Easter Sanders interview recording, 1994 January 28

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Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Sanders, can we start off when and where you were born? Basically where you're from and—	0:05
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. You ready?	0:13
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	0:15
Easter Hinton Sanders	I was born in Wake County, 1901.	0:17
Paul Ortiz	Okay, we're going to— start that over now. I'm not getting anything off of this now. Test, test, test.	0:21
Easter Hinton Sanders	[indistinct 00:00:51] question.	1:00
Paul Ortiz	Same old stuff. Short.	1:00
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yes.	1:00
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Could we start over and can you just—	1:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yes. Do you want to ask me questions?	1:03
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	1:05
Easter Hinton Sanders	And then I'll answer them, because I don't know exactly what you want.	1:10
Paul Ortiz	Yeah. Right now— Okay. Mrs. Sanders, can we start off with when and where you were born?	1:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	I was born in Wake County, September the 1st, 1901.	1:26
Paul Ortiz	Exactly what kind of town did you grow up in, and what was it like?	1:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	Auburn, North Carolina.	1:46
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell us a little bit about your family, where your parents were from and what their names were?	1:46
Easter Hinton Sanders	My parents were Julia and Richmond Hinton. They were born in Wake County.	1:54
Paul Ortiz	What kind of work did they do?	2:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	They farmed. We lived on a farm out near Johnson County.	2:10
Joe	Johnson Farm.	2:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	Johnson Farm. We would go to work in the morning around 6:00 and work until 12:00, go home and eat dinner, and stay at a house until 1:30 every day, and then we'd go back to the field and work. Chop cotton, pick cotton. I came along at all those times way back then. We would have hog killing for our own meat to eat. I don't know. I think I mentioned chopping and cotton. We lived on a farm. Didn't I do that?	2:16
Joe	Yeah.	3:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	My parents with their own seven children. I was the oldest girl. I had three brothers older than I, and there was seven. Now, I have to name my sisters and brothers? Roscoe Hinton. Well, they all the Hintons, when I say it. Roscoe was the oldest and Ira was the next. Vivian was the next, and he got killed in an automobile accident. I don't remember what year it was.	3:19
Joe	1925.	4:11
Easter Hinton Sanders	19 and 25. I was the oldest daughter of five girls. Name them?	4:13
Paul Ortiz	Sure.	4:25
Easter Hinton Sanders	Fannie, Tina, Julie, and Effie.	4:30
Paul Ortiz	Did your family own the farm?	4:51
Joe	Tenant.	4:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	No.	4:55
Joe	Tenant.	4:55
Paul Ortiz	Tenant?	4:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	Tenant, mm-hmm.	4:57
Paul Ortiz	What was that like? What kind of relations did you have with—	4:59
Easter Hinton Sanders	With?	5:05
Paul Ortiz	— say, the owner? Were the relations—	5:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	The owner?	5:08
Joe	Talking about Eddie.	5:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	Eddie Poole was the owner of the farm and house, Eddie Poole. We farmed with him. We'd get up around 6:00 in the morning and go to the field and work, and chop cotton, pick cotton, pull fodder and corn.	5:19
Paul Ortiz	Did your parents do any other kind of work during the year, during the off—season?	5:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	My parents farmed all of—	5:53
Paul Ortiz	All the year?	5:56
Easter Hinton Sanders	— the year round. They farmed. They raised cotton, corn, tea, beans. We didn't go to the store to buy anything because they would kill their hogs in the fall, and they would always make their own sausage and have meat all the year round until the next year and make— Have the lard and our cows. We'd get milk from them to have butter and milk, and that's what the children were raised up on. By being the oldest girl, I would have to cook for them, the other brothers and sisters. And then, I had to stand in a chair turned around, being so young and cooking for the family. I'd roll out the door to make the biscuits. My mother'd be in the upper part of the house with a newborn baby, probably. Could you ask a question I could—	5:56
Paul Ortiz	Do you know, remember where your parents were born?	7:38
Joe	Wake County.	7:41
Easter Hinton Sanders	Wake County.	7:41
Paul Ortiz	Wake County.	7:41
Easter Hinton Sanders	Wake County. My parents were born in Wake County.	7:45
Joe	On the village on the other side of the river, the Neuse River.	7:54
Paul Ortiz	What were your parents like? Do you remember much about them?	8:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	My parents were like, and what?	8:06
Paul Ortiz	How did they raise you? What, say, values, things did they teach, for instance?	8:12
Easter Hinton Sanders	They taught us to go to church on Sundays. They would take us to church, and we would go to church on a wagon, and be at the church on time at that time. Then after so long, we were getting a surrey, they call it, two-seated— Four seat and with the tassels hanging down on there. And so, many times after other people were getting cars, we were ashamed to go to church riding on a wagon. We'd tell our father and mother to let us get off just before we would get to the church.	8:25
Easter Hinton Sanders	We walked, and my daddy said one time, "Do you children know that just my wife and I didn't leave home on this wagon?" He said, "You all are making us feel bad, go riding up on the wagon and nobody but just the two of us," because we'd get out and we'd go walking to church. It was shame because a few people had cars and we didn't have one. We had revival church.	9:23
Paul Ortiz	What kind of church was it?	10:05
Easter Hinton Sanders	Baptist church.	10:05
Paul Ortiz	Baptist church.	10:11
Easter Hinton Sanders	Baptist church out in the country. A Baptist church, and we attended the same church all the way through up until a few years when they tore the church down because it was falling down. Yeah. We had a cemetery right behind the church for burial. That's where my parents were buried. They had the funeral in this. Good Hope Baptist Church was the name of the church. Good Hope Baptist Church.	10:12
Paul Ortiz	When did you start going to school?	11:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	I started going to school when I was six years old, and we had to walk in the cold.	11:03
Paul Ortiz	Were you able to go to school all year round, or did you—	11:13
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	11:15
Joe	You didn't go to school when you were [indistinct 00:11:23].	11:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	First started the four-month school because the children's parents, they would have to work on the farm and went to the four to six months, and then they got it to eight months.	11:29
Paul Ortiz	How did it get to eight months?	11:47
Easter Hinton Sanders	I really don't know. Because all the children wouldn't have anything to do, I imagine, to get from eight months. The parents of the children got the understanding what to do, a better understanding what to do to farm and got machines and different things to do it. At the same time, when I was on the farm, we used mules and horses and plows.	11:50
Paul Ortiz	Basically, there was a change of methods—	12:41
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	12:47
Paul Ortiz	—in farming. Was it a new kind of plow or a—	12:47
Speaker 4	It became a little bit more mechanized.	12:50
Easter Hinton Sanders	Uh-huh, right.	12:52
Speaker 4	That really benefited bringing up the kids.	12:55
Joe	It went from manual to machinery.	12:56
Paul Ortiz	Right.	12:56
Easter Hinton Sanders	Manual to machinery. And so, that cut down the family from going out in the field to do the work. They had the machinery to do that.	13:02
Paul Ortiz	Was part of going to school longer— was that something that your parents really emphasized, that they wanted you to go to school longer?	13:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. They wanted to go to school longer, and they have longer time to go to school. Then, at the same time, we could go to school and do our housework better. Mm-hmm.	13:24
Speaker 4	I remember, she taught school for many, many, many, many years. You'd have to get her to tell you about that, teaching school and all that.	13:44
Paul Ortiz	When did you start teaching?	14:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	I started teaching school in 19 and 25, and I taught up until 19 and 60, but I was at different schools.	14:06
Paul Ortiz	1925 to 19— That's a long time.	14:34
Easter Hinton Sanders	34 years.	14:34
Joe	May I say something for her? At that time, when you finished high school, you could teach. She finished high school and she started teaching, and she's finished her [indistinct 00:14:47] high school. Then, after which they had what they called extension courses. You could go and take these courses in the evenings. She went and took courses in the evening and taught, and then she finished college that way and got her degree.	14:35
Paul Ortiz	Why did you choose to be a teacher? Was that something you had planned all the way through—	15:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	I planned that all the way through. When I was young, I always wanted to be a teacher, and so many times I would be at the house reading or writing or something, and my mother said, "What are you doing? You're supposed to be cleaning the house." I said, "I'm reading up on something." I just wanted to be a teacher and follow with my aunt who was a teacher.	15:11
Paul Ortiz	At first, did your parents understand at first, or were they skeptical or—	15:39
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. My parents understood because they wanted me to get an education and learn to fight and look out for myself. I said that, and I helped the family too when I started teaching. My money wasn't my money because I'd have to send it to my— Help the children because the parents were dead.	15:51
Speaker 4	Years ago, see, Black families, it's the older child got a job. You had to give back to the family, help the rest come along. See, that's the way it was. You had to contribute to the family. Come up that way today.	16:24
Paul Ortiz	Now, you started teaching in 1925.	16:44
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	16:47
Paul Ortiz	What kind of schoolhouse were you in? What kind of structure?	16:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	Old schoolhouse with a heater in there, and then had to use coal and wood. In the summer, the parents would come out and make the fire before we would get to school so the school would be warm. We walked to school seven miles. When we'd get to school, we'd have to go up, there's so many of them at the time, and we'd go to this heater and warm. They had curtains drawn to divide their teachers from their other teachers, the students.	16:56
Paul Ortiz	What grades were you teaching at first?	17:46
Easter Hinton Sanders	When I taught, I taught the first grade two years, and then we got another teachers because there was so many children in the first grade. Then, I taught the second, third, and fourth, and fifth. But at the same time, they had other teachers to come in. One would teach first, second. The others'd teach third and fourth on up to the seventh grade.	17:48
Paul Ortiz	What kind of subjects did you emphasize when you were teaching in those days?	18:33
Easter Hinton Sanders	Most emphasized English, or as some say, language.	18:40
Joe	The three Rs.	18:51
Paul Ortiz	The three Rs.	18:51
Easter Hinton Sanders	Three Rs, reading, writing, and arithmetic.	18:52
Paul Ortiz	And then, this was still in Wake County?	18:56
Easter Hinton Sanders	In Wake County.	18:58
Paul Ortiz	This school. Do you remember the name of the school?	18:59
Easter Hinton Sanders	Springfield.	19:01
Paul Ortiz	Springfield.	19:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Well, first I was in Greene County.	19:03
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	19:03
Speaker 4	Where is Greene County? Do you know?	19:04
Joe	Greene County is Snow Hill.	19:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	Snow Hill.	19:12
Speaker 4	Okay.	19:12
Paul Ortiz	Now, you said that there was a lot of kids. What were the occupations of their parents, mainly?	19:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	Farming.	19:25
Joe	Farming.	19:25
Paul Ortiz	Farming. Was it an eight-month school or a—	19:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	It went—	19:33
Joe	Not to begin with.	19:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. Just like I said, it went through to this fourth, fifth, elementary school.	19:36
Paul Ortiz	Now, during this time, were your parents still alive or—	19:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	My father— No. I'll just say no.	19:58
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	20:07
Joe	Her mother lived.	20:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mother lived and took care of the children with my help, I'll say.	20:07
Paul Ortiz	You were doing a lot of different things—	20:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	20:16
Paul Ortiz	— the teaching and that. It must've been pretty demanding.	20:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	Well, that's because when I first started teaching, my money didn't go to my sister. It went to my mother to help take care of the little ones.	20:22
Joe	Don't point at me.	20:40
Paul Ortiz	At the time, were you still living at home or—	20:41
Easter Hinton Sanders	I was still living at home. Mm-hmm.	20:44
Paul Ortiz	During those years now, by this time, you're in your twenties. What were the influences that you had at this time?	20:46
Easter Hinton Sanders	To?	21:01
Paul Ortiz	Where did you get your news from? Okay. Let's try it that way.	21:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Well, I did get the news from different people coming around talking and telling you different things like that, and then some— I was taking that News & Observer paper. Let me see.	21:07
Speaker 4	Well, was there a radio?	21:33
Joe	No.	21:36
Speaker 4	You didn't have no radio?	21:37
Joe	No.	21:37
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. Didn't have no radio or no television.	21:38
Speaker 4	Wasn't no television.	21:40
Joe	I'm trying to tell— Farmers. There was a farmer's paper.	21:42
Easter Hinton Sanders	Farmer's Magazine. I think it was called—	21:42
Joe	I can't remember. I can't get the exact name of it right now.	21:42
Paul Ortiz	Was it a general one? Was it a Black farmers?	21:54
Joe	Mm-hmm.	21:57
Paul Ortiz	Black farmers magazine?	21:57
Joe	Mm-hmm.	21:58
Paul Ortiz	Was there an organization of Black farmers that put that out?	21:59
Joe	Yeah, but I can't think of the name of it now.	22:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	I can't either. I don't know. I remember, but I can't think of it.	22:03
Paul Ortiz	Was it a cooperative, maybe? Or—	22:03
Joe	I believe that was it, but that wasn't the name of it. I think that's who put it out, now.	22:16
Paul Ortiz	That's interesting. Now, during this time, did you get any information from say, Black newspapers?	22:23
Joe	They didn't have it.	22:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	They didn't have it.	22:31
Paul Ortiz	Okay. What—	22:31
Joe	I was saying they had it after her. I'm not talking about my sister, now I'm talking about her. I can remember things about her. See, the school board, it was all mostly Blacks in the community, and they'd come around and talk with her, some of the elder men that went on that committee. One in particular I know was Mr. Snow Smith.	22:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	Snow committee.	22:54
Joe	He had peers that were informed on different things. He'd come by and he would talk to us all about things. I was a little kid, but I remember him.	22:55
Paul Ortiz	Did you ever have other guest speakers, people that would come through the area and give talks?	23:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	To the school, we had a supervisor. The lady called as supervisor, she'd come to the school and then talk, and then when— Some weekends, we would go to a place called Raleigh here and to have teachers' conference.	23:12
Paul Ortiz	What was that, now? Was this a public school?	23:37
Easter Hinton Sanders	Public school.	23:41
Paul Ortiz	It was a public school. Just in your opinion, were you getting the kind of funding that you needed to run—	23:42
Easter Hinton Sanders	Fund?	23:50
Joe	Mm-hmm.	23:50
Easter Hinton Sanders	No, not to run.	23:53
Speaker 4	No, no, not running, money.	23:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	For teaching.	23:54
Speaker 4	Money.	23:54
Paul Ortiz	Money, money.	23:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	Money. Yeah.	23:54
Speaker 4	To run the school.	23:54
Joe	No.	23:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	No, didn't get any. Different ones at that time would come to the school and help when we'd have programs and things like that, the parents—	23:59
Speaker 4	Right.	24:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	—well, of the children.	24:07
Joe	No. The county was not funding the school properly, not at that time. It was Charlotte that financed.	24:08
Paul Ortiz	Where did you get the materials from? Books and desks and things, were they—	24:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	They had a— called bookstore, and they'd buy the books from this store, and sometimes they'd rent them, as superintendent of the school would finance them.	24:32
Paul Ortiz	Maybe going back a little before this time. When you were growing up, do you remember— I mean, obviously the church was a big part of your family's life. What kind of activities did you do during that time? Were there any community activities where people got together?	24:51
Joe	Mm-hmm. We'd have church picnics.	25:15
Easter Hinton Sanders	Let me see. Church picnics, and we'd go to different homes. People in the community would get together and they would cook their dinner and fixed everything. We would go to their home, and sometimes they'd come to our house. We'd go to school and have a get-together there, and sometimes we'd have selling to get things for the school, and people would buy them.	25:19
Joe	They called them box parties.	26:00
Paul Ortiz	Box parties?	26:01
Joe	Mm-hmm.	26:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	26:01
Paul Ortiz	Is that something that you—	26:04
Joe	They'd have different ones in parks and all, and it was a lot of fun because some of the girls' boyfriends, if they had somebody bidding, and they maybe had more than one boyfriend that'd be trying to outbid and stuff.	26:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	The bid.	26:28
Joe	[indistinct 00:26:28], all right? Whatever it was. That's one of the things they had now at that time. In addition to ballgames, baseball, sand lot baseball.	26:28
Paul Ortiz	Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good question, that one of the questions we're interested in is other recreational things, what people did with leisure time when you had it.	26:38
Easter Hinton Sanders	Sometimes, they would have— What is it? Track race. Are you talking about the activities at the school?	26:58
Joe	There was recreational activities. You have May Day. That was the—	27:12
Easter Hinton Sanders	May Day festival.	27:19
Joe	—May Day festival.	27:19
Easter Hinton Sanders	Festival.	27:19
Joe	All the different types of games and things at the time. Competition was getting rough.	27:19
Paul Ortiz	Who organized that? Was that the—	27:23
Easter Hinton Sanders	The teachers would.	27:25
Paul Ortiz	The teachers would?	27:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yes, and sometimes the superintendent would come in, superintendent of the school, and then tell us some things to do.	27:28
Paul Ortiz	Now, was this just the kids, or was it the kids and the families? Was it the whole?	27:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	The whole, most of. Now, the parents, the family would take these things and get them together, and the kids would help sell some of the things that we had for selling.	27:55
Paul Ortiz	This was during May Day.	28:13
Easter Hinton Sanders	May Day.	28:15
Paul Ortiz	Did you have other events throughout the year?	28:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. We have, just like I said, our box parties and programming. Sometimes you pay at the door to get some money. Thanksgiving, all holidays, we would have something. Mm-hmm.	28:19
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember, though, in those years? Let's say in the 1920s when you were teaching, what do you remember about the kids? Or the kids, they came to school and they were obviously from farming families. Were they eager to learn? Were they—	28:40
Easter Hinton Sanders	Some of them were and some of them didn't care whether they learned or not. They had to have a—	29:05
Speaker 4	Tell you a little joke. They had a family reunion. Well, they have a family reunion every year, but one year, about three or four years back had a— Was it a family reunion or was it on Easter's birthday?	29:13
Easter Hinton Sanders	Birthday.	29:27
Speaker 4	Birthday.	29:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	I imagine, I think.	29:27
Speaker 4	They had a lot of people there, and our Easter got up and made a speech at the end, "Some of you that I taught turned out to be doctors, some turned out to be lawyers, and some turned out to be liars."	29:28
Easter Hinton Sanders	But you didn't forget that. No.	29:46
Speaker 4	That was her birthday.	29:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	Birthday.	29:49
Speaker 4	There's no place that she can go around Garner, or a lot of times around Raleigh that she does not see people that she taught in school to this very day. Naturally, they are people much [indistinct 00:30:11]—	29:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah, grown now.	30:08
Speaker 4	Yeah. Old and—	30:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	Married.	30:08
Speaker 4	—some a lot younger, but she— They all respect and love her to death.	30:14
Paul Ortiz	When you were teaching, I would say going up to maybe the '30s and '40s, what other kinds of things were happening in your life?	30:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	What?	30:36
Paul Ortiz	Things that you think were pretty significant, pretty important kinds of things.	30:37
Speaker 4	Like marriages and so forth?	30:42
Paul Ortiz	It could be.	30:43
Easter Hinton Sanders	Marriages. Let me see who I could— Let me see. What you mean, bringing?	30:47
Paul Ortiz	In other words, did you get married during this time?	31:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	Did I get married during this time? I married in 1928.	31:12
Paul Ortiz	1928.	31:12
Easter Hinton Sanders	During that time—	31:14
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	31:15
Easter Hinton Sanders	—when I was teaching.	31:16
Paul Ortiz	How did you meet your husband?	31:20
Joe	They lived in the same community.	31:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	Huh? He lived in the same community, and went to the same school that I went to and I—	31:27
Paul Ortiz	So he was—	31:31
Easter Hinton Sanders	Pardon?	31:33
Joe	Mm-mm. That was [indistinct 00:31:34]—	31:33
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. That's the elementary school when I was in grade school. I was in grade school because first, he would come up and talk to me. We all went from Hialeah and we'd walk to school. When it turn out, we all girls and boys would go home and he'd always pick at me and say something to me, and stuff, and kept it up until we got married.	31:33
Paul Ortiz	What was he doing as far as occupation when you were—	32:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	He wasn't doing anything but working on the farm like we did. We all worked on—	32:22
Joe	[indistinct 00:32:26] there was a ton of farmers.	32:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	Farming.	32:26
Joe	There were a ton of farmers and sharecroppers, and in the fall of the year when everything was sold, they had to get planning on half of it. You'd take half if you got anything back because your half had to pay for all the bills, the fertilizer and if you hired any help or anything. All that had come out of your part. If you borrowed money from it, you had to pay all that back out of your half. Sometimes you didn't have nothing left when you got through paying it. He would give you maybe $100 to buy your children some clothes or shoes on. I think that's what you were more or less interested in is those type of things.	32:26
Paul Ortiz	Yeah. Also another question, do you remember, say there in the '20s— Well, how about, do you remember World War I much?	33:06
Joe	Our brother was in World War I.	33:19
Easter Hinton Sanders	I had a brother.	33:20
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Did it seem like World War I made much of— I mean, did it make much of an impact on your family's life?	33:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	Only had a brother. Was that when Briar went?	33:35
Joe	Mm-hmm. Yeah. He went in 1918 or before, somewhere along there. I'm not sure that you had some kind of change.	33:37
Speaker 4	I think really what—	33:50
Easter Hinton Sanders	I think it was—	33:51
Speaker 4	— everybody's getting at is did World War I impact or make any significant changes as far as the Black family was concerned?	33:55
Joe	No.	34:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-mm.	34:01
Speaker 4	The answer is definitely no—	34:02
Joe	No.	34:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	No.	34:06
Speaker 4	— if that's what you're saying.	34:06
Paul Ortiz	No?	34:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	No.	34:06
Speaker 4	Nothing major changed for that. Really didn't no really significant change come about, excuse me, until the '60s, Martin Luther King. Everything maintained and stayed more or less just about the same. No change. It was just you had some years and some periods where you have segregation bred more violence towards Blacks than at other times, and at times it would ease up a little bit, but constant fear is always there. For instance, when my Uncle Joe was a boy, you'd go downtown Raleigh, for instance, and you'd bump into Whites on that sidewalk.	34:10
Paul Ortiz	Speaking of race relations and the farming community, do you remember having much interaction with White people, and what kind of race relations were there?	35:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	One thing, they would always want the Blacks to wait until they were served for everything. Even if bringing water to the field where we were working in, they would stop and give the Whites water with a dipper and a bucket, and then come to us. I'll say the Blacks. But that changed. I don't know.	35:25
Paul Ortiz	Was there any Ku Klux Klan activity or—	36:00
Easter Hinton Sanders	I heard talk of them, but I don't know anything about Ku Klux Klan. We'd run in the house and close the door when we'd hear tell of in some other place.	36:07
Paul Ortiz	So, there would be rumors?	36:20
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	36:22
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Were there any other kinds of organizations in Wake County, Black organizations like, say, lodges or NAACP, perhaps, or a—	36:24
Joe	The Masons.	36:36
Paul Ortiz	Masons?	36:36
Joe	Mm-hmm.	36:37
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	36:38
Paul Ortiz	Was your dad in the Masons?	36:39
Joe	Yep.	36:40
Easter Hinton Sanders	My daddy was a Mason and I was a Star.	36:40
Paul Ortiz	And then, what did you do as a Star?	36:42
Easter Hinton Sanders	I don't think—	36:49
Joe	She can't tell you, I don't think.	36:49
Paul Ortiz	Okay. That's off the record, okay?	36:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	36:57
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	36:57
Joe	I have two brothers who also became Masons.	36:57
Paul Ortiz	That was a pretty important org—	37:04
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right. Yes.	37:07
Joe	That's another way that a Black could get recognition during that time. If he was a Mason and a White person was a Mason, they would kind of look out for you.	37:10
Paul Ortiz	You were teaching at a school. It was Springfield Elementary. Where did you go from there?	37:28
Easter Hinton Sanders	What?	37:35
Paul Ortiz	Did you change schools?	37:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	I went to Greene County.	37:37
Paul Ortiz	You went to Greene County.	37:38
Easter Hinton Sanders	The same grade.	37:38
Paul Ortiz	In the same grade.	37:38
Easter Hinton Sanders	Huh?	37:38
Joe	You went to Greene first, and then came to Springfield. I think that's what he's talking about. After she left Springfield—	37:42
Easter Hinton Sanders	I gave Springfield first?	37:45
Joe	Huh? Didn't you go to Greene County first?	37:47
Easter Hinton Sanders	I went to Greene County first.	37:49
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	37:51
Speaker 4	What he said, Aunt Easter, when you left Springfield, where did you go after that?	37:51
Joe	That's what I was going to say. She went to Garner, Garner Elementary School.	37:57
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Okay. Was that a different experience as far as teaching? Were there more kids?	38:04
Easter Hinton Sanders	More kids, and then too, they consolidated a little school and had one big school. That was Garner Consolidated School. The school where I was wasn't the only one that went to this Garner Consolidated School. They closed a lot of the little schools out and had— That's when they got their bus and all to take the children to this Garner Consolidated School.	38:09
Paul Ortiz	About what time period was that?	38:39
Easter Hinton Sanders	Time period? Let me see. That was about—	38:43
Paul Ortiz	That was in the '40s, or was that after World War II or—	38:47
Joe	It was a long time after World War II. It was a long time after that.	38:47
Paul Ortiz	But it was before Brown versus the Board of Education?	38:56
Joe	Oh, yeah.	38:58
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Long time before that.	38:58
Paul Ortiz	As a teacher, what did you think of the Brown versus the Board of Education ruling? What?	39:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Say what?	39:09
Paul Ortiz	As a teacher, what did you think about Brown versus Board, 1954? Do you remember having reactions at that time about the case, or did—	39:10
Joe	I don't think she recalls it.	39:21
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-mm. No, I don't.	39:26
Joe	I don't think she does. She doesn't recall.	39:26
Paul Ortiz	Now, what was your family like, your family life? You married in 1928. Do you have kids?	39:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	I have two, a girl and a boy.	39:39
Paul Ortiz	Well, was there any difference in the way you raised your children as, say, the way your parents raised you? Did you keep a lot of the same—	39:46
Easter Hinton Sanders	I tried to. Yeah. I would punish them. I remember when I went to church in Garner and my son kept talking and playing with the boy that was in front of him because they were neighbors. And so, I told him to stop two or three times. I said, "I'm going to get you when you get back home." The boy in front of him reached around and gave him a fan, the church fan. I just sat there. They knew each other. They were neighbors and played together. That's why they thought they could play at church.	39:57
Easter Hinton Sanders	When I got home— I walked from the church. I didn't live far from there. My husband was sitting on the porch because he didn't go to church as often as I did. I walked to the hedges and got a piece of a hedge off, and I whipped him good. I say to you, "Mama, I'm not going to church anymore." I said, "You're going to church when I go." My husband is sitting on the porch as I said before. He said, "Easter, what did he do? Did he kill somebody? You killing him like he killed somebody at church today."	40:49
Paul Ortiz	When you were growing up, who was responsible for the discipline? Was it a—	41:33
Easter Hinton Sanders	I was, and my brother was responsible for discipline. You mean at home?	41:47
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	41:53
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. They'd help my mother out with them.	41:56
Paul Ortiz	So it was kind of a shared thing. It wasn't something where just the father or just the mother?	42:04
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. Well, I'll say this. The oldest one was supposed to look after the ones that was under, take care of them. By being the oldest, you take care of the youngest one.	42:09
Joe	Our father was sick. I think that's one of the things. He passed when I was two years old, so I don't really know anything about him other than what they told me, but they do. And so therefore, he didn't have disciplinary action towards them, that was my older brother and my mother. It wasn't because he didn't want to, but he was just disabled.	42:32
Paul Ortiz	Did he have the— what was the welfare situation?	42:55
Joe	As I understand it, he had a heart problem.	42:56
Paul Ortiz	He had a heart problem, a heart situation. After you had been teaching, did you get involved in any other kinds of organizations, or was there a teacher's organization? You mentioned joining [indistinct 00:43:15].	43:06
Joe	In the day, you've got a teachers association. They used to have a state organization co-existing with it once a year, but I remember one year I can remember everything. Remember when y'all went to Charlotte?	43:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.	43:49
Joe	It got up to this—	43:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	They lost this—	43:49
Joe	— state committee, a meeting, that they were not a teachers association and they had a state [indistinct 00:43:50]. I remember that because I was— I always liked that because I had to go somewhere.	43:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	You went and Ms. Knight lost her suitcase. Do you remember that?	43:50
Joe	Oh, yeah.	43:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	One of the teachers' suitcase got misplaced. I won't say that, misplaced. We stopped to get some gas on our way to Winston-Salem. Was that when we went to Salem?	43:56
Joe	Yeah.	44:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	Or Charlotte?	44:07
Joe	[indistinct 00:44:10] myself. I didn't go to Charlotte.	44:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	When we got to where we was going, her suitcase was gone because they put them on—	44:14
Joe	Outside of the car.	44:18
Easter Hinton Sanders	— the outside of the car.	44:18
Joe	Right back there, and one on the right. Put it there on the side. At the time, they had a running board where you—	44:21
Speaker 4	Yeah, they had—	44:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	Running board. Only a running board.	44:28
Speaker 4	Oh, so it fell off, then?	44:30
Joe	Mm-hmm.	44:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah, it fell off and we didn't know it until we got to the place. We were taking out our luggages, suitcases and all. But anyway, didn't they go back to look for it?	44:30
Speaker 4	I didn't go that time.	44:48
Easter Hinton Sanders	You didn't go that time. They went back to where we stopped to get gas, and people passing, they picked it up. Never did get in touch with her.	44:49
Paul Ortiz	Was that the—	45:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Teachers association.	45:02
Paul Ortiz	That was the teachers association.	45:04
Easter Hinton Sanders	Association, where we're going.	45:05
Paul Ortiz	Now, did you go on any other kinds of trips or traveling, or was that the—	45:06
Easter Hinton Sanders	The school seminars.	45:09
Paul Ortiz	Or just yourself? I mean—	45:13
Speaker 4	Since she retired, you mean?	45:14
Paul Ortiz	Well, no. Like you and your husband in the '20s, the '30s.	45:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. We didn't hardly have time because when the school was closed till it was back on, I helped on the farm until time to go back to teach.	45:21
Paul Ortiz	Did your husband— Well, what was he? Now, he was a farmer. And then, did he serve during World War II?	45:33
Easter Hinton Sanders	No.	45:41
Paul Ortiz	No. Do you remember? I know I asked about World War I, but do you remember any impacts, say, that World War II had on your family or the Black community in the '40s? Did you read a lot about it or—	45:44
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. I did, but I don't remember. Mm-hmm.	46:02
Paul Ortiz	You don't really have any opinions about it?	46:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Ask your question again.	46:03
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	46:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Let me see if I can get it.	46:03
Paul Ortiz	When World War II was a war, the president said it was a war to bring democracy to the world and— Did you have—	46:06

Joe	— country like what was bombed in World War II.	0:01
Paul Ortiz	Oh, Germany, United States, Japan, Italy.	0:03
Speaker 4	I don't think the average woman, particularly a Black woman, would be that much interested in the war. The reason I say that is, because in the Black family, it's always been the woman who was really the backbone of the family, held that family, because that's just the way it was. They didn't have time to really worry about war, who was fighting who. They were worried about how am I going to feed these kids today?	0:15
Easter Hinton Sanders	Feed this family.	0:54
Speaker 4	Not next year. Tomorrow. What are we going to eat today? What are we going to eat tomorrow? Will we be able to live here tomorrow? Will we be alive? Because a Black person's life was just didn't count. That simple. It simply didn't count, because most people, you didn't have the franchise to vote back then, because we got paper to vote, it didn't matter. Now, they only need you for the vote really.	0:55
Joe	Even when you were able to vote, a lot of times, you couldn't vote. I was denied to vote in 1953. They took a man away, and then hang them another way, because they asked me, "In order to vote. You have to know how to read the Constitution." I said, "I can read that upside down," which it was true. It was awful. I was in this place, and it was all White. They gave me the Constitution, and I read it, and then they started to pick different phrases out of the Constitution for me to analyze, and I did it. Some of them didn't even know what I was talking about, because I was right, but they didn't know that I was right.	1:39
Joe	One of the White fellows, my nickname is Joe, and everybody knew to call me Joe, so one of the White men in there said, "You can't mess with Joe. He knows what he's talking about, what he's doing, so you may as well let him vote." And one of them says, "I just ain't going to let him vote." That was one of the men on the board that said I can't vote. I said, "Well, I can't vote," I said, "But I'll see that neither one of you is on the board next year." I walked out. I turned to the gentleman and explained to him what happened. Sure enough, the next year neither one of them was on there. One of them got some time. One of them got some time, but I still couldn't vote.	2:31
Paul Ortiz	Was that during the '50s or—	3:08
Joe	No, that was before the '50s.	3:08
Paul Ortiz	'40s?	3:08
Joe	I would say it was in the '30s.	3:08
Paul Ortiz	'30s?	3:08
Joe	Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was in the '30s.	3:08
Paul Ortiz	Mrs. Sanders, when you were teaching, what were the things that you were trying to teach the kids the most?	3:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	Most of what I was trying to teach the kids was to get an education, so they can take care of themselves and wouldn't have to be working for White folks. I put it like that, and be on their own.	3:44
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember—	4:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	Take care of themselves.	4:08
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh. Hmm?	4:14
Joe	And discipline.	4:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Discipline.	4:15
Paul Ortiz	Did the kids in the segregated system now, did the kids have to walk a really long way or—	4:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yes, they had to walk a long ways. When I was going to school, I had to walk a long ways, but I maybe start—	4:26
Paul Ortiz	About five miles?	4:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	4:38
Joe	Not at that time. The Whites were riding the bus, and they would throw eggs and different things at us, because we couldn't take the bus.	4:38
Speaker 4	Run you off the road. Run you right, if you didn't move, they'd run over you.	4:51
Paul Ortiz	The bus drivers?	4:53
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	4:55
Speaker 4	Yeah. All of them was White. A lot of times, when you had to go to your school, you had to go right by a White school to get to your school.	4:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Sure did.	5:02
Joe	We drove that up, a family, I guess, this would be what you wanted to hear, what Crofter said, we had to pass the White school to get to our school, and we had to go through the woods. A lot of White guys would be out there, having rocks and things, and rock us and sometime, we couldn't get through, and had to go around another way. We organized and see, all of us came from different sections to go to the high school, and we got some rocks and things together, so when they started throwing at us, we had a time. When they started throwing at us, and we started throwing back at them, they tried to run.	5:09
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right, right.	5:52
Joe	They couldn't do it, because there's a guy from the other section of us there to throw rocks at them, and I don't know which side, hit one of the White boys and it hurt him pretty bad, so the parents got into it, and found it, so that broke it up.	5:54
Paul Ortiz	What did you think about this, Mrs. Sanders, when this was going on? Do you have any—	6:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	I thought it was a kind of bad situation, on the account of the old way humor, and so I couldn't see that caused them not to want to go to school and learn. Come in contact with the White and they throwing things at them like that, and some of them didn't want to go. Their parents would take them sometime.	6:23
Paul Ortiz	When you were teaching, during those years, did you have White officials on the school board?	6:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. Mm-hmm. They was the ones.	6:59
Paul Ortiz	How did you get along with them? What was your opinion with them?	7:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Got along with them all right. They'd come to school and sit in the classroom to see how you was teaching, and grade you. So many times, when we'd go to teacher's meetings, the White would always go to the front and sit down, and we would have to go to the back as if they were going to get everything that the superintendent would give out, and we wouldn't get anything. They still have to go by, during our work at school, pamphlets and like. Mm-hmm.	7:08
Paul Ortiz	Now, this was in the classroom when—	8:00
Easter Hinton Sanders	Class—	8:01
Joe	At the teacher's meetings.	8:01
Paul Ortiz	This was at the teacher's meetings. Okay.	8:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	8:01
Paul Ortiz	Now, what happened when you went to the conventions, the education conventions, what happened at those conventions? Do you remember the types of things that you talked about? Were there university lecturers that would come and speak?	8:10
Easter Hinton Sanders	They would have lecturers for you to go by when you was teaching.	8:26
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	8:32
Easter Hinton Sanders	Well, they would have lectures, and so many time, they would give you a little pamphlet, book, to go back when we did go to the teacher's meeting, take that back to school and make your lesson plans and different things they would plan for.	8:33
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm. That's something that really helped you in your teaching?	8:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Yeah.	9:01
Paul Ortiz	When did you start to— Now, you retired in 1960.	9:09
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right.	9:10
Paul Ortiz	Did you, up until your retirement, were you involved in other kinds of civil activities?	9:12
Easter Hinton Sanders	No more than church.	9:22
Paul Ortiz	Church.	9:22
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	9:23
Paul Ortiz	Which church did you go to? You went to—	9:25
Easter Hinton Sanders	You mean before I retired? Up until I retired?	9:29
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	9:32
Easter Hinton Sanders	Good Hope Baptist Church.	9:33
Paul Ortiz	Good Hope. Okay, so that was the same church you went to when you were a child, right?	9:34
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right. Mm-hmm.	9:38
Joe	During that time, churches didn't meet but once a month. Only had service once a month.	9:44
Easter Hinton Sanders	Twice. Every other Sunday.	9:46
Joe	Then eventually, they started having it twice a month. But starting off, it didn't happen once a month.	9:53
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-mm.	10:01
Joe	From my understanding, our daddy, would see to it that we to another church. See, Franklin Baptist Church was the church they went to on the first Sunday. Good Hope was the church they went to on second Sunday. And then, they started—	10:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Garner.	10:13
Joe	Then Garner on the third Sunday, and what's the? Good Samaritan—	10:13
Easter Hinton Sanders	Good Samaritan. We'd go to the other church.	10:15
Joe	— was the fourth Sunday service. But then—	10:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	Churches—	10:28
Joe	— during one time of the year, they started having it twice a month. We'd go to Franklin on the first and third Sunday, go to Good Hope on the second and fourth Sunday, and that's the way it — Now, most of those churches have it every Sunday.	10:28
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm. What were kinds of things that you'd do during those times? Did you come into Raleigh much?	10:46
Easter Hinton Sanders	I went to Raleigh a whole lot, but you're talking about when I was working or now?	10:54
Paul Ortiz	Yeah, when you were working.	10:58
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, no. Only time I'd go would be once a month, when I'd get paid for teaching. I'd go spend the money once a month.	11:01
Paul Ortiz	Where would you spend it at?	11:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	At different stores. Sears Roebuck store and Charles and Hudson Belk.	11:20
Joe	You'd buy jewelry at Neiman's.	11:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	Neiman's, yeah. Neiman's Jewelry Store.	11:25
Joe	See, back then, didn't have no shopping malls like you do now.	11:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	No, you can go right out there.	11:39
Joe	Had to go to Raleigh, and in the fall of the year, maybe twice a year, we'd always go to the circus. We'd come to town and go to that circus. I can remember those things, and we'd come to Raleigh then on the wagon to the circus.	11:40
Easter Hinton Sanders	How many miles?	11:57
Joe	You know where I told you where I used to get on Fool Road?	12:07
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	12:08
Joe	That used to be a big field out there where they'd put out the circus tent, Barnum, Bailey and Ringling Brothers. Not then, but just playing. Then in the fall, we'd also go to the fair. They'd have the state fair. Other than that, we didn't hardly get to see Raleigh.	12:09
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	12:28
Joe	There was people on the same farm that we were on that never learned anything but Raleigh. They never did go anywhere but Raleigh. I mean, whenever they did have a chance, an opportunity to come, they didn't ever go out of Wake County.	12:28
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm. In Raleigh, when you went and went shopping, were there any Black businesses?	12:39
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-mm. I don't remember. No.	12:50
Joe	There's no Black business other than the bank.	12:50
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	12:50
Joe	They had a Black bank, and the Mechanic and Farmers Bank.	12:50
Paul Ortiz	How about say, insurance? Did you have insurance at that time?	13:01
Easter Hinton Sanders	Did I have any?	13:22
Paul Ortiz	Black insurance?	13:22
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yes. Mm-hmm.	13:22
Joe	North Carolina Mutual was the Black.	13:22
Paul Ortiz	North Carolina. Did you have much in the way of, say, stores in the rural part of Wake County?	13:23
Easter Hinton Sanders	You mean now?	13:28
Joe	He's talking about—	13:28
Easter Hinton Sanders	Talking about the past. Mm-hmm. No, didn't have no real stores.	13:28
Joe	Our uncle had a store.	13:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	In the house.	13:41
Joe	In his house. He lived on the same farm we did, and it was kind of a— this was the main highway, and there was a cross road, and his store was here. People would come from there, they'd come to his store. He sold just ordinary things, the main staples of food and things of that kind, and food, except you got that from the White man, from your farmer. He had a big smokehouse and he kept all that stuff in there. He'd give you your allowance for the month, and if you ran short, then you in trouble.	13:44
Speaker 4	More often than that, it'd be here or even thought that you were buying someplace else, you had to go.	14:17
Joe	He kept a record, because you didn't keep no record, that's why you could never get out of debt.	14:25
Speaker 4	Right. He kept your records, you didn't have no records.	14:29
Paul Ortiz	You didn't dare question.	14:32
Joe	No, they told you, and then when he said you owe him so much money, that was it. You didn't question that.	14:33
Easter Hinton Sanders	Parents along then didn't know how to count and check him.	14:40
Joe	Most of them were illiterate.	14:45
Paul Ortiz	Is that something that you were trying to teach the kids when you were teaching?	14:48
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. To cooperate and try not to— I mean, to learn how to discipline themselves in and out of school. Mm-hmm.	14:54
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the White superintendents or White school board people influencing you maybe to not teach farmers' kids how to do math? Was there any pressure?	15:03
Joe	I don't think there was pressure on that.	15:26
Easter Hinton Sanders	No. No pressure.	15:26
Joe	On the pressure on that, but I had an experience. I taught adult education. I know you're not really interviewing me, but I want to get that in the—	15:29
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	15:43
Joe	—I taught adult education, and I taught a lot of people, Black and White, how to read and write, because they couldn't read and write. It was a lot of brothers, White, brothers that own a whole lot of property. They were always cheating the Blacks out of their income, because they couldn't figure. When I taught these people how to read and write and how to figure, and keep a record, and it's not fine in the way, no right here. One of them went to this White man at the time, because they hadn't had sold, but he went to his landlord and he went to him, wanted to check up and see how they stand, how much he owed. He had a record, because I taught him how to do it. That was Jerry William. Remember Jerry William?	15:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah, I remember Jerry.	17:01
Joe	Jerry and his wife. Wife's name was Doris. He said, "I want to settle it up." That was before everything was done. He told him, said, "What you mean settle up? Ain't no settling up," said, "We ain't had no settle ups. What you talking about?" Jerry told him, said, "We going to have one today. I'm settling up." They had an argument, and he did settle up with Jerry, but Jerry had to move, and that's the result. Jerry had to leave.	17:03
Speaker 4	You had to go. You're getting too big for your britches.	17:06
Joe	Jerry had to move. Then another man came there, in this same farm, and he had his own team. When I say team, talking about two mules. He came to the same place and stayed a year. When he went to settle up, the man took his mules, and told him he was still in debt, and he had to go. That was the way it was.	17:08
Speaker 4	It's hard for you to understand or really visualize. You have to have lived it.	17:39
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	17:49
Speaker 4	Really to know that it was real. These are not made-up stories, and I mean, they're being very kind as to what happened. See, I'm younger, I'm a little hard. What they're saying is they're just really sugar-coating it, but it was not pretty. It was very ugly, raw, and nasty, and bad. There is no other way to put it. It is just that simple. And it has not really, really changed that much today. Sadly. It has not. I don't know, me, everybody always when I used to talk around my buddies and things, they kind of got fearful of the back door with me, because I appreciated Dr. Martin Luther King, beautiful man. But Malcolm X was a better man, you look all the way down through history.	17:51
Joe	Let's get back to this.	18:54
Speaker 4	Okay, go ahead.	18:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	I got to go. I got to go.	18:54
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	18:54
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. I got to go. I mean, go ahead.	18:54
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now, going back to your career, Mrs. Sanders, when you were teaching, and you taught until 1960, what were the biggest changes you saw in education for Black people up to 1960? Say from 1925 to 1960, what were the biggest differences and the things that changed in education?	19:04
Easter Hinton Sanders	What I can see, the White folks are taking on to the Black folks, I'll say more so because the Black folks are learning just like they are learning, and they want to have something and be somebody. That's one change. You can go in there, well, I better not say that because I was reading the other day where a Black was going in the White church and didn't want them to go. Didn't want them there. The change was that I see that they're making them all equal, but do you think they going to be equal, equalized?	19:35
Paul Ortiz	Do I think?	20:23
Joe	She asking you the questions.	20:24
Paul Ortiz	Kind of turning the tables.	20:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	I turned it around, do you think that—	20:28
Joe	I think she got you. She caught him by surprise.	20:28
Easter Hinton Sanders	Do you think—	20:29
Joe	But they used to have, what they were trying to do in school was have the Blacks wanted equal schools, so then they wanted to separate them, they said it was equal and separate. And then, in a lifetime, when you was talking about 1960, then this came about that the Blacks wanted to change the curriculum somewhat, and add Black history. That was the thing that stirred up everything. The Whites didn't want it in the schools, but the Blacks wanted it in there. That was one of the big problems.	20:38
Paul Ortiz	We still have those debates. I'm a very strong supporter of Black history, and we still have the debates even at Duke University.	21:14
Joe	Where you from?	21:23
Paul Ortiz	I'm from Washington state. I grew up in—	21:24
Joe	Did you have anything with the girl that's there?	21:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah.	21:31
Speaker 4	She's from Portland, Oregon.	21:35
Joe	Oh, yeah. That's one of them—	21:37
Speaker 4	He's from Washington state.	21:39
Joe	Yeah. They ought to join together, Oregon and Washington.	21:40
Paul Ortiz	Hey, I wouldn't say that. It's kind of like North Carolina and South Carolina.	21:43
Speaker 4	Yeah.	21:47
Joe	Yeah, that's what I'm saying.	21:48
Speaker 4	I don't think so, Uncle Joe. Washingtonians are very proud people. They're very dignified—	21:48
Joe	Very proud. Those three states out on there on the western coast.	21:56
Speaker 4	Yeah.	21:58
Joe	Washington, Oregon—	21:58
Speaker 4	Yeah.	22:00
Joe	—and California.	22:02
Speaker 4	Yeah.	22:03
Joe	That's what I'm saying.	22:03
Speaker 4	Yeah, but they're very different.	22:04
Joe	I'm not denying that. I wasn't concerned about that.	22:07
Paul Ortiz	I'm sorry, Mrs. Sanders, do you need to go or are you—	22:09
Easter Hinton Sanders	Well.	22:13
Joe	Go ahead on with your questions.	22:14
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	22:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	You don't have much more, do you?	22:14
Paul Ortiz	I don't want to get too controversial with everybody and get everybody arguing.	22:18
Easter Hinton Sanders	You could take him?	22:21
Joe	You want to take him after you?	22:26
Paul Ortiz	Yeah, I mean—	22:28
Speaker 4	Ah, okay. Go ahead and get through with her, then you can get to me.	22:30
Paul Ortiz	I mean, Mrs. Sanders. We've covered a lot of ground, but how would you sum up living during the Jim Crow period?	22:34
Easter Hinton Sanders	How would I sum up living?	22:48
Joe	Jim Crow.	22:52
Paul Ortiz	During Jim Crow. In other words, okay, let me back up here. What were the things, the reminders, to you as an individual, during the Jim Crow period that this was a segregated system?	22:53
Joe	The way you couldn't go anywhere to eat.	23:11
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. Let me think now. I know what you're saying, but I think it has accomplished something. From that, because we can go in stores now, just like I say for instance, let me say this. Where I live in Garner, they didn't want any Black to come in there, buy anything, like a cone of cream they used to sell in there, ice cream. You would have to go outside to eat it. But now, you can go in there, the same place, am I answering your question?	23:14
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	23:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	Same place now, and buy what you want to, look around and eat. I had a, I don't know, first cousin that come here and he wanted to go in that store, drug store, to get him a cream. They'd serve you, but they didn't want you to stop and sit down, but the White could go in there and sit down and eat. But now, they can do that, go in there, eat, same place. A long time ago, they couldn't do that. I see that change. Am I answering your question?	23:52
Paul Ortiz	Yeah. Along with that change, what were your opinions about Civil Rights movement when it first started?	24:39
Easter Hinton Sanders	When it first started?	24:47
Paul Ortiz	When it first started.	24:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	I don't know what to say.	24:56
Paul Ortiz	Did it make much of an impact in Wake County in the 1950s?	24:57
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah. Because now, they can go in most any of the stores. But I don't know. I'm thinking what— I think it did.	25:03
Paul Ortiz	As teachers, did you remember— was there support for the goals back then among other teachers? Was it something you talked of with friends during the conventions? Would you ever talk politics and how it effected education?	25:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Yes. But I don't know about it. I'm just thinking, wondering. The effect on the teachers, you said?	25:47
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	26:13
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Well, this bit of change, and so that—	26:13
Speaker 4	(phone rings) Babe! Babe!	26:25
Easter Hinton Sanders	— make them kind of come together after I see that.	26:27
Joe	She might be sleeping.	26:31
Paul Ortiz	There was more that you think brought the teachers together?	26:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right. What I think, it's kind of brought them together, all of them, the teachers.	26:39
Paul Ortiz	You have many memories of your parents? Do you still think about your parents and the things?	26:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	Do I have any memory of my parents? Yes, my mother died in— I was 14 years old when my daddy passed. I don't remember too much about him, and I know he used to make us go to church. He'd go, he was the deacon of the church. The same church, he was the deacon. He would take us to church every Sunday, Sunday school preacher. Revival.	27:05
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember when you were baptized?	27:48
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, I was baptized when I was 14 years old. I remember that, and up until now, because we had a big old pond, boy, it was said to be Miller Miles'. This White man owned it, great, big old pond. We were baptized in that.	27:55
Paul Ortiz	Was that during a revival, was there a visiting preacher that would come by?	28:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	No, the preacher would run revival a whole week at this church.	28:31
Paul Ortiz	Your mom passed on in 19— see, when you 14, right?	28:52
Joe	Her daddy died.	28:56
Easter Hinton Sanders	My daddy when I was 14. My mother passed in. When did Mama pass? Since my daddy died. What year did Mama die?	29:03
Joe	1930.	29:18
Easter Hinton Sanders	1930—	29:20
Paul Ortiz	How about some of your other sisters? Do you have much contact—	29:27
Joe	She's the only one left.	29:38
Easter Hinton Sanders	They're dead.	29:38
Paul Ortiz	Ah.	29:38
Joe	Out of the 10, there's only three of us living, two boys and one girl.	29:38
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm. And then, I don't want to take up all of your time. During the years that you were teaching, do you remember friends that you have? Were they mainly other teachers, or do you have other friends that you would do things with?	29:45
Easter Hinton Sanders	Do I remember what?	30:01
Paul Ortiz	Other friends that you have.	30:03
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Miss Turner, Miss Jones, Miss John.	30:07
Paul Ortiz	Were they basically working on the farms?	30:12
Joe	They were teachers.	30:16
Paul Ortiz	Teachers.	30:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm.	30:18
Paul Ortiz	Teachers knew each other—	30:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	Right. Well, not all of them—	30:26
Joe	Are you talking about before her teaching days, then maybe he's talking about Megan—	30:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh. They were my schoolmates. I thought he was talking about teachers who cooperate.	30:38
Paul Ortiz	Yeah. When you were an adult.	30:47
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Do you know just about all of them dead? Do you remember one? My classmates, school friends.	30:50
Joe	[indistinct 00:31:02].	30:58
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah.	31:03
Joe	Maggie.	31:05
Easter Hinton Sanders	Maggie's not dead, but she's in a home.	31:05
Joe	She's in a rest home, and one of your classmates are—	31:11
Easter Hinton Sanders	Clark?	31:13
Joe	No, not brother. Justice.	31:14
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh.	31:17
Joe	Cornelia Justice.	31:17
Easter Hinton Sanders	Cornelia Justice.	31:17
Joe	She's still living.	31:21
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. Yeah. Most of them are dead.	31:22
Joe	Mm-hmm. I'm trying to think. Raymond?	31:37
Easter Hinton Sanders	Raymond? No, he's dead.	31:37
Joe	He's dead.	31:37
Easter Hinton Sanders	Arthur?	31:37
Joe	That's about it.	31:37
Paul Ortiz	If you had to sum up, I guess, sum up your life during those years, how would you do it? What would you say? If you had to write your story, if you were dictating an autobiography, what were your aspirations, I guess?	31:49
Easter Hinton Sanders	I don't know. If I had to make a summary of my life, that's what you're saying?	32:23
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm.	32:27
Easter Hinton Sanders	I'd have to go back. I really don't know how to sum it up, start with it. Start when I first went to school, when I was six years old. I'd have to think over that. Mean step by step?	32:30
Joe	No.	32:52
Paul Ortiz	No.	32:52
Joe	What has been enjoyable, and how you stack up everything going on—	32:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, no.	33:08
Joe	Good times, bad times, hard times.	33:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	I've had them all.	33:08
Joe	Mm-hmm. That's life.	33:08
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. I've had them all. Good times when I was young, coming up. And then, with my school friends and mates, that was an enjoyable time, up until now. Good times, I think I had a pretty good life.	33:21
Speaker 4	You had a good life. A lot better than a lot.	33:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	I wouldn't be living here today if I hadn't.	33:55
Paul Ortiz	Is there anything you want to add? Anything that we should know or anything, I'm sure I've missed most everything, probably.	33:55
Easter Hinton Sanders	Mm-hmm. No, I don't think so. You have just about everything, I think. I would like for you to know my age, why I can't think well.	34:14
Joe	You told him when you were born.	34:24
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, did I?	34:30
Paul Ortiz	You were born in 1901.	34:30
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, 1901. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. I think what's you got first.	34:33
Speaker 4	You told him that before you came over.	34:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, you did.	34:35
Joe	I think he can do a little arithmetic.	34:35
Easter Hinton Sanders	Yeah.	34:35
Paul Ortiz	But you told me too.	34:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	Say what?	34:36
Paul Ortiz	You told me also.	34:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh, I did?	34:36
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	34:36
Easter Hinton Sanders	Uh-huh. Another thing that made me think about that dentist that you told me to go do that for the toe, the feet. He gave me a blank to fill, and when he got it back, he said, "Oh, you've made a mistake in here." I said, "Why?" He said, "You said on the blank you were born in 19 and one." He said, "That would make you be," at the time I went to him. He didn't get that age year round 19 and one. He said, "Well, you would be 80-some odd years old." I said, "I wasn't a year old when I was born." See, he went round 19 — you know what he did? Uh-huh. He was counting up from that, that I was one year old when I was born. He said, "Oh!" He did like that.	34:49
Speaker 4	It's the oriental way.	35:48
Easter Hinton Sanders	Huh?	35:48
Speaker 4	It's the oriental way. They do that.	35:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	They do?	35:52
Speaker 4	When you're born, the oriental way, you're automatically one year old?	35:52
Easter Hinton Sanders	One-year-old?	35:57
Speaker 4	Yeah.	35:57
Easter Hinton Sanders	When you born.	35:58
Speaker 4	Oriental way. Your first birthday, you are two years old.	35:59
Easter Hinton Sanders	From one to two is one year old.	36:02
Speaker 4	Yeah, that's the oriental way. They consider the nine-month incubation period one year.	36:07
Easter Hinton Sanders	Oh. Hmm.	36:13
Speaker 4	Right, Paul?	36:16
Paul Ortiz	I guess that makes sense.	36:16
Easter Hinton Sanders	I don't know.	36:17
Speaker 4	That's the way they do it. Yeah. Oriental way, when your first birthday, you're two years old, instead of being one.	36:19
Easter Hinton Sanders	Hmm.	36:27
Paul Ortiz	Do you want to change mics or take a break, or—	36:27
Joe	Are you talking about me?	36:30
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	36:30
Joe	I'm okay.	36:30
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	36:34
Speaker 4	Uncle Joe is going to really fill you in.	36:34
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Well—	36:38

Item Info

Title:

Easter Sanders interview recording, 1994 January 28

Date:

January 28, 1994

Creator:

Sanders, Easter Hinton

Contributor:

Ortiz, Paul

Description:

Name: Easter Hinton Sanders; Date of birth: 1901-09-01; Place of birth: Clayton, NC; Occupation(s): educator; Residence: Raleigh, NC
Informant ID: 337; Interviewed by: Paul Ortiz.

Occupation:

Educator

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 339
aspace_f1f2278d-9992-4455-aea9-8a547f16d517
behindtheveil
btvnc03032
ark:/87924/r4bp02h6h
6161df9f-69fd-4d6e-9c6d-9d1f797fa261

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Easter Sanders interview recording, 1994 January 28

Transcript

Item Info

1. Easter Sanders administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Easter Sanders interview recording, 1994 January 28

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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