you started out here in Wilmington? | 7:37 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. All right. Except for going to college, you want to put that in as residence? | 7:41 |
Chris Stewart | No. | 7:53 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Beaufort residence when I taught there, Beaufort, North Carolina. | 7:54 |
Chris Stewart | You were in Wilmington then until '30— | 7:58 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Well, you see, I went to college from '32 to '34, and I was still a Wilmington resident. But I started teaching in '34, '35. That's the year that I taught at Beaufort, '34, '35. | 8:03 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. Okay. | 8:36 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 8:36 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Then the rest of my life, I've been here. Mm-hmm. | 8:36 |
Chris Stewart | Education history, your education history? | 8:39 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Okay. You want the names of the schools or what do you want? | 8:41 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 8:44 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | All right. Williston Primary was my first grade school and many of these schools' names are going to be— | 8:45 |
Chris Stewart | Have changed? | 8:55 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. | 8:56 |
Chris Stewart | But what we want is the names when you were attending. | 8:56 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Okay. | 8:59 |
Chris Stewart | That was for first grade? | 9:01 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | First grade. | 9:02 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 9:08 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Gregory Elementary, second through fifth grades. | 9:08 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Williston Industrial High School, from sixth through 11th grades. All right. | 9:22 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Federal State Normal School—Now, let me see how do you want to do this? I went those two years from '32 to '34, but I had to go back summers to complete my four years. And I went back to Fayetteville, but I just went in the summertime. Now I was a student there from '32 to '34. | 9:39 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. Did you receive any degree at in '34? | 10:08 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | No, I just got a normal— | 10:12 |
Chris Stewart | A teaching certificate? | 10:15 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | —certificate. A B teaching certificate. | 10:20 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. Then you continued— | 10:25 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. Through summers. | 10:26 |
Chris Stewart | I'm going to back. How many summers did you say? | 10:31 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | I completed it in 1940, so that would be— | 10:41 |
Chris Stewart | And that was a BS or a BA? | 10:51 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | BS | 10:56 |
Chris Stewart | BS. In elementary Education? | 10:56 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Elementary Education. | 10:58 |
Chris Stewart | I'm going to say summers. | 11:07 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | That would be about from '36 to '40, '35 to '40, I guess. | 11:11 |
Chris Stewart | Okay. | 11:12 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Then North Carolina Central University. It was not called that at that time it was called— | 11:19 |
Chris Stewart | North Carolina College for Negroes? | 11:27 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | No, it had changed to the next one. There's one between that and now. North Carolina—What did they call that thing that—Oh, it wasn't North Carolina College—In 1966, it changed North Carolina College at Durham. | 11:30 |
Chris Stewart | Oh, that's right. | 11:50 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | You know when you get older you forget a lot of things. | 11:57 |
Chris Stewart | I know, right? Absolutely remarkable. In 1966, you received your master's— | 12:01 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Right, Masters in Elementary Education. | 12:07 |
Chris Stewart | Now we're to your work history. | 12:24 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | All right. I taught all of the—You mean you want to schools that I taught in here in Wilmington? | 12:26 |
Chris Stewart | We don't— | 12:35 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | See, all of my years except for that one year have been done in New Hanover County. | 12:37 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. | 12:41 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | So from 1935 to 1971, New Hanover County schools. And that 1934-35 year was at Beaufort. | 12:41 |
Chris Stewart | What grade did you teach, fourth, fifth? | 12:59 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | In Beaufort, I taught fifth grade. | 13:01 |
Chris Stewart | Fifth grade. | 13:02 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Now, there were times in New Hanover County that I have taught from third through seventh grades because it was a time we had changing of classes. But most of my years were fourth grade teaching years. But I have taught from third through seventh. | 13:07 |
Chris Stewart | From 1935 to 1971? | 13:32 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Mm-hmm. I've had 31 years teaching experience. One in Beaufort and 30 here. | 13:36 |
Chris Stewart | Mm-hmm. Have you ever received any awards or honors or held any offices? | 13:43 |
Caronell Carter Chestnut | Yes, I have, a lot of them. All right, let's see. [indistinct 00:13:56]. You come, let's go in the room here, I can show you— | 13:49 |
Item Info
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