Mathew Shute, Sr. (primary interviewee) and Amanda Shute interview recording, 1993 June 08

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Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	—in the western section near Johnson C. Smith. And I had a grandmother who lived on the other side of town, right near where my wife lived. And so we learned about each other in visiting my grandmother, which was just about a block from her house. And so while visiting over there, we learned to play with her and her sisters. She had three sisters—isn't that right [indistinct 00:00:43]?	0:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	That's right.	0:39
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Three sisters and a brother. Also, her daddy was a Presbyterian minister, who was preaching just about a block away at the church at the time. Also, my father was a Presbyterian minister, and he worked at Johnson C. Smith from 1907 to '47. So—We went to high school together. And after high school she went to Durham to take nurse training. Maybe she can tell you about her nurse training better than I can.	0:43
Lillian Jenkins Shute	And you went to A&T State.	1:47
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, I'll tell it. You tell about your nursing.	1:47
Lillian Jenkins Shute	A&T State University.	1:47
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No, you tell about your nursing training.	1:47
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did you study?	1:54
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Lincoln Hospital School of Nursing in Durham. North Carolina—	1:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember what it was that made you decide to be a nurse, Mrs. Shute?	2:04
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Oh, I just, as long as I could remember, it seemed like that's what I wanted to do. Because we're retired now, but I was in public health for a while, and then after that, I worked at a hospital here, Good Samaritan Hospital. And we've been married for 50 years. We have three children and 12 grandchildren.	2:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you notice a big difference between Durham and Charlotte when you moved to Durham?	2:40
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Not too much. I guess I didn't go out that much. I thought Durham was a nice place to stay.	2:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did you live when you were doing your nursing training?	2:56
Lillian Jenkins Shute	In [indistinct 00:03:01].	2:58
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you have friends there? Other students?	3:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I've had a few. I knew some people that lived close to the hospital, we would visit sometime.	3:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you have any family in Durham at that time?	3:18
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No.	3:21
Rhonda Mawhood	And how long did your training last?	3:23
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Three years.	3:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you stay in Durham over the summers as well?	3:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	At that time, it was year round. We didn't get the summers off. That was just for a short vacation.	3:31
Rhonda Mawhood	And what did your parents do? Your father was a Presbyterian minister, and your mother?	3:47
Lillian Jenkins Shute	My mother died when I was quite young. I had a stepmother. She came into a home with five children. She really stayed at home, and she had a job, but she [indistinct 00:04:11].	3:54
Rhonda Mawhood	And you—	4:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I went off to North Carolina A&T University. And while there I played football and I was a member of the track team. After finishing school, I got a job with a textile outfit, and I stayed there 35 years.	4:17
Rhonda Mawhood	And—	4:52
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	35 years, in the quality control division. And after that, why, I retired and started taking care of my wife. But let me go back a little further now. I came from a large family. There were, well, eight of us. This is the original Shute family.	4:52
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. Oh, wonderful picture.	5:25
Lillian Jenkins Shute	See that little boy on the left?	5:25
Rhonda Mawhood	The one here? Handsome family.	5:41
Lillian Jenkins Shute	There were four boys, and he's the only one left now. Only boy.	5:45
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I might also add that all of my brothers, all of our sisters, and my dad finished Johnson C. Smith, and my two sisters, they're still living. The older sisters, they're still living. They taught in the city system for many years. And the baby sister—	5:50
Rhonda Mawhood	[indistinct 00:06:13] one?	6:14
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. She married a Baptist minister. And I might also add that all my sisters married preachers.	6:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Did any of the boys become preachers?	6:27
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	How's that?	6:28
Rhonda Mawhood	Did any of your brothers become preachers, Mr. Shute?	6:30
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	One brother, this one, taught at Livingstone College and Bennett College. He had a PhD degree. The sisters all had a master's degree.	6:34
Rhonda Mawhood	My.	6:58
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:07:00].	6:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, ma'am. So the two of you, it seems to me, might have spent quite a lot of your time in church when you were growing up. Can you tell me a little bit about church?	7:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	That's true.	7:12
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. We went to church each Sunday, Sunday afternoon, and occasionally at night. Sunday night. We had what it was called, Christian Endeavor. I don't know what you had at your church or not, but we had it at my church. She was a member of the Brandon Presbyterian Church, and I was a member of the Biddleville Presbyterian Church. And I might add that I have—I am a lifelong deacon—correction, elder of the church.	7:12
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I had one brother. He was a minister also, and I think my father was proud that he was [indistinct 00:08:11]. But he started his own church, the Statesville African Presbyterian Church. Think he served over 20 years.	8:08
Rhonda Mawhood	And where was your brother's church?	8:28
Lillian Jenkins Shute	In Statesville Avenue.	8:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Statesville—Charlotte. Were there organizations for young people in your churches when you were growing up?	8:31
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, but like he said, they called it Christian Endeavor back then, I think.	8:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	They've always had the young people's program. Sunday school and church and afternoon service for the young people.	8:47
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I think his church had the Boy Scouts for [indistinct 00:08:59].	8:54
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Had Boy Scout troop.	8:54
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you do fun things in the church, like picnics or things like that?	9:01
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah, we had picnics. Yeah.	9:05
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you ever see each other at those picnics? Did different churches ever have them together?	9:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Not too much during that period. I guess we got together more after what, high school?	9:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	After college. She had a lot of fellows from Johnson C. Smith to come and see her, see—so, and of course I was in Greensboro most of the time, and when I came home we decided that probably the grass was greener at home. So we courted for seven years, and got married in '41. And we have three children, two boys and a girl, and 12 grandchildren.	9:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you correspond when you were at college, away from each other?	10:03
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No.	10:06
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He wrote once in a while.	10:08
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Not too much.	10:08
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you write back, Mrs. Shute?	10:12
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes. He'd like to write mostly. And he was at school. You wanting to talk about the sit-ins, anything?	10:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Before that, actually. We know more about the civil rights movement. We're trying to sort of figure out where the civil rights movement came from, what kinds of things were going on before that.	10:35
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I might add, my father in 1892 played in the first Black intercollegiate football game in America. And the game was played between Bill University and Livingstone College. And they just recently celebrate the 100th anniversary last fall. Also, he started, I believe it was 1900, helped started the first Black school system in Gastonia, North Carolina.	10:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Was your mother involved in your father's work?	11:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, she worked with him. Course with children coming on, they start—I think the first child was born 1900 and the last one 1924. So yeah. But even between children, she taught in the county school system a while.	11:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Really? Elementary school or secondary school?	12:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Elementary school. She's also a graduate of Barber Scotia College.	12:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Barber-Scotia.	12:28
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. In Concord.	12:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember your grandparents at all, Mr. Shute? I think Mrs. Shute might.	12:34
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I don't remember mine.	12:35
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I remember my father's mother and also my mother's mother. I remember both.	12:35
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things do you remember about your grandmother, Mr. Shute?	12:36
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh, they were very lively person. And I recall they would come visit us on occasion some Sundays, and they would, sometime would sit down and not speak to other. One of those things. But at one time, one or both of them lived with us in the family house. We had a house on the—right near the campus on West Fayette Street, and for a while my daddy's mother lived with us, and she passed away in '24, 1924. And then my mother's mother came and stayed with us. And she lived to ripe old age of 94, I believe. And my mother died when she was what? Was 95?	12:44
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I thought it was 92.	13:59
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	92, 93.	13:59
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I'm not sure.	13:59
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	And as of now I have two sisters who are both over 90 years old. So they somewhat long livers.	14:06
Rhonda Mawhood	That's wonderful.	14:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah.	14:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your grandmothers ever tell you stories about their childhood, the family history, that kind of thing?	14:17
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yes. Some stories. I don't recall too much. They had to work in the field, and that was pretty rough going at time, but they didn't talk too much about it. I know my mother's mother, she had I don't know how many children, four or five children. And at one time she was more or less—had to carry the whole load, so to speak. But my father's mother, she had for a long time somebody staying with her, her niece staying with her. And of course when her niece got married that's when she moved in with us, and she stayed with us until she passed away.	14:26
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you ever remember getting into trouble when you were children? Things that your parents would discipline you for?	15:46
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah. Yeah, we—	15:58
Lillian Jenkins Shute	My younger sister said that I would fight her, and I didn't want to talk about it after we grew up.	16:01
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	We had chickens, cows, and a large garden. So for the most part we raised most of our food, and very seldom had to go to the store for anything. And then we had to, as I grew older, [indistinct 00:16:43] because my older brothers did it before I did. They used to do all the family washing on the washing board, big tub, washboard.	16:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	We did, too.	16:51
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	And they grew up and left home. Then that fell on me. I had to get up early in the morning, make fires, four, five fires, and help wash the clothes. When my mother—my grandmother moved with us, she left a house over in the Greenville section near where my wife lived, and my daddy rented it out for $2 a week. And my job, when I was going to high school, was to go over there each Monday morning, collect that $2. It was a distance of about almost two miles, from my house over there. Good two miles. I have to go over before breakfast, collect that $2, come back home. And I got a quarter for doing that. And that quarter would last me all week. I could spend it today, but it would have to last all week, see. So that was one of the chores I had.	16:54
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would you spend your quarter on?	18:07
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, we would, at school—what they have down in basement, Leah? Wasn't a snack bar. But you could buy a meal.	18:10
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Buy a hot dog or something.	18:13
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Hot dog, something. You could get a hot dog about that long for a nickel, and drink for a nickel. Sometimes boys would get a loaf of bread for a nickel, cut a big hole in it, and pour a can of beans in there. At school do a lot of things growing up. But it was great growing up. But in the section where my wife lived, the boys were kind of tickled about fellows going walk—coming over there seeing their girls. And sometime they'd fire a rock over there. But I got along with most of them. I never had much trouble.	18:20
Rhonda Mawhood	So you could visit that side of town okay?	19:12
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. Excuse me.	19:14
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm living now in Durham, because I'm going to Duke University. But—	19:19
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You like Durham.	19:22
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm. I like it. People are very friendly there.	19:23
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I've never been to Canada. I was hoping I'd get to see it, when I could travel. I've never been there.	19:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Montreal's a nice city. Well, it's my home, so of course I think it's a nice city.	19:35
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	What's your major?	19:41
Rhonda Mawhood	History. I'm doing a—I just started a PhD in history.	19:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	That's good.	19:44
Rhonda Mawhood	This past year. I'm learning a lot.	19:58
Lillian Jenkins Shute	One of our grandchildren graduated from Duke.	19:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Really?	19:58
Lillian Jenkins Shute	She's living in Pennsylvania there.	19:59
Rhonda Mawhood	I'd like to bring you back a little bit. You were telling me about being in high school and what you spent your money on, that you were collecting for your father. Did you have dances or things like that at high school?	20:03
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	At what?	20:18
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you have dances or things like that when you were in high school?	20:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah. Yeah. They had dances and usually—	20:21
Lillian Jenkins Shute	House parties too, a lot. Seem like.	20:26
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Mostly house parties. But once in a while they would have dances at school, usually at the end of the year, something like that, they'd have dances. But I guess I did most of my dancing when I was in college. Fraternal dances and so forth.	20:34
Rhonda Mawhood	So you were a member of a fraternity?	20:54
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yes. I am a '58 year member of the Omega Psi Phi chapter.	21:03
Rhonda Mawhood	I see. And did you join a sorority, Mrs. Shute?	21:07
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, I didn't.	21:11
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, this is a—member of the—this man was ex-president of A&T, and he was the oldest member in the national fraternity. He just died a few weeks ago at 101 years old.	21:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh my. I would have liked to be able to talk to him. I'm sure he saw a lot in 101 years.	21:34
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He was pretty well [indistinct 00:21:36] at times—	21:34
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. He really was, until he got sick.	21:36
Rhonda Mawhood	And what position did you play in football?	21:57
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	What position? I played right guard. I was a little fellow, only weighed 160 pound, 165 pounds. But I was right in the middle of that. And on the track team I ran the hundred yard dash, time nine, nine and a half, which was pretty fast time. I was inducted in the sport hall of fame in '82.	22:00
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever see Mr. Shute play football, Mrs. Shute?	22:41
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No. Didn't get up there. I feel like our son's more interested in basketball. [indistinct 00:22:59] football, they really liked basketball.	23:01
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Can you see?	23:06
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, there you are. Yes sir. So you were a good athlete, and you said that your father played football as well.	23:06
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, played football at the very beginning of football.	23:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Was he happy that you followed in his footsteps to play football?	23:40
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah. He passed on before I was inducted, but I don't think he ever saw me play, because we did come down here to play Smith from Greensboro, on two occasions I believe. But the others saw me, anyway.	23:50
Rhonda Mawhood	Did he ever suggest that he would like you to become a preacher like he was? Well, or your brothers, maybe?	24:06
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	What'd you say?	24:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Did your father ever suggest that he might like you or one of your brothers to become a preacher also? Like he was?	24:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	He didn't encourage to [indistinct 00:24:25] no, he just let us go our own way. I was going into another field. I wanted to go to mortuary school, but I didn't get much support, so I wanted something that's—and I enjoyed my work. It was type of work that kept you on your toes all the time. Plus I had—worked with people. The top man was a man from—he finished Albany, I think he was about 4th or 5th in his class, and his wife was number one in the class. They were very nice people. We got along fine. So I, matter of fact, I went there to stay six months. I had a job in South Carolina in a school, Presbyterian school, but we had one child and we were looking for another one. And that time they were not paying too much in the schools, so I could make more by staying here. So I did. So I stayed home for 35 years.	24:25
Rhonda Mawhood	So you married in 1941. Can you tell me a little bit about what your wedding was like?	26:07
Lillian Jenkins Shute	It was a very small wedding, married at home. I had to have that wedding gown.	26:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Where did you—did someone make your wedding gown for you?	26:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, we bought it.	26:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Bought it, mm-hmm.	26:30
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	This was one of our distinguished brothers that you knew, I'm sure.	26:32
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh my goodness. Yes. Yeah, of course. Did it take you a long time to pick out your wedding dress, Mrs. Shute?	26:35
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, it wasn't much of mine. It didn't cost much. But I always wanted a wedding gown, even though I didn't have a church wedding. My father had passed, and my stepmother was doing the best she could.	26:45
Rhonda Mawhood	And so was it Mr. Shute's father who married you?	27:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	My pastor.	27:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Your pastor. I see.	27:14
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	[indistinct 00:27:20].	27:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, thank you.It looks like maybe you were married at Christmas time.	27:31
Lillian Jenkins Shute	December 22nd.	27:33
Rhonda Mawhood	December 22nd.	27:35
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I got cheated, because you got your gift all in one, Christmas and anniversary. And on top of that, my birthday is January, too. I think one year I got—he said, "This is for all three of them, in one." Was that the year I got the TV, the small TV?	27:38
Rhonda Mawhood	So you got married right after the beginning of the Second World War, or right after the United States joined?	28:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, right after Pearl Harbor. That was the 7th.	28:08
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Beginning of the war almost.	28:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember what life was like for people during the Second World War here in Charlotte?	28:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, things were very tight. For instance, people who smoked cigarettes, in going awake in the morning, you could see a line in front of the drugstore waiting, cigarette line. The ration board gave us so many coupons that were—	28:26
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah.	29:02
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	So things—	29:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Things were rationed like sugar and—	29:02
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	—other things were rationed.	29:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You couldn't get but so many pairs of shoes because they were sending them to the army. The servicemen. Had to have a stamp to get the shoe then.	29:04
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, you couldn't get so much gas.	29:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	And nylons were scarce. They had lines for those. Some of that must have been things they had to use in service, and evidently.	29:17
Rhonda Mawhood	Was it hard for you to keep house during the war, Mrs. Shute, with rationing with that?	29:28
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No. We got stamps for the children, and sometimes other people would want some of the stamps, because they didn't have children, and they wanted more things. But we managed very well.	29:33
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	A lot of things we do without, learned to do without.	29:48
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of things would you learn to do without?	29:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, you couldn't get sugar [indistinct 00:29:55].	29:50
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You had to have—it was rationed. And I don't know about the meats. Do you?	29:50
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Some of the clothes you couldn't buy in the store.	30:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I remember the nylons were scarce.	30:04
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I was fortunate in working at that time for the company I was working for.	30:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Which company was that, Mr. Shute?	30:24
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	It was AJ Glock and Company. But it went—it later changed to Thompson [indistinct 00:30:30] Fibers. They had a lot of textile products. But I said I was lucky, in that, a lot of things that they could get sometime, by hook or crook. You know what I mean? If I might use that term. And so I could get some of—even, I know the man had a connection with Scott Drug Company, wholesale house, and some people couldn't get cigarettes, and yet I would go down there and get a whole case from the president. And then there was a man from Boston, I'm trying to think of his name. He was a millionaire. And I had to send some cigarettes up there to him one time. So, well this case of who you know. One of those things.	30:25
Rhonda Mawhood	Did people make money off of that during the war here in Charlotte? Did you ever hear about that? I know they did other places, but did you hear about them making money from that in Charlotte?	31:39
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Made all kinds of money from people. For instance, the beginning of the war, Charlotte was dry, and a bootlegger used to come to the place where I worked, and unload a case of Scotch and a case of [indistinct 00:32:08] by every corner, I mean to the men upstairs, and the man also bring cigarettes. Sometimes he'd bring a whole case of cigarettes. I think cigarettes were so—were selling at that time 50 cent a pack, which was a big price back then. Of course I understand they sell now nearly $2. Course, thankfully I don't smoke. But you could go to the store. A lot of times they wouldn't have meats. And I went in the store once looking for—well, looking for something. Oh yeah, the man had some frog legs. He said he'd sell them for a dollar and a quarter. I said, "Well, give me a package of [indistinct 00:32:52]." Oh boy. It was a lesson in sacrifice. You had to do—just had to do it. That's all.	31:48
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You couldn't buy many shoes. We had children, so sometimes people would ask us for the stamps from the children. Because seemed like some people ain't have [indistinct 00:33:22] shoes, and maybe we can—	33:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you ever give anyone any of those stamps, Mrs. Shute?	33:24
Lillian Jenkins Shute	We tried to use them in the family.	33:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you share stamps within your family, with your brothers and sisters?	33:32
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, in the family.	33:36
Rhonda Mawhood	I'd like to ask you about segregation itself. One thing we've been asking people is if they remember seeing signs of segregation.	33:43
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah. We'd go to the train station. They had tickets office, and they had—Southern Station, they had a fence, White over there and Black over there. But you could still ride the same train. All the time, it was kids who got there first. And some places we couldn't go at all to eat. They wouldn't serve you. You come to the back door, yes. I recall going to one place on my lunch hour, and the man just told me bluntly, he said, "I can't serve you in here." Said, "You can go down the back and be served, you want." But I kept going.	33:52
Rhonda Mawhood	So you didn't eat there?	35:00
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I didn't.	35:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	We had water fountains, and they had one White and one Colored. Well, I worked at the health department, I decided I wanted to try the other fountain out to see if it tasted different. I was young, and maybe I was wrong, but I just wondered if there was difference in the water, because they had it marked like that.	35:03
Rhonda Mawhood	And so did you try the White fountain?	35:26
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, nobody bothered. They didn't say anything.	35:28
Rhonda Mawhood	And was it any different?	35:33
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, but we just couldn't understand why the sign was up there.	35:34
Rhonda Mawhood	When you were children, did your parents explain these signs to you? Do you remember people explaining to you why those signs were there?	35:41
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, you kind of grew up knowing where your place was, so to speak, you see. And that was one of those things. The places we knew we couldn't go, we didn't go. I recall going to a doctor's office once, and I went on in the office and sat down, in the waiting room, sat down. And they saw me. There was [indistinct 00:36:24] and so she took me outside and took me around to the doctor's—one of his main offices. But nobody else was in there, or just two of us. But there were doctors who would wait on you, that is White doctors. But for the most part you'd have to sit out in the hall until they would call you.	35:45
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	And I started with the doctor in '43, I believe. Year '43 or '44. But I didn't have any trouble with him. And he waited on me until, oh, maybe 10 years ago when he retired and his son took it over. But now they don't—I mean just first come, first served. But the company, when I went to work for this company, I was the only Black there. And they had a company party, and the manager came out and told me, he said, "Shoot, we going to have a party. We going to town to party." He said, "I know they won't take you in, but here is some money. Take your wife out somewhere and give her a good time." And I did. He gave me some money.	36:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And did you go out?	37:50
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah, we went out. So, but later on, they as a company grew, they took on more people, that is more Blacks, and they continued to have those parties. But president told me, he said, "We going to have a party out to my house, and want you and your wife to come out there." And I told Leah, who said, "I don't go." But I went anyway.	37:53
Rhonda Mawhood	You went by yourself. Mrs. Shute didn't want to go.	38:29
Lillian Jenkins Shute	But I went the next year.	38:37
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I went by myself. Course I went out there and after two, three drinks I was right at home. But the next year and after that, Leah would go with me. I mean that's one reason why I stayed there. But as I say, they treated me just like one of them.	38:41
Lillian Jenkins Shute	But they did set up a party for the Blacks, a very nice party. But it was separate. It was all Black. But they seemed to enjoy, the ones that came. [indistinct 00:39:04].	38:52
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	What happened, the man asked me if I thought the people out there in the warehouse would want a party. I said, "Yeah, they would like it." He said, "Well, I'll tell you what you do. You set it up and go wherever you want to go. Give them whatever they want." So we went to a Holiday Inn, had a big dinner, had plenty to drink, had a nice band. So they had a good time.	39:04
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Dancing.	39:33
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	That thing went on. As long as I was there, they did that. So lot of them, lot of people had trouble. But I didn't have too much trouble. Like I said, I learned early to know what to do. But as I grew older, that thing kind of got on me, and I felt, and I still feel now, that I'm just as good a citizen as the next man. And especially placing where I pay taxes, as well as anybody else. I'm entitled to, and I tell them so.	39:34
Rhonda Mawhood	When did you start—do you remember when you started telling people that you were paying taxes like anyone else, and that sort of thing, when it started to bother you?	40:24
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, after the war, and in the '50s, and some other things were happening all over. This thing, the sit-in, you know where it started in Greensboro. So we had one of those fellow, one of the original sit-inners, is a member of my church, yeah, and I saw him this past Sunday. So what I find, for the most part, if you carry yourself in such a way, people respect you, they respect what you say, even if they don't like it lot of times. Haven't been too much problem.	40:35
Rhonda Mawhood	What kinds of ways did your parents, each of you, teach you to deal with other people, to deal with adults, for example, to treat adults, when you were children?	41:24
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	They taught us to respect everybody. Even we went to school, if we didn't do the right thing and they got a bad report, then they'd deal with them when they got home. If the teacher tell it, you told the teachers to deal with it, and then let us know. So we didn't have much of a discipline problem. My daddy was a very strict man. Even, he was strict even in his classroom. He told his students, "Class start at 9:00. If I'm not here 9:00, you leave. But if you not here at 9:00, don't come in." It's one of those things. He was a great man. God-fearing man. And he was a highly-respected teacher, minister.	41:34
Rhonda Mawhood	And Mrs. Shute, how did your parents or your father and your stepmother teach you to speak to adults?	42:43
Lillian Jenkins Shute	To always respect them. And in our neighborhood, if you got a whipping in school, you might get another when you get home.	42:52
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Same thing.	43:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Like it happened in your school, too. [indistinct 00:43:13] trying to remember about where Charlotte—guess you heard where Charlotte had a school, high school. When they first opened the school, they played all Black teams, and they didn't have a, what you call it, activity bus. The faculty had to take them in their cars, but they made the games. But that's the way it was. The coach would drive his car and some of the faculty members would take them. So they played games mostly all-Black schools. And they integrated it.	43:09
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I tell you, excuse me, one thing that happened in Charlotte many years ago, they had for the most part Colored cabs, Colored taxicabs. If you go down to the Southern Station, all the cabs down there were Black. And one time they had a Black bus that followed the same route as the streetcar, that is running from this section through downtown, the Brooklyn section, and then coming back. The street car cost seven cents to ride. The bus was five cent. But after a long, so long a time, then they cut it out, they made them stop. I don't know what happened. The insurance rate went up to a point where they felt the Black couldn't handle it, so they curtailed it. So it's one of those things.	43:53
Rhonda Mawhood	And the street car company was owned by White people.	45:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh yeah. Yeah. What's the name of it? Street car company.	45:17
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Didn't ride the street car much. We walked to school.	45:29
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah.	45:30
Lillian Jenkins Shute	What was it? Over a mile.	45:33
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you walk along with your friends to school?	45:35
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes, we walked to downtown. Because the downtown was really downtown then. Had lot of stores. We didn't ride the streetcar much.	45:38
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I think walking helped all of us. Probably one reason why we last a long time. Don't want that back and forth to school every day.	45:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you play with the other children when you walked back and forth to school, when you were small, I mean?	46:00
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah.	46:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Seem like everybody walked then, didn't you?	46:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Everybody walked. Didn't think anything about it. It was—walking was the order of the day. Because I was a grown man almost before my father bought a automobile.	46:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember the first car that your father bought?	46:28
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah. Yeah, first car he bought. I was old enough to drive, then. Yeah.	46:30
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember what kind of car it was?	46:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	How's that?	46:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember what kind of car it was?	46:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	He bought a Chevrolet, and he didn't keep it too long.	46:43

Rhonda Mawhood	—dollars, the Pontiac when it was brand new?	0:01
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Brand new.	0:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Long time ago, wasn't it?	0:03
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	But I used to drive that thing and pass everything on the road.	0:06
Rhonda Mawhood	So your father let you drive it?	0:11
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, he didn't drive, he didn't drive. I had to, I had to drive it. My older brother drove it until he left. He had a job in Texas, worked in school in Texas for a while and came back and went to Michigan to work on his degree. Then I had to do driving.	0:14
Rhonda Mawhood	You said, Mr. Shute, that all of your brothers and sisters finished university, finished college. How did the family work that out? Did you help each other through?	0:43
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, it didn't cost too much to go to school. Now, my two sisters went to Barber Scotia. It was more or less a junior college when I left at one time.	0:59
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah [indistinct 00:01:19].	1:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	They finished Barber Scotia College in their early 20s or late 19s, whatever, and they started teaching. They taught school for a number of years. Then the state made them bring a certificate up and they had to get a degree, so they went back to school, went to Smith. So far my brother's son, they were able to go to school because they worked in the summer, my older brothers worked in the summer.	1:19
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Plus the fact, I think they got some, maybe if you want to call it a discount because my daddy worked there. See? Of course when I went off school, they were out. They were gone. They were out working at first, so the only two left was my baby sister myself. So anyway, and I used to work in New Jersey in the summer, in the kitchen. I did that for several summers. Little place called Ocean City, about 10 miles from Atlantic City.	1:56
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you hear about the job in New Jersey?	2:36
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, how did I feel about it?	2:40
Lillian Jenkins Shute	How did you hear about it?	2:41
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you hear about it? But also afterwards, how did you feel about it?	2:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, my older brother had been working there.	2:46
Rhonda Mawhood	I see.	2:48
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	He worked there for years in the restaurant, restaurant right on the boardwalk.	2:51
Rhonda Mawhood	What was the work like?	2:59
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I worked in the kitchen. I had to wash dishes and then finally worked up to the pantry man. I had to have coffee and pancakes and stuff like that. I did that for several summers.	3:01
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you see any differences between New Jersey and North Carolina? Well, what kinds of differences did you see between New Jersey and North Carolina when you were going back and forth?	3:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	It was about the same. This was in the early '30s. We didn't have too much trouble. We didn't have too much trouble then, because people would come to the seashore to relax and spend the summer on the boardwalk and then at night you would go—there were not too many places to go in Ocean City. Most of the time, people would go to Atlantic City. Well, they would have a ball, so to speak.	3:33
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	We would go to Atlantic City and have a big place that there where some of the big acts would come, Duke Ellington and Cab Calloway. But most time you spend your time working and after work, you go home, and it was in this Black section, and that was all too. You wouldn't look for trouble, most of the time you didn't have any trouble.	4:15
Rhonda Mawhood	How did you get to New Jersey when you went there to work?	4:52
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I go on train.	4:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember changing from the Jim Crow car to other parts of the train once you got north?	4:57
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Say that again?	5:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember changing cars on the train as you moved north or did you stay in—	5:06
Lillian Jenkins Shute	She means the Jim Crow.	5:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Or did you stay in the same car the whole time?	5:13
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:05:21]	5:14
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No, I think you were just that same car, same car. Because I remember, if I remember correctly, I went to Washington, went to DC and I had to change, and in Washington caught another train to Philadelphia, and from the ride to Philadelphia, I was sitting by a White man. He was reading a book and he paid me no mind, I guess. So then from Philadelphia to New Jersey, I had to catch the bus and they wasn't in trouble.	5:21
Rhonda Mawhood	And Mrs. Shute, how did you get through nursing school?	6:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, the fees as small during that time, and they gave us the books. We didn't have to pay for the book. I think the fees were less than $200.	6:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you work to earn money before going to nursing school also?	6:29
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I must have, worked in private homes and made a little money. I guess maybe it was like being a babysitter, it wasn't popular back then to be a babysitter.	6:34
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you work for White families or for Black families?	6:49
Lillian Jenkins Shute	For White families.	6:49
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you talk about your decision to go to nursing school with your father and your Stepmother?	6:57
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, I guess they didn't understand why I didn't want to go here in Charlotte, but I can see I wanted to get away. Never been away from home. They wasn't always [indistinct 00:07:21]. I stayed about a year and I got home sick, and I asked them if they would send me money so I could come home.	7:06
Lillian Jenkins Shute	They got in touch with my roommate and she told me things had been straightened out and they wouldn't send me money so I stayed, but I'm glad I stayed. But I guess I hadn't been away from home before. Something went wrong and all I had to do was go back home.	7:27
Rhonda Mawhood	But you stayed.	7:48
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I stayed.	7:48
Rhonda Mawhood	Then you said that you worked in public health?	7:52
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I was public health nurse for several years. After the children came, I worked at the hospital on the 11:00 to 7:00 shift.	7:56
Rhonda Mawhood	11:00 in the evening until 7:00 in the morning?	8:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, I retired from that night shift.	8:07
Rhonda Mawhood	What was it that I wanted to ask you? You've both been very involved in church life for a long time, and I'm wondering if you remember any particular conflicts that came up in church, how people handled conflict, how they worked out their disagreements.	8:20
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He can tell you that. He was a elder [indistinct 00:08:47].	8:44
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well, normally or naturally, there will be some difference of opinion at times in the Presbyterian church is governed by a body, the session of the church, in the Presbyterian church is the governing body. And they have a constitution to go by, see, and they try to follow that to the letter, see.	8:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	There are times that even in the governing body itself, there are differences of opinion but usually after possibly a prayerful session, they are able to get things together. But you talking about the church, I might tell this story. I don't know if Lila heard it before or not.	9:24
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	But one man who was somewhat of an outcast, he did a little of everything. He decided to go to church one Sunday. But before going to church, he said, "I'm going by see my buddy, who is the devil." The devil was his buddy.	9:52
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I've heard that one.	10:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	He didn't see the devil, and he was late getting to church. And just as he got there, the church was turning out and who was coming out of the church? The devil, and he said, "Man, what you doing in the church today?" He said, "Well, I was up in the choir this morning."	10:20
Rhonda Mawhood	[indistinct 00:10:44]	10:37
Lillian Jenkins Shute	One of your tales.	10:37
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I say that to say this, things happen in time, difference in the choir and different other things. But those things are usually resolved in time, patience and prayer, they're coming back.	10:58
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	But in addition to our church activities, I have for about 25 years was a member of the YMCA Board of Management, and I enjoyed that. Since our retirement, Lil and I have worked at the crisis ministry for a number of years, crisis ministry to—	11:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Clothes and the [indistinct 00:11:35]	11:34
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Clothes ministry, they would give out free clothes to the needy. We worked every week. We go get one day a week there?	11:34
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Three hours.	11:44
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Three hours one day a week. We did that until her sister got very sick several years ago, and we stopped.	11:45
Rhonda Mawhood	You needed the time to care for your sister.	11:56
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	How's that?	11:59
Rhonda Mawhood	You needed the time to care for your sister?	12:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	My sister, she died in 1990. We were up through 1989 there helping her.	12:01
Rhonda Mawhood	When was it that you were a member of the board of directors of the YMCA, Mr. Shute?	12:14
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh, I started, I guess I started in the '50s, I know that.	12:17
Lillian Jenkins Shute	When you were—	12:24
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I was on the board for about 25 years.	12:26
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Before we moved, [indistinct 00:12:31]	12:27
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	At least 25 years. Let me tell you, it's more than that. They had a small one across town and close to [indistinct 00:12:47] development, Brooklyn. We moved on the West Side and they have a nice one up the street.	12:33
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	But in addition to our services at the church and other things, now I'm the last one to shoot bail members, so it's my job to look after my sisters. I say both of them are over 90, and I look after them and then I go out when I'm feeling good and play a little golf.	12:54
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I've never been [indistinct 00:13:30]. I enjoy the grandchildren when they come around. I think we've been very of blessed. We're blessed.	13:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, I appreciate you talking to me.	13:41
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	How's that?	13:43
Rhonda Mawhood	I appreciate you talking to me today. I really do.	13:44
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Oh well, this has been a pleasure.	13:45
Rhonda Mawhood	Very interesting. I'm wondering if this photograph, has this been copied by the public library here in Charlotte?	13:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, it's—	13:55
Lillian Jenkins Shute	It's in one of those books.	13:55
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	It's in the downtown library.	13:58
Rhonda Mawhood	I see. I wanted to make sure of that, because it's a beautiful photograph and I hate to think that it might not have been copied. There's a book that the library put out called an African American Album.	14:02
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	It's in there.	14:16
Rhonda Mawhood	It's in there. I see, I see. It's a beautiful photograph.	14:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Did you see our wedding picture?	14:21
Lillian Jenkins Shute	See how small I was?	14:24
Rhonda Mawhood	It's wonderful. Yes, Mrs. Shute pointed that out. You look very happy that day. Mr. Shute looks very solemn and you look very happy.	14:26
Lillian Jenkins Shute	It was a long time.	14:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Beautiful dress, beautiful dress.	14:38
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I've gotten old and gray.	14:38
Rhonda Mawhood	We all do. Do you still have your wedding dress, Mrs. Shute?	14:48
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, we [indistinct 00:14:53].	14:50
Rhonda Mawhood	They do that.	14:55
Lillian Jenkins Shute	My daughter said she's saving hers for her daughter. I guess hers is made out of better material too. She has one daughter, said she was going to save her dress.	14:57
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you take a wedding trip after you were married?	15:10
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, didn't have much money. Afterwards, we went on several trips with the fraternity and other places but we weren't able to take a honeymoon.	15:13
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Boys asked me, when they were kids, "Where'd y'all go?"	15:15
Lillian Jenkins Shute	That's what our son asked us.	15:26
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	To him, I said I went back to work.	15:28
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He said, "What? No honeymoon?" We had several other trips after that.	15:39
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Since we've been out, we've had a number of trips. We've been to California to fraternal meeting and Denver, Colorado, and where'd we go? New Orleans.	15:44
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Louisville, Kentucky, Washington, DC.	15:56
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	This is the picture.	15:56
Lillian Jenkins Shute	There we are.	15:56
Rhonda Mawhood	Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful copy. Did the library copy your wedding photograph as well?	16:10
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No.	16:13
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He didn't take it.	16:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Really?	16:13
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He just took the one picture, but I saw some other pictures [indistinct 00:16:20]	16:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	This is a picture of my dad's class.	16:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, this is your father's class?	16:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Here's my dad right there.	16:16
Rhonda Mawhood	I see, 1894. I see, oh and I recognize your father here in the corner, very handsome man.	16:34
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Hmm?	16:40
Rhonda Mawhood	He was a very handsome man. We have this book at our center at Duke.	16:47
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You have?	16:55
Rhonda Mawhood	It's a very nice collection. I have to ask you, I'll try not to take too much more of your time, but I have to try to get some family history from the two of you. I'd like to do a form. Maybe I should do one form for the two of you. No, I should actually do a form for each of you if you don't mind. I'll try not to let it take too long.	16:55
Rhonda Mawhood	There are questions on it such as your date of birth, place of birth, mother's name, sisters and brothers names, things like that. Just so that people can do family trees or genealogies, get an idea of who you're related to. Is that all right with you to fill that out?	17:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, fill out.	17:33
Rhonda Mawhood	So maybe I'll start with you, Mrs. Shute.	17:38
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I tell you what, hold a minute. I may have that.	17:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh really?	17:43
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I may have that.	17:43
Lillian Jenkins Shute	That's on his side, not my side.	17:50
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	He's on my side.	17:51
Rhonda Mawhood	Well, while Mr. Shute looking for that, maybe I can ask you the questions. Your middle name, Mrs. Shute?	17:57
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Amanda.	18:03
Rhonda Mawhood	And your first name?	18:07
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Lillian.	18:09
Rhonda Mawhood	Lilia, how do you spell that please, ma'am?	18:10
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Hmm?	18:13
Rhonda Mawhood	How do you spell that please?	18:13
Lillian Jenkins Shute	L-I-L-L-I-A-N.	18:14
Rhonda Mawhood	L-I—and your maiden name? Is this your—	18:19
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Jenkins.	18:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Jenkins. It's J-E?	18:20
Lillian Jenkins Shute	J-E-N-K-I-N-S.	18:20
Rhonda Mawhood	When this tape is transcribed, when we type out everything, how would you like your name to appear on the transcript? Mrs. Lillian Shute or?	18:31
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I've been using Lillian Jenkins Shute.	18:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Lillian Jenkins Shute.	18:44
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I never liked Amanda.	18:46
Rhonda Mawhood	No?	18:48
Lillian Jenkins Shute	There are other Amandas around now.	18:52
Rhonda Mawhood	It's gotten to be a more popular name.	18:55
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:18:58], mm-hmm.	18:58
Rhonda Mawhood	Could you tell me your date of birth, Mrs. Shute?	19:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	January the 20th, 1913.	19:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you.	19:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I was 80 in January.	19:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, congratulations. Where were you born, Mrs. Shute?	19:11
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Charlotte, North Carolina.	19:14
Rhonda Mawhood	And your mother's name, Mrs. Shute?	19:31
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Her name was Lily, her maiden name is McNilly.	19:32
Rhonda Mawhood	How did she spell that last name, please?	19:39
Lillian Jenkins Shute	M-C-N-I-L-L-Y.	19:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. Do you know what year your mother was born?	19:51
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, my sister told me she thought that she finished school one year and she married the next and she was born the next. In a way, I was trying to figure it out. My sister was born in 1904, evidently she was—Then Scotia in 18—	19:56
Rhonda Mawhood	19.	20:15
Lillian Jenkins Shute	1902.	20:15
Rhonda Mawhood	'02.	20:15
Lillian Jenkins Shute	And I guess she married the next year, and she said she was born in 1904. That's as near as I can get it. I don't have any records.	20:15
Rhonda Mawhood	So she was born around 1885 or something like that?	20:29
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Maybe.	20:34
Rhonda Mawhood	If she finished Barber-Scotia, she would've been about 18 when she finished Barber-Scotia.	20:34
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I imagine so because back then it wasn't a four-year college, but I remember her telling her that she was born in 1904, my sister. So it must have been about 19 [indistinct 00:20:54].	20:44
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, and your mother died when you were small. You remember what year?	20:55
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I was three years old.	21:05
Rhonda Mawhood	You were three years old. Do you know where your mother was born, Mrs. Shute?	21:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, I don't.	21:11
Rhonda Mawhood	And your father's name?	21:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Charles Newton Jenkins.	21:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know what year your father was born?	21:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I think I'll try to look it up. I don't know.	22:03
Rhonda Mawhood	It's not—	22:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He died in 1934, so I'm trying to think. I don't know. This was in the 1800s.	22:03
Rhonda Mawhood	That's fine. Thank you. And do you know where he was born?	22:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, a place called Wellford, South Carolina, near Spartanburg.	22:03
Rhonda Mawhood	And your father was a Presbyterian minister, correct?	22:03
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, mm-hmm. He told us that his mother was slave. It seemed like I thought we met her one time, but I can't remember where. I thought he told us that she was a slave.	22:04
Rhonda Mawhood	She, I guess, was from South Carolina?	22:19
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes.	22:19
Rhonda Mawhood	Can you give me your children's name please, Mrs. Shute?	22:33
Lillian Jenkins Shute	The oldest is Mathew Shute Jr, and the second boy is Charles Thomas Shute.	22:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Charles Thomas?	22:50
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Mm-hmm. My daughter's named Valerie Lillian Harvey.	22:51
Rhonda Mawhood	And what year was Mathew born?	23:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	1942.	23:12
Rhonda Mawhood	And Charles?	23:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	1944.	23:15
Rhonda Mawhood	And Valerie?	23:18
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:23:19] 1950.	23:18
Rhonda Mawhood	1950, and you have 12 grandchildren?	23:18
Lillian Jenkins Shute	What did you say?	23:25
Rhonda Mawhood	You have 12 grandchildren?	23:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes.	23:28
Rhonda Mawhood	All right.	23:43
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:23:44] children's birthdate. [indistinct 00:23:46]	23:44
Rhonda Mawhood	When was the first place that you went to school, Mrs. Shute?	23:45
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Fairview Elementary School, that was near our home.	23:53
Rhonda Mawhood	And you went there till?	24:06
Lillian Jenkins Shute	To the Sycamore High School. We didn't have junior high back then. We just went from the elementary school to the high school.	24:07
Rhonda Mawhood	From there you went to Lincoln?	24:24
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, I was at home a year and then I went to Lincoln for nursing. Do you want the year?	24:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, please, ma'am. If you know.	24:35
Lillian Jenkins Shute	What did you say?	24:40
Rhonda Mawhood	If you can remember it, I would love to know.	24:40
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I entered in 1931 and finished in 1934. We made a three-year program.	24:40
Rhonda Mawhood	When you came out of nursing school, it was then that you worked as a public health nurse?	25:04
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes, for about five years.	25:12
Rhonda Mawhood	Five years, and that was in Charlotte?	25:20
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yes.	25:20
Rhonda Mawhood	And then what hospital was it that you worked at, ma'am?	25:23
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Good Samaritan Hospital.	25:27
Rhonda Mawhood	Good Samaritan.	25:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Later, it was changed to Charlotte Community, and I retired from Charlotte Community.	25:31
Rhonda Mawhood	And that was from the 1940s on?	25:50
Lillian Jenkins Shute	When I worked there, I started, well, I'm trying to think. I was only the chair, but when was, I guess it was 19—I guess it was in 1950 when I worked at the hospital during the 1950s. Because I went home, went to work [indistinct 00:26:17]. I was home with the children for a while so I think it was.	26:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, and let's see, what church are you currently a member of, Mrs. Shute?	26:41
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Memorial Presbyterian Church, and when we were married, I joined his church. I think he didn't join my church. He grew up in that church. He [indistinct 00:26:57].	26:44
Rhonda Mawhood	So which church was it that you grew up in, Mrs. Shute?	26:58
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I grew up in, it was [indistinct 00:27:05] Presbyterian Church. But they have a new church now. They named it for my father. He was first pastor.	27:04
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh really?	27:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	They build the church. I just thought redeveloping house. Father tell me we have a new church over there now and it is called [indistinct 00:27:28] Jenkins Presbyterian Church. I'm not a member of that. I just go some.	27:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Did you go to it when they built it? When they first opened it?	27:34
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, when they had open services.	27:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Are there organizations that you were a member of, Mrs. Shute?	27:51
Lillian Jenkins Shute	At the church?	27:55
Rhonda Mawhood	Or anywhere else.	27:56
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:28:02] I was a member of the women's organization with the church. I had served as a trustee, but now I'm [indistinct 00:28:18].	28:03
Rhonda Mawhood	You were a trustee?	28:19
Lillian Jenkins Shute	At the church, a trustee.	28:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you remember about when that was that you were a trustee?	28:27
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, [indistinct 00:28:33]. Well, that's been several years. That must have been in the 1970s, I think.	28:29
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. The last question that we have is an all purpose question. We ask if you have anything that you want me to put on the record, any hobbies you might have or if you have a favorite Bible verse or poem or something like that? Sometimes people want those to be included with their life history. It's optional.	28:42
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I like the 1st John, verse 16.	29:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Which is?	29:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:29:14] a blessing. Is that it?	29:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I didn't hear it, what's [indistinct 00:29:22]?	29:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I think it's John, verse 16.	29:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	What is it?	29:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Gospel of [indistinct 00:29:28].	29:05
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you, ma'am.	29:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I guess my memory isn't so good as I get older.	29:39
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh well, it's been very good this afternoon. It's helped me a lot. That's how people like me to learn about the past is to read and listen to people who remember it.	29:43
Rhonda Mawhood	All right now, Mr. Shute, do you have a middle name, sir?	29:59
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Mathew Atkins Shute.	30:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Atkins.	30:07
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Senior.	30:08
Rhonda Mawhood	When we transcribe this tape, is that how you would like your name to appear at the top of the page with the [indistinct 00:30:25] name, Mathew Atkins Shute Senior?	30:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Right.	30:25
Lillian Jenkins Shute	The only other organization I was in, my alumni group, it's Lincoln High School Alumni Association. I was able to travel with them a few times.	30:46
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Do they still meet?	30:57
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, they meet there for two years. We're going to Baltimore this year, [indistinct 00:31:04] be able to make it.	30:58
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	NAACP, and that was—	31:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Oh, we're a member NAACP.	31:02
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	When did you join the NAACP?	31:14
Lillian Jenkins Shute	It's been several years now. We pay every year, and I think it's been maybe about 10—	31:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Just renew your membership.	31:22
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Yeah, about 10 years, you think? It's just somebody at the church has been collecting. I think it's been about 10 years. [indistinct 00:31:31] used to collect it.	31:22
Rhonda Mawhood	And could you tell me your date of birth, please, Mr. Shute?	31:42
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	9/9/14.	31:43
Rhonda Mawhood	And were you born in Charlotte, sir?	31:43
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Born in Charlotte.	31:50
Rhonda Mawhood	And your mother's name, please, sir?	32:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Mother?	32:08
Rhonda Mawhood	Mm-hmm.	32:08
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Annie Foster Shute.	32:11
Rhonda Mawhood	And Foster was her maiden name?	32:18
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yes.	32:20
Rhonda Mawhood	Do you know the year your mother was born, Mr. Shute?	32:23
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No, I don't.	32:26
Rhonda Mawhood	And do you know where she was born?	32:28
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	She was born in Charlotte or nearby.	32:31
Rhonda Mawhood	And for her occupation, what should I write?	32:38
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	She was a teacher.	32:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Teacher. And your father's full name?	32:51
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Where was he born?	32:54
Rhonda Mawhood	Your father's, well, his full name first.	32:55
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Charles Henry Shute.	32:57
Rhonda Mawhood	Shute, and do you know what year he was born?	33:08
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I'm not sure.	33:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Was he born in Charlotte also?	33:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Born in Matthews, North Carolina, just down the road.	33:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Your children, i'm assuming, are Mrs. Shute's. Where was the first place that you went to school, Mr. Shute?	33:36
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	On Mattoon Street was a four-room frame building on Mattoon Street right down the street from [indistinct 00:34:00]	33:47
Lillian Jenkins Shute	What was the name of it?	33:56
Rhonda Mawhood	What was the—	34:02
Lillian Jenkins Shute	The name of it, she wants the name of it.	34:04
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I'm trying to think of the name of it.	34:05
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Biddleville School.	34:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Biddleville School, that's what it was.	34:05
Rhonda Mawhood	What was that one, I'm sorry?	34:09
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Biddleville School, Biddleville School.	34:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	No, he said another part time, mine was family.	34:09
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I was there for four years and then I went over to the Fairview School for two years.	34:24
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You had a lot of walking to do.	34:39
Rhonda Mawhood	And then you went—	34:41
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Sycamore.	34:41
Rhonda Mawhood	Sycamore.	34:41
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Sycamore High.	34:41
Rhonda Mawhood	And then to Greensboro A&T?	34:41
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	A&T State University.	34:41
Rhonda Mawhood	And what qualification was it that you received there, Mr. Shute?	35:07
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I majored in science and history.	35:13
Rhonda Mawhood	I see. Thank you.	35:15
Rhonda Mawhood	Now, you told me the name of a company that you worked for in quality control. But if you wouldn't mind spelling it for me, the textile company?	35:16
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Thompson-Burke Fibers, what it be? Oh yeah, Thompson-Burke Fibers.	35:43
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I want to show you something.	35:57
Rhonda Mawhood	Is Burke, B-U-R-K-E?	36:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Mm-hmm.	36:00
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, sir. Thank you.	36:00
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	This is what the president wrote for me when I got ready.	36:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	They didn't want to let him go.	36:00
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm sure not.	36:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	He stayed a long time.	36:00
Rhonda Mawhood	That's very nice. It's very nice.	36:00
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Thank you.	36:00
Rhonda Mawhood	That you were a very good employee to him, I'm sure. It's nice that he recognized it.	36:00
Lillian Jenkins Shute	They gave him a big party at the hotel.	36:00
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Retirement party.	36:00
Rhonda Mawhood	And you are a member of the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame? That's correct?	37:15
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Correct. It's A&T Hall of Fame, I believe that's what it's called.	37:19
Rhonda Mawhood	A&T.	37:23
Lillian Jenkins Shute	A&T.	37:23
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	No, you're fine. [indistinct 00:37:39], North Carolina State.	37:34
Rhonda Mawhood	North Carolina, wonderful.	37:49
Rhonda Mawhood	You were a member of the same church your whole life, Mr. Shute?	37:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yes.	38:05
Rhonda Mawhood	And organizations that you belong to. Which fraternity was it again, please? You showed me Bill Cosby, and you showed me—	38:10
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I just received that.	38:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh there we are. Oh my, 50 years.	38:21
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Mike Jordan's also a member of the—Michael Jordan's also a member.	38:31
Rhonda Mawhood	Really?	38:36
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah.	38:38
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Jesse Jackson too.	38:38
Rhonda Mawhood	Oh, is that Reverend Jackson's fraternity?	38:40
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Mm-hmm.	38:42
Rhonda Mawhood	Interesting. It is, thank you.	38:48
Lillian Jenkins Shute	[indistinct 00:38:49] you too, huh?	38:48
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Yeah, [indistinct 00:38:52].	38:48
Rhonda Mawhood	And let me see, so you're also a member of the NAACP, are there any other organizations besides your fraternity and the NAACP that you're a member of?	38:57
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I have been for 23 years, I've been the treasurer of my high school class. We meet on a monthly basis.	39:17
Lillian Jenkins Shute	What's the, Sycamore alumni.	39:32
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Sycamore. I'm also a member of the Queen City chapter of A&T Alumni Association.	39:38
Rhonda Mawhood	What year was it that you graduated from high school, Mr. Shute?	39:48
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	'32.	39:50
Rhonda Mawhood	'32. Thank you. You're a member of the Queen City chapter of A&T Alumni?	39:51
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	That's right.	40:14
Rhonda Mawhood	Like my last question to Mrs. Shute, are there any activities that your hobbies that you want me to put on here, or a favorite quote or a Bible verse, something like that?	40:27
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	My Heart is Playing God	40:36
Rhonda Mawhood	God, and is it?	40:36
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	And my quote would be, I quote from the Bible, "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found, call He upon Him while He is near."	40:42
Rhonda Mawhood	I have, "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found," and what is the second half? I'm sorry.	41:11
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	"Call He upon Him while He is near."	41:11
Rhonda Mawhood	Thank you. All right. There's just one more thing, which is that in order for people to use this tape of this interview for teachers and researchers and students to use this tape that we've just made, we have to have your permission for that, because no one can use this tape unless you say that it's all right.	41:35
Rhonda Mawhood	The original of this tape will go into the archives at Perkins Library at Duke University in Durham. A copy of it will come back to the Charlotte area. We're not sure where the copies are going to go yet. They might go to the public library, they might go to Johnson C. Smith University. That hasn't been worked out yet.	41:57
Rhonda Mawhood	But we know that one copy of the tapes and the transcripts will come back to this area, which means that researchers and students are going to be going to this collection in a couple of years, because it'll take a while to get it all together in Charlotte and in Durham to use these interviews to learn about history.	42:16
Rhonda Mawhood	Now, in order for your tape to be included in the collection, I would have to get your signature on a permission form. So I'll show that to you. There are two forms. One that I really hope you'll sign, it just states that there's open access, that anyone can use the collection in view of its scholarly value, its importance that anyone can use it.	42:35
Rhonda Mawhood	If you would prefer to put a restriction on it, usually the restriction people put is that someone who wanted to use the interview would have to get their permission to quote you, for example. Then you would sign this form, said interview agreement with restrictions. We would write the restriction here, and then there's one for each of you. I have to get separate signatures for each of you.	43:03
Rhonda Mawhood	Then I would sign beside because my voice is on the tape as well. So the forms are identical except that one has restrictions and the other one doesn't, so I'll give that to you and you can take some time to look at it together.	43:25
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, if we could see it, it would be to go to the library?	43:37
Rhonda Mawhood	I'm sorry?	43:39
Lillian Jenkins Shute	If we wanted to see it, we'd have to go to the library?	43:39
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes. But it would be there, and we're hoping that they'll be there for a 100 years. [indistinct 00:43:57].	43:49
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Well.	44:09
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	I don't know. I don't know of any reason why I would stick to here.	44:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Well, that's all right.	44:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Is that all right with both of you?	44:10
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	We sign this one?	44:10
Lillian Jenkins Shute	We sign both of them?	44:10
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, sir. I would ask you to sign one, Mr. Shute, and you, Mrs. Shute, to sign the other. If you can use my clipboard here, if you could sign beside the X, Mrs. Shute? And same thing for you, sir. Thank you.	44:20
Lillian Jenkins Shute	I sign top line?	44:39
Rhonda Mawhood	If you sign beside the X, thank you, and I'll print your name on the top line.	44:46
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Have you been made many contacts since you've been?	45:13
Rhonda Mawhood	Made quite a few, yes. Thank you, Mrs. Shute. You'll have to excuse me, ma'am.	45:16
Rhonda Mawhood	We have a list of about a 100 people who we'd really like to speak to, but not everyone is available. People are ill or they're out of town. We're only here for two weeks. We're leaving on the 18th.	45:22
Lillian Jenkins Shute	There's a group of you here.	45:37
Rhonda Mawhood	Yes, ma'am. There are seven of us on the team working every day talking to people. So I guess I've spoken to, I think this is the 5th interview I've done in Charlotte. And a couple of them have been with two people like yourselves. Then I have about, oh, 15 or 20 more to do before we leave Charlotte.	45:39
Lillian Jenkins Shute	You're going where after you leave Charlotte?	46:03
Rhonda Mawhood	We're going to Enfield.	46:05
Mathew Atkins Shute Sr.	Enfield.	46:06
Rhonda Mawhood	We're going to Enfield, and then after that we're going to Wilmington.	46:09
Lillian Jenkins Shute	Wilmington.	46:13
Rhonda Mawhood	And from there, we're going to New Bern, so I'm excited about it because—	46:15

Item Info

Title:

Mathew Shute, Sr. (primary interviewee) and Amanda Shute interview recording, 1993 June 08

Date:

June 8, 1993

Creator:

Contributor:

Mawhood, Rhonda Lyn

Description:

Name: Mathew, Atkins Shute, Sr.; Date of birth: 1914-09-19; Place of birth: Charlotte, NC; Occupation: business; managerial; Residence: Charlotte, NC. Name: Amanda Lillian Shute; Date of birth: 1914-09-19; Place of birth: Charlotte, NC; Occupation: nursing; health services; Residence: Charlotte, NC
Informant ID: 63; Informant ID: 64; Interviewed by: Rhonda Mawhood.

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Location:

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 273
357aa2e7-2fd0-4cc9-867d-def0aa8b3809
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1624f5ef-4fd8-4493-9d18-4b1c63e204de

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Mathew Shute, Sr. (primary interviewee) and Amanda Shute interview recording, 1993 June 08

Transcript

Item Info

1. Mathew Shute Sr., and Amanda Shute administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Mathew Shute, Sr. (primary interviewee) and Amanda Shute interview recording, 1993 June 08

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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